Physician thinking of an MBA: HELP!

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Post Reply
Topic Author
femtoace
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:55 am

Physician thinking of an MBA: HELP!

Post by femtoace »

I am 31 yrs old and am currently a practicing physician thinking of doing an MBA. Just took my GMAT hoping to join the university I work for (at a subsidised price) and ended up scoring well (710; 6/6). Now, I can't figure out if I should try to get into a top notch B school or join my current university.

Long term Goals: Health care management, initiate a start up (would love to do this) and make $$$!

Current options:
Join a part time MBA at my currrent university (the evening program is ranked between 20-30) (Cost = $12k or so)
Save up enough and quit my job to do a full time MBA from a top 10 B school. (Cost= 150k+ opportunity cost)
Try and get into an executive MBA at a top B school and travel twice a month. (Cost= 175k+ opportunity cost)

Was talking to a few friends and kept getting mixed opinions and am not sure what to do.

Also, do people making a good salaray to begin with make more after completing an MBA?(I don't think it would help me practice medicine but I could advance better on the management side of hospitals)

If anyone could provide me with some insight, I'd be really thankful.
Last edited by femtoace on Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
dhodson
Posts: 4117
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 3:03 pm

Post by dhodson »

At 31, you haven't practiced medicine very long. I personally typically have a low opinion of other docs who don't have much real doc experiences. I say this bc I doubt I'm alone in this feeling and thus I'd recommend solutions where you still practice medicine for a few years while you get this degree and pursue your eventual goals in management.
Topic Author
femtoace
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:55 am

Post by femtoace »

Never said I didnt like practicing as a doctor! Love practicing medicine and teaching and thats why am at a university. I work as a hospitalist and need to work abt 170 days a year: I want to do something useful in my remaining time. Love medicine for what it is and don't want to pursue a fellowship and I dont like research... So thinking of taking up management.....
MrMiyagi
Posts: 363
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:28 pm

Post by MrMiyagi »

If you're successful, please do chime in. There are some of us who are physicians and interested in healthcare management since non-MDs seem to be calling the shots now... :(
Bruin
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:43 pm

Post by Bruin »

Do you want to be a physician first with management as a specialty? Then focus in on growing your physician skillset - keep practicing, do part-time/executive MBA.

Do you want to primarily be management, that has physician expertise? Then do the full time MBA.

I did a part time MBA at a well respected school, top 15-25. I did not know 1 physician in the entire program. And honestly, while there is no doubt the program could help someone wanting to be in mgmt, I really think that a school that specializes in healthcare MBAs would be of much more value.

I know UC Irvine has a Healthcare MBA program - one that I did consider as well (I am in healthcare as well, but not physician based).

I would honestly talk to the schools of your choice and find out what they offer to someone wanting to leverage their MD to get into healthcare management. Ideally see if you can talk to some current students who are MDs or those who have recently graduated.

More specifically, if you know exactly it is where you want to end up on your career path, CEO of a hospital chain, Hospital administration, whatever, read the job postings for these positions. See what they require. Check out the resumes/cvs of those that are in these positions and see what experience they have. If every single one of them has an MBA from a top 10 school, then you know what you have to do if that's where you want to get to.
User avatar
zzcooper123
Posts: 539
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:55 pm

Post by zzcooper123 »

There are executive MBA programs for physicians.
User avatar
fandango
Posts: 518
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:44 pm
Location: Greater Atlanta area

Post by fandango »

A friend's daughter completed medical school and residency and then decided that she wanted to work in the investment world. Go figure!

She currently has a research role for a mid-size investement company.
Her value is that her medical background helps the firm understand new developments in the healthcare/pharmaceutical field. No MBA was required. Pay is roughly comparable to a physician in practice.

Your value to any company would probably be your medical knowledge and experience. MBA's are a dime a dozen, and a lot are unemployed.
Not sure that one more degree would add value to your resume.

Another observation. It is not unusual for new physicians to feel a little "antsy" after completing medical school, residency, and fellowships.
It's hard to "come down" after working and studying 24X7. There really is an adjustment period.

If you still want to pursue an MBA, go the Executive MBA route. Same degree, tailored to working people, and allows you to network. Academics do not really know the business world. Otherwise they would all be rich. Usually a big name MBA program will offer one in your area. Might have to drive some distance to find one.
Valuethinker
Posts: 48944
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: Physician thinking of an MBA: HELP!

Post by Valuethinker »

femtoace wrote:I am 31 yrs old and am currently a practicing physician thinking of doing an MBA. Just took my GMAT hoping to join the university I work for (at a subsidised price) and ended up scoring well (710; 6/6). Now, I can't figure out if I should try to get into a top notch B school or join my current university.

Long term Goals: Health care management, initiate a start up (would love to do this) and make $$$!

Current options:
Join a part time MBA at my currrent university (the evening program is ranked between 20-30) (Cost = $12k or so)
Save up enough and quit my job to do a full time MBA from a top 10 B school. (Cost= 150k+ opportunity cost)
Try and get into an executive MBA at a top B school and travel twice a month. (Cost= 175k+ opportunity cost)

Was talking to a few friends and kept getting mixed opinions and am not sure what to do.

Also, do people making a good salaray to begin with make more after completing an MBA?(I don't think it would help me practice medicine but I could advance better on the management side of hospitals)

If anyone could provide me with some insight, I'd be really thankful.
OK

- exec programmes at prestigious B Schools are downrated by recruiters against the FT programmes (they are easier to get into). Be wary of that. Will you get the same access to recruiters (ask!)?

- prestigious B Schools work if:
- you want to work for big name consultancies/ I Banks post MBA. They recruit pretty much exclusively from top 10 or top 20 schools. Even if you go to Harvard, it's not that easy to get a job at McKinsey/Bain etc. -- competition is fierce. Some schools (Chicago) are actually full of people who go to more esoteric places like hedge funds (I would imagine something similar in Columbia).

The big B Schools are essentially puppy mills of 26 year old cannon fodder for the big banks and consultancies. Upon entry (or return) most will spend at most 3-4 years in those roles, and then exit either to industry or other directions (one guy I know went to medical school ;-)). For this reason, the shift in MBA entry and recruitment seems to have become younger and younger: Stanford and Harvard even now take a (very few) top undergrad stars without business experience, because the recruiters like them.

Remember the goal of all finance bound MBA students is to get out of/ avoid investment banking and get into Private Equity./ LBO. Or to start an internet business.

Blue chip corporates don't place the same value on top MBAs (because they have a habit of leaving after 2 years) *but* you find clusters of MBAs eg at, say, Pfizer's M&A Unit (they'll all be ex Wall Street though) and they will look favourably at your CV. Also a lot of CEO level people are MBA snobs-- particularly about Harvard (often they did an Advanced Management Programme non degree there). there are plenty of CxOs who will hire you just because you went to HBS.

- you might use such a degree to springboard into entrepreneurship. Meet like minded souls there, and hopefully meet business angels through the school network. Stanford does a lot of that in tech. In healthcare, I do know know. MIT Sloan? But if you are a Stanford MBA student then you can spend 2 years going to industry conferences and talking to *everyone* -- it's a very nice door opener.

- otherwise MBAs are just MBAs. Local to your location there will a a good business school that many businesspeople in your city attended. I know for example in LA USC has enormous pull (generally through other professional schools or undergrads perhaps).

My conclusion:

- a top MBA, full time. If you get into Harvard or Stanford, you probably should destroy your personal balance sheet and go-- but you are old from the point of view of recruiters of full time MBAs (read Philip Delves-Broughton about Harvard for the challenges that will bring; also there was that Reagan speechwriter who went to Stanford? Ah yes 'Postcards from Hell'). I am not sure if Northwestern/ Wharton/ Chicago/ Columbia et. al would justify that expenditure *unless* you are targetting blue chip consultancies or banks post MBA. They would be great experiences, but expensive great experiences-- and you would be too old for many recruiters (McKinsey seems to be something of an exception).

the age issue and its effect on your recruitability post could be the real show stopper.

An alternative would be the Sloan Fellowships at Stanford LBS or MIT. My order of preference would be in that specific order of B School.

- exec MBAs. It has prestige, but perhaps more valuable in blue chip corporate terms than in entrepreneurial ones. That said, I had friends who did the London Business School exec MBA and leveraged it in some quite interesting directions (LBS has a very good entrepreneurship programme)

- local MBA. May well be your best bet if you plan to stay in the same geography. Avoid the crushing debt burden and have more money available to fund your startup. Network heavily with local business angels and talk to as many entrepreneurs if you can. Consider doing an internship with a local healthcare entrepreneur

(if you are in Boston area, consider Babson as well. I don't know much about it, but I do know the whole school focuses on entrepreneurship).

In entrepreneurship, experience beats book learning 2:1. To be a successful entrepreneur you are likely to have more than 1 go at it.

BusinessWeek has (or had) a very good MBA Forum and you should definitely spend some time there, reading back through threads.
Valuethinker
Posts: 48944
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Post by Valuethinker »

fandango wrote:A friend's daughter completed medical school and residency and then decided that she wanted to work in the investment world. Go figure!

She currently has a research role for a mid-size investement company.
Her value is that her medical background helps the firm understand new developments in the healthcare/pharmaceutical field. No MBA was required. Pay is roughly comparable to a physician in practice..
The trick there is to get the CFA. That nicely links competitive advantage (knowledge of medical science and research) with common language and skills (financial statement analysis, finance theory). And it's viewed in many circles as at least as good as an MBA (because the pass rate is low).
AZK
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:49 am

Post by AZK »

Hey there.

I'm in a similiar situation. I'm a 2nd year resident right now and not really interested in fellowship or the academic route. Obviously have an interest in business/finance so naturally was thinking the same thing...go get an MBA after residency.

A couple of thoughts, from various people I've talked to.

1) Several physicians have told me, you don't need an mba, your MD alone is enough to do consulting if you want, or if you want to manage finances/be the business guy of your group it should be easy since most physicians have no interest

2) A MD who is now pursuing an MBA par-time, director of his dept. told me that I need a specific goal in mind when pursuing an MBA, while the lessons are invaluable, I shouldn't just go just to go. This made some sense to me, and the thought of working for 3-5 years in the system to get a good idea of what I want to do sounds reasonable.

3) A younger MD/MBA told me my MBA depended on what I wanted to do with it. He laid out a couple options:

a) You want to be an entrepeneur and launch a healthcare oriented business/start up -> you need to go to a full time top 10 MBA program, more for the contacts you make to help you reach your dream than the actual course content.
b) you want to manage your dept. finances/maybe do some consulting on the side. You can go to a part-time/executive/fellowship in administration route. Here your contacts matter less, it's more just the knowledge the MBA gives you. But he also mentioned, you don't need an MBA to balance a spread sheet. If you want to be director of your dept. it helps. If you want to be CEO of the hospital it's essential.

So at this point, I'm leaning towards either an administrative type fellowship after residency that will pay me while allowing me to earn my mba. The dual benefit being 1) I get my MBA, 2) I get my foot in early in the administrative world by networking through a fellowship.

Alternatively, if that doesn't work out, I'll likely work in the community for a few years and either do part-time or weekend MBA.

I question the opportunity cost/value of the executive weekend MBA type programs (i.e. duke). The tuition is outrageous.
Buysider
Posts: 764
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 9:36 pm

Post by Buysider »

1) Several physicians have told me, you don't need an mba, your MD alone is enough to do consulting if you want, or if you want to manage finances/be the business guy of your group it should be easy since most physicians have no interest
That is true - which is why a lot of phsycian practices are starting to hire MBAs to handle that.
2) A MD who is now pursuing an MBA par-time, director of his dept. told me that I need a specific goal in mind when pursuing an MBA, while the lessons are invaluable, I shouldn't just go just to go. This made some sense to me, and the thought of working for 3-5 years in the system to get a good idea of what I want to do sounds reasonable.
ABSOLUTELY. If you post some more on your goals I could give you some thoughts, but b-school is not a great place to "find yourself" except for a few (folks coming out of the military).

Wharton and Chicago have two very specific healthcare MBA programs. I know a number of folks who did the program at both - half were doctors who wanted to get out of practicing, the other half were business folks who wanted to get into either health care management or a related sub-section. Those programs are great if you know what you want to get career-wise out of the MBA.
I question the opportunity cost/value of the executive weekend MBA type programs (i.e. duke). The tuition is outrageous.
Everyone I know who did exec MBAs wasn't paying with their own money - they were sponsored by their employers...
surveyor
Posts: 334
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:05 am

Post by surveyor »

At one point, my wife (pharmd in a director role) was looking at the University of Florida's Masters in Health Administration. It can be completed remotely part-time. Just something to consider if you aren't looking at top-tier programs and are more specifically interested in healthcare admin.
Post Reply