Should I do free oil change every six months?

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McCharley
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Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by McCharley »

I have a 2011 Toyota Tacoma pickup which I don't drive much. Under contract with Toyota I could change my oil every six months for free. I was encouraged to do this by the Toyota mechanic when I had my oil changed today for the first time (1 year, ~1200 miles). This seems wasteful and excessive even if it is free, though. :|

I had thought the rule of thumb was once a year or every 5000 miles. :confused But the mechanic says to come after 6 months? The oil on the dipstick was pristine, for what it's worth.

What do you think? Change after 600 miles for free? Or stick to a yearly schedule and free up an afternoon a year?
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by LadyGeek »

Look in your owners manual, which should define the oil change interval based on driving conditions.

If you do a lot of short range trips, say only a few miles a day, that could be considered as severe engine service and require frequent changes. There's no chance for the oil to circulate and properly do it's job - that takes about 20 minutes or longer. Your mechanic might be right. The oil on your dipstick always looks pristine. Take a look at the sludge draining from the oil pan at your next change.
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cheese_breath
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by cheese_breath »

You're a Boglehead, and you don't accept free stuff? :shock:
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BogleBrit
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by BogleBrit »

The maintenance plan on my BMW has oil changes (full synthetic) every 12 months or when the computer says it is needed based on condition, generally around 15k miles I believe. The majority of complaints on forums is that the recomended schedule is too infrequent. The 2 main takeaways I get from the discussions are 1) doing it more frequently (and paying out of pocket in those cases) is better for the car long term and 2) do not create a situation where something could happen to the car that could be linked to you not following the recommendations and as a result void the warranty. Since it has been free and the service dept experience has been fine I've just followed the guidelines so far.
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by Anon1234 »

Oil can oxidize with zero miles driven. Change the oil.
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grabiner
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by grabiner »

The problem with the "free" oil changes is that they often aren't free. When I bought my car, it came with free oil changes for life, but only as long as the entire maintenance was done at the dealer. Thus the first oil change would have been free, but the second would have cost me the difference between what the dealer charged for the 15K service and what my local mechanic charged.

(And even the first one wasn't really free; the dealer was 15 miles from home and 20 miles from work, so the cost of driving to the dealer, both in time and in mileage, wasn't worth it.)

Thus, you should change your oil on the appropriate schedule, but not necessarily for free.
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by rustymutt »

Anon1234 wrote:Oil can oxidize with zero miles driven. Change the oil.
Not high quality synthetic oils.
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by cheese_breath »

BogleBrit wrote:The maintenance plan on my BMW has oil changes (full synthetic) every 12 months or when the computer says it is needed based on condition, generally around 15k miles I believe. The majority of complaints on forums is that the recomended schedule is too infrequent. The 2 main takeaways I get from the discussions are 1) doing it more frequently (and paying out of pocket in those cases) is better for the car long term and 2) do not create a situation where something could happen to the car that could be linked to you not following the recommendations and as a result void the warranty. Since it has been free and the service dept experience has been fine I've just followed the guidelines so far.
Great advice. Over my long, long life I've experienced three cases that cost me a lot because I followed the manufacturer's recommendations. In each case the problem didn't manifest itself until the vehicle was out of warrenty, but never should have happened at all if the vehicless were properly maintained. But then, I thought they were properly maintained. After all I followed the manufacturer's recommendations.
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by TheGreyingDuke »

Engines are better, tolerances are tighter, gas is no longer diluting oil as in the past, and some still insist on 3000 miles oil changes. Millions of gallons of polluted oil is created by excessive changes and there is no evidence, apart from one-off speculations, that anything other than the manufacturer's recommnedation, is called for. The new monitoring systems on cars like the BMW are terrific and can save you lots of money over the years.

I have used only synthetic oil and OEM filters, stay away from cheapo oil change places or bring your own from the dealer, and all has been good.

Look here http://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/UsedOil/OilChange/ for the environmental hazards of too frequent changes.
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by Bongleur »

YES. And before you take it in, remove 1 quart and save it. Use the nearly new oil to change into your other car, or give it to a friend.

The dealer has to pay to dispose of the oil, so you are not taking advantage of anything -- actually you are reducing his costs.
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by DTSC »

You are a Boglehead. Why do you own a truck but only drive it 1200 miles? :confused

Sell the truck and rent one the next time you have to haul something around! :happy
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by daytona084 »

Bongleur wrote:YES. And before you take it in, remove 1 quart and save it. Use the nearly new oil to change into your other car, or give it to a friend.

The dealer has to pay to dispose of the oil, so you are not taking advantage of anything -- actually you are reducing his costs.
I assume you are joking. But it's not easy to tell. Are you serious? How does one remove one quart of oil? Drain all the oil and put all but one quart back in? All for a quart of used oil?
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Epsilon Delta
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by Epsilon Delta »

wjwhitney wrote:[ How does one remove one quart of oil?
By pipette through the dip hole. :shock:
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aja8888
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by aja8888 »

Actually, the best way to determine if you need an oil change is to pull a sample and send it off for analysis at a lab like Blackstone. They will provide you with the analysis and will tell you how much of the additive package is left (TBN) and the presence (concentration of) of contaminants and wear metals (CU, FE, etc). I do this with my diesel and have determined I can easily go 15,000 miles before I switch oil out. Of course, I use one of the best "5w 40 CJ"or equivalent oils, preferably Group II or higher synthetic. 8-)

Now, if I was the OP, or some of you folks who probably know a lot about many things, but maybe not much about modern engines and vastly improved oils, I would just change it according to the car manufacturer's recommendation for the driving service the car sees. And don't forget to use the right grade and service duty oil. Oh, make sure you change the filter (but please don't cheap out with a Fram). :oops:
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Frugal Al
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by Frugal Al »

wjwhitney wrote: How does one remove one quart of oil?
I've had good luck using the Fumoto Oil Drain Valve http://www.quickoildrainvalve.com/. It works well to pull a small sample for Blackstone as well. Another method is to use a dip stick pump. I'm not sure I'd waste the time with conventional oil, but if that was synthetic oil with 1200 miles I'd definitely do it.

For the OP, it does seem wasteful even if it's free (plus it takes your time). As another poster suggested it really depends upon how those 1200 miles are put on the vehicle. If it's a lot of short trips or towing I'd change it out. If not, you're good for a year. It doesn't surprise me that the oil looked pristine--it probably was. Maybe for your peace of mind it is worth sending off a sample to Blackstone Labs : $35 with TBN test.
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by MidnightX »

If an inspection is included with your oil change, the time and cost to drive to the appointment may be worth it, especially as your vehicles ages. However, be sure to get a second opinion elsewhere to be sure the work is needed and the price is fair.

ETA: Trying to be more Chaz-like. :)
Last edited by MidnightX on Sat May 26, 2012 2:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by hicabob »

Bongleur wrote:YES. And before you take it in, remove 1 quart and save it. Use the nearly new oil to change into your other car, or give it to a friend.

The dealer has to pay to dispose of the oil, so you are not taking advantage of anything -- actually you are reducing his costs.

Wow! - that takes thriftiness to a new plane! :!:
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by Toons »

I recently purchased a Honda Fit.
The onboard maintenence minder has an oil life meter that
I will follow.Currently I have driven 4k miles and I am at 70%.
When it get to around 15% I will have the oil changed.No plans
to have it done regarding at specific time intervals(3,6 months etc)
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Frugal Al
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by Frugal Al »

For my Honda vehicles with the Maintenance Minder (MM), I change it by whatever comes first: one year or whatever the MM recommends. The MM is supposed to be accurate, but why it can't tell when a year is up is beyond me. It's not that big of a deal because I use synthetic anyway.
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by 2b2 »

Slightly off-topic, so forgive me.
Does anyone know, with a reasonable degree of certainty, if synthetic oil breaks down over time?
Remove mileage considerations - can one leave synthetic oil unchanged indefinitely?
Thanks.
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by Carl53 »

DTSC wrote:You are a Boglehead. Why do you own a truck but only drive it 1200 miles? :confused

Sell the truck and rent one the next time you have to haul something around! :happy
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by OAG »

wjwhitney wrote:
Bongleur wrote:YES. And before you take it in, remove 1 quart and save it. Use the nearly new oil to change into your other car, or give it to a friend.

The dealer has to pay to dispose of the oil, so you are not taking advantage of anything -- actually you are reducing his costs.
I assume you are joking. But it's not easy to tell. Are you serious? How does one remove one quart of oil? Drain all the oil and put all but one quart back in? All for a quart of used oil?
Use a "Fluid Evac" I never go under a car any more - too old now. This (7400) works just fine and takes all of about 10 minutes to change the oil and filter: http://www.mityvac.com/pages/products_fee.asp#07201
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by ataloss »

I recently purchased a Honda Fit.
The onboard maintenence minder has an oil life meter that
I will follow.Currently I have driven 4k miles and I am at 70%.
When it get to around 15% I will have the oil changed.No plans
to have it done regarding at specific time intervals(3,6 months etc)
Does your owner's manual say to do that? Mine doesn't. I just get it changed before it gets to 0.
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McCharley
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by McCharley »

The manual says every 5,000 miles or 6 months. Still seems wasteful to me after only 600 miles.

And I have to go do it. :annoyed
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by Toons »

ataloss wrote:
I recently purchased a Honda Fit.
The onboard maintenence minder has an oil life meter that
I will follow.Currently I have driven 4k miles and I am at 70%.
When it get to around 15% I will have the oil changed.No plans
to have it done regarding at specific time intervals(3,6 months etc)
Does your owner's manual say to do that? Mine doesn't. I just get it changed before it gets to 0.

I don't believe it mentions 15% but that is just an interval that I am comfortable with :happy :happy
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by gkaplan »

The oil indicator on my Fit currently reads 15%. I plan on waiting until 5% before I get my oil changed.
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by LadyGeek »

McCharley wrote:The manual says every 5,000 miles or 6 months. Still seems wasteful to me after only 600 miles.

And I have to go do it. :annoyed
It's both time and miles. You hit time first. I drove 2,400 miles last year (low commute) - the oil got changed after a year. OTOH, cars with less than 5,000 miles in one year in PA are not required to have emissions testing to pass inspection. I saved $$$ on that.
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by tooluser »

I have used non-synthetic oil and followed the owner's manual (3000 or 3750 miles) while my cars were under warranty.
After that, I switched to synthetic oil and 1 year or 10,000 mile intervals, whichever comes first. (If it were not synthetic I would do it at 6 months or 5000 miles.)
Since neither car gets more than 10,000 miles a year, I have it changed it once a year on both. Usually on the same day.
And usually at a quick oil change place. It's convenient and I know what to expect. Price is about the same. I have seen no evidence that dealers or local garages are any more honest or dishonest, or that they somehow drain more sludge out of the crankcase, or that they care more about me as a person.
I'd do it myself except that I learned many years ago that I am not good at such things, or that such things are not good for me, or probably both.
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by Frugal Al »

2b2 wrote:Does anyone know, with a reasonable degree of certainty, if synthetic oil breaks down over time?
Remove mileage considerations - can one leave synthetic oil unchanged indefinitely?
Because syn oil additives don't break down with age as readily as dino oil, many owners of "garage queens" and other low mileage cars prefer it. I have personally gone for periods of two years on a vehicle that only saw 3000 miles per year. I was curious and an oil test said it was still good after 2 years. It was never driven on short trips. I wouldn't, however, let it go indefinitely without a test.
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by thomase »

I have 3 vehicles, 15, 12, and 8 years old. I change the oil once a year on each using synthetic, put on about 7K miles per year each. Technically I should be changing it based on time every 6 months but it seems like such a waste of natural resources. Bought all vehicles new, no problems at all on any of them.
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by Epsilon Delta »

Destroying an engine is also a waste of resources. I'm not saying how often you should change the oil but I'd rather waste a few pounds of oil a year than a few hundred pounds of aluminum and steel.
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by ataloss »

I don't believe it mentions 15% but that is just an interval that I am comfortable with

It took me a while to get comfortable to going beyond 3000 miles based on my grandfather's recommendation. Now I go 8000 between oil changes. I never developed a comfort percentage and my owner's manuals don't require changes at 15%.
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by norookie »

NIKE SAYS JUST DO IT! :mrgreen: Its like getting a blood transfusion! Just beware of the wipers, windshield washer, and other needless things you'll be offered during your DEALER SERVICE. JMO
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by Toons »

ataloss wrote:I don't believe it mentions 15% but that is just an interval that I am comfortable with

It took me a while to get comfortable to going beyond 3000 miles based on my grandfather's recommendation. Now I go 8000 between oil changes. I never developed a comfort percentage and my owner's manuals don't require changes at 15%.
Thanks,I think you have convinced me :happy

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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by Mudpuppy »

norookie wrote:NIKE SAYS JUST DO IT! :mrgreen: Its like getting a blood transfusion! Just beware of the wipers, windshield washer, and other needless things you'll be offered during your DEALER SERVICE. JMO
My dealer has never charged for those other things, except $8 for both wiper inserts with free labor to install. Incidentals like topping off fluids (e.g the windshield washer fluid) or checking the tire pressure is included in their standard oil change charge, which is competitive with the "quick lube" places around town (and I often can find a 15% off or free tire rotation with oil change coupon for them). Perhaps that's because my dealer actually offers just an oil change, no xyz mile service required, over in their "quick service" department. The only time they've asked for more during one of these "quick service" oil changes is when my battery was 6 years old and finally failed the battery test. I don't think they were gouging me on that one. Not all dealerships are out to drain your pocketbook when you enter the door.
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by hazlitt777 »

McCharley wrote:I have a 2011 Toyota Tacoma pickup which I don't drive much. Under contract with Toyota I could change my oil every six months for free. I was encouraged to do this by the Toyota mechanic when I had my oil changed today for the first time (1 year, ~1200 miles). This seems wasteful and excessive even if it is free, though. :|

I had thought the rule of thumb was once a year or every 5000 miles. :confused But the mechanic says to come after 6 months? The oil on the dipstick was pristine, for what it's worth.

What do you think? Change after 600 miles for free? Or stick to a yearly schedule and free up an afternoon a year?
I have an old 1978 Bronco as my second vehicle and only put around 1500-2000 a year on it. I change the oil every 6 months. I do this because the oil can degrade with time even with low mileage. I would emphasis if you do not want to waste oil, tell them to put regular oil in, not synthetic. If they put synthetic in, then I think you are right to ask whether every 6 months is wasteful. My two cents.
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by Bongleur »

I don't change mine very often because when it gets nice and sludgy the leaks stop...
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by 2b2 »

Thanks to those who answered my question regarding synthetic oil.

2b2
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by tim1999 »

I'd do the "free" oil change every 6 months, and also take advantage of any free coffee and snacks provided in the waiting room. Since I'm a car guy, I like to get early AM appointments for service (before the salespeople show up at 9) and check out/sit in all of the shiny new cars in the showroom to kill time.
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by k-slice »

If you find it inconvenient to go there, do not bother. The oil is fine for at least 3000 miles.
Another poster mentioned what they do in Europe and BMWs, but the difference is synthetic oil is much better than the regular oil we normally use in the USA. The synthetic oil is also much more expensive.
So, if you like to go there and have them change it for free, it's just a matter of your time and aggravation to do it.
Personally I would probably just drive the car and have fun. 8-)
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by cheese_breath »

I change my oil every 4,000 miles regardless of what the oil indicator says. I trust that thing about as much as I trust the gas guage on my Silverado that hasn't worked for five years. It will probably work fine, but I'm not about to risk my engine to find out it doesn't.
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by jayars35 »

To the posters with mileage minders on their cars, does the device measure miles or hours of operation?

As far as "cheapo" oil change places, the oil they sell is no different than what your dealer sells. Here in North Carolina, the state dept of agriculture tests oil samples from all of these places and tests them for viscosity and some additives. My sister in law that did the testing said they never found any issues with the oil sold anywhere in the last 15 years. The one time they did, it was not at a Jiffy Lube type place but from a small oil company's bottles on a store shelf.

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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by grabiner »

jayars35 wrote:To the posters with mileage minders on their cars, does the device measure miles or hours of operation?
The device measures miles driven, and how the car is driven. When I lived in Maryland, commuted on the freeway, and did most of my driving on high-speed roads, the maintenance minder told me to change the oil after 8000 miles. Since I moved to New Jersey, make many more short trips, and have a lot of stop-and-go driving just to reach the freeway, it tells me to change the oil after 6000 miles.
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by aja8888 »

My 2000 Jetta diesel just turned 192,000 miles. I change the oil (full synthetic) and filter every 10,000 (or thereabouts). Fuel filter and air filters get changed every 20,000 miles.

The engine is as tight as day one and only uses about 1/2 quart in 10,000 miles. When I change the oil (I do it myself), I also get the tires rotated. When I looked at my car maintenance spreadsheet, I noticed I just passed 80,000 miles on my Michelin Hydroedge tires (they still have decent tread left). Car maintenance should not be a mystery as cars nowadays are much better engineered for longevity than the older ones. This assume you treat them right and not like your lawn mower. :wink:
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by ejvyas »

I just follow manufacturer's recommendations unless the mechanic says I need brakes/tires/fluid flushes ahead of time. I buy my own synthetic oil and high performance oil filter and just use local shop mechanic labor for oil changes.

Since Toyota recommends 6 month oil changes for 2011 Tacoma I would go for it
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by jayars35 »

What do some consider a high performance filter and why? I use Purolator, AC Delco, NAPA, CarQuest and even Advance Auto store brand. Never any problems.

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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by mmmodem »

I just follow the owner's manual. I've never heard of a car manufacturer say their car is too reliable and they need to make them less reliable with infrequent recommended maintenance. (Although it would make it for some juicy conspiracy theory for why we need to keep buying new cars.) I do often hear of manufacturers trying to get rated higher on JD Power for reliability every year.

For my Honda Civic, I run the maintenance minder down to 0% or 12 months. It's what Honda recommends. I see no reason to do it at 15%. I run conventional oil as Honda recommends at around 10,000 miles that is my usual interval. My dad's Corolla gets changed every 5k. Mom's Civic gets changed at 3400 miles because it took 12 months for her to go that distance.

So if Toyota recommends 5k/6 months OCI. I would do it whether it was free or not.
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by ataloss »

The device measures miles driven, and how the car is driven. When I lived in Maryland, commuted on the freeway, and did most of my driving on high-speed roads, the maintenance minder told me to change the oil after 8000 miles. Since I moved to New Jersey, make many more short trips, and have a lot of stop-and-go driving just to reach the freeway, it tells me to change the oil after 6000 miles.
Interesting. I drive more highway miles and my wife drives more city (but not to congested) we are both getting the 8,000 mile oil change reading from the maintenance minder.
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by NHRATA01 »

jayars35 wrote:What do some consider a high performance filter and why? I use Purolator, AC Delco, NAPA, CarQuest and even Advance Auto store brand. Never any problems.

Coach
Most all of those are fine. Napa is made by Wix (I think even the Napa brand is about gone and they're sold at Napa as Wix now) who supplies Nascar teams and makes a quality product. Really the one to avoid is Fram which is basically universal junk made cheap. In any event, you can google a number of websites that did independent comparisons of oil filters, or if you really want to be a nerd about it, read through the forums at bobistheoilguy.com, which is an entire forum devoted to automotive lubricant performance and filtration.
wander
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Re: Should I do free oil change every six months?

Post by wander »

McCharley wrote:I have a 2011 Toyota Tacoma pickup which I don't drive much. Under contract with Toyota I could change my oil every six months for free. I was encouraged to do this by the Toyota mechanic when I had my oil changed today for the first time (1 year, ~1200 miles). This seems wasteful and excessive even if it is free, though. :|

I had thought the rule of thumb was once a year or every 5000 miles. :confused But the mechanic says to come after 6 months? The oil on the dipstick was pristine, for what it's worth.

What do you think? Change after 600 miles for free? Or stick to a yearly schedule and free up an afternoon a year?
I think this service didn't come free and you might have wasted money on it.
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