How to securely dispose old computer?

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Caduceus
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How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by Caduceus »

I want to discard an extremely old laptop (from the Stone Age)

Is it enough for me to remove the hard drive? Once I've done that, is there anything else I have to do? Is RAM also stored in the hard drive or is it some other component I have to remove? Is data stored anywhere else on the laptop?

Thanks!
crg11
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by crg11 »

The only part of the computer with data on it is the hard drive. Once that is removed, you can dispose the laptop (hopefully somewhere that accepts electronics).
qui
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by qui »

Caduceus wrote:I want to discard an extremely old laptop (from the Stone Age)

Is it enough for me to remove the hard drive? Once I've done that, is there anything else I have to do? Is RAM also stored in the hard drive or is it some other component I have to remove? Is data stored anywhere else on the laptop?

Thanks!
RAM is a separate component. However, RAM is volatile memory, which means that it only holds the data while the machine is powered on. As soon as your turn off your computer, the RAM no longer holds any data. For this reason, your RAM does not need to be removed.

Your hard drive is nonvolatile memory, which means it maintains data even without power. This component should be removed and destroyed. An industrial shredder would be most ideal. Since the machine is so old, you almost certainly have a spinning disk drive. If you don't have access to a shredder, you could try to take it apart and smash the disks with a hammer. In any case, this drive should be the only location on the machine which needs to be removed.

Sidenote: it is a common myth that you can delete the data from a drive by passing over it with a big magnet. This is false.
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stickman731
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by stickman731 »

Remove the hard drive - smash with a sledge hammer a number to times and place it bleach or salt water for a couple days. There is no real way to erase the data.
Fclevz
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by Fclevz »

Just use a secure erase program that overwrites the data a bunch of times. No need to be too paranoid.
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samsoes
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by samsoes »

There's a nifty free program that securely erases data from a hard drive. Once the program is installed, it creates a bootable CD/DVD which will run a menu-driven program to securely erase an entire drive (or just the free-space on a drive keeping the non-deleted data intact).

Check-out: http://www.killdisk.com/downloadfree.htm

(Note: there is a paid version, but the free version works great.)
Last edited by samsoes on Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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goonie
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by goonie »

Another free erase program is DBAN. I've used it several times. I don't bother with physically destroying the drive. I just give it to an electronics recycler after wiping it.

http://www.dban.org/
PatSea
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by PatSea »

I just recently destroyed an old hard drive by removing it from the desktop, put it in a large vice and squeezed it severely, then I took a large hammer and mashed it.
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by jebmke »

goonie wrote:Another free erase program is DBAN. I've used it several times. I don't bother with physically destroying the drive. I just give it to an electronics recycler after wiping it.

http://www.dban.org/
I recycle or give away 4-5 computers every year or so from our TaxAide inventory. DBAN is what we use to wipe the disk.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
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SmileyFace
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by SmileyFace »

As others have stated removing old hard drive is enough. Not sure why everyone wants you to destroy it. You can save it and use it for a backup drive. For $20 or so you can buy a USB connecred dock that the drive plugs into. You can use this dock with all your old hard drives.
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SmileyFace
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by SmileyFace »

Here's how you can use the old drive:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00FDLCT ... _oh_bia_dp#
hudson
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by hudson »

As everyone already said, removing the hard drive is the key.
I never trusted any software programs to destroy the data on my hard drives.
When I worked in info tech I wanted to be 100% certain that no data was going out of the building on scrap computers. We had a machinist slice up the hard drives with a band saw; then we sent them to a trusted company that certified destruction of the drives. In the IT world, data loss will cost you your job.
I would only trust physical destruction, storage, or re-use. Software solutions scare me...they probably work just fine...but not for me.
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cheese_breath
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by cheese_breath »

I always remove the hard drive and open it up (quite a job in itself) and take out the disk. Then I do a job on it with a nail and hammer, and bend it over on itself. Note... I've had a couple external drives go bad over my life and done the same thing with them.
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fishnskiguy
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by fishnskiguy »

Sitting on my bookshelf are the two hard drives from my last two computers. Both were hit with two rounds of OO buckshot from a range of ten feet. The NSA might be able to get some data from them but few others could.

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dodecahedron
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by dodecahedron »

hudson wrote:As everyone already said, removing the hard drive is the key.

I would only trust physical destruction, storage, or re-use. Software solutions scare me...they probably work just fine...but not for me.
cheese_breath wrote:I always remove the hard drive and open it up (quite a job in itself) and take out the disk. Then I do a job on it with a nail and hammer, and bend it over on itself. Note... I've had a couple external drives go bad over my life and done the same thing with them.
As cheese_breath noted, the sheer physical work of removing the hard drive is very daunting to me since I am not very handy with screwdrivers and I have a boatload of computers (we must have at least 20 in our house, since my late husband was always upgrading and sometimes had research projects that involved operating multiple machines in parallel. Some are very old and the screws are likely rusted in place given the climate conditions where they have been stored. We bought our first machine with a hard drive in 1982, an IBM XT. $5K for a computer with 128K of RAM (expandable to 640K) and a 10 MG hard drive! Two years later,we were so excited to get an IBM AT with 20 MG hard drive. We still have them and others in the somewhat dank basement. More are in the attic. Some are scattered in various places around the house. I am sure all our machines have sensitive data on them (including data from his clients at the time, business financial records and correspondence. Also tax return data. Initially I did our taxes in spreadsheets I created, first in SuperCalc, then Lotus 1-2-3, then various tax software.)

Also, peripherals! We have a bunch of printers and scanners, most of which we no longer use but I am afraid to toss them because don't they store information also?

Are there secure and ethical businesses that will just deal with these for me in environmentally sensitive ways?
Last edited by dodecahedron on Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
JW-Retired
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by JW-Retired »

PatSea wrote:I just recently destroyed an old hard drive by removing it from the desktop, put it in a large vice and squeezed it severely, then I took a large hammer and mashed it.
I've found that old desktop hard drives are extremely sturdy devices. Are you positive you actually deformed the platters? Squeezing and mashing might not do it.

Laptop hard drives are easier. :)
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dodecahedron
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by dodecahedron »

The former head of IT at my employer (an institution subject to Gramm-Leach-Bliley privacy law provisions) strongly recommended we use a sledge-hammer on old hard drives. He said he had one we could borrow.
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by peppers »

Makita impact driver works very well. It is a very liberating and therapeutic experience.
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dolphinsaremammals
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by dolphinsaremammals »

dodecahedron wrote:
As cheese_breath noted, the sheer physical work of removing the hard drive is very daunting to me since I am not very handy with screwdrivers and I have a boatload of computers (we must have at least 20 in our house, since my late husband was always upgrading and sometimes had research projects that involved operating multiple machines in parallel. Some are very old and the screws are likely rusted in place given the climate conditions where they have been stored. We bought our first machine with a hard drive in 1982, an IBM XT. $5K for a computer with 128K of RAM (expandable to 640K) and a 10 MG hard drive! Two years later,we were so excited to get an IBM AT with 20 MG hard drive. We still have them and others in the somewhat dank basement. More are in the attic. Some are scattered in various places around the house. I am sure all our machines have sensitive data on them (including data from his clients at the time, business financial records and correspondence. Also tax return data. Initially I did our taxes in spreadsheets I created, first in SuperCalc, then Lotus 1-2-3, then various tax software.)

Also, peripherals! We have a bunch of printers and scanners, most of which we no longer use but I am afraid to toss them because don't they store information also?

Are there secure and ethical businesses that will just deal with these for me in environmentally sensitive ways?
Do yourself a favor and get rid of any of these you aren't emotionally attached to and that you can get the data holding components out of to keep until you figure out what to do with them. I made several trips to e-recycling with the backseat of my car stuffed with computers and printers. I feel a few pangs about the Alpha, etc. but I feel better that all this stuff is not cluttering up the house.

There is some screw loosening fluid hardware stores sell, and there's always a crowbar :D

My all-in-ones are dumb devices and so hold no data. If you can post the models of printers and scanners that you have, people can probably tell you if they retain data.
Last edited by dolphinsaremammals on Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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SpringMan
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by SpringMan »

No need to remove the hard drive from a laptop. The hammer or shotgun approach will still work if applied through the case. I agree it is sometimes hard to open up laptops with all those strange and tiny screws.
Best Wishes, SpringMan
dolphinsaremammals
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by dolphinsaremammals »

You people shotgunning these metal devices, do you worry about ricochets?
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cheese_breath
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by cheese_breath »

dolphinsaremammals wrote: ... There is some screw loosening fluid hardware stores sell, and there's always a crowbar :D ...
Not as funny as it may seem. I actually pound on the case with a hand sledge hammer until one of the sides becomes loose enough to slip a screwdriver or chisel into it, and then I pound on the screwdriver / chisel until I force it open the rest of the way.
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TdF fan
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by TdF fan »

Another vote for DBAN. Avoids flying shrapnel.
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SpringMan
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by SpringMan »

dolphinsaremammals wrote:You people shotgunning these metal devices, do you worry about ricochets?
Shotgun use is not allowed in most cities but usually is in rural area. Recommend eye and ear protection and care be taken to assure people are not near by. On second thought maybe the shotgun solution is not such a good idea. :)
Best Wishes, SpringMan
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jabberwockOG
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by jabberwockOG »

The disks are only readable if they are perfectly balanced, super smooth and perfectly flat. The distance the heads fly over a disk are like a 747 flying 15 feet off the ground. I am a fan of hitting the HD some good wacks with a BFH. In a pinch you could also drill 10-12 holes in the HD - right thru the disk. That would damage and distort the disk to render it unreadable. Yea maybe NSA could read some of it in a highly specialized lab with million dollar instruments - if you are worried about them buy an industrial shredder.
testing321
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by testing321 »

Microsoft has a utility for wiping free space on a hard disk. You have to run it, sdelete.exe, in a command prompt. The webpage says it runs on XP and later OS.
https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sys ... 97443.aspx
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by LadyGeek »

It's time for a technology update.

Programs intended to do a "secure" erase on a hard drive should not be used for Solid State Drives. See: How To Securely Erase Your SSD Without Destroying It

If you have an SDD (Solid State Drive), use the manufacturer's supplied software.

(Also, don't defrag an SSD. There are no moving parts and defragging will wear out the drive. Windows 7 turns defragging of SSDs off by default. Don't change the setting.)
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AQ
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by AQ »

How about placing hard disks on garages, and drive over it?
mnaspbh
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by mnaspbh »

LadyGeek wrote:It's time for a technology update.

Programs intended to do a "secure" erase on a hard drive should not be used for Solid State Drives. See: How To Securely Erase Your SSD Without Destroying It

If you have an SDD (Solid State Drive), use the manufacturer's supplied software.

(Also, don't defrag an SSD. There are no moving parts and defragging will wear out the drive. Windows 7 turns defragging of SSDs off by default. Don't change the setting.)
The firmware on some platter-based hard drives can also leave copies of data around even after a "secure" erase. If the firmware detects what it thinks are marginal disk sectors, it may helpfully recopy the data to a good location and then mark the old sectors as bad so they shouldn't be read or written anymore. In practice, this may mean that there's data that can still be read by a moderately-skilled attacker (i.e., hacker who knows what they're doing, not the NSA-type). There's some modern malware that uses the bad-sector trick on purpose to hide itself, supposedly.

Physical damage to the disk platters should stop all but nation-state-level attackers. Physical destruction of the platters should stop those, too. Drilling a hole in the platters (maybe less risk of shrapnel), smashing them, or even just bending them so they can't spin anymore should do it. Use of firearms, explosives, or thermite is generally massive overkill, but can be theraputic. Proper eye (and ear) protection should be worn at all times, as the platters really can spray very sharp bits of broken material all over the place.

When recycling or selling an old computer, also make sure no removable media is left inside. Double-check for USB keys (usually pretty obvious), CDROMs/DVDs, and any kind of insertable memory cards especially on laptops that might have SD readers. If the system is old enough, double-check for floppy disks too.
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by likegarden »

We also take hard drives out, smash them with a sledge hammer and dispose them in a dumpster. You never know what a hacker had deposited on it.
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Epsilon Delta
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by Epsilon Delta »

Physical destruction is overrated compared to simply erasing the disk.

Assuming a half way competent erase program -- one that actually writes to the platter* -- an attempt to recover the overwritten information will require removing the platters and scanning it with a magnetic force microscope. This is exactly the same MFM you would need to recover data from a bent disk or one with bullet holes in it.

MFM are undergraduate (and industrial) laboratory equipment, not exclusive to national laboratories or the NSA.

Shredding a drive is not much help, it just adds a 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle. (so a few hours work).

Also perfection is not required for most of us. Most our disks have a little sensitive information swimming in a sea of mundane stuff. If a few random blocks are recovered due to operations of the disk controller or similar it's 99.99% certain to be a fragment of a YouTube cat video or similar. Compare this to a DoD disk where much of the disk is probably classified information and small leaks are likely to be harmful.

* You don't need DBAN for this, one pass of dd or erasing your files and filling the disk with cat pictures should do.
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Matigas
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by Matigas »

For denial procedures, we used bleach.
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by toast0 »

dodecahedron wrote:Are there secure and ethical businesses that will just deal with these for me in environmentally sensitive ways?
Some of your old computers may be of interest to collectors; you might check around to see if somebody wants to take it off your hands in exchange for removing the hard drive(s) while they pick them up.
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dodecahedron
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by dodecahedron »

toast0 wrote:
dodecahedron wrote:Are there secure and ethical businesses that will just deal with these for me in environmentally sensitive ways?
Some of your old computers may be of interest to collectors; you might check around to see if somebody wants to take it off your hands in exchange for removing the hard drive(s) while they pick them up.
That's a thought, though I seriously doubt these machines actually work (they have been stored in a dusty, dank basement for so many years and I can't even imagine it would be safe to plug one in for fear of the heat igniting all the dust inside, so I don't know how exciting a nonworking machine would be to a collector.
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by obgraham »

I bury the drives in my backyard, next to the spot where I bury people who have p'd me off enough.
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by Mudpuppy »

3-7 passes of a low-level software "shredder" that ignores the logical layers of the disk and just goes bit-by-bit, such as DBAN or dd, is good enough for most people's old-fashioned magnetic hard drives. Contrary to videos and movies, hackers aren't sifting through recycled hard drives looking for your social security number in most cases. The ones who are typically don't have access to the hardware needed to recover data from a low-level software shredder. And if you're worried about the NSA recovering data, you're asking the wrong forum for advice.

As for solid-state drives (SSDs), as previously mentioned, software shredders do not work with them due to the way they're designed. It's best to prevent the issue in the first place by using strong disk-level encryption with a strong password. One can also carefully select an SSD brand that comes with a secure erase option in the firmware.
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Caduceus
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by Caduceus »

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I don't own a gun, so that route is closed to me!

Glad to know the only thing I have to remove is the hard drive. I might just keep it around and store it as an additional backup. Once again, thanks for the incredibly helpful responses. :D
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TxAg
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by TxAg »

dolphinsaremammals wrote:You people shotgunning these metal devices, do you worry about ricochets?

No. It is a non issue.

I live in town so I used an 8# sledge the other day. Felt great.
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by wander »

Caduceus wrote: Is it enough for me to remove the hard drive? Once I've done that, is there anything else I have to do?
+1. That's all you need. Or you can pour coffee on the circuit board and coffee will "eat" the board after sometime.
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by supton »

I actually enjoy taking things apart (part of being an engineer I guess), so I have the tools to do so. For years I've collected the magnets from HD's for holding things on the fridge; however several years ago the magnets started getting weaker. If you have really old drives, I'd definately open them up and salvage the magnets! Anyhow, I open it, remove the discs, run the magnet it self over them, then take a sharp object and score the platter. Then maybe bend them a bit. Then toss into the metal dumpster at the transfer station. It's fun for me, I can see why others would not go to that depth.

You could just get out a drill and have at it. The HD uses a disc(s) that spin; the disc(s) should be roughly dead center. If you look you might see a screw or similar to indicate the axis which it spins on. Use an 1/8" or 1/4" drill bit and put in a series of holes.
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CABob
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by CABob »

According to a column that appears in a local newspaper Killdisk or DP-Wiper.
http://www.vcstar.com/business/columnis ... y_59509986
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by cheese_breath »

CABob wrote:According to a column that appears in a local newspaper Killdisk or DP-Wiper.
http://www.vcstar.com/business/columnis ... y_59509986
We take it you're a subscriber?
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whatusername?
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by whatusername? »

fishnskiguy wrote:Sitting on my bookshelf are the two hard drives from my last two computers. Both were hit with two rounds of OO buckshot from a range of ten feet. The NSA might be able to get some data from them but few others could.

Chris
Don't know why I haven't thought of this, but I think you just added to my weekend chore list. :D
NonnyGoGo
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Re: How to securely dispose old computer?

Post by NonnyGoGo »

Do you have paper shredding services near you? Some will destroy hard drives for a small fee. In my one experience, for about $10 and they manually drilled through the hard drive using some kind of a cranking mechanism.
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