Possible Uninsured Motorist accident - UPDATE

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investingdad
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Possible Uninsured Motorist accident - UPDATE

Post by investingdad »

I'd appreciate some guidance on first steps on an incident involving my wife.

She was stopped in traffic and rear-ended by another driver. Damage was minor at first glance but we know how expensive these repairs become. Anyway, my wife called the police, police showed up, and she was given a copy of their report before leaving the scene. Other driver was cited for following too closely, or some such thing. The driver did not have a copy of her license but that was resolved. The insurance is where we now have a potential problem.

The other driver gave a copy of the insurance to the police. Police noted the policy number with no issues.

My wife has contacted the other party's insurance company who advised that the policy was recently cancelled. My wife called the state police back to check on what their records show. State Police advised they would send us in the mail the phone number of the other person and also email the officer that was at the scene about the insurance problem since the other driver will still have to make a court appearance.

It seems that the insurance policy was in the other driver's parents' names. I did a check on Whitepages and found and verified the other driver's name and parents' address as legit.

Right now my wife is checking with our own insurance provider (we have a $1000 deductible) on uninsured and underinsured motorists.

This is what I know right now.

I *think* the worst case is we have to go through our insurance and are out the deductible in some way. I would opt to take legal action against the other driver first. But before we get ahead of ourselves, I'd like to ask for some guidance on what steps I should be taking before I:

a) get our attorney involved
b) contact the other party or her parents and mention legal action

Appreciate the collective wisdom!
Last edited by investingdad on Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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climber2020
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by climber2020 »

I was hit 2 years ago by an uninsured driver who ran a red light.

My uninsured motorist coverage paid for everything with no deductible. My rental car coverage ran out after a month, so I initially had to pay out of pocket for the final week of the 5 total weeks I was without my car, but I eventually got reimbursed for that cost as well (it was also covered under the uninsured motorist coverage since, had the other driver had insurance, that company would have paid for entire period of my rental car).

My insurance company eventually went after the other guy in litigation to get back the $10,000 it cost to fix my car. Never had to get an attorney involved; the insurance company took care of everything.
Rupert
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by Rupert »

Possibly the driver had an old insurance card and the parents recently switched insurance companies? If I were you, I'd let my insurance company handle it. I would not contact the other party directly, as anything you say to them could come back to bite you later. They might, for example, claim you said something that you didn't actually say. Your insurance company will record their interview of them.
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investingdad
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by investingdad »

In this case the insurance company is going to be of little help.

With a $1000 deductible, unless the total damage is more than perhaps $2000...they likely won't go after the person. I need to get an estimate, but I'm guessing the damage won't be much over the deductible. I'm going to have to go this one on our own.

And yes, I spoke to the insurance company already and verified this.
adamthesmythe
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by adamthesmythe »

never mind
Last edited by adamthesmythe on Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dtort
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by Dtort »

We had a similar situation a year ago. "John Smith" ran a red light and t-boned us. "Mom Smith" brought the insurance card form home, indicating that their insurance would cover everything, including our rental. So we started the repair process while waiting for the two insurance companies to work it out. No worries, as the police report clearly marked the other driver as at-fault.
...(time passes)....
Only we found out much later that "John Smith" was "John Smith, Jr." and therefore uninsured; he had shown the officer his Dad's card. His insurance company (a sketchy outfit themselves, IMHO) indicated that the Smith family had dodged all attempts to communicate with them. So we were able to get much of our deductible back using our uninsured motorist coverage.
My advice? Let your insurance company handle all communications. They do this for a living and there's little that they haven't seen before.
To my surprise, though it took a year, our insurance company eventually ran the Smiths to ground and got them to pay for the damages. If you just HAVE to get a lawyer involved, the police report (we had to buy it) will have everything you need in it. In our case, after two weeks, it was available online.
Secondary bit of advice - carry rental coverage. It's cheap, and in a case like mine, it would have saved us the cost of the rental.
(Too bad he wasn't really named John Smith - "T-boned by a TARDIS" has a nice sound to it.)
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celia
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by celia »

Let your insurance company handle this. They are the experts on this and know what to say and who to contact.

If you are covered for uninsured motorist, the insurance company will waive the deductible (pay it for you) after they verify the other party is not insured. If they are insured, their insurance should pay for everything.
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pshonore
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by pshonore »

One suggestion; tell us what state you're in, since insurance policies,coverages and regulations vary WIDELY by state. What is true in one may not be true in another. In some states uninsured motorist coverage may cover damage to your vehicle, in others it may only cover bodily injury.
Topic Author
investingdad
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by investingdad »

I'm in PA. I think it's bodily injury only, not vehicle damage.

Even though we have uninsured motorist coverage, the insurance company has told me that with a $1000 deductible they will ONLY go after the other motorist if it's significantly more than $1000. My guess is that the damage (rear bumper) is not going to be much more than $1000.

This is my point. If I want the deductible back and the other person is not insured, I will NOT be able to rely on my insurance company. So the advice to "let the insurance company handle it" is not going to work for me here. They already told me that I will need to pursue this in small claims court.
Random Poster
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by Random Poster »

investingdad wrote:I'm in PA. I think it's bodily injury only, not vehicle damage.

Even though we have uninsured motorist coverage, the insurance company has told me that with a $1000 deductible they will ONLY go after the other motorist if it's significantly more than $1000. My guess is that the damage (rear bumper) is not going to be much more than $1000.

This is my point. If I want the deductible back and the other person is not insured, I will NOT be able to rely on my insurance company. So the advice to "let the insurance company handle it" is not going to work for me here. They already told me that I will need to pursue this in small claims court.
I guess I don't fully understand why your insurance company's obligations is dependent upon the value of your claim in excess of your deductible. If your insurance company doesn't wish to pursue the other motorist, that is certainly their decision, but that decision shouldn't (in my uneducated view) affect whatever rights you have and whatever obligations your insurance company has under your insurance policy. So if you would get your deductible back due to a $10K claim made under the uninsured motorist coverage, why wouldn't you get it back due to a $2K claim?

Perhaps you will need to pursue this in small claims court....but your case will be against your insurance company.
pshonore
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by pshonore »

Sounds like in PA, this is collision coverage. They'll pay for damage minus his deductible ($1K) which is what the contract requires.
Calm Man
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by Calm Man »

I hate when these things happen to good people. Off topic slightly is that I recently had an injury to my car's body when not in it. I have a$1000 deductible. The car is in excellent shape with only 75K miles but is 10 years old. The body shop of course told me it was something like $1500 as they have to do this and that, replace everything, paint to the correct color, etc. I happened to pass a local body shop on the way home. He said for $250 he thought they could make it rather acceptable. It was. It is not perfect. But quite good. Cars get dented quite frequently in the Northeast !!
furwut
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by furwut »

Sounds like you only have Uninsured Motorist Bodily Injury (UMBI) coverage and NOT Uninsured Motorist Property Damage (UMPD) coverage. I don't believe either of these coverages are sold with deductibles so if you had UMPD it would cover you starting with the first dollar of loss.
http://www.thetruthaboutinsurance.com/u ... ty-damage/

If you don't have UMPD then the loss can be covered by your Collision coverage - which is, I think, where the $1000 deductible comes from. Hopefully they turn out to be insured and you won't be out anything. But if not ask your insurer what you should do to go about getting the deductible back. If they aren't going to pursue it on your behalf then small claims court?

EDIT - I take some of this back - UMPD can be sold with a deductible.
Topic Author
investingdad
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by investingdad »

Our policy includes coverage for uninsured and underinsured motorist BODILY injury. Since we do not have (and I'm not even sure it's an option in PA) coverage for physical damage to the car due to under or uninsured motorists, the collision deductible applies.

This means if we have a problem, we're going to have to go the route of small claims court.

Which is what I suspected and would appreciate any input on.
kenner
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by kenner »

You might want to check here:

http://www.smallclaims.com/?cat=41

Also, it seems important to get some solid estimates as to total repair costs, loss of use of your vehicle (i.e., while it's at the repair shop), and the value of any other losses PA law may entle you to.
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bottlecap
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by bottlecap »

Sorry, Dad, but if this person doesn't had insurance, they probably don't have assets. A judgment against them will mean nothing. Even if they had some assets, you will have to spend a lot of money and time trying to enforce the judgment, with little chance of real success. Judgments only weigh on people who care about their finances and credit and, generally, people who don't have car insurance don't care.

I know you're mad now, but do a little research as to what it takes to enforce a judgment in your state before filing.

JT
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deanbrew
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by deanbrew »

I also live in PA, and my wife was hit while sitting still at a stop sign two years ago. The other (at-fault) driver had insurance, but he only had the state minimum and didn't have enough to cover the major damage to my wife's car and another vehicle that was damaged. In our case, we received full value for my wife's car, and we did not have to pay our $1,000 deductible. Again, we got full payment from our uninsured/underinsured coverage. But our policy shows we have uninsured/underinsured coverage for both bodily injury ($300k) and property damage ($100k). Sounds like you don't have the property damage coverage, but it is available in PA, as we have it.

For the record, PA does not have small claims court, at least not by that name. We have magisterial district courts, which handle traffic violations, summary offenses and the like, as well as lawsuit claims under $8,000. There are numerous magisterial districts within each county, so you need to figure out which is pertinent for where the accident happened or where the other party lives (not sure which one would apply). You can appear without an attorney in magistrate court. Having said all of that, you will spend time and money to try and recover $1,000. I have no idea how much it costs to file suit. Even if you are awarded, I am skeptical how much you will ever get back from the other party, but I guess the court can garnish wages and such.
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kenner
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by kenner »

Still seems it's worth a try to send a demand/notice letter jointly addressed to other driver AND to his parents (perhaps addressed as "DriverX c/o Mom and Dad". They might want to avoid litigation - and it's still possible that parents insurance may cover son for this crash.
Topic Author
investingdad
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by investingdad »

I think at this point we need to either lower the deductible on Collission or add the Property Damage for under/un insured motorist coverage.

The other driver, if they really did give false information to us and were not insured, also gave it to the State Police who responded.

Yes, I'm familiar with Magisterial District courts so I can research that if needed.

My wife has already drafted a letter and is dropping it into the mail today. The person is in their 20s and appears to live with her parents. Next step will be to contact the parents if she doesn't respond or give proper insurance information and advise we will take legal action if needed, naming both parties since the insurance policy was in her parents' names.
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munemaker
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by munemaker »

Aside from all the other good advice on here, I would notify PENDOT and the PA State Police that this person is driving without the state mandated insurance. I am pretty sure they will pull the operator's license.
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investingdad
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by investingdad »

munemaker wrote:Aside from all the other good advice on here, I would notify PENDOT and the PA State Police that this person is driving without the state mandated insurance. I am pretty sure they will pull the operator's license.
When my wife called the State Police to ger the other driver's phone number she told them that the Insurance company was reporting the policy to have been cancelled. They passed that info along to the responding officer.

We may or may not be made whole at some point, but the other person may have bigger issues to deal with.
Quickfoot
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by Quickfoot »

Appreciate the collective wisdom!
It's more than likely going to be cheaper to pay the $1,000 than have your attorney go after the other driver. Retainer / getting started alone is going to be several thousand and even if you get a judgment it is pretty likely they wont pay. If there's no severe bodily injury I personally wouldn't even consider hiring an attorney.

This also brings up the deductible saving you money situation. The premium difference between $500 and $1000 deductible is often negligible (for us it's about $40 a year). In our case it would take 12.5 years of not needing to use the coverage (extremely unlikely) to making a $1,000 deductible worth it so we maintain a $500 deductible.
I am pretty sure they will pull the operator's license.
They probably will and the person will probably drive anyway. If they are comfortable driving without insurance they are more than likely comfortable driving without a license. In our state you don't even start serving jail time until the second time you are caught driving without privileges, then it starts getting serious. Second time you serve 2 days minimum, third time 20 days minimum, etc.
We may or may not be made whole at some point
More than likely your insurance will wind up paying to fix your car so technically you'll be whole but I wouldn't count on getting the $1,000 back. This is why uninsured and under-insured insurance is so important and usually required.
Last edited by Quickfoot on Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:32 am, edited 3 times in total.
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mojave
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by mojave »

Rear end collisions are expensive - I know because my husband was just rear ended twice in a one month period! Hopefully this may help you gauge.

His beast truck was the second vehicle rear-ended, it was a 3 car pile up and my husband also hit someone in front of him. His front metal bumper had a ding, and the rear bumper was a bit more damaged but it was all cosmetic. ~$3k quote.

The first rear end was in his commuter car, a Hyundai Elantra. We're still waiting to get the quote on that (insurance had to chase after this guy, who actually never ended up contacting them...) but are expecting it to be at least $5k. The trunk, rear bumper and who knows what else will need to be completely replaced.

One of my husband's aunts was rear ended in a nearly brand new car, it was a $11k fix. This was a multi car pile-up, 4 or 5, and his aunt was the initial hit.
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hand
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by hand »

While I understand the arguments that it is likely cost effective in the short run to pay the $1k deductible vs. trying to recover, and also low likelihood of recovering if perpetrator is truly indigent, I'm surprised at the lack of focus on the longer term / societal impacts of pursuing damages vs. writing off the debt.

If OP does not attempt to collect, there is no incentive for the perpetrator or others like them to obtain proper insurance, and the likelihood of a future accident with an uninsured motorist goes up for the OP and the rest of society.
Last edited by hand on Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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investingdad
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by investingdad »

Just to put this to rest...I asked if non-insured or under-insured coverage is available for physical damage. It is NOT in PA per my insurance provider (Erie Insurance Exchange). It's only availabe for bodily injury. Otherwise it falls to Collision less deductible. Perhaps there was at one time and people are grandfathered in on their coverage. But I never had this on my policy in 25 years of driving, just the bodily harm which is stacked across all three vehicles.

I've already changed the deductible to $500 rather than $1000 as of this morning. It's about $125 per year more for the two cars in question.

My wife sent the letter to the person this morning by registered mail. We'll give them a day or two to respond. Next letter goes to the parents. Proactively we're getting an estimate and will go through our own Insurance to get things fixed. If the person isn't covered and they're not willing to pay us what we're out, we'll see about Magisterial District court. I won't hire an attorney, we have the State Police report, my wife took pictures at the scene, and I don't mind going to court to make the person's life difficult.
Quickfoot
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by Quickfoot »

The societal answer is jail time for being caught when driving without privileges and revoking driving privileges for not having insurance. The problem is driving without privileges is a minor crime and not likely to be aggressively prosecuted because of lack of resources and low budgets, especially if it's a first offense the offender is going to plea out.

Financially it does not make sense to pay an attorney 5K+ to get a $1,000 judgement + attorneys fees that in all likelihood will never be paid. If it does get paid it will probably be from intercepting tax returns which will take even more effort on the OP's part to file an intercept. The attorney gets paid from the OP up front so now it has cost him 6K or more to repair his vehicle and get a judgment that is worthless.

If the OP wants to go after the guy financially it's going to be far more reasonable to sue in small claims where there are no attorneys and he can get a judgment that way. It usually costs about $100 to sue in small claims so at most the OP would be out $100-$200 and his time to get a judgement. Small claims court can be scary to people but it's intended to be easy to do and accessible to the average person. I've got small claims judgments in my favor before and it was very easy. You can likely intercept tax returns with a small claims judgment as well.
Last edited by Quickfoot on Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Miakis
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by Miakis »

investingdad wrote:I don't mind going to court to make the person's life difficult.
If this is the case, then remember that you have the option to notify the police officer in question that the driver had no insurance. You may also consider showing up at her court date.
nelson1015
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by nelson1015 »

investingdad wrote:Just to put this to rest...I asked if non-insured or under-insured coverage is available for physical damage. It is NOT in PA per my insurance provider (Erie Insurance Exchange). It's only availabe for bodily injury. Otherwise it falls to Collision less deductible. Perhaps there was at one time and people are grandfathered in on their coverage. But I never had this on my policy in 25 years of driving, just the bodily harm which is stacked across all three vehicles.

I've already changed the deductible to $500 rather than $1000 as of this morning. It's about $125 per year more for the two cars in question.

My wife sent the letter to the person this morning by registered mail. We'll give them a day or two to respond. Next letter goes to the parents. Proactively we're getting an estimate and will go through our own Insurance to get things fixed. If the person isn't covered and they're not willing to pay us what we're out, we'll see about Magisterial District court. I won't hire an attorney, we have the State Police report, my wife took pictures at the scene, and I don't mind going to court to make the person's life difficult.
I've been working in the insurance industry my whole life. I'm in commercial insurance exclusively now but at one time I did work in Personal Auto insurance and PA was one of those states. Since it's been 10 years or so I'm not fully up to speed on PA insurance law. Many auto insurance coverage options vary state by state as auto insurance is handled on the state level. However, typically in most states most individuals carry UM (uninsured motorist coverage). Some states UM/UIM is combined as is UMBI and UMPD. IF UMPD is available in your state most people do not purchase it if they carry physical damage coverage (comp & collision) on that vehicle. As technically you are paying twice for the same thing. In fact most carrier's will not allow you to have both as legislation around stacking limits is tricky in court in some states.

A smart insurance agent would recommend that you carry UMPD on vehicles that you carry liability on and not carry it on vehicles you have full coverage on. Again, this is if it's available in your state. Additionally, typically if you have a NAF (not at fault) accident you report it to YOUR insurance company, they pay you, and then they subrogate the damages back to the 3rd party.

In your situation, since you have a deductible, are under the threshold or right at the threshold for that deductible and the third party has no insurance you are stuck with the bill for the damages. Although unfortunate I look at personal insurance as a way to cover and pay for catastrophic loss. Under 1k to me is somewhat inconsequential in the big scheme of things. If it was me I wouldn't drop my deductible down to $500 for this reason as well. At $125 per year in increased premiums that means you need to have a loss that hits the deductible less than every 4 years in order to make out ahead financially. To me having losses that often is unlikely and would also likely drive your costs even higher.

I'm also an advocate to carry liability and UM limits as high as possible. There are hidden discounts for purchasing higher limits with all companies. Typically people who purchase the highest limits have also the cheapest insurance as they are viewed as a "preferred" risk. IE you are more responsible because you purchase more insurance.

If you or anyone has any questions about insurance I'd be happy to try to help. I do not sell any insurance of any kind to the public.
Lynxville
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by Lynxville »

First off this has happened to me a few times over many years. The uninsured driver gets away with this all the time. If it was a large amount of damage, they just file bankruptcy. But if there is some bodily injury there on the hook until restitution is paid. That means no drivers license for life. But I think your wife has a stiff neck if you get my drift.
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investingdad
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by investingdad »

Lynxville wrote:First off this has happened to me a few times over many years. The uninsured driver gets away with this all the time. If it was a large amount of damage, they just file bankruptcy. But if there is some bodily injury there on the hook until restitution is paid. That means no drivers license for life. But I think your wife has a stiff neck if you get my drift.
I do, but I wouldn't go there. Some things are not worth it. The Universe has a tendency to level things out, and that's one side of an equation I'd rather not be on.
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deanbrew
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by deanbrew »

If it was me I wouldn't drop my deductible down to $500 for this reason as well. At $125 per year in increased premiums that means you need to have a loss that hits the deductible less than every 4 years in order to make out ahead financially. To me having losses that often is unlikely and would also likely drive your costs even higher.
That's what I was thinking, too. You will spend an extra $125 per year and only "make out" if you file a claim that nets you that extra $500 within four years. This time, it was an accident that wasn't your fault, so that shouldn't raise your rates. But what if a minor accident is your fault. Will having a $500 deductible make you submit a claim for an $800 or even a $1200 repair? If so, to make that $500 deductible "worthwhile", you will only be screwing yourself in the end by filing a claim and risking higher premiums.

I know, $1000 isn't chump change. And I know this incident is fresh in your mind, and stuck in your craw. But that extra $500 in coverage isn't worth the extra annual premium, IMO.
"The course of history shows that as the government grows, liberty decreases." Thomas Jefferson
scrabbler1
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by scrabbler1 »

I worked for 23 years in the actuarial part of the insurance industry, specializing in personal auto, but have been out of the field for the last 6 years. Pennsylvania the whole time was not one of the states which allowed UMPD to be sold. In fact, UMBI and UMBI became separate and optional after the state passed a huge insurance law change back in 1990 although most people kept buying one if not both coverages.

UMPD is a strange coverage as it varies a lot in the about half the states which do allow it. In some states it is mandatory, others optional but most people buy it, other states optional but most people don't buy it (it may be restricted to those who did not buy Collision). There are specific rules by state which control deductibles, minimum limits, optional higher limits, even based on where you live in the state. Some states allow different rates based on the type of car you own (i.e. Symbol groups). From an actuarial perspective, it was tough to group similar states together, most of them had some little quirk or special feature which put them into a category of their own. (I always liked working on states which had no UMPD, of course.)
furwut
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident

Post by furwut »

I know, $1000 isn't chump change. And I know this incident is fresh in your mind, and stuck in your craw. But that extra $500 in coverage isn't worth the extra annual premium, IMO.
Agree. Insurance is best for handling large unexpected expenses. Ask yourself if you are hurt by having suffered a $1000 loss or by the fact that the loss should be born by the at-fault party? If your wife had run into a tree would you still be questioning the $1000 deductible?
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investingdad
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident - UPDATE

Post by investingdad »

Just an update on our rearend collission issue.

So after getting the girl's phone number from the State Police, my wife called her and left a message. No response. We then sent a certified letter to the address listed on the insurance card she provided to us and the police (clearly her parents' address). No response. The State Police officer then contacted my wife to let her know that HE had left her a message and....no response. For the record, she's 23.

Now, for those of you in PA you may or may not be aware that the PA Court system has records online for court activity. It's very easy to look up Docket sheets on people for both closed and active cases.

I looked up the young lady on the PA Court system site to see if her citation had gone in yet. It had and is awaiting a response from her. I also did a search to see if she other appearances in court. Yep. Not one, not two, but three attempts to purchase alcohol with a fake ID. Two disordery conducts. And two signficant speeding fines (think 25 mph over). That's a lot for 23. I'm amazed that her parents still had her on their insurance policy, talk about enablers.

So at this point I decide to take a different approach. I called the phone number for the parents. Afterall, THEY were the ones that were listed as the holders of the insurance policy. My intent was to relay the situation, tell them that their daughter wasn't responding to our attempts to reach her, and all we wanted was the correct insurance information. I ended up getting ahold of her brother (sounded to be late teens) as the parents were both at work. I calmly relayed the info. He told me he wasn't aware that anything had happened and he sounded sincere. No problem, I told him, pass along the message for his parents to call me or my wife.

What happens next?

About 3 hours later my wife gets a TEXT from the girl saying she was sorry she hadn't followed up yet. She then gets a TEXT photo of the new insurance information. Not even adult enough to call and speak to my wife in person. Turns out the parents had changed insurance providers...and the new info is VALID. Parents never called us. Why not? I have to think the brother called them and they called her which is why she finally contacted my wife.

So, claim has been entered and we're good to go. As for the young lady's parents? Yeah, good luck with her...I recommend cutting the financial lifeline and letting her learn a little bit of life the hard way.
awval999
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident - UPDATE

Post by awval999 »

Of course she's going to text you. That way you are out of her hair and she doesn't have to have the awkwardness of speaking to you. Congrats on getting to the end of this sticky situation.
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deanbrew
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident - UPDATE

Post by deanbrew »

Glad you got a response. As for the parents not calling you back, perhaps they've taken the attitude that this is the daughter's situation to handle and they told her to take care of it. Which she seems to be doing by texting you the insurance information. I agree she should have called rather than or in addition to texting, but you got the process moving.
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kenner
Posts: 3128
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident - UPDATE

Post by kenner »

investingdad wrote:Just an update on our rearend collission issue.

So after getting the girl's phone number from the State Police, my wife called her and left a message. No response. We then sent a certified letter to the address listed on the insurance card she provided to us and the police (clearly her parents' address). No response.

Was the certified letter sent "Return Receipt Requested"?

The State Police officer then contacted my wife to let her know that HE had left her a message and....no response. For the record, she's 23.

Now, for those of you in PA you may or may not be aware that the PA Court system has records online for court activity. It's very easy to look up Docket sheets on people for both closed and active cases.

I looked up the young lady on the PA Court system site to see if her citation had gone in yet. It had and is awaiting a response from her. I also did a search to see if she other appearances in court. Yep. Not one, not two, but three attempts to purchase alcohol with a fake ID. Two disordery conducts. And two signficant speeding fines (think 25 mph over). That's a lot for 23. I'm amazed that her parents still had her on their insurance policy, talk about enablers.

It appears that PA may not have vicarious liablity that applies here but it also seems that parents may be liable for "negligent entrustment" or similar. Hard to believe parents were not aware of driver's "instability". Was there noticeable damage to the car driven by daughter that parents must have seen?

So at this point I decide to take a different approach. I called the phone number for the parents. Afterall, THEY were the ones that were listed as the holders of the insurance policy. My intent was to relay the situation, tell them that their daughter wasn't responding to our attempts to reach her, and all we wanted was the correct insurance information. I ended up getting ahold of her brother (sounded to be late teens) as the parents were both at work. I calmly relayed the info. He told me he wasn't aware that anything had happened and he sounded sincere. No problem, I told him, pass along the message for his parents to call me or my wife.

What happens next?

About 3 hours later my wife gets a TEXT from the girl saying she was sorry she hadn't followed up yet. She then gets a TEXT photo of the new insurance information. Not even adult enough to call and speak to my wife in person. Turns out the parents had changed insurance providers...and the new info is VALID. Parents never called us. Why not? I have to think the brother called them and they called her which is why she finally contacted my wife.

Sounds like the other parties subscribe to the philosophy of "ignore and it will go away".


So, claim has been entered

not sure what you mean by this - claim filed in court, with insurance, etc.?

and we're good to go. As for the young lady's parents? Yeah, good luck with her...I recommend cutting the financial lifeline and letting her learn a little bit of life the hard way.
Do you have written repair estimates for repairs to your vehicle, loss of use, etc.?

It is possible that if this accident is not reported to defendants insurance company, the insurance company could deny coverage for the crash.
Last edited by kenner on Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
livesoft
Posts: 86075
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:00 pm

Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident - UPDATE

Post by livesoft »

I just glanced through parts of this thread.

I have a 23-year old daughter in Pennsylvania. I have a son younger than that. Someone left voice mail on my answering machine claiming something about an accident which I just thought was a scam, so I ignored it. I have had a certified letter attempted to be delivered at my address, but since I wasn't home the letter ended up at the post office, but the note left by the postal employee was unclear about who the letter came from, so I never went to the post office to get the letter.

I do know that my daughter does things that she does not tell me about including an accident she had with my car.

Oh, my daughter and son only communicate with others by text, too.
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Topic Author
investingdad
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident - UPDATE

Post by investingdad »

kenner wrote:
investingdad wrote:Just an update on our rearend collission issue.

So after getting the girl's phone number from the State Police, my wife called her and left a message. No response. We then sent a certified letter to the address listed on the insurance card she provided to us and the police (clearly her parents' address). No response.

Was the certified letter sent "Return Receipt Requested"?

The State Police officer then contacted my wife to let her know that HE had left her a message and....no response. For the record, she's 23.

Now, for those of you in PA you may or may not be aware that the PA Court system has records online for court activity. It's very easy to look up Docket sheets on people for both closed and active cases.

I looked up the young lady on the PA Court system site to see if her citation had gone in yet. It had and is awaiting a response from her. I also did a search to see if she other appearances in court. Yep. Not one, not two, but three attempts to purchase alcohol with a fake ID. Two disordery conducts. And two signficant speeding fines (think 25 mph over). That's a lot for 23. I'm amazed that her parents still had her on their insurance policy, talk about enablers.

It appears that PA may not have vicarious liablity that applies here but it also seems that parents may be liable for "negligent entrustment" or similar. Hard to believe parents were not aware of driver's "instability". Was there noticeable damage to the car driven by daughter that parents must have seen?

So at this point I decide to take a different approach. I called the phone number for the parents. Afterall, THEY were the ones that were listed as the holders of the insurance policy. My intent was to relay the situation, tell them that their daughter wasn't responding to our attempts to reach her, and all we wanted was the correct insurance information. I ended up getting ahold of her brother (sounded to be late teens) as the parents were both at work. I calmly relayed the info. He told me he wasn't aware that anything had happened and he sounded sincere. No problem, I told him, pass along the message for his parents to call me or my wife.

What happens next?

About 3 hours later my wife gets a TEXT from the girl saying she was sorry she hadn't followed up yet. She then gets a TEXT photo of the new insurance information. Not even adult enough to call and speak to my wife in person. Turns out the parents had changed insurance providers...and the new info is VALID. Parents never called us. Why not? I have to think the brother called them and they called her which is why she finally contacted my wife.

Sounds like the other parties subscribe to the philosophy of "ignore and it will go away".


So, claim has been entered

not sure what you mean by this - claim filed in court, with insurance, etc.?

and we're good to go. As for the young lady's parents? Yeah, good luck with her...I recommend cutting the financial lifeline and letting her learn a little bit of life the hard way.
Do you have written repair estimates for repairs to your vehicle, loss of use, etc.?

It is possible that if this accident is not reported to defendants insurance company, the insurance company could deny coverage for the crash.

Claim with her insurance company was entered and accepted, which is all we cared about. There was obvious damage to the front of her car. It's a 2013 car, leased. She will have to repair it before it can be returned.

We do have an estimate of the repairs and the estimate exceeds our deductible. Her insurance company will be sending out an adjuster. We have rental insurance so a car will be made available to us at no cost one way or another.

As for the certified letter, we received confirmation that it was delivered successfully to the address (return receipt was requested).
kenner
Posts: 3128
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:45 am

Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident - UPDATE

Post by kenner »

Investingdad,

Sounds like you are covering all the bases.

Good luck.
RobInCT
Posts: 396
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:58 pm

Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident - UPDATE

Post by RobInCT »

I'd have texted, too. All you needed was the info, which you got from the text. Lots of crazy people out there. No need to engage in social contact with someone with whom you have an adversarial relationship, even if you were the who who "started it" by accidentally hitting someone else's car.

I'm glad everything appears to be working out.
Topic Author
investingdad
Posts: 2139
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:41 pm

Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident - UPDATE

Post by investingdad »

RobInCT wrote:I'd have texted, too. All you needed was the info, which you got from the text. Lots of crazy people out there. No need to engage in social contact with someone with whom you have an adversarial relationship, even if you were the who who "started it" by accidentally hitting someone else's car.

I'm glad everything appears to be working out.
Yes, I think it's behind us at this point. Just slightly annoying that this nitwit of a girl couldn't be bothered with following up to our voicemail and letter after giving us and the police incorrect information. Even if it was accidental (which it seems it was), a prompt reply that she got our message and was working to resolve the miscommunication about the insurance would have been enough.

But by ignoring us, the State Police re-engaged with her and I had to call her mom and dad as if I was dealing with a juvenile.

People create their own problems...Oh well. All's well that ends well.

Lesson? Call the police for every road incedent no matter how small and make sure you're covering your bases.
Jack FFR1846
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident - UPDATE

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

The state didn't know that the insurance changed? Really? I guess Massachusetts is more on top of things. Not only does the state get notified immediately of any insurance changes, insurance agents get nearly instant notification when something is learned by the state. I've gone to our registry (what the rest of the country calls DMV) to turn in license plates in order to take a sports car off the road for the winter. By the time I get home, I have a message from my insurance agent letting me know that they've been notified that I've turned in my plates and to call them to let them know what insurance I want while it's off the road.

(and for California people, the license plate does not stay with the vehicle. Before insurance can be cancelled, it has to be removed from the car and will never be used again.....in the spring, I would get a brand new plate and number)
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Phika
Posts: 22
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident - UPDATE

Post by Phika »

(and for California people, the license plate does not stay with the vehicle. Before insurance can be cancelled, it has to be removed from the car and will never be used again.....in the spring, I would get a brand new plate and number)
That's incorrect. I'm in California, and the license plate does stay with the vehicle. Otherwise, I would have had to get a new plate when I got my car. See http://www.dmv.org/ca-california/plate-surrender.php for more info.
placeholder
Posts: 8421
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident - UPDATE

Post by placeholder »

Phika wrote:That's incorrect. I'm in California, and the license plate does stay with the vehicle. Otherwise, I would have had to get a new plate when I got my car. See http://www.dmv.org/ca-california/plate-surrender.php for more info.
I believe Jack was informing you California people that it is different than what you are used to.
Phika
Posts: 22
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident - UPDATE

Post by Phika »

placeholder wrote:
Phika wrote:That's incorrect. I'm in California, and the license plate does stay with the vehicle. Otherwise, I would have had to get a new plate when I got my car. See http://www.dmv.org/ca-california/plate-surrender.php for more info.
I believe Jack was informing you California people that it is different than what you are used to.
Sorry, I misread that. In that case, is California the only state where the license plate follows the car?
scrabbler1
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Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident - UPDATE

Post by scrabbler1 »

When I bought new cars in 1992 and 2007, I traded in my old car each time. This enabled me to keep my existing license plate and saved me a few bucks. The salesman removed the plates from my trade-in and attached them to my new car after we completed all the paperwork. I am in New York.
tj
Posts: 9366
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Possible Uninsured Motorist accident - UPDATE

Post by tj »

Phika wrote:
placeholder wrote:
Phika wrote:That's incorrect. I'm in California, and the license plate does stay with the vehicle. Otherwise, I would have had to get a new plate when I got my car. See http://www.dmv.org/ca-california/plate-surrender.php for more info.
I believe Jack was informing you California people that it is different than what you are used to.
Sorry, I misread that. In that case, is California the only state where the license plate follows the car?

You can take your plate with you if you have a customized plate. Custom plate does not stay with the car.
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