Rent a bike in SF, ride to LA, and drop it off?

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Raybo
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Rent a bike in SF, ride to LA, and drop it off?

Post by Raybo »

I live in SF and am wondering if there would be any interest in a service that rented touring bicycles in San Francisco that could be dropped off in Los Angeles (or other cities south of SF, like San Diego or Santa Barbara). By touring bicycle, I am talking about a true touring bike (think Surly Long Haul Trucker or Trek 520) with both front and rear racks (and panniers if needed).

I estimate it would be around $400 for up to a 2 week rental. For this amount, someone would arrive in SF with whatever gear they were taking with them and probably their saddle, pedals and bike shoes. The renter would get a bicycle ready to go in a size that fits them along with tools, a spare tube or two and a patch kit. At their destination, they would take the bike to an identified bike shop and leave it there for packing and shipment back to SF. This is based on riding from SF to LA in less than 2 weeks. Note that people could stop in San Luis Obispo (1 week?), Santa Barbara (9 days?), or down to San Diego (2 weeks?). In theory, they could ride to Las Vegas, Yosemite, or anywhere else, but I think SF to LA is the main draw.

The idea is provide a quality touring bicycle for the ride from SF to LA without the hassle of bringing a bicycle or getting it back home. This saves having to get the bike into the box, getting it to the airport, paying to take it on the plane, getting from the airport to your starting point and then doing the whole dance in reverse to get it back home at the end of the tour. In some cases, the airline charges alone would be close to the above mentioned fees.

While there are plenty of bicycle rental places in SF, they cater to 1-day rentals for riding over the Golden Gate bridge. The rental places offer hybrid, cruiser, road, and electric bikes. I'm not aware of anyone offering touring bicycles ready to take on an extended tour.

Is this something you would find attractive at this kind of price?

I'm very interested in any and all thoughts.
No matter how long the hill, if you keep pedaling you'll eventually get up to the top.
PowDay
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Re: Rent a bike in SF, ride to LA, and drop it off?

Post by PowDay »

The only way I could see this working if it was a fully outfitted self-guided trip for customers who are not regular cyclists.

Charge $1,500-2,000, and have maps/campsites/hotels ready to go, and the bike being fully equipped with everything except personal items.

For someone already into bike touring, paying a bike shop to put their bike in a box doesn't seam like that big of a deal.
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Re: Rent a bike in SF, ride to LA, and drop it off?

Post by TFinator »

What PowDay said. Your main competition is the companies that do the fully supported touring aspect. There are quite a few of these in CA. On my ride just yesterday I saw one of their vans heading South past some of their riders on the Coast Highway in Solana Beach. These are expensive, though.
I wouldn't charge based on days. Reason is mostly because of various fitness levels. I did the SF to San Diego in 8 days - 2 weeks is WAY too much for me! Yes, I was fully loaded and self supported.
But, honestly, I see that there could be a market for it.
I have a couple of friends from college who bike a bit but one lives out of country. We've talked about doing the SF-SD ride, but it's a heck of an obstacle as far as having the right bike for all 3 of us goes (and getting it together for that guy who lives in South America!).
So, I see some business there.
I'd gladly test out your system once you get it going - and I'd be happy to talk more about the idea. Feel free to PM!
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Raybo
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Re: Rent a bike in SF, ride to LA, and drop it off?

Post by Raybo »

PowDay wrote:The only way I could see this working if it was a fully outfitted self-guided trip for customers who are not regular cyclists.

Charge $1,500-2,000, and have maps/campsites/hotels ready to go, and the bike being fully equipped with everything except personal items.

For someone already into bike touring, paying a bike shop to put their bike in a box doesn't seam like that big of a deal.
I am retired and intend to stay that way. I am not looking to start a career or establish some new bike touring behemoth. In fact, I'm leaning toward creating it as a non-profit and giving any extra income to World Bicycle Relief (worldbicyclerelief.org).

I have mentioned this idea to a number of bike touring people I know and they all minimize the hassle of traveling with a bicycle. I don't agree. I have a bicycle designed to pack into a suitcase and travel with as just a heavy piece of luggage. I have flown with this bicycle dozens of times. It is a hassle. Especially if I have to transport this bike box any distance on foot. It stairs are involved (think moving from one train track to another in a small train station in Europe), forget it.

I wouldn't want to put up/raise much money and would only be looking to establish a self-funding business. That is, I don't need to make much/any money on this venture, but I don't want to lose mine or someone else's money, either. Note that I wouldn't run this business. I would hope to partner with a local bike shop and use my knowledge of the route to develop useful materials and my website (http://www.biketouringtips.com) to promote it.
Last edited by Raybo on Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
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dad2000
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Re: Rent a bike in SF, ride to LA, and drop it off?

Post by dad2000 »

I think I'd consider it if you could bundle it with a couple of things:
1. Some sort of emergency roadside assistance/insurance... not for flats and such, but major mechanicals or accidents. I assume you'd be plotting the Big Sur route, and though it's been many years, my recollection is that there isn't much help out there.
2. Some sort of preferred/discounted lodging options along the way.

So I guess I'd call this partially supported.

I'm a non-radonneuring cyclist who thinks supported centuries are challenging rides, so take this with a grain of salt.
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Re: Rent a bike in SF, ride to LA, and drop it off?

Post by SkierMom »

Raybo -

I've done some bike touring. I think what you need to key-in & capitalize on are the logistics for bike touring folks. How many different size frames? Will you have tandems? I was looking for a company that rented one-way tandems for a family to ride the Natchez Trace Trailway - NADA. Also looked at flying to Ireland to rent tandems, possibly one-way - NADA. I think there is a market for what you are suggesting, as I've looked into it (although not for the SF-LA route).

What you would be selling is the convenience of not having to break down and ship your own bike + cost of shipping bike on airways ($200 RT) + hassle & expense of finding a bike box or shop in LA to ship your bike back home.

Based on your estimates, your costs might be a little on the high side. I like a previous poster's suggestion of including Hostel/campgrounds and itineraries.
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Re: Rent a bike in SF, ride to LA, and drop it off?

Post by Watty »

I estimate it would be around $400 for up to a 2 week rental.
At that price it is not likely to be appealing to someone that already owns a bike like that. For $200 each way I would think that they could ship their bike to and from California and not have to worry about what problems the rental bike might have.

Some European cars have a program where you can take delivery over at the factory in Europe, drive it there for a few weeks, then have it shipped to your home.

There might be some interest in a program where people could pick up a new bike in California then have it shipped to their homes from wherever they end up.
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Re: Rent a bike in SF, ride to LA, and drop it off?

Post by SkierMom »

Raybo:

Since my touring days were in my 20's and early 30's, I think I may have forgotten the hassle of traveling with a bike. Breaking it down, packing it, getting on the airlines. Some of my most interesting travel tales involve getting the bike box from the airport late at night into a taxi cab to the closest motel. I thought I was going to be thrown into a Chinese prison for several years for trying to jam my box into the trunk of a taxi in Beijing.

I remember being so exhausted in Chang Mai, Thailand that I just rolled my bike up to the plane on the tarmac and asked them to put it in the baggage section as-is. They looked at me funny, took the air out of my tires and loaded it on.

Now that I have a family, I was looking to fly to a destination and rent. Four bikes might be unwieldy.
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Re: Rent a bike in SF, ride to LA, and drop it off?

Post by 18B4W8 »

There is a non-profit, R2R, Ride to Recovery, that does a SF to LA ride each October over 7 days. I participated from Carmel to Cambria through Big Sur (I'm a SLO resident) one year. IMO without rider support it would be very difficult. I would agree with a LBS support package and hotels each night. Even from north to south there are some big climbs that are not for the novice rider. I'd also take into account staying more than one night in a hotel to recover.

I do agree in principle that renting a bike is much easier than packaging your own bike, paying the transportation cost, repacking, and shipping again on the backside. If I remember correctly taking a bike one way on a plane is about $200-$250, unless you tell them it is "art", then it's free 8-) I think it's a great idea but would require a more hands on approach.
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Re: Rent a bike in SF, ride to LA, and drop it off?

Post by Raybo »

Watty wrote:
I estimate it would be around $400 for up to a 2 week rental.
At that price it is not likely to be appealing to someone that already owns a bike like that. For $200 each way I would think that they could ship their bike to and from California and not have to worry about what problems the rental bike might have.


This is a good point.
There might be some interest in a program where people could pick up a new bike in California then have it shipped to their homes from wherever they end up.
This was one of the ideas I kicked around with a local bike shop owner.
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Re: Rent a bike in SF, ride to LA, and drop it off?

Post by Raybo »

18B4W8 wrote:I do agree in principle that renting a bike is much easier than packaging your own bike, paying the transportation cost, repacking, and shipping again on the backside. If I remember correctly taking a bike one way on a plane is about $200-$250, unless you tell them it is "art", then it's free 8-) I think it's a great idea but would require a more hands on approach.
I am not looking to start a business that offers supported bicycle tours and I am not looking to create a job that requires "a more hands on approach." I am just trying to take advantage of my position of living in SF and knowing a fair amount about the ride down to LA (which I've done a half-dozen times by myself) and hoping to get involved with someone else who will do most of the work for most of the money.

I can't think of anything less I want to do than have to answer phone calls from people dissatisfied by the breakfast offered at some hotel I arranged for them to stay in....
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Re: Rent a bike in SF, ride to LA, and drop it off?

Post by inbox788 »

Why start in SF and drop off in LA? Why not go the other way? You could price it differently to get the supply/demand in balance like one way rental cars. For example, $200 rental charge either way, but $200 drop off in LA (to return bike to SF), or no drop-off fee if going to SF. Heck, even give a $50-100 discount if need be if it's less than the shipping cost.

I know nothing about them, but I recently came across a Bicycle Roadside Assistance program: http://www.betterworldclub.com/bicycles ... stance.cfm
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Re: Rent a bike in SF, ride to LA, and drop it off?

Post by hicabob »

inbox788 wrote:Why start in SF and drop off in LA? Why not go the other way? You could price it differently to get the supply/demand in balance like one way rental cars. For example, $200 rental charge either way, but $200 drop off in LA (to return bike to SF), or no drop-off fee if going to SF. Heck, even give a $50-100 discount if need be if it's less than the shipping cost.

I know nothing about them, but I recently came across a Bicycle Roadside Assistance program: http://www.betterworldclub.com/bicycles ... stance.cfm

It seems almost everyone I've seen goes N to S. I've been told that's due to the strong winds that tends to blow to the South in the summer. The view would be better too since you would be ocean side.
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Re: Rent a bike in SF, ride to LA, and drop it off?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

If I wanted to do this bike trip, I would line up craigslist bikes for $400 and buy one on arrival. Ride the tour and then sell it to a bike or pawn shop for what I could get, or if I had the time, put up a craigslist ad as soon as I purchased it for half of what I paid....maybe even including the story of my trip.
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Re: Rent a bike in SF, ride to LA, and drop it off?

Post by texasdiver »

I don't think that kind of business would be worth the hassle and I think your market niche is way too narrow.

I've ridden the Pacific Coast a couple of times, most recently the summer of 2013 with my father and daughter. I saw three kids of cyclists riding along the coast.

1, Independent cycling tourists who are mostly hard-core cyclists with their own gear set up exactly like they want it. I ran into Australians and Japanese in addition to a wide variety of Americans. Many of these cyclists are on much longer tours than SF to LA. And even those who might be are most likely going to want to continue using their own bikes anyway. I'm very fussy about my bike and have tuned everything from my saddle to stem to handlbars to pedals exactly as I want them over thousands of miles and would have no interest in hopping on some other bike for a long tour no matter how fancy.

2. Riders on packaged tours. There are a variety of companies who do guided tours where everything is provided including the bikes. Not my style of riding but popular for people who might not have the confidence or desire to do their own self-supported tour. Obviously these folks will have no interest in such a service

3. Club or group rides. I ran into a couple of casual groups, mostly California cycling cubs or groups of friends who do annual rides down the coast supported by friends, wives, etc. who follow with campers and trucks and get each campground set up. Seems a fun way to ride the coast with your own support and friends. Obviously these groups aren't going to need your service because they already have their support vehicles.

I don't know what percentage of riders on that portion of the coast make up each group. But the only ones who would be interested in such as service would be the first group and among them I suspect there are a very small number who (1) are actually just riding SF to LA and skipping Oregon and Northern CA, and (2) aren't already attached to their own bike and gear. And then among those who might be interested in such a service the question would be how to actually advertise your service to such a narrow and far-flung population. It's one thing to provide a service, another thing to actually promote it to where your target audience knows about it.

I suspect if you owned a bike shop in SF and another one in LA such that you had a business address in both locations and plenty of bike boxes to ship bikes back and forth and the shop space to set the bikes up and break them down it might be something one could try out. But without the infrastructure of having a business location and shop in each location I don't see how it could work.
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Re: Rent a bike in SF, ride to LA, and drop it off?

Post by Raybo »

Jack FFR1846 wrote:If I wanted to do this bike trip, I would line up craigslist bikes for $400 and buy one on arrival. Ride the tour and then sell it to a bike or pawn shop for what I could get, or if I had the time, put up a craigslist ad as soon as I purchased it for half of what I paid....maybe even including the story of my trip.
And you would prefer this to a professionally maintained touring bicycle? It sure sounds easy. I wonder how easy it is in practice?
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Re: Rent a bike in SF, ride to LA, and drop it off?

Post by texasdiver »

hicabob wrote:
inbox788 wrote:Why start in SF and drop off in LA? Why not go the other way? You could price it differently to get the supply/demand in balance like one way rental cars. For example, $200 rental charge either way, but $200 drop off in LA (to return bike to SF), or no drop-off fee if going to SF. Heck, even give a $50-100 discount if need be if it's less than the shipping cost.

I know nothing about them, but I recently came across a Bicycle Roadside Assistance program: http://www.betterworldclub.com/bicycles ... stance.cfm

It seems almost everyone I've seen goes N to S. I've been told that's due to the strong winds that tends to blow to the South in the summer. The view would be better too since you would be ocean side.
In addition, the shoulders are often wider on the southbound (Ocean) side of the highways as the highway departments who maintain the bike lanes and shoulders know that 95% of riders are riding south.
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Re: Rent a bike in SF, ride to LA, and drop it off?

Post by Raybo »

texasdiver wrote:I don't think that kind of business would be worth the hassle and I think your market niche is way too narrow.
You make good points about the kinds of people riding the coast. I know the market niche is narrow, but given that this kind of service isn't available at present, it is hard to now if people would use it if it were. I likely fit your definition of the "hard-core" people you saw on the road. I have my bike set-up as I wish and would have to have a reason to fly somewhere and rent a touring bike versus bringing my own with me.

That said, if a "quick" bike tour was to part of a larger business trip or I was on a multi-modal vacation (flying, driving, etc), then I would consider renting a bike for a particularly spectacular ride. In fact, I did just this when my wife and I rented a tandem bicycle for a 3-day tour (her first!) in New Zealand. Bringing a bike for a 3-day ride as part of 6 week vacation would have made no sense.
And then among those who might be interested in such a service the question would be how to actually advertise your service to such a narrow and far-flung population. It's one thing to provide a service, another thing to actually promote it to where your target audience knows about it.
Actually, this is what attracted me to this idea in the first place. About a year and a half ago, I wrote an article for my website called A Guide for Bicycling from San Francisco to Los Angeles. This article is one of the most popular on my site and is downloaded 10 or more times a day. Since my website is totally dedicated to bicycle touring, it is likely that I already am attracting the kind of people who might be interested in this idea. Again, I'm not looking to create a huge business, so having a narrow, but exploitable, niche would be good enough.
I suspect if you owned a bike shop in SF and another one in LA such that you had a business address in both locations and plenty of bike boxes to ship bikes back and forth and the shop space to set the bikes up and break them down it might be something one could try out. But without the infrastructure of having a business location and shop in each location I don't see how it could work.
I have made contact with a local bike shop that does a good amount of business in touring bicycles who might be interested in working with me. The owner has contacts both with multiple bike manufacturers, as well as, bike shop owners up and down the coast. This isn't something I want run. It is more something I want to be involved with.
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Re: Rent a bike in SF, ride to LA, and drop it off?

Post by furwut »

I have heard that some of my local bike shops do day/weekly rental of high-end racing bikes. The attraction is if you are a biking enthusiast stuck in town for business this is a way for you to get your miles in. You just bring your saddle, shoes, pedals and helmut. The shop also hooks you up with local riders so you don't have to worry about getting lost so much.

P.S. - now that I think about it there may be a similar service that will rent you bikes for the GAP/C&O Canal trails between DC and Pittsburgh. That's the kind of once-in-a-lifetime thing that may appeal to a broader section than just the hard core touring cyclist.
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Re: Rent a bike in SF, ride to LA, and drop it off?

Post by stlutz »

How are you going to make sure you get your bike back at the end and that it's still going to be in decent condition w/o taco'd wheels and the like? I assume rental bikes overall are expensive for just this reason.

I've considered a west coast bike trip. For me at least, figuring out the bike transport part is straightfoward. However, I don't really want to start and finish in a major city. I'd pay you to get *me* back to where I started if I decide to end my OR->CA trip in Bodega Bay or something like that. :happy
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Re: Rent a bike in SF, ride to LA, and drop it off?

Post by Raybo »

stlutz wrote:How are you going to make sure you get your bike back at the end and that it's still going to be in decent condition w/o taco'd wheels and the like? I assume rental bikes overall are expensive for just this reason.
I've talked with some people in the local bike rental market and they rely on a credit card deposit, just like a rental car place does.
I've considered a west coast bike trip. For me at least, figuring out the bike transport part is straightfoward. However, I don't really want to start and finish in a major city. I'd pay you to get *me* back to where I started if I decide to end my OR->CA trip in Bodega Bay or something like that. :happy
You can take a bus to Santa Rosa from Bodega Bay and then one down 101 to SF.
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Re: Rent a bike in SF, ride to LA, and drop it off?

Post by WhyNotUs »

One market might be school outings. My daughter's school did a bike trip in NoCA and had to take their own bikes on the train. I would have gladly paid to rent a touring bike for that trip.
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Re: Rent a bike in SF, ride to LA, and drop it off?

Post by texasdiver »

stlutz wrote:How are you going to make sure you get your bike back at the end and that it's still going to be in decent condition w/o taco'd wheels and the like? I assume rental bikes overall are expensive for just this reason.

I've considered a west coast bike trip. For me at least, figuring out the bike transport part is straightfoward. However, I don't really want to start and finish in a major city. I'd pay you to get *me* back to where I started if I decide to end my OR->CA trip in Bodega Bay or something like that. :happy
Riding through Marin County is nice if you follow the recommended bike routes and don't try to stay on CA-1 the entire way like I did the first time I rode that route. There are good bike paths and bike lanes all the way to the Golden Gate Bridge but you need the Adventure Cycling Association maps to find them. There isn't any logistical or scenic reason to stop at Bodega Bay. The ride along Tomales Bay past all the oyster shops is very nice and then from Olema the recommended route takes you inland through rural Marin County along some very pretty roads all the way into suburban Mill Valley and Sausalito.

The most logical place to start would be Astoria unless you wanted to start in Portland and bike across to the coast. You can get incredibly cheap bus service from Portland to Astoria on the Northwest Point buses and they will take your bike: http://www.northwest-point.com/default.aspx
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Re: Rent a bike in SF, ride to LA, and drop it off?

Post by livesoft »

As way of background: I have done a lot of bike touring over the years, but not as much as Raybo. It has always been pretty easy to ship my bike on the airplane or borrow a bike from a friend. Just last month, I rented a bike for the first time in San Francisco and it was cheap.

I have to say I agree with texasdiver on this one. A little googling turns up http://www.shipbikes.com/HowMuch.aspx linked from http://www.adventurecycling.org/resourc ... ike-cases/

So as already mentioned, the folks who would do this tour probably already have a bike and any round-trip open-leg shipping would be less than $400.
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Re: Rent a bike in SF, ride to LA, and drop it off?

Post by Raybo »

I did some more research on renting a touring bike versus bringing your own and have written up my analysis in an article, which can be read here.

My conclusion is that renting would make sense for trips shorter than 2-weeks, if one-way.
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