No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Post Reply
Topic Author
sharke
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:20 pm

No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by sharke »

Ten years ago I moved across the country to a more walkable city and I sold my car in the process. I have been happily getting by on a mix of public transportation, taxis, rentals, and zipcar. I had grown up loving my cars, even working on them mechanically, but I adapted and found that I liked being relieved of the burdens of maintenance and repairs, and of the stress of commuting in traffic.

Over the past few years I have been renting cars more often, mostly for snow sports trips or weekend camping. It has worked well from a transport standpoint - I always get a newer, well-maintained car in good condition, and after the trip is over, I don't have to worry about parking it in the city or otherwise looking after it.

Recently however I found myself looking at cars, wondering what I might get if I were to ever buy one again. I've become intrigued by the idea of a Jeep Wrangler - 4WD for snow trips and removable top for summer camping or beach trips, and the possibility to dabble in some off-roading. I owned several cars in my youth, but never a new one, so I have a bit of an itch to buy new now that I can afford it. I could pay cash for it and still have 3 years of living expenses left in taxable accounts, and the depreciation rate on Wranglers is actually relatively low.

I would continue to commute via public transportation and just use this vehicle for fun. Cost-wise I think it would be more expensive than renting unless I go on trips more often than I have been. If e.g. the car depreciates at 3k/year over the first 5 years, it's costing me more than the 2k or so I pay now for rentals. It would also be a fixed cost, i.e. I wouldn't have the option that I have now to eliminate the expense in a financial emergency (though I could certainly sell the car later).

Basically I'm struggling with justifying spending extra money for "fun", where part of the fun in this case is pride of ownership and automobiles as a hobby. It doesn't make sense to me logically. Part of me thinks it's exciting exciting if I think of it as a reward to myself, but part of me thinks it would be extravagant and wasteful, and I should be content with cheaper hobbies. Can any of you relate and/or suggest ways I might frame the decision?
I survived the Great Bond Crash of 2013!
john94549
Posts: 4638
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by john94549 »

Cars are merely major appliances. Treat them as such.
dolphinsaremammals
Posts: 2094
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:18 pm

Re: No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by dolphinsaremammals »

If I got by perfectly well without owning a car, I don't know why I'd ever want to buy one, even though I like (some) cars. Maybe consider renting some more interesting cars than you have been.
poker27
Posts: 1149
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:48 pm

Re: No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by poker27 »

I live in chicago, and wish I didn't own a car (I would keep my motorcycle tho:). I'm not sure where you live, but In large metros they are more of a hassle. Yes, it would be nice when you occasionally need one, but what about 95% of the other days? Parking tickets, car maintenance, finding parking, gets annoying
User avatar
NaOH
Posts: 118
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:05 pm
Location: The Garden Where Solutions Are Found

Re: No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by NaOH »

What's the point of making smart financial decisions if you never let yourself enjoy the rewards of doing so?
"Are you flying? Or are you simply floating?"
denovo
Posts: 4808
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:04 pm

Re: No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by denovo »

How much do you have to pay to park the car?
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln
User avatar
dumbbunny
Posts: 916
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:00 pm
Location: Oregon coast

Re: No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by dumbbunny »

dolphinsaremammals wrote:Maybe consider renting some more interesting cars than you have been.
Like a Jeep Wrangler
“It’s the curse of old men to realize that in the end we control nothing." "Homeland" episode, "Gerontion"
Topic Author
sharke
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:20 pm

Re: No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by sharke »

poker27 wrote:I live in chicago, and wish I didn't own a car (I would keep my motorcycle tho:). I'm not sure where you live, but In large metros they are more of a hassle. Yes, it would be nice when you occasionally need one, but what about 95% of the other days? Parking tickets, car maintenance, finding parking, gets annoying
Agreed, those are reasons why I haven't missed having a car for the past 10 years :wink: I still have no intention of buying a daily driver; this would be a vehicle that gets used for road trips - maybe 1 weekend per month, plus 2 weeks per year. Milage would thus accrue very slowly, and I would count on that plus the fact that the car is new to keep maintenance issues to a minimum. I would probably keep the car parked near where I work most of the time, to avoid the issues and costs associated with parking in the city.
I survived the Great Bond Crash of 2013!
Topic Author
sharke
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:20 pm

Re: No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by sharke »

Peterjens wrote:
dolphinsaremammals wrote:Maybe consider renting some more interesting cars than you have been.
Like a Jeep Wrangler
Ha, good point. Wranglers can be hard to find for rent, but I have been looking into it. Assuming I could rent a Wrangler whenever I wanted, then it seems the difference between renting and owning might come down to convenience, pride of ownership and hobbyist factors (favorite color, customizations e.g. better stereo etc.) versus additional responsibilities and some increased cost. Lately the hobbyist factors have started holding more appeal for me, which is why I've started considering buying.
I survived the Great Bond Crash of 2013!
User avatar
22twain
Posts: 4032
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 5:42 pm

Re: No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by 22twain »

sharke wrote:Cost-wise I think it would be more expensive than renting unless I go on trips more often than I have been. If e.g. the car depreciates at 3k/year over the first 5 years, it's costing me more than the 2k or so I pay now for rentals.
What about insurance? Personal property tax (if applicable in your state)? Would you have to pay to park it somewhere, or does your housing include "free" parking?
Meet my pet, Peeve, who loves to convert non-acronyms into acronyms: FED, ROTH, CASH, IVY, ...
dolphinsaremammals
Posts: 2094
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:18 pm

Re: No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by dolphinsaremammals »

sharke wrote: pride of ownership
= waste of money.
User avatar
William Million
Posts: 1132
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 4:41 am
Location: A Deep Mountain

Re: No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by William Million »

I just bought a Jeep Commander but also commute on public transport. But I like to use it to drive to the ski slopes and it's great having the hitch to move the family's mountain bikes around.

However, I did buy used. Good thing about Jeeps (especially Wrangler) is they don't depreciate beyond a certain level so long as they are still running well. It's an American car, so repairs are often reasonable. Therefore you might consider a used one, especially if you are going to street park it. In that case, you would not have to worry as much about depreciation and could always turn around and sell it. Also, you would forego the more costly collision insurance.

A small anecdote about my Jeep purchase. I'm in an area for just 10 months and don't want to take the car with me afterwards since I'll go abroad. I often buy from the same used car dealer, and he's a super credible guy. He promised me he will buy the Jeep back from me for $2,000 less if I don't have time to sell when I get ready to leave the country.
mlipps
Posts: 1099
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:35 am

Re: No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by mlipps »

Maybe check out relay rides to see if you can find a wrangler for rent there. They're fun cars to own but they're surprisingly small inside and not even a little bit comfortable. Also, Jeeps are about the most unreliable brand of car in America so personally I wouldn't buy one, even new. The first thing I did after marrying my Jeep loving husband was convince him to trade his Liberty in for a Toyota.
jebmke
Posts: 25476
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Delmarva Peninsula

Re: No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by jebmke »

sharke wrote:Over the past few years I have been renting cars more often, mostly for snow sports trips or weekend camping. It has worked well from a transport standpoint - I always get a newer, well-maintained car in good condition, and after the trip is over, I don't have to worry about parking it in the city or otherwise looking after it.
Sounds ideal.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
Austintatious
Posts: 878
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:01 pm

Re: No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by Austintatious »

Sharke, I'm in the opposite position. I live in a rural setting and have zero access to public transportation. I live with the constant headaches and drain on finances that owning a motor vehicle bring to my life. I'm genuinely sick of it all. I suggest that you forget the very idea and embrace the fact that you can live a very nice lifestyle without the expense and hassle that come with owning a car. My advice - remember that old saying about the grass being greener on the other side of the street and stick with that car free, carefree lifestyle. Good luck, whatever you do!
lululu
Posts: 1378
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:23 pm

Re: No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by lululu »

Austintatious wrote:Sharke, I'm in the opposite position. I live in a rural setting and have zero access to public transportation.
I live similarly in the boonies. I never thought of it before I moved here, but there are indeed places where there is zero public transportation. You can't even get a cab to come here.
technovelist
Posts: 3611
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:02 pm

Re: No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by technovelist »

lululu wrote:
Austintatious wrote:Sharke, I'm in the opposite position. I live in a rural setting and have zero access to public transportation.
I live similarly in the boonies. I never thought of it before I moved here, but there are indeed places where there is zero public transportation. You can't even get a cab to come here.
Me three. If I lived somewhere that a car wasn't necessary, I'd sell and heave a great sigh of relief.

However, for those of us who live in very rural areas, there is a workaround that can be useful if you have to drive to the city for some reason when your car is broken down, or if you have to drive to an airport and don't want to pay for parking for a lengthy trip: rent a pickup from U-haul or the like. They have rental agents even in very rural areas, and you can rent one-way to a drop-off point near wherever you are going.
In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, they often differ.
Topic Author
sharke
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:20 pm

Re: No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by sharke »

Thanks for the responses everyone. I'm surprised that there are so many people who own an automobile but wish they didn't!
William Million wrote:I just bought a Jeep Commander but also commute on public transport. But I like to use it to drive to the ski slopes and it's great having the hitch to move the family's mountain bikes around.

However, I did buy used. Good thing about Jeeps (especially Wrangler) is they don't depreciate beyond a certain level so long as they are still running well. It's an American car, so repairs are often reasonable. Therefore you might consider a used one, especially if you are going to street park it. In that case, you would not have to worry as much about depreciation and could always turn around and sell it. Also, you would forego the more costly collision insurance.
Interesting, it sounds like you are using your Jeep similarly to how I would use mine if I were to buy one. Buying used is definitely the more financially prudent way to go. I have to admit there's a "you only live once" element to my thinking. When I was young I couldn't afford to buy new, or to do upgrades that would have been fun for me like installing a really nice stereo. Buying new and doing upgrades would cost more money but it would increase the amount of enjoyment I would get out of my new vehicle-owner hobby.

From a purely financial perspective, the road trips that I already take to enjoy hobbies like snowboarding are in themselves a waste of money, right? Those trips are not something I would have done back when I had less disposable income, but they have been quite fun and I have no regrets. So to phrase the question more generally: can owning a weekend automobile be a rewarding hobby? And what's a good framework for evaluating whether the cost of a hobby is worth it to you?
I survived the Great Bond Crash of 2013!
User avatar
Jazztonight
Posts: 1339
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:21 pm
Location: Lake Merritt

Re: No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by Jazztonight »

When I was a kid, I couldn't wait to drive. I now live in a downtown area with 93/100 walkability rating, and I avoid driving as much as possible.

I'd get rid of my car in a heartbeat, but I'm still playing gigs and need to haul my gear around every week, so the Camry sits in the garage until I need it. I drive less than 3000 miles a year. Zero miles would be better.

I do understand your desire for a vehicle for vacation trips, etc. Personally, I'd continue to rent.
"What does not destroy me, makes me stronger." Nietzsche
Austintatious
Posts: 878
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:01 pm

Re: No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by Austintatious »

Jazztonight wrote:When I was a kid, I couldn't wait to drive. I now live in a downtown area with 93/100 walkability rating, and I avoid driving as much as possible.

I'd get rid of my car in a heartbeat, but I'm still playing gigs and need to haul my gear around every week, so the Camry sits in the garage until I need it. I drive less than 3000 miles a year. Zero miles would be better.

I do understand your desire for a vehicle for vacation trips, etc. Personally, I'd continue to rent.
And when you go long distance, you go by rail. Thanks for taking us along, Jazztonight. Really did enjoy it.
core4portfolio
Posts: 672
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:12 pm

Re: No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by core4portfolio »

If there is a need then buy it otherwise a big NO for the reasons below

1. Waste of money on gas, insurance
2. Speeding and parking tickets
3. Maintenance including interior and exterior
4. Climate had big impact on your car based on your location.

I have a old car but my city need that otherwise I don't like to own.
I would save money instead of this depreciating asset.
Allocation : 80/20 (90% TSM, 10% on ARKK,XBI,XLK/individual stocks and 20% TBM) | | Need to learn fishing sooner
bloom2708
Posts: 9861
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:08 pm

Re: No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by bloom2708 »

I personally wouldn't buy a Wrangler after 10 years of not having a car.

If you have driven and 1984, 1994, 2004 or 2014 you have driven a Wrangler. The 2014 might have a CD player, but they aren't that much different.

Rough ride, wind noise, drafty, stiff, loud. Wind in your hair, bugs in your teeth. A good friend scratched an itch and bought a brand new Wrangler. 5 speed manual. It rode like an 84 with 190k on it.

I think the new 4 door models ride better due to the longer wheel base.

But then, this isn't what I would do. Good luck!
Valuethinker
Posts: 49038
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by Valuethinker »

sharke wrote: I would continue to commute via public transportation and just use this vehicle for fun. Cost-wise I think it would be more expensive than renting unless I go on trips more often than I have been. If e.g. the car depreciates at 3k/year over the first 5 years, it's costing me more than the 2k or so I pay now for rentals. It would also be a fixed cost, i.e. I wouldn't have the option that I have now to eliminate the expense in a financial emergency (though I could certainly sell the car later).

Basically I'm struggling with justifying spending extra money for "fun", where part of the fun in this case is pride of ownership and automobiles as a hobby. It doesn't make sense to me logically. Part of me thinks it's exciting exciting if I think of it as a reward to myself, but part of me thinks it would be extravagant and wasteful, and I should be content with cheaper hobbies. Can any of you relate and/or suggest ways I might frame the decision?
I would buy a used Wrangler because you are only going to use this on weekends, right?

So why pay all the depreciation? Buy a 2-3 year old one, and have that done with.

The 'new car smell' is actually solvents and not very good for you.

And the fun in owning a new car gets old really fast-- there's plenty of research I think that shows it disappears within 6 months.

*Experiences* generate long lasting positive feelings. That trip to Syria I took will remain with me forever (much of what I saw has been irretrievably destroyed-- it's like the Mongols sweeping in again in the 1200s). Cars I have owned? Not so much. Things don't generate those long lasting feelings.
DualIncomeNoDebt
Posts: 436
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:38 am

Re: No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by DualIncomeNoDebt »

OP, you are living the charmed transportation life. Not wasting money on a stupid depreciating asset, and avoiding a big chunk of the fees, maintenance, costly insurance, and the hell that is DMV. Also avoiding parking/storage as well. And when you do need a car, you have your pick of modern vehicles, maintained by someone else.

Don't muck it up by giving your loot to car salespersons and insurance companies. If I could, I'd jettison car, insurance, DMV and maintenance forever.

Another suggestion: a few weekends a year, splurge on convertibles or exotics. Beach trip? Rent a Porsche, Vette, Benz, etc. That will be a lot more fun, yet still much cheaper than, buying, insuring and maintaining a car, which just sits there 99% of the time, losing money.

I hate cars, I hate insuring them, and I hate gasoline costs. I despise it all, and I wish American municipalities were totally reworked so that home, work, and trade were all within walking distance.
User avatar
dumbbunny
Posts: 916
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:00 pm
Location: Oregon coast

Re: No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by dumbbunny »

Right now, I am at home waiting for a call from my auto mechanic to explain why my car won't start. It could be a $100 phone call or it could be a $400 phone call. Luckily I ride my bike as much as possible. I think renting a car like you should be my next consideration.
“It’s the curse of old men to realize that in the end we control nothing." "Homeland" episode, "Gerontion"
User avatar
Crimsontide
Posts: 729
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:32 pm
Location: DFW Metromess

Re: No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by Crimsontide »

dolphinsaremammals wrote:
sharke wrote: pride of ownership
= waste of money.
+1 you stole my line, that and the power of marketing. Even after 10 years without a vehicle it's a powerful pull...
Topic Author
sharke
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:20 pm

Re: No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by sharke »

Another suggestion: a few weekends a year, splurge on convertibles or exotics. Beach trip? Rent a Porsche, Vette, Benz, etc. That will be a lot more fun, yet still much cheaper than, buying, insuring and maintaining a car, which just sits there 99% of the time, losing money.
Ah yes, I like this suggestion. The money I'm saving by not owning should be enough to justify these little splurges.
I survived the Great Bond Crash of 2013!
User avatar
tadamsmar
Posts: 9972
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 12:33 pm

Re: No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by tadamsmar »

bloom2708 wrote:If you have driven and 1984, 1994, 2004 or 2014 you have driven a Wrangler. The 2014 might have a CD player, but they aren't that much different.
The pre-2007 Wrangler did not have ESC, so those have a 50% higher fatality rate due to that alone, not to mention other less important safety features.
Topic Author
sharke
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:20 pm

Re: No car for 10 years - should I scratch the itch?

Post by sharke »

tadamsmar wrote:
bloom2708 wrote:If you have driven and 1984, 1994, 2004 or 2014 you have driven a Wrangler. The 2014 might have a CD player, but they aren't that much different.
The pre-2007 Wrangler did not have ESC, so those have a 50% higher fatality rate due to that alone, not to mention other less important safety features.
Good point. The 2012+ models also upgraded to a modern V6 engine which improved 0-60 performance from the 10-11 second range to the 8-9 second range.

I was surprised to discover that Wranglers hold there value relatively well. One example I saw on an enthusiast forum - Carmax was willing to buy a 2012 with 26k miles that had a sticker price of $34,000 for $26,000 2 years later. Assuming it could be sold to a private buyer for a little more, and that a new one could be bought at a small discount, then factoring in tax, it might come out to something like
Buying price = $32,000 + $3,000 tax = $35,000
Insurance = $600 x 2 years = $1,200
Maintenance = $500(??) x 2 years = $1,000
-----
Total cost = $37,200
Selling Price = $27,200
----
Yearly cost of ownership (not including gas) = $5,000 ?
I survived the Great Bond Crash of 2013!
Post Reply