Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Lumpr
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 2:23 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by Lumpr »

If at all possible: a safe car for day-to-day and a classic car he can rebuild for shows/sactioned races. Of course space becomes a real issue, but if possible this is what I'd do.

P.s. I had a 69 Nova in highshool. I built a high performance 327 engine for it. It was great fun and that car was amazingly quick. However, its handling could not come even remotely close to matching its acceleration. And therein lies the problem, for a few thousand dollars a kid that is quick with a wrench can take one of these cars and make it incredibly fast . . . in a straight line.
Dave76
Posts: 564
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:05 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by Dave76 »

Lumpr wrote:If at all possible: a safe car for day-to-day and a classic car he can rebuild for shows/sactioned races. Of course space becomes a real issue, but if possible this is what I'd do.

P.s. I had a 69 Nova in highshool. I built a high performance 327 engine for it. It was great fun and that car was amazingly quick. However, its handling could not come even remotely close to matching its acceleration. And therein lies the problem, for a few thousand dollars a kid that is quick with a wrench can take one of these cars and make it incredibly fast . . . in a straight line.
That would certainly be an issue on a raceway.

A young driver who's mature, responsible and has common sense, will follow the rules of the road. He will exercise a high degree of discretion when on the road because he fears the consequences of not doing so. He knows that driving is a privilege, and that any reckless behavior can result in the loss of that privilege....or worse -- a serious accident.

The OP should know his son well enough to be able to make the right decision.
User avatar
bottlecap
Posts: 6906
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:21 pm
Location: Tennessee

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by bottlecap »

Dave76 wrote:A young driver who's mature, responsible and has common sense, will follow the rules of the road. He will exercise a high degree of discretion when on the road because he fears the consequences of not doing so. He knows that driving is a privilege, and that any reckless behavior can result in the loss of that privilege....or worse -- a serious accident.
The problem with this is that the kid described here would be sensible enough not to want a classic muscle car. Not to cast dispersions on the OP's son - but it's a fact. Young minds aren't always capable of making the right decisions, even if they're connected to good kids. The mind has not developed yet.

The other problem is honestly evaluating your offspring. When I grew up the kids least mature and least likely to exercise a high degree of discretion were the ones with fast cars and motorbikes, precisely because their parents almost pridefully misjudged how they acted once out from under parental supervision. No parent permits a child to have these things because they believe their children are irresponsible fools.

In any event, the reason to get a classic car today is that they're cool. A big reason they are cool is that they are powerful. Not a great combination for any kid, but the "mature, sensible" kid exercising a "high degree of discretion", to the extent he exists, would be looking for an inexpensive car to maintain without regard to its sex appeal.

JT
Dave76
Posts: 564
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:05 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by Dave76 »

I see where you're coming from. Points taken. Maybe it's best to wait until he's older (18 or 21).
Mordoch
Posts: 494
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:27 am

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by Mordoch »

Dave76 wrote: Crumple zones have been around for decades. My Volvo 240 had those. It's old technology.
There have still been big improvements in how effectively they are implemented and other details since 1980 and earlier. On top of vehicle tests, there is fairly objective crash testing with modern technology and sensors on crash dummies that really quite clearly shows there have been substantial improvements in how effectively these features have been combined since 1980. Today they can quite effectively test if a dummy would have survived a crash and what condition they would be in, and if the new car can't meet certain standards it won't even be allowed on the road, and in practice cars with one or two car crash safety ratings have trouble selling so companies may sure they do more than merely meet the minimum standards, while not all car companies viewed things the same way during the period in question. Some elements of crash testing in particular situations were not even focused on until the 1990s.
Far from being simply a human-sized hunk of unthinking steel and foam rubber, today’s crash test dummies are high-tech instruments that help save countless lives. At General Motors’ Anthropomorphic Test Device (ATD) lab in Milford, Michigan, crash dummies record and transmit data 10,000 times a second. Wired with up to 80 sensors, they’re able to tell safety engineers exactly how much and what kind of forces have been endured during a crash...

This includes the partial offset crash test, in which a vehicle hits a fixed barrier or pole with only a small part of its front structure. Developed by Volvo in the 1990s, this test puts a tremendous stress on the vehicle—not to mention its occupants by directing forces through a narrower region of the bodywork and chassis. Volvo has designed a crash dummy with a modified shoulder design to better record the unique twisting forces in this grueling test.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/special-rep ... st-dummies
User avatar
FabLab
Posts: 1127
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:15 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by FabLab »

'64 GTO
The fundamental things apply as time goes by -- Herman Hupfeld
Topic Author
R2
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:18 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by R2 »

Thanks to everyone for posting helpful information. There seems to be a lot of interest in this topic, as well as a good breadth of perspective.

My initial reaction to my son wanting a muscle car was that it was fun to look, but it was not the right thing for him. My thoughts are now more like that it is not the right thing for him now.

My son typically learns by doing. I can envision him working on an old car for a long time, as it interests him. Unfortunately, he would want to learn about how well a fast car handles by driving fast. He tends to be very self confident. Typically beyond justification.

He has been doing a little research about how much it costs to insure a car, and it has been a good learning experience. It doesn't seem fair to him his sisters' insurance is a lot lower. They never asked for a muscle car, and probably would refuse to ride with him!

What I have recommended to him is to drive my old pick-up truck for the first year and that we should continue the discussion about a different vehicle. Saving the difference in insurance between his proposed car and the truck would allow him to buy a better car in the future.

The points about safety are well taken, and I share them. So we will research cars built in the last 10-15 years.

Ultimately, he would likely choose to do what I tell him, but he is at an age where it is important to participate significantly in make this type of decision. Life is not simply about risk mitigation and cost minimization, and this a chance to work together to make a significant decision.

I do like the enthusiasm from many of the posters here. It helps me better understand my sons motivations!
User avatar
interplanetjanet
Posts: 2226
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:52 pm
Location: the wilds of central California

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by interplanetjanet »

I'd suggest two things that may help him out in the long term.

First of all, find out if there are any "auto shop" programs available his school or nearby ones. Sometimes this will be a class that can be taken as part of a normal day's schedule that may fulfill a "practical arts" elective requirement. These give environments where students can learn, hands-on, how cars work and how to work on them. I didn't have the benefit of one of these but I have multiple relatives who were mechanics who taught me over the years, and I can safely say that learning more about the mechanical aspects of cars has saved me a lot of money over the years, and challenged my mind to help me develop problem solving skills. I made some good friendships this way as well (though ok, I gained an odd reputation as being "that girl who welded together the headers on Jimmy's Dodge Challenger engine swap").

Secondly, once he has his full license, I would recommend checking out performance driving courses. I took one and I think I'm a much safer driver because of it, though it was also good fun. You learn a lot about what really goes into the dynamics of driving and how unsafe the street really is compared to a track, because there is so much that is out of your control. Many accidents are avoidable, learning good technique will help. He may also get an insurance discount if he completes one.

-janet
User avatar
tinscale
Posts: 401
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:16 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by tinscale »

If the interest in "classic" cars is a mechanical tinkering thing or just an appreciation of those older cars, than just about any pre-1975 car should do for the coolness factor and to avoid the major pollution controls ('75 is when unleaded gasoline and catalytic converters started).

If serious tinkering, racing, or hot rodding is an interest, how about a car that he can work on to race at the local track, or team him up with someone who already races at the track.

Addendum - I see Lumpr already provided this idea.
rec7
Posts: 2369
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:22 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by rec7 »

My father let me drive at 18. I always thought later that it was a very wise move. If I have a family 18 will be the driving age.
Disclaimer: You might lose money doing anything I say. Although that was not my intent. | Favorite song: Sometimes He Whispers Jay Parrack
User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 17158
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by TomatoTomahto »

rec7 wrote:My father let me drive at 18. I always thought later that it was a very wise move. If I have a family 18 will be the driving age.
My father (a pilot) had me learn to fly and solo before I could drive. If my memory serves, at the time you could solo at 14, but drive at 16, which led to the ludicrous situation of my Dad driving me to the airport, whereupon I could take up an airplane by myself. I do think that flying helped my driving, if for no other reason than that it brought home the fact that up in the air, there's no BS. If you fool around, there's a good chance you'll die.

OTOH, in the air, you are mostly sharing the environment with other qualified, sane, and responsible pilots (there are exceptions, but as a rule, it holds). The roads are a different matter.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
camiboxer
Posts: 245
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:52 am

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by camiboxer »

We are a classic/muscle car family.
Two 70 Chevelle SS
69 GTO
70 1/2 Camaro
88 Formula 350
86 Grand National

To be honest unless your son is one of the lucky ones to find a 70 Nova with a 396 :D I'd not be too worried about what is more than likely under the hood....a 350, perhaps a 305 or a 6 cyl.
No matter what he ends up with, classic or modern he is going to drive it like he stole it on more than one occasion. I've seen an older classic car go head on with a newer full sized pick up and the pick up was totaled and the classic car have an easily fixable dent in the steel bumper. 70 vehicles for sure have seat belts, perhaps not shoulder straps (depends on the make).
He's never going to get back what he puts into the car, dollar-wise. He needs to find a good mechanic who is well versed in carbs. Some mechanics today have NO CLUE how to adjust a carburetor. Chevy parts (engines) are a dime a dozen however they are just rare enough for the older cars that they come with a hefty price tag in a lot of instances. Body parts won't be OEM but after market in most cases as well.
My hubby still has his very first car purchased at age 15. He is now 44 and that car is literally a part of the family and not going anywhere. It is for sure been a money pit after complete restoration (he is a mechanic and did it all minus paint & body work). Upwards of $75k in the car over the years but it isn't a daily driver (drag races it) and it has won many awards at car shows. These cars can become a way of life. An expensive way of life! If he gets the gear-head bug there really isn't much hope for him. :P :P
stupidkid
Posts: 276
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:11 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by stupidkid »

Don't do it! I had friends with muscle cars in high school and some made it through without a scratch, but not many. If only for the car, don't let another classic go to waste wrapped around a tree in some reckless kid's hands.
User avatar
Mister Whale
Posts: 495
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:39 am

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by Mister Whale »

camiboxer wrote:We are a classic/muscle car family.
Two 70 Chevelle SS
69 GTO
70 1/2 Camaro
88 Formula 350
86 Grand National
Having owned both a '68 GTO (it was my mom's, purchased brand new) and an '87 Grand National, I totally understand. :thumbsup
" ... advice is most useful and at its best, not when it is telling you what to do, but when it is illuminating aspects of the situation you hadn't thought about." --nisiprius
User avatar
HardKnocker
Posts: 2063
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:55 am
Location: New Jersey USA

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by HardKnocker »

stupidkid wrote:Don't do it! I had friends with muscle cars in high school and some made it through without a scratch, but not many. If only for the car, don't let another classic go to waste wrapped around a tree in some reckless kid's hands.
Post of the day! :sharebeer
“Gold gets dug out of the ground, then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility.”--Warren Buffett
Oddlot
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:01 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by Oddlot »

wageoghe wrote: 3. Do you feel comfortable with your son hauling other kids around in this car?
4. Would you feel comfortable with your son riding around in some other 16 year old kid's 40 year old 300 horsepower car? Maybe with a bunch of other kids?
Further, maybe your son is mature, but does he have any "Eddie Haskell"-type friends who could talk your son into letting them taking the Nova for a spin? That could end badly....
Random Poster
Posts: 3314
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:17 am

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by Random Poster »

1984-1985 Mercedes W126 diesel.

Big, slow, hands-on, realtively safe, reasonably cheap, and tinker-able.
User avatar
HomerJ
Posts: 21281
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:50 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by HomerJ »

Claude wrote:A while ago, I took a fair amount of flack for considering buying my son a new or nearly new Volvo xc60 to begin his driving in a very safe car. Apparently, many BH are more concerned about teaching their children financial lessons (not a bad thing in and of itself) than protecting their children in the event of an accident. This is further borne out in the replies to this thread.

I don't want to be offensive or maudlin, but I would ask that you do a little "imagining." imagine a phone call that informs you that your son has had a tragic accident, and one where perhaps a more modern, safer car would have resulted in an entirely different outcome. How diminished would your desire to defer to his "passion" be?
By your reasoning, maybe you shouldn't let your kid EVER drive. You can still get that call even with a newer safer car, and how will you feel if you knew you could have saved his life by not letting him drive anywhere ever?

Life is risky.

OP, I say let him buy the Nova... If he's saved $8k on his own, and shoots skeet competitively, sounds like he's pretty responsible. Let him have an older car to work on. All of the best engineers I know also started out working on cars as teenagers.
User avatar
HomerJ
Posts: 21281
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:50 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by HomerJ »

rec7 wrote:My father let me drive at 18. I always thought later that it was a very wise move. If I have a family 18 will be the driving age.
Seems to me that just means you suck at driving from 18-19 instead of 16-17. The first year is the first year, no matter when you start.

16 seems like a good age because you learn when you are still driving locally. At 18, you're in college, or out of the house, and much more likely to want to take 300 mile roadtrips. I'd rather my kid drive across country after at least 3 years of driving than just 1 year.
User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 17158
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by TomatoTomahto »

rrosenkoetter wrote:
Claude wrote:A while ago, I took a fair amount of flack for considering buying my son a new or nearly new Volvo xc60 to begin his driving in a very safe car. Apparently, many BH are more concerned about teaching their children financial lessons (not a bad thing in and of itself) than protecting their children in the event of an accident. This is further borne out in the replies to this thread.

I don't want to be offensive or maudlin, but I would ask that you do a little "imagining." imagine a phone call that informs you that your son has had a tragic accident, and one where perhaps a more modern, safer car would have resulted in an entirely different outcome. How diminished would your desire to defer to his "passion" be?
By your reasoning, maybe you shouldn't let your kid EVER drive. You can still get that call even with a newer safer car, and how will you feel if you knew you could have saved his life by not letting him drive anywhere ever?

Life is risky.
It's true, life is risky. My kids play ice hockey, which is risky, but they love it. OTOH, I can afford to buy them excellent protective gear and make sure that it's well fitted. I see kids playing hockey in helmets that are loose fitting, flimsy, and damaged. My job isn't to be OVER protective, but rational precautions are my responsibility as a parent.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
User avatar
tadamsmar
Posts: 9972
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 12:33 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by tadamsmar »

Dave76 wrote:
MathWizard wrote:I'd vote against the NOVA SS.

My son has been driving about a year. We have him drive our '98 LeSabre.
front wheel drive, 4 wheel ABS, dual airbags, traction control , the best
safety in its class when it was built. The NOVA SS has none of these
safety features.

He's planning on being a mechanical engineer just like your son.
I've worked on cars, (rebuilt motors, changed transmissions, brakes, exhaust, Ujoints, etc.)
from that era, and things are much different now.
My son worked was on a team which made a robot which competed in the FIRST competition
in May. That would probably be better training for an ME. (My BS is in engineering, but not ME.)

If you have any snow where you are, a the back end rear wheel drive car can come around really easily.
(It's pretty scary sliding sideways down a highway at 60 MPH. This has never happens with a Front Wheel Drive car.)
I don't think those safety features are necessary. Every car manufactured in 1970 has a collapsible steering column (as far as I know). That's all that matters to me.
Dual airbags are mandatory on all new cars. Traction control and ABS have not tested out as a cost-effective safety feature by the NHTSA. However, ABS is now mandatory as a base technology for ESC which is mandatory.

ESC is probably as important as the collapsible steering column. Field data indicates that it prevents 1/3 of fataliites.
How can you really teach someone to drive when the trainer vehicle is equipped with FWD, ABS, ESC, and an automatic transmission? I don't see how anybody can learn that way. I learned to drive commercial vehicles that had none of these things. If I had 'learned' to drive with all those safety gadgets at 16, it would have been like learning to drive all over again.
Depends what you mean by teach. I hear that at least some driver's training courses at schools teach ABS and non-ABS braking in the classroom. But I don't think any of them give hands on training in emergency braking. If you don't actually do the emergency braking in training the it does not matter what the car is equiped with. The drivers's training in NC at least won't involve hands on training where FWD, ABS, or ESC make any difference, unless it happens by accident.

If the kid buys a classic car then it probably means the family fleet will have a mixture of technologies. ABS, non-ABS for instance, so everyone will have to switch procedures depending on the car. Of course, a mixed fleet is common.

Heck, almost nobody every learns how to optimally brake in a car without brake assist.
Last edited by tadamsmar on Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
tadamsmar
Posts: 9972
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 12:33 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by tadamsmar »

Try this:

1. Go to http://www.cars.com

2. Hit "search used"

2. Set up to search near your zip code.

3. Go to the bottom left "Additional Keywords" and specify "stability" as an additional keyword.

4. Click "price" and the top of the price column, so that the lowest price cars are first.

You will have in front of you a somewhat accurate list of relatively cheap cars that have stability control (aka ESC).

If you get a car with ESC you are getting about 80-90% of the safety value of features available in a new car these days.

But, some of the cars in the search list will not have ESC. You need to double check vs:

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/esc/esc.aspx

Also, you should actually confirm that the car has ESC when you go see it. See here:

http://epicurusgarden.blogspot.com/2011 ... h-esc.html

This procedure will most likely turn up a few cheap classic BMWs, Mercedes, etc. Also some Kia Sedonas, and Hyundai Sonatas perhaps. Maybe an Avalon or 4Runner. Depends on what classic means to you.

Don't be afraid of getting a SUV with ESC. IIHS has a study that seems to indicate that SUVs with ESC are now safer than sedans because ESC has mitigated the rollover problem and they are safer in side impacts because the passenger are higher. I am not sure I completely believe that, but I think it's close enough to being true.

Anyway, it might be possible to have your cake and eat it too, so to speak.
rec7
Posts: 2369
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:22 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by rec7 »

[quote="rrosenkoetter"][quote="rec7"]My father let me drive at 18. I always thought later that it was a very wise move. If I have a family 18 will be the driving age.[/quote]

Seems to me that just means you suck at driving from 18-19 instead of 16-17. The first year is the first year, no matter when you start.

16 seems like a good age because you learn when you are still driving locally. At 18, you're in college, or out of the house, and much more likely to want to take 300 mile roadtrips. I'd rather my kid drive across country after at least 3 years of driving than just 1 year.[/quote]

I was not a perfect driver at 18 but I worked odd jobs starting at 15 and bought the car. I was careful because that car took me several years to buy.
Disclaimer: You might lose money doing anything I say. Although that was not my intent. | Favorite song: Sometimes He Whispers Jay Parrack
rec7
Posts: 2369
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:22 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by rec7 »

[quote="rec7"][quote="rrosenkoetter"][quote="rec7"]My father let me drive at 18. I always thought later that it was a very wise move. If I have a family 18 will be the driving age.[/quote]

Seems to me that just means you suck at driving from 18-19 instead of 16-17. The first year is the first year, no matter when you start.

16 seems like a good age because you learn when you are still driving locally. At 18, you're in college, or out of the house, and much more likely to want to take 300 mile roadtrips. I'd rather my kid drive across country after at least 3 years of driving than just 1 year.[/quote]

I was not a perfect driver at 18 but I worked odd jobs starting at 15 and bought the car. I was careful because that car took me several years of work to buy.[/quote]
Disclaimer: You might lose money doing anything I say. Although that was not my intent. | Favorite song: Sometimes He Whispers Jay Parrack
Valuethinker
Posts: 49032
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by Valuethinker »

R2 wrote:Thanks to everyone for posting helpful information. There seems to be a lot of interest in this topic, as well as a good breadth of perspective.

My initial reaction to my son wanting a muscle car was that it was fun to look, but it was not the right thing for him. My thoughts are now more like that it is not the right thing for him now.

My son typically learns by doing. I can envision him working on an old car for a long time, as it interests him. Unfortunately, he would want to learn about how well a fast car handles by driving fast. He tends to be very self confident. Typically beyond justification.

He has been doing a little research about how much it costs to insure a car, and it has been a good learning experience. It doesn't seem fair to him his sisters' insurance is a lot lower. They never asked for a muscle car, and probably would refuse to ride with him!

What I have recommended to him is to drive my old pick-up truck for the first year and that we should continue the discussion about a different vehicle. Saving the difference in insurance between his proposed car and the truck would allow him to buy a better car in the future.

The points about safety are well taken, and I share them. So we will research cars built in the last 10-15 years.

Ultimately, he would likely choose to do what I tell him, but he is at an age where it is important to participate significantly in make this type of decision. Life is not simply about risk mitigation and cost minimization, and this a chance to work together to make a significant decision.

I do like the enthusiasm from many of the posters here. It helps me better understand my sons motivations!
I applaud your maturity and your insight into your son.

At that age, hormones and inexperience make us all, basically, idiots. Some stupider than others. We just don't understand risk and the terrible consequences of same. Death or serious injury an abstraction to most 15 year olds.
Topic Author
R2
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:18 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by R2 »

To follow up . . .

We opted to not buy a classic car for my son. My reservations were safety features of the car, as well as for others on the road!

We ended up buying a Nissan Altima coupe that was a salvage title from Hurricane sandy. I did internet searching for a few months and found it at a reasonable price. We had a mechanic check it over before purchase, and no issues were found.

What I liked about the car was that it looks sporty, per his desire, and has reasonable performance, but not like a traditional muscle car. Front wheel drive should make the car handle better in the snow. When we test drove it, it had some pep, but not too much. He really didn't have much to compare to from his experience. He has unfortunately discovered "sport mode", which allows him to drive more like a teenager.

This seems like a reasonable compromise between modern safety features and reliability, modest cost, and "decent" performance.

If it doesn't work out for him I'll probably buy it for my 5 mile commute to work, after my old truck dies.
travellight
Posts: 2892
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:52 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by travellight »

Very interesting and timely thread as I recently went through this same mental process a week ago. My son is 16 and I was thinking about his future car. He also is a car enthusiast. I saw a classic car on a lot that caught my eye; it was a 1969 mercury cougar. I never mentioned it to him but processed it myself for a while. I was concerned about the lack of physical safety features that modern cars have like all the air bags and steel cages and crumple zones. Just last week, I abandoned the old car idea especially when I heard/read that the 2014 Chevy Volt is down to 27,500$ with discounts and rebates. I had been thinking of getting him a used Volt but it may be hard to beat the new price.
364
travellight
Posts: 2892
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:52 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by travellight »

I did tell him about the Volt and his first response was "wow, in that price range?!" He was expecting lower. I told him the caveat was that I get to use it on days I have to drive to LA from San Diego. He said "not happy with your MPGs?" lol, my car is a Cadillac STS which gets 18 mpg at best; yes, I would much prefer the Volt's mpg.
364
User avatar
Tycoon
Posts: 1630
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:06 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by Tycoon »

As someone who drove a muscle car in my teen years, and most of my college years, I would not let my teen driver(s) drive one today. It's a major miracle I'm still alive.
Emotionless, prognostication free investing. Ignoring the noise and economists since 1979. Getting rich off of "smart people's" behavioral mistakes.
User avatar
mike143
Posts: 1332
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:55 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by mike143 »

I did enough stupid stuff with lower powered cars. If they feel the urge to "drive" get them on a track.
Nothing is free, someone pays...You can't spend your way to financial freedom.
User avatar
BigOil
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 2:45 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by BigOil »

R2 wrote:Thanks for the helpful replies.

My son is mechanically inclined. It would not surprise me if he were to pursue some mechanical trade or profession. He is a good student and may choose to become a mechanical engineer (like me). I am considering letting him tinker with an old car for this reason. Many of the best engineers that I work with either grew up working on cars or other equipment.

Based on his comments about cars we see when we are out driving, I think he would be satisfied with an older "classic" car instead of a muscle car. As parents, we could set parameters about the type of car he could purchase, so I am open to suggestions for "classic" cars that he will not be tempted to race.

And yes, I do let him walk around with a loaded gun. He shoots trap competitively.
+1
This sounds a little like me, back in the day...I had a '72 Dodge Challenger BUT not the 340 4BBL...318 2BBL only. And a shotgun too! (dove and duck hunting). I became an Engineer as well, and learned a lot tinkering with that car to keep it running and looking good (e.g. rebuilt carb was like $150; rebuild kit was $20...I still know how a carb works to this day, and about Venturi principles). I guess that is(was) useful LOL.

EDIT - just saw what you ended up doing(Nissan)...and me too; my son has an old RAV4 not a tinkering car...but he is studying Accounting; so I forgave him haha ;-)
jstat
Posts: 200
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:53 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by jstat »

What I did with my kids is that I picked the car they drive for the first year. After they have been driving for a year, they can have any car they want that they can pay for.

It worked with my son. He now has a Subaru WRX, and is pleased he didn't learn to drive on his dream car.

Too soon to tell with my daughter, but she is not complaining.
Steady59
Posts: 238
Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 3:05 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by Steady59 »

In 2004, I started my two sons out with a '93 Volvo 240 which was the last year of that series which included air bags (wife insisted) and front ABS brakes. Big, slow, safe and cheap and could still be fixed pretty easily and reasonably. Even then, they later both told me they had it up to 100 MPH. Lets face it, boys (and many girls) like to drive fast. Its a right of passage, I guess. Keep that in mind when choosing a car. At some point, they will want to see how fast it goes. You don't want them to figure that out in a hopped up 1970 Nova that has trouble doing anything right except go fast in a straight line or late model over HP'ed car. Don't enable another teen statistic. The Volvo was later sold to another multiple Son family and is still (amazingly) going today.

You've got some leverage here. First off, after he gets his license, insist that he take a teen driving skills class with you. It will be a blast for both of you and you both will learn much about driving. Everyone should take this class. Make him learn how to drive properly with proper accident avoidance skills. This is what they should teach in driving school.

Buying classic cars (25+ years old) comes with financial risks. I always factor in the $2K rule, i.e. despite the ad and condition stated by the seller, you should budget $2K more for immediate repairs to start. Also, have someone who knows the particular car model well do a proper pre-inspection on the car to tell you what it will need in the future and when. This may help you negotiate a cheaper price as well. Do not buy cars that require rust repair - that is a losing proposition. In the end, classic cars are fun when they work but they will need more care and feeding which is more expensive then a later model Asian based cars.
May I suggest an old Jaguar or Alfa Romeo?
This will ensure 2 things. He will learn a lot about fixing cars as that is all he will do with these two espeically the electronics:). Hmmmm, maybe that is a good plan from a safely point of view.

Good luck!
User avatar
frugaltype
Posts: 1952
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:07 am

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by frugaltype »

I have a 1969 Mustang, V6. It was appraised at about $6000 after it was repainted a few years ago. I think that value is pretty constant. The older Mustangs that aren't major muscle cars are comparatively cheap and fun to drive. There seem to be a number of them available.

Mine has seat belts. I feel a heck of a lot safer in it than I would in some of the midget cars I see around. There's something to be said for driving a car that looks kind of like a small boat and isn't made out of plastic.

The important thing is to find a mechanic who knows how to work on older cars, and has a good source of parts. In my area there is an older car specialty mechanic.
123
Posts: 10415
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:55 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by 123 »

That 1970 car will soon be 44 years old. How comfortable would your parents have been if you had wanted a 44 year-old car as your first? How much older are you then that 44 year-old car? Humans get creaky with age and vehicles even more so.
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.
User avatar
Mister Whale
Posts: 495
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:39 am

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by Mister Whale »

OP, I'm glad to hear that your son is doing well. Thanks for the update.
" ... advice is most useful and at its best, not when it is telling you what to do, but when it is illuminating aspects of the situation you hadn't thought about." --nisiprius
rmark1
Posts: 359
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:43 am

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by rmark1 »

'That 1970 car will soon be 44 years old. How comfortable would your parents have been if you had wanted a 44 year-old car as your first?'

Cool, I could have had my dads first car, a 1933 Chevy.

When I was 16 and looking at old cars my dad said 'I worked on those cars back when they were new and the last damn thing I need is an old car', followed by a description of stripped oil plugs on '42 Chevys, broken axles on the '28 Dodge, Ford V8 with water pump on the engine mount, etc. He worked for Grandpa in the family shop while growing up. I've had one nice old car that after I sold it I told my wife to remind me no more old cars. So I look at old trucks instead :)
User avatar
frugaltype
Posts: 1952
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:07 am

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by frugaltype »

123 wrote:That 1970 car will soon be 44 years old. How comfortable would your parents have been if you had wanted a 44 year-old car as your first? How much older are you then that 44 year-old car? Humans get creaky with age and vehicles even more so.
44 years old is just getting to start middle age. That's pretty chipper.
eyesore
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:35 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by eyesore »

***I see the original question was 4 years ago and the kid would be my age now, but I hope my input will help future parents. I am 19 and my first car was a 1969 Gmc c2500. It came with a 396, the biggest engine that came in a truck that year. I think reading a different point of view might help. As long as your son or daughter has the proper respect a car with as much torque and power these old cars have you should be good. Driving this old truck to high school, senior year was the best thing I ever did. Besides the ladies loving old cars, winning best car of senior class with brand new Ford mustangs and lexus' coming behind, this truck brought some of the best memories I'll ever have. Later on that year one of my friends even purchased one because he liked mine so much. If your worried about safety a 5 point seat belt in a muscle car makes them look more muscular anyway and will help out a lot. For a truck you can get a shoulder belt if necessary. I love my truck and will never ever sell it. Although I have spent money (maybe 2k in parts) it was worth it. The biggest problem is if the car or truck was used the engine could be warn out and if it has low miles like mine the gaskets could be dried out and leak. Hope this helps and see you on the road.****
StoneyCWI
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:46 am

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by StoneyCWI »

My Niece and Nephews all learned to drive and shared a 1990 Volvo 240 sedan. All 3 got into accidents, all 3 were not injured, all 3 say they loved the car. Classic, no one else drove one and nobody ever tried to steal it. Trunk big enough to carry tons of books/beach gear/whatever.
User avatar
ClevrChico
Posts: 3259
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:24 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by ClevrChico »

The safety concern I would have are the ancient hydraulic systems in the car - Brakes, clutch, possibly power steering. I've had all those systems fail on an older car. And it's not as failsafe as one would think. Plus, throttle stuck wide open multiple times, loss of throttle twice. Plus getting stranded. My gf at the time (now wife) was convinced the car would kill me.

And that's not even getting into crash worthiness.

I love my my modern Honda with electronic throttle and electric power steering. I'm never going back to driving a classic.
Cindyjrn
Posts: 395
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:40 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by Cindyjrn »

Waiting until 18 to teach your kids to drive is irresponsible parenting IMO. At that point, they're almost adults ready to be out on their own. You owe it to them and to the driving population in general to make sure you're turning loose competent, experienced drivers on the rest of the world. You're taking two years of experience away from them where you could be supervising their driving. There's absolutely no reason that once your child obtains his or her driver's license that you should never drive with them again. Our son got his license in October and I still drive with him all the time. If we take a trip somewhere, I'll drive one way and he'll drive the other. Not only does it give me a nice break but it gives me a chance to evaluate and correct any bad driving habits that may have crept in since he's been driving mostly on his own. Obtaining a driver's license is not the end of your duties as a parent in regards to teaching your kids to drive, far from it.

That being said, every parent knows their own children. I would have no problem letting my son drive whatever car he wanted (if he was buying of course), nor do I have an issue with him driving my car (Lexus GS350) which he does all the time. He's an EXCELLENT driver that drives well beyond his years because when I taught him to drive I made sure to teach him more than the ABCs of the driving manual. I taught him to be a courteous, careful driver who is always looking for the other guy to drive like he's posting on Facebook and eating a meal, which it seems most people are these days. In fact, when I drive with him driving my car, I often have to ask him to pick up the pace a little. Far from the notion of most teen drivers out looking for a street race. My son is simply not interested in street racing or driving in a reckless manner and frankly if I thought for a minute that he was he would not be driving unsupervised at all, period. If you have doubts about how your kids are going to handle the responsibility of driving, you don't put them on the road and hope for the best. Again, JMHO YMMV.
wallygator
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:34 am

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by wallygator »

Hi,

Late to the party but...

Don't do it. I was national honors society in high school, straight A's and became an Electrical Engineer.

First car was 70 Monte Carlo with a 350. Would drive it at 100-120mph on the highway every weekend. Once was dared to hit 100 in a quasi residential neighborhood. Two lanes each way but folks pared in the right lane sporadically. Hit 100 but didn't yet know KINETIC ENERGY = MxV2 (squared) takes at least 4 times the distance to stop when going 100 vs 50. Braking as hard as I could I blew thru a street light just as it turned to green still going 60 mph and locked the brakes up and went sideways barely stopping at the next light. But it was an Emergency. The tap at our keg party (I was 17) had broken and I had to get a new one quickly :oops:

I also knew 2 brothers that were killed the second day after one had bought a late 70's trans am. Wrapped it around a tree. This happened when I was 15. I went to the closed casket wake and still did it and lots more.

Take Care,

Wally.
Polymath
Posts: 135
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:52 am

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by Polymath »

Has he expressed interest in classic cars for a long time or is this a new thing?

I always loved cars as a kid and looked to getting my drivers license as a critical moment in my life. I had scrimped and saved to by a late 80's Fox Body Mustang GT. Due my long interest and investment in that car I treated it well and drove smart. Another key thing for me was getting hooked in with the local dragstrip where I learned to race in a controlled environment and literally had no interest in show boating around town because I knew what real racing was about.

FWIW, if my kid show discipline and long standing interest I'll nurture it when the time comes. If it proves to be a situation where the interest appears fleeting or they show a general disregard for rules and safety then no way. In other words, I feel it depends on the kid what kind of car is appropriate for them.
Jack FFR1846
Posts: 18502
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:05 am
Location: 26 miles, 385 yards west of Copley Square

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

tadamsmar wrote: Heck, almost nobody every learns how to optimally brake in a car without brake assist.
Sadly, this is true. I did teach my son emergency maneuvering, threshold braking and enough to make him somewhat skillful in his first car...a 91 Honda CRX (manual, of course). He did make use of the skill when coming over a backwoods narrow road and facing a "deer in the headlights" one night. His first reaction was to nail the brakes, but then quickly back off so the tires rolled. While at threshold, he was able to turn to avoid hitting the deer and turn the other way to avoid hitting a tree. Without being trained, he would have plowed into the deer. ABS is NOT as good slowing a car as threshold braking. ABS does allow mindless mashing of the brake and continued steering.

I do know that Tire Rack does teen driving courses around the country as do a number of car clubs. I very much recommend them for new drivers. I taught my son myself but was a high performance driving instructor for a dozen years and hold a number of track records and autocross championships. Autocross is an excellent place to get both fun and to learn driving skill.

My younger son is 15 and I'm already jumping through a few hoops to fund my first son's college expenses and end up with a manual car that I can drive for work and teach the younger son. I'll teach threshold braking (pull the ABS fuse). The Lotus is getting sold and if the incentives hold for another month, I'll likely buy a new Jetta as it's cheaper than a year old Impreza.

I don't know about the Nova. They have a lot of power and crap brakes. They handle worse than a new pickup and if you hit something head on, they simply kill the driver. I guess I'd vote against it. Also remember back in the 70's? A car that reached 100k miles was called a parts car or a scrapped car. There was no 100k mile digit on the odometer for good reason.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid
Zac russo
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:00 am

A modern muscle car for a 17 year old (?)

Post by Zac russo »

Guys I need advise I'm turning 17 in 2019 and I live in New Jersey so I don't get my license until I'm 17. And I want a modern muscle car but my dad doesn't want me to get a V8 so should I get the Dodge Challenger SXT or should I get the Dodge Challenger GT. And how much do you think those two models of Dodge Challengers would cost in 2019
bigdav160
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by bigdav160 »

I didn't read the rest of the replies.

I've always love old cars. I own them, I drive them and it's been a life long passion. I would ignore the suggestions that your son is die if he owns such a vehicle.

In my own life, when I was 16, I drove my Mother's '67 Corvette from Connecticut to Texas by myself (we were moving). I then (at 17) bought a 1940 Ford which I drove back up to Connecticut. Sold that one, hitchhiked to Detroit where my Grandparents live and bought a 1951 Buick Special. I drove that car back to Texas during a snow storm. That Buick made several long trips, Colorado, Old Mexico.... it was super smooth, comfortable and reliable.

And you no what? I lived! I don't think there's much in life that's worthwhile that doesn't involve a little bit of risk.

Y'all should try it.
chmcnm
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:23 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by chmcnm »

bigdav160 wrote: Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:21 pm And you no what? I lived! I don't think there's much in life that's worthwhile that doesn't involve a little bit of risk.
Y'all should try it.
I would vote NO on the Nova or any car like it. My 48 year-old self would agree with the above statement. The 48 year-old father of two teenage boys...not so much.

I'm thinking back to my teenage years plus my buddies kids are now driving. Pretty much every teenage male I knew/know with over a 300HP car wrapped it around a pole or worse. It sucks being the adult but I think this is a bad idea. Wait until college graduation for a classic car if he's still interested.
4nwestsaylng
Posts: 516
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:03 am

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by 4nwestsaylng »

A classic car is really a second or third car for an owner; it is not dependable as a daily driver, it may be needing to be worked on for many weekends, and it is definitely not for drives far from home.

In addition, in this crazy world, does he really want to be high profile on the road with an eye catching classic? There are gang types who would shoot him for the car, just for the joyride.

I love classics, but they really are for an adult with money, and even then I have learned you are better to buy them all restored;you can never get back all the time and money of the restore, unless you want that to be a life hobby, which is also ok.

I think you should buy him a used Volvo and pay the repairs when it is needed. Then let him think about a classic car. If he has 8K he really should just sock it away and let it grow. Some day he will then be able to really afford something, in the meantime he will be generally safe in the Volvo. Unlike the BMW and Mercedes,the Volvo is not an attention getter;that is good in his case.

If he does want to learn mechanics, he should take a course at the community college. If he decided to buy a Mercedes sedan or an SL from the 90s (the Sl in the 90''s is very safe, with roller) he could learn how to fix a European car, which could save him a lot during his lifetime if he wants to drive those cars in the future.Even the 1980 Mercedes had many safety features over the American cars. If the body and interior are good, he could make it a project car for engine work and learn a lot, and end up with a great car.

For daily driver, a Volvo sedan or the XC90, ten years old.
rebellovw
Posts: 1748
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:30 pm

Re: Classic Car for Teen Driver(?)

Post by rebellovw »

I'm so glad I grew up when I did. I would have been pissed if my dad tried to prevent me from getting a hot rod. Was my passion.

Today is really just not a good time to be a young person with a hot rod - tickets are just way too expensive. I had probably 5-6 tickets in one year - always about 30.00 to pay them off.

Our safe times are kids boring as heck times.
Post Reply