Gas Grill - Natural Gas vs Liquid Propane

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peskim
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Gas Grill - Natural Gas vs Liquid Propane

Post by peskim »

I've been in the market for a gas grill for quite some time now (looking for a good deal on a good product) and was wondering if I could get some input from Bogleheads. I've heard differing views on the two. A Lowes rep told me that natural gas will save more money in the long run since it just comes out of your gas bill, but you need to pay the one time fee to convert a grill to make it natural gas compatible. However, I've read on some websites that the cost is really negligible and it comes down to convenience - having to take the LP tank to get it refilled and with a natural gas grill one would not be able to move it around since it needs to be plugged in near the house.

Note: My house (in the patio) is already natural gas compatible so there will be no extra cost there. There might be the cost for the grill itself. Our budget is in the $200-$300 range. We will grill about once a week (wife and I), but about once a month we will host a small group of friends of no more than 10 people. We like to grill steaks, pork, burgers, salmon, and occasionally chicken (has been the toughest for me to get right).

I would really appreciate your recommendations of grills for people who have owned either or both types of grills or from people who like to grill.
LynnC
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Post by LynnC »

but you need to pay the one time fee to convert a grill to make it natural gas compatible.

No you don't. We just bought a new Weber natural gas grill from Lowes'. Grills either come with apropane tank or natural gas hook-up. Ours came with everything needed to hook up to our natural gas outlet on the patio.

I knew of someone who had propane explode on them and burn down part of their house. I never wanted propane because of that.

LynnC

http://www.weber.com/grills/?glid=2&mid=6
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Sheepdog
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Post by Sheepdog »

I have used gas grills with natural gas for over 40 years. You can buy them just for that purpose. I did the plumbing myself at two homes. At my lake cottage I useLP because that is all I have there. I prefer the natural gas.....no tank to refill...and I never run out. And, as Lynn said, safer too.
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ryuns
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Post by ryuns »

Sounds like NG is a no-brainer for you since the hook up will be so simple.

Depends on your personal convenience for getting propane too. My mom, eg, would have to drive about a mile to get a filled tank for a $19 trade in (or so). I'd have to drive closer to 10 miles and pay $25 or 30. But that's not even a thought with NG.

Ryan
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filmtheory
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Post by filmtheory »

Sorry for going beyond the OPs question but... A Weber with hardwood charcoal makes the best tasting bar-b-que hands down. I think its worth the extra fuss, which to me is fun anyway.
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peskim
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Post by peskim »

Yeah, it looks like NG is the way to go for me. That's a crazy propane story, LynnC. I've had my eye on a Weber E-310, but waiting for some kind of deal somewhere. I've recently come across and read some favorable reviews about Ducane grills. The Ducane affinity 3100 series looks like a good grill that would fit in my budget, but I haven't heard much about them. I know they have some kind of affiliation with Weber, but I don't know if Weber directly makes Ducane grills. Any thoughts?
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Post by mickeyd »

I'm a griller/smoker that uses only oak or mesquite and never propane (or "propane accessories", as Hank Hill would say). Not even sure how one of those things operates~ some kind of evil I suspect....
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fishndoc
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Post by fishndoc »

I'm a recent convert to natural charcoal grilling, and much prefer the taste, but I still have my gas grill on the screen porch for when the weather is too bad for "real grill'n" out on the patio.

I would recommend shelling out the extra bucks and get the natural gas Weber. I've never known anyone who didn't love their Weber grill.
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dekecarver
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Post by dekecarver »

Although it cost more than a Weber I'd suggest you look into purchasing a Big Green Egg. I finally bought one and have no regrets.
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Kenkat
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Post by Kenkat »

Can't believe no one suggested propane.

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LynnC
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Post by LynnC »

Weber Genesis 320 NG is SWEET. I would prefer the Weber with the charcoal, but usually end up with everything tasting like lighter fluid. :D

We bought ours at Lowes last month and paid the extra money to get it assembled and delivered. We got 10% off which covered assembly and delivery fee. No way to get it home otherwise. Lowes is about 40 minutes from our home. We are very pleased and the thermometer is quite accurate, so you can roast, too.

I've had a Ducane and it didn't last all that long.

LynnC
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Post by fishndoc »

dekecarver wrote:Although it cost more than a Weber I'd suggest you look into purchasing a Big Green Egg. I finally bought one and have no regrets.
BGE's are nice, but they are charcoal, and very pricey.

For someone interested in a high-end charcoal grill/oven/smoker, I would recommend looking at the double steel walled "Bubba Keg" - they are on sale right now at Home Depot for ~$450 (maybe less if you negotiate), because the company is coming out with a new model (mainly just a different name: Big Steel Keg). They seem have the cooking ability of the BGE, but are lighter, not prone to cracking, and much cheaper.

Plus, "Bubba Keg" is a really cool name for a BBQ grill.
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roybto
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Post by roybto »

I purchased a propane grill a couple of years ago and found instructions for converting to NG on the net. It's pretty easy--you need to get appropriate fittings and a hose made for the purpose to connect the NG instead of the propane tank. The tank connection comes with a regulator, which you don't use for the NG. But you have to unscrew the fuel orifices from the burners and drill them out to slightly larger sizes for use with NG. This is both due to the differing heat content of the fuels, and the fact that the pressure of NG in the lines is less than the pressure delivered by the propane regulator. The larger orifice sizes compensate for the differences, so your burners then produce the same amount of heat with NG as they would have with propane.

The biggest advantage I've found is that I've had no more problems with running out of fuel in the middle of cooking dinner!

Nevertheless, if you are not comfortable with the natural gas plumbing job, you should hire a pro.
JoinToday
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Buy two BBQs

Post by JoinToday »

Buy both a Weber gas & a Weber charcoal. I bought a cheap propane BBQ ages ago, & had to replace the burner regularly, had hot spots, etc. Replaced it with a 22 inch Weber kettle (charcoal) - probably the best bargain in BBQs. I currently have a Weber Natural Gas for quick things (hamburgers, fish, shrimp, vegetables) and a Kamado (similar to a Big Green Egg, but better) for longer cooking items (chicken, roasts, pork butt, turkey).

Get a chimney for the charcoal, not lighter fluid.
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rustymutt
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Post by rustymutt »

I own a weber grill with stainless cooking rack. LP gas and i've got a smoker box that i fill with wet hickory chucks. MMMM mmm Good.
Best tasting pork chops and steaks you ever had. I'd put it up agiast any type of grill or smoker. I also own a Trager smoker for large items, such as turkeys or large roast.

I used hickory soaked chunks in my Weber gas grill, and do smoke pork roast on it. You are correct in them tasting as good as any smoker out there on the market. I use the front burner on low and slowly smoke these roast on the rack in back. Takes about 6 hours for a 5-6 pound roast to be 170 internally. Takes about 30 minutes for the family to eat it. It's the best smoked pork I've ever had. I use Famous Dave's pork rub.
Last edited by rustymutt on Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
deerhunter
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Post by deerhunter »

Natural Gas. I have had a Weber for years. The ease and convenience of never changing tanks, running out of fuel, and lower cost makes me wonder why anyone who has natural gas at his house would use propane. (unless he wants to take the barbecue with him on trips etc). Use chips and smoker if you want the real barbecue flavor.
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Mister Moolah
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Post by Mister Moolah »

Unfortunately, no natural gas for me. I have propane though! I'm looking for a grill myself, and I'm debating to go with propane, charcoal, or infrared. It seems like infrared is only really good for cooking steaks from what I'm reading. I might go with a small propane grill and charcoal grill and just have one of each! What to do...
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Post by rustymutt »

filmtheory wrote:Sorry for going beyond the OPs question but... A Weber with hardwood charcoal makes the best tasting bar-b-que hands down. I think its worth the extra fuss, which to me is fun anyway.
I use LP and place water soaked chunks of hickory or some other hard wood for flavor and it's every bite as good as the charcoal grill I had before. So, I have to disagree with you on this one.
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Post by zinnia »

IMO spending 200-300 on a grill is a decision you'll regret. Spend the additional 200 and buy a Weber. It will outlast 2 or 3 of the cheaper grills making it more cost effective over time....
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Post by rustymutt »

zinnia wrote:IMO spending 200-300 on a grill is a decision you'll regret. Spend the additional 200 and buy a Weber. It will outlast 2 or 3 of the cheaper grills making it more cost effective over time....
I love my Weber with stainless steel grills. I agree with this above posters remarks. Spend the extra money for a quality built grill.

When it comes time for us to clean our inside oven, the grill grates off the weber go right in the oven and come out like new again.
Last edited by rustymutt on Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by RyanC »

LynnC wrote:Weber Genesis 320 NG is SWEET. I would prefer the Weber with the charcoal, but usually end up with everything tasting like lighter fluid. :D

LynnC
Try an electric charcoal starter. You can get them at Lowes or any hardware store for about $10. It takes about 30 minutes to get the coals ready, but no need for any lighter fluid. It works great in my Weber!
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Post by RichC »

Charcoal is the way to go. Weber has a fantastic setup. It uses propane to start the charcoal, so no need for lighter fluid. And it is designed brilliantly with the user in mind, from startup to cleanup. Here's a link:

http://www.amazon.com/Weber-1421001-Per ... 159&sr=8-6

Read the customer reviews... they tell the story.

If you want to move up the food chain a bit, buy a big green egg. It is da bomb. I own two.

www.biggreenegg.com

The way it cooks keeps the food incredibly moist. My kids eat foods cooked on the green egg that they otherwise would not eat.

Cheers,

Rich
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Post by Sam I Am »

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Post by interplanetjanet »

LynnC wrote:Weber Genesis 320 NG is SWEET. I would prefer the Weber with the charcoal, but usually end up with everything tasting like lighter fluid. :D
Several places I've lived have had lighter fluid bans - because of them, I started to use charcoal "chimney starters" like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Weber-7416-Rapidf ... B000WEOQV8

They work very well, you just put some newspaper in under the charcoal and light it, then pour the coals out once they get hot. If it's windy or if your charcoal or hardwood takes a bit more work to light, sprinkle the newspaper with cooking oil first - I got this idea from Alton Brown. It keeps it burning longer and hotter.

I had a propane grill blow up on me once. I'd just turned some meat over, closed it, and was walking back to the house - and then had an action-movie style explosion and fireball go off behind me. It blew glass everywhere (this was an old grill) and could have really hurt me if I'd been next to it. It's probably paranoia but I've avoided gas grills since. I do have a 50000+ BTU propane burner I use for a turkey-sized deep fryer and wok cooking outdoors, and that is simple enough (and never used unattended) for me not to worry about it. It's great for doing big shellfish boils and cooking during prolonged power outages too.

For those of you with grills that can use both propane and natural gas, check your owners' manual carefully before hooking them up. The appliances I've had that can connect to both require minor changes depending on the fuel type, propane orifices are smaller and may require different overpressure valves. Both the gas dryer and water heater I converted required the same changes.

-Janet
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Post by rustymutt »

RichC wrote:Charcoal is the way to go. Weber has a fantastic setup. It uses propane to start the charcoal, so no need for lighter fluid. And it is designed brilliantly with the user in mind, from startup to cleanup. Here's a link:

http://www.amazon.com/Weber-1421001-Per ... 159&sr=8-6

Read the customer reviews... they tell the story.

If you want to move up the food chain a bit, buy a big green egg. It is da bomb. I own two.

www.biggreenegg.com

The way it cooks keeps the food incredibly moist. My kids eat foods cooked on the green egg that they otherwise would not eat.

Cheers,

Rich
Are you that guy called "the primal grill dude"?
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Post by Jake46 »

I use a natural gas, Napoleon grill for most grilling. It's so convenient not worrying about the need to change propane bottles, especially in cold weather. I use a Weber charcoal grill a lot in the summer but prefer not to mess with it on snowy days.
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Gas Grill - Natural Gas vs Liquid Propane

Post by shawcroft »

This series of posts is about 3 years old. Are there any current views on the advantages/disadvantages of having a direct link-up to natural gas versus a propane tank for a gas grille. The warmer weather is (in theory) soon to arrive in our home state (Connecticut) and we have been considering a gas grille for our deck. Is propane safer than natural gas or does each have its own hazards to consider?
Shawcroft
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Re: Gas Grill - Natural Gas vs Liquid Propane

Post by pshonore »

Certainly NG is cheaper and you never run out but both propane and NG have an explosion hazard. Just look at the explosion last week in East Harlem.
If you go with NG than your "portability factor" is zero. You can only use it in one location.
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Re: Gas Grill - Natural Gas vs Liquid Propane

Post by sesq »

peskim wrote: We like to grill steaks, pork, burgers, salmon, and occasionally chicken (has been the toughest for me to get right).
This is my go to for chicken. I make the rub in quantity since we use it so often and even bought the fancy pan they sell after a while (regular cans are fine too, tallboys aren't needed). Its always nice and moist.

http://www.weber.com/recipes/poultry/beer-can-chicken
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Re: Gas Grill - Natural Gas vs Liquid Propane

Post by Professor Emeritus »

pshonore wrote:Certainly NG is cheaper and you never run out but both propane and NG have an explosion hazard. Just look at the explosion last week in East Harlem.
If you go with NG than your "portability factor" is zero. You can only use it in one location.
I've dealt with both, A lot. Both personally and professionally. As long as the piping is done by a qualified person there are fewer overall problems with NG. But both are rational .
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Re: Gas Grill - Natural Gas vs Liquid Propane

Post by bottlecap »

Basically, your decision is convenience. Propane may be a little hotter and perhaps slightly less safe, but problems are rare. The big difference to me is that NG is more convenient.

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yatesd
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Re: Gas Grill - Natural Gas vs Liquid Propane

Post by yatesd »

Propane has these potential safety hazards:

- Spouse gets mad when fuel runs out
- Get in car accident with a LP tank in the vehicle
- Back injury while changing out propane tank
- Robbed at local store while paying for propane tank
- Someone steals your LP tank on the back deck and then sees all the cool stuff inside your house

:sharebeer :D
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Re: Gas Grill - Natural Gas vs Liquid Propane

Post by Luke Duke »

Basically with propane you have portability with little upfront cost and with NG you have convenience with potentially a significant upfront cost.

I grill at different places on my patio depending on what's going on, so I value the portability aspect. I would also have to plumb a NG connection which would cost me several hundred dollars or more.

I have 3 tanks. I refill when two are empty so I always have at least one full tank at all times.
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Re: Gas Grill - Natural Gas vs Liquid Propane

Post by Oilburner »

The cost to convert the grill to natural gas should be minimal if you do it yourself. There are probably kits out there to do this conversion (different burner orifice and possibly regulator) for about $25. A general rule of thumb is propane in the 4-gallon BBQ tanks cost roughly 3 - 4 times what natural gas does for the same heating value. Figure you use a tank a year, you would save about $22 a year. If that is all you use it is hardly worth the effort to convert and is not cost effective if you have to have a plumber run a gas line (I got quoted $30 a foot for half-inch line for a gas log set). Running black iron gas pipe is amazingly simple to do (do pull a permit if required, though). It simply screws together (use pipe wrenches and the proper thread sealer and hang using pipe hangers per code). That is what I ended up doing for an 80-foot run of half-inch black iron ($220 in supplies vs. about $2400 plumber cost).
Last edited by Oilburner on Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Gas Grill - Natural Gas vs Liquid Propane

Post by Oilburner »

yatesd wrote:Propane has these potential safety hazards:

- Spouse gets mad when fuel runs out
- Get in car accident with a LP tank in the vehicle
- Back injury while changing out propane tank
- Robbed at local store while paying for propane tank
- Someone steals your LP tank on the back deck and then sees all the cool stuff inside your house

:sharebeer :D
Another is propane is heavier than air. NG is lighter than air. In confined places, leaking propane flows along the floor and collects (pools) in low spots and can be ignited by an ignition source, where as NG can leak can harmlessly into the air (won't pool and ignite) (provided the leak is not too big and in a confined space).
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Re: Gas Grill - Natural Gas vs Liquid Propane

Post by inbox788 »

yatesd wrote:Propane has these potential safety hazards:

- Spouse gets mad when fuel runs out
- Get in car accident with a LP tank in the vehicle
- Back injury while changing out propane tank
- Robbed at local store while paying for propane tank
- Someone steals your LP tank on the back deck and then sees all the cool stuff inside your house

:sharebeer :D
I have a propane grill, but I want natural gas. Just haven't gotten around to outfitting a hookup, but if I had a hookup, and were buying a new grill, it would be a no brainer. There's one situation where propane might come in handy, and that's if there's a natural disaster that impacts the distribution system. We just had a medium sized earthquake in SoCal, and one of the risks is gas leakage, so in a bad case, gas may get shut down. Having propane to boil water and cook food might come in handy (though never had to use it). Also, if you have other things that take propane/tanks (i.e. campers, camping lamps, stoves, etc.), having a BBQ may help with keeping an extra supply on hand.
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Re: Gas Grill - Natural Gas vs Liquid Propane

Post by johnubc »

Oilburner wrote:
yatesd wrote:, where as NG can leak can harmlessly into the air (won't pool and ignite) (provided the leak is not too big and in a confined space).
Do not tell that to the people that lived in the building in Harlem last week.
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Re: Gas Grill - Natural Gas vs Liquid Propane

Post by placeholder »

I think that would have failed the "not too big" test.
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Re: Gas Grill - Natural Gas vs Liquid Propane

Post by Professor Emeritus »

Oilburner wrote:
yatesd wrote:Propane has these potential safety hazards:

- Spouse gets mad when fuel runs out
- Get in car accident with a LP tank in the vehicle
- Back injury while changing out propane tank
- Robbed at local store while paying for propane tank
- Someone steals your LP tank on the back deck and then sees all the cool stuff inside your house

:sharebeer :D
Another is propane is heavier than air. NG is lighter than air. In confined places, leaking propane flows along the floor and collects (pools) in low spots and can be ignited by an ignition source, where as NG can leak can harmlessly into the air (won't pool and ignite) (provided the leak is not too big and in a confined space).
Please do not repeat this suburban legend All gas molecules mix completely no matter what the molecular weight. A cold cloud of recently released liquified gas will form a cold gas mass that may be heavier than the warm air around it but it makes no difference if it's propane or liquified natural gas.

They just killed 8 people in NY with a natural gas explosion.

I teach this in class by wiping ammonia on the blackboard. Ammonia is lighter than air but the ammonia diffuses everywhere in the room at an equal rate.
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Re: Gas Grill - Natural Gas vs Liquid Propane

Post by yatesd »

It doesn't seem this thread should be focused on NG safety, just NG vs. LP pros & cons. The assumption with a NG grill is that a house has NG hooked up already and is using it for things like a furnace, fireplace, stove, water heater, dryer, etc.
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Re: Gas Grill - Natural Gas vs Liquid Propane

Post by Lon »

I have a Webber Gas Grill on my patio with a natural gas hook up. Attachments came with the grill when I bought it. I love it and use it almost daily year round. Price as I recall was around $400 at Lowe's.
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Re: Gas Grill - Natural Gas vs Liquid Propane

Post by Professor Emeritus »

yatesd wrote:It doesn't seem this thread should be focused on NG safety, just NG vs. LP pros & cons. The assumption with a NG grill is that a house has NG hooked up already and is using it for things like a furnace, fireplace, stove, water heater, dryer, etc.
The safety issue comes up when folks suggest saving money by "do it yourself" pipe fitting or conversion.
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Re: Gas Grill - Natural Gas vs Liquid Propane

Post by yatesd »

Professor Emeritus wrote:
yatesd wrote:It doesn't seem this thread should be focused on NG safety, just NG vs. LP pros & cons. The assumption with a NG grill is that a house has NG hooked up already and is using it for things like a furnace, fireplace, stove, water heater, dryer, etc.
The safety issue comes up when folks suggest saving money by "do it yourself" pipe fitting or conversion.
Good point!
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Re: Gas Grill - Natural Gas vs Liquid Propane

Post by dratkinson »

Growing up the family's favorite meal was BBQ'd chicken cooked on a charcoal grill from Portable Kitchen (thick cast aluminum, almost bullet-proof): http://www.pkgrills.com/

Chicken was basted with lemon/butter: 1 stick melted butter, 1 fresh-squeezed lemon. Yummy.

Suddenly, I'm hungry.

Between NG and LPG, would choose NG for the long-term simplicity. But the ritual surrounding charcoal better supports male bonding and our hunter/gatherer roots. :)
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Re: Gas Grill - Natural Gas vs Liquid Propane

Post by sunshinebottom »

I've had many propane grills over the years. The Big Green Egg is a delight to own and use. It is very versatile and so easy to use. It's quick to start, economical and tasty. It is truly a lifetime grill. I plan on passing it down to my children.
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Re: Gas Grill - Natural Gas vs Liquid Propane

Post by jdb »

sunshinebottom wrote:I've had many propane grills over the years. The Big Green Egg is a delight to own and use. It is very versatile and so easy to use. It's quick to start, economical and tasty. It is truly a lifetime grill. I plan on passing it down to my children.
As someone looking forward to grilling steaks on the Big Green Egg this evening could not agree more. Once you grill or smoke on the BGE never go back to gas grills (except for rotisserie grilling).
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