Worst Cars on the Road

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gatorman
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Worst Cars on the Road

Post by gatorman »

According to Forbes:

http://www.forbes.com/2010/04/07/worst- ... ysler.html

Not sure I agree with the F-250 selection, I've always had good luck with Ford trucks.

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ryuns
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Post by ryuns »

Pretty tough on the Americans. It wasn't a condition of the bailout that they start, y'know, making good cars?

By the way, a fantastic story about American vs Japanese car manufacturing practices from This American Life. Highly recommend it. http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-a ... /403/nummi
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Post by Dagwood »

Surprised by inclusion of the F250. If I had to venture it guess, the bad reviews come from people buying what is a commercial grade, tough, stiff riding truck for personal use instead of business (construction) use.

The other vehicles seem spot on for inclusion.

The big Caddy SUV. Perfect for those with more money than brains. Why buy the Chevy / GMC version when you can spend more for the same thing. Handles like boat and consumes gas like one too.

The subcompact GM trucks are also awful. The engines run terribly rough. I believe they are five cylinders, which even the Germans can't make smooth.

The Aveo also deserves inclusion. Just an awful little car. And pointless when you can buy a slightly used Corolla or Civic for the same money and they are far superior.

Anything from Chrysler post Daimler seperation is also of highly questionable build quality.
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Post by norookie »

Just having noticed or considered,.... I think some states allow alot of stuff on the road that you'd never see in other states. AZ being one, where you still see pinto's/ corvairs/ opal's/ and such, because they last forever out there with little deterioration except from the sun. Unrestored of course. I imagine it has to do with the states auto inspection. I've always thought foreign autos were superior. JMO -just sayin-
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Post by harland »

I think the Dodge Nitro should receive a special award for being the worst looking of the bunch...
Last edited by harland on Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by tadamsmar »

They used Consumer Reports, in part.

A vehicle can get a black dot in Consumer Reports with only 3% incidence,
a black dot means between 3% and 100% and above average incidence.

So, a vehicle can get a black dot and 97% of the owners never see a problem.
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Post by Alex Frakt »

The title of the article is misleading. It's more of a "worst all around" than "worst-made" cars list since they looked at CR's value and safety scores along with dependability and reliability.

For example the F-250 had an average rather than a poor J.D. Power Dependability Score.
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Post by ryuns »

The automakers' responses are quite interesting. http://www.forbes.com/2010/04/07/worst- ... onses.html

Refreshing that no one attacks the methodology.
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Post by 3CT_Paddler »

ryuns wrote:Pretty tough on the Americans. It wasn't a condition of the bailout that they start, y'know, making good cars?

By the way, a fantastic story about American vs Japanese car manufacturing practices from This American Life. Highly recommend it. http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-a ... /403/nummi
This is really interesting. After listening to the first couple of minutes of this I have no sympathy for domestic car companies' woes. It is sickening this level of incompetence was/is allowed because of an organization that holds an employer hostage *and poor management*.
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Post by Fear and Loathing »

tadamsmar wrote:They used Consumer Reports, in part.

A vehicle can get a black dot in Consumer Reports with only 3% incidence,
a black dot means between 3% and 100% and above average incidence.

So, a vehicle can get a black dot and 97% of the owners never see a problem.
So if a car sells 10,000,000 copies (not an unreasonable number), and 3% have issues, then 300,000 cars will have problems. While the percentage of cars is small the number is large.
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Post by atomiclightbulb »

Dagwood wrote: The big Caddy SUV. Perfect for those with more money than brains. Why buy the Chevy / GMC version when you can spend more for the same thing. Handles like boat and consumes gas like one too.
Every Escalade I've come across is plastered in political bumper stickers of the most ignorant kind. The drivers of these cars are fairly obnoxious on the road too and will cut anyone off. :x They are worse than the kids in riced-out Civics who think they are fast just because they have a noisy can on the exhaust and a huge wing spoiler and try to race everyone :x
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Post by MWCA »

atomiclightbulb wrote:
Dagwood wrote: The big Caddy SUV. Perfect for those with more money than brains. Why buy the Chevy / GMC version when you can spend more for the same thing. Handles like boat and consumes gas like one too.
Every Escalade I've come across is plastered in political bumper stickers of the most ignorant kind. The drivers of these cars are fairly obnoxious on the road too and will cut anyone off. :x They are worse than the kids in riced-out Civics who think they are fast just because they have a noisy can on the exhaust and a huge wing spoiler and try to race everyone :x
Interesting in California I see Prius with bumper stickers and the such. However, very few Escalades with such things.
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Post by strafe »

atomiclightbulb wrote:
Dagwood wrote: The big Caddy SUV. Perfect for those with more money than brains. Why buy the Chevy / GMC version when you can spend more for the same thing. Handles like boat and consumes gas like one too.
Every Escalade I've come across is plastered in political bumper stickers of the most ignorant kind. The drivers of these cars are fairly obnoxious on the road too and will cut anyone off. :x They are worse than the kids in riced-out Civics who think they are fast just because they have a noisy can on the exhaust and a huge wing spoiler and try to race everyone :x
This must be a regional phenomenon. The Scion xB is the only car I can think of with disproportionate # of bumperstickers of any kind. Nothing universal like where you live.

As for the ignorant bumper stickers in southern California, most that I see are affixed to Priuses (Prii? Priora?) and Subarus piloted by inconsiderate drivers holding up traffic in the passing lanes.

Escalades out here tend to have obnoxious subwoofers instead of bumperstickers.
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Post by kfindley79 »

strafe wrote:
atomiclightbulb wrote:
Dagwood wrote: The big Caddy SUV. Perfect for those with more money than brains. Why buy the Chevy / GMC version when you can spend more for the same thing. Handles like boat and consumes gas like one too.
Every Escalade I've come across is plastered in political bumper stickers of the most ignorant kind. The drivers of these cars are fairly obnoxious on the road too and will cut anyone off. :x They are worse than the kids in riced-out Civics who think they are fast just because they have a noisy can on the exhaust and a huge wing spoiler and try to race everyone :x
This must be a regional phenomenon. The Scion xB is the only car I can think of with disproportionate # of bumperstickers of any kind. Nothing universal like where you live.

As for the ignorant bumper stickers in southern California, most that I see are affixed to Priuses (Prii? Priora?) and Subarus piloted by inconsiderate drivers holding up traffic in the passing lanes.

Escalades out here tend to have obnoxious subwoofers instead of bumperstickers.
Don't forget the 24" wheels which the owner doesn't realize will only last a year and will most likely not be able to afford a replacement set. :roll:
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Post by tim1999 »

This will certainly cause me to receive some bashing, and possibly a thread lock, but speaking of bumper stickers...I've always noticed that the number of bumper stickers is directly proportional to how obese the (usually female) driver is. At least in my area.
Last edited by tim1999 on Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by tim1999 »

kfindley79 wrote: Don't forget the 24" wheels which the owner doesn't realize will only last a year and will most likely not be able to afford a replacement set. :roll:
Seriously...hit a pothole the size of a bagel, and those tires (and possibly rims) are finished.
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Post by tadamsmar »

kb0fhp wrote:
tadamsmar wrote:They used Consumer Reports, in part.

A vehicle can get a black dot in Consumer Reports with only 3% incidence,
a black dot means between 3% and 100% and above average incidence.

So, a vehicle can get a black dot and 97% of the owners never see a problem.
So if a car sells 10,000,000 copies (not an unreasonable number), and 3% have issues, then 300,000 cars will have problems. While the percentage of cars is small the number is large.
True. But most buyers will experience no problems. I had that experience with a 1997 Neon. It got black dots, the resale value went to pot, but the car was pretty reliable for me.

Of course, the black dot could be a real lemon, you have to investigate the black dot.

This is a known problem in measure theory with converting from numerical scales to categories. The meaning of a black dot varies from 3 to 100, a factor of 30-fold.
Last edited by tadamsmar on Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by tadamsmar »

Another problem with the article is that Consumer Reports uses the NHTSA and/or IIHS ratings to provide safety ratings. But these rankings rank cars within weight categories and tend to ignore the fact that weight is a safety factor. That means the results will be biased in favor of smaller cars.

This is not the first time that Forbes has done this:

http://www.informedforlife.org/demos/FC ... pike...pdf
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Post by FCM »

With respect to the Escalade 24" wheels not lasting a year, is that because a thief will steal all 4 of them off the vehicle, similar to what happened to a neighbor of mine?
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Post by kfindley79 »

FCM wrote:With respect to the Escalade 24" wheels not lasting a year, is that because a thief will steal all 4 of them off the vehicle, similar to what happened to a neighbor of mine?
Hadn't thought of that as a cause but I suppose that is another risk when you roll the "big wheels".
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Post by atomiclightbulb »

FCM wrote:With respect to the Escalade 24" wheels not lasting a year, is that because a thief will steal all 4 of them off the vehicle, similar to what happened to a neighbor of mine?
Some of the Escalades I've seen are equipped with either chrome or multicolored light spinner things... they look so terrible that I can't imagine anyone wanting to steal them :lol:
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Post by BigD53 »

Ford Chevy and Dodge are the worst, hands down. Even with all the recent Toyota problems, I would buy a Japanese or Korean vehicle (Hyundai) before American.
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Post by ryuns »

3CT_Paddler wrote:
ryuns wrote:Pretty tough on the Americans. It wasn't a condition of the bailout that they start, y'know, making good cars?

By the way, a fantastic story about American vs Japanese car manufacturing practices from This American Life. Highly recommend it. http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-a ... /403/nummi
This is really interesting. After listening to the first couple of minutes of this I have no sympathy for domestic car companies' woes. It is sickening this level of incompetence was/is allowed because of an organization that holds an employer hostage *and poor management*.
Yeah, I think/hope that things have changed in some ways, but it was interesting how the Japanese style/strategy was just so superior and how much trouble they had replicating it here. I'm not sure how far you got, but it was interesting to hear how they tried to replicate the success at NUMMI in an entirely American plant in Van Nuys and it failed miserably. Without the careful training, the trips to Japan, superior management, and better quality Japanese parts, they just couldn't hack it.
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Post by p14175 »

I am not surprised the Jeep Wrangler made the list though I really thought their latest version of it, the JK, would do much better.
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Post by stratton »

I had a 2010 Chevy HHR as a rental while my car was being repaired.

It's a 50's style retro panel truck style. I like it. The HHR is ~1 ft shorter than my Subaru. You ride higher and sitting up about the same as a Subaru Forestor and the seats have the *best* lumbar support. It's really easy to get in and out of compared to bucket seats. Since it's wider and higher the cargo space is still good. The milage is 22/32 which a few better than my Subaru.

The problem is the HHR is made by GM.

Paul
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Post by jeremymcnelson »

when Jeff Dunham wrecked the appearance of the Prius, it gave me the idea that it's not a good-looking car at all. :lol:
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Post by SpringMan »

stratton wrote:I had a 2010 Chevy HHR as a rental while my car was being repaired.

It's a 50's style retro panel truck style. I like it. The HHR is ~1 ft shorter than my Subaru. You ride higher and sitting up about the same as a Subaru Forestor and the seats have the *best* lumbar support. It's really easy to get in and out of compared to bucket seats. Since it's wider and higher the cargo space is still good. The milage is 22/32 which a few better than my Subaru.

The problem is the HHR is made by GM.

Paul
I wound not say being made by GM is a problem. The problem is the HHR is just a Chevy Cobalt with a retro Suburban body. It has no where near the off road capabilities of a Subaru. I considered an HHR myself back in 07. I am 6 foot tail and during a test drive I found my right knee was uncomfortably bumping into the floor mounted auto shifter. The price of the HHR new in 07 was about $16K. I ended up with an 07 Chrysler Town & Country minivan for the same price. Mileage on the minivan is only 26 highway but it has a V6.
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