Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

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ThankYouJack
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Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by ThankYouJack »

I'm thinking about dropping cable since my family doesn't watch a lot of TV. I live about 35 miles from where most local channels are broadcast and this site says an attic mounted antenna should pick up those channels - http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=29
There are some tall pines surrounding my house, so I'm thinking about installing an outdoor antenna instead where my old satellite dish used to be. Any recommendations for antennas and are the trees or anything else likely to affect the signal? It would stink buying everything, setting it up and then realizing that I only get one or two channels.

One thing I'm not sure about, is how to connect the signal from the antenna to our tv. I know where the coaxial panel is in my house but it doesn't seem that intuitive. Is it just something I could look up online, or would I have to hire someone to help?

Also, do you have any recommendations for a DVR/home theater setup? I'm not looking for anything that big, just something that will record a few shows and allow me to play them later
astrohip
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by astrohip »

If you want a DVR that can record OTA (ie, antenna feed), look into the basic TiVo. It can record from an antenna, stores 75 hours or so of programs, and is by far the best DVR on the market. It frees you up from the cable fees. It can also handle Netflix, Hulu and Amazon/Prime, so if you decide you want to add those at any time, you can still watch them thru your TiVo.

The mechanics are:

Antenna>TiVo>TV.

Simple as that. I'd be happy to answer any questions you have, if you have an interest. And yes, I have this exact unit. I get all the major channels in Houston, via antenna.
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pshonore
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by pshonore »

Does Tivo still require a monthly "subscription"?
Boglegrappler
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by Boglegrappler »

Most TV antennas have a coaxial connector ("F" style) that you can screw a 75 ohm cable connector into. Just buy some coax (cable) and you can just connect the other end of it to the TV. You'll need to buy the cable with the connectors already installed, or learn to do it yourself with tools available at lower or home depot. Its not all that hard. If you actually have a "panel", I'm assuming you probably have a "splitter" that divides the signal so that different TV's can receive it simultaneously. If this is the case, you might decide to insert an amplifier in the line to boost the signals your antenna is delivering.

I think its unlikely that trees will have much impact on your received signal. Usually the biggest issues are distance from the transmission tower, and the terrain between your antenna and the tower. If you're behind a mountain, that's not so good.
livesoft
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by livesoft »

I live more than 40 miles from TV broadcast antennas. I put an antenna in the attic of my 2-story house. I just hung it with string from the rafters. I can stand up in my attic and walk around in it (gives one the idea of the overall height.) I have lots of trees taller than the house in my front yard blocking the line of sight from the antenna in the attic to the broadcast antenna 40+ miles away. I get great HDTV signal and also analog signal.

In my attic was already a junction/splitter for all the coax cables to the various rooms. I unscrewed the cable from the cable TV service [marked IN] more than 20 years ago and screwed in a short coax cable to my antenna in the attic. Easy peasy.
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

Digital broadcasts have to travel 75 miles vs analog only 50. I think you are going to be amazed by what you can pull in with an old fashioned chimney mounted antenna. I plugged mine in years ago with a frozen rotor, pointed twards Boston. I get 56 stations including various versions of some, like 3 different channel 2 pbs programs.
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ThankYouJack
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by ThankYouJack »

A small box like TiVo would be great, but I'm pretty sure it requires a monthly service of $15/month or $500 lifetime commitment. Something like simple.tv could be a good option too (although that requires a $150 lifetime fee - http://www.wired.com/2014/09/simple-tv/). It is neat that it doesn't need to be connected directly to your TV

I don't think there's a coax junction in my attic but will check. If there is, a setup like Livesoft's would be ideal. I have a two story house with big attic. Sounds like the trees won't be much of an issue. There are some rolling hills around but nothing major (far from mountains).
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jpsfranks
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by jpsfranks »

A used Tivo HD or 2-tuner Tivo "Premier" with lifetime service can be found for $2-300 and can tune OTA signals. A latest model "Roamio" will cost hundreds more with lifetime. For the Premier and Roamio, not all models have OTA tuners, oddly it's the more expensive ones that do not.
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by supertreat »

Go to http://tvfool.com and post on the forums to get a good recommendation for which antenna to buy and how to set it up.


I chose to build my own home theater PC using windows media player and an HDhomerun dual TV tuner. This basically gives you the functionality of DVR but will cost a bit to set up ( I think I spent approximately 500$ total but I didn't go super cheap on components). This has worked well for me over the past few years.
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fast_and_curious
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by fast_and_curious »

Like a few others, we are using a basic Tivo Roamio to receive OTA signals as well as Netflix & Hulu. We paid for the lifetime Tivo subscription, so it was I think close to $700 for the box plus lifetime service. Pretty expensive, BUT we've already saved more than that in reduced cable bills (can't eliminate the cable company completely since we still get internet from them) in the 7 months since we made the switch, and will continue to be saving more each month.

One question I have is what antennas are people using that are 30-40 miles away from the station? We tried a few different antennas available at local retailers and ended up using this one: ClearStream 2V (our stations are in both UHF and VHF bands so we need a dual band antenna).

It works okay most of the time on most of the channels, but we still occasionally get broken up video/audio - as luck would have it, usually in the most climactic part of the show we're watching! So, I'd be interested in hearing what antennas other people in the same situation are using. For us, interior attic mount works best; as there's easy access there and roof mount would be problematic for a variety of reasons.

Thanks!
youngcrv
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by youngcrv »

Last year, when the new Tivo Roamio came out I also bought the basic model (the only one that can work with OTA) and paid for a lifetime subscription (normally $499, but try the "PLSR" code to save $100). Most of our TV watching is Netflix and broadcast TV (PBS, ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX), so this has been a very good fit for us. I did hire someone to put an outdoor antenna on our roof and connect it (since my roof is too high off the ground for me to feel comfortable doing this ... or even having a high enough ladder). I believe that cost about $300. In total, about $800-900 for everything, but - given where cable bills are and what our usage of cable was - the ROI looks pretty good in my book. The toughest thing about this setup is not having certain sports, but I do have a family member's login to stream ESPN in those infrequent times I would like to watch a game that's not on the networks.
TexasMu
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by TexasMu »

I encourage you to give this a try. It seems a little intimidating but it can be as basic a setup or as complex a setup as you choose.

Here is an example of a basic setup that I use everyday and ordered everything from amazon.com

Antenna
RCA ANT751 Durable Compact Outdoor Antenna $45 on amazon plus highest rated
http://amzn.com/B0024R4B5C


DVR

Homeworx hw-150pvr $40 or so
http://amzn.com/B00I2ZBD1U
just add a usb hard drive and you are good to go $50 or so from walmart , amazon .. your choice

***note : this is comparable to a vcr (nothing as slick as a TIVO but definitely will get the job done + NO MONTHLY FEES ***

Go for it !!! :sharebeer
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ThankYouJack
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by ThankYouJack »

TexasMu wrote:I encourage you to give this a try. It seems a little intimidating but it can be as basic a setup or as complex a setup as you choose.

Here is an example of a basic setup that I use everyday and ordered everything from amazon.com

Antenna
RCA ANT751 Durable Compact Outdoor Antenna $45 on amazon plus highest rated
http://amzn.com/B0024R4B5C


DVR

Homeworx hw-150pvr $40 or so
http://amzn.com/B00I2ZBD1U
just add a usb hard drive and you are good to go $50 or so from walmart , amazon .. your choice

***note : this is comparable to a vcr (nothing as slick as a TIVO but definitely will get the job done + NO MONTHLY FEES ***

Go for it !!! :sharebeer

I was looking at that antenna. I believe this is the same one at Walmart - http://www.walmart.com/ip/RCA-Suburban- ... t/10828410

Just in case it doesn't work out, does anyone know if you buy online from Walmart.com can you return in store, or do you need to pay for return shipping?

The homework box seems great. My only concern would be something like this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfJxc1r7t4A Is that due to the input signal or homeworx recording device? How much space is need to record 1 hour of TV?
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22twain
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by 22twain »

ThankYouJack wrote:How much space is need to record 1 hour of TV?
Assuming the box simply saves the data stream directly off the air, without transcoding it to a different format, figure somewhere between 5 and 6 GB per hour for a high-definition channel. It varies between different channels, depending on the bit rate the station allocates to that channel. Most stations "steal" some bits from their HD channel, to allocate to one or more standard-definition subchannels that carry different programming.
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by TexasMu »

The homework box seems great. My only concern would be something like this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfJxc1r7t4A Is that due to the input signal or homeworx recording device? How much space is need to record 1 hour of TV?
Pixelation does occur during the recordings sometimes. If the station is kind of weak the Homeworx does have a problem with the recordings.

I have high speed internet so if I miss something due to the Homeworx , I watch it via the web.

If you want excellent quality reception and very reliable DVR , the pay per month providers have that nailed down.
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SorenK
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by SorenK »

If you like DIY projects, try this:
http://lifehacker.com/5138746/build-you ... tv-antenna

I built something similar, and for the last couple years I have just rested this homemade antenna where the old dish network dish is located on the side of my house. The advantage of the is all the cable was right there. I also purchased the tivo I wanted with lifetime service off of ebay, and has worked very well for me.

So my advise is to try something cheap in the attic and see if you get the channels you expect, and if that doesn't work try buying a fancier roof antenna.
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by dbCooperAir »

ThankYouJack wrote: Also, do you have any recommendations for a DVR/home theater setup? I'm not looking for anything that big, just something that will record a few shows and allow me to play them later
We have been using Media Center that came with Windows 7, I think its still part of 8 but you should check if you decide to go that route. We have a dedicated computer for the TV and its primary role is a DVR for OTA, works great. Been using this setup for 4-5 years I think now. It also handles Netflix and some Web surfing with a wireless keyboard. The trick is to turn off the auto updates and update it manually ever so often, that's the only thing I had to putz with. We had a 50 so DVD's that are loaded on the DVR along with the family movies.

Its an older Dell with an I3, that way more than enough for DVR work + OTA 4 tuners. After you buy the computer, remote and tuner(s) its free after that.

I have not kept up on it much but my biggest requirement for a DVR is named based recording, that kept it to Tivo, Windows Media Center or a Linux solution (Myth TV?). As much as it pains me to admit Windows Media Center works very well.
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ThankYouJack
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by ThankYouJack »

Well, I was digging around my house and realized the set up should be much easier than I expected. My builder used cheap subs, so even turning on a light can be confusing at times :)

dbCooperAir wrote:
ThankYouJack wrote: Also, do you have any recommendations for a DVR/home theater setup? I'm not looking for anything that big, just something that will record a few shows and allow me to play them later
We have been using Media Center that came with Windows 7, I think its still part of 8 but you should check if you decide to go that route. We have a dedicated computer for the TV and its primary role is a DVR for OTA, works great. Been using this setup for 4-5 years I think now. It also handles Netflix and some Web surfing with a wireless keyboard. The trick is to turn off the auto updates and update it manually ever so often, that's the only thing I had to putz with. We had a 50 so DVD's that are loaded on the DVR along with the family movies.

Its an older Dell with an I3, that way more than enough for DVR work + OTA 4 tuners. After you buy the computer, remote and tuner(s) its free after that.

I have not kept up on it much but my biggest requirement for a DVR is named based recording, that kept it to Tivo, Windows Media Center or a Linux solution (Myth TV?). As much as it pains me to admit Windows Media Center works very well.
A long time ago I cut the cord (for the first time) and I bought a $200 Nettop computer that ran Windows and used it to stream content. It had a wireless mouse and keyboard, but I used an Air Mouse app so I could control it from my iPhone. People thought it was cool that I was controlling TV from my phone -- it was cutting edge at the time :). I liked it because since it had a full OS so I could run Hulu off of it without paying for the premium service ( I would have had to with Roku or others). Now I have Chromecast which I use to stream content from my chromebook and iPhone. If I didn't use that, I'd probably go with a setup like yours. But the only thing I'll really need is to record TV, where the Homeworx system should do the trick.
Last edited by ThankYouJack on Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
incowtown
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by incowtown »

I use an indoor antenna and the old 320G version of

Magnavox MDR557H/F7 1Terabyte Hard Disc Drive Digital Video Disc Recorder
by Magnavox
Link: http://amzn.com/B00JQOQCD0

I like it. It works like the old VHS recorders - you set it to record by day/time.
HoosierJim
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by HoosierJim »

Haven't had time to try this but this - TabloTV - dvr that works with OTA.
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by OpenRoad »

We compared what we were dvr'ing while on cable to what was available on Hulu. 90 percent was available on Hulu so we never even bothered with an antenna/dvr. Saved us a bunch of money by not messing with it. The only things we missed out on we're a few shows on CBS and some cable shows. We watched on the web for a bit and ultimately just lost interest.

Note: we were not a heavy tv watching family to begin with.
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ThankYouJack
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by ThankYouJack »

I just chatted with antennasdirect.com and they recommended this antenna - https://www.antennasdirect.com/store/DB ... tenna.html

It's a bit beefier than I want to make sure the stations 35 miles away are clear. I figure total, plus the mount, coaxial cables and pvr will be about $200. Not too bad.


I've used Hulu in the past, but they seem to be adding more and more commercials. Plus, the content I usually watch is not on hulu -- PBS shows, sports, specials, news.
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by OpenRoad »

ThankYouJack wrote: I've used Hulu in the past, but they seem to be adding more and more commercials. Plus, the content I usually watch is not on hulu -- PBS shows, sports, specials, news.
Yep, Hulu definitely has added more commercials - especially for the more popular shows. We don't find it annoying yet, but it has increased.
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ThankYouJack
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by ThankYouJack »

Here's an update with my plan:

I picked up the DB4e antenna from Antennas Direct. They price matched with Amazon so total with a VHF adapter was ~$90 shipped. They have a 90 day money back return policy and the customer service has been great. I also picked up some coax cables and couplers from monoprice for $22 shipped.

With a heavy duty antenna, my plan now is to mount/hang it in my attic space off of one room upstairs. I'm going to convert the phone jack to a coax plate and then run it through the room to the main coax plate that is already connected. In my coax panel, I'll connect that coax line from upstairs to the line in my main living room area.

Assuming the signal looks good, I'll pick up the Homeworx PVR ($35) and probably a 64gb-128gb flash drive ($20 or use on of my external hard drives - $0).

So for the total, I'm looking at about $150. I'm hoping the signal is HD but not a big deal if not. I figure it'll save me about $30 - $40 / month
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by 4nursebee »

I do not know about DVR setup.
I used antenna web to figure out what I could get and what antenna to use. We bought the antenna from Radio Shack, installed it ourselves. It is about 20 feet off the ground, about 100 feet away we have some tall trees. Great local channels, including from maybe 90 miles away.
I'm surprised many do not do this, especially if they use the web for tv at times.

http://www.antennaweb.org/
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raymclean
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by raymclean »

Check out Channel Master. We've used one and like it. http://www.cnet.com/products/channel-master-cm-7000pal/
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22twain
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by 22twain »

ThankYouJack wrote:I'm hoping the signal is HD
NBC, ABC, CBS, and FOX are almost certainly HD. They usually have one or more SD subchannels. For example, my local CBS station has HD on its main subchannel that carries national CBS programming and local news etc., and an SD subchannel that carries "Me TV" which shows mainly old TV shows from the 1960s and '70s.

PBS usually has HD on its main subchannel, and a couple of SD subchannels.

Over-the-air HD channels often have better picture quality than the same channels on cable or satellite.
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ThankYouJack
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by ThankYouJack »

raymclean wrote:Check out Channel Master. We've used one and like it. http://www.cnet.com/products/channel-master-cm-7000pal/
That looks great, although the price is a lot more than the Homeworx ($35 + a hard drive). I'll still need to confirm that the homeworx will be decent enough for what I'm looking to do, but it gets good reviews on Amazon. If not, it seems like I'll be spending a few hundred and will likely go with the ChannelMaster or Lifetime subscription to tivo or something else. I don't watch a whole lot of TV, so don't need anything fancy.
22twain wrote:
ThankYouJack wrote:I'm hoping the signal is HD
NBC, ABC, CBS, and FOX are almost certainly HD. They usually have one or more SD subchannels. For example, my local CBS station has HD on its main subchannel that carries national CBS programming and local news etc., and an SD subchannel that carries "Me TV" which shows mainly old TV shows from the 1960s and '70s.

PBS usually has HD on its main subchannel, and a couple of SD subchannels.

Over-the-air HD channels often have better picture quality than the same channels on cable or satellite.
Thanks for the info. Having HD, may make me want to get a newer, bigger TV :)

I may consider setting up two TVs. If I split the feed, is that likely to create any sort of noticeable difference?
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danwhite77
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by danwhite77 »

Another vote here for AntennasDirect. We've been using their antennas for five years now and they work extremely well. The DB4e linked above would almost certainly do the trick. We have an old DB2 in our attic and we're about 15 miles away from most signals and we never have signal problems.

If you want ultra long range, as I recall from my research several years ago, the DB8e seemed to have the best results:

https://www.antennasdirect.com/store/DB ... tenna.html
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by fast_and_curious »

OpenRoad wrote:Here's an update with my plan:

I picked up the DB4e antenna from Antennas Direct. They price matched with Amazon so total with a VHF adapter was ~$90 shipped. They have a 90 day money back return policy and the customer service has been great. I also picked up some coax cables and couplers from monoprice for $22 shipped.
Just a note about the DB4e (though maybe too late!) -- it appears from the website to be UHF only. Which may be fine, depending what channels you need to pick up and where you live. I know for me (Raleigh-Durham, NC area), our local ABC affiliate is in the VHF band. So, without VHF capability on our antenna, we would be unable to watch ABC.
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danwhite77
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by danwhite77 »

slin wrote:
OpenRoad wrote:Here's an update with my plan:

I picked up the DB4e antenna from Antennas Direct. They price matched with Amazon so total with a VHF adapter was ~$90 shipped. They have a 90 day money back return policy and the customer service has been great. I also picked up some coax cables and couplers from monoprice for $22 shipped.
Just a note about the DB4e (though maybe too late!) -- it appears from the website to be UHF only. Which may be fine, depending what channels you need to pick up and where you live. I know for me (Raleigh-Durham, NC area), our local ABC affiliate is in the VHF band. So, without VHF capability on our antenna, we would be unable to watch ABC.
Sometimes channels are "re-mapped" to avoid this problem. For example, in our area the CBS affiliate was VHF station 2, but they remapped it to UHF 12 (I believe - or something higher) which still appears as channel 2 on our set. So basically, if you research a specific channel that you're missing (if you're missing any), that channel may be available somewhere else in the UHF band.
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ThankYouJack
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by ThankYouJack »

slin wrote:
OpenRoad wrote:Here's an update with my plan:

I picked up the DB4e antenna from Antennas Direct. They price matched with Amazon so total with a VHF adapter was ~$90 shipped. They have a 90 day money back return policy and the customer service has been great. I also picked up some coax cables and couplers from monoprice for $22 shipped.
Just a note about the DB4e (though maybe too late!) -- it appears from the website to be UHF only. Which may be fine, depending what channels you need to pick up and where you live. I know for me (Raleigh-Durham, NC area), our local ABC affiliate is in the VHF band. So, without VHF capability on our antenna, we would be unable to watch ABC.
That's a good point and the guy at Antennas Direct mentioned that. He recommended a VHF adapter with the antenna -- which was only $16, so I picked it up
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by oxothuk »

slin wrote:Just a note about the DB4e (though maybe too late!) -- it appears from the website to be UHF only.
IIRC, antennas like the DB4e have a reasonable amount of gain in the high VHF band (7-13) even though they aren't optimized for those frequencies. Virtually all digital stations broadcast either in the UHF or high-VHF bands. A few stations tried the low-VHF band prior to the transition in 2009 but gave it up because of performance issues.

So you will probably be OK with the DB4e.
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dbCooperAir
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by dbCooperAir »

raymclean wrote:Check out Channel Master. We've used one and like it. http://www.cnet.com/products/channel-master-cm-7000pal/

I had one of these when they first came out, it was one buggy piece of hardware/software. We used it for a few years and to the point where they had it working well. They used to be made by the folks from Dish if I recall.

In the end I decided I could not live without name based recording and a decent guide is a plus as well.
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22twain
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by 22twain »

ThankYouJack wrote:I may consider setting up two TVs. If I split the feed, is that likely to create any sort of noticeable difference?
If your signals are strong, you can probably split the cable once or twice without any problem. If you're near the borderline in signal strength, splitting may "push you over the digital cliff" and cause the picture to break up. In that case, add a "pre-amp": a low-noise amplifier that mounts on the pole near the antenna and gets its power via the antenna cable from a power injector located indoors. You probably wouldn't need a very strong one if all you need to do is allow splitting.
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ThankYouJack
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by ThankYouJack »

Well, I got the DB4e antenna and hooked it up. I've been doing a lot of trial and error. The good news is the picture quality is great (HD) and I get a lot of channels. The bad news is that the feed gets choppy every so often -- which gets annoying especially when watching sports / music shows. I'm going to contact antennasdirect to see if they have any recommendations and may return it.

If I mount it on my house, is it ok to attach the mount directly to the top of the roof? I'm not sure about putting bolts directly through the roof so I may attach it to the side of the house instead.
TexasMu
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by TexasMu »

If you could put a pole in concrete and run it up the side of the house would be best.

Temporarily , I would just mount it on the side of the house to see if you get better reception.

You might need an antennae amplifier to increase signal strength on the weak channels <--- try this first. $15 at RadioShack
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kenyan
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by kenyan »

dbCooperAir wrote:
raymclean wrote:Check out Channel Master. We've used one and like it. http://www.cnet.com/products/channel-master-cm-7000pal/

I had one of these when they first came out, it was one buggy piece of hardware/software. We used it for a few years and to the point where they had it working well. They used to be made by the folks from Dish if I recall.

In the end I decided I could not live without name based recording and a decent guide is a plus as well.
We just cut the cord (there's a thread about it actually), and elected for the Channel Master (Black Friday sale for $175). Did not want to pay the fees of the Tivo. I did also try out TabloTV, but the problems with buffering were too acute, and we returned it. So far, so good with Channel Master, except for an issue setting up our Wi-fi. Found a workaround for that. Recordings do lack episode names/descriptions.

For our antenna, we're about 30 miles from the broadcast towers in a major metropolitan area. We got a Mohu Leaf 50. Picked up about 160 channels, with just over half of them being foreign language. The networks are in crystal clear HD, with the exception being that FOX has artifacts at times. Took quite a bit of fiddling to get them all at the same time. FOX reception improved significantly when I hooked up the amplifier to the Leaf (had it disconnected due to buzzing issues with the power adapter).
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astrohip
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by astrohip »

kenyan wrote:We just cut the cord (there's a thread about it actually), and elected for the Channel Master (Black Friday sale for $175). Did not want to pay the fees of the Tivo. <snip> Recordings do lack episode names/descriptions.
That's one of the key decisions you have to make. If you want the ability to record a series by simply saying "record The Good Wife", then you need a TiVo type product that will record that specific show, even if the time changes (due to scheduling conflicts or whatever). Or if you only want to record certain episodes.

Otherwise Channel Master type products will work.

I personally watch a fair amount of TV, and really like the ability to be very specific and granular in my recording settings. But YMMV.
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Independent
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by Independent »

I bought a Channel Master DVR (CM-7000PAL) for cable-free TV some years ago. At the time, reviews said that it was a TiVo box without the subscription. I think it's great. On this version, the "your recordings" screen shows the name of the program.
dansmail26
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by dansmail26 »

If you go to this website http://www.antennaweb.org/Address.aspx it will tell you just what stations you can receive, what direction they are at and exactly what type of antenna you will need.
Seattlenative
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by Seattlenative »

We had a Channel Master 4228-HD installed on the side of our roof earlier this year. Unfortunately, the Seattle metro area has major problems in terms of getting stable digital TV reception without breakups, macroblocking, pixillation or signal loss:

1. Hills, hills and more hills;
2. Trees, trees and more trees;
3. 14 different television transmitters, situated at five different locations in five different directions from our home (six directions if you count some stations like MeTV which are transmitted from a location further north from Seattle).

Our actual location is about 10 miles from the main Seattle transmitter stations. Our 4228HD antenna is pointed towards the two main Seattle TV transmitter locations. However, there are some 200-foot-high Douglas fir trees smack in the middle of that direction. Most of the time reception from those stations - ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, The CW, a local station called "Joe TV" which includes an "Antenna TV" subchannel, and a Fox repeater - is good. However, a second PBS station from Tacoma is difficult to pull in from the Tacoma transmitter. They installed a translator station on the same tower as The CW and Joe TV. However, the translator suffers from pathetically low power output, 1,000 watts compared with 1,000,000 watts for Joe TV. Reception on that PBS translator isn't 100% reliable even using this very high-gain rooftop antenna. During windstorms, those Douglas firs create their own interference with all of the Seattle stations.

We are also 10 miles in a sideways direction from three other transmitters (one of which is ION). My wife loves watching ION's "marathons" of certain series, but reception can get annoyingly spotty because the antenna's angle is off-side. We are gonna try an antenna switcher and connect a Silver Sensor indoor antenna pointed in the correct direction, and see if ION reception can be acceptable.

The 4228-HD is billed as Channel Master's top of the line "ExtremeTenna" and I think it is pretty good. Unfortunately as I've mentioned, in some locations digital TV reception is great, in some places it's awful, and in locations like ours digital TV reception is fairly good but not ideal. The Seattle area is more difficult for TV reception than most areas of the USA, for reasons I've listed above - but we love not having a cable or satellite TV bill.

I'll be interested to hear about your experience with the Antennas Direct product.
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ThankYouJack
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by ThankYouJack »

Seattlenative wrote:We had a Channel Master 4228-HD installed on the side of our roof earlier this year. Unfortunately, the Seattle metro area has major problems in terms of getting stable digital TV reception without breakups, macroblocking, pixillation or signal loss:

1. Hills, hills and more hills;
2. Trees, trees and more trees;
3. 14 different television transmitters, situated at five different locations in five different directions from our home (six directions if you count some stations like MeTV which are transmitted from a location further north from Seattle).

Our actual location is about 10 miles from the main Seattle transmitter stations. Our 4228HD antenna is pointed towards the two main Seattle TV transmitter locations. However, there are some 200-foot-high Douglas fir trees smack in the middle of that direction. Most of the time reception from those stations - ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, The CW, a local station called "Joe TV" which includes an "Antenna TV" subchannel, and a Fox repeater - is good. However, a second PBS station from Tacoma is difficult to pull in from the Tacoma transmitter. They installed a translator station on the same tower as The CW and Joe TV. However, the translator suffers from pathetically low power output, 1,000 watts compared with 1,000,000 watts for Joe TV. Reception on that PBS translator isn't 100% reliable even using this very high-gain rooftop antenna. During windstorms, those Douglas firs create their own interference with all of the Seattle stations.

We are also 10 miles in a sideways direction from three other transmitters (one of which is ION). My wife loves watching ION's "marathons" of certain series, but reception can get annoyingly spotty because the antenna's angle is off-side. We are gonna try an antenna switcher and connect a Silver Sensor indoor antenna pointed in the correct direction, and see if ION reception can be acceptable.

The 4228-HD is billed as Channel Master's top of the line "ExtremeTenna" and I think it is pretty good. Unfortunately as I've mentioned, in some locations digital TV reception is great, in some places it's awful, and in locations like ours digital TV reception is fairly good but not ideal. The Seattle area is more difficult for TV reception than most areas of the USA, for reasons I've listed above - but we love not having a cable or satellite TV bill.

I'll be interested to hear about your experience with the Antennas Direct product.
I still haven't been thrilled with the reception so I'm going to return it or give it away. It may work better on top of my roof, but I don't feel comfortable going up on my roof to install it and I don't think it's worth hiring someone to do it, especially if the reception is still subpar.

Right now I'm only paying an extra $9 / month for cable + dvr. My deal ends in a few months but I may stop cable then unless they offer me another deal. I watch more tv during the winter / football / basketball season.
Seattlenative
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by Seattlenative »

ThankYouJack wrote: I still haven't been thrilled with the reception so I'm going to return it or give it away. It may work better on top of my roof, but I don't feel comfortable going up on my roof to install it and I don't think it's worth hiring someone to do it, especially if the reception is still subpar......
Right now I'm only paying an extra $9 / month for cable + dvr. My deal ends in a few months but I may stop cable then unless they offer me another deal. I watch more tv during the winter / football / basketball season.
When you say "I'm only paying an extra $9/month for cable + dvr", does this mean you already obtain your Internet service and/or digital voice service from a cable company? Once that promotional deal expires, if you can somehow live without sports channels like ESPN/Root Sports etc., consider downgrading your video to the cheapest level of service, commonly sold by the cable companies as "Limited Basic" or "Broadcast Basic". It is the only level of cable TV service which the FCC allows local governments (franchise authorities) to impose rate regulations on, and it usually costs around $20 to $25 per month. The low-cost "Limited Basic/Broadcast Basic" will give you almost all of your local broadcast TV channels, plus what is called PEG ("public access - educational - government" programming such as C-SPAN), but other than giving you one or two token cable networks, you won't really get what most folks consider "cable" content. Some cablecos may offer you a bundle of this level of video service with your Internet or VOIP quasi-phone at a deep discount just to keep your business.

I have to admit that although receiving an HD picture through uncompressed OTA broadcasts for free is pretty neat, the reception problems we have encountered at our house - with a roof-mounted "top of the line" outdoor antenna - remind me that the U.S. ATSC digital TV system is more difficult for reception than the decades-old NTSC analog system which it replaced. Ultimately, we do receive 98% reliable reception on our "major league" television stations and their subchannels: KOMO, KING, KIRO, KCTS, KSTW, KCPQ, KONG, KTBW, KZJO, KFFV and KUNS: eleven transmitters with a total of 28 channels. These stations include ABC, NBC, CBS, The CW, Fox, and one of our region's two PBS affiliates. We also receive somewhat inconsistent reception on KBTC, KWPX, KUSE-LD and KWBF: four transmitters with a total of 16 channels. Free is good.... even if it isn't 100% perfect.

One more point though: if you have some friends or neighbors who have rooftop antennas installed and in use, ask them about their experience. If your house is located in an area with fewer trees and hills than at my house, your results may be better.
Topic Author
ThankYouJack
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by ThankYouJack »

Seattlenative wrote:
ThankYouJack wrote: I still haven't been thrilled with the reception so I'm going to return it or give it away. It may work better on top of my roof, but I don't feel comfortable going up on my roof to install it and I don't think it's worth hiring someone to do it, especially if the reception is still subpar......
Right now I'm only paying an extra $9 / month for cable + dvr. My deal ends in a few months but I may stop cable then unless they offer me another deal. I watch more tv during the winter / football / basketball season.
When you say "I'm only paying an extra $9/month for cable + dvr", does this mean you already obtain your Internet service and/or digital voice service from a cable company?
Yes, I currently have AT&T U-verse. I currently pay $40 for internet and $9 for U-200 (or U-family) which include DVR. When the promo runs out, I'll see if there's another promo, if not I'll drop TV all together. Then next football season, I'll switch to Time Warner and get their new customer promo offer if AT&T isn't willing to match it. It somewhat surprises me that cablecos are willing to give more deals for customer acquisition, compared to customer retention. I guess most customers aren't willing to switch cable providers like I am.
CherylHall
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by CherylHall »

Hello- I cancelled Dish and I am glad I did it. I got a ChannelMaster and a 2TB drive to record and it all works perfectly. Love the online program guide. Also got an a Mohu antenna and that works perfectly as well. I live about 7 miles from most of the towers. Hope this helps
Seattlenative
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by Seattlenative »

ThankYouJack wrote: Yes, I currently have AT&T U-verse. I currently pay $40 for internet and $9 for U-200 (or U-family) which include DVR. When the promo runs out, I'll see if there's another promo, if not I'll drop TV all together. Then next football season, I'll switch to Time Warner and get their new customer promo offer if AT&T isn't willing to match it. It somewhat surprises me that cablecos are willing to give more deals for customer acquisition, compared to customer retention. I guess most customers aren't willing to switch cable providers like I am.

There are several DVRs designed for use with over-the-air television. OTA digital TV broadcasts from most channels contain PSIP and EPG information similar to those on cable or satellite.

If I were you, I would make one more attempt to see if you can find a "sweet spot" for good ATSC antenna reception at your home. Most ATSC TV tuners have a signal-strength feature, though you may have to hunt for it inside the TV's control settings. You may have to check your TV's user manual online to find this. You can use a signal-strength meter, or a signal-quality meter, to find the location in your attic or just outside your house for the best overall reception. Keep in mind you may not have as many trees or hills in the directions of your local TV stations as we have at our particular Seattle area location.
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by GloballyYours »

I use a simple Flatwave indoor antenna in a window about 16 feet off the ground. I have a reasonably clear view to the transmitting towers, but there are some trees between us.

To record the shows I use this $40 device with a 1 Tb hard drive attached via USB to store the shows. http://www.amazon.com/Mediasonic-HW-150 ... B00I2ZBD1U

The interface is not that great, IMHO, but it works reliably if you understand it. It's a bit geeky, IMHO. But, there are no monthly fees once you pay for the antenna, Mediasonic box, a few cables, and the hard drive.

I also have Netflix steaming and I get one disk at a time. There are many great shows available only on disk and not on streaming. It's will worth the approximately $100 a year for the disks. I simply cannot get myself to pay the cable bills that I see others paying. For me, Netflix (streaming and disk) plus the OTA setup described above do a great job for the money.
Seattlenative
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by Seattlenative »

I went to our local Fry's superstore looking for some electronic accessories today. I noticed not one but TWO displays demonstrating in real life how a customer can obtain FREE over-the-air HD television reception using an antenna. These displays were in different areas of the store, the antennas were connected to a low-end generic-brand LED display, and NO amplifier was in use. One television was connected to an Antennas Direct Clearstream C1 - the original UHF-only model which Fry's is selling for almost one-half the original retail price, the second television was connected to a Mohu Leaf. Mind you, these antenna demonstrations were INSIDE the store, and nowhere near a window. The Mohu Leaf was taped onto a fixture, the Clearstream C1 was placed on a 15-foot mast but again - this was indoors within the windowless store interior, not near windows. The Fry's superstore does have an 80-foot high roof.

Checking the Fry's street address with the signal information on TV Fool, the stations do have good signal strength but some of them are "1-Edge" signals which are more problematic than LOS (line of sight) signals. Here's what they received and the distance of the transmitters - I checked signal strength and received indoors these stations showed up as "Good" or "Normal", not "Strong" but as such very much viewable without breakups:

KOMO 4.1 - ABC, broadcasting on UHF 38: 11.8 miles away, Line of Sight, 63.6 db strength (very strong per TV Fool)
KING 5.1 - NBC, broadcasting on UHF 48: 11.8 miles away, Line of Sight, 46.2 db strength (not quite as strong as KOMO, the Mohu Leaf occasionally dropped this station from "Normal" to "Bad" signal but nonetheless maintained a picture)
KIRO 7.1 - CBS, broadcasting on UHF 39: 12.0 miles away, Line of Sight, 65.8 db strength (very strong)
KONG 16.1 - independent, broadcasting on UHF 31: 11.8 miles away, 1-Edge diffraction, 45.8 db strength per TV Fool
KZJO 22.1 - independent "Joe TV", broadcasting on UHF 25: 9.7 miles away, 1-Edge diffraction, 49.1 signal strength per TV Fool
KUNS 51.1 and 51.2 - Univision and Mundo Fox - broadcasting on UHF 50: 11.8 miles away, Line of Sight 65.1 db strength

Frys had pre-set the channels on their TVs to only display these stations, so I can't vouch for the VHF-high stations KCTS, KSTW or KCPQ or other stations. My point here is that even though TV Fool shows the above-listed channels as very strong at Fry's, these antennas were able to pick up solid reception in a far-from-ideal store environment.

Anyone considering going OTA should go to tvfool.com, type in their address AT GROUND LEVEL, and see what local stations are shown as being strong as Line-of-Sight or 1-Edge reception transmitters. If you like, after running a TV Fool analysis at ground level, if you are planning to use an outdoor antenna beside or above your roof or if you will use the antenna adjacent to a window from a second-story window OR from a high-rise condo or apartment, and then check the numbers. Of course as I mentioned, if there are trees, hills or nearby buildings in the direction of your local stations, this isn't always apparent from TV Fool. Also if you are at ground level, reception sometimes can briefly break up if a car drives by or even if a pedestrian walks in front of the reception direction.

In my experience, if you use a typical indoor antenna placed near a window, you can easily get reception on stations with signal strength at 30 dB or higher. From my observations at Fry's, the Clearstream C1 has a bit more gain, but one drawback to the C1 is that it is UHF-only though you can buy a newer model, C1-V, which does receive High-VHF.

So give it a try with a low-cost indoor antenna like a Radio Shack "Budget TV Antenna", a Winegard Flatwave, a Solid Signal HD-Blade, or a Mohu Leaf, and see how it goes. You may be very pleased. Free television is a great thing!
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kenyan
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Re: Outdoor HDTV Antenna and DVR Setup

Post by kenyan »

Our Mohu Leaf was giving us issues, particularly when rainy weather entered the area. Fine for UHF stations, not for VHF stations. I bit the bullet and bought an outdoor RCA ANT751 antenna to mount on our roof. I've had it up for a few days now, and everything has been flawless (including in the current rainy weather).
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