Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
About 6 months ago I initiated a conversation with my new boss about my track record in my team, and made my case for becoming a senior manager. After many more conversations over a period of 4 months, things progressed and we wrote up a new job description together. About 2 months after that, I've just been told that my promotion has finally been approved, effective Jan 1, 2013. I'm supposed to receive the offer early this week. I've been told it includes an increase in my base salary and a end-of-year bonus component, dependent on my performance. I'm expecting an increase of 10% to my base, which I've been told by others is pretty standard for our division, and a bonus of 1-2%.
The new job description includes 5-6 specific projects that are not on my old description. I've been doing aspects of several of the projects for the last 6 months. I anticipate that we will move ahead with the job description and have me expand my focus immediately, even though my promotion won't go into effect until January. My boss and I have a meeting this week with some other departments about kicking off one of these projects, actually.
I plan to approach my boss about getting compensated retroactively for the months of Nov and Dec, come January. My intention is to focus on how I've been doing extra work for some time now, and that I'm eager to get moving on adding more to my plate for the good of our team. I feel that I should be compensated for this, even if our division doesn't have the budget to cover it now.
Any thoughts/suggestions?
Thanks,
Iced Tea
The new job description includes 5-6 specific projects that are not on my old description. I've been doing aspects of several of the projects for the last 6 months. I anticipate that we will move ahead with the job description and have me expand my focus immediately, even though my promotion won't go into effect until January. My boss and I have a meeting this week with some other departments about kicking off one of these projects, actually.
I plan to approach my boss about getting compensated retroactively for the months of Nov and Dec, come January. My intention is to focus on how I've been doing extra work for some time now, and that I'm eager to get moving on adding more to my plate for the good of our team. I feel that I should be compensated for this, even if our division doesn't have the budget to cover it now.
Any thoughts/suggestions?
Thanks,
Iced Tea
Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
When I read this, I thought of the last line in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct2AWh-nKSk
If your firm has nothing budgeted for out-of-band bonuses and merit pay, then I cannot imagine that you will get anything ... especially with only 2 months to go in 2012.
If your firm has nothing budgeted for out-of-band bonuses and merit pay, then I cannot imagine that you will get anything ... especially with only 2 months to go in 2012.
Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
Forget it. Doing extra work got you the promotion. Enjoy come Jan. 1.icedtea wrote:I plan to approach my boss about getting compensated retroactively for the months of Nov and Dec, come January. My intention is to focus on how I've been doing extra work for some time now, and that I'm eager to get moving on adding more to my plate for the good of our team. I feel that I should be compensated for this, even if our division doesn't have the budget to cover it now.
Any thoughts/suggestions?
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- stevewolfe
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Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
Agree with the above - forget the retro pay.
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Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
It's taken a lot of work, a lot of conversations and perhaps a bit of political capital from your boss to get the promotion and the raise. I wouldn't want to jeopardize all that by asking for retroactive pay that is not a common business practice and could impact how they regard you going forward just as you assume your new position.
Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
tfb has given you excellent advice and I advise you follow his recommendationtfb wrote:Forget it. Doing extra work got you the promotion. Enjoy come Jan. 1.icedtea wrote:I plan to approach my boss about getting compensated retroactively for the months of Nov and Dec, come January. My intention is to focus on how I've been doing extra work for some time now, and that I'm eager to get moving on adding more to my plate for the good of our team. I feel that I should be compensated for this, even if our division doesn't have the budget to cover it now.
Any thoughts/suggestions?
TT
Live Life Simple and Less Soft
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Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
A good way to never get another promotion.
Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
There's no harm in asking but I probably wouldn't push it if your boss isn't receptive to the idea.
Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
If you plan on staying there for the long haul, don't waste their time asking for nickels and dimes.
If this is not a long-term thing for you then by all means ask for every nickel you can possibly get. Just realize that your promotion might be killed when they realize you are a short-timer looking for the quick buck. Very often in things like this, there is a lot of harm in asking.
If it makes you feel better, you probably will take 2 months to get up to speed in your new role so it's not unfair that they are paying you at your old salary for that time period.
If this is not a long-term thing for you then by all means ask for every nickel you can possibly get. Just realize that your promotion might be killed when they realize you are a short-timer looking for the quick buck. Very often in things like this, there is a lot of harm in asking.
If it makes you feel better, you probably will take 2 months to get up to speed in your new role so it's not unfair that they are paying you at your old salary for that time period.
Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
As someone who spent 30+ years as an HR executive I can tell you that your request should be met with an icy stare from your manager for the various reasons stated above. You would risk that for two months worth of an increase? They'd find a way to get it back come bonus time.
Jeff in Tennessee
Jeff in Tennessee
Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
If the opportunity is there, the best way to get ahead is to do the job that you want to have, not what you have now. IOW, you have shown the willingness and ability for the new position, and your boss stuck his/her neck out for you.
You are at a critical point here - building relationships (networking) that will keep your career and reputation intact for the long haul. Don't risk everything by asking for a petty raise that amounts to only a few dollars. You'll lose credibility with everyone, especially your boss.
How to proceed? Act like you have the new position now, take responsibility. The promotion will then become a formality.
You are at a critical point here - building relationships (networking) that will keep your career and reputation intact for the long haul. Don't risk everything by asking for a petty raise that amounts to only a few dollars. You'll lose credibility with everyone, especially your boss.
How to proceed? Act like you have the new position now, take responsibility. The promotion will then become a formality.
Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
thanks for all your responses. i hadn't really thought of asking for retroactive pay until i spoke with 2 colleagues last month, including one in my division, who did so with success. that said, i don't know if/how their requests impacted their relationships with their supervisors.
i'll give this a second thought.
i'll give this a second thought.
Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
agree with others. In the long run, it isn't a big deal and could hurt the relationship. I'd let it go.
I always wanted to be a procrastinator.
Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
Since others have done it, you might be working someplace that has unusual business practices.icedtea wrote:thanks for all your responses. i hadn't really thought of asking for retroactive pay until i spoke with 2 colleagues last month, including one in my division, who did so with success. that said, i don't know if/how their requests impacted their relationships with their supervisors.
i'll give this a second thought.
Do you work for a highly regulated (or unionized) utility or government/municipal organization? More information might help.
Warning: I am about 80% satisficer (accepting of good enough) and 20% maximizer
Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
I work for a software company.stan1 wrote:Since others have done it, you might be working someplace that has unusual business practices.icedtea wrote:thanks for all your responses. i hadn't really thought of asking for retroactive pay until i spoke with 2 colleagues last month, including one in my division, who did so with success. that said, i don't know if/how their requests impacted their relationships with their supervisors.
i'll give this a second thought.
Do you work for a highly regulated (or unionized) utility or government/municipal organization? More information might help.
Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
I would just ask. Like I said, there's absolutely no harm in asking. People claiming it could in any way impact your relationships with superiors are blowing smoke. That's not gonna happen. Just don't be annoying about it. If they say no, let it go.icedtea wrote:I work for a software company.stan1 wrote:Since others have done it, you might be working someplace that has unusual business practices.icedtea wrote:thanks for all your responses. i hadn't really thought of asking for retroactive pay until i spoke with 2 colleagues last month, including one in my division, who did so with success. that said, i don't know if/how their requests impacted their relationships with their supervisors.
i'll give this a second thought.
Do you work for a highly regulated (or unionized) utility or government/municipal organization? More information might help.
Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
Baloney. I would ask for everything I could. It makes you look more professional with a focus. You have no union doing collective bargaining for you, therefore, you are your own representative and only one person at that. I would come up with a list of demands/proposals in relation to your managerial skills and position, for your own future. Pay, retro, bonuses, hours, overtime, cost of living, vacations, sick pay all the above. Show your boss that you mean business and you are worth your weight in gold. That's what I would do. Aim high, and he'll probably meet you somewhere in the middle. Usually, once you get what you will get, there is no getting more for the longest time. So don't sell yourself short and GOOD LUCK to you!
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Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
My thought exactly! Don't push your luck.tfb wrote:Forget it. Doing extra work got you the promotion. Enjoy come Jan. 1.icedtea wrote:I plan to approach my boss about getting compensated retroactively for the months of Nov and Dec, come January. My intention is to focus on how I've been doing extra work for some time now, and that I'm eager to get moving on adding more to my plate for the good of our team. I feel that I should be compensated for this, even if our division doesn't have the budget to cover it now.
Any thoughts/suggestions?
Have a plan, stay the course and simplify. Then ignore the noise!
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Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
I must disagree. Once you're labeled an ingrate, most management won't lift a finger to help you. My wife and I have, between us, managed the compensation (salary and bonus) of many hundreds of employees and also made decisions about who kept their job and who would be let go in downturns. Other than being dishonest, being an ingrate was the worst and once so labeled, it was close to impossible to remove the characterization.KyleAAA wrote:
I would just ask. Like I said, there's absolutely no harm in asking. People claiming it could in any way impact your relationships with superiors are blowing smoke. That's not gonna happen. Just don't be annoying about it. If they say no, let it go.
Beyond being an ingrate, it also labels you as venal and without a sense of proportion. Just how much time are you expecting your boss to spend on your 2 month delta? Nice for him to realize how little you value his time.
Finally, don't let your boss know that you have discussed this with co-workers.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
Advice - don't ask, drop it. Then, send a very nice thank you note to whoever was involved in helping you getting the promotion come january 1, 2013. Sets you up for bigger things much better than asking for a relatively small amount of $$, that you have low odds to get anyway, since you are not entitled to it.
Congrats on the promotion!
Congrats on the promotion!
Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
Seems like some here want you to offer you boss a blank check to do what he wants and how much he must pay you. If you get viewed as an ingrate, how do you view him? A money hungry greedy owner that wants to pocket all his profits and not pay his workers accordingly because its good for business? HIS OWN?
Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
I agree with everyone who says to drop the idea of retro pay
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Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
Unless I missed it in the thread, my impression is that the new boss is an employee just like OP. Boss has spent time with OP coming up with a new job description.29palms wrote:Seems like some here want you to offer you boss a blank check to do what he wants and how much he must pay you. If you get viewed as an ingrate, how do you view him? A money hungry greedy owner that wants to pocket all his profits and not pay his workers accordingly because its good for business? HIS OWN?
It sounds as though you've had some bad experiences with greedy bosses. We probably all have. Unless I missed it, this boss has done nothing but be a good boss, getting a promotion for OP even though it doesn't sound as if there was a standard position for him to be promoted to.
OP can do what he likes, but I think most of us here believe, sincerely, that he would hurt himself following your approach.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
TomatoTomahto wrote:Unless I missed it in the thread, my impression is that the new boss is an employee just like OP. Boss has spent time with OP coming up with a new job description.
It sounds as though you've had some bad experiences with greedy bosses. We probably all have. Unless I missed it, this boss has done nothing but be a good boss, getting a promotion for OP even though it doesn't sound as if there was a standard position for him to be promoted to.
OP can do what he likes, but I think most of us here believe, sincerely, that he would hurt himself following your approach.
Thanks to all who've shared their opinion. Just to provide some more context, here's some background.
1. When I joined my company two years ago I'd applied for a Senior position. When I was given the offer, they changed the title to just Manager, citing that if I were hired as a Senior it would upset others on the team who were of a similar experience level. This decision was made by my former boss. My current boss is well aware of this.
2. About a month after I first spoke with my boss about my wish to expand my role in his team and get promoted, he said that it was all set and "with HR." That was in late June. Since then, we've had regular chats about how things were moving with my promotion every 2 weeks or so. Every time he'd tell me it was happening but that it is taking a while. I don't know the true reasons why it took as long as it did, but I will say my boss didn't do a very good job being honest with me and managing expectations. Sure, I'm happy about the promotion, but truth be told until he notified me of the good news last week, I had one foot out the door.
Iced Tea (OP)
Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
off-topic comment removed by admin alex
Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
There you go. Look out for yourself and if you don't get what you want and deserve, don't take the position. If you get promoted just because you are looking for a job title, you're making a big mistake. Get paid what you think you're worth. If you think that you can be of that managerial type with the expertise, don't be taken advantaged of. It's a two way street. Maybe you should ask for that retro to see what you're up against in future request for advancement. I see he put it up to "HR" to handle the situation for you. There you go. It's between you and HR. Your boss isn't the one that's going to pay out of his pocket. It's between you, HR and your boss because he thinks you are the right one for the position. Ask HR for the retro. You're boss shouldn't have any say so between you and Human Resources.
icedtea wrote:TomatoTomahto wrote:Unless I missed it in the thread, my impression is that the new boss is an employee just like OP. Boss has spent time with OP coming up with a new job description.
It sounds as though you've had some bad experiences with greedy bosses. We probably all have. Unless I missed it, this boss has done nothing but be a good boss, getting a promotion for OP even though it doesn't sound as if there was a standard position for him to be promoted to.
OP can do what he likes, but I think most of us here believe, sincerely, that he would hurt himself following your approach.
Thanks to all who've shared their opinion. Just to provide some more context, here's some background.
1. When I joined my company two years ago I'd applied for a Senior position. When I was given the offer, they changed the title to just Manager, citing that if I were hired as a Senior it would upset others on the team who were of a similar experience level. This decision was made by my former boss. My current boss is well aware of this.
2. About a month after I first spoke with my boss about my wish to expand my role in his team and get promoted, he said that it was all set and "with HR." That was in late June. Since then, we've had regular chats about how things were moving with my promotion every 2 weeks or so. Every time he'd tell me it was happening but that it is taking a while. I don't know the true reasons why it took as long as it did, but I will say my boss didn't do a very good job being honest with me and managing expectations. Sure, I'm happy about the promotion, but truth be told until he notified me of the good news last week, I had one foot out the door.
Iced Tea (OP)
Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
Greed is not good.
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Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
The downside to this is much higher then the upside. I don't know your company but where I work all raises need to be approved by 2 levels and HR at least has to look at it. Best case you get it and nobody has any issue with it, we are talking how much after taxes ? Worst case the promotion will probably still get through but you are stuck being greedy and trouble.
Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
Getting paid fairly for providing certain services like taking on a promotion is not being greedy. He has to be the man happy with his wages in the end. If the company is not willing to meet his needs as a manager in terms of salary, he may want to stay put or look for promotions outside the company.
Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
I'm a retired manager from a large Corp. I've promoted many people.
Unless there is something very unusual about your company, I would strongly advise you not to ask.
That's from my experience. But how about this?
Your raise is important partly because you now have a new base line. For the rest of your career with this company (and perhaps with others) you will be ahead each year by the amount of this raise.
Compare that to the value of two months worth of that raise. No - with the chance of two months of that raise.
The only time I could advise otherwise would be if you worked in such a predatory environment that you felt that you would lose respect if you let yourself " be taken advantage of". But from your description, that seems far from your situation.
Unless there is something very unusual about your company, I would strongly advise you not to ask.
That's from my experience. But how about this?
Your raise is important partly because you now have a new base line. For the rest of your career with this company (and perhaps with others) you will be ahead each year by the amount of this raise.
Compare that to the value of two months worth of that raise. No - with the chance of two months of that raise.
The only time I could advise otherwise would be if you worked in such a predatory environment that you felt that you would lose respect if you let yourself " be taken advantage of". But from your description, that seems far from your situation.
Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
In companies that I've worked in, you generally don't get promoted unless you're already doing ~80% of the new job.
The sewer system is a form of welfare state. |
-- "Libra", Don DeLillo
Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
Do this new job for a year, then jump ship for a 20% raise to another company.icedtea wrote:I'm expecting an increase of 10% to my base, which I've been told by others is pretty standard for our division, and a bonus of 1-2%.
Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
Especially given that others at your company have done it, I would say when you meet w/ your boss in the process of taking on new projects etc. during this month you could "throw out there" the idea of getting a year-end bonus or other compensation since you will be doing the manager job prior to your official promotion date. I've been engineering director in a SW company, and if someone was really going to be assuming management responsibilities 2 months prior to a promotion being effective I can't imagine taking it badly if they made an exploratory request for additional compensation. So it might be a long shot but should not hurt, again if done in an "since I'm taking on the responsibility now, I'm just wonderin' if maybe..." way.icedtea wrote:thanks for all your responses. i hadn't really thought of asking for retroactive pay until i spoke with 2 colleagues last month, including one in my division, who did so with success. that said, i don't know if/how their requests impacted their relationships with their supervisors.
i'll give this a second thought.
Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
The company offered him a promotion effective Jan 1. The OP wants the promotion to be effective immediately, but that is not the offer and the department doesn't have it in this year's budget. He can choose to take on extra work now or he can wait for the promotion, but it is difficult to see how he is getting ripped off since he's being given the position and salary he asked for and his new duties officially start on the start date. Maybe his extra work in advance is worthy of compensation, but since they were not wiling to pay him to begin now perhaps HR would rather have him relax and wait for the budget year. The OP is not entitled to extra pay beyond what was offered with the new position.29palms wrote:Getting paid fairly for providing certain services like taking on a promotion is not being greedy. He has to be the man happy with his wages in the end. If the company is not willing to meet his needs as a manager in terms of salary, he may want to stay put or look for promotions outside the company.
Which doesn't mean he shouldn't ask, if that's the corporate culture. Just that he should be careful how he presents himself.
Re: Getting promoted, how to ask for retroactive pay?
Thank you for the additional context. Regardless of how maligned you feel, please SUCK IT UP. A majority of the folks here have already told you that it's not worth it to appear ungrateful over the additional $ you might get over 2 months. Have you done the math taking out all the taxes and calculated how much $ we're talking about here? If I was your manager, and you came back to me on this, I would not be impressed. At all.icedtea wrote:TomatoTomahto wrote:Unless I missed it in the thread, my impression is that the new boss is an employee just like OP. Boss has spent time with OP coming up with a new job description.
It sounds as though you've had some bad experiences with greedy bosses. We probably all have. Unless I missed it, this boss has done nothing but be a good boss, getting a promotion for OP even though it doesn't sound as if there was a standard position for him to be promoted to.
OP can do what he likes, but I think most of us here believe, sincerely, that he would hurt himself following your approach.
Thanks to all who've shared their opinion. Just to provide some more context, here's some background.
1. When I joined my company two years ago I'd applied for a Senior position. When I was given the offer, they changed the title to just Manager, citing that if I were hired as a Senior it would upset others on the team who were of a similar experience level. This decision was made by my former boss. My current boss is well aware of this.
2. About a month after I first spoke with my boss about my wish to expand my role in his team and get promoted, he said that it was all set and "with HR." That was in late June. Since then, we've had regular chats about how things were moving with my promotion every 2 weeks or so. Every time he'd tell me it was happening but that it is taking a while. I don't know the true reasons why it took as long as it did, but I will say my boss didn't do a very good job being honest with me and managing expectations. Sure, I'm happy about the promotion, but truth be told until he notified me of the good news last week, I had one foot out the door.
Iced Tea (OP)
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