Should I move from upstate NY to Los Angeles, CA?

[bogleraw]

Hello,

I've found plenty of sage advice here on getting our personal finances in order and as of November, we've been well on our way as we started maxing out both 401k's, Roth IRAs and HSA's. Today, I'm asking for more advice on whether I should consider moving out of upstate NY to the Los Angeles area.

I've been working in the Albany area as a Research Scientist since graduating with my PhD in 2010 and purchased a house in August 2011. My wife and I are both 29 and we've been planning to start trying for kids this year. My parents live within a few hours driving distance, which I see as a huge advantage to have once our family expands. Our salaries are currently $136k ($103k for me + $33k for her). Over the past few months, I've not been too happy with the day-to-day things I work on at my job and the thought of doing something else has seemed appealing.

I was recently given a verbal offer to join NASA's Jet Propulsion Lab (JPL) in Pasadena, CA, but no specifics yet on salary/benefits etc. This would have been a dream opportunity for me when I joined the workforce 2 years ago. It still sounds like a fantastic opportunity, but I'm struggling with the thought of taking a big loss on the house (closing costs + Realtor fees after owning the home for just 1.5 years), displacing us to a place where we have no family nearby and also losing my wife's salary in the process. I'm sure she'd eventually find a job in the LA area.

I'm looking for some advice on the following questions:
1) What salary should I consider to monetarily justify this move?
2) Funding for JPL's projects is strongly dependent on Congress' whims and this could potentially affect my job stability. On the other hand, I could continue working at a job I am dissatisfied with while providing my (growing) family with a nice, stable home and surrounding environment. At my age (29), is job satisfaction more important than putting down roots somewhere? I suppose I could look into an opportunity at JPL again in a few years after we've had a kid, but it seems so far away.
3) What other factors would you consider in making such a move?

I greatly appreciate your time and advice.

Cheers,
Bogleraw

[LadyGeek]

Hold on a second, I'm getting a lot of red flags here. What is wrong with your current job that caused you to look elsewhere? Working for NASA is not all its cracked up to be. My mega employer builds all kinds of cool stuff. How do I know? It's highlighted by the publicity pictures on the company calendar. I'll never get close to that stuff, ever, despite working there.

You're only 2 years out of school. The first thing you should do is have a talk with your boss. Your boss can open up a world of opportunities for you, but it's key on doing a good job with your existing work.

If you've already gone through that phase, then do something more interesting outside of work. How about volunteering your time with a worthy organization? That sort of thing.

You're going to disrupt your entire (and future family's) life for something that you've always wanted to do, but you haven't listed the right reasons and the future is far from certain.

[umfundi]

From my day job:

I had the privilege to be at a Siemens event last month where Doug McCuistion of JPL / NASA was a keynote speaker. Siemens has made a wonderful video of his presentation on Curiosity, the latest Mars mission and rover.

You can see it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfpgb5qVIec

Please take an hour to watch this. (The video is 48 minutes.) Show it to a kid. I think it could change their life.

How could anyone not want to work at JPL? Sandia Alberquerque is a very close second.

Keith

[livesoft]

I would move. I think my parents would follow me to Southern California if I moved there. But at least Albany is not Buffalo.

[steve roy]

I'm a third generation Californian and lived in L.A. A long time. There are good and bad things about the place, but none of them mean much compared to the main question:

Is this a job you really want? If it is, don't overthink the deal! Just go for it. You'll find out in the course of time if it was the right decision or not.

[sometimesinvestor]

Cost of living is much lower in Albany so to keep an equivalent lifestyle you will need a big raise. I do agree with Lady Geek that speaking to your boss about your unhappiness is appropriate. Its not very satifying to be unhappy with your job but maybe something can be done about that to make it better,

[killjoy2012]

I think you first need to decide what's the higher priority... work or family?

If work, then yes, I would strongly consider making the move. I work in IT & almost made a move from a major city in the Midwest to San Francisco/San Jose in 2009... and based on my research at the time, I figured I needed to make twice the salary in order to even come close to maintaining the same lifestyle (and that was very unlikely to happen). I think most people in CA will tell you that while they do use the USD for currency, it's almost a different type of dollar. Salaries are going to be significantly higher out there for the same position... but not 2x... as is the cost of living, taxes, etc. If you could land the JPL job @ $200k, you'd probably be doing OK... but you'd also be likely renting an apartment vs. buying a house. There are way to live a little cheaper out there, esp if you're willing to spend hours commuting...

If family is more important, then no - I'd stay put. You're likely to be able to afford a better living in the Midwest... and having your parents local is a huge benefit once you have kids! Not to mention the financial hit you're going to take on selling, or renting out the house.

[LadyGeek]

Consider that you are leaving a bad job / good family environment to a good job / bad family environment. And then the job changes so that you don't like it anymore. Try to work things out and not do the move.

[zebrafish]

Pasadena/LA cost of living is extremely high
Commuting to Pasadena isn't easy
100k salary in LA doesn't go that far
It better be a dream job or an important stepping stone

[SurfCityBill]

One question I would ask is whether you or your wife have ever been to Los Angeles? If you're basing your perceptions on what you see on the Rose Parade or a one week vacation then you may be disappointed. Personally, I moved from upstate NY to LA years ago "site unseen" and never regretted it. Many of my east coast friends have relocated only to find that they miss the seasons and life style of the east coast. If you're sure LA is for you then I'd consider a move. If not, then I'd stop considering it. In my case, if someone offered me a similar position to what I'm doing now at double what I'm making but I'd have to move to the midwest, I would decline. Nothing against the midwest, I just have no desire to live there.

Ask yourself, is the current job situation fundamentally permanent? Or will the scope of what you're doing evolve as the projects change, etc? Could this just be a period where it's not so much fun or has it been the same since day one? What are the other options for someone with your skills in Albany? Commuting to NYC or an area that has a need for your skills? That could be a problem from a time/distance standpoint affecting your life style. With your skills even if the JPL did not work out, the LA area offers enough opportunity that you would probably find something else.

Yes, you may take a bath on the house, but how about seeing if your parents could manage it as a rental for you or hire a service to do that. I doubt you'll buy right away out here (although I'd recommend it - it appears as if housing is poised to appreciate really well out here in 2013 even more than 2012). Housing in the Pasadena area would be $500k+ for something very very modest. $500k being a rough median for Pasadena.

Speaking of parents , yours "live within a few hours distance" of you. That's not exactly so close that you'd see them a few times a week to help out unless they're going to stay in the extra bedroom.

I can't tell you what would be a sensible upgrade salary wise for you. The cost of housing is much higher, but property taxes are better here than in NY. A combined income of $136k would put you in a pretty good position. Many Angelenos don't make that kind of money. Maybe your wife wouldn't have to work.
Childcare in LA might not make it worth her while unless she expected her income to increase quite a bit.

Personally, if you're thinking of a move, I do it before you had kids. Trying to relocate with infants/toddlers etc is challenging because it takes one person (your wife) out of play to help / assist / etc with the move. And if you decided it was a big mistake you can easily head back east.

Good luck whatever you decide.

[tainted-meat]

There is no place in the U.S. that is quite like Coastal CA. I'd go for it!

[gkaplan]

There is no place in the U.S. that is quite like Coastal CA. I'd go for it!

Pasadena is a nice city, with a great library, at least it was great when I worked there as a contract librarian some twenty years ago. It is not "coastal," however. You could, however, live on the coast, say Ventura, and take the Metrolink to work. Metrolink does not stop at Pasadena, as far as I can remember, but it does stop in Glendale.

As for the commute, JPL and Cal Tech are two pretty big organizations, so I imagine you could get in a van pool that meets your needs and not have to drive.

[hicabob]

Having lived both places I think CA is way nicer than upstate NY. They are both ridiculously high tax states so that's about even. CA has higher house prices but that is theoretically an investment and they are not currently near the historical top. If JPL rings your bell and the family is ok with it go for it. Relative to Albany ... no contest.

[blevine]

Personal decision, one that must have most significant input from your wife.

I live in downstate NY and travel upstate periodically.
Can't see ever living there. Have traveled to CA many times and love it.

JPL is a rare opportunity.

There are some advantages to living in a less costly/congested area
when raising a family, and upstate NY better fits the bill.

As a single person, there would be nothing much to think about,
would go to JPL and CA, but married with kids makes this a horse race.
You need to consider stability of the job you have not just of the one you seek,
and potential career paths of each, both very hard to predict, no matter what
your current and potential supervisor might tell you.

[fmhealth]

I'd go for it. What's the worst that could happen? You could really dislike the CA lifestyle & hate your new job. So, you move back.

I've found that most people regret not their failures but rather never having the courage to give something new & exciting a chance. As I tell my kids, "Don't die wondering". Best of luck with whichever direction you ultimately decide upon.

Be Well,
fmhealth

[sscritic]

Unlike the rumors, housing is not out of reach of new Ph.D.s in CA. My son bought his first house three years out in 2009. He had $100,000 down on a $500,000 house. He got the $100,000 by saving. I didn't give him a penny. His salary was less than yours.

[JMacDonald]

It would be great to work for a place that can do these sorts of things: http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/video/?id=1103

[btenny]

As far as the Mars Lander and the current mission, a good portion of that work is being done in Arizona at the two Universities The University of Arizona in Tucson and Arizona State University in Tempe. The UA guys did a lot of the mission planning work and the ASU guy does some payload work but I am generalizing from what little I have read. I also suspect the OP knows about this already but the rest of you do not so here are some links. See below. JPL is the general contractor and mission manager but other groups do the bulk of the details.

http://www.arizona.edu/features/mars-mi ... d-all-over
http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/mission.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_(spacecraft)
http://azstarnet.com/news/science/mars- ... ca64e.html
http://www.azfamily.com/news/ASU-U-of-A ... 07796.html
http://themis.asu.edu/news/themis-camer ... s-map-ever

Bill

[btenny]

OP. To calibrate you a good 2 bdrm apartment in Pasadena will run you around $2200 per month according to my neighbor. His son just moved there in December to work at a computer game company. He is BSCS graduate right out of school and is getting paid $80K to write game software to calibrate you on local pay scales. As far as the area, Pasadena is pretty nice but it is quite different than the beachy towns of Hermosa Beach or Huntington Beach on the coast. It is a small green college town with mission red tile homes/stuff set beside the LA mountains with downtown LA a few miles away.

Bill

[sscritic]

Note: JPL really isn't in Pasadena:

Street address for use in online map searches:
4800 Oak Grove Drive
La Cañada Flintridge, CA 91011

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/about_JPL/maps.cfm

It's off the 210 Freeway on the section that runs North toward the 118, not on the East - West portion that runs through Pasadena.
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/about_JPL/image ... to_JPL.jpg

[Levett]

I grew up near JPL. Has lots of appeal, but the cost of living--and possibly the commute--may come as a bit of a shock compared to upstate NY.

But here's the deal: you are making a BIG family decision.

If JPL invites you out for an interview, see if you can bring your wife and spend a couple of extra days looking around.

If you are a family-centered guy, the post at JPL--should it materialize--may not offset the other things that make your family a family.

I've been down this path--reminding myself (in my case) that I wasn't thinking for one, but at one time for five.

Best of luck.

Lev

[reggiesimpson]

Good grandparents are worth a fortune!

[sscritic]

Good grandparents are worth a fortune!

My parents live within a few hours driving distance, which I see as a huge advantage to have once our family expands.

I live only 30 minutes from JPL, I am a great grandpa (as in great in performance), and I am available for hire. Send me a PM when you get here, and we can make arrangements. It will cost you less than a fortune, but not much less.

[House Blend]

To the OP, IMO it makes a big difference whether JPL is offering you an actual job, or if it is "soft money" to hire you for a specific research purpose on a specific fixed-term grant.

If the former, you would technically be an employee of Caltech. I would take that job at the drop of a hat.

My Dad spent the last ~25 years of his career at JPL. It was his dream job, and as far as I could tell, it stayed that way.

As a child affected by the career move, I can also add that I'm so glad that we moved to SoCal. Growing up in Texas would have been a fate worse than death.

[zebrafish]

Unlike the rumors, housing is not out of reach of new Ph.D.s in CA. My son bought his first house three years out in 2009. He had $100,000 down on a $500,000 house. He got the $100,000 by saving. I didn't give him a penny. His salary was less than yours.

I moved from a suburb of Philadelphia with 20 min commute to downtown Philly where I had a duplex that cost 120K. Same quality house in LA are cost 5x (or more) that, and commute would likely be much worse.

I currently live in LA area and love it. However, housing costs and taxes here are ridiculous. On 100K salary, I'm not sure it is worth living here given how far that much money goes here. By coming here, you will live in a worse quality house, probably have worse commute, have higher taxes, but you will have a better climate.

[sscritic]

Unlike the rumors, housing is not out of reach of new Ph.D.s in CA. My son bought his first house three years out in 2009. He had $100,000 down on a $500,000 house. He got the $100,000 by saving. I didn't give him a penny. His salary was less than yours.

I moved from a suburb of Philadelphia with 20 min commute to downtown Philly where I had a duplex that cost 120K. Same quality house in LA are cost 5x (or more) that, and commute would likely be much worse.

I currently live in LA area and love it. However, housing costs and taxes here are ridiculous. On 100K salary, I'm not sure it is worth living here given how far that much money goes here. By coming here, you will live in a worse quality house, probably have worse commute, have higher taxes, but you will have a better climate.

It depends on the circumstances and your willingness to live a certain lifestyle. My son lives one mile from his work. He and my DIL lived like graduate students for the first three years after he got his degree in a one bedroom apartment, not a two bedroom, while saving for their house. I didn't say it was cheap or easy; I said it was doable.

[Valuethinker]

At this stage in your life and career I think you should go for the best possible job.

Make the location fit the job, not vice versa.

Now I cannot say that JPL is the best possible job, and given what is happening in the US government it may not be safe. It might be possible to make a better job where you are now?

However in the field of applied science, it's hard to see a better (or more exciting) thing on your CV than JPL?

Over to you and your spouse to decide whether you can make the housing and other issues work.

[Harold]

I didn't see anything in the original post saying that the family was opposed to it (and the parents were several hours away, not next door, anyway).

Barring objections from the wife and family, and presuming the job is one that is wanted -- I'd trade northern NY for southern California in a heartbeat. Besides great weather and a stimulating workplace, new experiences lead to personal growth for everyone.

[zebrafish]

It depends on the circumstances and your willingness to live a certain lifestyle. My son lives one mile from his work. He and my DIL lived like graduate students for the first three years after he got his degree in a one bedroom apartment, not a two bedroom, while saving for their house. I didn't say it was cheap or easy; I said it was doable.

I totally agree. I made sacrifices/investments in my career early in life for delayed gratification/reimbursement and I would not change a thing. I'm happy with my decision.

I guess my point is that moving in this circumstance might equal a sacrifice on the standard-of-living side of the equation. Important to realize that going in...

[EyeYield]

Do you like to swim?
http://www.rosebowlaquatics.org/
The live web cam is great.

Just thought I'd throw that out there, because there's lots of activities you can do in southern California that you can't do in upstate NY and that may be something to consider when starting a family.

[JMacDonald]

Do you like to swim?
http://www.rosebowlaquatics.org/
The live web cam is great.

Just thought I'd throw that out there, because there's lots of activities you can do in southern California that you can't do in upstate NY and that may be something to consider when starting a family.

Along with swimming, the Angeles Crest Highway is in the backyard of JPL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angeles_Crest_Highway
In one hour one can be in the mountains hiking in the Angeles Nation Forest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angeles_National_Forest

[sscritic]

Angeles National Forest is also a great place to be attacked by a mountain lion.

Angeles National Forest officials closed Mt. Lowe's trails and roads Friday as teams of trackers and dogs intensified their search for a mountain lion that attacked a 27-year-old bicyclist this week.

Ok, that was 17 years ago, but still ...

[investor]

from anywhere within Los Angeles one is two hours or less from good beaches, mountains, harbor or the desert. Most of which are good year round.

investor

[EyeYield]

Angeles National Forest is also a great place to be attacked by a mountain lion.

Angeles National Forest officials closed Mt. Lowe's trails and roads Friday as teams of trackers and dogs intensified their search for a mountain lion that attacked a 27-year-old bicyclist this week.

Ok, that was 17 years ago, but still ...

Well as far as gloom and doom are concerned, there's lots of bears in them thar hills too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXCwRqyeKTk

Oh, and lets not forget about the earthquakes.......... the physical cliffs

[hicabob]

Angeles National Forest is also a great place to be attacked by a mountain lion.

Angeles National Forest officials closed Mt. Lowe's trails and roads Friday as teams of trackers and dogs intensified their search for a mountain lion that attacked a 27-year-old bicyclist this week.

Ok, that was 17 years ago, but still ...

Well as far as gloom and doom are concerned, there's lots of bears in them thar hills too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXCwRqyeKTk

Oh, and lets not forget about the earthquakes.......... the physical cliffs

But remember a resident is more likely to be killed due to an Albany snowstorm than be killed in a California earthquake ... watch out for the Great Whites though!

[SurfCityBill]

from anywhere within Los Angeles one is two hours or less from good beaches, mountains, harbor or the desert. Most of which are good year round.

investor

I am currently looking at snow covered mountains as I type this and I am exactly 6 miles from the ocean. It is currently 61 degrees on New Years Eve.

[HueyLD]

Bogleraw,

A few questions:

(1) What are you not happy about your present job? Is it something intrinsic, or is it fixable by getting another job?

(2) Is your wife on board with your proposed move to the left coast? If she is not enthusiastic about it, all bets are off.

(3) Are you adventurous, or are you set in your ways? O.k., you are relatively young, but not everyone can adapt to big changes no matter the age.

(4) Do you have a plan B if the JPL job doesn't work out?

(5) Finally, this appears to be a once in a lifetime opportunity and it may not come for the second time. So, focus on longer term benefits and don't let short term issues (such as loss on sale of your home) interfere with your long-term goals.

Best of luck to you and hope you make the right choice for you and your family.

[reisner]

Pasadena is a great town except for the heat and air pollution from July through October. Expect to pay over half a million for a so-so house for your expanding family. Expect to drive a long way to the beach in heavy traffic. Expect high taxes for which you get very little in return except the privilege of living in California. You already know the pros and cons of Albany.

[Phineas J. Whoopee]

Hello, ...
I was recently given a verbal offer to join NASA's Jet Propulsion Lab (JPL) ...

Take it and never look back.

PJW

[l2ridehd]

If your going to move from NY to another state, why pick CA? Go someplace with a low cost of living and low state taxes. Go to a state where they are not going bankrupt soon. NASA has 8 major locations across the US plus a couple off shore. A few are in very low cost of living states. Your moving from a very high cost of living state about to go bankrupt to an even higher cost of living state even closer to bankruptcy. Probably a bad move no matter what the job is.

[linuxuser]

Hello, ...
I was recently given a verbal offer to join NASA's Jet Propulsion Lab (JPL) ...

Take it and never look back.

PJW

That's fine to say if he wasn't married.

When I was deciding between staying home and attending Ohio State with a $2K scholarship, I chose to go out of state to U of Illinois.
Had I had the choice to make the decision over again, I would have saved the $$$ and stayed in state.

You can't live on "prestige".
It sounds to me like the OP has visions of "fun and exciting" work at JPL.
He may end up finding that the grass isn't always greener.

[Phineas J. Whoopee]

Hello, ...
I was recently given a verbal offer to join NASA's Jet Propulsion Lab (JPL) ...

Take it and never look back.

PJW

... That's fine to say if he wasn't married. ...

A fair point.

PJW

[fareastwarriors]

Expect high taxes for which you get very little in return except the privilege of living in California. You already know the pros and cons of Albany.

While not in SoCal, I live in SF bay area here.
Despite the high taxes, it is still worth it for me thus far.

[baw703916]

I recommend a reading a quick read of Richard Feynman's first autobiographical book, Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman.

Quick synopsis: Feynman was on the faculty at Cornell (although detailed to Los Alamos for most of the war), and then moved to Caltech.

Key quote: "There's got to be a part of the world that doesn't have this problem" (said first of a snowstorm while he was in upstate NY, and shortly afterwards of the smog when he was in Pasadena).

There's no ideal place without any drawbacks. It best to decide what is most important to you, and what shortcomings you can tolerate.

[rich]

I would move. I think my parents would follow me to Southern California if I moved there. But at least Albany is not Buffalo.

At least not everybody makes rude comments about places where people live.

[steve roy]

Any place is a good place if it suits your needs and you LIKE it.

[jridger2011]

Discuss this with your wife, you'll be uprooting her life for your dreams. I'm a lifelong NYer and the winters here are tough, a major change in scenery and weather sounds really good.

[englishgirl]

JPL? Go.

If you don't like it, or you have a child and it's really not working out being far from family, move back. But move back to the same town as a set of grandparents if you really want to be close to family. With a job at JPL on your resume, I think you'd probably be set for walking in to pretty much any job you chose.

Life should be an adventure. This could be an amazing one.

[sscritic]

Don't forget the value of celebrity sighting in Los Angeles. My daughter just told me that she was in line with Smokey Robinson at the movies last night; he held the door open for her and told her his mother would kill him if he didn't. I tend not to recognize people myself, but I have had a few sightings, and my children have had many more.

[BHCadet]

The school districts near JPL such as La Cañada Unified and San Marino Unified are very good.