Water Powered Sump-Pump Backups?

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davebo
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Water Powered Sump-Pump Backups?

Post by davebo »

The guy I bought my house from had a “Basement Watchdog” battery powered system. When I decided to replace my sump pump, I asked the guy if he could take a look at my unit and make sure it was still functioning ok. He said that he would, but the problem with battery backups is that most people don’t stay on top of them and find out the battery is dead when they need it…or the battery does not end up lasting very long.

He recommended using a water powered backup that doesn't rely on electricity or batteries. The upside is that it doesn’t need upkeep and will last for 15+ years, but the downside is there is a higher upfront cost and will waste water when in use. The guy said that the higher cost is mitigated by the fact that you don’t need to keep replacing batteries like with the normal backup units.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I have a finished basement so I’m very concerned about keeping it as dry as possible, but I don’t know anyone that has used a system like this. I was referred to this guy from a friend whose family has used him for years and he seems like a straight shooter, but surprised I would never have heard of this solution.
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jimb_fromATL
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Re: Water Powered Sump-Pump Backups?

Post by jimb_fromATL »

davebo wrote:The guy I bought my house from had a “Basement Watchdog” battery powered system. When I decided to replace my sump pump, I asked the guy if he could take a look at my unit and make sure it was still functioning ok. He said that he would, but the problem with battery backups is that most people don’t stay on top of them and find out the battery is dead when they need it…or the battery does not end up lasting very long.

He recommended using a water powered backup that doesn't rely on electricity or batteries. The upside is that it doesn’t need upkeep and will last for 15+ years, but the downside is there is a higher upfront cost and will waste water when in use. The guy said that the higher cost is mitigated by the fact that you don’t need to keep replacing batteries like with the normal backup units.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I have a finished basement so I’m very concerned about keeping it as dry as possible, but I don’t know anyone that has used a system like this. I was referred to this guy from a friend whose family has used him for years and he seems like a straight shooter, but surprised I would never have heard of this solution.
Once consideration is that you must be on municipal water for it to work at all. If you have a pump and well, when the power is off you won't have any water pressure either.

Plus, in cold weather with ice storms or during disasters like hurricanes when the electrical power is more likely to be off for prolonged periods of time, there's a chance your pipes might freeze ( or the municipal supply might be interrupted too in the case of hurricanes, etc) which would still result in having no sump pump. At least the battery operated one would give you a chance that it would still work.

It's not clear to me whether the water-powered pump is the only sump pump or is supplement to an electric pump. If it's the only pump, chances are the inefficiency of using so much municipal water would be pretty costly in the long run ... especially in municipalities like mine where the water usage also determines the charge for sewer usage ... which costs more per gallon than the water.

bjimb
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davebo
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Re: Water Powered Sump-Pump Backups?

Post by davebo »

jimb_fromATL wrote:
davebo wrote:The guy I bought my house from had a “Basement Watchdog” battery powered system. When I decided to replace my sump pump, I asked the guy if he could take a look at my unit and make sure it was still functioning ok. He said that he would, but the problem with battery backups is that most people don’t stay on top of them and find out the battery is dead when they need it…or the battery does not end up lasting very long.

He recommended using a water powered backup that doesn't rely on electricity or batteries. The upside is that it doesn’t need upkeep and will last for 15+ years, but the downside is there is a higher upfront cost and will waste water when in use. The guy said that the higher cost is mitigated by the fact that you don’t need to keep replacing batteries like with the normal backup units.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I have a finished basement so I’m very concerned about keeping it as dry as possible, but I don’t know anyone that has used a system like this. I was referred to this guy from a friend whose family has used him for years and he seems like a straight shooter, but surprised I would never have heard of this solution.
Once consideration is that you must be on municipal water for it to work at all. If you have a pump and well, when the power is off you won't have any water pressure either.

Plus, in cold weather with ice storms or during disasters like hurricanes when the electrical power is more likely to be off for prolonged periods of time, there's a chance your pipes might freeze ( or the municipal supply might be interrupted too in the case of hurricanes, etc) which would still result in having no sump pump. At least the battery operated one would give you a chance that it would still work.

It's not clear to me whether the water-powered pump is the only sump pump or is supplement to an electric pump. If it's the only pump, chances are the inefficiency of using so much municipal water would be pretty costly in the long run ... especially in municipalities like mine where the water usage also determines the charge for sewer usage ... which costs more per gallon than the water.

bjimb
I'm on municipal water so I should be good there. This would serve as a backup to my primary electric sump pump though.

My sewage is capped at $10/month so I don't really get dinged too bad on that end either.
mw1739
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Re: Water Powered Sump-Pump Backups?

Post by mw1739 »

I also have a Basement Watchdog with no problems so far (knock on wood). I've considered the water powered sump pump but so far have decided against it. I think a big factor is how long your power typically goes out. If your power goes out often and for extended periods I would consider it. My power goes out rarely and for less than 30 minutes.

Have you considered keeping the battery backup and buying a generator instead? I'm thinking of going that route for an additional backup option. You can get a generator for a lot cheaper than the water powered sump pump.
likegarden
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Re: Water Powered Sump-Pump Backups?

Post by likegarden »

Your municipal sewage dept. might forbid using a water powered backup sump pump discharging to the public sewer. In my town hooking up the drain side of the sump pump to municipal sewer is also forbidden.
I have a battery operated backup sump pump which I test once a month. I also have a fully charged backup battery for the backup battery.
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serbeer
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Re: Water Powered Sump-Pump Backups?

Post by serbeer »

My Basement Watchdog backup sump pump has self-diagnostic module that checks many things, including battery health and starts beeping when something is not right. I am on my 2nd battery now (in 11 years, and the first one was replaced when the Battery alarm was triggered, about 6-7 years into life of the pump). The self-diagnosting battery for it is not cheap, around $150 but the pump saved my butt more than ones (make sure to get black battery, not red, as red does not last long in poweroutage).

I would not replace functioning system with another one but would simply replace the battery that should be good for another 6 years or so.
ralph124cf
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Re: Water Powered Sump-Pump Backups?

Post by ralph124cf »

I had a Basement Watchdog backup. When my main pump froze a bearing while I was out of town, it tripped the circuit breaker that both it and the Basement Watchdog battery charger were plugged into. The backup pumped until the battery was exhausted, then the sump pit overflowed.

I now have added two twenty amp dedicated circuits, upgraded the main pump, put in an additional 2" discharge line, dug a second interconnected pit, put in an Aquanot battery powered backup pump, and also put in a water powered backup pump. Not cheap (about $5,000), but I really don't want another flood.

Ralph
tivattom
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Re: Water Powered Sump-Pump Backups?

Post by tivattom »

I have the Basepump water-powered sump pump. It saved my basement this summer when my electrical sump pump failed after many years of service. The Basepump acted as the main sump for about a week while I waited for the new pump to be delivered from Amazon. I didn't even notice a blip on my water/sewer bill.

I would very much recommend one.
North
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Re: Water Powered Sump-Pump Backups?

Post by North »

I had a BasePump water powered backup in my old house. One thing to keep in mind is this unit will not remove anywhere close to what you main pump will. My primary was a 50 GPM Little Giant and the BasePump would only do about 1/10th of that (depends on your household water pressure - mine was very good.)
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dratkinson
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Re: Water Powered Sump-Pump Backups?

Post by dratkinson »

Search for reviews on "Base Pump". Believe some here have used them. Other brands may also be available. Know nothing else about them. Don't appear to be that difficult to install for homeowner with copper pipe soldering skills.

basepump.com
d.r.a., not dr.a. | I'm a novice investor; you are forewarned.
ralph124cf
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Re: Water Powered Sump-Pump Backups?

Post by ralph124cf »

Depending on your water pressure and pipe size, would it be reasonable/feasible to install TWO water powered backup pumps? I am now really paranoid about sump pump failure/flooding.

Ralph
killjoy2012
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Re: Water Powered Sump-Pump Backups?

Post by killjoy2012 »

Davebo - your guy is very smart and his points are all valid. The biggest downside of the city water backup pump is that it costs a lot more to install vs. nothing... or a battery backup. But there's very little debate as to which is the best solution... just a matter of whether the increased cost is worth it to you.
Topic Author
davebo
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Re: Water Powered Sump-Pump Backups?

Post by davebo »

tivattom wrote:I have the Basepump water-powered sump pump. It saved my basement this summer when my electrical sump pump failed after many years of service. The Basepump acted as the main sump for about a week while I waited for the new pump to be delivered from Amazon. I didn't even notice a blip on my water/sewer bill.

I would very much recommend one.
Interesting. With all the talk about all the wasted water, the horror stories would have you believe the water bills would be huge in that case. Glad to hear that's not true. Hard to imagine since the water prices are relatively cheap.
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davebo
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Re: Water Powered Sump-Pump Backups?

Post by davebo »

mw1739 wrote:I also have a Basement Watchdog with no problems so far (knock on wood). I've considered the water powered sump pump but so far have decided against it. I think a big factor is how long your power typically goes out. If your power goes out often and for extended periods I would consider it. My power goes out rarely and for less than 30 minutes.

Have you considered keeping the battery backup and buying a generator instead? I'm thinking of going that route for an additional backup option. You can get a generator for a lot cheaper than the water powered sump pump.
The most my power has been out has been 4 days and that happened to be right after we moved in. Luckily, there was very little rain during that period and it happened to be just a gigantic wind storm that had a lot of trees down. But all in all, I'd say my power is very spotty...almost guaranteed that it will go out during a big storm, or at least flicker a bit.
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davebo
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Re: Water Powered Sump-Pump Backups?

Post by davebo »

killjoy2012 wrote:Davebo - your guy is very smart and his points are all valid. The biggest downside of the city water backup pump is that it costs a lot more to install vs. nothing... or a battery backup. But there's very little debate as to which is the best solution... just a matter of whether the increased cost is worth it to you.
Yeah, I hesitated with the cost but decided that it's probably worth it. This is our forever house and we have a very nice finished basement. I got a little water in the window well (that problem was fixed), but having water in your basement (even a small amount) was not fun and I don't wish to repeat the problem. We had so much rain this summer that I don't think I ever slept well when it was raining outside!
larryinnewyork
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Re: Water Powered Sump-Pump Backups?

Post by larryinnewyork »

The same people who prepare for Retirement are the ones who also prepare for Emergencies.

What I did is:
1) Made an Alarm (using pressure switch from washing machine) that will go off if water level in sump raises 2" above normal.
The 'alarm' will go off during a power outage AND pump malfunction.
2) Have three extra sump pumps sitting off to the side. They have the check valve & PVC pipe already installed.
It takes only a few minutes to replace.
3) I wired the sump pump onto a 'dedicated' 20 amp breaker.
On this line, I installed a 'switch', so I can stand on the stairs and shut power OFF to the pump.
This will prevent me from getting electrocuted.
4) I do have a portable generator with transfer switch.

You may want to consider a Whole House Generator.
This would automatically turn ON if your power goes out.
One popular manufacturer is Generac.

Also, check that your gutters 'downspouts' discharge the roof water far enough from the outside foundation.
To prepare for heavier rains, I recently replaced my downspouts. They were 2"x3" ...... Now are 3"x4"
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tractorguy
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Re: Water Powered Sump-Pump Backups?

Post by tractorguy »

The house I'm in had a Basement Watchdog when I bought it 5.5 years ago. The main pump will cycle every time we get a major thunderstorm. I think its run off the battery 3 times in the last 5 years. At least one of those times, the main pump didn't run because the switch for it malfunctioned. I replaced it the next day with one from the local big box store.

I have replaced the backup battery once (when the alarm told me it wasn't holding a charge). This also came from the big box store.

The backup battery is supposed to be good for several hours and the longest we've been without power has been only 2-3 hours so I'm not worried.

I also have added the basement flood option to my insurance which costs very little.

I don't think I'd invest another several K in an additional sump pump backup. Given my good experience so far with the system I have, I figure that insurance will cover the remaining risk.
Lorne
Malvern
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Re: Water Powered Sump-Pump Backups?

Post by Malvern »

I have a basepump too and it worked well this spring when we lost power for a day. It ran constantly for nearly 24 hours and I was surprised at how little our water bill increased. As another poster said, it was barely noticeable. I would definately recommend one.
bhsince87
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Re: Water Powered Sump-Pump Backups?

Post by bhsince87 »

davebo wrote:
Interesting. With all the talk about all the wasted water, the horror stories would have you believe the water bills would be huge in that case. Glad to hear that's not true. Hard to imagine since the water prices are relatively cheap.

Location, location, location. Water is certainly scarce in many areas. In others, there is often an overabundance.

I would expect that areas where sump pumps are needed would tend to fall in the latter category.
Time is what we want most, but what we use worst. William Penn
Levett
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Re: Water Powered Sump-Pump Backups?

Post by Levett »

Location: Michigan. Water powered backup: yes, absolutely.

You may find this video interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCUKvwNrdik

Lev
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