How Has Retirement Changed You?

[Fallible]

All the good threads on retirement got me thinking about yet another aspect of it: how have we changed in retirement? Or haven't we? When we retire, we end something like 50 or 60 years of school and careers that pretty much dictated our lives, in ways both good and bad. In retirement (and hopefully in good health physically and financially), we're "free to be me." But what has that meant for you? Have you discovered a "new you"? A new talent or skill buried in all those years of routines and obligations? Are you an adventurer when you thought you were a homebody? A teacher when you thought you'd never have enough patience for students? A writer when you thought you were poor with words, or an artist when you were certain you could never learn to draw? An idea person when you never thought you had an original thought in your head? Or anything else when you thought of yourself only as whatever it was you were doing all those years?

[Stonebr]

All of the above.

I'd also add spiritual, when I thought I couldn't care less.

[chaz]

I have not changed except for getting older, can not stop the aging. Sorry.

[scrabbler1]

Fallible, the discoveries you refer to took place with me when switched to working part-time, 7 years before I fully retired in 2008. Working part-time gave me midday time to pursue some volunteer work at area schools, while not having to work enabled me to go out on weekday evenings because I wasn't so work out from work (which also got me home too late).

But working even part-time became a nuisance to try to schedule my various activities so the only way out was to stop working altogether. Once all the pieces of my early retirement puzzle fell into place, I quit my job (back in 2008) and never looked back.

If you want to read more about early retirement, I can suggest this forum: http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/

[Sheepdog]

I haven't changed, have I? I don't think I have, but then again...... Maybe I "cuss" less.....Maybe I sleep more.....Maybe I am more tolerant.....Maybe I am more at peace without work pressures....Maybe I stopped regretting about what could have been and instead, became more appreciative and grateful for the life I lived....Maybe I appreciate living longer than I thought I would and enjoying it more.....Maybe I am happier than I ever have been.
Maybe retirement did change me.

[VictoriaF]

Do people procrastinate more or less in retirement than during their working years? I frequently find myself procrastinating, and I am wondering if retirement may exacerbate this tendency. On the other hand, abundant time and reduced stress may facilitate decision making and execution.

Victoria

[Mel Lindauer]

Do people procrastinate more or less in retirement than during their working years? I frequently find myself procrastinating, and I am wondering if retirement may exacerbate this tendency. On the other hand, abundant time and reduced stress may facilitate decision making and execution.

Victoria

The nice thing about retirement, Victoria, is that there's time to procstinate and still have plenty of time left over to do the things you want to do.

[Bustoff]

Do people procrastinate more or less in retirement than during their working years? I frequently find myself procrastinating, and I am wondering if retirement may exacerbate this tendency. On the other hand, abundant time and reduced stress may facilitate decision making and execution.
Victoria

When I was working, the quality of my work was often impacted by all sorts of time constraints and interruptions.
Once I retired, I had to keep reminding myself that I didn't have to rush anymore. As a result, I can take my sweet ass time on whatever I'm doing. But, I don't procrastinate because the projects become more enjoyable when there's no rush.

BTY, there's another Boglehead retirement thread you can check out: http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=110196&newpost=1604687#p1602305

[bUU]

I have this, probably delusional, image of the first years of retirement with days expended toward recovering health - losing 50 pounds; exercising and healthy eating as a full-time job. Has anyone here gone from an obese worker to fit retiree?

[bengal22]

Do people procrastinate more or less in retirement than during their working years? I frequently find myself procrastinating, and I am wondering if retirement may exacerbate this tendency. On the other hand, abundant time and reduced stress may facilitate decision making and execution.

Victoria

Not sure. hmmm. can I get back to you on that later?

[dickenjb]

I have this, probably delusional, image of the first years of retirement with days expended toward recovering health - losing 50 pounds; exercising and healthy eating as a full-time job. Has anyone here gone from an obese worker to fit retiree?

I have lost 25 pounds and am off 2 meds. Blood pressure and prilosec.

It is easier to find the time for exercise. My physician said he has many patients who go hypotensive on him after retiring from Megacorp type jobs and he has to take them off their BP meds.

Read "Younger Next Year". I did in the months leading up to my retirement date. It can be done, what you are dreaming of.

[bUU]

Thanks... Wishlisted that book

[reggiesimpson]

Great post Fallible. I have similar views to the above posters. For me personally i have had no revelations other than the joy of achieving a lifelong dream of a comfortable retirement. Its a source of daily pleasure that i never had prior.
I dont stress over the need for new accomplishments or being "useful". After a lifetime of hard work and all the stresses of career and raising a family i treasure owning my own time and doing with it whatever i please. Having the financial wherewithall tops the icing on the cake. Instead of saving travel articles i can now put them into practice. I have shelves of books i have only reviewed and i can now read them.
Fundamentally its about time and the freedom to do with it as i please.

[reggiesimpson]

I have this, probably delusional, image of the first years of retirement with days expended toward recovering health - losing 50 pounds; exercising and healthy eating as a full-time job. Has anyone here gone from an obese worker to fit retiree?

I have lost 25 pounds and am off 2 meds. Blood pressure and prilosec.

It is easier to find the time for exercise. My physician said he has many patients who go hypotensive on him after retiring from Megacorp type jobs and he has to take them off their BP meds.

Read "Younger Next Year". I did in the months leading up to my retirement date. It can be done, what you are dreaming of.

Younger Next Year............an excellent choice. Over the years i have gifted it many times.

[Levett]

What may seem like procrastination, Victoria, may be far more beneficial than some realize.

I highly recommend Frank Partnoy's book, Wait. http://www.amazon.com/Wait-Science-Delay-Frank-Partnoy/dp/1610390040

I also see retirement (a word I embrace) as an opportunity for enhanced mindfulness.

Lev

[reggiesimpson]

Do people procrastinate more or less in retirement than during their working years? I frequently find myself procrastinating, and I am wondering if retirement may exacerbate this tendency. On the other hand, abundant time and reduced stress may facilitate decision making and execution.

Victoria

The nice thing about retirement, Victoria, is that there's time to procstinate and still have plenty of time left over to do the things you want to do.

Exactly.

[bUU]

I wonder if a certain friends of mine is practicing some constructive form of "procrastination". His license plate reads "I GO SLO".

[Fallible]

Do people procrastinate more or less in retirement than during their working years? I frequently find myself procrastinating, and I am wondering if retirement may exacerbate this tendency. On the other hand, abundant time and reduced stress may facilitate decision making and execution.

Victoria

The nice thing about retirement, Victoria, is that there's time to procstinate and still have plenty of time left over to do the things you want to do.

I still procrastinate in retirement but I don't know if it's worse because I'm retired. It does seem a different kind, though. I realize now that, when I was working, it wasn’t always procrastination but a tired brain from lack of sleep or various kinds of stress. In retirement, my procrastination is the real thing but, as Mel said, there’s more time to procrastinate and still do what you love doing.

[EternalOptimist]

Haven't really found a 'new me' guess I am enjoying the old me. Tennis is a passion and a big part of what I do. Relaxing, helping my family and generally letting the day come to me. After 2 years, I'm doing well. Got my wife talking about retiring...she's 61. Cheers

[scrabbler1]

Do people procrastinate more or less in retirement than during their working years? I frequently find myself procrastinating, and I am wondering if retirement may exacerbate this tendency. On the other hand, abundant time and reduced stress may facilitate decision making and execution.

Victoria

Not sure.......I'll get back to you tomorrow about that!

[Fallible]

Haven't really found a 'new me' guess I am enjoying the old me. Tennis is a passion and a big part of what I do. Relaxing, helping my family and generally letting the day come to me. After 2 years, I'm doing well. Got my wife talking about retiring...she's 61. Cheers

This seems to be what many of the posters here have experienced: no great changes, just enjoying themselves in their own individual ways, letting the days come to them and seeing where that takes them, being themselves and being happy.

[NAVigator]

I prefer to think of retirement as time to develop myself more fully. No fundamental changes, just refining the areas that have been there. For now that means more depth, but it might mean adding breadth as I continue to grow and explore.

How would you describe yourself? I would like to be considered a student.

Jerry

[Fallible]

I prefer to think of retirement as time to develop myself more fully. No fundamental changes, just refining the areas that have been there. For now that means more depth, but it might mean adding breadth as I continue to grow and explore.

How would you describe yourself? I would like to be considered a student.

Jerry

Somebody else also mentioned 'student' on another retirement thread. What does that mean?

[NAVigator]

I like this definition of student; "any person who studies, investigates, or examines thoughtfully".

Jerry

[Fallible]

I like this definition of student; "any person who studies, investigates, or examines thoughtfully".

Jerry

I wondered how it tied in with retirement, but that is good, a student in the best sense of the word. To answer your question, how would I describe myself in retirement, the most meaningful is free. I feel like most of the posters here and on the other retirement threads: I haven't been basically or greatly changed in retirement, but I have been set free to dwell on things I love and develop new interests, similar I think to the depth and breadth you mentioned. I feel very lucky to experience this freedom.

[VictoriaF]

I prefer to think of retirement as time to develop myself more fully. No fundamental changes, just refining the areas that have been there. For now that means more depth, but it might mean adding breadth as I continue to grow and explore.

How would you describe yourself? I would like to be considered a student.

Jerry

Somebody else also mentioned 'student' on another retirement thread. What does that mean?

I mentioned 'student' in this thread. Right now I am in a formal degree program, but even after the graduation I will be taking Coursera and edX courses, and engaging in self-directed studies.

I wrote 'student' in response to the suggestion of 'consultant.' While consulting is a legitimate occupation or activity when one's services and opinions are sought, it's tedious when it's forced on others. Studenting is more versatile and humble, and we all are students before we become consultants.

Victoria

[Fallible]

...
I mentioned 'student' in this thread. Right now I am in a formal degree program, but even after the graduation I will be taking Coursera and edX courses, and engaging in self-directed studies.

I wrote 'student' in response to the suggestion of 'consultant.' While consulting is a legitimate occupation or activity when one's services and opinions are sought, it's tedious when it's forced on others. Studenting is more versatile and humble, and we all are students before we become consultants.

Victoria

Thanks. That thread was so large I forgot who said what, i.e., my "remembering self" (System 2, Kahneman?) misremembering. Even beyond the consultant ref, we are all students, lifelong learners, with the deeply curious and brilliant minds even and ever more so. When I was in ninth grade (warning: it's my flawed remembering self again), the school superintendent gave a speech in which he said "We never stop learning." My first thought was classroom learning and I was dismayed since I was not a great fan of it nor a great student. But as he went on, I realized that he meant learning outside the required classroom, continuing to learn on our own whether in a classroom setting or sitting beneath a shade tree reading what we wanted to read. I remember (uh, oh...) thinking how right he was, although to this day I wonder how, at age 13 or 14, I could've been so sure of that. Anyway, thanks again for the nice clarification.

[VictoriaF]

my "remembering self" (System 2, Kahneman?) misremembering.

Hi Fallible,

This brings up another question to retirees. Neuroscientists have established a correlation between the quality of one's sleep and the memory. Both decline with age, but retirement provides opportunities to sleep in and to have naps. Do retirees take advantage of these opportunities? Has extra sleep improved the memory?

Victoria

[Martindo]

How have I changed in 8 years of retirement? Basically, I'm on the same page as many previous posters; I spend more time doing what I like and have always done.

During my working life I was an avid jazz musician, an amateur, but playing in public some. When I retired, at 58, I really stepped up my work on music. As a result I've gotten a lot better. But I also realize that at 66 I'm not going to make it into the "local professional" level. This isn't so much because of my playing level, but because it is hard to break into the scene when you're approaching 70. Often people give encouragement with the "You're never too old," but I think as you get older you begin to realize that some things are not going to happen. So that's something I learned in retirement, and it's OK.

[Fallible]

my "remembering self" (System 2, Kahneman?) misremembering.

Hi Fallible,

This brings up another question to retirees. Neuroscientists have established a correlation between the quality of one's sleep and the memory. Both decline with age, but retirement provides opportunities to sleep in and to have naps. Do retirees take advantage of these opportunities? Has extra sleep improved the memory?

Victoria

Hi Victoria,

If the forum can bear one more right now, this could be another good retirement topic since memory is an aging concern. As for me, I honestly am not sure more regular sleep patterns in retirement have improved my memory, although I’m more mentally alert overall and have more physical energy after a good night’s sleep, 7-8 hours. I haven’t been concerned (yet) about memory problems or noticed any changes, but a recent online article in Nature Neuroscience about natural brain changes affecting sleep quality did concern me. Here’s the NYT article on it (though you may have seen it):
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/28/healt ... .html?_r=0

Fallible

[Hexdump]

I have this, probably delusional, image of the first years of retirement with days expended toward recovering health - losing 50 pounds; exercising and healthy eating as a full-time job. Has anyone here gone from an obese worker to fit retiree?

Exactly the opposite. I was in better shape when I was working. Now I munch all day long and it shows.

Also, whenever someone asks me what do I do with all my free time I answer "Whatever I want".

So far I have done:
1) Adult Ed for conversational Spanish.
2) Keyboard playing
3) Calligraphy
4) Drawing
5) Wood working.

I have gotten moderately proficient with some and not so proficient with others. As always it boils down to practice, practice, and more practice. That's when it starts to feel like work and I set it aside for a bit. When I start to pressure myself to get-er done, then the fun disappears so I look around for something else to try.

[Fallible]

...

Also, whenever someone asks me what do I do with all my free time I answer "Whatever I want".

So far I have done:
1) Adult Ed for conversational Spanish.
2) Keyboard playing
3) Calligraphy
4) Drawing
5) Wood working.

I have gotten moderately proficient with some and not so proficient with others. As always it boils down to practice, practice, and more practice. That's when it starts to feel like work and I set it aside for a bit. When I start to pressure myself to get-er done, then the fun disappears so I look around for something else to try.

Interesting about feeling the "work." A surprise for me in retirement was that I've worked just as hard, if not harder, on a new hobby. That's partly because I have more time, but mainly because I love the work, or at least most parts of it. But I think you're smart to quit when the work is not fun. That's what retirement is all about.

[VictoriaF]

I haven’t been concerned (yet) about memory problems or noticed any changes, but a recent online article in Nature Neuroscience about natural brain changes affecting sleep quality did concern me. Here’s the NYT article on it (though you may have seen it):
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/28/healt ... .html?_r=0

Fallible

Hi Fallible,

Thank you for the link. I've seen some comments about this research, but the New York Times' article is more comprehensive. I don't agree with everything there, for example:

Doctors cannot reverse structural changes that occur with age any more than they can turn back time.

We don't know what can and cannot be reversed. The brain plasticity research has overturned previous notions of the brain deterioration. Perhaps, age-related atrophy of the medial prefrontal cortex could be slowed, stopped or even reversed.

Victoria

[SGM]

Thomas Jefferson insisted students in his University be called 1st years....4th years, not freshmen...seniors. It is still that way today at UVa. Ostensibly, the reason for this insistence on Jefferson's part is that you never stop learning.

[VictoriaF]

Thomas Jefferson insisted students in his University be called 1st years....4th years, not freshmen...seniors. It is still that way today at UVa. Ostensibly, the reason for this insistence on Jefferson's part is that you never stop learning.

But neither you start learning when you enter a university,

Victoria

[Fallible]

I haven’t been concerned (yet) about memory problems or noticed any changes, but a recent online article in Nature Neuroscience about natural brain changes affecting sleep quality did concern me. Here’s the NYT article on it (though you may have seen it):
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/28/healt ... .html?_r=0

Fallible

Hi Fallible,

Thank you for the link. I've seen some comments about this research, but the New York Times' article is more comprehensive. I don't agree with everything there, for example:

Doctors cannot reverse structural changes that occur with age any more than they can turn back time.

We don't know what can and cannot be reversed. The brain plasticity research has overturned previous notions of the brain deterioration. Perhaps, age-related atrophy of the medial prefrontal cortex could be slowed, stopped or even reversed.

Victoria

Hi Victoria,

I think you may have caught an important weakness in the article, though not necessarily in the research. As you know, I'm very interested in but not as knowledgeable as you about the brain, so looking at the article from a journalist's point of view, I see two concerns with the statement you pointed out, "Doctors cannot reverse structural changes that occur with age any more than they can turn back time.": One, the reference to turning back time at least implies that doctors can never reverse the structure (although can we even say that about turning back time???); two, no source for the statement is given and if you're going to say 'never' about anything, you'd better be quoting the most knowledgeable source you can find (here I'd try for Eric Kandel) and even then I bet a credible source would begin with something like, "Based on what we now know..."

Good catch and maybe now I'll worry a little less about that "natural" change.

Fallible

[VictoriaF]

I see two concerns with the statement you pointed out, "Doctors cannot reverse structural changes that occur with age any more than they can turn back time.": One, the reference to turning back time at least implies that doctors can never reverse the structure (although can we even say that about turning back time???); two, no source for the statement is given and if you're going to say 'never' about anything, you'd better be quoting the most knowledgeable source you can find (here I'd try for Eric Kandel) and even then I bet a credible source would begin with something like, "Based on what we now know..."

Good catch and maybe now I'll worry a little less about that "natural" change.

Fallible

Turning back time may, in fact, be impossible, but going back in time is still a hope . In comparison, rebuilding the brain structure is much easier. All we have to do is implant a 3D printer inside the brain .

A general problem with statements that include never is that it's impossible to prove absence. As Nassim Taleb vividly points out, a single case of the contrary evidence overturns centuries of never.

Victoria

[Steelersfan]

Read "Younger Next Year". I did in the months leading up to my retirement date. It can be done, what you are dreaming of.

+1 for "Younger Next year".

I read it a few years into retirement and have had a better motivation to life a healthier, more physically active life.

[Fallible]

...
Turning back time may, in fact, be impossible ...
...

You mean you didn't see Superman and how he turned back time to save Lois?! The impossible must first be imagined, visualized (think Einstein).

As for Taleb, I'm now 48 of 142 on the library wait list for Antifragile.

[cheese_breath]

Other than being older and less stressed I don't think I've changed much. Now I only report to Boss Wife, and she's a lot easier to negotiate with when it comes to relaxing project schedules.

[gd]

I do everyday things more leisurely. Most notably, I used to be a somewhat aggressive driver, now I go to great lengths to avoid or ignore them. I seem to have more awareness of my environment, and possibly more generous, but at the same time I tend to suffer fools less willingly. I've become less receptive to uncertain situations, particularly adventurous travel, unfortunately. I've discovered that most of the quirks I thought I'd work through or outgrow were apparently part of my nature. My parent once commented that when you get old, you're just the same as before, just more so. Seems accurate so far.

[Fallible]

... I've discovered that most of the quirks I thought I'd work through or outgrow were apparently part of my nature. ...

This was basically what I've wondered about retirement - if we do change in retirement, is it fundamental or more superficial; e.g., could a Type A personality become more Type B in a less stressful lifestyle, or are the types set in stone (our natures)? I don't know.

[VictoriaF]

On the topic of sleep, Science Friday had a 1-hour program today Science of slumber: How sleep affects your memory.

Victoria

[Fallible]

On the topic of sleep, Science Friday had a 1-hour program today Science of slumber: How sleep affects your memory.

Victoria

Thanks! I listened to it all and was surprised at the many different kinds of sleep with each affecting the memory differently, not to mention the many different kinds of sleep disturbances. Even napping differs from nocturnal sleep. Interesting that there was some disagreement, if I heard it right, about the value of naps. When working, catnaps while flying or on a long shuttle/cab rides worked for me and in retirement longer naps can help if I don't get enough of the nocturnal kind. Did you listen to it? What did you think.

[VictoriaF]

Did you listen to it? What did you think.

I think sleep is one of the major perquisites of retirement .

I agree with you that the science of sleep is getting ever more complex. I first encountered sleep research fifteen years ago in a lecture by a Stanford professor Dr. William Dement. But even after all these years, many aspects of sleep remain mysterious.

In the program, they provided an interesting contrast between a nap and nocturnal sleep. While a nap is a poor substitute for a good night sleep, a two-hour nap enforces memory better than a six-hour night sleep. Naps are good for moving specific, detailed information from the short-term memory into longer-memory storage; nightly sleep, on the other hand, is essential for the conceptual memory consolidation.

Another interesting discussion was about meditation not substituting for sleep. Supposedly, the reason for sleep is to turn off the consciousness so that the unconscious would be able to do its work.

Victoria

[Browser]

I've come to understand that retirement is a time when one's true underlying character is discovered. When our lives are driven by external obligations, it's harder to know who we really are. I have friends in retirement who have studied and gotten new degrees, developed new skills, taught and mentored others, taken on civic and social responsibilities and so forth. I can see that their occupational achievements were really driven from within by their inner character, and not the desire to make money, prove themselves to others, achieve status, etc. I regret saying this, but - so far at least - I'm not all that pleased with what retirement has revealed to me.