FIOS [versus cable]

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airahcaz
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FIOS [versus cable]

Post by airahcaz »

So for those of you who have or had FIOS, is it true you'll never go back to cable cause it is that much better and more reliable?

Are you paying a lot more or is it decent/similar pricing to cable?

Don't care much for TV programming, more so reliable and fast internet, but of course have "to get a package"
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course. (Plagiarized, but worth stealing)
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Epsilon Delta
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Re: FIOS

Post by Epsilon Delta »

In my experience both Verizon FiOS and Time Warner cable are fast enough and reliable enough. I will go back to cable if they happen to have a better deal when renewal comes up.

One problem about Verizon is their billing. I have a signed contract giving a price and FiOS keeps overcharging. I call and they try to get me to buy an upgrade. I go to their store and show them the contract and they agree to make an adjustment but it takes months to appear and is sometimes wrong. Judge Judy may be in our future if they can't get their act together.
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Rob5TCP
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Re: FIOS

Post by Rob5TCP »

I have FIOS and I am quite satisfied. However, RCN has made me an offer that would be $500-$600 less per year.
I have checked with several neighbors that have RCN and they seem reasonably satisfied. I checked download speeds
and they were only slightly slower than mine (several checks during different time periods).

So, I will be going back to cable; for the savings.
I asked FIOS to match and all they offered was $5 per month.
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Zabar
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Re: FIOS

Post by Zabar »

I've had FIOS in three locations (MA and VA) over the past six years, and love it. I'm about to move to California to a place where it's not (yet) available, so I'm going with cable--but month-to-month so that I can switch back as soon as possible.

The service has been very reliable. Internet throughput keeps improving. Downtime has been minimal. Yes, cable is a few dollars/month cheaper. So what?
FedGuy
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Re: FIOS

Post by FedGuy »

I switched from cable/Internet to FiOS in my old apartment, because FiOS was running a good deal and I was curious. Frankly, in terms of Internet, I didn't notice much of a difference. It felt about the same to me as the Internet I got through my cable company in terms of both speed and reliability. I was pretty ticked off when I found out that several TV programs I watched on channels that were not part of my FiOS package were blocked through the Internet (that is, I could go to the website of the channel I no longer got, and the website advertised the ability to watch the relevant program directly over the Internet, but to do so I had to enter my FiOS login information, and was blocked from watching the programs because the channel wasn't part of my package. If I had known I wouldn't be able to watch those shows through the Internet, I would have considered upgrading my package. Then again, those packages would have been more expensive, so I might have just stayed with my cable company).

I have moved to a new city, and my building doesn't have FiOS. I'm back to a (different) cable/Internet company. Again, I don't notice any difference in Internet speed or reliability. I'm glad to have my shows back, though.
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stickman731
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Re: FIOS

Post by stickman731 »

Switch to FIOS from comcast. No issues and I have noticed a difference in internet speed. Comcast always slowed at ~2pm - 9 pm. I always correlated with school getting out. No issues with FIOS.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: FIOS

Post by TomatoTomahto »

FIOS has been very reliable for me, and I've had it for years. Because of silly blackout rules that existed until a couple of years ago, I had concurrent Comcast and FIOS service during hockey season, and could directly compare HD pictures. Comcast looked okay until you compared it to FIOS on the same show; Comcast was obviously compressing the HD picture and FIOS wasn't (since it's fiber, they don't have to). I know you said TV programming is not important to you, but ...

I can't compare internet, but mine has been fast and reliable. They have just upgraded (for free) the upload speed to match the download speed. I don't think the internet has been out for more than a minute more than a handful of times over the 5+ years I've had it.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
Gropes & Ray
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Re: FIOS

Post by Gropes & Ray »

I did not notice the difference when I switched to FIOS. I did notice that my local sports channel and the history channel rarely came in with a good signal. I eventually dumped the TV package and went with a high quality antennae to get the local broadcast stations. I have discovered some new shows, and overall I spend less time watching TV. Also saved $90/month, but I will give some of that back when I have to pay for episodes of the Walking Dead this fall.
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airahcaz
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Re: FIOS

Post by airahcaz »

Gropes & Ray wrote:I did not notice the difference when I switched to FIOS. I did notice that my local sports channel and the history channel rarely came in with a good signal. I eventually dumped the TV package and went with a high quality antennae to get the local broadcast stations. I have discovered some new shows, and overall I spend less time watching TV. Also saved $90/month, but I will give some of that back when I have to pay for episodes of the Walking Dead this fall.
So do you just have internet? what speed? No phone in package? how much? :)
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JohnnyB
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Re: FIOS

Post by JohnnyB »

Switched to FIOS ~2 years ago because of cost (promotional 84/month triple play + $300 Visa card). I saw no real difference between FIOS and Comcast. When my promotional rate ends I will try to get FIOS to extend. If not, I will have no problem jumping back to Comcast to take advantage of their promotional rate. For me, it boils down to total cost.
Rl2
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Re: FIOS

Post by Rl2 »

The internet works great for me and I get 50mb up and down. However the TV's DVR interface is horrible.
izreel
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Re: FIOS

Post by izreel »

A few years ago I lived I had Fios when I lived closer to NYC. It was far superior to anything I've had. I now live in upstate NY and have TWC. I don't like it at all and can't wait until Fios is available in my area.
Gropes & Ray
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Re: FIOS

Post by Gropes & Ray »

airahcaz wrote:
Gropes & Ray wrote:I did not notice the difference when I switched to FIOS. I did notice that my local sports channel and the history channel rarely came in with a good signal. I eventually dumped the TV package and went with a high quality antennae to get the local broadcast stations. I have discovered some new shows, and overall I spend less time watching TV. Also saved $90/month, but I will give some of that back when I have to pay for episodes of the Walking Dead this fall.
So do you just have internet? what speed? No phone in package? how much? :)
Yes, I just have internet. It costs about $75/month. I don't know the speed, but it's fast enough for my purposes. I watch Netflix, Amazon Prime Videos and YouTube on my TV without issues. I think my wife streams music. The only shows we regularly watch are Downton Abbey and The Walking Dead, so I dropped the TV because I can buy TWD episodes the day after they air for about $4, and DA is free over the air. $4 each for 19 episodes of TWD is less than one month of my old HD package. Oh, I watch the Steelers too, but that's also free, and I don't really feel like discussing that today.
dolphinsaremammals
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Re: FIOS

Post by dolphinsaremammals »

Gropes & Ray wrote:
airahcaz wrote:
So do you just have internet? what speed? No phone in package? how much? :)
Yes, I just have internet. It costs about $75/month. I don't know the speed, but it's fast enough for my purposes. I watch Netflix, Amazon Prime Videos and YouTube on my TV without issues. I think my wife streams music. The only shows we regularly watch are Downton Abbey and The Walking Dead, so I dropped the TV because I can buy TWD episodes the day after they air for about $4, and DA is free over the air. $4 each for 19 episodes of TWD is less than one month of my old HD package. Oh, I watch the Steelers too, but that's also free, and I don't really feel like discussing that today.
I have Cox cable Internet only. It costs about $50 a month. The folks in my little community who have FIOS lost it during Sandy. Then Verizon kindly sent them a letter telling them how to restart their FIOS boxes. :shock:
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: FIOS

Post by TomatoTomahto »

dolphinsaremammals wrote:
Gropes & Ray wrote:
airahcaz wrote:
So do you just have internet? what speed? No phone in package? how much? :)
Yes, I just have internet. It costs about $75/month. I don't know the speed, but it's fast enough for my purposes. I watch Netflix, Amazon Prime Videos and YouTube on my TV without issues. I think my wife streams music. The only shows we regularly watch are Downton Abbey and The Walking Dead, so I dropped the TV because I can buy TWD episodes the day after they air for about $4, and DA is free over the air. $4 each for 19 episodes of TWD is less than one month of my old HD package. Oh, I watch the Steelers too, but that's also free, and I don't really feel like discussing that today.
I have Cox cable Internet only. It costs about $50 a month. The folks in my little community who have FIOS lost it during Sandy. Then Verizon kindly sent them a letter telling them how to restart their FIOS boxes. :shock:
The FIOS users around me kept service during Sandy, as long as they had power (or generator power to the FIOS battery backup box). We didn't have power, but the battery lasted for a few hours to power our "land line."
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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Re: FIOS

Post by crefwatch »

We also kept service during Sandy. But the FIOS TV isn't that good. There are video artifacts, loss of sound/video synch (fixed by Pause, then Play), and frozen frames during real-time video watching. Perhaps it's the obsolete DVR you get for the "free" deal. (Newer box has $50 +- one-time charge.) Note that you don't have copper dial tone once you have a FIOS box. They connect the household phone lines to terminals on the FIOS box, even if you don't choose their VOIP product, which has more features, but is impossible to make a service call to a human about.

Verizon tried to create a utility tariff that you could never return to copper dial tone once you bought FIOS. But I think it was beaten back in New Jersey - this is regulated state-by-state. We've never had "cable" so I can't compare it. It is a real virtue (I mean for us consumers) to have Comcast and Verizon competing tooth-and-nail, a rare form of capitalism today! But, the day my FIOS box was installed (2012), the Verizon tech told me he couldn't connect his ground wire to my plumbing: (He said ... ) Comcast had been publicly accusing Verizon of unsafe installation practices. I had to drive a 10' ground rod while he did the pole work .... talk about do-it-yourself!
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: FIOS

Post by TomatoTomahto »

crefwatch wrote:We also kept service during Sandy. But the FIOS TV isn't that good. There are video artifacts, loss of sound/video synch (fixed by Pause, then Play), and frozen frames during real-time video watching. Perhaps it's the obsolete DVR you get for the "free" deal.
That doesn't sound right. It probably is the DVR, because you're always watching through it even when live. I would spring for a new upgraded DVR, and they'd probably even replace yours for free.

I've been considering going to their DVR operating system where you record up to 4 shows at once (iirc) and can watch the shows on any connected TV in the house, and can also pause watching in one room (living room) and resume on another (bedroom).
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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Steelersfan
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Re: FIOS

Post by Steelersfan »

I switched from Comcast to FIOS a couple of years ago and there hasn't been any noticeable difference in speed or reliability. I was happy with Comcast and am happy with FIOS. At the time I switched FIOS was considerably cheaper. Now Comcast is offering deals and it would be cheaper if I switched back. I think I'll just stay where I am unless the price difference gets too great.

I do believe that Comcast service was quite variable depending on where you lived. I was in a "good Comcast" area.

Maybe some of those who have seen an improvement were in a "bad Comcast" area. Since FIOS is all new build, it's service and reliability should be similar where ever you are.
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Re: FIOS

Post by Tom_T »

I switched from Comcast to FiOS three years ago, and I would not go back. I don't know what the Comcast on-screen menus look like now, but at the time they looked simplistic and antiquated compared to FiOS -- particularly the DVR menu. FiOS speed is far better than what I had with Comcast. I just now ran Speedtest here at my computer, and I got 58/60 (I'm on the 50/50 plan, but apparently I'm getting a boost.) I'm in the Northeast, in NJ, so your mileage may vary depending on where you live.

Also, I have never heard many good things about Comcast digital voice. I've had no problems with the FiOS equivalent.

Verizon can be a little confusing with its online presence. I have a FiOS login and a Verizon Wireless login -- but I am billed for both on one invoice. It's a little crazy.
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Re: FIOS

Post by tj »

FedGuy wrote:I switched from cable/Internet to FiOS in my old apartment, because FiOS was running a good deal and I was curious. Frankly, in terms of Internet, I didn't notice much of a difference. It felt about the same to me as the Internet I got through my cable company in terms of both speed and reliability. I was pretty ticked off when I found out that several TV programs I watched on channels that were not part of my FiOS package were blocked through the Internet (that is, I could go to the website of the channel I no longer got, and the website advertised the ability to watch the relevant program directly over the Internet, but to do so I had to enter my FiOS login information, and was blocked from watching the programs because the channel wasn't part of my package. If I had known I wouldn't be able to watch those shows through the Internet, I would have considered upgrading my package. Then again, those packages would have been more expensive, so I might have just stayed with my cable company).

I have moved to a new city, and my building doesn't have FiOS. I'm back to a (different) cable/Internet company. Again, I don't notice any difference in Internet speed or reliability. I'm glad to have my shows back, though.

This is standard with all TV providers. If you don't have the channel in your TV package, and they require authentication, you can't watch it on demand. The exception would be if its available through something like netflix or hulu. (which you would need to access through those websites)
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Re: FIOS

Post by FedGuy »

tj wrote:This is standard with all TV providers. If you don't have the channel in your TV package, and they require authentication, you can't watch it on demand. The exception would be if its available through something like netflix or hulu. (which you would need to access through those websites)
What was weird was that, after switching to FiOS, I was able to watch several TV shows through the website of one of the channels I no longer got, but several of the other TV shows on that same channel were blocked.

Also, I think it's worth emphasizing the point that watching through the Internet (other than, as you noted, something like Hulu) might not be an option. When I was considering switching to FiOS and choosing my FiOS package, I noted the loss of two channels that I sometimes watched but decided it wasn't a big deal because both channels streamed most of their shows from their website. So, I thought, that just meant that I'd watch a handful of shows through my computer instead of on my TV, which I didn't think was a big deal. Had I realized that I might lose access to the shows altogether, my decision might have been different.
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Re: FIOS

Post by linenfort »

Epsilon Delta wrote:One problem about Verizon is their billing. I have a signed contract giving a price and FiOS keeps overcharging.
I've had billing problems with them, too (and Verizon landline in a separate residence, and Verizon Wireless).

They are blazingly, fast, though. I love the service. Of course, I came to them from Clearwire, not cable.
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JMacDonald
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Re: FIOS

Post by JMacDonald »

Zabar wrote:I've had FIOS in three locations (MA and VA) over the past six years, and love it. I'm about to move to California to a place where it's not (yet) available, so I'm going with cable--but month-to-month so that I can switch back as soon as possible.

The service has been very reliable. Internet throughput keeps improving. Downtime has been minimal. Yes, cable is a few dollars/month cheaper. So what?
I have FIOS in California. You have to live in a Verizon area. I have had FIOS triple play for less than two years. I am happy with the service, but it is a bit pricy. I have not used any other cable service so I can't compare, but I have no reason at this point to make any changes.
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sevenseas
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Re: FIOS [versus cable]

Post by sevenseas »

I live in NYC and had Time Warner Cable (cable modem) prior to switching to FiOS when it became available. This is internet only. I work from home and require extremely reliable and blazingly fast Internet to power various medical dictation and digital imaging programs.

I would not go back to TWC if you paid me to do it. With TWC I had constant outages and slowdowns. Outages could last 1-2 days. This was catastrophic as it meant I couldn't work. I don't know how many hours I spent on the phone with customer service, complaining and trying to schedule service visits. By the time I switched, I was beyond fed up with TWC. Prior to FiOS, they had a bit of a monopoly here so maybe they felt they could get away with poor service.

I've had FiOS for 3+ years and LOVE it. Super fast, no outages that I can recall...no experience with customer service because I've never had to call them! I think I pay $20-30 more per month now than I did with TWC. It is worth every penny, and more!
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Re: FIOS [versus cable]

Post by tennisplyr »

Have Fios for a while now switched from Cablevision. Am satisfied and right now things are competitive so my wife negotiated a $40 /month reduction on their triple play. Also Verizon has the Tennis Channel which is not offered on Cablevision so that's a big plus. Reliability is good.
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Re: FIOS [versus cable]

Post by Mudpuppy »

airahcaz wrote:So for those of you who have or had FIOS, is it true you'll never go back to cable cause it is that much better and more reliable?
Part of your evaluation of FIOS vs Cable is going to depend on the quality of the actual, physical infrastructure (e.g. coaxial cables, head nodes, etc.) for the cable company specifically in your area. That's something that none of us can help you with unless we live down the road from you. For example, in my town you can choose RoadRunner or uVerse (AT&T's hybrid copper/fiber optic option). People in the older part of town, where the coaxial cables really should be re-run due to age and who constantly have cable outages, prefer uVerse simply because it works in relation to the older cable infrastructure. People in my part of town, where the cable infrastructure is relatively new and has very few issues, prefer RoadRunner since uVerse makes a few networking choices that can cause a slight uptick in latency. So you really need to talk to your neighbors and find out their experiences.
FedGuy wrote:What was weird was that, after switching to FiOS, I was able to watch several TV shows through the website of one of the channels I no longer got, but several of the other TV shows on that same channel were blocked.
That's a decision of the specific TV networks. The network can decide to lock some of their shows to "participating TV providers" and to not lock other shows. Then all the free content redistributors, like Hulu, have to abide by that decision. For example, SyFy and USA (owned by the same parent company) have a 30 day delay between the broadcast of their established shows and the free availability of those shows online. During that 30 day period, only subscribers of "participating TV providers" can watch the show. But for their new shows, they typically let those go online within a day or so, so that they can build a viewer-base. Other networks lock all of their shows to participating providers. But the key thing is that it is the network which decides this, not the TV providers.
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BigOil
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Re: FIOS [versus cable]

Post by BigOil »

We have had Fios in two different cities.

There can be little debate technically. FiOS is significantly and materially superior in technology usage to deliver content and Internet services. Their telephone service, has a neat digital interface online for voicemail and call logs, it also shows who calls and voicemail on TV, uses NOMOROBO via simultaneous ringing at no additional charge (NOMOROBO really helps!!!], and has a useful iPhone app. The pricing is such with triple play, it usually makes sense to have the service with phoone too.

For those that notice, the picture is significantly better because they do not change any of the bits taken from the satellites or television stations. Since digital is perfectly transmitted (or obviously pixelated or black) you see exactly what they see in the control locations. The Internet has uniform uploading and download speeds, this may matter for for people that they set up their own home clouds. Which are no longer very expensive.

There's no reason to use cable, as their pricing is competitive, and their customer service is "good as" or maybe a bit better than cable. Obviously individuals can have anomalies with either supplier.

The most annoying thing is having to call annually or so, to negotiate a discount rate closer with the give new subscribers that switched.

That had a lot of growing pains over the years, but the digital boxes work well generally... And the Internet is scary fast. I have 30Mbit up and down now at home, which is amazing.

All that said, cable-TV is fine too. Yes they compressed the pictures, in the Internet is not quite as strong on average, but most customers in my experience don't notice such things. Kind of like most investors are not Bolgeheads.

Disclaimer- I am in the process of switching to Time Warner Cable, I would not expect most Bogleheads to grasp this... But FiOS does not have the SEC Network in HD outside of Florida and Texas. This is unforgivable sin in my large screen household. I am pleased to report, if this does not matter to you, YOU WILL be able to receive Al Jazeera glorious high definition ---- clearly that's very patriotic and high demand (thanks AL Gore... ;-) LOL; as well as endless rounds of HD Bangladeshi cricket matches on Willow or Bein ---. But no SEC. I hypothesize it's an Ivy League thing; the Verizon CEO apparently went to Cornell. ...In other words their program practices are clueless.
Last edited by BigOil on Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
ebabin
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Re: FIOS [versus cable]

Post by ebabin »

[OT comments removed by admin LadyGeek]
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airahcaz
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Re: FIOS [versus cable]

Post by airahcaz »

Optimum Cablevision offered a two-year no contract promotion including TV (one dvr box), phone, and 50/25 mbs "ultra" internet for $113 including taxes and fees.

Competitive?
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airahcaz
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Re: FIOS [versus cable]

Post by airahcaz »

So we've noticed our bandwidth is significantly reduced in early evening with Cablevision optimim online. At other times it is fine and very fast. Is it true that bandwidth is consistently fast with FIOS? In other words others using their internet is affected with Cablevision but is not affected if on FIOS?
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course. (Plagiarized, but worth stealing)
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: FIOS [versus cable]

Post by TomatoTomahto »

airahcaz wrote:So we've noticed our bandwidth is significantly reduced in early evening with Cablevision optimim online. At other times it is fine and very fast. Is it true that bandwidth is consistently fast with FIOS? In other words others using their internet is affected with Cablevision but is not affected if on FIOS?
Bandwidth for us seems fine, but some streaming servers seem to be affected (Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc.). We have 75/75 service, which for all practical purposes is infinite for a 3-person household.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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airahcaz
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Re: FIOS [versus cable]

Post by airahcaz »

TomatoTomahto wrote:
airahcaz wrote:So we've noticed our bandwidth is significantly reduced in early evening with Cablevision optimim online. At other times it is fine and very fast. Is it true that bandwidth is consistently fast with FIOS? In other words others using their internet is affected with Cablevision but is not affected if on FIOS?
Bandwidth for us seems fine, but some streaming servers seem to be affected (Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc.). We have 75/75 service, which for all practical purposes is infinite for a 3-person household.
Via what service provider? We have 50/25
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course. (Plagiarized, but worth stealing)
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: FIOS [versus cable]

Post by TomatoTomahto »

airahcaz wrote:
TomatoTomahto wrote:
airahcaz wrote:So we've noticed our bandwidth is significantly reduced in early evening with Cablevision optimim online. At other times it is fine and very fast. Is it true that bandwidth is consistently fast with FIOS? In other words others using their internet is affected with Cablevision but is not affected if on FIOS?
Bandwidth for us seems fine, but some streaming servers seem to be affected (Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc.). We have 75/75 service, which for all practical purposes is infinite for a 3-person household.
Via what service provider? We have 50/25
It's FIOS Quantum. We purchased 75/35 (I think it was 35), but they did some deal where our loyalty was being rewarded by making in symmetrical. It's nice to upload photos a bit quicker every few months when I upload a lot, but honestly, I don't think the 75 upstream makes a real difference to me. I have measured the downstream, and even over wifi I get nearly 50. I'm pretty sure that my wired connections would get 75 if I had a way to test them with nobody else on. In any case, it is fast enough where I never think about it, except for that business where FIOS was throttling Netflix, but that apparently has recently been improved (Verizon had its extortion paid).
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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airahcaz
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Re: FIOS [versus cable]

Post by airahcaz »

TomatoTomahto wrote:
airahcaz wrote:
TomatoTomahto wrote:
airahcaz wrote:So we've noticed our bandwidth is significantly reduced in early evening with Cablevision optimim online. At other times it is fine and very fast. Is it true that bandwidth is consistently fast with FIOS? In other words others using their internet is affected with Cablevision but is not affected if on FIOS?
Bandwidth for us seems fine, but some streaming servers seem to be affected (Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc.). We have 75/75 service, which for all practical purposes is infinite for a 3-person household.
Via what service provider? We have 50/25
It's FIOS Quantum. We purchased 75/35 (I think it was 35), but they did some deal where our loyalty was being rewarded by making in symmetrical. It's nice to upload photos a bit quicker every few months when I upload a lot, but honestly, I don't think the 75 upstream makes a real difference to me. I have measured the downstream, and even over wifi I get nearly 50. I'm pretty sure that my wired connections would get 75 if I had a way to test them with nobody else on. In any case, it is fast enough where I never think about it, except for that business where FIOS was throttling Netflix, but that apparently has recently been improved (Verizon had its extortion paid).
I get 50 on wifi at really good times, then as low as single digits in evening peak times. I'd be happy with 20-30's consistently, what is your min during peak hours?
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Re: FIOS [versus cable]

Post by TomatoTomahto »

airahcaz wrote:I get 50 on wifi at really good times, then as low as single digits in evening peak times. I'd be happy with 20-30's consistently, what is your min during peak hours?
I think 30/20 is probably as low as it gets in a room with good coverage, but I haven't picked a peak time when I was the only one using it, so it's hard to be sure. With my son playing an online game at 11:30, I tested it at 29/14 in a room with the worst wifi in the house.

ETA: This morning, without anyone else using it, I got 84/49 in a room with good wifi reception.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
Mudpuppy
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Re: FIOS [versus cable]

Post by Mudpuppy »

airahcaz wrote:I get 50 on wifi at really good times, then as low as single digits in evening peak times. I'd be happy with 20-30's consistently, what is your min during peak hours?
It might be your neighbor's wifi more so than your Internet provider. When you have slow downs, have you looked to see how many other wifi access points are active (just click on the wifi icon to see how many there are)? If you and your neighbor are using the same wifi channel, you basically have to take turns, which slows everyone down. If you and your neighbor are using close, but not the same, channels, you also have to take turns, but it actually takes longer than when you're in the same channel. If your neighbor is using an old router (say 802.11g) in the same channel where you're using a newer router (say 802.11n), then your router has to "fall back" to the old protocol.

I have a neighbor who has a half-dozen wifi access points. Some are 802.11g and some are 802.11n. All of them are in poorly chosen channels, so they clobber all of my wifi traffic as soon as they are turned on. I wonder if they keep adding access points thinking it will help "speed up" their connection, not realizing that having so many in close proximity is actually the problem. They aren't very approachable, or I'd walk over to provide unasked-for tech support.

The best way to avoid access point clobbering is to make sure you're using a dual-band 802.11ac or 802.11n system. Then all of the ancient devices can duke it out on the 2.4GHz band while all of the newer devices can sail along the 5GHz band. There will still be some sharing issues if your neighbor also has a 5GHz access point, but not nearly as bad as trying to share the 2.4GHz band can be.

Side note: It could also be the ISP. If a cable company oversells a neighborhood (sells more cable Internet packages than they can support), then when there is high demand, they also force the customers to time-share the wire from your neighborhood to their head end system. This means everyone has to take turns sending and receiving data, just like when you have to share a wifi channel, so everything slows down. And if you have both issues happening (wifi sharing and oversold cable network), then they just amplify the delays. But you'd only solve the oversold cable network issue by changing ISPs, not the wifi sharing issue.
Topic Author
airahcaz
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Re: FIOS [versus cable]

Post by airahcaz »

Mudpuppy wrote:
airahcaz wrote:I get 50 on wifi at really good times, then as low as single digits in evening peak times. I'd be happy with 20-30's consistently, what is your min during peak hours?
It might be your neighbor's wifi more so than your Internet provider. When you have slow downs, have you looked to see how many other wifi access points are active (just click on the wifi icon to see how many there are)? If you and your neighbor are using the same wifi channel, you basically have to take turns, which slows everyone down. If you and your neighbor are using close, but not the same, channels, you also have to take turns, but it actually takes longer than when you're in the same channel. If your neighbor is using an old router (say 802.11g) in the same channel where you're using a newer router (say 802.11n), then your router has to "fall back" to the old protocol.

I have a neighbor who has a half-dozen wifi access points. Some are 802.11g and some are 802.11n. All of them are in poorly chosen channels, so they clobber all of my wifi traffic as soon as they are turned on. I wonder if they keep adding access points thinking it will help "speed up" their connection, not realizing that having so many in close proximity is actually the problem. They aren't very approachable, or I'd walk over to provide unasked-for tech support.

The best way to avoid access point clobbering is to make sure you're using a dual-band 802.11ac or 802.11n system. Then all of the ancient devices can duke it out on the 2.4GHz band while all of the newer devices can sail along the 5GHz band. There will still be some sharing issues if your neighbor also has a 5GHz access point, but not nearly as bad as trying to share the 2.4GHz band can be.

Side note: It could also be the ISP. If a cable company oversells a neighborhood (sells more cable Internet packages than they can support), then when there is high demand, they also force the customers to time-share the wire from your neighborhood to their head end system. This means everyone has to take turns sending and receiving data, just like when you have to share a wifi channel, so everything slows down. And if you have both issues happening (wifi sharing and oversold cable network), then they just amplify the delays. But you'd only solve the oversold cable network issue by changing ISPs, not the wifi sharing issue.
We have our own modem/wifi router so wifi is not shared and it is password secured.

I'm imagining that FIOS has to be better.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course. (Plagiarized, but worth stealing)
dolphinsaremammals
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Re: FIOS [versus cable]

Post by dolphinsaremammals »

I would never go to FIOS, because Verizon has been so very, very annoying about getting rid of copper landlines in my area. I have Cox cable currently, and even if I weren't ticked off at Verizon, I would keep it.

Sort of vaguely related, HBO and CBS announced recently they will let people do an end run around cable "tv" packages:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/22/opini ... umers.html
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beyou
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Re: FIOS

Post by beyou »

Epsilon Delta wrote:In my experience both Verizon FiOS and Time Warner cable are fast enough and reliable enough. I will go back to cable if they happen to have a better deal when renewal comes up.

One problem about Verizon is their billing. I have a signed contract giving a price and FiOS keeps overcharging. I call and they try to get me to buy an upgrade. I go to their store and show them the contract and they agree to make an adjustment but it takes months to appear and is sometimes wrong. Judge Judy may be in our future if they can't get their act together.
Have heard same complaint about FIOS and Verizon Wireless too.
Sales lies about promotions, customer service does not fix things when you call.

That said, I pay for cable in two locations (son in college and my own).
Time warner service is just as bad as Verizon, unresponsive and unable to solve basic problems.
Cablevision Optonline, billing wise is fine, but the service for TV is terrible (on demand, DVR general TV reliability is bad).
Fine for internet and phone, which is far more important, so I keep Cablevision Optonline.
Jim85
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Re: FIOS [versus cable]

Post by Jim85 »

Have had Comcast and FIOS. Moved back and forth based on offers. FIOS has superior picture and more reliable internet. With latest install of FIOS I found pretty poor wireless performance and decided to disable the wireless feature on the Verizon (Actiontec) modem and install my own wireless router. Big improvement. Even with having to do this, I still prefer FIOS. Pretty sure Comcast has more free On Demand content but with the package we have, plus Netflix, I don't need any more to watch. If it wasn't for some sports that I watch I would just get internet and a digital antenna. Local broadcast and Netflix would be fine.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: FIOS [versus cable]

Post by TomatoTomahto »

airahcaz wrote:We have our own modem/wifi router so wifi is not shared and it is password secured.

I'm imagining that FIOS has to be better.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/227973/s ... _them.html
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
Easy Rhino
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Re: FIOS [versus cable]

Post by Easy Rhino »

Mudpuppy wrote:
airahcaz wrote:So for those of you who have or had FIOS, is it true you'll never go back to cable cause it is that much better and more reliable?
Part of your evaluation of FIOS vs Cable is going to depend on the quality of the actual, physical infrastructure (e.g. coaxial cables, head nodes, etc.) for the cable company specifically in your area. That's something that none of us can help you with unless we live down the road from you. For example, in my town you can choose RoadRunner or uVerse (AT&T's hybrid copper/fiber optic option). People in the older part of town, where the coaxial cables really should be re-run due to age and who constantly have cable outages, prefer uVerse simply because it works in relation to the older cable infrastructure..
About infrastructure (but not FIOS), I learned in my old neighborhood outside san diego, when AT&T first started offering uverse, the guy doing the external installation (running cable to my house) gave me a call and warned me that the signal was going to be running a good 3 blocks on above ground phone wire -- old phone wire -- until they got to the aggregator dingus. And there may have been another stretch before it finally turned into fiber. He basically warned me that I may get outages when it rains.

(although it's been pretty reliable for us... then again it may not have rained for a year or so)
Zecht
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Re: FIOS [versus cable]

Post by Zecht »

Keep in mind that most of these responses do not include people that regularly stress-test their connection. For example, I regularly run a home server that maxes out my Cable One service and causes me to experience slow downloads. The upload rate is better than some, but not nearly sufficient enough for consumers capable of running their own infrastructure. In the cities I have used FiOS and tested the connections, it is wonderful. When I compare the bitrates possible, the transcoding for media, and the lag experienced it is negligible in comparison.

Also keep in mind that choosing between companies is a needs-based thing you should think about. Don't pay for a Ferrari when you are going to drive it like a Pinto to borrow an auto analogy.
technovelist
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Re: FIOS [versus cable]

Post by technovelist »

I wish I could get ANYTHING like cable or even DSL out in "Green Acres", never mind FIOS.
At least I have finally been able to get an LTE (4g) wireless connection that is pretty good... for $90/month.
In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, they often differ.
Mudpuppy
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Re: FIOS [versus cable]

Post by Mudpuppy »

airahcaz wrote:We have our own modem/wifi router so wifi is not shared and it is password secured.

I'm imagining that FIOS has to be better.
The wifi protocol does not care about passwords and encryption when it comes to sharing the airways. It only cares that someone else is using the same frequency band (i.e. wifi channel). Think of it like the difference between a highway and a train line. On a highway, you have to share the lanes with a bunch of other people who are using whatever passes for a vehicle. There is no real control over who you share it with, and you have to share nicely even if it makes the trip take longer. On a train line, the railroad company has complete control over who uses the line and how they use it. They can schedule for optimal efficiency.

When you are sharing the same frequency band with your neighbors, you've just turned your wifi access point into a highway. Only your key (password) gets you into your car (wifi access point), but your car has to share the freeway with other vehicles (e.g. your neighbors' wifi access points). And if your neighbor's wifi access point is the equivalent of an old clunker that is hogging all the lanes and slowing everyone else down, you're pretty much stuck.

But if you move to a frequency band none of your neighbors are using it's like turning your wifi access point into a train line. No one else is there, so you can do with it what you want to do. Of course, there's always the possibility someone else will move into the same frequency band (it's not regulated). But finding your own little piece of the frequency space is the best way to improve your wifi speeds and unless you're in a big apartment/condo building, there's probably an unused slice of frequency just waiting to be used.
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airahcaz
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Re: FIOS [versus cable]

Post by airahcaz »

Mudpuppy wrote:
airahcaz wrote:We have our own modem/wifi router so wifi is not shared and it is password secured.

I'm imagining that FIOS has to be better.
The wifi protocol does not care about passwords and encryption when it comes to sharing the airways. It only cares that someone else is using the same frequency band (i.e. wifi channel). Think of it like the difference between a highway and a train line. On a highway, you have to share the lanes with a bunch of other people who are using whatever passes for a vehicle. There is no real control over who you share it with, and you have to share nicely even if it makes the trip take longer. On a train line, the railroad company has complete control over who uses the line and how they use it. They can schedule for optimal efficiency.

When you are sharing the same frequency band with your neighbors, you've just turned your wifi access point into a highway. Only your key (password) gets you into your car (wifi access point), but your car has to share the freeway with other vehicles (e.g. your neighbors' wifi access points). And if your neighbor's wifi access point is the equivalent of an old clunker that is hogging all the lanes and slowing everyone else down, you're pretty much stuck.

But if you move to a frequency band none of your neighbors are using it's like turning your wifi access point into a train line. No one else is there, so you can do with it what you want to do. Of course, there's always the possibility someone else will move into the same frequency band (it's not regulated). But finding your own little piece of the frequency space is the best way to improve your wifi speeds and unless you're in a big apartment/condo building, there's probably an unused slice of frequency just waiting to be used.
Thanks. Do you basically mean the 5 ghz?
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course. (Plagiarized, but worth stealing)
Mudpuppy
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Re: FIOS [versus cable]

Post by Mudpuppy »

airahcaz wrote:
Mudpuppy wrote:
airahcaz wrote:We have our own modem/wifi router so wifi is not shared and it is password secured.

I'm imagining that FIOS has to be better.
The wifi protocol does not care about passwords and encryption when it comes to sharing the airways. It only cares that someone else is using the same frequency band (i.e. wifi channel). Think of it like the difference between a highway and a train line. On a highway, you have to share the lanes with a bunch of other people who are using whatever passes for a vehicle. There is no real control over who you share it with, and you have to share nicely even if it makes the trip take longer. On a train line, the railroad company has complete control over who uses the line and how they use it. They can schedule for optimal efficiency.

When you are sharing the same frequency band with your neighbors, you've just turned your wifi access point into a highway. Only your key (password) gets you into your car (wifi access point), but your car has to share the freeway with other vehicles (e.g. your neighbors' wifi access points). And if your neighbor's wifi access point is the equivalent of an old clunker that is hogging all the lanes and slowing everyone else down, you're pretty much stuck.

But if you move to a frequency band none of your neighbors are using it's like turning your wifi access point into a train line. No one else is there, so you can do with it what you want to do. Of course, there's always the possibility someone else will move into the same frequency band (it's not regulated). But finding your own little piece of the frequency space is the best way to improve your wifi speeds and unless you're in a big apartment/condo building, there's probably an unused slice of frequency just waiting to be used.
Thanks. Do you basically mean the 5 ghz?
You don't eliminate the problem on the 5GHz band, but you do greatly minimize it. 5GHz is only supported by 802.11a, 802.11n, and 802.11ac. There are very few 802.11a machines around, so by going to 5GHz, you'll pretty much just be sharing with 802.11n and 802.11ac stations. These are much faster protocols than having to share with 802.11g.

You can further refine 802.11ac by channel size and selection, but perhaps that is a more advanced topic than people would want to discuss.
Topic Author
airahcaz
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Re: FIOS [versus cable]

Post by airahcaz »

UPDATE: the (Free) wireless router that comes with Optimum serves as a free Optimum Wifi hotspot for anyone around, ANYONE. This HAS to have an impact on my environment personally, right??

Time to put my own wireless router back on...
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course. (Plagiarized, but worth stealing)
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