I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby umfundi » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:48 am

Update:

I decided I was getting mostly nowhere with BofA in terms of Chip+PIN, so I joined SDFCU. I also looked at Andrews FCU, but their website has a glitch or two. Along the way, I joined ACC (American Consumer Council) for free. That is my affiliation.

Opened up accounts at SDFCU online, no problem. Printed, signed, scanned and returned the signature card. Filled out the credit card application online. It is pending. The application is a little odd in that it is the same as a loan application. Definitely not your junk mail pre-approved card.

We shall see. I did not pay much attention to the rewards or conditions. Being easily able to buy a train ticket at Schipol is more important to me than the cash back percentage.
(3) A demonstrated and enduring consumer preference for non-PIN transactions.

My bias against my PIN Debit/ATM card is not that I am using a PIN. It is lack of rewards, possible ATM fees, possible holds on my funds, lower fraud protection, ...

I mean, isn't it insane that I can go to my bank to see a live teller for free, and get a free cup of coffee and have a comfortable armchair to read the daily newspaper, but I have to pay an ATM fee? Also, I am totally not interested in managing my use of possibly out-of-network ATMs, or reconciling my statement that my bank may have refunded to me fees charged by other ATM networks.

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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby talzara » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:42 pm

umfundi wrote:My bias against my PIN Debit/ATM card is not that I am using a PIN. It is lack of rewards, possible ATM fees, possible holds on my funds, lower fraud protection, ...


There are many reasons to prefer credit cards over debit cards. However, debit cards have increased their share of payments during the recession, vis-à-vis credit cards. Thus, the average consumer does not think like the average Boglehead.

A real obstacle to the introduction of chip-and-PIN in the US is that consumers prefer signature debit to PIN debit. Sometimes this is for valid reasons -- liability protection on Mastercard, or rewards preferentially offered to signature debit. Sometimes this is for mistaken beliefs -- for example, on the Visa network, PIN debit comes with very similar fraud protection to signature debit. (Who can keep track, really?)

And there are other negative associations. For example, you mention "ATM fees" even though this thread is about card usage at point-of-sale, where there are no ATM fees. But the fact that there are fees at ATMs certainly makes the consumer apprehensive about using the same card at POS. (Again, who can keep track?)

PIN credit is likely to run into similar problems as PIN debit. These negative associations are hard to break. Certainly, it is not promising that the rollout of chip-and-PIN was initially associated with reduced fraud protections in Europe.
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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby umfundi » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:14 pm

Not that I wanted another savings account or credit card, but:
Dear Mr. xxxxxx:

We are pleased to report that you have been approved for an EMV CHIP Visa Platinum Rewards account with a variable percentage rate of 6.99%.

You will receive the card in the mail within 7 to 10 business days.

If you have any questions or concerns, please call us at: 703-706-5116.

Regards,

Lending Solutions Department

State Department Federal Credit Union


Their online application process is pretty painless.

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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby VictoriaF » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:16 pm

umfundi wrote:Not that I wanted another savings account or credit card, but:
Dear Mr. xxxxxx:

We are pleased to report that you have been approved for an EMV CHIP Visa Platinum Rewards account with a variable percentage rate of 6.99%.

You will receive the card in the mail within 7 to 10 business days.

If you have any questions or concerns, please call us at: 703-706-5116.

Regards,

Lending Solutions Department

State Department Federal Credit Union


Their online application process is pretty painless.

Keith


Thank you, Keith. I should stop procrastinating and do the same.

Victoria
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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby etarini » Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:16 pm

Victoria wrote:Thank you, Keith. I should stop procrastinating and do the same.


Likewise here. I promised myself that I'd find a chip-and-pin solution by the time we visit friends outside London in May.

Glad to see people having success here; until someone mentioned Andrews and SDFCU, I'd just about given up on finding a card.

Eric
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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby umfundi » Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:37 pm

etarini wrote:
Victoria wrote:Thank you, Keith. I should stop procrastinating and do the same.


Likewise here. I promised myself that I'd find a chip-and-pin solution by the time we visit friends outside London in May.

Glad to see people having success here; until someone mentioned Andrews and SDFCU, I'd just about given up on finding a card.

Eric

The fine print:

I tried SDFCU rather than Andrews because I saw some negative comments about the application process at Andrews. SDFCU were very good. After I filled out the online application they called to explain the rest of the process. I did put $2k in a savings account.

To join, you need to select the affiliation to American Consumer Council or some such organization. Membership is free if you open the CU account. You do not have to do anything else about joining other than open the account.

The credit card application is a real application. You have to submit paystubs or tax returns. They do the proper due diligence.

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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby Polar_Ice » Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:05 pm

umfundi wrote:On a recent trip to Europe (the Netherlands) I found I could not use a credit card to buy an inter-city train ticket, because none of my cards have an embedded chip. It took some scrambling to find the cash.

Now, I have called my credit card providers to see if I can get a card with a chip. AMEX said no. M/C said yes, but walked me through what was suspiciously like an application for a new card.

What is the advice for US credit card holders to get chip-enabled cards to use in Europe?

Keith


I ran into the same problem at the Amsterdam Airport trying to purchase train tickets at the machine. Then after waiting in a long line the clerk said they didn't take any cards without the chip. I ended up going to a bank at the back of the terminal and getting some cash. I called my bank and they said they have no plans to start issuing cards with chips.
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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby umfundi » Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:33 pm

Polar_Ice wrote:
umfundi wrote:On a recent trip to Europe (the Netherlands) I found I could not use a credit card to buy an inter-city train ticket, because none of my cards have an embedded chip. It took some scrambling to find the cash.

Now, I have called my credit card providers to see if I can get a card with a chip. AMEX said no. M/C said yes, but walked me through what was suspiciously like an application for a new card.

What is the advice for US credit card holders to get chip-enabled cards to use in Europe?

Keith


I ran into the same problem at the Amsterdam Airport trying to purchase train tickets at the machine. Then after waiting in a long line the clerk said they didn't take any cards without the chip. I ended up going to a bank at the back of the terminal and getting some cash. I called my bank and they said they have no plans to start issuing cards with chips.


Exactly my experience, except the train ticket to Den Haag was less than €10, and I had some Euros in cash.

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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby Polar_Ice » Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:51 pm

I called USAA and they are working on offering a chip & PIN card in the near future (next year). They couldn't give an exact date. Any other USAA members that want a chip & PIN card should call and speak with a supervisor. That might help in making it a higher priority.
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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby TheGreyingDuke » Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:08 pm

One further complication... to make the most economical use of a chip plus PIN credit card outside of the US, you would need a bank that does not charge foreign transaction fees. I realized that my "no foreign transaction fee" card (Capital One) and my "chip card" (USBank) are with different vendors!

Are there vendors that combine both attributes?
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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby umfundi » Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:29 pm

TheGreyingDuke wrote:One further complication... to make the most economical use of a chip plus PIN credit card outside of the US, you would need a bank that does not charge foreign transaction fees. I realized that my "no foreign transaction fee" card (Capital One) and my "chip card" (USBank) are with different vendors!

Are there vendors that combine both attributes?

I believe that SDFCU does not have a foreign transaction fee. You could check their terms.

This is a complicated question, for it includes the exchange rate, the ATM fee, and the interest rate on cash advances.

When I travel on business, I use a credit card when at all possible and claim the actual dollar amounts on my expense report. When I travel on my own account, I withdraw money in relatively large amounts at an ATM and pay cash. Hotels and car rentals I book through Expedia (even from overseas) and pay in USD. Mainly to avoid surprises.

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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby Diogenes » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:59 pm

umfundi wrote:
etarini wrote:
Victoria wrote:Thank you, Keith. I should stop procrastinating and do the same.


Likewise here. I promised myself that I'd find a chip-and-pin solution by the time we visit friends outside London in May.

Glad to see people having success here; until someone mentioned Andrews and SDFCU, I'd just about given up on finding a card.

Eric

The fine print:

I tried SDFCU rather than Andrews because I saw some negative comments about the application process at Andrews. SDFCU were very good. After I filled out the online application they called to explain the rest of the process. I did put $2k in a savings account.

To join, you need to select the affiliation to American Consumer Council or some such organization. Membership is free if you open the CU account. You do not have to do anything else about joining other than open the account.

The credit card application is a real application. You have to submit paystubs or tax returns. They do the proper due diligence.

Keith


Like Keith's comments, I cannot recommend Andrews FCU. Many barriers to opening the account depending on snail mail, etc. I understand they are being careful, but I felt like I was back in 1975 again. I would wait until USAA starts issuing a chip & pin at the first of 2013, or someone else that is more mainstream.

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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby hicabob » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:14 pm

Here's another option for a chipped visa - USBank travel rewards.

https://www.usbank.com/credit-cards/fle ... ravel.html
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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby Diogenes » Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:04 pm

hicabob wrote:Here's another option for a chipped visa - USBank travel rewards.

https://www.usbank.com/credit-cards/fle ... ravel.html



This looks like a 'Chip & Signature' card which is different...
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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby hicabob » Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:20 pm

Diogenes wrote:
hicabob wrote:Here's another option for a chipped visa - USBank travel rewards.

https://www.usbank.com/credit-cards/fle ... ravel.html



This looks like a 'Chip & Signature' card which is different...


I use mine frequently - in the US you use the magstripe and sign - in Canadian/European restaurants they bring the pin machine and you punch in the pin.
No problems anywhere so far.
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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby Diogenes » Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:29 pm

hicabob wrote:
Diogenes wrote:
hicabob wrote:Here's another option for a chipped visa - USBank travel rewards.

https://www.usbank.com/credit-cards/fle ... ravel.html



This looks like a 'Chip & Signature' card which is different...


I use mine frequently - in the US you use the magstripe and sign - in Canadian/European restaurants they bring the pin machine and you punch in the pin.
No problems anywhere so far.


Could you be using the ATM feature? Below from their FAQ on your link, or direct https://www.usbank.com/splash/credit-ca ... s-emv.html:

I don't have a Personal Identification Number (PIN) for my FlexPerks Visa card. Do I need one?
You need a PIN only for cash withdrawals at ATMs. If you want one, call U.S. Bank at 877-978-7446. You will be asked for your signature to complete most in-person transactions at home and abroad.
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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby hicabob » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:03 pm

Diogenes wrote:
hicabob wrote:
Diogenes wrote:
hicabob wrote:Here's another option for a chipped visa - USBank travel rewards.

https://www.usbank.com/credit-cards/fle ... ravel.html



This looks like a 'Chip & Signature' card which is different...


I use mine frequently - in the US you use the magstripe and sign - in Canadian/European restaurants they bring the pin machine and you punch in the pin.
No problems anywhere so far.


Could you be using the ATM feature? Below from their FAQ on your link, or direct https://www.usbank.com/splash/credit-ca ... s-emv.html:

I don't have a Personal Identification Number (PIN) for my FlexPerks Visa card. Do I need one?
You need a PIN only for cash withdrawals at ATMs. If you want one, call U.S. Bank at 877-978-7446. You will be asked for your signature to complete most in-person transactions at home and abroad.



You are right - my USBank visa is actually a Corporate card issued in Canada (but uses US dollars) - works everywhere I have tried - I shouldn't have assumed this was the same - I just called them to confirm - very weird that this one has a chip and yet they don't allow it to be used properly.
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I have a chip on my shoulder, AND in my card!

Postby umfundi » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:59 pm

My new card arrived today. Also, a PIN number in a separate mailing.

The card is quite recognizable. It has a half-inch square gold chip embedded above the first four digits of the account number.

Image

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Below are the explanations that came with the card. I believe I am set!

Thank you all!

Keith

==========================================
Welcome to your new chip-enhanced Visa Platinum credit card.

This credit card is accepted worldwide, while offering you added security benefits. Activate your card now by calling 1-800:527-7728.

• Easy to use at merchants where chip cards are the standard, while still maintaining the convenience of a magnetic stripe on the back.

• No foreign transaction fees.

• No annual fee.

• Earn 1 Flexpoint for every $1 spent with your credit card. Flexpoints can be used toward hundreds of rewards including gift cards, airline tickets, merchandise and more.

==================================================
Questions about your new EMV chip-enhanced card?

Q: WHAT IS A CHIP AND PIN CARD?

A: Your new State Department Federal Credit Union Visa EMV Credit Card has an embedded microchip. When used at stores or merchants with chip-enabled terminals and at ATMs, the system validates the chip and the PIN, helping to ensure a more secure transaction. The addition of a personal identification number (PIN) provides an extra layer of security above and beyond the chip since only you know your PIN.

Q: WHY ARE YOU OFFERING A CHIP AND PIN CARD NOW?

A: Simplifying and enhancing the purchase experience for members traveling outside the United States is a key priority for SDFCU.

Q: WHAT INFORMATION IS ON A CHIP AND PIN CARD?

A: The microchip embedded in the card stores information required to authenticate, authorize and process transactions.

This is the same type of information already stored in the magnetic stripe.

Q: ARE THERE ANY ADDITIONAL FEES ASSOCIATED WITH CHIP AND PIN CARDS? A: No additional fees apply to your new card.

Q: CAN I USE MY NEW CARD FOR EVERYDAY TRANSACTIONS DOMESTICALLY?

A: Yes. In addition to the embedded microchip, your new card has a magnetic stripe on the back. That way you can make purchases by swiping your card and signing the receipt. You can also use your card at ATMs.

Q: WILL MY CARD WORK OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES?

A: Your new Chip and PIN card will work at merchants processing transactions using a chip-enabled terminal or using a magnetic stripe. Your Chip and PIN card can be used anywhere in the world where Visa cards are accepted.

Q: NOW THAT I HAVE A CHIP AND PIN CARD SHOULD I CONTINUE TO NOTIFY YOU BEFORE I TRAVEL INTERNATIONALLY?

A: Yes, advance notification will help ensure that legitimate purchases are approved.

Q: WHERE DO I GET A PIN FOR MY CHIP AND PIN CREDIT CARD? A: Your PIN for your Chip and PIN credit card will be mailed to you.

Q: HOW CAN I CHANGE MY PIN OR HAVE IT RESET BECAUSE I'VE FORGOTTEN IT?

A: Your PIN cannot be changed or reset. SDFCU is able to resend you your PIN in the event that you lose or forget it.

Please call 800.296.8882.

Q: WHO CAN I CONTACT IF I HAVE QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS ABOUT MY SDFCU CHIP AND PIN CREDIT CARD?

A: You can contact SDFCU's Member Service Experts at sdfcu@sdfcu.org or by calling 703.706.5000 or 800.296.8882.

Q: WILL THE PIN I USE FOR MAKING PURCHASES BE THE SAME AS THE PIN USED FOR CASH WITHDRAWALS ATTHEATM?

A: Yes, the PIN used for making purchases is the same as the PIN used for cash withdrawals. You are only issued one PIN for the card.

Q: HOW WILL I MAKE A PURCHASE WITH MY CHIP AND PIN CARD?

1. Rather than swiping your card, it will be inserted into the terminal for the entire transaction. Removing the card will terminate the transaction.

2. You will follow the prompts on the screen and enter your PIN instead of verifying the transaction with your signature.

3. When the transaction is complete, you will remove your card when prompted and wait for the receipt.

If the store or restaurant does not yet have a chip-enabled terminal, your card will be swiped and you will sign the receipt as you do today.
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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby VictoriaF » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:13 pm

Thank you, Keith.

It looks like a great card. Let us know whether it works as expected, after you have tried it in Europe.

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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby umfundi » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:52 pm

VictoriaF wrote: Let us know whether it works as expected, after you have tried it in Europe.
Victoria

That may not be until April. But, we are hoping for a large contract that includes England, France, and Germany, early in the New Year.

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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby Diogenes » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:35 am

Diogenes wrote:
umfundi wrote:
etarini wrote:
Victoria wrote:Thank you, Keith. I should stop procrastinating and do the same.


Likewise here. I promised myself that I'd find a chip-and-pin solution by the time we visit friends outside London in May.

Glad to see people having success here; until someone mentioned Andrews and SDFCU, I'd just about given up on finding a card.

Eric

The fine print:

I tried SDFCU rather than Andrews because I saw some negative comments about the application process at Andrews. SDFCU were very good. After I filled out the online application they called to explain the rest of the process. I did put $2k in a savings account.

To join, you need to select the affiliation to American Consumer Council or some such organization. Membership is free if you open the CU account. You do not have to do anything else about joining other than open the account.

The credit card application is a real application. You have to submit paystubs or tax returns. They do the proper due diligence.

Keith


Like Keith's comments, I cannot recommend Andrews FCU. Many barriers to opening the account depending on snail mail, etc. I understand they are being careful, but I felt like I was back in 1975 again. I would wait until USAA starts issuing a chip & pin at the first of 2013, or someone else that is more mainstream.

_D_


Update...just received my nice new USAA Chip & Pin card. If you have an existing USAA MC they will change it for you.
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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby umfundi » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:44 am

Update...just received my nice new USAA Chip & Pin card. If you have an existing USAA MC they will change it for you.


8-) 8-)

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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby VictoriaF » Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:35 pm

umfundi wrote:I decided I was getting mostly nowhere with BofA in terms of Chip+PIN, so I joined SDFCU. I also looked at Andrews FCU, but their website has a glitch or two. Along the way, I joined ACC (American Consumer Council) for free. That is my affiliation.

Opened up accounts at SDFCU online, no problem.
...
Keith


I filled SDFCU's online application on 23 December and still have not heard from them back.

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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby etarini » Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:50 pm

Victoria wrote:I filled SDFCU's online application on 23 December and still have not heard from them back.

My wife and I printed, signed, and sent the application Priority Mail and it went out December 17. It was listed as "Out for Delivery" on December 19 from the Alexandria, VA, post office, but unfortunately the last entry in the delivery confirmation chronology says "Delivery status not updated" at 11:43 p.m. that night. I guess I have to presume they received it, but I haven't heard back in any case.

I'll definitely post when I get a response.

Eric
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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby VictoriaF » Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:54 pm

etarini wrote:
Victoria wrote:I filled SDFCU's online application on 23 December and still have not heard from them back.

My wife and I printed, signed, and sent the application Priority Mail and it went out December 17. It was listed as "Out for Delivery" on December 19 from the Alexandria, VA, post office, but unfortunately the last entry in the delivery confirmation chronology says "Delivery status not updated" at 11:43 p.m. that night. I guess I have to presume they received it, but I haven't heard back in any case.

I'll definitely post when I get a response.

Eric

Thank you, Eric.

I suppose we should wait until they clear the holiday backlog. When (if) I get a response, I will also post it here.

Victoria
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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby Diogenes » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:10 am

I have received my SDFCU account and received my chip Visa within two weeks or so. I am impressed by their service thus far, and range and depth of what they offer on the site.

With the SDFCU card, and the new chip and pin card (Mastercard) I converted at USAA, I am in good shape for my next extended trip. I was also able to link the SDFCU account to my USAA checking account easily. Using a USAA atm card overseas is great as they rebate international atm fees. Currently they only issue a MC chip and pin, so the SDFCU Visa is a natural backup.

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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby umfundi » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:25 am

Diogenes wrote:I have received my SDFCU account and received my chip Visa within two weeks or so. I am impressed by their service thus far, and range and depth of what they offer on the site.

With the SDFCU card, and the new chip and pin card (Mastercard) I converted at USAA, I am in good shape for my next extended trip. I was also able to link the SDFCU account to my USAA checking account easily. Using a USAA atm card overseas is great as they rebate international atm fees. Currently they only issue a MC chip and pin, so the SDFCU Visa is a natural backup.

_D_


Great! Let us know how it goes.

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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby Polar_Ice » Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:45 pm

USAA requires you to have a trip planned before requesting one. Also they said you will have to register your trip online or it will not work. They need to change the policy of having to register your trip for it work. It is even more secure than the standard USAA MC with a PIN and you don't have to register the standard one to work on trips.
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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby ladders11 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:05 pm

TheGreyingDuke wrote:One further complication... to make the most economical use of a chip plus PIN credit card outside of the US, you would need a bank that does not charge foreign transaction fees. I realized that my "no foreign transaction fee" card (Capital One) and my "chip card" (USBank) are with different vendors!

Are there vendors that combine both attributes?

Bank of America Travel Rewards Visa.

EMV & no FTF.

However, it is Chip & Signature. I might be wrong. But, better than nothing, no? For me I already had a card there and just asked to convert it so I didn't need a new account. I can't recommend BofA by any means, but so far this has fit the bill for me.
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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby umfundi » Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:29 pm

ladders11 wrote:
TheGreyingDuke wrote:One further complication... to make the most economical use of a chip plus PIN credit card outside of the US, you would need a bank that does not charge foreign transaction fees. I realized that my "no foreign transaction fee" card (Capital One) and my "chip card" (USBank) are with different vendors!

Are there vendors that combine both attributes?

Bank of America Travel Rewards Visa.

EMV & no FTF.

However, it is Chip & Signature. I might be wrong. But, better than nothing, no? For me I already had a card there and just asked to convert it so I didn't need a new account. I can't recommend BofA by any means, but so far this has fit the bill for me.


Does your card have a visible chip on the front? See my photo upthread.

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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby Diogenes » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:27 pm

Polar_Ice wrote:USAA requires you to have a trip planned before requesting one. Also they said you will have to register your trip online or it will not work. They need to change the policy of having to register your trip for it work. It is even more secure than the standard USAA MC with a PIN and you don't have to register the standard one to work on trips.



This is incorrect. When you register a notification of a planned trip on the USAA site it gives you the option to receive the new card. It matters not if you take that trip, another trip, or no trip at all, you will still get the card. It is just a means of staging the rollout of this card to those who actually might use it first. I received mine a couple of weeks ago, and have already used it without an connection to any actual planned trip. By the way, the new card will have your same MC number.

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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby Polar_Ice » Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:52 pm

Diogenes wrote:
Polar_Ice wrote:USAA requires you to have a trip planned before requesting one. Also they said you will have to register your trip online or it will not work. They need to change the policy of having to register your trip for it work. It is even more secure than the standard USAA MC with a PIN and you don't have to register the standard one to work on trips.



This is incorrect. When you register a notification of a planned trip on the USAA site it gives you the option to receive the new card. It matters not if you take that trip, another trip, or no trip at all, you will still get the card. It is just a means of staging the rollout of this card to those who actually might use it first. I received mine a couple of weeks ago, and have already used it without an connection to any actual planned trip. By the way, the new card will have your same MC number.

_D_


So it is correct. You had to register a trip to get the card. This information was given to me by a supervisor. You have used it overseas on a chip and PIN reader and input a PIN and it worked without registering the trip? I was told they could not assure me the card would work overseas unless the trip was registered online at this time.
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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby hansp » Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:28 pm

PenFed is now giving the option to get a chip & pin card when you apply (no additional cost). Just got a cash rewards visa from them that has a chip
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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby umfundi » Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:50 pm

hansp wrote:PenFed is now giving the option to get a chip & pin card when you apply (no additional cost). Just got a cash rewards visa from them that has a chip


It looks like this?

viewtopic.php?p=1548690#p1548690

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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby Diogenes » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:22 am

Polar_Ice wrote:
Diogenes wrote:
Polar_Ice wrote:USAA requires you to have a trip planned before requesting one. Also they said you will have to register your trip online or it will not work. They need to change the policy of having to register your trip for it work. It is even more secure than the standard USAA MC with a PIN and you don't have to register the standard one to work on trips.



This is incorrect. When you register a notification of a planned trip on the USAA site it gives you the option to receive the new card. It matters not if you take that trip, another trip, or no trip at all, you will still get the card. It is just a means of staging the rollout of this card to those who actually might use it first. I received mine a couple of weeks ago, and have already used it without an connection to any actual planned trip. By the way, the new card will have your same MC number.

_D_


So it is correct. You had to register a trip to get the card. This information was given to me by a supervisor. You have used it overseas on a chip and PIN reader and input a PIN and it worked without registering the trip? I was told they could not assure me the card would work overseas unless the trip was registered online at this time.


Polar_Ice,

USAA does not track your travels. There is simply NO requirement that the charges must match any registered travel, this is a convenience notification. It is no different than notifications we would give USAA on the old MC when you are overseas. This type of card costs more to produce so they only want to send it to those who have apparent need, that is all. I have lived overseas for 75% of the past 6 years and used my USAA MC frequently without issue. The new Chip&Pin card you will get has the same number on it as the old one therefore no difference, to you or to USAA. It only has an extra security feature which makes it more useful in Europe. There everyone already has this type of card (except for Americans). You can imagine how crazy it would be for USAA to expect frequent travelers to continually log their travels. Nobody would do it. No CC company requires this. If there is a problem when you are traveling in a off the grid place, a simple call to them if a charge is refused takes care of it. Years ago I notified them that I am frequently in Europe and Africa, and that was the end of it. By the way, having the chip and pin means it is less likely there will be a fraudulent charge. If they have questions about charges due to their being diligent, they will send you an sms because they are a great company.
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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby hansp » Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:32 am

umfundi wrote:It looks like this?

viewtopic.php?p=1548690#p1548690


Yes, that's the chip in the PenFed card.

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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby Carl53 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:04 am

Received for Christmas a new hard case card wallet that is supposed to protect against the theft of information stored on the chips. I had to get rid of some extraneous stuff but find it holds everything I need to carry. Sorry I do not have a link.
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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby ladders11 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:06 pm

umfundi wrote:
ladders11 wrote:
TheGreyingDuke wrote:One further complication... to make the most economical use of a chip plus PIN credit card outside of the US, you would need a bank that does not charge foreign transaction fees. I realized that my "no foreign transaction fee" card (Capital One) and my "chip card" (USBank) are with different vendors!

Are there vendors that combine both attributes?

Bank of America Travel Rewards Visa.

EMV & no FTF.

However, it is Chip & Signature. I might be wrong. But, better than nothing, no? For me I already had a card there and just asked to convert it so I didn't need a new account. I can't recommend BofA by any means, but so far this has fit the bill for me.


Does your card have a visible chip on the front? See my photo upthread.

Keith

Yes Keith, it is a real visible chip. I also have a PayPass card, so I know what the difference is.
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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby umfundi » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:21 am

Carl53 wrote:Received for Christmas a new hard case card wallet that is supposed to protect against the theft of information stored on the chips. I had to get rid of some extraneous stuff but find it holds everything I need to carry. Sorry I do not have a link.

As I understand it:

1. The Chip+Pin card is passive: It cannot be read unless it is inserted in a reader and there is power to the gold contacts visible on the front. You do not need a shielded wallet.

2. Other cards (in the US?) may have RFID chips that can be read within some proximity distance. I have seen people recommend shielded wallets for these.

3. Your US Passport contains a proximity chip. I believe the data cannot be read unless the passport is open.

The security argument has at least two aspects:

A. Can the card be read without your knowledge or consent? And, by the way, what data does it contain?

B. In case of fraud, what is my liability? For traditional credit cards in the USA, your liability is usually zero to $50. The argument in Europe is that if there is fraud, the PIN must have been compromised, and that is the customer's fault. The cards are more secure, so liability shifts to the consumer. A similar situation in the USA is with debit cards that have less fraud protection for consumers, presumably because they require a PIN.

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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby etarini » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:17 pm

Back with an update: my wife and I were just approved for the SDFCU CHIP Visa Platinum Rewards credit card (with a 6.99% interest rate, not that I expect to carry a balance). Here's how it went:

Wednesday, Dec 19
- SDFCU received our printed and signed credit union membership application

Friday, Jan 11 (3 weeks, 2 days later)
- 8 a.m. - received a simple "Account Confirmation" email of credit union membership
- 11 a.m. - called customer service from work to ask "what's next?", mentioned I wanted to apply for the chip-and-pin credit card; friendly customer service lady offers to take application right then, over the phone. Called my wife, clicked her in and we're each asked a bunch of questions about jobs, income, etc. The most amusing part was when customer service lady asks my wife her annual income and she actually got the number right; later, she reminds me that when I was going over our taxes last weekend I had told her how much she made last year, but, hey, at least my sweetie remembered! (I do all the financial and tax stuff; she has little interest and practically falls asleep when I try to show her our numbers.) They email each of us a Docusign electronic signature request, where we will "sign" and "initial" different parts of the application and attach 2 pay stubs each.
- that evening I have no problems electronically signing the Docusign document and uploading pay stubs; when my wife tried, we repeatedly got stuck in a loop after she "signed" and uploaded pay stubs; we decide to call them Saturday morning for help. (Yes, Saturday customer service hours, 8-12.)

Saturday, Jan 12
- this customer service lady is also very helpful, but we're still stuck; my pc (XP, using IE 8) and email (Eudora) had no problems, my wife's pc (Windows 7,IE 9) and email (Thunderbird) aren't cooperating; customer service lady sends the documents to my email for my wife to sign; all is well! Customer service lady says "you should have an answer on Monday," to which I reply, "you don't mean THIS Monday, do you?" and she cheerfully says, yes, I should have an answer on Monday. I have to say she was VERY patient and helpful as we struggled and failed to get the Docusign working on my wife's computer. (The membership approval email said, "We commit to provide you with efficient and friendly service," and they certainly did.)

Monday, Jan 14
- 11 a.m - sure enough, I get the cedit card approval email from the Saturday lady, as well as a voice mail asking me to call them; it turns out they had 2 questions: 1) how much our monthly mortgage payment was - the Friday lady had already asked and we'd told her; the Saturday lady declines my offer to send a copy of the mortgage discharge), and 2) discrepancy between the address we'd given them and what the credit report had. I confirmed our current address and made a note to self to do the all-three-credit-reports thing soon. We've lived here 9 years - not a big confidence builder regarding the accuracy of credit bureau information.

Customer service lady says we should get our cards in 7-10 days!

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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby umfundi » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:44 pm

I had trouble with the electronic signature also. I printed and filled out the documents, scanned and e-mailed them, and snail mailed the originals. They were happy with e-mailed copies of my tax returns. (Self employed: No pay stubs.)

They have a rigorous process, but were very helpful and pleasant to get me through it.

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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby killjoy2012 » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:19 am

hansp wrote:PenFed is now giving the option to get a chip & pin card when you apply (no additional cost). Just got a cash rewards visa from them that has a chip


If you get a chance to use it in Europe, please report back on how it went. I already have a PenFed Visa, so this may be a convenient option to upgrade to a chipped card.

I can tell you that PenFed is a pain when it comes to foreign travel notifications though. I was in 7 Scandinavian countries over a 2 week period last July. I called PenFed in June to notify of them of my schedule & destinations. Recalled them a couple days before I left just to make sure they had my travel notice on file. Arrived in Copenhagen - card wouldn't work at any (multiple) stores. Called them a couple days later during the trip using Skype on my iPhone over wireless, they apologized and said they reapplied it... card still failed to work the remainder of the trip. Luckily I had my Captial One card too.. and a 3rd as a backup, but just FYI.

As an aside, I've spent months of cumulative time traveling through most of the European countries & I never had a single problem using a standard US magnetic swipe card. This last trip to Scandinavia was probably the most "rigid" I've seen as every store requires a PIN to be entered for authentication, but my standard swipe card + PIN worked fine & was accepted everywhere.
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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby VictoriaF » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:10 pm

VictoriaF wrote:
etarini wrote:
Victoria wrote:I filled SDFCU's online application on 23 December and still have not heard from them back.

My wife and I printed, signed, and sent the application Priority Mail and it went out December 17. It was listed as "Out for Delivery" on December 19 from the Alexandria, VA, post office, but unfortunately the last entry in the delivery confirmation chronology says "Delivery status not updated" at 11:43 p.m. that night. I guess I have to presume they received it, but I haven't heard back in any case.

I'll definitely post when I get a response.

Eric

Thank you, Eric.

I suppose we should wait until they clear the holiday backlog. When (if) I get a response, I will also post it here.

Victoria


Establishing accounts and features at the SDFCU is taking me much more time than with my other financial institutions. After I have enrolled electronically, it took them 3 weeks to send me activation instructions. The activation initially failed because I used the password I specified during the enrollment, and the site required another one. After I diligently entered the wrong password several times, I got locked out. I had to call customer support, but that part was not too bad. The wait time was negligible, and the woman who spoke with me was competent.

Once my electronic access was established I wanted to add another institution for electronic fund transfers, and that too required an online request, trial transfers of small sums between the accounts, and an online verification of the transfers.

Now, that I have finally completed all these tedious steps I am ready to request the chip-and-pin card. But if I knew about all this hassle, I probably would have lived without SDFCU.

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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby umfundi » Wed May 29, 2013 3:05 pm

I have the SDFCU card. Some quibbles:

I went to Germany. The card was refused. SDFCU says you have to call them for each trip to get the card authorized for overseas use. (I will see what happens in Canada in a month or two.)

To get automatic payment of my credit card balance every month I had to print and mail them a form. You can only do one-time payments online.

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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby marbat » Wed May 29, 2013 3:35 pm

Just wanted to clear up a common misconception, as I do in all EMV-related threads: Chip and PIN is NOT the global interoperability standard. A combination of Chip and Signature and "No CVM" (No Cardholder Verification Method - essentially, the terminal doesn't prompt for a PIN or Signature) is. This standard will work just fine for 99% of instances, the notable exception being some older unattended acceptance terminals, like at some old train stations/gas stations. Chip and Signature is REQUIRED to be accepted at any attended terminal, and No CVM will work at the vast majority of unattended terminals. The industry is moving towards making No CVM required at ALL unattended terminals in the near future, at which point everything should work 100% of the time.

Source: I work for a major payment network (V/AXP/MA) and am heavily involved in EMV.

Keith: The reason your card was refused wasn't because the card was incompatible, it was because you tripped the issuing bank's fraud algorithms. Let them know when you plan on traveling internationally to avoid this.

Everyone else: Let me know if you have any questions. Media coverage on this topic is typically absolute garbage and perpetuates misconceptions, likely because the topic isn't particularly simple to comprehend.
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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby umfundi » Wed May 29, 2013 3:45 pm

marbat wrote:Keith: The reason your card was refused wasn't because the card was incompatible, it was because you tripped the issuing bank's fraud algorithms. Let them know when you plan on traveling internationally to avoid this.

marbat,

I know that, since I called SDFCU and they told me they need notice of every trip and the countries and dates. Since I travel abroad frequently, that is a little onerous. I asked for a blanket authorization for UK, France, Netherlands and DACH, they said no can do.

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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby VictoriaF » Thu May 30, 2013 1:11 pm

Here is my update on the SDFCU.

I have established an account back in January, as I described above. Then I had some problems with my login, and later with adding another financial institution for fund transfers. Then my password stopped working again and I was ignoring SDFCU for five months. Now, with my summer trips approaching I need this Chip and PIN thing.

Necessity is the mother of invention, and it's also an older sister of ending procrastination. And so on Tuesday, I called SDFCU and a kind woman helped me to reset my password. Once I was in, I asked her about Chip and PIN and she said that she could take my application over the phone. She did. On Wednesday, I received an email with documents I had to sign electronically, which I did. On Thursday (today) I received an email that my Chip and PIN application has been approved and the card will arrive shortly.

Once I get the card:
1. Can I / should I test it in the U.S. prior to my European trip?
2. Should I tell SDFCU where I will be using it in Europe?
3. Anything I should know about using the SDFCU Chip and PIN card in Europe?


Thanks!
Victoria
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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby VictoriaF » Thu May 30, 2013 1:22 pm

marbat wrote:Just wanted to clear up a common misconception, as I do in all EMV-related threads: Chip and PIN is NOT the global interoperability standard. A combination of Chip and Signature and "No CVM" (No Cardholder Verification Method - essentially, the terminal doesn't prompt for a PIN or Signature) is. This standard will work just fine for 99% of instances, the notable exception being some older unattended acceptance terminals, like at some old train stations/gas stations. Chip and Signature is REQUIRED to be accepted at any attended terminal, and No CVM will work at the vast majority of unattended terminals. The industry is moving towards making No CVM required at ALL unattended terminals in the near future, at which point everything should work 100% of the time.

Source: I work for a major payment network (V/AXP/MA) and am heavily involved in EMV.

Keith: The reason your card was refused wasn't because the card was incompatible, it was because you tripped the issuing bank's fraud algorithms. Let them know when you plan on traveling internationally to avoid this.

Everyone else: Let me know if you have any questions. Media coverage on this topic is typically absolute garbage and perpetuates misconceptions, likely because the topic isn't particularly simple to comprehend.


Marbat,

Thank you for offering to answer our questions. I am taking you up on your kind offer:

1. Is "Chip and PIN" the same thing as EMV?

2. You wrote: "A combination of Chip and Signature and "No CVM" (No Cardholder Verification Method - essentially, the terminal doesn't prompt for a PIN or Signature) is." I am confused, because "No CVM" means no PIN and no Signature, whereas "Chip and Signature" includes signature.

3. At attended terminals I will use Chip and Signature.
3.a What happens at old unattended terminals? Do they take the card with a Chip and do not ask for PIN? That would seem to pose some security risks.
3.b How are new unattended terminals different from the old unattended terminals?

4. I can tell SDFCU when I will be in Europe. But I may be using the card in several countries and not know in advance all of them. How important is it to be specific?

Victoria
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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby umfundi » Thu May 30, 2013 1:46 pm

VictoriaF wrote:Here is my update on the SDFCU.

Once I get the card:
1. Can I / should I test it in the U.S. prior to my European trip?
Yes. It works like a regular credit card.

2. Should I tell SDFCU where I will be using it in Europe?
Yes, you must call them and tell them the countries and the dates.

3. Anything I should know about using the SDFCU Chip and PIN card in Europe?
So far as I know, it is used in two ways:
a) It goes in the scanner / reader and you enter a PIN.
b) It gets read and they give you a receipt to sign.


Thanks!
Victoria


The acid test is using an automated machine (or even a person) to buy a train ticket at Schipol airport

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Re: I have a chip on my shoulder, but not in my card!

Postby VictoriaF » Thu May 30, 2013 1:49 pm

umfundi wrote:The acid test is using an automated machine (or even a person) to buy a train ticket at Schipol airport

Keith


Thank you, Keith. I will do my acid test at Flughafen Wien-Internetseite. If it does not work I will walk to Bratislava.

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