Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

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kwan2
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Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by kwan2 »

Hello.

I'm having a bit of a problem framing the right thing to do. In short I want to fly from SFO <-> Tokyo Jan 2015 , I have a United Card that I got for the 1 time 20,000 free miles, and never use, there is an upcoming annual fee due, maybe $85 end of October.

My flight requires 70,000 miles, but I only have 60,000, I can purchase the extra 10,000 miles, and then out the door my cost would be $414.00 (10,000 miles for $376)
and I can cancel the card as having the card, keep the miles from expiring.

OR: i can bank and keep the 60,000 for a 2nd trip which I likely will make in 2016 that will be one way, and use 35,000 miles for the 1 way, and then just not worry about using the extra 25,000 miles for anything.

Historically, I have taken this trip for about $1,100.00 a number of times, and considered it a low far, currently Phillipines Airlines has a flight for $850.00 ; if the price goes up to $950 , I'm thinking of just using the miles, but at $850.00 somehow, I'm thinking of banking the miles

any number crunchers out there ? or thoughts on how to make a decision on this ?

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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by livesoft »

I have the United card. How much would you charge on the card every year? I charge for about 60,000 miles worth, get the bonus miles for charging alot and use the 2 free airline club tickets, along with free baggage, too. There are other promotions as well. I got 50,000 free for about 5 minutes of clicking on the internet. Is it worth $85 to me? Yes.

I suppose if you got the card only for 20,000 miles, I would pay for the trip, get the miles from the trip, and look for United specials where a trip can be had for as little as 7500 miles.

I usually convert FF miles to dollars at 1 cent per FF mile, so anytime I get a flight for less than 1 cent a mile, I pay cash.
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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by Flobes »

Or you can switch to a free United Card that gives you one mile for very two dollars; no annual fee.

Then put some small recurrent monthly bill on autopay on the card. Your miles will never expire. And you don't have to think about it.

My monthly Netflix bill has been preserving my miles for years. When I retired, I gave up the "fee" United card and switched to the "free" United card.
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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by kwan2 »

hmm, there is a $900 flight on united, i could pay for that in cash, and the miles accumulate should then pay for a 2nd R/T ..

does the "free" united card require you to use it 1x/month?


the cc's i use now, i just get cash back, i don't wanna play the game, burned too many times, by false promotions, and un-usable miles myself, i have too many cc's, need to prune something i think. though, once i was able to use the free united lounge, was pretty impressive to me, the economy traveller.... but in tokyo they wouldn't let me use it ..... for some reason i forget
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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by dickenjb »

livesoft wrote: I usually convert FF miles to dollars at 1 cent per FF mile, so anytime I get a flight for less than 1 cent a mile, I pay cash.
As usual livesoft has the answer. You would not be in a "quandry" <sic> if you had in your mind a value for your miles. For me, it is 1.5 cpm (cents per mile). Domestic RT for 25K or $300 - I pay cash as I would only be getting 1.2 cpm. Flight PHL-HNL for 45K or $1000 - I used miles and realized 2.2 cpm. PHL-MUC RT for $1400 or 60K miles - I used miles and realized 2.3 cpm.

Bottom line - your miles are a currency - unless you know what that currency is worth to you, you can't make decisions on how to spend it wisely.

You can eat a meal once every 18 months to keep your Mileage Plus account alive - no need to keep a CC for that.
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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by Wagnerjb »

livesoft wrote:I usually convert FF miles to dollars at 1 cent per FF mile, so anytime I get a flight for less than 1 cent a mile, I pay cash.
I do the same.

Also, keep in mind that you might need the miles some day for an urgent trip. If you find yourself needing to (for example) go to a funeral you will probably end up paying $1300 for a domestic trip that would otherwise be $350...due to the short notice. In that case, using FF miles for the trip is a much better deal.

Buying miles from the airline is usually a bad deal. While I am not a frequent flyer, only 70,000 to Tokyo sounds like a fairly low price for a trip like that. If I had the entire 70,000 miles in my account already, I might be tempted to use miles. But the high price to buy the remaining 10,000 miles is enough to turn me off.

Best wishes.
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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by grabiner »

How much can you normally get for miles? The value depends on how easy it is to use them, and what trips you take. 1.5 cents is a good rule of thumb, if 25,000 miles normally gets you a domestic ticket that would cost $375. (This is what I use, as I live near Washington and thus can often get United frequent-flyer trips across the country. If you don't live near a hub and find domestic tickets harder to get, the miles may be less useful.)

At 1.5 cents, it isn't worth paying 70,000 miles to go to Tokyo unless the ticket costs more than $1050.
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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by 2stepsbehind »

It is a pity you don't have AA miles. Off-peak (October 1 – April 30) to Japan is only 50k round trip. Diversify, diversify, diversify!

As others have noted, miles are a currency and the savvier you are about the applicable exchange rates the more value you can extract. Given what you have written, I'd buy the $900 United ticket and take some time to learn about frequent flier miles so that you aren't in this position again. Although you've said you've been burned by miles before, that response isn't that much different than an individual who lost money in the downturn of 2007 pulling out of the stock market. You only hurt yourself by such approach. Get educated then "stay the course."
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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by Artsdoctor »

Good responses above.

For family reasons, I have had to travel A LOT over the past year. This has included emergencies and cancellations.

The best advice I can give you is to look at ALL of your frequently flyer accounts that you've amassed over the years. If all you have is United, your job will be easy. With each account, make notes on how FF miles are used, the cancellation policies and costs, and the benefits you get for having a card (free luggage, first on boarding, etc.). And there's nothing wrong with calling a representative and asking how THEY would maximize benefits: I've had some incredibly helpful pieces of advice from reps.

Two things you have to know. First, do your miles expire? Second, remember that these rules are subject to change--what you learn in 2014 may be very different than in 2015.

Some airlines are under pressure to open up more seats for FF miles and have done so beautifully; others do not.

And don't forget about travel banks. Some airlines allow you to buy a ticket and then if you find the same flight for less in the future, you can speak with a rep and they will give you the cheaper fare and put the remaining balance into a travel bank for that airline.

It took my an entire day to sit down and become familiar with all of these rules for the 6-7 airlines that I use. However, once that was done, I have saved thousands of dollars and maximized points more than I thought possible.
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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by VictoriaF »

dickenjb wrote:
livesoft wrote: I usually convert FF miles to dollars at 1 cent per FF mile, so anytime I get a flight for less than 1 cent a mile, I pay cash.
For me, it is 1.5 cpm (cents per mile). Domestic RT for 25K or $300 - I pay cash as I would only be getting 1.2 cpm. Flight PHL-HNL for 45K or $1000 - I used miles and realized 2.2 cpm. PHL-MUC RT for $1400 or 60K miles - I used miles and realized 2.3 cpm.
How do you compute the value of the miles? Let's say I am buying a round trip ticket DCA-ORD and United offers it for $275, which is 1.1 cpm (25,000 miles x 1.1 cpm = $275). As it's greater than 1 cpm, livesoft will use his miles; as it's less than 1.5 cpm, dickenjb will be paying cash.

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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by dickenjb »

VictoriaF wrote: How do you compute the value of the miles? Let's say I am buying a round trip ticket DCA-ORD and United offers it for $275, which is 1.1 cpm (25,000 miles x 1.1 cpm = $275). As it's greater than 1 cpm, livesoft will use his miles; as it's less than 1.5 cpm, dickenjb will be paying cash.

Victoria
It is obviously a personal thing. I have redeemed FF miles for 2 trips to Europe for a family of 4 and many (sorry, lost count) trips to Hawaii. Also Costa Rica. Having been able to realize 2-3 cpm consistently in the past makes me loathe to accept only 1 cpm.

It also may depend on how many miles and points you have and the experience with depreciation. I used to get 2 cpp for Marriott points, but now I am willing to accept 1 cpp. I also was sitting on 2 MM Marriott points and now have it down to 800K. Went to the National duplicate bridge tournament in Las Vegas and was able to get the Category 4 Residence Inn for $76 a night - paid cash. A few weeks later I played at the bridge regional in Hunt Valley MD where the Residence Inn was $159 a night - also a Cat 4. I used points.

The key is to have your own personal value for the currency so you can make rational decisions and not end up in a quandary.
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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by 2stepsbehind »

VictoriaF wrote:
dickenjb wrote:
livesoft wrote: I usually convert FF miles to dollars at 1 cent per FF mile, so anytime I get a flight for less than 1 cent a mile, I pay cash.
For me, it is 1.5 cpm (cents per mile). Domestic RT for 25K or $300 - I pay cash as I would only be getting 1.2 cpm. Flight PHL-HNL for 45K or $1000 - I used miles and realized 2.2 cpm. PHL-MUC RT for $1400 or 60K miles - I used miles and realized 2.3 cpm.
How do you compute the value of the miles? Let's say I am buying a round trip ticket DCA-ORD and United offers it for $275, which is 1.1 cpm (25,000 miles x 1.1 cpm = $275). As it's greater than 1 cpm, livesoft will use his miles; as it's less than 1.5 cpm, dickenjb will be paying cash.

Victoria
As dickenjb alludes to, valuation is likely to be a function of your travel preferences and mileage balance(s). If you prefer traveling internationally in premium cabins, you are likely to have a higher mileage valuation than someone who typically uses miles for domestic coach tickets. If you have over 2 million miles in a particular program, you may not care if you are only getting 1 cpm because you have more than enough miles to meet your "needs."

I would probably not spend $275 on a ticket from DCA to ORD because 9 times out of 10 I could use BA avios miles for 9k roundtrip. That's why it pays to have points in various programs so you can pick the redemption with the best value. BTW DCA-ORD on United is only 20k miles.
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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by VictoriaF »

2stepsbehind wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:How do you compute the value of the miles? Let's say I am buying a round trip ticket DCA-ORD and United offers it for $275, which is 1.1 cpm (25,000 miles x 1.1 cpm = $275). As it's greater than 1 cpm, livesoft will use his miles; as it's less than 1.5 cpm, dickenjb will be paying cash.

Victoria
As dickenjb alludes to, valuation is likely to be a function of your travel preferences and mileage balance(s). If you prefer traveling internationally in premium cabins, you are likely to have a higher mileage valuation than someone who typically uses miles for domestic coach tickets. If you have over 2 million miles in a particular program, you may not care if you are only getting 1 cpm because you have more than enough miles to meet your "needs."

I would probably not spend $275 on a ticket from DCA to ORD because 9 times out of 10 I could use BA avios miles for 9k roundtrip. That's why it pays to have points in various programs so you can pick the redemption with the best value. BTW DCA-ORD on United is only 20k miles.
Thank you, dickenjb and 2stepsbehind,

There used to be a "rule" of 2 cpm. It seems that the rule has changed and became more personalized. I will have to develop my own cpm rule, but for now, 1.5 cpm seems about right. My goal for the miles accumulation is to pay for multiple domestic flights and 2-3 annual international flights -- all in the economy. Should I use higher or lower cpm valuation?
- My most recent international flights were $2,000 IAD-Vienna, $1,000 IAD-Zurich (via Moscow), $1,100 IAD-London-Heathrow (all paid with cash). In 2015, I am planning to fly to Berlin, Barcelona, and Seoul.
- My domestic flights are usually under $500 and for the travel on the East Coast, I use Amtrak.

I need a rule for evaluating mileage earning offers as well as deciding between using miles and dollars. For example, if a new credit card offers 50,000 miles, I will value the offer anywhere between $500 and $1,000. This valuation will also influence whether I will be using this card or another one that pays cash back.

Are you saying that BA offers DCA-ORD for only 9,000 miles?

I used DCA-ORD as an example. In reality, I purchased DCA-ORD on United for $226 cash. livesoft would have used 20,000 miles, because it's over $200; but dickenjb would have used cash, too. (Last year, I paid over $300 for this flight, which in the retrospect was a mistake.)

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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by letsgobobby »

2stepsbehind wrote:It is a pity you don't have AA miles. Off-peak (October 1 – April 30) to Japan is only 50k round trip. Diversify, diversify, diversify!

As others have noted, miles are a currency and the savvier you are about the applicable exchange rates the more value you can extract. Given what you have written, I'd buy the $900 United ticket and take some time to learn about frequent flier miles so that you aren't in this position again. Although you've said you've been burned by miles before, that response isn't that much different than an individual who lost money in the downturn of 2007 pulling out of the stock market. You only hurt yourself by such approach. Get educated then "stay the course."
This is exactly right, and Flyertalk.com has much more information. I don't transact in UA miles but AA miles are worth easily 1.5 cents per mile and DL miles worth a penny on average. Knowing your exchange rate helps. Recently flights DFW-HNL become available for 35,000 AA miles, vs a per person price of $900. That was a no-brainer use of AA miles. AA is best used for overseas flights off peak (though that is all changing with the US merger). We use DL miles for trips to obscure midwestern cities, like PDX-HIB (Portland OR to Chisholm/Hibbing MN) for 25,000 DL miles rather than $800 per person cash.

In your case if you're just looking for a free flight then I'd take the bird in hand. You're saving $400 or so and it sounds like you don't fly a lot. However if you're looking to maximize the value of your points then this isn't a good use of miles (especially because you have to buy 10k for $376).
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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by 2stepsbehind »

VictoriaF wrote:
2stepsbehind wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:How do you compute the value of the miles? Let's say I am buying a round trip ticket DCA-ORD and United offers it for $275, which is 1.1 cpm (25,000 miles x 1.1 cpm = $275). As it's greater than 1 cpm, livesoft will use his miles; as it's less than 1.5 cpm, dickenjb will be paying cash.

Victoria
As dickenjb alludes to, valuation is likely to be a function of your travel preferences and mileage balance(s). If you prefer traveling internationally in premium cabins, you are likely to have a higher mileage valuation than someone who typically uses miles for domestic coach tickets. If you have over 2 million miles in a particular program, you may not care if you are only getting 1 cpm because you have more than enough miles to meet your "needs."

I would probably not spend $275 on a ticket from DCA to ORD because 9 times out of 10 I could use BA avios miles for 9k roundtrip. That's why it pays to have points in various programs so you can pick the redemption with the best value. BTW DCA-ORD on United is only 20k miles.
Thank you, dickenjb and 2stepsbehind,

There used to be a "rule" of 2 cpm. It seems that the rule has changed and became more personalized. I will have to develop my own cpm rule, but for now, 1.5 cpm seems about right. My goal for the miles accumulation is to pay for multiple domestic flights and 2-3 annual international flights -- all in the economy. Should I use higher or lower cpm valuation?
- My most recent international flights were $2,000 IAD-Vienna, $1,000 IAD-Zurich (via Moscow), $1,100 IAD-London-Heathrow (all paid with cash). In 2015, I am planning to fly to Berlin, Barcelona, and Seoul.
- My domestic flights are usually under $500 and for the travel on the East Coast, I use Amtrak.

I need a rule for evaluating mileage earning offers as well as deciding between using miles and dollars. For example, if a new credit card offers 50,000 miles, I will value the offer anywhere between $500 and $1,000. This valuation will also influence whether I will be using this card or another one that pays cash back.

Are you saying that BA offers DCA-ORD for only 9,000 miles?

I used DCA-ORD as an example. In reality, I purchased DCA-ORD on United for $226 cash. livesoft would have used 20,000 miles, because it's over $200; but dickenjb would have used cash, too. (Last year, I paid over $300 for this flight, which in the retrospect was a mistake.)

Victoria
I would probably never spend those amounts, but I don't mind connecting flights. US to Europe is 40k-60k miles + taxes. Avoid the airlines which charge crazy fuel surcharges and these likely beat your suggested 1.5 valuation.

I value a credit inquiry at $400+.

Yes. The avios award chart is based on distance and segments. DCA to ORD if direct is in the lowest category which is 4,500 each way.

edit: I personally don't believe there was ever a rule of 2 cpm. With the variability in airline pricing and travel patterns it is hard to have a set valuation. I'm sure those bloggers touting the 2 cpm are the ones with countless reviews of the shower accessories in various airline lounges i.e. hardly the typical traveler.
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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by VictoriaF »

2stepsbehind wrote: I value a credit inquiry at $400+.
Is this related to getting a new credit card for the bonus miles?

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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by 2stepsbehind »

VictoriaF wrote:
2stepsbehind wrote: I value a credit inquiry at $400+.
Is this related to getting a new credit card for the bonus miles?

Victoria
yes
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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by island »

I'm just curious, how do you all manage to find seats available with your miles?

Seems like the last few years every time we want to use our miles on United or AA there are no seats available unless we want to use even more miles to waive the restriction and that's with planning far in advance.

Used to use miles to go somewhere in the Caribbean from San Diego once a year and the last few there was always at least a leg or 2 with no seats. Same goes for simple domestic flights to visit family cross country so we just purchase and create more miles we can't redeem. Very frustrating .

So what's the secret?
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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by TravelforFun »

I use Barclay card and redeem points to pay for travel expenses. I earn at least 1 point for each dollar charged to my card. You can redeem points for cash back but you would get more value if you redeemed points to pay air fares or hotel bills. My points are easily worth 2 cents per point. No need to mess with trying to find a flight that would allow you to use ff miles. Oh and no annual fee for the card either.
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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by grabiner »

island wrote:I'm just curious, how do you all manage to find seats available with your miles?

Seems like the last few years every time we want to use our miles on United or AA there are no seats available unless we want to use even more miles to waive the restriction and that's with planning far in advance.
Try to earn points on the airline which has the most nonstops that you are likely to fly. I got my United credit card when I lived in NJ, and was able to get a Christmas ticket across the country because the flights were non-stop both ways (Newark to San Francisco, returning Los Angeles to Newark). I continue to use it because United has a hub at Dulles Airport and also some nonstops from Baltimore.

It is also now possible to use frequent-flyer miles one way and pay low fares the other way. On my last cross-country trip, I used 12,500 American Airlines miles to fly west, and with no AA award seats going East, bought a one-way ticket on Southwest for half the round-trip fare.
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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by dickenjb »

BA Avios are a unique currency due to their distance based award chart. Also using them on BA itself is a mistake due to ridiculous fuel surcharges. The 4500 mile one way Avios deal on short trips is a bargain. PHL-ORD is also under 750 miles, as is PHL-BOS and a number of other routes that can be expensive to purchase but cheap with Avios if you have them.

FlyerTalk is the Bogleheads of frequent travel. You have to pay your dues and learn their lingo just like you need to learn the lingua franca here on BH.
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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by dickenjb »

island wrote:I'm just curious, how do you all manage to find seats available with your miles?

Seems like the last few years every time we want to use our miles on United or AA there are no seats available unless we want to use even more miles to waive the restriction and that's with planning far in advance.

Used to use miles to go somewhere in the Caribbean from San Diego once a year and the last few there was always at least a leg or 2 with no seats. Same goes for simple domestic flights to visit family cross country so we just purchase and create more miles we can't redeem. Very frustrating .

So what's the secret?
My secret is to find the seats I want and then tell the agent what to book.

Typically the conversation goes:

United: I am not showing any award seats from PHL to HNL on Feb 10th.
dickenjb: Look at US XXX from PHL to PHX leaving at x:xx, connecting with US YYY to LAX and then UA ZZZ to HNL at z:zz.
United: Oh, that combination wasn't showing up on my screen! (this was before US got kicked out of Star Alliance).

One secret is many airline's web sites only show THEIR flights. Not partner flights. United will pull up LH but not TAP. ANA website will show ALL Star award seats available (except LX). Some people just search the website where they have the miles and give up if nothing shows. I am VERY willing to pay $25 booking fee per ticket to use the phone agent, especially when my research shows seats are available!

Another is a connection > 4 hours becomes a stopover on a revenue ticket but is kosher on an award.

Another trick is to use OJ (open jaw) and stopovers to your advantage. Last trip to Europe in June I booked RNO-PHL(stopover)-MUC-PHL. My wife and I booked a one way award on AA from PHL to RNO in May, then used the first leg of our UA award to get home. Later in June we "continued" on our RNO-MUC-PHL round trip. Thus we got a "free" RNO-PHL transcon as part of our 60K Europe coach award. To United, we took a 2 month stopover in Philly. Just so happens we live there.

Many tricks for both earning and burning, FlyerTalk is where to go if you want to take the time to learn them.
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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by kwan2 »

turns out the equation got simplier, as instead of PI Air, and comparable cheap flight on United popped up, so bought that one for cash.

and then now it's a matter, of to convert to a Free UA card or not, can someone tell me the pros/cons of the free UA card, mostly I just want the miles preserved, save me a call to the CS dept :) mahalo
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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by dickenjb »

kwan2 wrote:turns out the equation got simplier, as instead of PI Air, and comparable cheap flight on United popped up, so bought that one for cash.

and then now it's a matter, of to convert to a Free UA card or not, can someone tell me the pros/cons of the free UA card, mostly I just want the miles preserved, save me a call to the CS dept :) mahalo
Here is how to preserve your miles. One meal every 18 months.

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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by 2stepsbehind »

He doesn't even need to do that. He's going to fly on united--he'll have an additional 18 months from those dates.

what pros/cons do you need? Assuming you can downgrade your card the free card gives you 1 mile for every $2 in purchases verses 1 mile for every $1 with the annual fee card. You don't get the free bag benefits, lounge passes etc that come with the annual fee card. You may not also be invited to any of the "exclusive" cardmember events.
Last edited by 2stepsbehind on Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by 2stepsbehind »

island wrote:I'm just curious, how do you all manage to find seats available with your miles?

Seems like the last few years every time we want to use our miles on United or AA there are no seats available unless we want to use even more miles to waive the restriction and that's with planning far in advance.

Used to use miles to go somewhere in the Caribbean from San Diego once a year and the last few there was always at least a leg or 2 with no seats. Same goes for simple domestic flights to visit family cross country so we just purchase and create more miles we can't redeem. Very frustrating .

So what's the secret?
I live in a city with multiple airports and have large balances in several programs so I can be flexible in choosing an itinerary that makes sense/is cost effective.
How far in advance do you attempt to book? In my experience seats are widely available when the schedule first loads (~330days before the flight) and then closer to the flight (<5 weeks) after the airline has figured out its excess inventory. Of course this also depends on when you are trying to fly. For peak periods (Christmas, Thanksgiving, Memorial Day, Labor Day, summer generally) it is better to book very early particularly if you have rigid travel requirements.

Given your location and pattern of travel you might do better with Southwest Airlines, particularly if there are two of you and you get the companion pass. Southwest is a fixed value system and there are no restrictions on dates. Southwest also tends to be cheaper if you book early and they have no change fees so if the price drops you can take advantage of the savings.
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kwan2
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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by kwan2 »

so w/ the free UA card, one must purchase something ("a meal") every 18 months?

I don't believe the non-free card has that caveat?

i'm not sure if the code shares also allow the extra free bag, my code share /"alliance partner" seems to be ANA.
“The history of Paris teaches us that beauty is a by-product of danger, that liberty is at best a consequence of neglect, that wisdom is entwined with decay."
protagonist
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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by protagonist »

kwan2 wrote:Hello.

I'm having a bit of a problem framing the right thing to do. In short I want to fly from SFO <-> Tokyo Jan 2015 , I have a United Card that I got for the 1 time 20,000 free miles, and never use, there is an upcoming annual fee due, maybe $85 end of October.

My flight requires 70,000 miles, but I only have 60,000, I can purchase the extra 10,000 miles, and then out the door my cost would be $414.00 (10,000 miles for $376)
and I can cancel the card as having the card, keep the miles from expiring.

OR: i can bank and keep the 60,000 for a 2nd trip which I likely will make in 2016 that will be one way, and use 35,000 miles for the 1 way, and then just not worry about using the extra 25,000 miles for anything.

Historically, I have taken this trip for about $1,100.00 a number of times, and considered it a low far, currently Phillipines Airlines has a flight for $850.00 ; if the price goes up to $950 , I'm thinking of just using the miles, but at $850.00 somehow, I'm thinking of banking the miles

any number crunchers out there ? or thoughts on how to make a decision on this ?
If you are not flying again until 2016, you can use the miles, cancel your card, and collect enough miles via applying for other cards to pay for your 2016 trip. Canceling in time (or down-converting) will also save you your $85 annual fee. You can collect additional points that you can use on United (or several other airlines/hotels) by collecting other Chase cards (the Ink Plus and Ink Bold will give you 50K points each, the Sapphire and Freedom somewhat less, and you might be able to get another United card, I am not sure). The game is all about churning.

That said, a saving of +/- $500 is not a lot for the price of 60K miles. But if you only fly once every two years, it is probably worth it. You have plenty of time to collect another free flight and more.

The caveat is you have to have good credit, and don't even consider the game if you are not one who pays off your cards in full each month.
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kwan2
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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by kwan2 »

sorry protagonist, don't understand what you mean : "That said, a saving of +/- $500 is not a lot for the price of 60K miles. But if you only fly once every two years, it is probably worth it. You have plenty of time to collect another free flight and more."

also what is "down converting" ? you mean to a UA "free card" ?

I had thought to zero out the mileage, had a value, as I'm not intending to have a long term UA card, once I've done the best I can with the large mileage I inherited with the new UA card, and a family member...... I really don't intend to "churn" for mileage, my question just pertains to this UA card situation , thanks
“The history of Paris teaches us that beauty is a by-product of danger, that liberty is at best a consequence of neglect, that wisdom is entwined with decay."
protagonist
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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by protagonist »

kwan2 wrote:sorry protagonist, don't understand what you mean : "That said, a saving of +/- $500 is not a lot for the price of 60K miles. But if you only fly once every two years, it is probably worth it. You have plenty of time to collect another free flight and more."

also what is "down converting" ? you mean to a UA "free card" ?

I had thought to zero out the mileage, had a value, as I'm not intending to have a long term UA card, once I've done the best I can with the large mileage I inherited with the new UA card, and a family member...... I really don't intend to "churn" for mileage, my question just pertains to this UA card situation , thanks
I'm sorry if I was unclear.

If you do not intend to fly UA again, then it certainly makes sense to use the miles. The savings I was referring to was the cost of your ticket ($850-950) minus what you were paying in cash in addition to your 60K miles (I think you said $400-450 or so). Under most circumstances, you could get much more for 60K miles than the equivalent of a ~$500 savings (I recently purchased a summer RT ticket to Prague and Paris from the US with 60K UA miles- the ticket would have cost me over $2K if I paid cash). But it is certainly better to use your miles than to lose them.

Yes, I meant down-converting to a free card. Also, often if you tell the CC company that you intend to cancel, they will waive the annual fee to keep you, and sometimes also give you an additional bonus.

If your next major flight is in 2016 you have enough time to collect miles for it via credit card promotions. I was just suggesting some possible promotions.

I hope that all made sense. If you have any questions, pm me.
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kwan2
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Re: Pay cash for flight on sale, or use FF mileage quandry

Post by kwan2 »

Actually, I'm getting 2 different answers, the webpage support people say it will not be 'free' for an awards card for me but $60.00/ year.

though, by phone, they told me I must be in the last month in order to attempt to convert to a 'free' awards card.

they had no interest in converted me now, when I said I would cancel my card, maybe cause I never use it, but of course that is top secret.


what i'm curious about now is if I am able to convert to an awards card, what will be the rules for 'free bags' on international flights. as, i'd swear, i've never been charged for a 1st bag on any international flights. I want to know if the 2nd bag cost might be reduced or free with a "explorer" vs. and "awards" card, then the annual fee might be worth it for the "explorer" etc


anyone done any international travelling happen to know this?
“The history of Paris teaches us that beauty is a by-product of danger, that liberty is at best a consequence of neglect, that wisdom is entwined with decay."
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