Tesla S

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Tesla S

Post by TomatoTomahto »

Congratulations BrandonBogle, that's awesome. Something that just occurred to me (I know, I'm slow on the uptake) is that purchasing a used Tesla (or other EV) will be less anxiety inducing than buying a used ICE vehicle. Unless it's been in an accident, or there are cosmetic (and visible) issues, there just aren't as many things that could be a problem down the road which aren't covered by a warranty.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
madbrain
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Re: Tesla S

Post by madbrain »

TomatoTomahto wrote:Congratulations BrandonBogle, that's awesome. Something that just occurred to me (I know, I'm slow on the uptake) is that purchasing a used Tesla (or other EV) will be less anxiety inducing than buying a used ICE vehicle. Unless it's been in an accident, or there are cosmetic (and visible) issues, there just aren't as many things that could be a problem down the road which aren't covered by a warranty.
Of course, there is the major one which is the Lion battery. Has Tesla made public the cost of an out-of-warranty battery replacement yet ?

The battery is warrantied for 8 years/unlimited miles, but they haven't made the model S for 8 years yet.
They may have some Roadsters with out of warranty batteries, though.

Also, on the certified pre-owned Tesla site, I didn't see any financing options. I didn't see a single used car below $50k in any region, so I would think many people would be financing.
airahcaz
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Re: Tesla S

Post by airahcaz »

madbrain wrote:
TomatoTomahto wrote:Congratulations BrandonBogle, that's awesome. Something that just occurred to me (I know, I'm slow on the uptake) is that purchasing a used Tesla (or other EV) will be less anxiety inducing than buying a used ICE vehicle. Unless it's been in an accident, or there are cosmetic (and visible) issues, there just aren't as many things that could be a problem down the road which aren't covered by a warranty.
Of course, there is the major one which is the Lion battery. Has Tesla made public the cost of an out-of-warranty battery replacement yet ?

The battery is warrantied for 8 years/unlimited miles, but they haven't made the model S for 8 years yet.
They may have some Roadsters with out of warranty batteries, though.

Also, on the certified pre-owned Tesla site, I didn't see any financing options. I didn't see a single used car below $50k in any region, so I would think many people would be financing.
And no Awd versions yet?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Tesla S

Post by BrandonBogle »

4nursebee wrote:BBOGLE, was the car local to you or does TSLA ship the car to your nearest center?
Mine is coming from DC; no transport fee either.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Tesla S

Post by BrandonBogle »

madbrain wrote:
TomatoTomahto wrote:Congratulations BrandonBogle, that's awesome. Something that just occurred to me (I know, I'm slow on the uptake) is that purchasing a used Tesla (or other EV) will be less anxiety inducing than buying a used ICE vehicle. Unless it's been in an accident, or there are cosmetic (and visible) issues, there just aren't as many things that could be a problem down the road which aren't covered by a warranty.
Of course, there is the major one which is the Lion battery. Has Tesla made public the cost of an out-of-warranty battery replacement yet ?

The battery is warrantied for 8 years/unlimited miles, but they haven't made the model S for 8 years yet.
They may have some Roadsters with out of warranty batteries, though.

Also, on the certified pre-owned Tesla site, I didn't see any financing options. I didn't see a single used car below $50k in any region, so I would think many people would be financing.
On the Tesla Motor Club forums, people have gotten quotes for $25k currently and expect to to move closer to $10k over the next few years as the gigafactory comes online.

As for anxiety, my anxiety came from spending 80k on a car that may quickly become obsolete because Tesla advances their models so quickly. At $60k, I figure a good chuck of the depreciation has occurred and while it will continue to depreciate, if I decide to hold this less than my usual 8-10 years, I come out better in this car than a new 70D that was considering earlier. If I could get a close to $10k discount on demo car in June (I walked away from a $9k discount demo car in March because of color), after the fed tax rebate, I would pay $18-19k more than I just did. That's a good chunk of money if the right demo car even shows up (btw, the demo cars having never been titled are eligible for the fed tax rebate, used cars are not).

Payment options are like a new Tesla, once you confirm and pay your deposit, you are asked if you will obtain Tesla financing, outside financing, or pay cash. You then proceed as needed.
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Re: Tesla S

Post by madbrain »

BrandonBogle wrote: On the Tesla Motor Club forums, people have gotten quotes for $25k currently and expect to to move closer to $10k over the next few years as the gigafactory comes online.
To me, until Tesla comes up with an official public price, it is a major impediment to buying the car, whether new or used, but much more so for the used model.
As for anxiety, my anxiety came from spending 80k on a car that may quickly become obsolete because Tesla advances their models so quickly. At $60k, I figure a good chuck of the depreciation has occurred and while it will continue to depreciate, if I decide to hold this less than my usual 8-10 years, I come out better in this car than a new 70D that was considering earlier. If I could get a close to $10k discount on demo car in June (I walked away from a $9k discount demo car in March because of color), after the fed tax rebate, I would pay $18-19k more than I just did. That's a good chunk of money if the right demo car even shows up (btw, the demo cars having never been titled are eligible for the fed tax rebate, used cars are not).
I would be very anxious about spending $80k on a car, period, let alone one that will become obsolete.
That said, even if it does become obsolete, I think you will be happy to drive the car for a long period of time.
Payment options are like a new Tesla, once you confirm and pay your deposit, you are asked if you will obtain Tesla financing, outside financing, or pay cash. You then proceed as needed.
Can you explain the terms of the Tesla financing ? I didn't see them on their CPO site.
I would think they would at least describe them before checking out and paying the deposit.

From what I heard, they have a buyback option on new cars ; do they have one for used cars too ?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Tesla S

Post by BrandonBogle »

madbrain wrote:
BrandonBogle wrote: On the Tesla Motor Club forums, people have gotten quotes for $25k currently and expect to to move closer to $10k over the next few years as the gigafactory comes online.
To me, until Tesla comes up with an official public price, it is a major impediment to buying the car, whether new or used, but much more so for the used model.
I don't think they have a "hidden" price for it, which would vary from one person to the next, but I agree that communication is NOT Tesla's strong suit in all matters, replacement battery included.
madbrain wrote: I would be very anxious about spending $80k on a car, period, let alone one that will become obsolete.
That said, even if it does become obsolete, I think you will be happy to drive the car for a long period of time.
Well every car depreciates and new features or improvements come out. My first car was a basic transportation appliance. My second was much more utilitarian. My third gave me some luxuries, but was also better suited for colder climates. Each of these cars have been under my belt (or my families as we pass around cars sometimes) for 8-12 years. The Tesla will be my fourth and its oriented more around enjoying driving and road trips. While I miss out on Autopilot that I really wanted, I would NOT be surprised if Tesla improves it in 2016 or 2017. I figure I could shoot for 8 year ownership and if I have any concerns at 4 years when the bumper-to-bumper will run out (though I could get the extended warranty), I could always trade up to a slightly used Autopilot Gen 1 car or whatever is great then. Plus, at that point, I should be further along in my other life goals that this price point would not make me anxious. Prior to looking at the Tesla, I was looking at getting a used Infinity M ($40s) or used MB S-class (high $40s - low $50s). From there, stretching for the Tesla at $57k is much easier to digest than the Tesla for $75k (assuming I buy the 70D, configured how I want it, and get $10k off for buying a demo). If the car becomes obsolete, then so be it, but generally speaking, the depreciation on a 2 year old car for the next 4 years is better than a new car for the next 4 years. Meanwhile, I am not getting rid of my current vehicle and keeping it for hauling, loaning to family, etc.
madbrain wrote: Can you explain the terms of the Tesla financing ? I didn't see them on their CPO site.
I would think they would at least describe them before checking out and paying the deposit.
Tesla does not do in-house financing (to my knowledge) and the process seems to work much like a traditional "dealership". I filled out a credit application and I am to get offers from their partner lending institutions within 48 hours. On the ordering system that you use to follow the car's build/ship progress, there are 3 buttons for how you will pay for the car: Tesla financing, Outside financing, and Cash. None of them do anything really, so I guess its just a way for them to know what to expect. I submitting the app online for Tesla financing and was told I'll hear something via email in 24-48 hours. I'm not holding my breath as I forgot I have a credit freeze on my file. I think on Monday things will clear up a bit as someone actually gets assigned and works my purchase - I submitted the purchase just before midnight on Friday night. In the meantime, I've gotten the process started elsewhere as, for instance, Digital Federal Credit Union is offering 1.49% up to 65 months, which is better than the tax hit I would get to pull out of my taxable investments.
madbrain wrote: From what I heard, they have a buyback option on new cars ; do they have one for used cars too ?
This applies to new and demo cars if you use a Tesla financing partner. I haven't explored the details as it does not apply to the CPO cars.
oragne lovre
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Re: Tesla S

Post by oragne lovre »

TomatoTomahto wrote:
DFWinvestor wrote:As for dual chargers----they only benefit you when you want to charge >40 amps, except for at Superchargers where single and dual chargers charge at the same speed. So the only circumstances where you might benefit from a dual charger, assuming you don't have a HPWC at home, would be when you are out on the road and have access to a HPWC elsewhere. If that happens you could charge a bit faster if you have dual chargers.
Thank you; I should research this more :D I actually thought, in my ignorance, that the dual charger would charge more quickly on the road when I find a Supercharger, and it was going to be my reason to have it.

I think I'll have your setup. 40 Amp and single charger.
I got to remember this observation when setting up the charger in my garage.
Thanks
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airahcaz
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Re: Tesla S

Post by airahcaz »

Test drove the 70D, wow! Refuse to buy new - ton of used rear wheel drive S models on the lot.

Guess I have to wait at least 18 months or longer to get a decent price on a used 70D? or maybe used Model X (or any AWD).
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Tesla S

Post by BrandonBogle »

airahcaz wrote:Test drove the 70D, wow! Refuse to buy new - ton of used rear wheel drive S models on the lot.

Guess I have to wait at least 18 months or longer to get a decent price on a used 70D? or maybe used Model X (or any AWD).
You can see about an inventory 70D. They will likely have 100 - 4k miles on them (those sometimes you can nab an inventory vehicle with more miles) and you get a discount of 1% for each month since manufactured + $1 per mile on the odometer. I almost bought a 85 back in March that had an $9k off. I held off b/c it wasn't the right interior color. Note, inventory cars (unlike used ones) have not been titled previously and thus, are still eligible for the federal tax credit. Additionally, some states have generous options. WA for instance (until 7/1) does not charge tax on never-titled (new and inventory) EVs. Colorado I believe (or maybe it was Utah?) will provide the state credit for even a used EV, just as long as it has never been titled or registered in the state previously. Then of course, there are the CPOs like what I bought. Those restart the warranty and, like new and inventory, you get 4 years/50k miles bumper-to-bumper. If you decide to go that route, I would wait a bit though. In the week since the CPO site went live, all the lower-priced cars have been sold and the ones added to CPO stock have higher prices.
DFWinvestor
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Re: Tesla S

Post by DFWinvestor »

BrandonBogle wrote:
airahcaz wrote:Test drove the 70D, wow! Refuse to buy new - ton of used rear wheel drive S models on the lot.

Guess I have to wait at least 18 months or longer to get a decent price on a used 70D? or maybe used Model X (or any AWD).
You can see about an inventory 70D.
This is what I would do. Waiting on a pre owned 70D would be torture:) There won't be many available for quite some time.

I am eight months in since I bought my S85, still having a blast every day. Planning a trip all the way to the west coast this summer.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Tesla S

Post by BrandonBogle »

4nursebee wrote:BBOGLE, was the car local to you or does TSLA ship the car to your nearest center?
Sorry, I missed this post somehow. You can pick up at the location that has the car for $0, or they ship to you (nearest center, or your house if the nearest center is over 160 miles away) for $500, $1k, or $1,500 depending on distance. I was in the $500 distance and one of my friends across town bought on that was a couple hours further away and he is paying $1k for transport. I know people in CA who bought cars in NY and are paying $1.5k for the cross-country shipment.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Tesla S

Post by BrandonBogle »

BrandonBogle wrote:OMG! OMG! OMG!!!!!!!!!

The Tesla CPO website went live tonight and I glanced around. Found a nice 2013 Dolphin Gray 85 w/ Tech and Air Suspension, Panoramic moonroof, Black Leather Seats, and Obece Wood Gloss interior. No autopilot, no folding mirrors, no parking sensors, no AWD, no alcantara headliner, no fog lights, no upgraded stereo, but a full, 4-year/50k warranty from Tesla, the balance of the 8-year/unlimited mile battery/drivetrain warranty for $57,200 + tax. I reached out to my sales specialist, he verified the details of the car in their system, and I pulled the trigger. Now to scramble to get everything ready b/c I was originally waiting till June!
So I got the car on Thursday and it has been an absolute dream. They did a great job reconditioning the car and outside of some clear coat superficial scratches/swirls, the car looks amazing. The detailing at Tesla has never won any awards and I plan to get the car paint corrected and coated anyway, so the superficial marks didn't worry me. The experience in driving a Tesla is like no other and even a 2013 is absolutely fantastic. I let it slip at work that I was getting the car and my manager was more excited than anyone else. He is in a different city and is planning to come so he can check it out. I've never seen/heard him so excited. We spent a couple hours yesterday chatting about the car. I've already had two people on the highway stick their heads out and take pictures of the car, and a third make a u-turn to come back up beside me at a light and check out the car. I had family in town when I got the car, so we all got to spend some time driving around and feeling quite the different over our previous Toyotas and Hondas, even our Lexus. I am so happy with the decision. Thank you Bogleheads! If it wasn't for everything I have learned here, I would never would have been able to get "the car that Jack bought!" :P
airahcaz
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Re: Tesla S

Post by airahcaz »

BrandonBogle wrote:
BrandonBogle wrote:OMG! OMG! OMG!!!!!!!!!

The Tesla CPO website went live tonight and I glanced around. Found a nice 2013 Dolphin Gray 85 w/ Tech and Air Suspension, Panoramic moonroof, Black Leather Seats, and Obece Wood Gloss interior. No autopilot, no folding mirrors, no parking sensors, no AWD, no alcantara headliner, no fog lights, no upgraded stereo, but a full, 4-year/50k warranty from Tesla, the balance of the 8-year/unlimited mile battery/drivetrain warranty for $57,200 + tax. I reached out to my sales specialist, he verified the details of the car in their system, and I pulled the trigger. Now to scramble to get everything ready b/c I was originally waiting till June!
So I got the car on Thursday and it has been an absolute dream. They did a great job reconditioning the car and outside of some clear coat superficial scratches/swirls, the car looks amazing. The detailing at Tesla has never won any awards and I plan to get the car paint corrected and coated anyway, so the superficial marks didn't worry me. The experience in driving a Tesla is like no other and even a 2013 is absolutely fantastic. I let it slip at work that I was getting the car and my manager was more excited than anyone else. He is in a different city and is planning to come so he can check it out. I've never seen/heard him so excited. We spent a couple hours yesterday chatting about the car. I've already had two people on the highway stick their heads out and take pictures of the car, and a third make a u-turn to come back up beside me at a light and check out the car. I had family in town when I got the car, so we all got to spend some time driving around and feeling quite the different over our previous Toyotas and Hondas, even our Lexus. I am so happy with the decision. Thank you Bogleheads! If it wasn't for everything I have learned here, I would never would have been able to get "the car that Jack bought!" :P
Cool. What Lexus did you have and how do you compare the ride, finish, and other characteristics to the S?
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Tesla S

Post by BrandonBogle »

airahcaz wrote: Cool. What Lexus did you have and how do you compare the ride, finish, and other characteristics to the S?
My mother has a Lexus IS. Fun drive and smooth drive. The seats are very supple and provide more support than the 1.0 seats I got in my Tesla (Tesla has since released 1.5 that match hers and 2.0 seats that are even better). The IS is very smooth, has fun handling while still being comfort-focused, and is exceptionally quiet. The Tesla has no vibration or motor noise to intrude in the cabin, but road noise is louder in the Tesla. I've been told most of this is because I have the Goodyear tires and other brands are significantly quieter. Either way, it is quieter and smoother than my previous daily driver, a Toyota 4Runner. Also, I'm 6 foot and the IS is a little cramped. Much more comfortable in that regards in the Tesla.
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Re: Tesla S

Post by sschullo »

BrandonBogle wrote:
airahcaz wrote: Cool. What Lexus did you have and how do you compare the ride, finish, and other characteristics to the S?
The Tesla has no vibration or motor noise to intrude in the cabin, but road noise is louder in the Tesla. I've been told most of this is because I have the Goodyear tires and other brands are significantly quieter. Either way, it is quieter and smoother than my previous daily driver, a Toyota 4Runner. Also, I'm 6 foot and the IS is a little cramped. Much more comfortable in that regards in the Tesla.
Thanks, I was wondering about the road noise in our Tesla. It is loud for an expensive car, especially sitting in the back seat. We have gotten two flat tires. We think it was vandalism, but the tire pro doubted that because of the steel belted protection. One cannot just put two nails until the tires while parked and run over the nails. The pro said that the car has to be going 60 miles an hour to puncture those tires. Still, two nails, one in each of the rear tires in the middle????
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airahcaz
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Re: Tesla S

Post by airahcaz »

sschullo wrote:
BrandonBogle wrote:
airahcaz wrote: Cool. What Lexus did you have and how do you compare the ride, finish, and other characteristics to the S?
The Tesla has no vibration or motor noise to intrude in the cabin, but road noise is louder in the Tesla. I've been told most of this is because I have the Goodyear tires and other brands are significantly quieter. Either way, it is quieter and smoother than my previous daily driver, a Toyota 4Runner. Also, I'm 6 foot and the IS is a little cramped. Much more comfortable in that regards in the Tesla.
Thanks, I was wondering about the road noise in our Tesla. It is loud for an expensive car, especially sitting in the back seat. We have gotten two flat tires. We think it was vandalism, but the tire pro doubted that because of the steel belted protection. One cannot just put two nails until the tires while parked and run over the nails. The pro said that the car has to be going 60 miles an hour to puncture those tires. Still, two nails, one in each of the rear tires in the middle????
Would love to hear from a Lexus LS owner (current or previous) for comparison to the S.
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Re: Tesla S

Post by jdb »

airahcaz wrote:
sschullo wrote:
BrandonBogle wrote:
airahcaz wrote:

Would love to hear from a Lexus LS owner (current or previous) for comparison to the S.
I can respond to that query. Have had the Lexus LS 460 since 2010, now with 65000 miles. Have had Tesla Model S since 2012, now with 30000 miles. Interestingly the LS 460 got Consumer Reports highest point total ever in 2010 until eclipsed by the Model S in 2013. The Lexus LS is a great solid car, comparable in my experience to the Mercedes S class, just less expensive. But the Model S is such a joy to drive, and probably safest car ever built, no comparison in driving experience. My wife was driving the Lexus but now has adopted the Model S. A happy wife means a happy life. :happy We are planning to trade in the Lexus for the Tesla Model X hopefully later this year.
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Re: Tesla S

Post by airahcaz »

jdb wrote:
airahcaz wrote:
sschullo wrote:
BrandonBogle wrote:
airahcaz wrote:

Would love to hear from a Lexus LS owner (current or previous) for comparison to the S.
I can respond to that query. Have had the Lexus LS 460 since 2010, now with 65000 miles. Have had Tesla Model S since 2012, now with 30000 miles. Interestingly the LS 460 got Consumer Reports highest point total ever in 2010 until eclipsed by the Model S in 2013. The Lexus LS is a great solid car, comparable in my experience to the Mercedes S class, just less expensive. But the Model S is such a joy to drive, and probably safest car ever built, no comparison in driving experience. My wife was driving the Lexus but now has adopted the Model S. A happy wife means a happy life. :happy We are planning to trade in the Lexus for the Tesla Model X hopefully later this year.
What brings a higher "joy" via the S vs LS?
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Re: Tesla S

Post by jdb »

airahcaz wrote:
jdb wrote:
airahcaz wrote:
sschullo wrote:
BrandonBogle wrote:[

What brings a higher "joy" via the S vs LS?

The driving experience. Can't describe in words, only my favorite auto reviewer Dan Neil from WSJ can do that. Need to take a test drive in both vehicles, then will understand.
airahcaz
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Re: Tesla S

Post by airahcaz »

BrandonBogle wrote:[

The driving experience. Can't describe in words, only my favorite auto reviewer Dan Neil from WSJ can do that. Need to take a test drive in both vehicles, then will understand.
I have. I've also owned the original LS. My dream luxury CPO car has now migrated from the LS to the S cause I'm a fan of electric and not gas, but was curious.
From a ride perspective, LS is pretty top notch.
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amitb00
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Re: Tesla S

Post by amitb00 »

Welcome to Tesla family. Car is amazing and a different experience altogether. I am sure you already visit Tesla forum. They are very helpful like Bogles.
Enjoy
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Re: Tesla S

Post by etm »

madbrain wrote:
BrandonBogle wrote: On the Tesla Motor Club forums, people have gotten quotes for $25k currently and expect to to move closer to $10k over the next few years as the gigafactory comes online.
To me, until Tesla comes up with an official public price, it is a major impediment to buying the car, whether new or used, but much more so for the used model.
As for anxiety, my anxiety came from spending 80k on a car that may quickly become obsolete because Tesla advances their models so quickly. At $60k, I figure a good chuck of the depreciation has occurred and while it will continue to depreciate, if I decide to hold this less than my usual 8-10 years, I come out better in this car than a new 70D that was considering earlier. If I could get a close to $10k discount on demo car in June (I walked away from a $9k discount demo car in March because of color), after the fed tax rebate, I would pay $18-19k more than I just did. That's a good chunk of money if the right demo car even shows up (btw, the demo cars having never been titled are eligible for the fed tax rebate, used cars are not).
I would be very anxious about spending $80k on a car, period, let alone one that will become obsolete.
That said, even if it does become obsolete, I think you will be happy to drive the car for a long period of time.
Payment options are like a new Tesla, once you confirm and pay your deposit, you are asked if you will obtain Tesla financing, outside financing, or pay cash. You then proceed as needed.
Can you explain the terms of the Tesla financing ? I didn't see them on their CPO site.
I would think they would at least describe them before checking out and paying the deposit.

From what I heard, they have a buyback option on new cars ; do they have one for used cars too ?
Well, by way of analogy there have been really no battery failures with the Chevy Volt. If an individual cell goes bad the dealer can replace that individual cell. There really is no such thing as the "battery". What you have are hundreds of cells, case, control modules, thermal management systems, etc. Like the Volt I'm sure the Tesla's are all modular, so you never really replace the whole "battery" at one time. The cost of a replacement battery for the Volt (actual GM part number) is about 3,000 right now. But that's if you return your old battery--I mean the entire thing is dropped out of your car. If your battery is destroyed in an accident and can't be swapped it's much, much more expensive. The battery in an EV also doesn't really stop working. In the Volt at 150k miles you can expect to have about 80% of your original capacity. I'm sure there's some type of degradation with a Tesla. So as long as you don't mind your capacity slowly decreasing over time there's no reason to think about replacing the battery, as I doubt many people keep their cars past 200k miles. By the way, there's a Volt I know of that has 225k miles on it. No battery problems with this owner. My in-laws have the original Prius with 180k miles. They are still on the original battery and getting good hybrid miles. I think once you reach 150k to 200k miles on an EV you really won't care about replacing the battery because you'll be on to a new EV, which will be orders of magnitude greater in capability than your current car.
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Re: Tesla S

Post by BrandonBogle »

etm wrote:The battery in an EV also doesn't really stop working. In the Volt at 150k miles you can expect to have about 80% of your original capacity. I'm sure there's some type of degradation with a Tesla. So as long as you don't mind your capacity slowly decreasing over time there's no reason to think about replacing the battery, as I doubt many people keep their cars past 200k miles.
My 2013 with 31k miles still charges to 265 miles on a full charge, 255 miles on a 95% charge, and 239 miles on a 90% charge. If there is any degradation, it's neglible so far.
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Re: Tesla S

Post by protagonist »

I'm not likely to buy one of these in the near future. Especially because I tend to keep my cars for a long time, and a few years from now, when all my buddies are cruising along watching videos in their self-driving cars, I would feel like a fool stuck in traffic and cursing behind the wheel of my old fossil $100000 Tesla S. Until I no longer need a steering wheel I will probably just keep my Honda Element (laughing)

On the other hand, this invention of Musk could turn into something truly game-changing as sometime in the future we may have self-driving homes, off the grid. We can only hope. http://www.iflscience.com/technology/te ... ssil-fuels

The thing I like most about Musk is that he is forcing industry in general to innovate. The impact on many levels could potentially save us.
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Leif
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Re: Tesla S

Post by Leif »

etm wrote:... as I doubt many people keep their cars past 200k miles.
You don't know Bogleheads.
etm wrote: I think once you reach 150k to 200k miles on an EV you really won't care about replacing the battery because you'll be on to a new EV, which will be orders of magnitude greater in capability than your current car.
I think I'll wait for that orders of magnitude greater capability EV.
Last edited by Leif on Sun May 17, 2015 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Tesla S

Post by TomatoTomahto »

Leif wrote:I think I'll wait for that orders or magnitude greater capability EV.
Many of the improvements are software related, and are thus available to older cars. If they have the sensors, which many Tesla cars have had for some time, a wireless upgrade in June is scheduled to increase the autonomous driving options.

Even battery upgrades, while not cheap, are possible. The labor involved is minimal (which is why they are testing 3 minute battery swaps in CA as an alternative to charging), but the batteries are expensive.

Electric vehicles are intrinsically simpler mechanically.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Tesla S

Post by BrandonBogle »

protagonist wrote:I'm not likely to buy one of these in the near future. Especially because I tend to keep my cars for a long time, and a few years from now, when all my buddies are cruising along watching videos in their self-driving cars, I would feel like a fool stuck in traffic and cursing behind the wheel of my old fossil $100000 Tesla S. Until I no longer need a steering wheel I will probably just keep my Honda Element (laughing)
Before I really looked into the Model S, I felt the same way too. I was going to wait for the Model 3 (starts at 35k), which is similarly sized to a MB C-Class or BMW 3-Series. But new, you could be the 240 mile range 70D (AWD) starting at 68k (assumes fed tax incentive, state may also offer an incentive). Then you have the CPOs like mine which are a good bit even less, while being loaded with options vs. the base 70D. I almost bought a loaded 85 (RWD) back in March for $75k (again, after fed tax incentive), but it wasn't the right color. The one I got now has more options than that one.

Just note, the car is not for everyone. But it shouldn't simply be dismissed as a $100k car when it can be had for significantly less.
jimbowman
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Re: Tesla S

Post by jimbowman »

For those interested in the CPO's, HankLloydRight over on the Tesla Motors Club forum made a database that is sortable and IMO is easier to navigate than Tesla's site.

http://logmysc.com/cpo-reports.php
etm
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Re: Tesla S

Post by etm »

Leif wrote:
etm wrote:... as I doubt many people keep their cars past 200k miles.
You don't know Bogleheads.
etm wrote: I think once you reach 150k to 200k miles on an EV you really won't care about replacing the battery because you'll be on to a new EV, which will be orders of magnitude greater in capability than your current car.
I think I'll wait for that orders of magnitude greater capability EV.
That's fine. Just don't make the perfect the enemy of the better. The EV experience is drastically better than that of an ICE vehicle and right now you can pretty much eliminate your gas usage with current Tesla technology. The only downside to Tesla is that if you're a super road trip type of person (as I am) the range of their cars and the number of super charger stations might not be enough for you. That's right now why I use a Volt. A few times a year I tend to drive far away from the current super charger locations when on long trips.
tecmage
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Re: Tesla S

Post by tecmage »

So I've had mine for a week now. The car I upgraded from was 13 years old and literally falling apart.

So far I love it. I did a road trip that required charging through Olympic National Forest. Worked out really well, just a little more planning needed before taking the trip and making sure breakfast and lunch lined up with the charging.

It might not hold up to the highest end luxury cars, the interior needs a little more opulence to reach that level. Some stupid decisions on the interior make me give the car a 9.8 out of 10. Best car I've ever owned and will be my commuting car for a long long time. If I keep this car for 10-12 years I still will have no range issues for my daily driving with any conceivable range loss.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Tesla S

Post by BrandonBogle »

Congrats tecmage!
jdb
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Re: Tesla S

Post by jdb »

Yes, congrats tecmage. Now with over 30K miles on the Model S and it still exceeds expectations. Love the software updates every couple months. Looking forward to hopefully getting Model X before year end.
airahcaz
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Re: Tesla S

Post by airahcaz »

Which is smoother, Model S or Lexus LS?
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course. (Plagiarized, but worth stealing)
squirm
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Re: Tesla S

Post by squirm »

If you have the money and buying a Tesla won't put you in financial dire, go for it. We all only live once. Didn't read the entire thread, if you bought the Tesla hope you're enjoying it. Try out a super charging station, if you can.
squirm
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Re: Tesla S

Post by squirm »

Etm, I like the volt too because of the range issue, I'm thinking about getting a 2016.
4nursebee
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Re: Tesla S

Post by 4nursebee »

For those of you here that have purchased a model S or reserved an X, I am hoping you will share with me your situation, please feel free to respond via PM, and correspondence will be kept confidential.

My situation and thoughts.
We can FIRE now but are working until one of us is 59.5 in 1.5 yrs
We have roughly 30x expenses in retirement accounts.
We value renewable energy, have solar on our house, room for more panels to charge the car.
Retirement plans include riding our bikes on the best bike trails in each state, travelling in a Model S.
We have a car that could trade or sell for 10-15K.
Perhaps 15 K cash, but this is emergency fund.
I'd consider pulling money out of Roth IRA, the contributions, to make a sizable down payment. I do expect that Roth holding will grow in excess of interest rate we would otherwise pay.
Ceteris paribus, at 59.5 our lifestyle spending can increase with great confidence. We could FIRE now and maintain.
I picture buying an S to enjoy for now as a new car, then travel the US in it for fun when we quit working.

Pro: It is a nice car.
It is a very safe car.
It is an environmentally friendly car,
We have enough money for FIRE.
It would be nice to splurge.

Cons: From a cash based utilitarian perspective it can't be justified.
I read a lot on here about experiences add value to life more than things.
Owning such a vehicle would be more ostentatious than we have ever been.

Your thoughts on this?
Where does your Tesla fit into net worth/ annual income?
Thanks
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ualdriver
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Re: Tesla S

Post by ualdriver »

4nursebee wrote:For those of you here that have purchased a model S or reserved an X, I am hoping you will share with me your situation, please feel free to respond via PM, and correspondence will be kept confidential.

Pro: It is a nice car.
It is a very safe car.
It is an environmentally friendly car,
We have enough money for FIRE.
It would be nice to splurge.

Cons: From a cash based utilitarian perspective it can't be justified.
I read a lot on here about experiences add value to life more than things.
Owning such a vehicle would be more ostentatious than we have ever been.

Your thoughts on this?
Where does your Tesla fit into net worth/ annual income?
Thanks
I think you have probably seen threads with similar concerns. When is a watch too expensive? When is a house too expensive? It's a "squishy" subject in that there is no right answer. All I can do I guess is use myself as an example.

First off, I'm a "car guy." Driving the Tesla makes me happy because I enjoy a fine car. If I didn't really enjoy cars, I'd be driving whatever highly reliable used car Consumer Reports or JD Power says is reliable and safe. So because I really enjoy my Tesla, I'm happy to pay the premium. This purchase does not make stereotypical "Boglehead" financial sense.

Personally, I wouldn't buy a new car if I could avoid it. There are tons of used Teslas on places like eBay and cars.com that are nicely depreciated. That's the direction I would go, especially if you're concerned about the high cost of purchasing a Model S. Most Tesla owners are "car people" themselves and take great care of their cars so personally between that and the warranty I wouldn't worry about purchasing used. Further, you can buy used Teslas directly from the Tesla website now, too.

Can I afford a Tesla based upon our household income/net worth? Yes I guess in the sense that I don't have any debt and pay cash for everything, including the Tesla. If it were me, I wouldn't go into debt to buy one, but that's just me. I had a pit in my stomach that lasted about a month because the car was by far the most expensive toy I have ever purchased. The discomfort went away nicely after a while :)

I wouldn't worry about the car being ostentatious. I had the very same concern, but most people don't even know what a Tesla is. Surprisingly, I've received very few comments about the car, which is good because I did not purchase it to show off in any way and do not desire attention. I just like the car. Now if you buy one with powder coated 21" wheels, red brake calipers, and tinted windows it might draw some attention, but my mostly standard black sedan only draws the attention of a few car people now and then.

Hope that helps. Post back if you buy one. Don't let these crazy Bogleheads talk you into a Honda Accord or a Toyota Camry :)
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Tesla S

Post by BrandonBogle »

I absolutely love my Tesla! I enjoyed cars, but never had the budget for it previously. Recently, I found that I am on track for early retirement even if I cut my retirement contributions in half. I was looking at getting a new Tesla 70D since I am not a performance-oriented person and the extra power of the 85D would be lost on me.

When the CPO program was unveiled, I ended up buying they very nice. I found a car with nearly my perfect configuration. It had the standard rather than alcantara headliner and didn't have the new radar cruise control, but it carried a significant discount and restarted warranty. The difference in price was significant enough for me to overlook these shortcomings. I do NOT regret this decision for a minute and after three weeks and 1,400 miles, I'm ecstatic that I did this.

The big difference in CPO vs. new pricing not for me is something ualdriver touched on. To buy new, I would have to go in debt. To buy CPO, I could stretch just slightly and buy that without going into debt. In the end, I got a loan for the full purchase price + taxes since my I got a 1.49% loan and over the life of the loan, the interest would be less than the capital gains I would have paid for the liquidating of investments to buy the car. I ended up reducing my retirement contributions from around 30% (after employer matching) to about 20% (after employer matching) and that equaled my loan payment. So while my retirement ending balance took a hit, I'm still on track and my budget didn't have to adjust to accommodate the car.

So as others will likely mention, if this is what you want to splurge on to reap the benefits of the Boglehead philosophy, then do it. We are, after all, saving and investing at Bogleheads to accomplish a goal and driving such a car could be one of those goals.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Tesla S

Post by TomatoTomahto »

4nursebee, I sent you a PM, but want to say that, unlike auldriver, I'm not a car guy. I usually take whatever car my wife is done with, but the Tesla quickens my pulse when I think of it. Maybe I'm a "true believer," but I don't think Tesla would have endangered lives to save pennies on a critical part and hidden it; I think they're an engineering-driven company; I think electric cars are the future (even if in the end it's not Tesla that dominates); and I'm happy to "overpay" for a car that helps fund self-driving innovations, etc.

I am seldom so sure of a purchase.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
Valuethinker
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Re: Tesla S

Post by Valuethinker »

4nursebee wrote:For those of you here that have purchased a model S or reserved an X, I am hoping you will share with me your situation, please feel free to respond via PM, and correspondence will be kept confidential.

My situation and thoughts.
We can FIRE now but are working until one of us is 59.5 in 1.5 yrs
We have roughly 30x expenses in retirement accounts.
We value renewable energy, have solar on our house, room for more panels to charge the car.
Retirement plans include riding our bikes on the best bike trails in each state, travelling in a Model S.
We have a car that could trade or sell for 10-15K.
Perhaps 15 K cash, but this is emergency fund.
I'd consider pulling money out of Roth IRA, the contributions, to make a sizable down payment. I do expect that Roth holding will grow in excess of interest rate we would otherwise pay.
Ceteris paribus, at 59.5 our lifestyle spending can increase with great confidence. We could FIRE now and maintain.
I picture buying an S to enjoy for now as a new car, then travel the US in it for fun when we quit working.

Pro: It is a nice car.
It is a very safe car.
It is an environmentally friendly car,
We have enough money for FIRE.
It would be nice to splurge.

Cons: From a cash based utilitarian perspective it can't be justified.
I read a lot on here about experiences add value to life more than things.
Owning such a vehicle would be more ostentatious than we have ever been.

Your thoughts on this?
Where does your Tesla fit into net worth/ annual income?
Thanks
When you hit retirement, how much distance driving will you do? My father used his car in retirement to go 2-3 mile distances for shopping (Tesla works great) and then long driving holidays and trips to see friends (Tesla would work not at all).

You'll love the Tesla when you have it, by all accounts. But is that enough? If I were downsizing (eg to 1 car from two) which would be environmentally a hugely positive thing, then I would want that 1 car to be an all round useful car-- holidays and day to day.

My father retired with a very good company pension and large investments. But he was not the sort to own a 'flash' car: his Honda Accord was used by my brother's family even after his death and is probably still out there on Canadian roads, 15 years old.

Is it worth it to you to own an 'ostentatious' car? As opposed to doing that Galapagos trip (highly recommended) or the Antarctica one (I've gone off that dream: moral issues in part, but it's still probably the $15k pp trip of a lifetime). Spitsbergen and the Svalbard islands? The Yukon? I know I would rather spend say $30k on the holiday of a lifetime than on a nice car. Go and spend a month (or two) in Australia and New Zealand.

Electric cars will be better in 5 years. That's for certain. I believe they are the future, but there are numerous hurdles yet to be overcome.

There's a famous business school case about Boston Ice Merchants. Even after refrigeration was invented, they were still exporting ice to (yes) Amsterdam and London. They actually got *better* at it: more efficient, lower cost, better ships. It did not in the end save them, but you can still see the old ice houses on London's canals. The Internal Combustion Engine car is similar: we can see the day when it will be no more, but in that 40-50 years it will do a lot of miles.

In truth if I were buying an EV now, I would consider leasing. Because in 5 years, for sure, there will be more and better choices on the market.

Would you feel the same about buying a Tesla if I told you stock markets were going to fall 30% next year? Would it still seem an affordable luxury? Unless your money is in cash in FDIC insured accounts, it's always at risk-- it's not actual money, just potential money. (T Bonds are also perfectly safe, but bear (bare?) inflation risk).

I would lease, and not raid tax exempt accounts.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Tesla S

Post by BrandonBogle »

Valuethinker wrote: When you hit retirement, how much distance driving will you do? My father used his car in retirement to go 2-3 mile distances for shopping (Tesla works great) and then long driving holidays and trips to see friends (Tesla would work not at all).
I completely agree with most of Valuethinker's. Things will get better, there are other things you can spend on, and if you aren't a car-person, there are safe cars they will get you from point A to point B. But I just wanted to mention that that I am confused by the quoted section. Not that every trip is currently available, but your statement is also overgeneralized. I have driven my Tesla from DC to Florida without issue, or major deviation in the driving plans I normally take for that trip. Additionally, at 2014's Boglehead conference, two people drove their Teslas to the conference. So "long driving holidays and trips to see friends" are totally easily doable for much of the U.S. population.

Btw, I personally don't think of the Model S as ostentatious, but that is a personal judgement call. Where I live, I MB SLs, Porches, Aston Martins, Jaguars, BMW 7 series, Range Rovers, Maseratis, two Ferraris, etc. in additon to the plainer Lexus, Toyotas, Hondsa, Nissans, etc. I purposely like that the Tesla doesn't scream out "look at me".
Valuethinker
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Re: Tesla S

Post by Valuethinker »

BrandonBogle wrote:
Valuethinker wrote: When you hit retirement, how much distance driving will you do? My father used his car in retirement to go 2-3 mile distances for shopping (Tesla works great) and then long driving holidays and trips to see friends (Tesla would work not at all).
I completely agree with most of Valuethinker's. Things will get better, there are other things you can spend on, and if you aren't a car-person, there are safe cars they will get you from point A to point B. But I just wanted to mention that that I am confused by the quoted section. Not that every trip is currently available, but your statement is also overgeneralized. I have driven my Tesla from DC to Florida without issue, or major deviation in the driving plans I normally take for that trip. Additionally, at 2014's Boglehead conference, two people drove their Teslas to the conference. So "long driving holidays and trips to see friends" are totally easily doable for much of the U.S. population.

Btw, I personally don't think of the Model S as ostentatious, but that is a personal judgement call. Where I live, I MB SLs, Porches, Aston Martins, Jaguars, BMW 7 series, Range Rovers, Maseratis, two Ferraris, etc. in additon to the plainer Lexus, Toyotas, Hondsa, Nissans, etc. I purposely like that the Tesla doesn't scream out "look at me".
OK I am wrong. The infrastructure has moved out.

The range limit would seem to be the major issue with EVs-- but you are saying that's no longer an issue?
tecmage
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Re: Tesla S

Post by tecmage »

I'm a bit different, I'm not a car guy at all. My past cars were a 84 ford that I put over 200k miles on with 320k total when I gave it to a friend, a 96 Mitsubishi that I put 220k miles on (250k when I sold it) and a 03 Cadillac that I put over 110k miles on and was falling apart before I traded it in for the Tesla. All cars were either used or in the case of the Cadillac a handed down car.

I bought the Tesla because our retirement was on track, debt was gone, the Cadillac was falling apart, and I really believe in the technology of the car. I'm done with gas cars, my wife has a Kia that we can use for road trips if needed but so far we haven't needed it. It's great being able to go out and drive all day without stopping for gas and just plugging in when I get home. It's quiet and even my slow 85 has significant power to it. So while I'm normally the buy a used car and drive it till it falls apart person I made an exception for this car. If I was going to buy a gas car it would have been something in the 30k range the Tesla was obviously significantly more but I don't regret it for a minute (ok maybe some slight regret for not getting the 70D version that was released after I ordered).

BTW one piece of advice, shop around a lot for car insurance. I ended up saving money on the Tesla insurance by swapping companies as some of them aren't sure how or what to charge for a Tesla.

Bottom line, for me the Tesla is more a piece of technology and less a car.

As for the range "issues" my first weekend I had the car, I drove over 340 miles through a national forest and was able to charge for free at two stations in a city on the outskirts of it. One public charging station when we stopped for breakfast, one a station setup by a local insurance agent that listed free charging for anyone driving through that we stopped at for dinner and icecream. Each stop was around 2 hours and while not as convenient as a gas station it wasn't bad at all. When staying on the highways there are better and faster options such as the super charging network and other high amp chargers.

By the end of the year I should be able to road trip from Seattle to Florida without issue.
http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger
Last edited by tecmage on Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Tesla S

Post by BrandonBogle »

Valuethinker wrote:
BrandonBogle wrote:
Valuethinker wrote: When you hit retirement, how much distance driving will you do? My father used his car in retirement to go 2-3 mile distances for shopping (Tesla works great) and then long driving holidays and trips to see friends (Tesla would work not at all).
I completely agree with most of Valuethinker's. Things will get better, there are other things you can spend on, and if you aren't a car-person, there are safe cars they will get you from point A to point B. But I just wanted to mention that that I am confused by the quoted section. Not that every trip is currently available, but your statement is also overgeneralized. I have driven my Tesla from DC to Florida without issue, or major deviation in the driving plans I normally take for that trip. Additionally, at 2014's Boglehead conference, two people drove their Teslas to the conference. So "long driving holidays and trips to see friends" are totally easily doable for much of the U.S. population.

Btw, I personally don't think of the Model S as ostentatious, but that is a personal judgement call. Where I live, I MB SLs, Porches, Aston Martins, Jaguars, BMW 7 series, Range Rovers, Maseratis, two Ferraris, etc. in additon to the plainer Lexus, Toyotas, Hondsa, Nissans, etc. I purposely like that the Tesla doesn't scream out "look at me".
OK I am wrong. The infrastructure has moved out.

The range limit would seem to be the major issue with EVs-- but you are saying that's no longer an issue?
Darn it. Lost my initial reply. Recreating from memory.

I wouldn't say no longer an issue, but not an issue for much of the U.S. Supercharge.info provides a great way to check coverage. Load the site, turn on range circle, set to 150-200 miles (to give lots of buffer for faster speeds, hills, and winds from your 250ish mile "tank") and you see the area you can travel with only quick stops to charge while using the facilities, stretching your legs, grabbing a bite to eat. I usually stop for 15-20 minutes for a Supercharge. That said, areas not covered can still be done, but then you are looking at hours to charge rather than less than one hour (and more likely less than 30 min), so that requires an overnight stay or checking out a town during the day while charging.

Here is the map currently with a 160 mile radius set. Depending on topography and weather, you can easily bump that up to a larger radius.
Supercharge.info with 160 mile radius 8-June, 2015
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Tesla S

Post by TomatoTomahto »

My understanding is that you can get 80% charged in 20 minutes with a Supercharger, but that the remaining 20% takes another 20 minutes. As most of life, it follows the 80/20 rule :D

My wife brings up the charging question every chance she gets :annoyed , but in addition to Superchargers on main highways, there are other slower chargers. The hotel we stay at in New Haven, for example, has what is referred to as a "destination charger." Tesla, from some reports I've seen, is subsidizing the installation of chargers at some of these locations.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Tesla S

Post by BrandonBogle »

TomatoTomahto wrote:My understanding is that you can get 80% charged in 20 minutes with a Supercharger, but that the remaining 20% takes another 20 minutes. As most of life, it follows the 80/20 rule :D

My wife brings up the charging question every chance she gets :annoyed , but in addition to Superchargers on main highways, there are other slower chargers. The hotel we stay at in New Haven, for example, has what is referred to as a "destination charger." Tesla, from some reports I've seen, is subsidizing the installation of chargers at some of these locations.
That is correct. It's also another "hidden" reason I use 150-200 mile as the radius in stops, so I don't sit around for that last 20%.
UnclePennybags
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Re: Tesla S

Post by UnclePennybags »

4nursebee summoned me via PM and I couldn't resist answering other posts on the page first:
madbrain wrote:Of course, there is the major one which is the Lion battery. Has Tesla made public the cost of an out-of-warranty battery replacement yet ?

The battery is warrantied for 8 years/unlimited miles, but they haven't made the model S for 8 years yet.
They may have some Roadsters with out of warranty batteries, though.
Roadster batteries run about 32k, but they are an older and more expensive format. The new home battery retails for $350 per kw, which would equate to 24-29k. There is strong evidence that Tesla's internal cost has declined 20% or more in the last five years and is expected to decline even more once the gigafactory comes online, so the cost may be even lower in 10 years.
airahcaz wrote:And no Awd versions yet?
There are AWD versions in three flavors for sale now.
etm wrote:If an individual cell goes bad the dealer can replace that individual cell. There really is no such thing as the "battery". What you have are hundreds of cells, case, control modules, thermal management systems, etc. Like the Volt I'm sure the Tesla's are all modular, so you never really replace the whole "battery" at one time.
The Tesla battery pack is not really designed to be broken down and serviced at the cell level. If a single cell failed, it can be isolated from the rest of the pack and you would just lose an incremental amount of capacity. There are modules that can be replaced, but the way it would likely work is that they would simply swap the entire pack and salvage what they can from the old pack.
UnclePennybags
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Re: Tesla S

Post by UnclePennybags »

4nursebee wrote:Your thoughts on this?
Where does your Tesla fit into net worth/ annual income?
Thanks
It is an expensive car and probably doesn't fit all that well with the paradigm of frugality and savings-oriented focus that is common to so many of us. However, I think it does make sense to spend money when it brings you joy and if you think it is supporting some cause greater than consumerism. For us, the car is an absolute delight. I'm pleased by it in a way that I have rarely been by any other product I've purchased (perhaps the only comparable feeling I had was from TiVo or Apple when they were an unexpected pleasure). I'm also confident that the sooner we move away from fossil fuels the better and this is my small contribution towards that goal. The total cost of our car was about 1/3rd of our annual income, but I'd have been happy with the purchase if it was a higher percentage. It is by far the most expensive car I've ever purchased.

Like others, I don't find it particularly showy or ostentatious -- most people have no idea what it is at all. The people who do are very interested, however. I find that about 1 time in 3 when I return to the car from shopping I end up in a conversation about it.
Valuethinker wrote:The range limit would seem to be the major issue with EVs-- but you are saying that's no longer an issue?
I've had my Tesla about 6 months and have taken only two long distance trips, but I would say for us it is absolutely no issue at all. For everyday driving, I've never come remotely close to burning the approximately 250 mile range in a day and I simply plug it in at night and it is charged and ready to go every morning. Unlike my gasoline car, which once a week would be running low on gas and I'd have to go out of my way to fuel. Also, I spend about 15% of what I used to spend on gasoline to purchase electricity.

On longer road trips, I find that our need to stop for bathroom breaks or meal breaks is greater than the car's need to recharge. Depending on how full the battery is, you can easily go 200-225 miles at a stretch without feeling too nervous about the declining charge or having to drive slower than the prevailing traffic. At 70mph, that equates to about 3 hours of driving. Last weekend, we took an eight hour road trip and stopped once for coffee and a bathroom break and again for lunch at chargers. The coffee stop took us about 20 minutes and about 45 minutes for lunch. The car was done charging before we finished lunch. We actually ended up making an additional stop to stretch our legs and have a bathroom stop that the car didn't require. If we had further to go in one day, we could have timed another charging stop to fit in with dinner or another short break. Frankly, the way we prefer to travel today, we have yet to feel inconvenienced in the slightest. In our younger days, where we might drive 16 hours in a day and eat from a cooler while driving down the road stopping only for 10 minutes at a time to pump gas, the Tesla would absolutely add a couple of hours to the trip, but we're hopefully never going to travel like that again.

There are a few parts of the country not well served by supercharging stations where long distance travel would still be a pain, but pretty much everywhere east of the Mississippi or on the West Coast is covered and the east/west paths through the midwest are getting better every day. You can already go coast-to-coast on two of the major corridors.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Tesla S

Post by TomatoTomahto »

Perhaps I should stop reading this thread. It's making the wait for my Model X tougher and I don't want to buy an S out of impatience. If I weren't short and accustomed to the high seating of an SUV, the S really fits my needs just fine.

+1 to UnclePennybags. I anticipate that the Tesla will give me the same feelings that my Nikon D4 does, a marvel of engineering and "fit for purpose." My posts often discuss extravagances, but we generally do LBYM, and do so precisely because of wanting the ability to spend more than absolutely necessary when something like this show up.

ETA: our net worth is in the mid 7-digits, so the purchase is extravagant but not a stretch. I would buy it with a smaller net worth, although I'd consider CPO or fewer options.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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