Considering moving from NYC
Considering moving from NYC
Hi, I've lived in NYC for my entire adult life. All the typical reasons to sacrifice quality of life (outdoor, space etc...) were why I've stayed. Career, Arts, Culture, Diversity, Energy. Now we are contemplating whether the premium is worth it (prices haven't changed much here-particularly housing). Been dreaming of warmer climate more reasonable cost of living (we work for ourselves-no children-can be anywhere). Wondering if there are any people on the board that have left NYC only to crave returning or are happy with their choice? Any pros/cons input? Thank you.
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Friends of mine who left crave to return for family reasons but also the feel of a city. They say outside of NYC, people drive everywhere, especially the South, even in bigger cities and it is difficult to interact with people since it's a very common thing to people-watch in NYC and see how other people live. I won't say it is easier to meet people in NYC because there is really a good number of crazies concentrated in a large city, but one thing that makes this city unique is the ability to meet people from every angle of the world and interact.
You'll miss out on randomly cool stuff like the High Line. Did you get to see that in person, Saggy?
You'll miss out on randomly cool stuff like the High Line. Did you get to see that in person, Saggy?
I've seen the High Line (walked along it a few times) I've pretty much seen it all when it comes to NYC. Crazies as well (although I may be considered one of them)jridger2011 wrote:Friends of mine who left crave to return for family reasons but also the feel of a city. They say outside of NYC, people drive everywhere, especially the South, even in bigger cities and it is difficult to interact with people since it's a very common thing to people-watch in NYC and see how other people live. I won't say it is easier to meet people in NYC because there is really a good number of crazies concentrated in a large city, but one thing that makes this city unique is the ability to meet people from every angle of the world and interact.
You'll miss out on randomly cool stuff like the High Line. Did you get to see that in person, Saggy?
I used to live near NYC. There are few, if any, places like NYC in the USA.
That said, there are interesting other places to live with good restaurants and activities. For example, you could live near the Museum District in Houston if you can stand the warm weather.
I live in a suburb in The South now and meet many, many people just walking the dog. Of course, your dog has to be well-behaved and look good or people will just not stop to talk to you. Also you cannot limit your walk to 3 blocks because you might only see 5 people instead of 20 or more.
Yes, I know that you will see 20 people in the first 10 yards in parts of NYC, but where I live those 20 people will say "Hello!" to you.
There are some very cheap places to live within an hour's drive of NYC, so if you miss the city, you can always go in on a weekend. Or think outside the box: Live where there are good airline connections to NY.
That said, there are interesting other places to live with good restaurants and activities. For example, you could live near the Museum District in Houston if you can stand the warm weather.
I live in a suburb in The South now and meet many, many people just walking the dog. Of course, your dog has to be well-behaved and look good or people will just not stop to talk to you. Also you cannot limit your walk to 3 blocks because you might only see 5 people instead of 20 or more.
Yes, I know that you will see 20 people in the first 10 yards in parts of NYC, but where I live those 20 people will say "Hello!" to you.
There are some very cheap places to live within an hour's drive of NYC, so if you miss the city, you can always go in on a weekend. Or think outside the box: Live where there are good airline connections to NY.
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If you've done it all in NYC and have no reason to stay for career or family, it's probably time to go. One thing really trying about NYC is transportation. Yes, we have the greatest system in the world that anyone can get anywhere with a fare, but going from one borough to another can take hours, try going from Staten Island to Queens for example. Another grinder is parking, bad driving from cabbies to recent immigrants, and alternate side parking rules. Getting pushed and shoved every day on trains and buses does get old over time.
What is your laundry situation? Got a laundry room? Maybe you'd like your own washer/dryer outside of the city some day.
What is your laundry situation? Got a laundry room? Maybe you'd like your own washer/dryer outside of the city some day.
Good points. I never owned a car in NY. Complete pain. We have a washer dryer so that itch has been scratched. I've always lived near my office or worked from home so barely have to get on a train. Lots of walking.jridger2011 wrote:If you've done it all in NYC and have no reason to stay for career or family, it's probably time to go. One thing really trying about NYC is transportation. Yes, we have the greatest system in the world that anyone can get anywhere with a fare, but going from one borough to another can take hours, try going from Staten Island to Queens for example. Another grinder is parking, bad driving from cabbies to recent immigrants, and alternate side parking rules. Getting pushed and shoved every day on trains and buses does get old over time.
What is your laundry situation? Got a laundry room? Maybe you'd like your own washer/dryer outside of the city some day.
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Wow, it seems like you have an ideal NYC living situation, your own washer/dryer and short or no commute. That is a big deal - most folks take a few trains or a combo of trains and buses to get to their jobs. The day is really long for most commuters because of train detours, delays, and everything that seems against us, like foul weather. You don't have those issues, your NYC life does not seem like you're one missed train before a meltdown.Saggy wrote:Good points. I never owned a car in NY. Complete pain. We have a washer dryer so that itch has been scratched. I've always lived near my office or worked from home so barely have to get on a train. Lots of walking.jridger2011 wrote:If you've done it all in NYC and have no reason to stay for career or family, it's probably time to go. One thing really trying about NYC is transportation. Yes, we have the greatest system in the world that anyone can get anywhere with a fare, but going from one borough to another can take hours, try going from Staten Island to Queens for example. Another grinder is parking, bad driving from cabbies to recent immigrants, and alternate side parking rules. Getting pushed and shoved every day on trains and buses does get old over time.
What is your laundry situation? Got a laundry room? Maybe you'd like your own washer/dryer outside of the city some day.
Another funny thing about city living is looking at the weather plan to figure out items to buy at the grocery store and how much you are able to carry based on what you need and the weather. I've seen folks carry tons of groceries on trains to save money, but really a trying experience when it snows/sleets/rains.
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How do you feel about foreign travel? You sound like an ideal candidate for expatriation. There are plenty of cities around the world that have decent weather, high energy, walkability, and lower prices than NYC.
Of course, parts of the US meet these qualifications as well: I know Austin TX and Seattle first-hand, and I'm sure some of the older cities in the SE would work. I think you've got to spend more time figuring out just what you want.
Of course, parts of the US meet these qualifications as well: I know Austin TX and Seattle first-hand, and I'm sure some of the older cities in the SE would work. I think you've got to spend more time figuring out just what you want.
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This is actually an excellent idea, though it depends on one's career. What about Amsterdam or Munich? Or SF (which really is significantly cheaper than NYC and certainly easier to live in, which I say as an NY resident who previously lived in SF)?Alex Frakt wrote:How do you feel about foreign travel? You sound like an ideal candidate for expatriation. There are plenty of cities around the world that have decent weather, high energy, walkability, and lower prices than NYC.
Of course, parts of the US meet these qualifications as well: I know Austin TX and Seattle first-hand, and I'm sure some of the older cities in the SE would work. I think you've got to spend more time figuring out just what you want.
I did not have a w/d for 90% of my time here. Recent event when I moved rentals (I do not own and probably never will in NYC) It's nice to have but they're electric so it can take 5 years to do one dryer load. As for food I have long learned to do Fresh Direct. It's worth the delivery charge and if I forget something I can go to the regular grocery or Trader Joes nearby etc...Now...If I moved we could actually have a vented dryer or even possibly line dry clothesjridger2011 wrote:Wow, it seems like you have an ideal NYC living situation, your own washer/dryer and short or no commute. That is a big deal - most folks take a few trains or a combo of trains and buses to get to their jobs. The day is really long for most commuters because of train detours, delays, and everything that seems against us, like foul weather. You don't have those issues, your NYC life does not seem like you're one missed train before a meltdown.Saggy wrote:Good points. I never owned a car in NY. Complete pain. We have a washer dryer so that itch has been scratched. I've always lived near my office or worked from home so barely have to get on a train. Lots of walking.jridger2011 wrote:If you've done it all in NYC and have no reason to stay for career or family, it's probably time to go. One thing really trying about NYC is transportation. Yes, we have the greatest system in the world that anyone can get anywhere with a fare, but going from one borough to another can take hours, try going from Staten Island to Queens for example. Another grinder is parking, bad driving from cabbies to recent immigrants, and alternate side parking rules. Getting pushed and shoved every day on trains and buses does get old over time.
What is your laundry situation? Got a laundry room? Maybe you'd like your own washer/dryer outside of the city some day.
Another funny thing about city living is looking at the weather plan to figure out items to buy at the grocery store and how much you are able to carry based on what you need and the weather. I've seen folks carry tons of groceries on trains to save money, but really a trying experience when it snows/sleets/rains.
My husband and I have both travelled the world for work. US is the way to go for us. I understood SF to be on par with NY?metacritic wrote:This is actually an excellent idea, though it depends on one's career. What about Amsterdam or Munich? Or SF (which really is significantly cheaper than NYC and certainly easier to live in, which I say as an NY resident who previously lived in SF)?Alex Frakt wrote:How do you feel about foreign travel? You sound like an ideal candidate for expatriation. There are plenty of cities around the world that have decent weather, high energy, walkability, and lower prices than NYC.
Of course, parts of the US meet these qualifications as well: I know Austin TX and Seattle first-hand, and I'm sure some of the older cities in the SE would work. I think you've got to spend more time figuring out just what you want.
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I was thinking San Francisco as well. It seems to be the easiest US city for dyed-in-the-wool New Yorkers to adapt to. I think it's the density and high energy they are used to with a different enough vibe coming from the Asia versus Europe orientation that they don't feel like they are merely in a lesser version of NYC - which often happens to New Yorkers who go to cities like Boston or Philly. The drawbacks are that housing is still expensive and cramped in the places you want to be - not to NYC levels, but closer than anywhere else in the US - and the weather is flat-out weird. It doesn't go below freezing, but it's hardly ever really warm if that's what the OP is looking for.metacritic wrote:What about Amsterdam or Munich? Or SF (which really is significantly cheaper than NYC and certainly easier to live in, which I say as an NY resident who previously lived in SF)?
Amsterdam and Munich's weather aren't all that much better than NYC either. I was thinking more along the lines of Buenos Aires, Barcelona, Istanbul, Santiago, Sydney.
These are all very thrilling locations. I was thinking something more a bit more frugal. Was also wondering if any one on the board had made the move out of NY and how they found the experience..do they miss it? not?Alex Frakt wrote:I was thinking San Francisco as well. It seems to be the easiest US city for dyed-in-the-wool New Yorkers to adapt to. I think it's the density and high energy they are used to with a different enough vibe coming from the Asia versus Europe orientation that they don't feel like they are merely in a lesser version of NYC - which often happens to New Yorkers who go to cities like Boston or Philly. The drawbacks are that housing is still expensive and cramped in the places you want to be - not to NYC levels, but closer than anywhere else in the US - and the weather is flat-out weird. It doesn't go below freezing, but it's hardly ever really warm if that's what the OP is looking for.metacritic wrote:What about Amsterdam or Munich? Or SF (which really is significantly cheaper than NYC and certainly easier to live in, which I say as an NY resident who previously lived in SF)?
Amsterdam and Munich's weather aren't all that much better than NYC either. I was thinking more along the lines of Buenos Aires, Barcelona, Istanbul, Santiago, Sydney.
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They are all cheaper than NYC. Buenos Aires in particular is a great deal at the moment.Saggy wrote:These are all very thrilling locations. I was thinking something more a bit more frugal.Alex Frakt wrote:...Amsterdam and Munich's weather aren't all that much better than NYC either. I was thinking more along the lines of Buenos Aires, Barcelona, Istanbul, Santiago, Sydney.
But in the US, if you want to save money, you might want to look at North Carolina. Chapel Hill, Charlotte and Winston-Salem all appear on various most livable cities lists. I doubt they qualify as high-energy though. Again, it's up to what you are looking for. There are plenty of places with unique attractions that might or might not be a good fit for you. Some example: Boulder, New Orleans, Miami, Charleston, San Diego, Santa Fe.
I can't help with being an ex-New Yorker, since I'm not one. But I know plenty of them and I have lived in Philly, SF, Los Angeles and Chicago (among others), so I have an idea of the attractions of the big city.Was also wondering if any one on the board had made the move out of NY and how they found the experience..do they miss it? not?
About 25 years ago I left NY for San Francisco. If were I to leave again, it's one of 3-4 cities that I would consider.
Going through an earthquake there; was one of several reasons that I left. The transient nature of my West Coast friends (never developed friends like I had/have in the East). Restaurants and theater are great in SF (possible second or third to NY). Weather was a plus. I have a car in NY and had on in SF, but I used it considerably more when in SF. Big plus for SF, access to great area (Yosemite, Kings Canyon, Sequoia, close by Muir Woods, Big Basin, Redwoods National Park and on and on). Nothing comparably near NY (though I do fly to wilderness areas every couple of years).
One serious option, in five years or so, is to spend 3 months in another area that I choose. When the time comes, I will make that decision.
As for areas ruled out:
Texas
Florida
Arizona
(most of the South)
Midwest
Areas I would consider
Seattle
San Francisco again
Denver
Vancouver
Austin (one exception to the Texas/South rule)
Going through an earthquake there; was one of several reasons that I left. The transient nature of my West Coast friends (never developed friends like I had/have in the East). Restaurants and theater are great in SF (possible second or third to NY). Weather was a plus. I have a car in NY and had on in SF, but I used it considerably more when in SF. Big plus for SF, access to great area (Yosemite, Kings Canyon, Sequoia, close by Muir Woods, Big Basin, Redwoods National Park and on and on). Nothing comparably near NY (though I do fly to wilderness areas every couple of years).
One serious option, in five years or so, is to spend 3 months in another area that I choose. When the time comes, I will make that decision.
As for areas ruled out:
Texas
Florida
Arizona
(most of the South)
Midwest
Areas I would consider
Seattle
San Francisco again
Denver
Vancouver
Austin (one exception to the Texas/South rule)
Last edited by Rob5TCP on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lived in NYC for 15 years. Left 16 years ago. My wife would move back in a NY minute; me not so much.
Perhaps a good compromise is to consider leaving the City and moving to CT or NJ or Westchester. Go far enough that you're not paying "commuter pricing" for housing, but not so far you can't get into the City for your fix.
Perhaps a good compromise is to consider leaving the City and moving to CT or NJ or Westchester. Go far enough that you're not paying "commuter pricing" for housing, but not so far you can't get into the City for your fix.
Never lived near NYC. However, I have moved around and experienced large capital cities and really small small Midwestern towns. Its a really big world. Go out and enjoy it. Only you will truly know how you feel about it. I enjoy living in small towns but also enjoy traveling to the larger cities.
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I like the idea of smaller quieter location but not having to travel far for a NYC fix. Albany NY for example has low cost housing,decent restaurants, a number of cultural activities and frequent train service to NYC(about 2.5 hours).
On the downside a car is needed and January and February can bring bad weather.On the upside Montreal and Boston not that far away
On the downside a car is needed and January and February can bring bad weather.On the upside Montreal and Boston not that far away
I moved to Rio about five years ago, after living in NYC for a couple of decades.
I have never looked back, although I was careful and test-drove via renting before making a home purchase.
Main draws for me: the culture; the climate; the gregarious cariocas which are a bit easier than new yorkers to meet (especially if you speak the language); the fact that it is a walking city in the Zona Sul (Ipanema, Copacabana etc); the bike paths everywhere; the beaches; the fact that it is a major metropolitan area; the proximity to mountain ranges (one hour by car); just the overall quality of life; and the fact that it is a travel hub to just about everywhere.
I traveled the world for work using NYC as a base and only considered major walking cities for expatriation. The only other cities considered: Barcelona, Buenos Aires, and Sydney.
When I moved here Rio was certainly a *lot* less expensive than it is today. But the cost-of-living increase since then has been overwhelminglhy exchange rate related, so it didn't really affect me too much as local interest rates have significantly exceeded inflation.
I have never looked back, although I was careful and test-drove via renting before making a home purchase.
Main draws for me: the culture; the climate; the gregarious cariocas which are a bit easier than new yorkers to meet (especially if you speak the language); the fact that it is a walking city in the Zona Sul (Ipanema, Copacabana etc); the bike paths everywhere; the beaches; the fact that it is a major metropolitan area; the proximity to mountain ranges (one hour by car); just the overall quality of life; and the fact that it is a travel hub to just about everywhere.
I traveled the world for work using NYC as a base and only considered major walking cities for expatriation. The only other cities considered: Barcelona, Buenos Aires, and Sydney.
When I moved here Rio was certainly a *lot* less expensive than it is today. But the cost-of-living increase since then has been overwhelminglhy exchange rate related, so it didn't really affect me too much as local interest rates have significantly exceeded inflation.
Thanks Marcos. I've been to Brazil a couple of times (Bahia). Beautiful Country.marcos123 wrote:Note: before taking the expatriation plunge, in addition to taking a test drive by renting first, be sure, as I did, to research, among many other issues:
- tax implications;
- expat property rights;
- health insurance; and of course,
- residency requirements.
I left New York to move to a non-coastal American city to take a great job. I regret it more than anything else I've ever done.
I've lived in many cities in the US (and abroad for that matter) and nothing is like New York. The things you listed ("Career, Arts, Culture, Diversity, Energy") are pale in comparison outside NY, no matter what big claims anyone makes about other American cities. International cities that come close to it are very few; for diversity I think only Bombay comes close.
Think long (LONG) and hard about it. If you think you might want to go, sublet for a month or two in the city you're trying out before you make a final decision.
I mean it when I say I regret leaving New York more than anything else I've ever done. Every single day.
I've lived in many cities in the US (and abroad for that matter) and nothing is like New York. The things you listed ("Career, Arts, Culture, Diversity, Energy") are pale in comparison outside NY, no matter what big claims anyone makes about other American cities. International cities that come close to it are very few; for diversity I think only Bombay comes close.
Think long (LONG) and hard about it. If you think you might want to go, sublet for a month or two in the city you're trying out before you make a final decision.
I mean it when I say I regret leaving New York more than anything else I've ever done. Every single day.
Keep in mind San Francisco is only a small part of the Bay Area, both population and geography-wise.Alex Frakt wrote:I was thinking San Francisco as well. It seems to be the easiest US city for dyed-in-the-wool New Yorkers to adapt to. I think it's the density and high energy they are used to with a different enough vibe coming from the Asia versus Europe orientation that they don't feel like they are merely in a lesser version of NYC - which often happens to New Yorkers who go to cities like Boston or Philly. The drawbacks are that housing is still expensive and cramped in the places you want to be - not to NYC levels, but closer than anywhere else in the US - and the weather is flat-out weird. It doesn't go below freezing, but it's hardly ever really warm if that's what the OP is looking for.metacritic wrote:What about Amsterdam or Munich? Or SF (which really is significantly cheaper than NYC and certainly easier to live in, which I say as an NY resident who previously lived in SF)?
While SF may have gloomy summers in some parts (not others, eg the Mission), the BA has plenty of sunnier areas, eg the East Bay.
For me, the BA provides an ideal combination of high incomes, perfect weather, and a wealth of both urban/culture and outdoor activities.
Nick
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My sister lived in NYC her entire post-college life, until she decided to move near Portland, Oregon. I thought she would go crazy without the city, but she has loved the change for quite a few years.
In large part, the Internet cushions the "culture" change. Amazon can get you most any book you want, overnight. Ditto Netflix for films. Good food can be had in small towns, although I don't imagine you can get a great bagel or slice of pizza in Oregon. She feels the trade-offs were mostly in her favor.
My other sister still lives in NYC because her job is there, but any day now ...
In large part, the Internet cushions the "culture" change. Amazon can get you most any book you want, overnight. Ditto Netflix for films. Good food can be had in small towns, although I don't imagine you can get a great bagel or slice of pizza in Oregon. She feels the trade-offs were mostly in her favor.
My other sister still lives in NYC because her job is there, but any day now ...
I think New York is not just books, or "culture," or food. New York is ambiance. You can find good food in many places, but New York is the company you have at your table, and conversations you overhear from other tables, and people you see through the restaurant window.Claude wrote:My sister lived in NYC her entire post-college life, until she decided to move near Portland, Oregon. I thought she would go crazy without the city, but she has loved the change for quite a few years.
In large part, the Internet cushions the "culture" change. Amazon can get you most any book you want, overnight. Ditto Netflix for films. Good food can be had in small towns, although I don't imagine you can get a great bagel or slice of pizza in Oregon. She feels the trade-offs were mostly in her favor.
My other sister still lives in NYC because her job is there, but any day now ...
You can buy books on Amazon.com and watch films on Netflix, but in New York you have people with whom you can have a meaningful conversation about these books and films. Face-to-face conversation that is.
Victoria
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Re: Considering moving from NYC
For obvious reasons, I cannot vote, but check out this blog of someone who left NY and is happy with her choice. Of course, she moved to Minneapolis, which is probably outside your choices for a destination.Saggy wrote:Hi, I've lived in NYC for my entire adult life. All the typical reasons to sacrifice quality of life (outdoor, space etc...) were why I've stayed. Career, Arts, Culture, Diversity, Energy. Now we are contemplating whether the premium is worth it (prices haven't changed much here-particularly housing). Been dreaming of warmer climate more reasonable cost of living (we work for ourselves-no children-can be anywhere). Wondering if there are any people on the board that have left NYC only to crave returning or are happy with their choice? Any pros/cons input? Thank you.
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True, but again it's about the balance the OP is seeking. He or she specifically mentioned "Arts, Culture, Diversity, Energy", nothing in there about outdoor recreation. It's also been my experience that the number one thing ex-New Yorkers miss is the lack of walkability in most US cities. This all tends to point to SF itself. Maybe close to the Ferry Terminal in Sausalito would work (it would for me ).yobria wrote:Keep in mind San Francisco is only a small part of the Bay Area, both population and geography-wise.Alex Frakt wrote:I was thinking San Francisco as well. It seems to be the easiest US city for dyed-in-the-wool New Yorkers to adapt to. I think it's the density and high energy... The drawbacks are that housing is still expensive and cramped in the places you want to be - not to NYC levels, but closer than anywhere else in the US - and the weather is flat-out weird. It doesn't go below freezing, but it's hardly ever really warm if that's what the OP is looking for.
While SF may have gloomy summers in some parts (not others, eg the Mission), the BA has plenty of sunnier areas, eg the East Bay.
For me, the BA provides an ideal combination of high incomes, perfect weather, and a wealth of both urban/culture and outdoor activities.
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Victoria, With all due respect, I believe it is possible to find people with whom to "have a meaningful conversation about [these] books and films" even in the wilds of Oregon. Or near Hanover, NH. In a pinch, even in suburban NJ where I liveVictoriaF wrote:I think New York is not just books, or "culture," or food. New York is ambiance. You can find good food in many places, but New York is the company you have at your table, and conversations you overhear from other tables, and people you see through the restaurant window.Claude wrote:My sister lived in NYC her entire post-college life, until she decided to move near Portland, Oregon. I thought she would go crazy without the city, but she has loved the change for quite a few years.
In large part, the Internet cushions the "culture" change. Amazon can get you most any book you want, overnight. Ditto Netflix for films. Good food can be had in small towns, although I don't imagine you can get a great bagel or slice of pizza in Oregon. She feels the trade-offs were mostly in her favor.
My other sister still lives in NYC because her job is there, but any day now ...
You can buy books on Amazon.com and watch films on Netflix, but in New York you have people with whom you can have a meaningful conversation about these books and films. Face-to-face conversation that is.
Victoria
The ambiance might be different, but an ambiance exists in those places also, and some people might even prefer it there -- my sister, for example. She was immersed in NYC culture and ambiance for 30 years. I worked in NYC for 20 years. My wife lived there for 20 years. It is a wonderful city. It is NOT the only place with beneficial ambiance.
I lived in NYC for about five years in the 1980s, after graduating from university. I returned to Ohio (where I was born) mostly because I could enjoy a higher standard of living economically and frankly, tired of having to carry dry-cleaning up to my fourth-floor walk-up after a hard day's work.
I encouraged myself by saying that I would use the money I saved to visit NYC often and would stay in nice hotels and eat at the best restaurants when I visited...
That was over 25 years ago, and I've been in NYC approximately only three times since then.
If you move, prepare to close the door on that period of your life and don't look back.
I encouraged myself by saying that I would use the money I saved to visit NYC often and would stay in nice hotels and eat at the best restaurants when I visited...
That was over 25 years ago, and I've been in NYC approximately only three times since then.
If you move, prepare to close the door on that period of your life and don't look back.
Re: Considering moving from NYC
I will absolutely enjoy reading her blog. Thanks for turning me onto it.porcupine wrote:For obvious reasons, I cannot vote, but check out this blog of someone who left NY and is happy with her choice. Of course, she moved to Minneapolis, which is probably outside your choices for a destination.Saggy wrote:Hi, I've lived in NYC for my entire adult life. All the typical reasons to sacrifice quality of life (outdoor, space etc...) were why I've stayed. Career, Arts, Culture, Diversity, Energy. Now we are contemplating whether the premium is worth it (prices haven't changed much here-particularly housing). Been dreaming of warmer climate more reasonable cost of living (we work for ourselves-no children-can be anywhere). Wondering if there are any people on the board that have left NYC only to crave returning or are happy with their choice? Any pros/cons input? Thank you.
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So you didn't miss it as much as you thought you would? OH has it's charm. I was born and raised there.Mian wrote:I lived in NYC for about five years in the 1980s, after graduating from university. I returned to Ohio (where I was born) mostly because I could enjoy a higher standard of living economically and frankly, tired of having to carry dry-cleaning up to my fourth-floor walk-up after a hard day's work.
I encouraged myself by saying that I would use the money I saved to visit NYC often and would stay in nice hotels and eat at the best restaurants when I visited...
That was over 25 years ago, and I've been in NYC approximately only three times since then.
If you move, prepare to close the door on that period of your life and don't look back.
Yes, I became very comfortable here. My wife's an architect and we were able to buy 10 acres of woods and build a house for what I'd probably pay for a two bedroom in the Upper West Side.
Still, I do miss some cultural aspects but the world seems a whole lot smaller these days with high speed internet and hundreds of cable channels.
I guess I don't miss the City that much these days and note that most of my friends moved out of the NYC area once they had kids or found summer shares or places to go to get away from the city with increasing regularity until the time came when I found I didn't have a lot of friends to visit any longer.
Still, I do miss some cultural aspects but the world seems a whole lot smaller these days with high speed internet and hundreds of cable channels.
I guess I don't miss the City that much these days and note that most of my friends moved out of the NYC area once they had kids or found summer shares or places to go to get away from the city with increasing regularity until the time came when I found I didn't have a lot of friends to visit any longer.
the world does seem to have gotten smaller (and bigger at same time) for your reasons listed. there was another post a while ago about a Boglehead wondering if it was just him/her or were other becoming more antisocial. Not wanting to be out and about....seems many were feeling that as well. People seem to be craving quietness which is far from what NYC provides.Mian wrote:Yes, I became very comfortable here. My wife's an architect and we were able to buy 10 acres of woods and build a house for what I'd probably pay for a two bedroom in the Upper West Side.
Still, I do miss some cultural aspects but the world seems a whole lot smaller these days with high speed internet and hundreds of cable channels.
I guess I don't miss the City that much these days and note that most of my friends moved out of the NYC area once they had kids or found summer shares or places to go to get away from the city with increasing regularity until the time came when I found I didn't have a lot of friends to visit any longer.
Thank you for your input.
I have lived in a fairly diverse set of cities - San Diego, Las Vegas, Boston, San Francisco, San Antonio, and yes, New York City. Each for at least two years.
I never understood the fascination with NYC. Sure, it's a vibrant place with lots to do and lots to see. It has many pros. But it also has many cons. Nowhere else in the US did I observe people quite as stressed out about money, and the quality of their lives... and I mean stressed out all the time, not just once in awhile. It's constantly on their minds - how can I afford this, or that, or whatever. From my perspective, New York epitomized the "rat race" type of life, where you always feel like you are one step behind but push forward out of some unknown, unquestioned intrinsic motivation to "make it" - whatever that means. The weather was so-so, too cold in the winter and too hot in the summer. And there wasn't much to do within 2 hours drive of the city.
Maybe this is a personality issue. Now I live on a few acres north of San Francisco and am happy as a clam. I fly to New York a couple times a year to visit. It's fun. But I am always happy to leave and return home to some peace and quiet. As far as quality of conversation, you can make friends anywhere you are. There are smart, funny, nice people pretty much everywhere in the US. I can drive 45 minutes south and take a class at Stanford and meet all the brainiacs I want. You just have to make an effort to find them.
I never understood the fascination with NYC. Sure, it's a vibrant place with lots to do and lots to see. It has many pros. But it also has many cons. Nowhere else in the US did I observe people quite as stressed out about money, and the quality of their lives... and I mean stressed out all the time, not just once in awhile. It's constantly on their minds - how can I afford this, or that, or whatever. From my perspective, New York epitomized the "rat race" type of life, where you always feel like you are one step behind but push forward out of some unknown, unquestioned intrinsic motivation to "make it" - whatever that means. The weather was so-so, too cold in the winter and too hot in the summer. And there wasn't much to do within 2 hours drive of the city.
Maybe this is a personality issue. Now I live on a few acres north of San Francisco and am happy as a clam. I fly to New York a couple times a year to visit. It's fun. But I am always happy to leave and return home to some peace and quiet. As far as quality of conversation, you can make friends anywhere you are. There are smart, funny, nice people pretty much everywhere in the US. I can drive 45 minutes south and take a class at Stanford and meet all the brainiacs I want. You just have to make an effort to find them.
I tend to agree with much of what you've written about. It's can be avery stressful place to be. I've often heard people talk about their time in NYC in terms of how many years they lasted. Sounds like a stint in prison. "I did 18 years,7 years,etc..." It's a great place to be doing well in (financially spekaing) a horror show if you're not.mac808 wrote:I have lived in a fairly diverse set of cities - San Diego, Las Vegas, Boston, San Francisco, San Antonio, and yes, New York City. Each for at least two years.
I never understood the fascination with NYC. Sure, it's a vibrant place with lots to do and lots to see. It has many pros. But it also has many cons. Nowhere else in the US did I observe people quite as stressed out about money, and the quality of their lives... and I mean stressed out all the time, not just once in awhile. It's constantly on their minds - how can I afford this, or that, or whatever. From my perspective, New York epitomized the "rat race" type of life, where you always feel like you are one step behind but push forward out of some unknown, unquestioned intrinsic motivation to "make it" - whatever that means. The weather was so-so, too cold in the winter and too hot in the summer. And there wasn't much to do within 2 hours drive of the city.
Maybe this is a personality issue. Now I live on a few acres north of San Francisco and am happy as a clam. I fly to New York a couple times a year to visit. It's fun. But I am always happy to leave and return home to some peace and quiet. As far as quality of conversation, you can make friends anywhere you are. There are smart, funny, nice people pretty much everywhere in the US. I can drive 45 minutes south and take a class at Stanford and meet all the brainiacs I want. You just have to make an effort to find them.
Alex Frakt wrote:True, but again it's about the balance the OP is seeking. He or she specifically mentioned "Arts, Culture, Diversity, Energy", nothing in there about outdoor recreation. It's also been my experience that the number one thing ex-New Yorkers miss is the lack of walkability in most US cities. This all tends to point to SF itself. Maybe close to the Ferry Terminal in Sausalito would work (it would for me ).yobria wrote:Keep in mind San Francisco is only a small part of the Bay Area, both population and geography-wise.Alex Frakt wrote:I was thinking San Francisco as well. It seems to be the easiest US city for dyed-in-the-wool New Yorkers to adapt to. I think it's the density and high energy... The drawbacks are that housing is still expensive and cramped in the places you want to be - not to NYC levels, but closer than anywhere else in the US - and the weather is flat-out weird. It doesn't go below freezing, but it's hardly ever really warm if that's what the OP is looking for.
While SF may have gloomy summers in some parts (not others, eg the Mission), the BA has plenty of sunnier areas, eg the East Bay.
For me, the BA provides an ideal combination of high incomes, perfect weather, and a wealth of both urban/culture and outdoor activities.
Downtown Portland Oregon is also very walkable so if that is important than it would be work looking at too since it is an order of magnatude more affordable. Check out the prices on realtor.com for the trendy area northwest Portland in zip code 97209, or a few miles out the prices would be even more affordable
Move to Los Angeles. In two hours you're in Palm Springs, Santa Barbara, or San Diego. In one hour you're at the beach or in the local mountains. In three hours you're in the Sierra Nevada mountains or Mojave Desert. In two hours you're in Joshua Tree National Park. In four hours you're in Yosemite National Park.
In two hours from NYC you're in what, New Jersey . . .
In two hours from NYC you're in what, New Jersey . . .
Last edited by etm on Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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good point. since i don't have kids i have never really considered the real cost of kids and what we're saving financially by not having them. (space, school, food/clothing) Time to run some numbers apparently so I can justify the high taxes we pay. 45% or so (fed/state/city)thebogledude wrote:IMO, if I don't have kids and could be anywhere then I would choose NYC. People who don't live in NYC usually have kids and can't live anywhere or one or the other.
This is exactly my thought as I was reading the responses. Truth is you can live anywhere. Key is how you make the effort to surround the people that enthuses you. With sites like Meetup and many non profit orgs around, you can find people with same hobby, interest, politics, religion, ethnic, you name it.mac808 wrote:You just have to make an effort to find them.
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.
It's also a fantastic biking city. Portland is just wonderful.Watty wrote:Downtown Portland Oregon is also very walkable so if that is important than it would be work looking at too since it is an order of magnatude more affordable.
I like Nor Cal b/c it's a bit cooler for outdoor activities, and the air's better. But LA has so much to offer (art, food, culture, etc), I could happily move there.etm wrote:Move to Los Angeles. In two hours you're in Palm Springs, Santa Barbara, or San Diego. In one hour you're at the beach or in the local mountains. In three hours you're in the Sierra Nevada mountains or Mojave Desert. In two hours you're in Joshua Tree National Park. In four hours you're in Yosemite National Park.
The Western US really is the promised land. The only place that may have us beat, IMHO, is Spain, and incomes are much lower there. And of course NYC for certain things, but the weather and lack of outdoor space are drawbacks.
Nick
I agree more with Victoria. New York is probably the only place in America big and compact enough to support social events with people who have very specific interests. Firstly the arts and culture represent a major industry in New York. Secondly you just have many more people living within an appropriate travel time from your location. This is the advantage of high rises. In LA, Chicago, and other major cities that are car-focused you can't bring people together in this way.Claude wrote:Victoria, With all due respect, I believe it is possible to find people with whom to "have a meaningful conversation about [these] books and films" even in the wilds of Oregon. Or near Hanover, NH. In a pinch, even in suburban NJ where I liveVictoriaF wrote:I think New York is not just books, or "culture," or food. New York is ambiance. You can find good food in many places, but New York is the company you have at your table, and conversations you overhear from other tables, and people you see through the restaurant window.Claude wrote:My sister lived in NYC her entire post-college life, until she decided to move near Portland, Oregon. I thought she would go crazy without the city, but she has loved the change for quite a few years.
In large part, the Internet cushions the "culture" change. Amazon can get you most any book you want, overnight. Ditto Netflix for films. Good food can be had in small towns, although I don't imagine you can get a great bagel or slice of pizza in Oregon. She feels the trade-offs were mostly in her favor.
My other sister still lives in NYC because her job is there, but any day now ...
You can buy books on Amazon.com and watch films on Netflix, but in New York you have people with whom you can have a meaningful conversation about these books and films. Face-to-face conversation that is.
Victoria
The ambiance might be different, but an ambiance exists in those places also, and some people might even prefer it there -- my sister, for example. She was immersed in NYC culture and ambiance for 30 years. I worked in NYC for 20 years. My wife lived there for 20 years. It is a wonderful city. It is NOT the only place with beneficial ambiance.
Let's say that you love the work of a particular director, the most likely place to host a retrospective of their work and discussion about it would be New York. This wouldn't get off the ground even in a decent place like Portland. If it did it would have less attendees and maybe those who went would be people who just liked films and had no other outlets, rather than liking that director specifically.
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I find people who aren't born to NYC brave who come here and expect to make something out of nothing. I can't imagine the stress of not having firm roots here, my life and family are here and had my footing to start my career without worrying about roommates and all that nonsense. Everything is expensive in NYC and it's not the place to be for those who aren't prepared to work hard, or have some lineage towards high paying jobs. The union gigs pay really well and make NYC a great place to live, for everyone else, it's a rat race of trying to stay afloat. I fantasize about leaving all the time, but the people and some places keep me here. If you don't have family here - I can't imagine you would want to stay unless you are financially sound.Saggy wrote:I tend to agree with much of what you've written about. It's can be avery stressful place to be. I've often heard people talk about their time in NYC in terms of how many years they lasted. Sounds like a stint in prison. "I did 18 years,7 years,etc..." It's a great place to be doing well in (financially spekaing) a horror show if you're not.mac808 wrote:I have lived in a fairly diverse set of cities - San Diego, Las Vegas, Boston, San Francisco, San Antonio, and yes, New York City. Each for at least two years.
I never understood the fascination with NYC. Sure, it's a vibrant place with lots to do and lots to see. It has many pros. But it also has many cons. Nowhere else in the US did I observe people quite as stressed out about money, and the quality of their lives... and I mean stressed out all the time, not just once in awhile. It's constantly on their minds - how can I afford this, or that, or whatever. From my perspective, New York epitomized the "rat race" type of life, where you always feel like you are one step behind but push forward out of some unknown, unquestioned intrinsic motivation to "make it" - whatever that means. The weather was so-so, too cold in the winter and too hot in the summer. And there wasn't much to do within 2 hours drive of the city.
Maybe this is a personality issue. Now I live on a few acres north of San Francisco and am happy as a clam. I fly to New York a couple times a year to visit. It's fun. But I am always happy to leave and return home to some peace and quiet. As far as quality of conversation, you can make friends anywhere you are. There are smart, funny, nice people pretty much everywhere in the US. I can drive 45 minutes south and take a class at Stanford and meet all the brainiacs I want. You just have to make an effort to find them.
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Some of us don't have firm roots anywhere.jridger2011 wrote:I find people who aren't born to NYC brave who come here and expect to make something out of nothing. I can't imagine the stress of not having firm roots here, my life and family are here and had my footing to start my career without worrying about roommates and all that nonsense. Everything is expensive in NYC and it's not the place to be for those who aren't prepared to work hard, or have some lineage towards high paying jobs. The union gigs pay really well and make NYC a great place to live, for everyone else, it's a rat race of trying to stay afloat. I fantasize about leaving all the time, but the people and some places keep me here. If you don't have family here - I can't imagine you would want to stay unless you are financially sound.
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New York City
I grew up in NYC, but have also lived in Phoenix, Denver, Boston, and San Francisco.
I recently left NYC when I retired to Palm Springs.
I am not a NYC fan: Incredible pollution (one day after a thorough cleaning, everything in your apartment is again caked with grime), crowds everywhere, horrible weather most of the time, and very high taxes. Yes, great transportation system and lots of things to do. I just think the quality of life is low, unless you are quite wealthy and can insulate yourself from the downsides.
Boston is much nicer: smaller, more manageable, cheaper, but colder, too.
San Francisco is unique. Beautiful place. Never gets that warm, but also never gets very cold, either. But it too is expensive -- 10% California income tax at the top bracket, which kicks in at just over $46K! If you own a home, be prepared to pay through the nose for earthquake insurance as well.
Denver is beautiful and livable, and is not that cold most of the time. Yes, it snows, but the snow does not last very long in most cases: The sun comes out the next day and melts everything away. Low income tax.
Phoenix was nice in the '60's when I lived there. And now you can buy a house there for a song. But it is polluted and hot, hot, hot in the summers. It's a mini Los Angeles these days.
All that said, if you really like NYC, stay there! No place is perfect, and people who leave "home" do get homesick.
I recently left NYC when I retired to Palm Springs.
I am not a NYC fan: Incredible pollution (one day after a thorough cleaning, everything in your apartment is again caked with grime), crowds everywhere, horrible weather most of the time, and very high taxes. Yes, great transportation system and lots of things to do. I just think the quality of life is low, unless you are quite wealthy and can insulate yourself from the downsides.
Boston is much nicer: smaller, more manageable, cheaper, but colder, too.
San Francisco is unique. Beautiful place. Never gets that warm, but also never gets very cold, either. But it too is expensive -- 10% California income tax at the top bracket, which kicks in at just over $46K! If you own a home, be prepared to pay through the nose for earthquake insurance as well.
Denver is beautiful and livable, and is not that cold most of the time. Yes, it snows, but the snow does not last very long in most cases: The sun comes out the next day and melts everything away. Low income tax.
Phoenix was nice in the '60's when I lived there. And now you can buy a house there for a song. But it is polluted and hot, hot, hot in the summers. It's a mini Los Angeles these days.
All that said, if you really like NYC, stay there! No place is perfect, and people who leave "home" do get homesick.