Selling on eBay with local pickup using PayPal - Dangerous?

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d_green
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Selling on eBay with local pickup using PayPal - Dangerous?

Post by d_green »

I just sold a pair of vintage speakers on eBay for $1000. Since they were very heavy and bulky, I set the auction on local pickup and I was fortunate to find a local buyer willing to pick them up.

The payment was sent to me by PayPal (it's currently credited to my PayPal account.) I have sold 100's of items on eBay through the years and never had a problem but I have never sold any item to a buyer picking it up at my home.

As soon as I got the large payment, I realized I may have put myself at some risk as a seller. I am worried that the buyer could pick them up and yet claim to eBay that they were never picked up. Without a paper trailer - like a tracking number from a shipper (UPS, Fedex), could eBay back me up if the buyer claimed he never got them? The buyer gets PayPal verification that they paid and I can present nothing to eBay proving that the buyer picked them up. In that situation, I think the buyer gets refunded his payment, and that money is removed from my PayPal account.

In any event, the item is sold and I have to honor the payment arrangements that I allowed when I started the auction, so I arranged to have the buyer pick them up. At this point, I just need tips on how mitigate my risk.

So if anyone has experience with or ideas about these matters, here are the questions I have:

1.) Is allowing PayPal payment with local pickup problematic? Do I lose some seller protections by allowing PayPal payment in local pickup situations? Should I ever allow this in the future - can I require cash payment when I create local pickup auctions in the future?

2.) Is there some form of proof of pickup I can generate that eBay will accept? I was thinking about maybe a document that I have the buyer and myself sign and then take a picture of the buyer holding his driver's license in front of the item I am selling. Would I be able to force him to do that?

BTW, I realize the buyer has risk as well and that PayPal gives him some buyer protections. However, in this case, his risk is very low. I promised him he can do a full inspection of the speakers before he takes them. I'll have them hooked up to my receiver and he is free to listen to them as long as he wants.


Any opinions are appreciated. Thanks
Stonebr
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Re: Selling on eBay with local pickup using PayPal - Dangero

Post by Stonebr »

An old fashioned paper bill of sale with signatures from both you and the buyer would be a sufficient deterrent, I would think.
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4th and Inches
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Re: Selling on eBay with local pickup using PayPal - Dangero

Post by 4th and Inches »

^^^^what he said. You can also call PayPal customer service to ask.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Selling on eBay with local pickup using PayPal - Dangero

Post by TomatoTomahto »

Scan his driver's license. Take a cell phone video of the pickup. PayPal is problematic with pickup, but you can go to the police with video and driver's license if they attempt a chargeback.
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Postmon
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Re: Selling on eBay with local pickup using PayPal - Dangero

Post by Postmon »

I'm not sure if it's still the case, but the only thing Paypal used to accept was a signature confirmation from the carrier for items over $250. So, you were at risk for any pick-up. I'd suggest you check the the ebay website. I'm sure it's spelled out there and on the ebay discussion boards.

Other option is to refund his paypal payment and ask him to bring cash. Give him a 5% discount as incentive. It'll only cost you 2% since you'll recoup the 3% paypal fee.
tampaite
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Re: Selling on eBay with local pickup using PayPal - Dangero

Post by tampaite »

Deleting my messages on this forum
Last edited by tampaite on Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
westie
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Re: Selling on eBay with local pickup using PayPal - Dangero

Post by westie »

A simple bill of sale signed by both parties should suffice. If still nervous do the exchange at the local police station.
Postmon
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Re: Selling on eBay with local pickup using PayPal - Dangero

Post by Postmon »

Below is from the Paypal website. If you want to avoid the chance of a chargeback, I'd do what I suggested earlier. Paypal favors the buyer and I always use cash for an in-person transaction.

PayPal Seller Protection.

What are the requirements for Seller Protection?
Initial Requirements

Ship to the address on the Transaction Details page.

Seller Protection offers coverage for most PayPal transactions, as long as they follow the requirements explained in the previous sections. However, there are also some instances where Seller Protection doesn’t apply:

Items picked up locally or in person.
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Re: Selling on eBay with local pickup using PayPal - Dangero

Post by nisiprius »

I sold a bicycle for $500 on eBay with local pickup some years ago. (Checking) Oh, wait, correction, it was Craigslist. It was a slightly unusual kind of bicycle, not a road bike or mountain bike, but a semi-recumbent "comfort bike" with a seven-speed hub.

It was especially problematical--in theory--because the buyer lived on the West coast, and the pickup was made by a friend with a minivan who was vacationing--and wasn't going to be delivering the bike for a few weeks. And I don't even remember what the form of payment was.

What I do remember was that I simply wrote out a note by hand for the friend to sign and date, saying simply that a) he'd picked up the bike, b) paid, and c) he'd ridden it around the block and verified that it was in good shape.

Since there weren't any problems, I can't tell you if what I did was sufficient protection.

I believe that the risk of transactions like selling bicycles and vintage speakers etc. is not really all that high. The thieves want money. If they can't get money itself, then they want things that can be easily and quickly re-sold at a good price... and relatively portable. Vintage speakers and offbeat bicycles aren't it. Nor are there many people who just want to acquire junk without having to pay for it. Sure, people steal bicycles but doing it via a multi-step online procedure involving PayPal, many possible places where one might fear one was leaving a trail, and making a trip to pick it up doesn't seem like the best bicycle-thief business model.
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htdrag11
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Re: Selling on eBay with local pickup using PayPal - Dangero

Post by htdrag11 »

4th and Inches wrote:^^^^what he said. You can also call PayPal customer service to ask.
Just like selling a used car, I pre-printed a standard receipt with both of our signatures as artifact, including the serial number (expensive electronic).

In my case, I took cash rather than PayPal. I do use a pen to verify the bills are OK.

Have not done that for a while since my wife was wary of strangers coming to our house, so I stop doing it. What a crazy world we're living in.
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Traveller
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Re: Selling on eBay with local pickup using PayPal - Dangero

Post by Traveller »

Bill of sale clearly describing the item and price and payment method. And check drivers license / copy down number.
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midareff
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Re: Selling on eBay with local pickup using PayPal - Dangero

Post by midareff »

Stonebr wrote:An old fashioned paper bill of sale with signatures from both you and the buyer would be a sufficient deterrent, I would think.

+1... and for paranoia you could add a snap of Mr. Buyer standing next to his new speakers. I'd definitely get a scan of his drivers license so you can verify it is the buyer.
Last edited by midareff on Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Selling on eBay with local pickup using PayPal - Dangero

Post by ResearchMed »

Postmon wrote:Below is from the Paypal website. If you want to avoid the chance of a chargeback, I'd do what I suggested earlier. Paypal favors the buyer and I always use cash for an in-person transaction.

PayPal Seller Protection.

What are the requirements for Seller Protection?
Initial Requirements

Ship to the address on the Transaction Details page.

Seller Protection offers coverage for most PayPal transactions, as long as they follow the requirements explained in the previous sections. However, there are also some instances where Seller Protection doesn’t apply:

Items picked up locally or in person.
I'd be very cautious (as in "nervous, don't do it") given that the PayPal Seller Protection clearly does NOT apply for items picked up locally or in person.

It's not at all clear that having a clearly signed receipt/release/waiver, including with video of signature and photo of ID's/etc., would help, if those rules quoted are correct/applicable.

And PayPal is going to be the arbiter in any dispute, right?
Plus the Buyer might also have the charge card company on his/her side, so that's no help for you either.

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Re: Selling on eBay with local pickup using PayPal - Dangero

Post by TradingPlaces »

Stonebr wrote:An old fashioned paper bill of sale with signatures from both you and the buyer would be a sufficient deterrent, I would think.
The paper bill should state the name and the ebay username and the paypal username of both parties.
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Re: Selling on eBay with local pickup using PayPal - Dangero

Post by Postmon »

Although bill of sale or something like that might stand up in court, I don't know why everyone is suggesting that. IT WON'T WORK FOR PAYPAL :oops: . Let's get back to the OP's questions:
d_green wrote: 1.) Is allowing PayPal payment with local pickup problematic? Not necessarily, but you lose Paypal seller protection if the buyer decides to do a chargeback.Do I lose some seller protections by allowing PayPal payment in local pickup situations? No, you lose ALL of it! Should I ever allow this in the future - can I require cash payment when I create local pickup auctions in the future? Absolutely. Cash for in person pickup is the only way to go.

2.) Is there some form of proof of pickup I can generate that eBay will accept? No. I was thinking about maybe a document that I have the buyer and myself sign and then take a picture of the buyer holding his driver's license in front of the item I am selling. No, it has to be the the signature confirmation from the carrier, period. Would I be able to force him to do that? I don't think you can force him to do anything.
Like I said earlier, tell him that if he brings cash, you'll refund his Paypal payment and give him $50 off. That way your net cost is only $20 and he saves $50. Worth it for the peace of mind.
Last edited by Postmon on Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Selling on eBay with local pickup using PayPal - Dangero

Post by TradingPlaces »

Cash is King in a situation like this.
DonM17
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Re: Selling on eBay with local pickup using PayPal - Dangero

Post by DonM17 »

If I am allowing local pick up then I specify right in the ebay ad that if local pick up is chosen by the buyer then - Cash is the only form of payment accepted.
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d_green
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Re: Selling on eBay with local pickup using PayPal - Dangero

Post by d_green »

Postmon wrote:Although bill of sale or something like that might stand up in court, I don't know why everyone is suggesting that. IT WON'T WORK FOR PAYPAL :oops: . Let's get back to the OP's questions:
d_green wrote: 1.) Is allowing PayPal payment with local pickup problematic? Not necessarily, but you lose Paypal seller protection if the buyer decides to do a chargeback.Do I lose some seller protections by allowing PayPal payment in local pickup situations? No, you lose ALL of it! Should I ever allow this in the future - can I require cash payment when I create local pickup auctions in the future? Absolutely. Cash for in person pickup is the only way to go.

2.) Is there some form of proof of pickup I can generate that eBay will accept? No. I was thinking about maybe a document that I have the buyer and myself sign and then take a picture of the buyer holding his driver's license in front of the item I am selling. No, it has to be the the signature confirmation from the carrier, period. Would I be able to force him to do that? I don't think you can force him to do anything.
Like I said earlier, tell him that if he brings cash, you'll refund his Paypal payment and give him $50 off. That way your net cost is only $20 and he saves $50. Worth it for the peace of mind.
Thank you for pointing this out and giving me those suggestions. I've just been reading more about this issue on eBay forums and getting more and more nervous about it as I can find lots of examples of people being scammed in local pickup schemes. I offered the buyer $50 off if he brought cash but he said he wasn't interested. He said that PayPal (through PayPal Credit) offer no payments and no interest if paid in full in 6 months. That is a real offer - I checked. He is only interested in buying if he can take advantage of this PayPal credit offer.

I don't want to just refund him the money and cancel the sale, so I am somewhat at a loss at what to do.

Here is the interesting thing, though. I tried to create another auction in eBay that is local pickup only and in which CASH is the only payment method. eBay won't allow it. You need to offer at least one electronic payment method. You are not even allowed to say in the item description that you only will accept cash. Under those conditions, I don't know how I could ever require a buyer to pay cash on a local pickup.
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d_green
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Re: Selling on eBay with local pickup using PayPal - Dangero

Post by d_green »

DonM17 wrote:If I am allowing local pick up then I specify right in the ebay ad that if local pick up is chosen by the buyer then - Cash is the only form of payment accepted.
Really? I was reading through the eBay forums and I saw lots of posts stating that even mentioning the word "CASH" in the description will get the listing removed.
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Re: Selling on eBay with local pickup using PayPal - Dangero

Post by Postmon »

d_green wrote:I don't want to just refund him the money and cancel the sale, so I am somewhat at a loss at what to do.
As Dirty Harry said: "You gotta ask yourself one question. Do you feel lucky? Well, do ya?" :twisted:

You could cancel the sale and then you won't have to worry about a chargeback but then you run the risk of a negative feedback. What does this buyer's feedback look like? Quantity, comments, % postive? How long has he been an eBay member? You should have his name now, so google him and see if anything shady comes back. If everything checks out, it's a risk of doing business.

I gave up with eBay for local sales. Craigslist is your friend for that.
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d_green
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Re: Selling on eBay with local pickup using PayPal - Dangero

Post by d_green »

Postmon wrote:
d_green wrote:I don't want to just refund him the money and cancel the sale, so I am somewhat at a loss at what to do.
As Dirty Harry said: "You gotta ask yourself one question. Do you feel lucky? Well, do ya?" :twisted:

You could cancel the sale and then you won't have to worry about a chargeback but then you run the risk of a negative feedback. What does this buyer's feedback look like? Quantity, comments, % postive? How long has he been an eBay member? You should have his name now, so google him and see if anything shady comes back. If everything checks out, it's a risk of doing business.

I gave up with eBay for local sales. Craigslist is your friend for that.
Well, I didn't feel lucky, but I think I actually ended up getting lucky. I decided to simply refund the buyer's money and cancel the sale. I sent him a message that basically apologized and said that I just didn't feel comfortable selling locally using PayPal. I then decided to list the item on Craigslist for $950.

A few hours later my original eBay buyer contacts me at my Gmail address (he must have got it from the refunded PayPal transaction.) He asked if they were still for sale and I told him I was now listing only on Craigslist. He checked out the listing and agreed to buy for. So, in the end he'll pay less than if he bought on eBay and I'll do better because I won't have auction fees.

It seems Craigslist is the way to go for local sales.
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Re: Selling on eBay with local pickup using PayPal - Dangero

Post by denovo »

I don't mean to be parnoid, but I would think it is best for the exchange of money (cash) to be in a safe,public space with a lot of traffic. A local police as others have mentioned or maybe the mall.
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Re: Selling on eBay with local pickup using PayPal - Dangero

Post by fidobogo »

PayPal dispute-handling is greatly tilted in favor of the buyer in any case, even when not doing local pickup. Reportedly, a buyer could have a pattern of claiming that sellers shipped them rocks, and PayPal would keep refunding buyer's money, unless buyer had 3 disputes open at a time. I heard this second-hand from a PayPal rep at least a few years ago, and it's consistent with a lot of stories I've heard over the years.

I've actually recall only OK experiences with PayPal customer service myself, after over a decade, but it's certainly easy to find Kafkaesque horror stories about PayPal. Assuming the CL sale goes smoothly with the eBay buyer, the thought might occur to you to try to give eBay and/or PayPal a small cut, but I think there might be some risk that approaching eBay or PayPal about this could result in some person there closing your account inappropriately.
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