Fence Laws & Dogs
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Fence Laws & Dogs
this is one instance i found google virtually useless.
we have 2 dogs and our neighbor has 3. they like to fight along the fence, and my neighbor claims she has damage on her side of the fence. she is a lawyer and likes to through the attorney card around in an attempt to intimidate. there is no damage on our side. they also are able to stick their snouts under parts and they nip at each other. the fence is hers. i have taken pictures of our side that show no damage, and she is aware. i saw this as a potential issue when we moved in and requested she allow us to build another fence and share her posts. she declined at that time as well as now.
she wants us to call her 30 minutes before we let our dogs out so she can bring hers in. i told her that was not only a major inconvenience, but i am not going to ask permission to use my yard when and how i see fit.
if the damage is only on her side and not on ours, can she hold us liable since it is her fence?
are we best off putting a fence next to hers? but then when her dogs continue to batter her fence, i'm sure she'll find a way to make this my problem.
thanks in advance.
we have 2 dogs and our neighbor has 3. they like to fight along the fence, and my neighbor claims she has damage on her side of the fence. she is a lawyer and likes to through the attorney card around in an attempt to intimidate. there is no damage on our side. they also are able to stick their snouts under parts and they nip at each other. the fence is hers. i have taken pictures of our side that show no damage, and she is aware. i saw this as a potential issue when we moved in and requested she allow us to build another fence and share her posts. she declined at that time as well as now.
she wants us to call her 30 minutes before we let our dogs out so she can bring hers in. i told her that was not only a major inconvenience, but i am not going to ask permission to use my yard when and how i see fit.
if the damage is only on her side and not on ours, can she hold us liable since it is her fence?
are we best off putting a fence next to hers? but then when her dogs continue to batter her fence, i'm sure she'll find a way to make this my problem.
thanks in advance.
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Re: Fence Laws & Dogs
If the damage is on here side IMO it would be hard for her to make a case it's your ( dogs ) fault, but then I'm not an lawyer. If your really concerned about it, then build a simple wire fence or some such, to keep your dogs off her fence. Of course, you could just back down and let her know when your dogs are coming out. Good luck.etherscreen78 wrote:this is one instance i found google virtually useless.
we have 2 dogs and our neighbor has 3. they like to fight along the fence, and my neighbor claims she has damage on her side of the fence. she is a lawyer and likes to through the attorney card around in an attempt to intimidate. there is no damage on our side. they also are able to stick their snouts under parts and they nip at each other. the fence is hers. i have taken pictures of our side that show no damage, and she is aware. i saw this as a potential issue when we moved in and requested she allow us to build another fence and share her posts. she declined at that time as well as now.
she wants us to call her 30 minutes before we let our dogs out so she can bring hers in. i told her that was not only a major inconvenience, but i am not going to ask permission to use my yard when and how i see fit.
if the damage is only on her side and not on ours, can she hold us liable since it is her fence?
are we best off putting a fence next to hers? but then when her dogs continue to batter her fence, i'm sure she'll find a way to make this my problem.
thanks in advance.
A few thoughts pop in my head:
1) Sounds like she's mad b/c her dogs react to your dogs and HER dogs damage the fence.
2) I'm not a homeowner, but I wouldn't do much....the less is more approach seems appropriate in this case.
3) I believe in a well trained dog...but dogs will be dogs sometimes.
4) Any chance you could plant a hedge or something on your side of the fence?
1) Sounds like she's mad b/c her dogs react to your dogs and HER dogs damage the fence.
2) I'm not a homeowner, but I wouldn't do much....the less is more approach seems appropriate in this case.
3) I believe in a well trained dog...but dogs will be dogs sometimes.
4) Any chance you could plant a hedge or something on your side of the fence?
Have her send a letter to you where she puts all that in writing.
Then have your lawyer send her a letter like the response here:
http://www.clevescene.com/64-and-counti ... s-to-a-fan
That said, I'm surprised your dog is not "socialized" to ignore the dogs on the other side of the fence. My experience is that dogs can be easily trained to let the other dogs bark, snarl, chew the fence, whatever, while they themselves ignore them.
Then have your lawyer send her a letter like the response here:
http://www.clevescene.com/64-and-counti ... s-to-a-fan
That said, I'm surprised your dog is not "socialized" to ignore the dogs on the other side of the fence. My experience is that dogs can be easily trained to let the other dogs bark, snarl, chew the fence, whatever, while they themselves ignore them.
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ha! both my german shepherds used to play very well with others. we used to take them to the dog park daily until one day the male went after another dog. they've been dog aggressive ever since. it sounds ludicrous - i know, but we've tried to rehabilitate to no avail. they're both 10 now, so only a few more years to deal with that issue.livesoft wrote:Have her send a letter to you where she puts all that in writing.
Then have your lawyer send her a letter like the response here:
http://www.clevescene.com/64-and-counti ... s-to-a-fan
That said, I'm surprised your dog is not "socialized" to ignore the dogs on the other side of the fence. My experience is that dogs can be easily trained to let the other dogs bark, snarl, chew the fence, whatever, while they themselves ignore them.
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Re: Fence Laws & Dogs
Sounds like your neighbor is an unpleasant idiot. Been there...etherscreen78 wrote:this is one instance i found google virtually useless.
we have 2 dogs and our neighbor has 3. they like to fight along the fence, and my neighbor claims she has damage on her side of the fence. she is a lawyer and likes to through the attorney card around in an attempt to intimidate. there is no damage on our side. they also are able to stick their snouts under parts and they nip at each other. the fence is hers. i have taken pictures of our side that show no damage, and she is aware. i saw this as a potential issue when we moved in and requested she allow us to build another fence and share her posts. she declined at that time as well as now.
she wants us to call her 30 minutes before we let our dogs out so she can bring hers in. i told her that was not only a major inconvenience, but i am not going to ask permission to use my yard when and how i see fit.
if the damage is only on her side and not on ours, can she hold us liable since it is her fence?
are we best off putting a fence next to hers? but then when her dogs continue to batter her fence, i'm sure she'll find a way to make this my problem.
thanks in advance.
Still, if I were her I wouldn't let you build a fence attached to my fence either. That would just spell trouble whenever anything goes wrong with the fence and it needs to get repaired.
My advice- build your own fence.
Note- probably worth getting a surveyor to come out and check the property line. Any chance her fence is actually on your property? (it happens). Make sure your fence is a good 6-12 inches on your side of the property line.
cheers,
RIP Mr. Bogle.
I suspect liability can fall out different ways from state to state and jury to jury. You might need one of those "free consultations" we hear about sometimes to see what your best course of action is. It seems unlikely that you would lose such a lawsuit, but it sure would be a pain in the rear and probably cost you money.
It appears your neighbor may have a problem. Fair or not, the solution will probably fall to you. I agree with others - build your own fence, make sure it is a few inches inside your property line. If the problem continues as it is the dogs will dig closer to each other. You may eventually get billed for a vet visit (dogs coming in contact under the fence or even if her dogs get a scratch on the face from their own fence).
Whenever possible, have a neighbor as a witness when you need to have conversations with this person. If you do end up in court, you'll need some corroboration that she is unreasonable. Good luck. This can't be a happy situation.
It appears your neighbor may have a problem. Fair or not, the solution will probably fall to you. I agree with others - build your own fence, make sure it is a few inches inside your property line. If the problem continues as it is the dogs will dig closer to each other. You may eventually get billed for a vet visit (dogs coming in contact under the fence or even if her dogs get a scratch on the face from their own fence).
Whenever possible, have a neighbor as a witness when you need to have conversations with this person. If you do end up in court, you'll need some corroboration that she is unreasonable. Good luck. This can't be a happy situation.
Link to Asking Portfolio Questions
Check your local laws & ordinances for any guidance. They may be available online.
In my area, the fence owner is responsible for making sure any dogs inside the fence can't poke an angry snout through the gaps to snap at passersby. Animal Control will come out and tell people they have to build a higher interior fence, or maybe put up chicken wire, to achieve this separation. But I'm in a city where the issue is people & dogs walking by on the sidewalk.
In your case, with next-door neighbors who both let their dogs out into the yard, I'd second the suggestion to build your own fence. At this point the dogs are learning & reinforcing aggressive behavior every time they go outside looking to rumble with the dogs next door. That's not good for anyone.
In my area, the fence owner is responsible for making sure any dogs inside the fence can't poke an angry snout through the gaps to snap at passersby. Animal Control will come out and tell people they have to build a higher interior fence, or maybe put up chicken wire, to achieve this separation. But I'm in a city where the issue is people & dogs walking by on the sidewalk.
In your case, with next-door neighbors who both let their dogs out into the yard, I'd second the suggestion to build your own fence. At this point the dogs are learning & reinforcing aggressive behavior every time they go outside looking to rumble with the dogs next door. That's not good for anyone.
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livesoft wrote:Have her send a letter to you where she puts all that in writing.
These two. Get her to put her complaint in writing and then take that and pictures of your side of the fence and go to a local attorney for a consultation. It'll probably cost you a $100, but then you will know if she has a legal leg to stand on (which I doubt). With any luck you'll be able to work it out based on what you find out and whatever you are willing to do to keep the peace. But if she's in the wrong and won't let it drop, then I would tell her that you will be reporting the entire thing to whichever agency handles attorney complaints in your state. Also take notes during the consult and immediately after any substantive discussions or confrontations you have on this (or any other) topic with the lawyer, including the date and time you had them.retiredjg wrote:I suspect liability can fall out different ways from state to state and jury to jury. You might need one of those "free consultations" we hear about sometimes to see what your best course of action is. It seems unlikely that you would lose such a lawsuit, but it sure would be a pain in the rear and probably cost you money.
You might also make sure you know exactly where the property line is. Some build fences slightly on their property, in which case your dogs are on her property if they are up at the fence. Perhaps a 4' wire garden fence on your side giving a 1-2' DMZ would be useful, particularly if it goes legal. It'll probably cost less than an hour of lawyer time.
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It sounds like you have a "crazy neighbor" problem, not a dog problem.
I don't think you can go about solving this problem like you would if your neighbor were a rational person with a questionable claim about your dogs. If you go to the trouble and expense of putting up your own fence, electric or otherwise, then she'll direct her demands and threats at something else you're (supposedly) doing or not doing.
Your neighbor is displaying attention-seeking behavior. My advice is to pay as little attention as possible to her. Ignore her, ignore her demands, respond to her with as little speech and as little emotion as possible. End conversations with a neutral statement and walk away.
I admit this is risky advice, given that she's an attorney (is she really, or does she just say so?). She is going to continue to hold the implied threat of a lawsuit over your head until you call her bluff.
But if she does file suit, it's likely that your homeowner's insurance liability policy will cover the issue. In fact, you may want to consider a preemptive call to your insurance company or agent to warn them of your crazy neighbor problem. They may have advice about how to document the issue and when to call the police (if she escalates the attention-seeking behavior).
Your best outcome is that she gets so angry at you that she refuses to speak to you and settles for holding a grudge and bad-mouthing you to whichever neighbors will speak to her.
I don't think you can go about solving this problem like you would if your neighbor were a rational person with a questionable claim about your dogs. If you go to the trouble and expense of putting up your own fence, electric or otherwise, then she'll direct her demands and threats at something else you're (supposedly) doing or not doing.
Your neighbor is displaying attention-seeking behavior. My advice is to pay as little attention as possible to her. Ignore her, ignore her demands, respond to her with as little speech and as little emotion as possible. End conversations with a neutral statement and walk away.
I admit this is risky advice, given that she's an attorney (is she really, or does she just say so?). She is going to continue to hold the implied threat of a lawsuit over your head until you call her bluff.
But if she does file suit, it's likely that your homeowner's insurance liability policy will cover the issue. In fact, you may want to consider a preemptive call to your insurance company or agent to warn them of your crazy neighbor problem. They may have advice about how to document the issue and when to call the police (if she escalates the attention-seeking behavior).
Your best outcome is that she gets so angry at you that she refuses to speak to you and settles for holding a grudge and bad-mouthing you to whichever neighbors will speak to her.
You've gotten good advice, but when it comes to neighbors, I always want the most unambiguous and the least contentious, and most overt, least easily misunderstood or characterized activities.
Look, fact one seems to be that she's a miserable prick, and fact two is that you will never change her. Fact three seems to be that she considers you a nice target for her ire.
You do not want neighbor problems, EVER. Life is too short, people are too vindictive, and the chances of it all irritating you while falling within their scheme/lifestyle/mania is too high.
so defuse, defuse, defuse:
1. No more dialog on the fence. Period.
2. Quietly build your own, to code, with a proper survey, within your own property line. I myself have a brand new $4,000 fence for not much more than a little bungalow, that faces a perfectly good and perfectly new fence only 12" away. But I did not have to ask, or deal with issues, and I did not 'intrude' on their life in any conceivable way. Robert Frost may not have meant it to be an unquestioned absolute, but he was on the money with: "Good fences make good neighbors." And to answer his semi-rhetorical question, you KNOW what you are 'walling in' (your own control over your life and property) and what you are 'walling out' (nutty meddlesome contentious, potentially litigious and apparently loathsome people!)
3. Send an absolutely neutral (I know it's hard - so have someone neutral review and edit it!) letter, explaining that she has mentioned seeing some damage on her side of the fence, that you see none on yours, and that if she is really under the belief that somehow your dogs caused it, that with proper proof of that claim, of course you area good neighbor, and will gladly pay full cost of any restitution, without fail. And you need to mean this. It sounds like there is no possible way, but who knows? Paying a landscaper to throw some fill and or sod, and or to get a fence guy to bend and stake something is downright CHEAP compared to everliving peace of mind that not only did you do more than the right thing, that you have now inoculated yourself from possible future trouble or liability. Daytime TV is full of court shows, ten hours a day on four channels with NOTHING but people screwing with each other when they know better, but were given a little perceived opening, or felt slighted. Defuse, play nice, close the books, and seal off the chances/opportunities for further interaction. Don't be rude, just make yourself, your dogs, and your property unavailable and out of view of her restlessly searching need to get involved in conflict.
So my point is to be like Ghandi -- committed to peace, but resolute in your intention -- in this case, to remove and then seal yourself away from her negative impact on your life.
Look, fact one seems to be that she's a miserable prick, and fact two is that you will never change her. Fact three seems to be that she considers you a nice target for her ire.
You do not want neighbor problems, EVER. Life is too short, people are too vindictive, and the chances of it all irritating you while falling within their scheme/lifestyle/mania is too high.
so defuse, defuse, defuse:
1. No more dialog on the fence. Period.
2. Quietly build your own, to code, with a proper survey, within your own property line. I myself have a brand new $4,000 fence for not much more than a little bungalow, that faces a perfectly good and perfectly new fence only 12" away. But I did not have to ask, or deal with issues, and I did not 'intrude' on their life in any conceivable way. Robert Frost may not have meant it to be an unquestioned absolute, but he was on the money with: "Good fences make good neighbors." And to answer his semi-rhetorical question, you KNOW what you are 'walling in' (your own control over your life and property) and what you are 'walling out' (nutty meddlesome contentious, potentially litigious and apparently loathsome people!)
3. Send an absolutely neutral (I know it's hard - so have someone neutral review and edit it!) letter, explaining that she has mentioned seeing some damage on her side of the fence, that you see none on yours, and that if she is really under the belief that somehow your dogs caused it, that with proper proof of that claim, of course you area good neighbor, and will gladly pay full cost of any restitution, without fail. And you need to mean this. It sounds like there is no possible way, but who knows? Paying a landscaper to throw some fill and or sod, and or to get a fence guy to bend and stake something is downright CHEAP compared to everliving peace of mind that not only did you do more than the right thing, that you have now inoculated yourself from possible future trouble or liability. Daytime TV is full of court shows, ten hours a day on four channels with NOTHING but people screwing with each other when they know better, but were given a little perceived opening, or felt slighted. Defuse, play nice, close the books, and seal off the chances/opportunities for further interaction. Don't be rude, just make yourself, your dogs, and your property unavailable and out of view of her restlessly searching need to get involved in conflict.
So my point is to be like Ghandi -- committed to peace, but resolute in your intention -- in this case, to remove and then seal yourself away from her negative impact on your life.
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I would check the property line to see if her fense is compliant as many areas require a certain setback from the property line for fense to be installed & a permit is required at least it is in our area. If she did not have a permit or is on the property line, your city may require its removal & relocation.
As far as the dogs, your situation just happened yesterday a couple of times between my neighbor & the person who lives behind him. I heard what sounded like a hugh dog fight when I was out in my yard. The neighbors dogs were biting at the fense to get at each other. This is a pitbull & the other is a shephard mix. All the neighbors did was yell & get the dogs. Knowing my next door neighbor, his dog probably got a good reprimend.
I also have a crazy neighbor at another location, She takes fits & wants to pick, pick, pick at things. I am good at avoiding her.
Good luck with your nutty neighbor.
As far as the dogs, your situation just happened yesterday a couple of times between my neighbor & the person who lives behind him. I heard what sounded like a hugh dog fight when I was out in my yard. The neighbors dogs were biting at the fense to get at each other. This is a pitbull & the other is a shephard mix. All the neighbors did was yell & get the dogs. Knowing my next door neighbor, his dog probably got a good reprimend.
I also have a crazy neighbor at another location, She takes fits & wants to pick, pick, pick at things. I am good at avoiding her.
Good luck with your nutty neighbor.