Cost, duration of grad school?

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Post Reply
Topic Author
psteinx
Posts: 5801
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:24 pm

Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by psteinx »

Trying to think about/plan for eventual educational possibilities for my kids.

IIUC, grad school vary even more widely in cost, duration, and so on than high-level undergraduate programs, and of course the type of program is a major determinant

Let me sketch out what I *think*, and others please correct me and/or fill in.
Assume I am talking about top-30ish schools in each field.

Med School - 4 years of normal med school at ~$50K+/year, then residency at modest pay
Law School - 3 years at $50K+/year
MBA - 2 years at $50K+
Masters in accounting - 1 (sometimes 2?) year(s) at $50K+/year
Masters in education - Like accounting, but sometimes done while working
Liberal arts (English/history/sociology) masters/phd - 2 (for masters), 4+ (for phd) at ??/year (Do these students normally pay, or GET paid?
Hard sciences masters/phd - 2-4+ years (masters vs phd). Most of these students are on stipend, right? (i.e. free tuition and modest salary/stipend whatever)

When I say $50K+ above, the going rate may be closer to $60K+ now and rising, it appears...

For those who've been to med school: Assuming there is little to no undergrad debt, is it typical for parents to contribute much to med school? Do students borrow for most of it?

Is any borrowing for med school (or the others) on favorable/subsidized terms (i.e. no interest or maybe super low interest)?
Last edited by psteinx on Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
livesoft
Posts: 86075
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:00 pm

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by livesoft »

Hard sciences: you are correct. It is a job and grad students are paid.

Some of your costs are exaggerated and do not reflect the actual costs at state/public institutions. Here is one link to look at: https://www.uth.edu/fact-book/education ... ncial-aid/ where MD students pay under $15K a year for tuition & fees. Add room & board in a low cost of living place and you are talking about under $23K a year. Of course, a MD student with 4 children will probably not have such low room and board expenses.
Wiki This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.
Topic Author
psteinx
Posts: 5801
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:24 pm

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by psteinx »

livesoft - re your UT link. Interesting, but note that cost for non-residents is ~$28K. Add $12K to live on (fairly modest for rent PLUS food PLUS some entertainment etc, and you're at $40K.

We live in Missouri. The public universities here are not that strong. Not out of the question, but probably not the most likely destinations for our kids, if they go to grad school.

FWIW, Harvard Medical School looks to be close to $63K BEFORE room and board (and books). http://hms.harvard.edu/departments/offi ... n-and-fees

Yeah, that's an extreme, but I'm trying to get a feel for the range...
FinanceGeek
Posts: 989
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:27 pm

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by FinanceGeek »

psteinx wrote:Hard sciences masters/phd - 2-4+ years (masters vs phd). Most of these students are on stipend, right? (i.e. free tuition and modest salary/stipend whatever)
You didn't mention engineering as a choice, but it would be similar to the hard sciences area you quote. Most engineering fields (I'm thinking Mech, EE, CS, even Chemical) generally have better job opportunities than the hard sciences of Physics, Chemistry, Bio, etc. Most grad level engineering students with good undergrad records can get RA or TA positions that waive tuition and in many cases provide a small stipend. If they can't get into a funded grad engineering program, its probably better to start their working/earning years rather than pay for grad school. Make sure your kids understand how important a solid undergrad GPA is to open the doors to any of these opportunities.
berntson
Posts: 1366
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:10 pm

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by berntson »

psteinx wrote: Liberal arts (English/history/sociology) masters/phd - 2 (for masters), 4+ (for phd) at ??/year (Do these students normally pay, or GET paid?)
It usually depends on the quality of the program. Top Ph.D. liberal arts programs usually come with free tuition and somewhere between $25,000 to $35,000 a year (with health insurance) in exchange for a bit of research work or some light teaching. Some even come with a yearly travel allowance. Lower quality programs (and especially those at state schools) come with heavy teaching requirements in exchange for a more modest stipends. Masters programs typically do not come with a stipend and require students to pay tuition. Outside of special circumstances, no one should pay tuition for Ph.D. program in the humanities.
DVMResident
Posts: 1814
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:15 pm

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by DVMResident »

Veterinary school is 4 years. Costs are the same as medical school. Most students in my class borrowed for the whole thing. Summer jobs are common and sometimes they're even paid (+/- free room in the barn 8-) )! A few thousand over summer doesn't make much difference vs the high tuition. Unlike MDs, internship and residency are optional.

PhD in biology typically ranges in the 4-6 range, though can drag on longer (tends to max at ~8, though departments vary). In well funded areas (e.g. NIH funded areas like oncology), tuition is generally covered. You get a stipend ($30k-ish/yr) and borrowing is pretty uncommon. Post-docs are almost mandatory if you stick with academics-add 2-5 years ($40k-ish/yr).

This is going to be a very long list.
kazper
Posts: 628
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:45 pm

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by kazper »

If you are lucky the grad school will cover tuition and even provide a stipend. The stipend is not anything that will support a life of extravagance, but it does help some...

Otherwise, grad school is very expensive!!
bcjb
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:01 pm

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by bcjb »

berntson wrote:
psteinx wrote: Liberal arts (English/history/sociology) masters/phd - 2 (for masters), 4+ (for phd) at ??/year (Do these students normally pay, or GET paid?)
It usually depends on the quality of the program. Top Ph.D. liberal arts programs usually come with free tuition and somewhere between $25,000 to $35,000 a year (with health insurance) in exchange for a bit of research work or some light teaching. Some even come with a yearly travel allowance. Lower quality programs (and especially those at state schools) come with heavy teaching requirements in exchange for a more modest stipends. Masters programs typically do not come with a stipend and require students to pay tuition. Outside of special circumstances, no one should pay tuition for Ph.D. program in the humanities.
+1

And if your child isn't admitted to a top program (with fairly generous stipend), the PhD isn't worth the time & effort.
livesoft
Posts: 86075
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:00 pm

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by livesoft »

Lots of youtube videos on the subject, too. For instance, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obTNwPJvOI8
Wiki This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.
RobInCT
Posts: 396
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:58 pm

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by RobInCT »

How old are you kids? I went to grad school. I graduated with approximately $150k in student loans, which I was able to pay off entirely within 4 years because I enrolled in a program that that provided employment opportunities upon graduation good enough to manage the price of attendance. While sure, it would have been nice not to have any debt at all, I'm glad I didn't have the pressure of having parents who "planned" for me to go to grad school. Our parents paid for me and my sister to go to college. We both graduated. She has not shown any interest in grad school and has a happy, fulfilled life and a job that allows her to support herself and her family while saving for retirement.

Not everyone needs to go to grad school.
User avatar
Zapped
Posts: 216
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by Zapped »

berntson wrote:Top Ph.D. liberal arts programs usually come with free tuition and somewhere between $25,000 to $35,000 a year (with health insurance) in exchange for a bit of research work or some light teaching. Some even come with a yearly travel allowance.
I'm an engineer who left school after a BSEE although I had a fully funded grad school slot available. My kiddos are both pursuing PhDs in Computer Science at top schools, where as others have mentioned it's common to enroll with tuition waived and a reasonable stipend. Neither of them is receiving a stipend of $25K-$35K for the academic year that @berntson says liberal arts majors at top Ph.D. programs receive. Of course any well-qualified CS student can earn that much or more during summer internships.

I have never heard of that kind of stipend for PhD's in the liberal arts, by which I'm assuming we're referring to literature, history, or fine arts as examples. Do folks on this board have personal knowledge of those kinds of stipends being commonplace at "Top Ph.D. liberal arts programs"?
- Jim in Austin, TX
ourbrooks
Posts: 1575
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:56 pm

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by ourbrooks »

psteinx wrote:livesoft - re your UT link. Interesting, but note that cost for non-residents is ~$28K. Add $12K to live on (fairly modest for rent PLUS food PLUS some entertainment etc, and you're at $40K.

We live in Missouri. The public universities here are not that strong. Not out of the question, but probably not the most likely destinations for our kids, if they go to grad school.
If a state university offers a fellowship/assistantship that includes tuition, chance are that they also include in-state tuition as part of the package. Why charge themselves out of state tuition?

Also, it's very common for students to take a year or two off between undergraduate and graduate school; in fact, US News and World Report claims that only 27% go directly on to graduate school. Unless your child moves back home, chances are that he or she will be a resident of another state before starting graduate school.
If they're trying to decide where to take a job, you might raise the issue of public universities with them.

Last but not least, payment of college tuition is a fairly standard perk at many large and small companies, even including Starbucks. For truly outstanding employees, some employers even offer full time study.

There are so many routes to financial help at the graduate level that you're probably better off putting aside money for their first house down payment than for graduate degree costs.
dickenjb
Posts: 2941
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:11 pm
Location: Philadelphia PA

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by dickenjb »

I think the OP is confusing graduate school with professional school.

In graduate school you become an expert in a field. I have a PhD in chemistry. There are teaching assistantships and research fellowships that can defray most of the cost of school.

Professional school is more applied and prepares you for a profession. Think med school, vet school, law school. Very expensive.
User avatar
The529guy
Posts: 610
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 1:08 am

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by The529guy »

FinanceGeek wrote:Most grad level engineering students with good undergrad records can get RA or TA positions that waive tuition and in many cases provide a small stipend. If they can't get into a funded grad engineering program, its probably better to start their working/earning years rather than pay for grad school.
For engineering fields, I agree you should get funded for a research-based degree (MS -> PhD). I would consider a practitioner-oriented program, like a one-year MEng, to be a professional degree - something you'd have to pay for, but would hopefully increase your career opportunities.
hyla
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:45 am

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by hyla »

Science grad positions do typically pay a stipend and tuition waivers, but stipend and benefit levels vary widely between different schools and different disciplines. Anywhere from less than minimum wage to comfortable middle class salary. Also, while you're in grad school and are low income, cost of living and levels of social services in your state of residence (whether or not your state has a medicaid gap etc.) have a huge impact on whether or not your stipend is livable. The best thing you could do might just be to encourage your kids (if they decide to go to grad school) to actually compare financial offers between schools in addition to comparing the quality of programs. Many of us don't, and just take the "That project/program looks so interesting I'm going to go there!" route.
berntson
Posts: 1366
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:10 pm

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by berntson »

Zapped wrote:Of course any well-qualified CS student can earn that much or more during summer internships.
One advantage of receiving a stipend is that you get paid while not working during the summer. Combine summer funding with travel funding for a conference in the Alps and you've got yourself a pleasant summer holiday. :D
Zapped wrote: I have never heard of that kind of stipend for PhD's in the liberal arts, by which I'm assuming we're referring to literature, history, or fine arts as examples. Do folks on this board have personal knowledge of those kinds of stipends being commonplace at "Top Ph.D. liberal arts programs"?
Others should chime in. Yes, this is pretty standard, at least in the areas I'm familiar with. Some schools also offer competitive fellowship with additional funding and/or less teaching.
User avatar
The529guy
Posts: 610
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 1:08 am

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by The529guy »

berntson wrote:Yes, this is pretty standard, at least in the areas I'm familiar with
Do you mind if we ask what areas you're familiar with?
2stepsbehind
Posts: 894
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:03 am

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by 2stepsbehind »

I know a grad student in philosophy who is getting about 25k including a summer research grant so I think 20-35k is certainly in the ballpark.
bcjb
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:01 pm

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by bcjb »

Yes, 30k stipends in top history, philosophy, etc programs are fairly common. At top private universities, stipends are similar across the divisions. Before graduation, you're not going to get paid more just because you're in CS vs Near Eastern studies.
berntson
Posts: 1366
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:10 pm

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by berntson »

The529guy wrote:
berntson wrote:Yes, this is pretty standard, at least in the areas I'm familiar with
Do you mind if we ask what areas you're familiar with?
I know grad students in philosophy and English literature, though I imagine that financial packages are similar in other areas as well. You're not going to get rich going to graduate school in the humanities, but it's not a bad gig when you're at a good program. Of course, the main draw is studying something you enjoy so much you would do it even if you were already independently wealthy.
Last edited by berntson on Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
The529guy
Posts: 610
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 1:08 am

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by The529guy »

bcjb wrote:Yes, 30k stipends in top history, philosophy, etc programs are fairly common. At top private universities, stipends are similar across the divisions. Before graduation, you're not going to get paid more just because you're in CS vs Near Eastern studies.
An important question to ask these departments is (a) how many years of funding do they guarantee, and (b) how many years do their students typically need to finish. There is often a delta that sends individuals at "top private universities" scrambling to secure outside funding.
berntson
Posts: 1366
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:10 pm

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by berntson »

The529guy wrote:
bcjb wrote:Yes, 30k stipends in top history, philosophy, etc programs are fairly common. At top private universities, stipends are similar across the divisions. Before graduation, you're not going to get paid more just because you're in CS vs Near Eastern studies.
An important question to ask these departments is (a) how many years of funding do they guarantee, and (b) how many years do their students typically need to finish. There is often a delta that sends individuals at "top private universities" scrambling to secure outside funding.
Yes. If your funding is for six years, you want to finish in six years. This does not always happen. But at top programs, the finishing on time is usually easier because of the light teaching load. It's much harder to finish on time if you're teaching full classes every semester.
User avatar
Sents
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 12:24 am
Location: Nomad

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by Sents »

Engineering/Science PhD is always paid for as far as I know. The stipends vary greatly from discipline and location between 15K-35K. Common duration is 5 years +- 0.5 months now in most fields.

PS: Chemical engineering PhD at top 10 schools are all earning ~$28,000-$33,000 right now. Many don't even have to TA.
Don't only practice your art, but force your way into its secrets. For it and knowledge can raise men to the divine. | L. Beethoven
Topic Author
psteinx
Posts: 5801
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:24 pm

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by psteinx »

So, it seems that it's correct to assume that MOST multi-year hard and soft (i.e. social) sciences in good programs at top schools are likely to be tuition free + stipend, whereas the more professional oriented degrees (MD, law, MBA) and some of the shorter 1 year type masters will require tuition and not provide a stipend. About right?

So, for those pursuing law degrees, MBAs, and especially MDs, are heavily subsidized loans available? (free or low interest through school and perhaps several years beyond...)
Last edited by psteinx on Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
2stepsbehind
Posts: 894
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:03 am

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by 2stepsbehind »

psteinx wrote:So, it seems that it's correct to assume that MOST multi-year hard and soft (i.e. social) sciences in good programs at top schools are likely to be tuition free + stipend, whereas the more professional oriented degrees (MD, law, MBA) and some of the shorter 1 year type masters will require tuition and not provide a stipend. About right?

So, among those pursuing law degrees, MBAs, and especially MDs, are heavily subsidized loans available? (free or low interest through school and perhaps several years beyond...)
no
bigred77
Posts: 2049
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:53 pm

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by bigred77 »

psteinx wrote:So, it seems that it's correct to assume that MOST multi-year hard and soft (i.e. social) sciences in good programs at top schools are likely to be tuition free + stipend, whereas the more professional oriented degrees (MD, law, MBA) and some of the shorter 1 year type masters will require tuition and not provide a stipend. About right?

So, for those pursuing law degrees, MBAs, and especially MDs, are heavily subsidized loans available? (free or low interest through school and perhaps several years beyond...)
Definately not alot of free or low interest loans through school or beyond.

Possibility of some subsidized stafford loans available (0% while a student) but the max will be like 5k/yr and you have to be a full time student with very little income to qualify.

With no parental support, Full - Time Law, MBA, and MD students typically graduate with over $100k in student loans. Its not uncommon at all.
Jack FFR1846
Posts: 18499
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:05 am
Location: 26 miles, 385 yards west of Copley Square

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

If the student is single, consider being a resident advisor in a dorm. The stipent will cover a good part of room and board. I did this and my responsibilities was every 4 th night duty (4 floor dorm)

I also took classes during the summer which allowed me to finish my msee in 18 months.

I was also offered a ta position.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid
User avatar
seeshells
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:43 am

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by seeshells »

Consider, education's current annual appreciation, Its certainly more than inflation+, and unsustainable imo. No one knows where educations headed, just my .02. Good luck,
Last edited by seeshells on Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
mlipps
Posts: 1099
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:35 am

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by mlipps »

bigred77 wrote:
psteinx wrote:So, it seems that it's correct to assume that MOST multi-year hard and soft (i.e. social) sciences in good programs at top schools are likely to be tuition free + stipend, whereas the more professional oriented degrees (MD, law, MBA) and some of the shorter 1 year type masters will require tuition and not provide a stipend. About right?

So, for those pursuing law degrees, MBAs, and especially MDs, are heavily subsidized loans available? (free or low interest through school and perhaps several years beyond...)
Definately not alot of free or low interest loans through school or beyond.

Possibility of some subsidized stafford loans available (0% while a student) but the max will be like 5k/yr and you have to be a full time student with very little income to qualify.

With no parental support, Full - Time Law, MBA, and MD students typically graduate with over $100k in student loans. Its not uncommon at all.
No subsidized loans for grad students anymore, but also the limits on borrowing are much higher for grad students as well (for better or for worse).
stoptothink
Posts: 15368
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:53 am

Re: Cost, duration of grad school?

Post by stoptothink »

Zapped wrote:
berntson wrote:Top Ph.D. liberal arts programs usually come with free tuition and somewhere between $25,000 to $35,000 a year (with health insurance) in exchange for a bit of research work or some light teaching. Some even come with a yearly travel allowance.
I'm an engineer who left school after a BSEE although I had a fully funded grad school slot available. My kiddos are both pursuing PhDs in Computer Science at top schools, where as others have mentioned it's common to enroll with tuition waived and a reasonable stipend. Neither of them is receiving a stipend of $25K-$35K for the academic year that @berntson says liberal arts majors at top Ph.D. programs receive. Of course any well-qualified CS student can earn that much or more during summer internships.

I have never heard of that kind of stipend for PhD's in the liberal arts, by which I'm assuming we're referring to literature, history, or fine arts as examples. Do folks on this board have personal knowledge of those kinds of stipends being commonplace at "Top Ph.D. liberal arts programs"?
Have no idea about liberal arts PhD's, but I can speak for exercise physiology/kinesiology. My stipend was quite a bit less than $25k as well. A LOT of research, but very little teaching at a top program in the my particular niche field (Kinesiology-Obesity Studies). One of my best friends just began his PhD in exercise physiology at a decent program (Utah College of Health) and his stipend is significantly less than mine was a few years ago. He's running a pretty big lab and works a ton of hours, but I don't think he has any teaching requirements.
Post Reply