Smartphone questions

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
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Riversider
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Smartphone questions

Post by Riversider »

Samsung S4/S5 vs. Samsung Note3/4 vs. Apple iphones vs. Motos vs. anything else? Which smartphone(s) do Bogleheads generally prefer? Does it trend any which way? Does it matter? Ready to dump cheap ATT basic phone and wade into the world of "smart"; I've read everything there is on the Web and seeking additional input if any. Thanks for any thoughts/observations. Perhaps those who have had both (Apple AND Android) might have helpful advice? Also curious if anybody has just bought "too much phone" and would do it differently, and why? -- Riversider
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digarei
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by digarei »

Familiarity breeds content(ment).

My only direct personal experience is with the Moto X purchased outright using Republic Wireless (for about $300). Monthly charge is $25 .... $29 inc tax/fees. It seeks out wireless networks for calling, texting, Internet use but works seamlessly on cell mode and even roams when necessary. Others say this model compares favorably to high end phones. I like the voice activated searches ("Where am I?" "What's playing at the XXX theater tonight?") It is smarter than I require and meets my low monthly cost criterium. It's also a nice looking phone.
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youngcrv
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by youngcrv »

If you are light data user, you might also want to consider ting.com. I recently signed up with 4 lines (migrated family plan from Sprint). Its probably not the best plan for heavy data users.
mhalley
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by mhalley »

There are 2 main decisions to make, followed by multiple sub-decisions. First, apple or android. Plepuses ans minuses to noth. Bogleheadish answer is android, you can get much cheaper android phones, although if you go back a generation you can get a cheaper iphone. Second is buy or get a contract. Lots of peiople balk at paying hundreds of dollars up front for a phone, but if you get a contract phone you pay more in the long run. Then you have to decide which co to go with, what plan to get, on and onClark howard has some good guides.
I myself thought the old iphones were too small, but everyone has their own opinion.
http://www.clarkhoward.com/categories/t ... ell-phone/
If still on the fence, you might try the t mobile iphone test drive.]
http://explore.t-mobile.com/test-drive- ... 69tu6trunk
Mike
Last edited by mhalley on Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
nordlead
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by nordlead »

What you get doesn't really matter. Android will tend to be more cost effective than Apple (but not always). Go to the store and try them out for yourself. I prefer Android because I like to root them and then customize them. Due to that, my phone has all sorts of features that you wouldn't get stock anywhere else. Funny things is, a lot of these features eventually get baked into the stock Android build after being available on custom setups. One of my favorite custom features is PIE controls, which allow the controls to remain hidden giving you more screen real estate. I'm not a fan of Apple's OS. I find it confusing to use every time I have to use it. I think the biggest factor is the lack of a back button which means I'm constantly looking around the screen for one. Again, your experience may be different, so go try it out in a store.

I have a Nexus 5 (the nexus line of phones are reference phones built for Google and tend to be very cost effective), and my wife has a Samsung Galaxy S3. We started 1.5 years ago with Nexus S 4G's for $50 each until they broke (both random deaths, I think hers was from leaving it in a hot glove compartment box).

Honestly, the Nexus S 4G is good enough for basic smartphone needs. It will be sluggish, but dirt cheap (under $50). If you aren't committed and want to experiment, something like the Nexus S would be a good start. The Samsung Galaxy S3 runs closer to $120 or so, and is pretty good. A tiny bit sluggish, but much faster than Nexus S. The Nexus 5 is fast and responsive, new at $350. I'd still recommend that as the #1 phone for the dollar (the Nexus 6 is too big in my opinion).

In my opinion, I'd get anything 1.2GHz dual core with 1GB of RAM running Stock Android (So, Galaxy Nexus) or above unless you want a really low cost experiment. The Galaxy S3 is a 1.4GHz quad core with 2GB of RAM, but due to Samsungs bloatware it can be a tiny bit sluggish. I think anything more expensive than a Nexus 5 (2.26GHz quad core with 2GB of RAM) you are probably spending too much for too little extra.

As you can tell, I'm a big fan of the Nexus line of phones. They are hard to beat price for performance wise. These are just my opinion though. I'm sure someone finds the Samsung Galaxy S5 or the HTC M8 superior to the Nexus 5, I just don't see the point in paying $600 instead of $350.
Quickfoot
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by Quickfoot »

Lots of peiople balk at paying hundreds of dollars up front for a phone, but if you get a contract phone you pay more in the long run
That's actually often not true. With both AT&T and Verizon total cost of ownership is higher if you purchase the phone upfront even though both carriers give monthly service discounts for not subsidizing the phone. This is because the discount isn't enough to make up for the subsidizing fee normally baked into the plan. With both AT&T and Verizon the only reason to bring your own device or purchase is if you want to upgrade more often than once every two years, and you will pay a premium for doing so. For example we recently switched to Verizon and got two S4's free for signing up for a contract, this saved us $400 over two years vs going the Verizon Edge route or buying the phone upfront.

Verizon Edge and AT&T Next both exist because they make the carriers more money than if you sign a 2 year contract and subsidize the phone. Now if you are talking about MVNOs like Ting yes you can save money by buying your device but you have to use it long enough (more than two years).
nordlead
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by nordlead »

Quickfoot wrote:Verizon Edge and AT&T Next both exist because they make the carriers more money than if you sign a 2 year contract and subsidize the phone. Now if you are talking about MVNOs like Ting yes you can save money by buying your device but you have to use it long enough (more than two years).
This depends heavily on your usage patterns. Based on my usage patterns, the difference between T-mobile (assuming $80/month family plan) and a cheaper MVNO for two cell phones is ~$60/month. In 2 years, I can buy 2 brand new $650 smartphones and still have money left over.

I use my smartphone heavily, but I also work a desk job that has Wifi and almost everywhere I go has wifi. I have a VPN on my home network if I'm concerned about security.
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auntJovie
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by auntJovie »

My data point:

* As noted above, Android is eminently tweakable, which I love.

* I have an unlocked Moto G (2013), and it's a powerful phone for not much money (paid $135 on eBay six months ago)

* I use Lycamobile, a dirt-cheap prepaid MVNO (2c/min voice) with mediocre data that I don't often use, because:

* Have Wifi at work and at home, don't need much data elsewhere but can get it in a pinch
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oneleaf
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by oneleaf »

I think the cost conscious person should be very excited about the "no contract" low cost Android phones that are coming out. It is true that Androids are often not cheaper than iPhones... for instance the Samsung Galaxy Note 3 off contract is the same price at $750. But the Nexus and Moto lines are very good values and excellent products. The Moto E is under $150 and gives a non bloated pure Android experience. The Moto G is around $180 and the LTE version (if you live somewhere with good 4G coverage) is $220. I own the Moto G LTE and love it. I pair it up with a Ptel prepaid plan and rarely spend more than $8/month on both minutes and data.
The Wizard
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by The Wizard »

I'm on my second android phone now and am happy with it.
It's a Nexus 5 which I used with Cricket for a while but now on Consumer Cellular.

Since the OP is new to smartphones, it will take a while to figure out which apps to get for it and how to integrate in into your life to the point that it becomes indispensable. :shock:

I'd recommend buying the (unlocked) phone outright, possibly with a SIM card preconfigured for your initial provider...
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bloom2708
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by bloom2708 »

I see that the $99 Moto E is on sale now at RepublicWireless.com.

Add a 32GB micro-SD card and you have a pretty good entry level smartphone. Flip between the $10 and $25 plans and you should be able to have a good phone for < $20/month.

I continue to use an iPhone 4S on Ting.com. Although I am tempted to try Republic Wireless. I've never had great luck with any wi-fi calling product. Down is fine, but sending your voice up through the limited up bandwidth is often digitized, choppy, jerky or all of the above.
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heartwood
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by heartwood »

Apple or Android? I've got the Nexus 5; my wife has had Apple for years and just got the iphone 6.

IMO, no contest, android wins. So much more intuitive flexiblity on the screen.

I bought my unlocked Nexus 5 for $350 half a year ago directly from Google. The new Nexus phones have gone up a lot in price. Still a great platform, but not the screaming value it was since the base price for the Nexus 6 is $650 unlocked. An 86% increase. Almost the same price as the iphone 6.

IMO, go android. Look at Nexus or the Moto phones.

Oh, one more plus for android, all my devices use the same charging cord (phone, kindle, cheap tablet). The iphone 6 has the new apple cord so you'll need a new adapter for your car? It will still plug into one of the USB ports or USB cigarette inserts.
nordlead
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by nordlead »

bloom2708 wrote:I see that the $99 Moto E is on sale now at RepublicWireless.com.

Add a 32GB micro-SD card and you have a pretty good entry level smartphone. Flip between the $10 and $25 plans and you should be able to have a good phone for < $20/month.

I continue to use an iPhone 4S on Ting.com. Although I am tempted to try Republic Wireless. I've never had great luck with any wi-fi calling product. Down is fine, but sending your voice up through the limited up bandwidth is often digitized, choppy, jerky or all of the above.
I've been using VoIP for over a decade now. 1Mbps up is more than enough for quality voice and you typically only need ~100kbps. The real problem is jitter, which can be really bad on Wifi (if you own the router you can set a high quality of service for the phone to combat this). The new Hangouts Voice calling does an excellent job eliminating echos, lag, and so forth. Prior to that I got pretty decent results with a bit of manual tweaking with Spare Phone and Google Voice. VoIP over CAT5 cable (Vonage, Ooma, etc...) always worked well.

Based on Google's success, I have to imagine that Republic Wireless has worked out some pretty good results.
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FelixTheCat
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by FelixTheCat »

I buy my phones like my cars. I want something that is no maintenance that works 24/7 for years without any issues. I have an iPhone.
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arf30
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by arf30 »

Have a cheap android phone (LG Nexus 5) that I used with Ting and now StraightTalk. Moto X and G are also recommended. You'll pay under $50 a month with no contract either way. iPhone is likely a better device, but you'll either pay a premium or be stuck with an old one.
Last edited by arf30 on Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
bungalow10
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by bungalow10 »

Android. I know someone above suggested iPhone was more reliable... but all my coworkers who have Apple complain that they get slower and slower with age (and updates).

and all my Apple friends are always entranced by the cool things my Android phone does... things I take for granted like the navigation, Assist, and some of the Google stuff.

My phone is a Motorola.
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oneleaf
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by oneleaf »

bungalow10 wrote:Android. I know someone above suggested iPhone was more reliable... but all my coworkers who have Apple complain that they get slower and slower with age (and updates).
Yea, my mom asked me why every update makes her Apple stuff worse and worse. iOS8 made my ipad mini practically unuseable even after resets and stuff. I am a bit of an Android convert after having great experience with the Moto series stock android OS. My wife has a Samsung and I find it inferior because Samsung adds a layer of bloat and I feel her phone is slower than it was when we first bought it.
harikaried
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by harikaried »

Riversider wrote:Also curious if anybody has just bought "too much phone" and would do it differently, and why?
I'm pleasantly surprised at all the responses that mention ting.com, but it's a great approach to avoiding buying "too much phone plan." The popular carriers tend to focus on unlimited X/Y/Z, but that's probably getting people to pay more for things they don't end up using. Whereas some providers like Ting charge for what you use.

I've been with Ting for ~20 months averaging ~$21/mo for usage. There was one month that I didn't have as much access to my phone, and the bill automatically dropped to $12.

As others have pointed out, if you're using a lot of data, Ting bills will add up quite a bit. But most of the time, I'm using the phone at work or at home or other places that have WiFi.
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G12
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by G12 »

Riversider wrote:Samsung S4/S5 vs. Samsung Note3/4 vs. Apple iphones vs. Motos vs. anything else? Which smartphone(s) do Bogleheads generally prefer? Does it trend any which way? Does it matter?
I think it depends on user preference. I like Android, my wife loves Apple. I recently upgraded from an S3 to an S5, moved my 32 GB expansion card to the S5, works perfectly. My wife's i4S was dying and she got a new i6 in September, it uses battery much more so than the 4S. I believe if someone plans to keep their phones for multiple years the memory expansion AND easy batter replacement and/or capability of expanding to a higher capacity battery is very attractive compared to the built in battery of an iphone. The dying battery was a big issue in her 4S and she believed a iOS upgrade rendered her on/off button inoperable. I plan on keeping my S5 3-4 years, so am very happy with the features mentioned above, I have reservations as to how long her battery will hold up or forced obsolescence.
Louis Winthorpe III
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by Louis Winthorpe III »

bungalow10 wrote:Android. I know someone above suggested iPhone was more reliable... but all my coworkers who have Apple complain that they get slower and slower with age (and updates).
The above is interesting. I have a dumb phone and am planning on getting my first smartphone soon. At my workplace almost everyone has an iphone. It has to be almost 90%. I told a group of coworkers that I view Apple as a premium priced, premium brand, and I didn't want to be a part of that ecosystem. One told me he felt the same way for a long time, and he has no intentions of getting sucked in to the expensive Apple ecosystem overall, but he makes an exception for his phone. After having a number of Android devices, he said he loves his iphone because "it just works." He specifically said he felt his Android phones slowed down over time, but he hasn't experienced that with his iphone. In other words, his experience was exactly the opposite of yours and all your coworkers. Likewise, the rest of the group I was speaking to were unanimous in saying their user experience was better with iphone than Android. They left me thinking there really wasn't much reason other than price to prefer Android.

Makes it tough to decide.
bungalow10
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by bungalow10 »

Louis Winthorpe III wrote:
bungalow10 wrote:Android. I know someone above suggested iPhone was more reliable... but all my coworkers who have Apple complain that they get slower and slower with age (and updates).
The above is interesting. I have a dumb phone and am planning on getting my first smartphone soon. At my workplace almost everyone has an iphone. It has to be almost 90%. I told a group of coworkers that I view Apple as a premium priced, premium brand, and I didn't want to be a part of that ecosystem. One told me he felt the same way for a long time, and he has no intentions of getting sucked in to the expensive Apple ecosystem overall, but he makes an exception for his phone. After having a number of Android devices, he said he loves his iphone because "it just works." He specifically said he felt his Android phones slowed down over time, but he hasn't experienced that with his iphone. In other words, his experience was exactly the opposite of yours and all your coworkers. Likewise, the rest of the group I was speaking to were unanimous in saying their user experience was better with iphone than Android. They left me thinking there really wasn't much reason other than price to prefer Android.

Makes it tough to decide.
Interesting. I don't know a single person who has switched from Android to Iphone, but I know the other way around. My office used to be about 100% Iphone because our IT only supported integrating our email on IPhone.
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Louis Winthorpe III
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by Louis Winthorpe III »

bungalow10 wrote:
Louis Winthorpe III wrote:
bungalow10 wrote:Android. I know someone above suggested iPhone was more reliable... but all my coworkers who have Apple complain that they get slower and slower with age (and updates).
The above is interesting. I have a dumb phone and am planning on getting my first smartphone soon. At my workplace almost everyone has an iphone. It has to be almost 90%. I told a group of coworkers that I view Apple as a premium priced, premium brand, and I didn't want to be a part of that ecosystem. One told me he felt the same way for a long time, and he has no intentions of getting sucked in to the expensive Apple ecosystem overall, but he makes an exception for his phone. After having a number of Android devices, he said he loves his iphone because "it just works." He specifically said he felt his Android phones slowed down over time, but he hasn't experienced that with his iphone. In other words, his experience was exactly the opposite of yours and all your coworkers. Likewise, the rest of the group I was speaking to were unanimous in saying their user experience was better with iphone than Android. They left me thinking there really wasn't much reason other than price to prefer Android.

Makes it tough to decide.
Interesting. I don't know a single person who has switched from Android to Iphone, but I know the other way around. My office used to be about 100% Iphone because our IT only supported integrating our email on IPhone.
Yeah, I'm not a cheerleader for either side. Just gathering data points right now. But most of the reviews by tech editors on various sites seem to be more positive about iphones vs Android devices, and those reviews combined with the advice from coworkers was causing me to lean toward an iphone. Maybe not the way to go after all, but this is one area I intend to be less price-sensitive than I would normally be. I just want something highly intuitive and completely reliable.
kd2008
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by kd2008 »

nordlead wrote: The Samsung Galaxy S3 runs closer to $120 or so, and is pretty good. A tiny bit sluggish, but much faster than Nexus S. The Nexus 5 is fast and responsive, new at $350. I'd still recommend that as the #1 phone for the dollar (the Nexus 6 is too big in my opinion).

In my opinion, I'd get anything 1.2GHz dual core with 1GB of RAM running Stock Android (So, Galaxy Nexus) or above unless you want a really low cost experiment. The Galaxy S3 is a 1.4GHz quad core with 2GB of RAM, but due to Samsungs bloatware it can be a tiny bit sluggish. I think anything more expensive than a Nexus 5 (2.26GHz quad core with 2GB of RAM) you are probably spending too much for too little extra.

As you can tell, I'm a big fan of the Nexus line of phones. They are hard to beat price for performance wise. These are just my opinion though. I'm sure someone finds the Samsung Galaxy S5 or the HTC M8 superior to the Nexus 5, I just don't see the point in paying $600 instead of $350.
I have S3 and like it a lot. I believe the screen color & rendition, size, speed, camera, LTE, microsd slot, removable battery work for me. Anything more would be good but overkill for my needs. Where can I find a S3 for $120? Could you please suggest some sites? Thanks! It would be nice to have a spare of something I like.
whomever
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by whomever »

My S.O. has been pretty happy with a Moto G that was about $100 and a prepaid plan.

Before that we tried a $35 Android phone. I forget the brand - Z something. That was a little too far down the economy scale to really be usable.
Puakinekine
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by Puakinekine »

There is also the option of a Windows phone, which sits someplace in between the rigidity of Apple and the wild west of Android. Having had both Apple and Android devices and not really liking the operating systems on either of them, I took the chance (much to the dismay of the sales people at Verizon) and got a Nokia Lumia Icon. Windows phones are used much more out of the US then in the US. People love to hate Microsoft, but they are coming up from behind, and this phone does everything I want simply and easily with a gorgeous screen and all the apps that I might use. The camera is excellent. If you are already running Windows 8.1 on any other device, the learning curve will not be very steep. Another windows phone that looks very interesting is the HTC One M8, which can run Windows or Android.
http://www.zdnet.com/htc-one-m8-android ... 000032917/
But that aside, whatever phone you get, I think size, visibility (screen quality—the Window’s live tiles help tremendously with visibility) camera and battery life are the most important things for me. I text more then I talk. The bottom line really is that you will be purchasing a small tablet that you can also make phone calls with, not a phone.
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G12
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by G12 »

kd2008 wrote:I have S3 and like it a lot. I believe the screen color & rendition, size, speed, camera, LTE, microsd slot, removable battery work for me. Anything more would be good but overkill for my needs. Where can I find a S3 for $120? Could you please suggest some sites? Thanks! It would be nice to have a spare of something I like.
I will sell mine if you are interested. It is in perfect working order with screen saver/expanded Laza case due to upsizing the battery. PM me if you are interested.
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oneleaf
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by oneleaf »

Louis Winthorpe III wrote: Yeah, I'm not a cheerleader for either side. Just gathering data points right now. But most of the reviews by tech editors on various sites seem to be more positive about iphones vs Android devices, and those reviews combined with the advice from coworkers was causing me to lean toward an iphone. Maybe not the way to go after all, but this is one area I intend to be less price-sensitive than I would normally be. I just want something highly intuitive and completely reliable.
I used to feel Apple was worth the premium and was a big fan of the Macbook Pro, Air, Mac Mini, iPad and iPhone product lines. But back then, Android experience on tablets and phones was a bit disappointing. I am a complete convert to Android for multiple reasons:
  • Latest gen of Android phones are really nice and they also "just work".
  • The premium seems to get larger and larger in terms of value vs hardware specs. And this is across the board. I cannot justify a Mac Mini over a NUC or an iPhone over an Android phone or a iPad over an Android tablet anymore. I used to justify the price premium due to a better user experience, but not anymore.
  • The restrictive ecosystem and Apple's insistence in dictating exactly how you can use your devices has always been a problem and I have pretty much decided I cannot accept it anymore. Getting digital stuff on and off a device should not be so hard and require you to install iTunes.
  • I think their so-called "planned obsolescence" method of rendering old devices useless by not supporting old OS's (in the case of my Macbook) or just making the user experience much worse (in the case of my iPad and IOS8) makes me realize that they really do not expect us to enjoy their products for more than 2 years. For the price we pay, I find it unacceptable. I just want my iPad the way it was before IOS8 but that is not an option and I went from using it all day everyday to rarely touching it. It is actually quite awful... I cannot even type on the keypad without stuff locking up or being very laggy and it is not even 2 years old yet (it is a first gen iPad Mini which came out in Nov 2012). My mom and Dad have an iPad 2 and 3 respectively and they called me to ask me why IOS8 made their iPads worse. They both want Android tablets now.
This is just my experience and I know there are alot of happy Apple users. In fact, they are still at the top. But I really do not like the direction they have gone. (even upgradeability of their laptops have gotten harder).
nordlead
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by nordlead »

Louis Winthorpe III wrote:
bungalow10 wrote:Android. I know someone above suggested iPhone was more reliable... but all my coworkers who have Apple complain that they get slower and slower with age (and updates).
The above is interesting. I have a dumb phone and am planning on getting my first smartphone soon. At my workplace almost everyone has an iphone. It has to be almost 90%. I told a group of coworkers that I view Apple as a premium priced, premium brand, and I didn't want to be a part of that ecosystem. One told me he felt the same way for a long time, and he has no intentions of getting sucked in to the expensive Apple ecosystem overall, but he makes an exception for his phone. After having a number of Android devices, he said he loves his iphone because "it just works." He specifically said he felt his Android phones slowed down over time, but he hasn't experienced that with his iphone. In other words, his experience was exactly the opposite of yours and all your coworkers. Likewise, the rest of the group I was speaking to were unanimous in saying their user experience was better with iphone than Android. They left me thinking there really wasn't much reason other than price to prefer Android.

Makes it tough to decide.
For android, a lot depends on what manufacture you buy from.

The closer you get to Stock Android (Nexus phones, Motorolla, off-contract, etc...), the better. Samsung tends to add a lot of bloatware with their touch-wiz interface, and the carriers are infamous for adding bloatware. The biggest advantage that Apple has is they have complete control over their phone and have forced the carriers to not add bloatware. Buying a Nexus device or rooting an android device will put you on the same footing.

I can definitively say, that on all of my nexus devices they have only gotten more responsive as they moved up from older versions of Android up to Android 4.4 (Kit Kat). Google has been working Android towards needing less resources and running faster and there was a big jump when they went to KitKat. I'm positive that Android 5.0 (Lolipop) will be even faster due to the fact that they are switching from just-in-time compiling to pre-compiling (moving from Dalvik to ART runtimes). and I should have it ~1 week after initial launch. However, I would believe you if you told me that your Samsung Galaxy S# got slower after updates as they keep adding more bloat to TouchWiz.

I can't speak to Apple getting faster/slower as I don't use them often enough to notice a difference between the OS versions. I've heard rumors of slowdowns and other problems, but that is it. I don't have first hand experience.

In terms of reliability I don't see how iOS is any more reliable than stock Android. Both have had their share of botched releases (iOS 8.1 and Android 4.4.3 quickly followed by 4.4.4 for example), and both seem pretty rock solid otherwise. Granted, Android 2.x did suck in comparison. Bloatware is another story though, and can cause problems if a manufacture rushes the software.

Can't say I've ever heard of any massive problems with a quality manufacturer of Android hardware. Maybe when the iPhone was first released the hardware may have been put together better and it lasted longer, but now you only ever hear about how the Apple metal case "feels premium". You don't see reports of massive failures of the Moto X, Galaxy S5, Nexus 5, etc... They are well put together.

One thing Apple does hold over Android (and their hardware manufactures) big time, is that Apple uses low latency audio outputs on all of their devices. Which means, as a musical person you can use any of their hardware (desktop, laptop, tablet, phone, and whatever else they sell) out of the box as a synthesizer. There are no big time synthesizers built for Android because most manufactures don't have low latency audio output. This probably doesn't matter to 99% of the population though :D
nordlead
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by nordlead »

kd2008 wrote:I have S3 and like it a lot. I believe the screen color & rendition, size, speed, camera, LTE, microsd slot, removable battery work for me. Anything more would be good but overkill for my needs. Where can I find a S3 for $120? Could you please suggest some sites? Thanks! It would be nice to have a spare of something I like.
Sorry, I probably should have clarified that I bought all my phones used off of ebay except the Nexus 5. I spent $120 around 3 months ago after a few weeks of perusing ebay for a quality phone for a low price.
kDictavissent
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by kDictavissent »

You're getting very good advice here in the thread.

I've been an iPhone user since the first-gen. Have liked it very much and it is an easy adjustment for a non-smartphone user. At the same time, I went abroad earlier this year with a cheap ($130) Moto E phone and was surprised how fast and powerful it was compared to my iPhone 5S. More intensive apps like rendering web pages were slow, but email, GPS, etc. were snappy.

From a cost-savings vs. power perspective, I would probably go with the Moto G if I switched to Android. Less than $200 unlocked and off-contract, but plenty of power. Unlocked and off-contract is important to maximize your savings as you can pick between AT&T, Cricket (AT&T's own MVNO, which better rates), and T-Mobile, plus use the phone internationally. You can do this with some VZ phones, too, but you will have much more openness staying with AT&T/T-Mobile-compatible phones. You can also buy these directly from vendors like Amazon rather than going through a carrier.

I also strongly agree with the recommendation that if you get an Android phone, that you get one that is "stock" Android without vendor-specific customizations, be they from the phone manufacturer or carrier. For now, Motorola is the best at doing this in their X/G/E series. The sale to Lenovo could change things, but for now they're a great pick.

I still have and use my iPhone and like it, but the bloom is off the rose a bit for me with the iPhone. I am and will remain a Mac user (BSD underpinnings and the ability to drop to a real command line, baby!), but may give my wife my iPhone and move to Android when we change carriers, which is looming.
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oneleaf
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by oneleaf »

nordlead wrote: For android, a lot depends on what manufacture you buy from.

The closer you get to Stock Android (Nexus phones, Motorolla, off-contract, etc...), the better. Samsung tends to add a lot of bloatware with their touch-wiz interface, and the carriers are infamous for adding bloatware. The biggest advantage that Apple has is they have complete control over their phone and have forced the carriers to not add bloatware. Buying a Nexus device or rooting an android device will put you on the same footing.

I can definitively say, that on all of my nexus devices they have only gotten more responsive as they moved up from older versions of Android up to Android 4.4 (Kit Kat). Google has been working Android towards needing less resources and running faster and there was a big jump when they went to KitKat. I'm positive that Android 5.0 (Lolipop) will be even faster due to the fact that they are switching from just-in-time compiling to pre-compiling (moving from Dalvik to ART runtimes). and I should have it ~1 week after initial launch. However, I would believe you if you told me that your Samsung Galaxy S# got slower after updates as they keep adding more bloat to TouchWiz.
Yep this is my experience. My wife's Samsung Galaxy Note 3 has gotten slower and occasionally is caught overheating with a massive cpu usage for no reason. My Moto G LTE is an incredibly smooth and zippy experience despite being much lower spec'd. I blame Samsung's bloatware for this and always recommend the Nexus or Moto series for Android.


nordlead wrote: Can't say I've ever heard of any massive problems with a quality manufacturer of Android hardware. Maybe when the iPhone was first released the hardware may have been put together better and it lasted longer, but now you only ever hear about how the Apple metal case "feels premium". You don't see reports of massive failures of the Moto X, Galaxy S5, Nexus 5, etc... They are well put together.
My Moto G does not look as premium as an iPhone but it is very "holdable" and I feel comfortable using it naked without any protection. I have had it in same pocket as keys and stuff and it is still in perfect condition. I really do not think durability is a major consideration between choosing Apple vs Android. I agree with you that the premium nature is more to be appreciated than offering real world benefits. I have dropped my Moto a couple times to no ill effect.
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walkabout
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by walkabout »

I don't have any experience with Android, but my family does have iPhones (6 and 5s), iPad, and a MacBook (just purchased to replace a Windows laptop). I don't have a bad thing to say about our iDevices. I love the integration between the iPhone, iPad, and MacBook (automatic syncing of photos, messages, documents). I like the ability to automatically backup my iPhone and iPad every night. When I get a new iDevice, it is easy to restore it from my previous backup so that I don't have to manually reinstall apps, reload photos, or reenter settings. I assume you can do some of most of this to some degree with an Android. I don't know if it is built in, as in the Apple products, or if you have to install third party apps to achieve this.

I have not experienced slowdown as an iPhone ages and is upgraded (with new iOS). But, then again, I tend to upgrade every couple of years so I am never really running a "new" iOS on an "old" iPhone. There is usually some issue after an iOS upgrade, like faster battery drain, but it is usually easy to resolve by tweaking some settings (to reduce background activity) or with an iOS patch.

I have seen several complaints here on BH about not being able to get stuff (like photos) off of an iPhone without plugging it into iTunes (plugging into computer and using iTunes to perform the desired function). If you have wifi at home (or have access to a trusted wifi), there should be almost no reason to use iTunes on your computer to do anything to your iPhone (unless you are already an iTunes user anyway). If you just have an iPhone and you want to get your photos onto your computer, there are at least three ways, only one of which requires physical connection to computer:
1. Connect iPhone to computer and use Windows (assuming Windows computer) AutoPlay (which should pop after you connect your iPhone) to import the photos. It will copy all photos taken since the last time you connected and copy them to your computer.
2. PhotoShare - The iPhone can automatically upload each photo that you take to Apple's PhotoStream (part of iCloud). The photos will remain in PhotoStream for something like 30 days or 1000 photos (PhotoStream is essentially a sliding window on all photos that you have taken). Any photo that is uploaded to PhotoStream will also be automatically downloaded to any of your devices that are signed to iCloud (including Windows computers). So, if I take a photo with my iPhone, it is stored on the iPhone, uploaded to PhotoStream, then copied to my iPad, our MacBook, and our old laptop. This automatic uploading/downloading happens only when a device/computer is on wifi. PhotoStream can be a bit annoying because it is easy to mistakenly think that ALL of your photos are being saved in the cloud when only the most recent subset (30 days or 1000 photos) are.
3. iCloud Drive - This is new with iOS 8 and OS/X Yosemite. This is essentially similar to GoogleDrive, Amazon CloudDrive, DropBox, etc. This is true "permanent" cloud storage. If you enable iCloud Drive, all photos will be uploaded to the cloud for "permanent" storage vs the more temporal PhotoStream. You can share photos/documents/whatever among whatever devices/computers are signed into iCloud Drive.
4. Any other "cloud" storage app (eg DropBox). I don't know about other cloud storage providers, but DropBox integrates with iPhone such that all photos that you take can (if you enable it) be uploaded to your DropBox. From there you can access it from any other computer/device with access to your DropBox.

That is a pretty longwinded way of saying that, generally, there is no requirement to use iTunes on a computer to pull photos from or push photos to an iPhone or iPad. I can take a photo right now and when I get home (and back on our wifi) and turn on my iPad, MacBook, or Windows laptop, the photo will be there.
curmudgeon
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by curmudgeon »

I held out on smartphones for a long time, because I didn't like the extra costs associated with them (and didn't expect to get a ton of use out of them). Recently the cost/value seems to be better (and our somewhat messy family plan got simpler), so I've made the shift.

Biggest factor in my mind was to not get tied to something long-term in case I found I didn't like it. I liked the idea of Republic wireless, but a family member went that way, and the result really turned us off - really bad voice quality on most calls (might be able to be solved by a better home router), and poor away-from-home coverage due to limited Sprint network.

Consumer Cellular looks like a good option, but I decided I wanted one of the Nokia windows phones, and they weren't directly available there. I ended up going with the AT&T GoPhone option, picked the phone (Nokia Lumia 635) up at a local Target store for $100. No muss, no fuss (except for the nuisance of porting my number over from Verizon). The phone has some decent well-integrated apps, and the GPS allows me to pre-load the maps while on wi-fi, so they don't use up cell data. I can get the phone unlocked after six months, and I may take it to Consumer Cellular at that time, as they have a lower cost option for us when using two phones with them. For now, I use the phone like Republic wireless, but with AT&T network instead of Sprint; I use data only on wifi. Cost is $25/mo for 250 minutes and lots of texts.
The Wizard
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by The Wizard »

bungalow10 wrote:
Interesting. I don't know a single person who has switched from Android to Iphone, but I know the other way around. My office used to be about 100% Iphone because our IT only supported integrating our email on IPhone.
I think you mean Blackberry.
That's the device that corporate email prefers...
Attempted new signature...
FedGuy
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by FedGuy »

I absolutely agree with those who suggest that, if going the Android route, you stay as close to the stock version as possible. Years ago, I was infuriated with a Samsung-manufactured phone I used with Virgin Mobile that came loaded with bloatware that couldn't be deleted; I eventually had to delete several of my favorite apps because the pre-installed apps that I didn't want and never used kept auto-installing updates that made them take up more and more space until I ultimately ran out of memory. I switched to a Samsung Galaxy Nexus (informally, a "Nexus 3") and loved it.

I still have my Galaxy Nexus, but the battery is going and I figured it's time for an upgrade. For months, I've been holding out for the Nexus 6, since I pretty much refuse to risk getting stuck with bloatware at this point. I spent the last two weeks or so checking the tech blogs several times a day, waiting for the Nexus 6 announcement. It came out two days ago, and I'm really disappointed in the $650 price. I'm now scrambling to find an alternative before my Nexus 3 battery finally dies. The Nexus 5 will apparently continue to be offered, but it looks like the price has increased to around $450, which surprised me for a soon-to-be superseded model.

The search for alternatives continues.
nordlead
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by nordlead »

FedGuy wrote:I still have my Galaxy Nexus, but the battery is going and I figured it's time for an upgrade. For months, I've been holding out for the Nexus 6, since I pretty much refuse to risk getting stuck with bloatware at this point. I spent the last two weeks or so checking the tech blogs several times a day, waiting for the Nexus 6 announcement. It came out two days ago, and I'm really disappointed in the $650 price. I'm now scrambling to find an alternative before my Nexus 3 battery finally dies. The Nexus 5 will apparently continue to be offered, but it looks like the price has increased to around $450, which surprised me for a soon-to-be superseded model.

The search for alternatives continues.
If anyone asks more than MSRP, just buy it from play.google.com. The Nexus 5 is always $350 at the play store, and often sold for $50-100 more elsewhere.

As for the Nexus 6, it fell victim to the higher resolution and larger screen size fad, so that display probably spiked the costs for very little benefit (the N6 is 493ppi, where as the N5 is 445ppi, I'm not sure why they felt the need to increase the ppi). A shame really. Granted, $650 is a good $100-200 cheaper than you would pay for an equivalent 6" phone. The Galaxy Note 4 is a 5.7" screen and costs $825 off contract on Amazon.
FedGuy
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by FedGuy »

nordlead wrote:If anyone asks more than MSRP, just buy it from play.google.com. The Nexus 5 is always $350 at the play store, and often sold for $50-100 more elsewhere.
Thanks, Nordlead. One of the first things I did upon learning the price of the Nexus 6 was to head to the Play Store to try to buy the Nexus 5. It's out of stock (well, they have red, but I just can't pull that off). It's unclear how long it will be until they restock, and I was concerned that they intentionally let the inventory run out to try to push people to the 6.
nordlead wrote:As for the Nexus 6, it fell victim to the higher resolution and larger screen size fad, so that display probably spiked the costs for very little benefit (the N6 is 493ppi, where as the N5 is 445ppi, I'm not sure why they felt the need to increase the ppi). A shame really. Granted, $650 is a good $100-200 cheaper than you would pay for an equivalent 6" phone. The Galaxy Note 4 is a 5.7" screen and costs $825 off contract on Amazon.
Agreed, but I think most people generally considered affordability to be one of the main attributes of the Nexus line. I don't think a lot of Nexus users were demanding an enormous, top of the line phone. Maybe Google is pursuing a different segment of the market now.
Browser
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by Browser »

Moto-X. A perfect sized phone. Looked at the new iPhone 6. It has the same sized screen as Moto, but it's dimensions are too long and narrow. I think they dropped the ball on that one. Android has caught up and passed. Apple has seen it's day, but it was a great day while it lasted.
We don't know where we are, or where we're going -- but we're making good time.
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magellan
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by magellan »

One consideration if you plan to keep the phone for longer than 2-3 years is whether the battery is replaceable. For users looking for a longer replacement cycle, a nonreplaceable battery will likely be the weak link.

I have a MyTouch 4G and the battery died after 2 years. The replacement cost $15 and so far I've gotten an extra year and a half out of the phone.

With a phone like the Moto X (which does seem excellent, btw), battery replacement runs around $100 or so and requires you to send the phone in, unless you're very handy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lEuVmsiBRk

Again, this is only a big deal if you hope to be on a 3-5 year replacement cycle instead of the more typical 2-3 year cycle.
Browser
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by Browser »

magellan wrote:One consideration if you plan to keep the phone for longer than 2-3 years is whether the battery is replaceable. For users looking for a longer replacement cycle, a nonreplaceable battery will likely be the weak link.

I have a MyTouch 4G and the battery died after 2 years. The replacement cost $15 and so far I've gotten an extra year and a half out of the phone.

With a phone like the Moto X (which does seem excellent, btw), battery replacement runs around $100 or so and requires you to send the phone in, unless you're very handy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lEuVmsiBRk

Again, this is only a big deal if you hope to be on a 3-5 year replacement cycle instead of the more typical 2-3 year cycle.
Trouble is, the number of phones with replaceable batteries you can count on the fingers of one hand.
We don't know where we are, or where we're going -- but we're making good time.
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TX_TURTLE
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by TX_TURTLE »

Riversider wrote:Samsung S4/S5 vs. Samsung Note3/4 vs. Apple iphones vs. Motos vs. anything else? Which smartphone(s) do Bogleheads generally prefer? Does it trend any which way? Does it matter? Ready to dump cheap ATT basic phone and wade into the world of "smart"; I've read everything there is on the Web and seeking additional input if any. Thanks for any thoughts/observations. Perhaps those who have had both (Apple AND Android) might have helpful advice? Also curious if anybody has just bought "too much phone" and would do it differently, and why? -- Riversider
As other posters have mentioned, Android seems the most 'Boglehead-friendly' option. In my household we have two iPhones (wife and son) and two Android smartphones (Google Nexus devices for other son and myself). They are just as good. However, Apple is 'disabling' features in older iPhones to pressure people to upgrade. Specifically, WiFi calling (ability to route calls through WiFi network when there is no signal - available through T-Mobile). This feature was made available in IOS 8, but is only enabled on iPhones newer than the iPhone 5 (what wife has). AFAIK this doesn't have any technical justification (iPhone 5C, with same hardware as iPhone 5, is supported). This seems to be 'programmed obsolescence' very profitable for Apple. As these technologies mature (the HW is 'fast enough' to support the newer SW, no compelling reason to upgrade every other year), it may be safer to stick with Android.
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Ged
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by Ged »

magellan wrote:One consideration if you plan to keep the phone for longer than 2-3 years is whether the battery is replaceable. For users looking for a longer replacement cycle, a nonreplaceable battery will likely be the weak link.
Non-replaceable batteries are actually often replaceable if your computer-fu is strong. I have a Nexus 4 which has a supposedly non-replaceable battery which is actually not particularly hard to replace compared to say replacing a fan on a laptop.
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magellan
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by magellan »

Ged wrote:Non-replaceable batteries are actually often replaceable if your computer-fu is strong. I have a Nexus 4 which has a supposedly non-replaceable battery which is actually not particularly hard to replace compared to say replacing a fan on a laptop.
Good point. Compared to the Moto X, the Nexus 4 seems a bit less tricky:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oJi3kIy8gU

The Nexus 5 may be a little more involved, but I suppose not too bad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSGNUrpwIno

So battery replacement on these nonreplaceable devices is definitely doable, but probably not for the faint of heart.
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Hayden
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by Hayden »

My eyes are failing so I went with the Samsung Note. I love the large screen size and will never go back to a tiny phone. I read on it and use it as a replacement for my iPad when I'm away from home. I couldn't do that with a small phone.
sls239
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by sls239 »

The Samsung Ativ (Windows phone) has a replaceable battery and is cheap.

We did Windows phones because my spouse's work uses an exchange server so having Outlook on the phone is more convenient.

I have to say I honestly don't get all the fuss about Apple and Android, but perhaps I just don't know what I'm missing.
tran_man007
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by tran_man007 »

I fall into the iPhone camp because things just seem to work better globally. A couple of things to think about:

-Speed: Many folks argue that iPhones get slower with upgrades - I totally agree. But how many Android devices that are 3 years old are supported by Kitkat (Android 4.4)? You actually don't have to upgrade your iPhone 4S to the iOS 8 if you don't want to, but it's nice to have as an option.

-Security/Malware: a lot of the viruses/malware out there in the mobile phone world is in Android.

-Privacy: Google makes money off of monitoring our usage and selling anonymous user information to advertisers. Apple's not perfect, but at least they make the impression that it keeps things private. iMessage has end-to-end user encryption and iOS has had full disk encryption for a couple of versions now. Android L will finally have full disk encryption be the default option.

I would vote for an iPhone, but if you're going to go with an Android - get a Nexus as it can get security and OS updates expediently without needing to get slowed by manufacturer or carrier testing. Or heck, try a Windows Mobile!

tran_man
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6miths
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by 6miths »

We have 3 BlackBerry phones and 3 android phones (motorola razr HDs). No iPhones. My wife and I have Blackberry due to work and my 20 year old daughter has refused to give her BlackBerry up which I find amusing. I wasn't impressed with the new BlackBerry phones but the old ones have always been great for e-mail, security and have been bulletproof. Not so good for browsing. The 3 other kids all very much like their androids and they have been very robust (the phones!). I am about to upgrade and since I have recently retired I don't feel the need for the BlackBerry anymore and have to decide whether to go iPhone or Android. We have transitioned to Apple products over the last 6 years so I am leaning that way but have been concerned that iPhones have a reputation for being fragile.
'It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so!' Mark Twain
nordlead
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by nordlead »

tran_man007 wrote:-Speed: Many folks argue that iPhones get slower with upgrades - I totally agree. But how many Android devices that are 3 years old are supported by Kitkat (Android 4.4)? You actually don't have to upgrade your iPhone 4S to the iOS 8 if you don't want to, but it's nice to have as an option.
If you aren't afraid to get your hands a tiny bit dirty, a lot of 3 year old phones are able to run KitKat. CyanogenMod is probably the largest Android alternative around and they support hundreds of devices with CM11, which is based off of Android 4.4. Pretty much every device they support has step-by-step instructions on how to install CyanogenMod. Some devices are super easy to update, others are a bit trickier, and more popular devices have software built for them to make it even easier (just click 1-2 buttons). Once you get CM running, you can do OTA updates to keep up to date. You also retain the option of going back to whatever OS you want.

I've even seen ports of stock Android 4.4 to old phones, but those you have to manually update every time.
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SpringMan
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by SpringMan »

I probably should not comment based on my phone being a flip phone with Page Plus costing $10.75 every 120 days. I have two adult children, both are electrical engineers. One has Apple only products, iMac, Macbook pro, iPad, and iPhone 6. He is very happy with his hardware but not so much with his service provider's bill. He likes the all Apple ecosystem The other one is a customer of Republic Wireless, a Moto-x user. He is happy with both his hardware and his bill, $29 per mo. tax included, 3G only. His computers are Windows machines.

Not mentioned yet in this thread is the possibility of Windows Phones. There are some real nice ones out there. Maybe there are not enough apps yet available on Microsoft store.
Best Wishes, SpringMan
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Toons
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Re: Smartphone questions

Post by Toons »

FYI:Upgraded the wifes phone from an LG that was also with StraightTalk to this Ultimate 2-3g(1.2ghz dual core) priced @129.00 So far it has surpassed our expectations in all areas of operation.Not a "high end"phone but reasonably priced,consider a very good value. :happy

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