Buying a lasting vehicle

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Post Reply
Topic Author
ignite
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:52 am

Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by ignite »

Hello,

I am going to be needing a car here soon due to accepting a new job. My current job provides me with a company car so I won't have a trade in. I have 20k saved up and I planned on using some of that to go toward a car. I plan on buying a new car and keeping it for as long as possible. I am open to buying used but I don't want to buy anything with a questionable history.

I am looking at cars in the 15k to 20k price range. I can pay cash for the car and I know that it is recommended on here. Should I pay cash for a car, leaving 1 or 2k in my savings or should I finance the car? Also should I trust buying a used car that will last me for under 10K?

Thanks
Lafder
Posts: 4127
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:56 pm
Location: East of the Rio Grande

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by Lafder »

Not everyone agrees about new or used.

Under 20k I would see what I could get in a new Toyota Corolla,Honda Fit, Honda Civic, Subaru Impreza, Hyundai Elantra. There may also be Scions at the Toyota dealership to consider. Mazda and Nissan have good reps, but Toyota, Subaru, Honda are my personal experiences.

While at the dealership, after checking out new, I would see what they had used in the same price range to try more expensive to buy new models that have gone down due to being used.

These cars tend to retain value, so it may end up feeling you are getting a more bang for your buck buying brand new than for the slight discount of used. 2014 models may be brand new and discounted now.

A place like Carmax is easy to shop in a price range and you can buy a warranty from them for extra reassurance.

I would try to just buy cash, but with low interest rates it is tempting to finance and keep your cash.

To save time, you can simply look at and sit in the cars the first time around and narrow it down based on comfort /fit/appearance. Then return to only drive your favorites. Otherwise it can be brain scrambling to try too many cars and keep them all straight.

lafder
Traveler
Posts: 848
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:07 pm

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by Traveler »

This summer I traded in my 12 year old 200K mile Honda Accord for a new Nissan Maxima. I thought I'd get a 2-3 year old car in the $15-20K range but when I started looking, the new car for a bit more seemed like a better deal. I found that the late model used cars were almost as expensive as brand new and the new ones had a better warranty and no history. Right now you might look at new 2014 models that just haven't sold yet. You won't have as many choices in color, trim packages, etc, but you might get a good deal on something the dealership is wanting to get rid of. Good luck!
drawpoker
Posts: 2809
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 6:33 pm
Location: Delmarva

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by drawpoker »

If you want a "lasting" vehicle you want to focus on the ones with the very best reliability/very least repair/ records.

Whether you are buying new or used, consult Consumer Reports auto issues for the best source of data on which cars hold up best.

That is how I have always bought my cars over the past 40 years and I have never been disappointed. :D
Topic Author
ignite
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:52 am

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by ignite »

Thanks guys,

I'm definitely only considering a honda, toyota, subaru, or nissan. Those are the brands that i trust the most. I'm going to try to look for a good deal for a used car but I'm not going to hesitate to buy new since I want this one to last a long time.
woodyguthrie
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:17 pm

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by woodyguthrie »

A used Prius coming off lease with under 30K miles can easily be found for less than $20K. If I was in the market for a new vehicle, that is what I would buy.
Leesbro63
Posts: 10640
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:36 pm

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by Leesbro63 »

Camry, Corolla or maybe Prius
jlawrence01
Posts: 1908
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:34 am
Location: Southern AZ

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by jlawrence01 »

If you are going to buy a small car, buy new as you will generally get the best deal. However, used small cars MIGHT start to get cheaper now that gas prices have moderated.
User avatar
kenyan
Posts: 3015
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:16 pm

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by kenyan »

I don't think I'd buy a used Toyota/Honda/Subaru, unless it was >6 or so years old. The discount you get for buying late-model used on those makes doesn't seem worth it to me over buying new. For instance, at the time I bought my 2014 Outback, I could've bought a similarly equipped 2011 with 40k miles for just under 80% of the price I paid new. Losing the best three years of the car's life, under warranty, for 20% of the cost didn't seem worth it to me.

Just anecdotal evidence, but I'd either go much older for the really reliable brands, or pick a lower resale brand (which might be less reliable, of course).
Retirement investing is a marathon.
WhyNotUs
Posts: 2610
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:38 am

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by WhyNotUs »

There are definitely cars among the brands that you listed that you could pick up for under $10k with 50 or 60,000 miles.
I bought a new car this year, something that I have not done often in life, as I wanted an electric car. Could have paid cash but got 0% interest so I took a loan.
Many of the cars made today are of incredible quality. 200,000 miles is not out of reach for a good Toyota or Honda with good maintenance.
The increased quality of cars over the last decade or so is impressive.
Recently rode in a Honda Fit and thought it was a fine car, FWIW.
Good luck.
I own the next hot stock- VTSAX
User avatar
BolderBoy
Posts: 6755
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:16 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by BolderBoy »

I'd buy new if you can swing it. Then MAINTAIN the vehicle properly. And drive it properly (no jackrabbit starts, anticipate stopping, etc). If it doesn't come with synthetic oil on-board already, switch to that at your first oil change and going forward. Extend your oil changes to the maximum the manufacturer recommends, but don't go much beyond (7k miles should be about right). Take the car to the car wash once in a while - budget for it. If you live in a dirty locale, wash it often. Don't smoke in the car. Garage it if possible.

As others have said, 200k miles is not out of the question.

The important thing is to budget for auto ownership and the car will last a long time.
PowDay
Posts: 320
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:43 am

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by PowDay »

- How many miles per year will you be driving?
- Local/Highway driving?
- Urban street parking or Suburb/Rural?
- Do you enjoy driving? Comfort/sport? or do you just want the lowest possible transportation costs?
- Hobbies the car needs to support?
- Do you need to carry multiple people?
- Does it snow where you live? If so do you need to drive in it?

Buying a vehicle that will last the longest, isn't necessarily about the mechanics of the car, but finding a car that will fit your lifestyle for the longest amount of time. Everyone buys a new car saying they will drive it until the wheels fall off, but the data shows this rarely happens.
Jone
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2014 9:11 am

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by Jone »

Skip the car and buy a bicycle.

If that option is truly a non-starter, I also suggest considering the "certified used" (ex-lease) route. Arguments do vary, but certified used generally carry a substantial warranty at a lower initial cost and, on a good car, the dealership will have the service records.

I also agree with the notion of buying a car that will fit your lifestyle the longest. I currently drive a station wagon...after two pickups, three sedans, another wagon, and two SUVs. I find the wagon body style gives the best tradeoffs between stuff hauling, people hauling and MPG. My next car will probably be a Prius V.
Maid of the Mist
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:50 pm

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by Maid of the Mist »

If you are buying used, it is probably worth it to get a car fax on the car (though car faxes are not perfect, they can identify a problem vehicle). I also would have a good mechanic look at the vehicle before buying. Good luck.
sport
Posts: 12094
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:26 pm
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by sport »

In that price range, I would buy a new Toyota or Honda. You should be able to get a better deal on a 2014 model. I recently saw a 2014.5 Camry advertised at less than 20K. Get the model that fits your needs. The Camry and Accord are excellent choices.
Jeff
User avatar
Watty
Posts: 28860
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:55 pm

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by Watty »

kenyan wrote:I don't think I'd buy a used Toyota/Honda/Subaru, unless it was >6 or so years old. The discount you get for buying late-model used on those makes doesn't seem worth it to me over buying new. For instance, at the time I bought my 2014 Outback, I could've bought a similarly equipped 2011 with 40k miles for just under 80% of the price I paid new. Losing the best three years of the car's life, under warranty, for 20% of the cost didn't seem worth it to me.

Just anecdotal evidence, but I'd either go much older for the really reliable brands, or pick a lower resale brand (which might be less reliable, of course).
+1

Generally speaking it has been about ten or fifteen years since most late model used cars like that were discounted enough to be a good deal.




It does not
wojo8625
Posts: 259
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:21 am

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by wojo8625 »

Not trying to be a pain but why are foreign cars so popular on this forum? :) Just about every suggestion is a foreign car and American cars are very rarely suggested. Have you had bad experiences with American cars and/or found the foreign cars to be more reliable? Or do you base your decisions on publications like Consumer Reports and the like (which tends to favor foreign cars)? I have had a couple of Chevys that have lasted over 200K miles without much trouble but perhaps I was just lucky.
toblerone
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:42 pm

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by toblerone »

wojo8625 wrote:Not trying to be a pain but why are foreign cars so popular on this forum? :) Just about every suggestion is a foreign car and American cars are very rarely suggested. Have you had bad experiences with American cars and/or found the foreign cars to be more reliable? Or do you base your decisions on publications like Consumer Reports and the like (which tends to favor foreign cars)? I have had a couple of Chevys that have lasted over 200K miles without much trouble but perhaps I was just lucky.
I've owned several foreign and domestic. Of the domestic, the Chrysler was crap, the Saturn ok, Chevy pretty decent. Of the foreign the Hondas, Toyotas, and Nissans were all great and the Mazdas are the best 8-)
We all have our own opinions and many could be outliers, but in general I would expect foreign cars (especially Japanese cars) to be the favorite on this forum, based on my experience.
tigermilk
Posts: 870
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:32 am

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by tigermilk »

You have to define "lasting". In this day, many cars hold up mechanically, but cosmetically they start falling apart. Currently in my stable are

2007 Toyota Matrix - 85k miles and the only thing I've done is changed the oil and get tires. Plenty of highway miles so brakes are still on original pads. Clutch seems like it's getting a little softer, but that could be idle thoughts. However, the plastic bits on the car are starting to suffer from the hot Texas summers as the plastic is getting brittle. Recently discovered a door leak.

1998 BMW M3 - ~90k miles and a few little mechanical issues but mostly DIY oil changes and some expensive tire/rim replacements. A/C stopped working. Cosmetically it's a pig. Headliner falling down, a few of the vent vanes collapsed, coin holder got brittle and broke, all the plastic bits underneath are held on by zip ties. Someone banged the door last year so we made a claim and got the trunk lid repainted (was oxidizing). Wife REALLY loves all this and is always nagging to get rid of it, but to fix everything would probably be >$3k, and all the items are comfort/cosmetic related. Mechanically it's a bull still. But the cosmetic issues turned me off to buying another BMW. Not "built to last" IMO.

1978 Ferrari 308 GTB - Admittedly only about 500 miles/year are put on, but mechanically and cosmetically it's the same as when I bought it over 10 years ago

Why does the '78 hold up and the others not cosmetically? I'd say it's because the Ferrari is stored in the garage, away from the sun. Mechanically, even though I love a sporty drive, I drive conservatively - no redline shifts, hard braking, etc. Treat a car gently and more times than not, it will last mechanically.
adamthesmythe
Posts: 5774
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:47 pm

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by adamthesmythe »

> Not trying to be a pain but why are foreign cars so popular on this forum?

The Japanese models have been consistently highly reliable, generally offer good value purchased new AND have had high resale value. They are generally unexciting and are favored by those who want a car that is a reliable appliance.

Consumer Reports, as far as I can tell, favors cars because they are reliable and offer good value, not because of where they come from.
dbltrbl
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:52 am

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by dbltrbl »

Why are foreign read Japanese cars are popular? Personal experience. Chrysler, 3 transmissions needed before I junked the car. Ford crankshaft broke at 110,000 miles. another Chrysler dumped as needed new compressors, condensers twice for air conditioning. Chevy was let go at 167,000 miles. Another Chevy traded in at 206000, miles. All of the above needed additional repairs and dealer could not even find what was wrong.

Honda Accord, 194000 miles and going strong. No major repair. All routine maintenance. Prius 111000 Miles zero repairs. Corolla, not used much but 40000 miles nothing but Oil changes. (2007 model).

Case closed why we buy Toyota, Honda or Subaru. Bogleheads are smart people they get index funds though most if not all financial publications push active funds, Why? Same applies to car buying.

Also, Japanese employ more U.S. Workers than so called US companies. So They are no more foreign than US hardhearted companies.
User avatar
mike143
Posts: 1332
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:55 pm

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by mike143 »

We a 2012 Honda Civic LX Sedan and a 2013 Toyota Prius Two. In Florida you can buy a 2014 Honda Civic LX Sedan for $20k out the door and a 2014 Prius Two for $23k out the door. Our Civic averages 35mpg and the Prius averages 50mpg. Civic has 50k on it now, only issues was TPMS (Tire Pressure Monitoring System) in the rear tires stopped working and were replaced under warranty. The Prius has 12k on it had a software update shortly after procurement, purchased end of January 2014. Each have been to the dealership once for the aforementioned issues. I like the Prius better than the Civic and so does my wife. Both are financed at 1.49%, one through PenFed the other Alliant Credit Union.

Checkout truedelta.com for historical reliability.
Nothing is free, someone pays...You can't spend your way to financial freedom.
jlawrence01
Posts: 1908
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:34 am
Location: Southern AZ

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by jlawrence01 »

wojo8625 wrote:Not trying to be a pain but why are foreign cars so popular on this forum? :) Just about every suggestion is a foreign car and American cars are very rarely suggested. Have you had bad experiences with American cars and/or found the foreign cars to be more reliable? Or do you base your decisions on publications like Consumer Reports and the like (which tends to favor foreign cars)? I have had a couple of Chevys that have lasted over 200K miles without much trouble but perhaps I was just lucky.

Front 1982-2007, I bought only Big 3 vehicles for my personal vehicle. The company car was whatever we were given (no choice).

Personally, I was tired of transmission problems with Fords and my last Oldsmobile engine blew at 120k. I decided to give Toyota a try.

I have NO CONFIDENCE in Consumer Report's. I prefer Phil Edmonton's Lemon Aid Guides from Canada as he helped me get my last transmission replaces at little charge from Ford even though it was 3000 miles past warranty.
nimo956
Posts: 914
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:07 pm

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by nimo956 »

wojo8625 wrote:Not trying to be a pain but why are foreign cars so popular on this forum? :) Just about every suggestion is a foreign car and American cars are very rarely suggested. Have you had bad experiences with American cars and/or found the foreign cars to be more reliable? Or do you base your decisions on publications like Consumer Reports and the like (which tends to favor foreign cars)? I have had a couple of Chevys that have lasted over 200K miles without much trouble but perhaps I was just lucky.
I have been very happy with my Ford cars. Up until last year, I was still driving the Ford Taurus I bought in 2003, which was my first car I got at 16 (I'm 28 now). It was 5 years old at the time, so it lasted about 16 years without any major problems. I bought a used 2011 Ford Fusion with about 30k miles for around $17k this year and have been very happy with it so far.
50% VTI / 50% VXUS
Leesbro63
Posts: 10640
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:36 pm

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by Leesbro63 »

wojo8625 wrote:Not trying to be a pain but why are foreign cars so popular on this forum? :) Just about every suggestion is a foreign car and American cars are very rarely suggested. Have you had bad experiences with American cars and/or found the foreign cars to be more reliable? Or do you base your decisions on publications like Consumer Reports and the like (which tends to favor foreign cars)? I have had a couple of Chevys that have lasted over 200K miles without much trouble but perhaps I was just lucky.
Personal experience. Can't beat Honda/Toyota.
User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 95696
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by LadyGeek »

This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (discussion changed from finance to cars).
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
NHRATA01
Posts: 654
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: New York City area

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by NHRATA01 »

I've been in a GM family for years and between my parents and I, the only real reliability lemon in there was an '03 Blazer I bought at the end of it's model run for dirt cheap ($14.7K on a 27K sticker) after sitting on the lot for a year.

That said in general it is hard to dispute that Toyota and Honda have been a step above the rest of the industry in quality for quite some time. Not without some warts (Honda had automatic trans issues in the late 90s-00s) but they tended to clearly out perform. The gap has generally closed a good between GM/Ford and Honda/Toyota compared to 15 years ago, but I'd be lying if I called it parity. Chrysler is another story all together, but I chalk a lot of that up to their time as Daimler's redheaded step child in the merger and it's neglect under private equity. They're making strides now.

From personal experience as well as known issues, Nissan lags quite a bit and seems to benefit from the reliability reputation of its Japanese peers. Mazda tends to be solid, Subaru slightly less so but mostly due to its performance models.
fishmonger
Posts: 817
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:20 pm

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by fishmonger »

Barring a dramatic drop in quality/reliability, I'm not sure I'll ever buy a vehicle other than Toyota
Leesbro63
Posts: 10640
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:36 pm

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by Leesbro63 »

fishmonger wrote:Barring a dramatic drop in quality/reliability, I'm not sure I'll ever buy a vehicle other than Toyota
+1
surfhb
Posts: 231
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:13 pm

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by surfhb »

I drive a Toyota pick up with 507k miles on it.....nuff said :)
The Wizard
Posts: 13356
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:45 pm
Location: Reading, MA

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by The Wizard »

OP questioned whether to spend 90% of savings on this new vehicle.
If you have a separate emergency fund, then maybe do it, yes. Otherwise borrow a few thousand at low rate and pay it off in a few months...
Attempted new signature...
Carl53
Posts: 2693
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:26 pm

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by Carl53 »

You can pay cash and if an emergency pops up, put it on your cc. If it is big enough that you will not be able to pay it off at the end of the month, refinance the car for a few thousand with PenFed CU or similar establishment. Seems like they often have very good deals on car refinancing as in occasionally less than 2%. My son refinanced his car and a couple of other loans against his car for a sub 3% rate at a local CU where he had originally taken the car loan out for something north of 4%.
karpems
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:35 am

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by karpems »

karpems
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:35 am

Re: Buying a lasting vehicle

Post by karpems »

In short:

The most likely to hit 300,000 miles:

GM full-sized trucks and SUVs
Ford full-sized trucks and SUVs
Ford rear-wheel-drive V-8 cars
Honda four-cylinder cars
Toyota everything (except Celica and RAV4)
By our calculations, these models are about 2.5 times more likely to hit 300,000 miles than any other vehicle.

One Nissan model is greater than all of Volkswagen:

We're not talking about a mid-sized Altima, or the Sentra compact which has become the official taxi south of the border. The biggest surprise so far in the study has been the Nissan Maxima. Older models (2002 and earlier) with the 3-liter engine and four-speed automatic offer exceptional long-term reliability.

In the long-term reliability study, 1,038 Maximas out of 4,825 have gone over 180,000 miles (21%), versus only 785 Volkswagens out of 14,518 (5.4%)

Cadillac has VW levels of long-term reliability:

Both brands have abysmal long-term reliability with Cadillac scoring the same 5.4% as Volkswagen, which is less than half of the industry average. Head gasket issues for most years of the Northstar V-8 along with high maintenance costs make older Cadillacs a nadir when it comes to finding a long-term keeper.

How bad does it get for Cadillac? Well, here's a shocker for you.

Cadillac Cars = Older Kias: If you removed the Cadillac Escalade, which is nothing more than a full-sized primped-up version of the less expensive Chevy Tahoe and GMC Yukon, the Cadillac brand becomes a true bottom dweller. Kias that were made before Hyundai's takeover of that brand show similar levels of long-term failure.

The Honda Accord Crushes Nearly All of Europe: Thanks in great part to the sound reliability of older Volvos, all European brands are barely able to beat the number of Accords that have been traded-in with over 180,000 miles. The Honda Accord's tally of 3,826 trade-ins with over 180,000 out of 12,398 nearly beats Audi, BMW, Jaguar, Land Rover, Mercedes, VW, Volvo, Saab, Porsche, and BMW's sub-brand MINI combined. These European models required a staggering 67,484 vehicles and an army of old Volvos to surpass the mileage tally of one popular Honda model.

British Roots Do Not Bear Reliable Fruit: You have about as much chance of dying from an injury this year as you do buying a Land Rover and a Jaguar with outstanding reliability. The chances of both vehicles combined lasting over 180,000 miles before getting kicked to the curb is an eye-popping 1,700:1.

The Accord and Camry Are Workhorses: Even with well-known transmission issues for certain six-cylinder Honda Accords, the two most popular mid-sized vehicles continue to be kept for far longer periods of time than their competition. The Accord and Camry have remained cars worth keeping with 28% of all Accords traded-in with over 180,000 miles, and 24% of all Toyota Camrys following suit. Both are more than twice the industry average of 11%.

Exceptional Reliability Is Still A Rare Thing: A lot of manufacturers have applied cost-cutting measures and decontenting methods to extremes. These engineering shortcuts often don't reveal themselves until after the vehicle goes beyond 100,000 miles. However, there is still a very wide gulf that separates the market leaders from the market laggards as those miles and years add up.
Post Reply