Considering buying a Plug-in Prius or a Volt

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playtothebeat
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Considering buying a Plug-in Prius or a Volt

Post by playtothebeat »

My wife and I have been discussing this over the last few days. This is a direct result of the recent position my wife took which now has a 100 mile roundtrip commute four days a week (Irvine to Century City, for those who are familiar with OC/LA area - yep, it's brutal). She's an attorney - her group took its book of business to a new firm, which is now in Century City. They incentivized her properly with a promotion/raise/etc; we love where we live, and don't want to move, especially with having a 10 month old son (Irvine is fantastic for raising a family).

So, we've been looking at getting either a Prius or a Volt, due to both improved gas mileage, and access to the HOV lane as a single rider. Frankly, I think the second point is more important than the first for her, as it could save her some time (especially on the drive home, which has been less than pleasant so far).

From what I've been able to gather:
- Cost: The Prius will cost roughly $28k (base model); Chevy is closer to $34k. Prius is eligible for a $2,500 federal tax credit; Volt $7,500. Both qualify for a CA rebate of $1,500. With this in mind, perhaps the "net" price is closer than it looks between the two.
- Electric/Gas Range: the Prius will go something like 6-12 miles on "electric power" only, provided that you drive below certain speeds (i think somethingl ike 35 mph); Volt will go around 30-40 miles regardless of speed. MPG after that is about 50 for the Prius, about 36 for the Volt. Given that most of her commute is on the freeway, it appears that the Volt may be a better choice. I like the fact that the volt can also be a main commute car if she gets a job closer to home, as you can truly go weeks without using any gas.
- Charging time: With a standard outlet, the Prius gets a full charge in something like 3 hours, whereas the Volt can take 9 hours or even longer even with a 240V outlet.
- Interior room: the Prius appears to be a better bet here, and it sits 5. We'll be switching our little one to a rear-facing "convertible" car seat this weekend (as opposed to one of those "pop-out" versions, as he's now outgrowing it); I'm worried that the Volt may be really tight in that regard, especailly since it does not have a middle seat.
- Features: I think the Volt is generally considered more "upscale", although not sure if it's a material difference.
- Maintenance/warranty: Both seem to provide maintenance for the first 24k miles, and come with a similar warranty, although I generally think higher of Toyota quality than Chevy (however, I've owned neither brands to this day.)

We currently have a 2005 Mazda 6 which has no car payment, which she would otherwise use as her commuter car. It needs abotu $700-800 of repairs right now, but I'm holding off on putting money into it until we decide if we're keeping the car or trading it in for one of the above. Having a car payment would be a bummer, and although there is some benefit of using less gas, I think the gas savings are only about $100/month, where as the car payment would be significantly higher, so from a purely "financial" standpoint, I understand that this isn't a great decision. We can afford the payments without any issues, although we know it's not ideal as we're actively working on saving funds to be able to refinance our horriffic mortgage (that's a whole other really long story).

Would love to hear some input from the folks here regarding the choices, as well as regarding "the car buying experience" in general, as I haven't bought a car since 2007, and seems like things have changed with all the services like TrueCar, Costco Auto, etc.
Last edited by playtothebeat on Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
dpc
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Re: Considering buying a Prius or a Volt

Post by dpc »

I don't own either, but the Prius has a proven track record - there are millions of them out there. If you just want a reliable car that gets good gas mileage, I'd go with the Prius.

The Volt drive train is fundamentally different than the Prius. The Volt is only driven by the electric motors. The small engine runs a generator that supplies electricity to charge the batteries and supply electricity to the motors. The Prius is a hybrid system where the engine is supplemented by electric motors. As an engineer, I'm am very impressed with the design of the Volt. But the reliability is an unknown.

You might also think about a Volkswagen diesel. But if there is a lot of stop and go driving, I suspect that the Prius would probably do better in mileage. The Volt should do even better, although I think Prius has a weight advantage.
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Re: Considering buying a Prius or a Volt

Post by chaz »

The Prius.
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Re: Considering buying a Prius or a Volt

Post by TimeRunner »

Since you are in California, this article from today's LA Times is timely too. Headline: Bill would cap income eligibility for state's clean-vehicle rebates"

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/l ... story.html
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Buysider
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Re: Considering buying a Prius or a Volt

Post by Buysider »

You may want to look a little closer - I don't think the cars are that comparable.

Plug-in Prius is about $5k more than a regular Prius. I guess the HOV may be worth that for you.

Fuel economy between the 2 vehicles as you describe it is almost identical. 100 miles/day - the Prius Plug-in will use a hair less than 1.9 gallons of gas per day. The Volt will get most of the way there in the morning on electric. You don't say whether your wife can charge at work, but assuming not, she's back at 38 mpg on the way home. 1.75 gallons of gas per day.

The size is the big difference. Try putting your car seats in the Volt. Only 2 seatbelts in the back seat and a tighter feel than the Prius, which has a huge trunk and seats three in the back row...
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tuningfork
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Re: Considering buying a Prius or a Volt

Post by tuningfork »

Although cost doesn't seem to be a major factor for you, one thing to consider is if you keep the car long enough you will need to replace the batteries. A friend with a Prius just spent $3500 for a new battery (I don't recall when he bought the Prius, maybe 5 or 6 years ago). That would offset some of the savings on gasoline compared to a gasoline-only car. The Volt will probably have similar expenses as it gets older.

I own neither car but I know several people with Prii and they all love them. I don't know anyone with a Volt although I see some on the road.

You can look at truedelta.com for car reliability ratings.
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Gattamelata
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Re: Considering buying a Prius or a Volt

Post by Gattamelata »

I enjoy driving my Volt. My daily commute is right inside the winter electric range, so I only use gas when I take longer trips. I think I've filled the tank four times in the year I've had it.

My replies to your OP are inline and based on my experience with it:
playtothebeat wrote: - Charging time: With a standard outlet, the Prius gets a full charge in something like 3 hours, whereas the Volt can take 9 hours or even longer even with a 240V outlet.
This sounded wrong to me, so I went and checked my text message history (the car texts me when it's done charging). It's closer to 5 or 6 hours on the 240V charger for a complete charge. That may not make a huge difference in your calculation, but for me the fact that it charges easily in the time I'm sleeping is significant when I get home late at night and have to leave in the morning.
playtothebeat wrote: - Interior room: the Prius appears to be a better bet here, and it sits 5. We'll be switching our little one to a rear-facing "convertible" car seat this weekend (as opposed to one of those "pop-out" versions, as he's now outgrowing it); I'm worried that the Volt may be really tight in that regard, especailly since it does not have a middle seat.
If you or your wife have long legs and need to extend the front seat all the way back, there is very, very little legroom in the rear seat behind. Then again, there's plenty for my long legs in the driver's seat.

Additionally: the visibility in the Volt is lower than I'd like. The steeply angled front pillars are very thick, I'm told so that the car would have a five star roll-over rating. Whatever the reason, they frequently obscure entire pedestrians from my view. After a couple of episodes where I just didn't see somebody walking into a crosswalk, I've learned to peek around the pillar when I'm at a stop sign. It's not a deal-breaker for me, but it's not great. In addition, with the driver's seat all the way back, the side pillar is about as far from the front of the car as my head, which makes checking my left blind spot more difficult than I'd like.

I'd definitely test drive both of them.
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Re: Considering buying a Prius or a Volt

Post by bigfun »

I had the opportunity to go for a spin in a Volt, and at 5'9" I felt very uncomfortable in the back seat. My head was touching the roof. It's a shame they had to make the car so small, though it does suit a lot of drivers.
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Re: Considering buying a Prius or a Volt

Post by bubbadog »

What about a used prius?
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Re: Considering buying a Prius or a Volt

Post by playtothebeat »

bubbadog wrote:What about a used prius?
Seems like they're hard to find with an HOV sticker - I wouldn't buy one that isn't HOV-eligible, as gas savings alone aren't worth the added car payment (which is also why a diesel isn't going to work)
Perhaps someone can correct me if i'm wrong, but my understanding is that the sticker transfers with the car, and that you can't get the sticker for a used car if it doesn't have one already (even if it's on the list of eligible cars)
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Re: Considering buying a Prius or a Volt

Post by rj49 »

Have you looked at the Honda Accord plug-in hybrid? It seems more family-car oriented, and since it also allows running just on electricity, might give higher fuel savings over a Prius. It's also eligible for HOV in CA, along with the usual tax credits.

The next-generation Prius is supposed to have an upgraded battery that will bump up the MPG even higher and have other improvements, so you might want to wait, in order to avoid buyer's remorse. It was supposed to be out this year, but evidently is being pushed back to 2015.
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Re: Considering buying a Prius or a Volt

Post by curmudgeon »

I thought the green HOV stickers (for plug-in hybrids) were about to hit their max limit allowed in the law. I don't follow that closely; maybe there has been an extension. It would be pretty annoying to buy with the expectation of a sticker and then find it is no longer available.
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Re: Considering buying a Prius or a Volt

Post by grsimmon »

There are a couple of issues with any electric car that don't get mentioned much (although once was someone above).

1) Replacing the battery - it's guaranteed to happen (depending on how long you own the car) and expensive. I think at least $3,500 ?

2) Ethanol / alcohol present in most gas these days in the US. This can potentially be an issue for hybrids where not much gas is used and therefore sits in the tank for a long time. Depends on your driving habits. But, alcohol sitting in any car's system for long periods deteriorates numerous parts and attracts water - bad.

For those 2 reasons I won't consider electrics or hybrids. Perhaps consider diesel like Chevy Cruze, VW Passat/Sportwagen, etc.
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Re: Considering buying a Prius or a Volt

Post by AJTrenkle »

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Re: Considering buying a Prius or a Volt

Post by jimb_fromATL »

I'd say go with the Prius ... if you're sure you want an electric car of any kind.

Chances are you'll never make up the extra cost of the Prius plug-in version over a regular Prius, since they'll get about the same gas mileage and the most it can save is less than 1/4 of a gallon of gas per day. In fact, it's doubtful that either version of the Prius or a Volt will actually save you any money over a much less expensive 35-40 mpg gas only car; especially if you keep it long enough to have to replace the battery.

So IMO it really boils down to how much it's worth to have access to the HOV lanes. And maybe whether the inconvenience of having to plug in and unplug every day is outweighed by getting to use the HOV lanes.

IMO one big factor in favor of the Prius is that Toyota has done a fantastically good engineering job making the Prius dependable. GM doesn't have such a great reputation for that. So chances are the Prius will give less trouble and will depreciate less in the long run.

If you do keep it long enough to need to replace the battery, it will most likely negate all the savings for gas; but the Volt battery will no doubt cost a lot more than the Prius battery, since it has a much higher capacity -- and thus a lot more raw materials. I'd guess that since it's used more, the Volt battery probably won't last as long, either. (Nobody knows for sure, but it appears that the 180K that Toyota defines as the life of the car is probably about average life of the battery.)

Another factor is the extra cost of installing a 240-volt charger for the Volt. Chances are you could do without it for the Prius.

Another minor factor is that in addtion to using more gas once you've used up the plug-in charge, I've read that the Volt requires premium gas, which will cost more too.

Here are some ways to think about how much it might cost for one over the other:
  • For a 100 mile commute, if the Prius will go 10 miles on electricity then get 50 mpg for the other 90 miles it will use about 1.8 gallons of gas. At $3.75 per gallon for regular, that's $6.75 per day.

    If the Volt will go 30 miles on its charge then get 34 mpg for the remaining 70 miles it will use 2.06 gallons of gas, which at perhaps $4.05 for premium gas will cost $8.34 per day. So the Prius will save around $1.59 per day on gas.

    Assuming perhaps 3.5 kwh of electricity per mile on plug-in power, the Prius will use about 2.86 kwh of electricity per day. At perhaps $.15 per kwh, that's $0.43 making the cost for fuel a total of $7.18 per day.

    At about the same 3.5 kwh per mile, the Volt will use about 8.57 kwh which will cost about $1.29 making the total cost for fuel about $9.62 per day.

    So the Volt will cost about $2.45 more per day. Since it's heavier than the Prius, chances are the Volt won't be as efficient per KWH on electricity, so will probably cost a few cents more for electricity.

In summary, for commuting 100 miles per day 50 weeks per year, the Prius would cost around $718 for gas and electricity. The Volt would be around $962.

SInce the Volt will cost more to purchase and to operate, I don't see how it can be the better choice even if everything else were equal. However, the Prius does have more routine maintenance items since it has a transmission and gas engine that also require periodic maintenance. And the battery replacement is bound to cost more for the Volt. By the way, since the capacity and amount of raw material is more for the Plug-in Prius, it's a pretty sure thing that its battery will cost more too. As I understand it, the biggest part of the difference in price for a new one over a regular Prius is the extra cost of the battery.

So .. if you keep it a long time, it will be interesting to see how the extra complexity of the Prius with its outstanding engineering will compare to the less complicated Volt with what I suspect is likely to be turn out to be lower quality and dependability.

All things considered, I'd still go with the Prius if the extra cost for either one is justified enough by access to the HOV lanes.

jimb
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Re: Considering buying a Prius or a Volt

Post by FreemanB »

To those concerned with the expense of replacing a Prius battery pack, that is not as big of an issue as many people would have you believe. First of all, I've had two Prius that were driven for 6+ years and well over 100k miles each and never had a battery issue.(Both were replaced for other, non-mechanical reasons) Second, even if you do reach the point of replacing the battery, there's no reason to spend the money to install a brand new $3500 battery in a car that is probably only worth around $6k at that point.(Based on when the battery warranty expires, that's a rough idea of the Blue Book value) Instead, there's a relatively healthy market of used, re-conditioned batteries that are perfect for this scenario.(They are available because the batteries often outlast the car) I've seen prices, installed, of less than $1000, often as low as $500-$600. The article below details the author's experience in Houston, but there are many other repair shops that offer the same service.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tonybradley ... f-dollars/
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Re: Considering buying a Prius or a Volt

Post by hyla »

I have a 2005 prius (not plug in, regular) that I bought used with 145,000 miles. It now has 170,000 miles and is still in good shape mechanically. I was worried about potential battery failure when I bought - talked to my mechanic about it - it sounds like most batteries last the life of the car fine, but if you do get unlucky and your battery goes early it would be expensive. I have had no problems with my battery and my car's getting up there in miles now! Also, if you're comparing roominess, the Prius is about as good as a midsize hatchback can be, and folding the seats down lets you fit bulky/long stuff. I recently transported two people, and two dogs, and two bicycles (wheels still attached!) inside mine!
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Re: Considering buying a Prius or a Volt

Post by heyyou »

We bought a used 2006 Prius a couple of years ago, and we like it. If and when it needs a major repair, we will take it to an independent shop specializing in hybrids that doesn't charge dealer prices, then keep on driving.

Where is the chorus of dissatisfied Prius owners whose batteries died young?

Last year, Scott Burns gave his 10 year old Prius to his granddaughter.

http://assetbuilder.com/scott_burns/prius_at_ten
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I have both. I love my Volt.

Post by Bammerman »

We have two cars, a 2010 Prius and a 2013 Volt. Both are very good cars. The Volt is much more fun to drive: it's more solidly-built, quieter, more luxurious and more powerful than the Prius. The Volt does have less leg room in the rear seats, if that's an issue for you. And it is a 4-seater, not a 5-seater like the Prius. And yes, it does require hi-test gas. On the other hand, I have burned just 16.5 gallons of gas (total) to drive 3,850 miles. (The Prius would have needed about 80 gallons of gas for the same distance, at 48 MPG.) For your wife's commute, a big issue is whether her employer would provide a charge point to plug in at so she can recharge the Volt while she's at work. I would say that both cars have less-than-perfect side/rear visibility; this is a result of their very similar aerodynamic shape. I do not think there's any significant difference between them on that issue. The Volt does not make the hellacious (sp?) beeping when in Reverse that the Prius makes.
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Re: I have both. I love my Volt.

Post by Jeff Albertson »

Bammerman wrote:The Volt does not make the hellacious (sp?) beeping when in Reverse that the Prius makes.
prius beep -
http://priuschat.com/threads/disabling- ... eep.37380/
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Re: Considering buying a Prius or a Volt

Post by dognose »

The Prius is a great car. The Volt isn't.
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Re: Considering buying a Prius or a Volt

Post by indexfundfan »

I used to own a 2012 Plug-in Prius but sold it for the 2014 Volt.

The Volt is more fun to drive and its electric range suits my commute. In summer, the electric range for me is about 48 miles. The electric range on the PiP is insufficient for my commute. The PiP is definitely more spacious.

Price-wise, after taxes and rebates, both the cars are about the same. There are two dealerships in Northern LA that are discounted the Volt heavily, typically at > $4000 off MSRP. If you are buying a Volt, you should definitely talk to these two dealerships which are in your area.

Originally there were 40,000 green stickers for the HOV lanes. After they ran out, another 15,000 were added. Some project that this 15,000 will run out before the end of this year.
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Re: Considering buying a Prius or a Volt

Post by mike143 »

Check out priuschat.com. There are people that have gone from the Prius to the Volt you can read their reasons. We have a 2013 Prius Two since the end of January with just under 9k on it now with a average of 49.4 mpg since new, paid $23k OTD. My wife's commute was getting further and further and of course shortly after getting the Prius she lost her job. Only way I would consider a Volt is if I was in California with the $7.5k rebate.

Edit: Just realized you are looking at the Prius Plug-in, might want to update your title from "Prius" to "Prius Plug-in". We have the normal non-Plug-in Prius. If she can plug-in at work the Volt would be the obvious choice.

Edit 2: My general research found that Prius batteries wear out due to age not mileage. You can expect 8-10 years....or more. Often when they fail its one or more of the 28 modules. The pack can be rebalanced and bad modules can be replaced. Several people have reached over 300k: http://priuschat.com/threads/299-999-mile-club.79235/
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playtothebeat
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Re: Considering buying a Prius or a Volt

Post by playtothebeat »

Lots of great responses here, appreciate it.

I plan on looking at both this weekend at some local dealerships.

My wife does have the ability to plug in and charge at work. I believe it cost saround $0.75/hr.

My concern with the Volt is room in the back - our son's car seat is quite bulky (Recarro), and i'm not sure if it will work in the Volt. However, that's one of the reasons I plan to bring the car seat with me to the dealer when it comes to test driving..

I'm also a bit hesitant about Chevy's quality vs Toyota. Seems like Toyota has established themselves at this point as a leader when it comes to hybrid technology, where as it's still relatively new for Chevy. I wonder if in 5-6-7 years, the Prius would hold up better than the Volt.

The big selling factor for the Volt is the long electric range. If my wife was to get a job closer to home in the next few years, she could theoretically commute purely on electric charge, which wouldn't be so bad.
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Re: Considering buying a Plug-in Prius or a Volt

Post by mike143 »

There is a dealer in CA that is pretty active on the priuschat.com forum, make sure you check her prices: http://priuschat.com/threads/diannes-so ... nge.142686

Bring the car seat and your entire child setup when you shop and throw it all in and make sure it fits and leaves you enough room for future needs.
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Re: Considering buying a Prius or a Volt

Post by dickenjb »

tuningfork wrote:Although cost doesn't seem to be a major factor for you, one thing to consider is if you keep the car long enough you will need to replace the batteries. A friend with a Prius just spent $3500 for a new battery (I don't recall when he bought the Prius, maybe 5 or 6 years ago).
I think you recall wrong as the Prius comes with an 8 year, 100,000 mile battery warranty. Or maybe your friend drives in excess of 20K miles per year.
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mike143
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Re: Considering buying a Prius or a Volt

Post by mike143 »

dickenjb wrote:
tuningfork wrote:Although cost doesn't seem to be a major factor for you, one thing to consider is if you keep the car long enough you will need to replace the batteries. A friend with a Prius just spent $3500 for a new battery (I don't recall when he bought the Prius, maybe 5 or 6 years ago).
I think you recall wrong as the Prius comes with an 8 year, 100,000 mile battery warranty. Or maybe your friend drives in excess of 20K miles per year.
California actually gets a better warrant of 10 year or 150k than the standard 8 year or 100k on the hybrid components. Toyota's own words for a 2014 Prius: "Hybrid vehicle battery expected life is 150,000 miles based on laboratory bench testing."
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Re: Considering buying a Plug-in Prius or a Volt

Post by Epsilon Delta »

playtothebeat wrote:- Electric/Gas Range: the Prius will go something like 6-12 miles on "electric power" only, provided that you drive below certain speeds (i think somethingl ike 35 mph); Volt will go around 30-40 miles regardless of speed. MPG after that is about 50 for the Prius, about 36 for the Volt. Given that most of her commute is on the freeway, it appears that the Volt may be a better choice. I like the fact that the volt can also be a main commute car if she gets a job closer to home, as you can truly go weeks without using any gas.
.
For a 100 mile commute the fact that the Prius will run in blended mode rather than full electric mode does not matter. As long as the battery starts fully charged and fully discharged* at the end of the journey it will have used the whole 4kWh and saved you 1/5 of a gallon of gas. You'll save the same 1/5 gallon if the electric energy is used evenly over the whole 100 miles or all in the first 10 or (as happens in practice) over the first 20 or so miles.

It would matter if you had a much shorter commute. If your trip was 8 highway miles the plug-in battery would not be fully depleted at the end of the and you would end up consuming some gas, even though you drive less than the "electric range".

* As defined by the software, i.e. the plug-in is running like a regular Prius at the end.
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Re: Considering buying a Plug-in Prius or a Volt

Post by Buysider »

My wife does have the ability to plug in and charge at work. I believe it cost saround $0.75/hr.
If this is the case you should consider a pure electric ... Since you live in CA, there are a large number of EV vehicles, many sold only in CA. Honda Fit / Accord EV, Ford Focus Electric, etc. Nissan Leaf is very common. All of them have real world 80+ mile range. So Cal has a high density of public chargers. If you charge at home and at work, she would always have an extra 30-50 miles of range to run errands during the day/on the way home...
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Re: Considering buying a Plug-in Prius or a Volt

Post by madbrain »

The Prius is a great car.
However, IMO the Plug-in Prius is not worth the extra $5k over the regular Prius.
Even if you have a relatively short commute, the Prius cannot run 100% electric at freeway speeds. And the battery is too small.
IMO, the Plug-in Prius should be considered only if you must have the HOV stickers. Otherwise, save yourself the $5k and go with a regular Prius.

The Volt is a good car, but is much smaller than the Prius. It is 4 seater vs 5. The rear console in the middle is really a big problem IMO, preventing it from being used to cargo any large items.
The small interior size is the main reason we did not buy or lease a Volt.

In our household, we have one regular (non plug-in) 2011 Prius, purchased, and one 2012 Leaf (leased).

I chose the Leaf over the Volt. The Leaf has too limited range, and I would only recommend it for commutes under daily 50 miles round-trip . At freeway speeds, in hilly terrain, the Leaf really has a range of about 65 miles, not 80 . And it drops down to 50-55 miles in the winter with the use of the heater. The EPA range is measured with blended speeds, but this is in inadequate for EVs, as usually on a long trip, you will be driving high speeds. Only the freeway range really matters. IMO, the EPA should change its methodology for EV range.

IMO, the only no-compromise EV on the market right now is the Tesla S, but it is very pricey. When I return my Leaf at the end of its lease in January 2016, I will be looking to lease a Tesla 3, if its specs, prices and availability are known. I may extend my Leaf lease a few months if the Tesla 3 is just around the corner. If not, I am not what I will do. Maybe buy a used Tesla S if I can find one at a decent price then.
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playtothebeat
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Re: Considering buying a Plug-in Prius or a Volt

Post by playtothebeat »

Buysider wrote:
My wife does have the ability to plug in and charge at work. I believe it cost saround $0.75/hr.
If this is the case you should consider a pure electric ... Since you live in CA, there are a large number of EV vehicles, many sold only in CA. Honda Fit / Accord EV, Ford Focus Electric, etc. Nissan Leaf is very common. All of them have real world 80+ mile range. So Cal has a high density of public chargers. If you charge at home and at work, she would always have an extra 30-50 miles of range to run errands during the day/on the way home...
I don't think's practical at this point. As much as I would love to get a pure electric, I just can't rely on that right now. There is always a chance that all of the chargers in her parking lot are taken by the time she gets to work. With a 50 mile one-way commute, I just don't think any true electrics (other than a Tesla) are practical.
madbrain wrote:IMO, the Plug-in Prius should be considered only if you must have the HOV stickers. Otherwise, save yourself the $5k and go with a regular Prius.
I agree with this, and the reason for the Plugin would be purely for the sticker. Financially, it's not a good choice. However, if it means she gets to come home 15 minutes earlier by being able to drive in the HOV lane, that would be worth it to us with a newborn at home.
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Re: Considering buying a Plug-in Prius or a Volt

Post by BigFoot48 »

You should add the Ford C-Max Energi to your list of cars to test drive. I own one and its the best car, out of 14, I've owned for ride comfort and driving pleasure. It seats five adults. I have not driven a Prius or Volt but people on the C-Max forum who also own or had owned those generally prefer the C-Max.

I typically get 20-25 miles on a charge which costs about $0.75 ($0.11kWh). I estimate I'm saving about $600 a year in gasoline purchases, net of electricity used, over my previous car, a Honda Odyssey which got 18-24MPG.
Retired | Two-time in top-10 in Bogleheads S&P500 contest; 18-time loser
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ualdriver
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Re: Considering buying a Plug-in Prius or a Volt

Post by ualdriver »

I own both a Plug-in Prius (Advanced) and a Chevy Volt.

I think most of the posters above have covered the majority of what you should consider, so I won't rehash.

It does drive me a bit nutty, however, when people post about having to replace the batteries in electric cars. The batteries will likely last THE LIFE OF THE CAR. There are people who use Prius as taxis and have a few hundred thousand miles on their vehicles, and the batteries continue to work just fine. The Volt hasn't been around as long, but the engineers really took a lot of steps to "baby" the battery. Is it possible that you might be the exception? Absolutely- just like their are people who get lemons in any other car brand. But with the CA state warranty, I wouldn't sweat it for a second. Heck, I wouldn't even worry about it even if the CA warranty didn't exist.

Both my Volt and my Prius are fully equipped with all the bells and whistles. The Volt is my favorite car. It's perkier, has more eye candy inside, looks nicer, and has a more solid ride IMO. I still think it's the best car I have owned. But it's smaller than the Prius, so if you're carrying more than 2 people regularly, you have to check out that back seat as mentioned above. The back seat is fine for kids, but for an adult approaching 5' 10" or so, his/her head gets real close to the hatchback glass and there isn't a ton of legroom if you have tall front seat passengers with their front seats all the way back.

The Plug-in Prius is not chopped liver either. It's a very nice car. The "plug-in" premium over the regular Prius is not worth it IMO, and the only reason I got it was because I stole it from the dealer who just wanted it off the lot. We get about 15 miles electric range during the most of the year, and around 11 miles in the winter. If your wife is driving 100+ miles, I'd get the Advanced model (the Prius Plug-In only comes in 2 flavors, Base and Advanced) simply because it has the nicer interior, larger touch screen, and the active cruise control (VERY nice to have if you drive a lot on the highway). It's bigger than the Volt, and is our choice of car whenever we go as a family farther than the 30 mile-ish (winter) and 50 mile-ish (rest of year) electric range of the Volt.

Keyes Chevy down in Van Nuys, CA is always on the Volt forum with VERY low prices (I have no relationship with him). If you do buy a Volt, I'd call that dealership even if you don't live nearby and get a quote from him over the phone. Tell him you saw his posts on the GM Volt forum. He'll give you a no-haggle price that will likely be lower than just about anyone in the country. Dianne's prices on the PriusChat forums (as described above) are OK, but if you're a good haggler you should be able to beat her prices. And I would haggle hard for whatever Plug-In Prius model you get. They're very slow sellers, so you should be able to negotiate a very good deal if you're aggressive and shop around.
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Re: Considering buying a Plug-in Prius or a Volt

Post by madbrain »

ualdriver wrote:The batteries will likely last THE LIFE OF THE CAR. There are people who use Prius as taxis and have a few hundred thousand miles on their vehicles, and the batteries continue to work just fine.
And then of course there is my case. I had to replace the battery on my 2001 Prius in 2009 at 94k miles. The car was 8 years 3 months - the hybrid battery was 3 months out of warranty.
On the 2001 Prius model, the first US model, the battery warranty was only 8 years / 100k miles, whichever happens first.
Even though it is a hybrid, the Prius will not function at all with a dead hybrid battery.
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mmmodem
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Re: Considering buying a Plug-in Prius or a Volt

Post by mmmodem »

playtothebeat wrote:
madbrain wrote:IMO, the Plug-in Prius should be considered only if you must have the HOV stickers. Otherwise, save yourself the $5k and go with a regular Prius.
I agree with this, and the reason for the Plugin would be purely for the sticker. Financially, it's not a good choice. However, if it means she gets to come home 15 minutes earlier by being able to drive in the HOV lane, that would be worth it to us with a newborn at home.
Actually after government rebates, both the Volt and Prius Plug-in will cost the same or less than a comparably equipped Prius. I own a base model Prius Plug-in. It was a no-brainer to choose the Plug-in model even if I never plan to plug it in because it was the same cost as regular Prius. Having said that, I would absolutely choose the Volt over the PiP. Here's why:

1. Longer electric range: At my electric costs and CA gasoline cost, if a 1-way commute is between 11-70 miles, the Volt is more cost efficient due to the larger battery. Outside that range, the Prius is more cost efficient due to more efficient gasoline engine and lower curb weight of the vehicle.
2. Electricity cost is VERY expensive in CA: My math said that at Tier 3 rates of $0.30/kWh and $4 a gallon gas, it cost more to plug in my car than driving on Prius. Switch to TOU rates or get solar. $0.75 charging at work I assume at L2 3.3kW is about $0.25/kWh. The Volt is the clear winner in cost for your use.
3. Your charging time for the Volt is incorrect: It's 10-14 hours at 110V and 4 hours at 240V. The Prius is 2.5 hours at 110V and 1.5 hours at 240V. In other words, you don't need to install a dedicated charger with either vehicle. It will be full overnight.
4. I have two kids in car seats and I've actually managed to squeeze another adult in the back seat. The Prius has a lot of room but I would trade it all for the driving dynamics of the 4 seater Volt. You're going to test drive both this weekend and you will notice. The Prius is slow as molasses and the Volt is more fun to drive.

When I purchased my Prius, it was $5000 less than the Volt so I chose the cheaper route. I can't say for the reliability of the Volt but be wary of FUD from some of the comments on this thread from non-owners.

5. Battery replacement is not inevitable. Battery replacement rate is 5% on the oldest Prius models. http://consumerreports.org/cro/news/201 ... /index.htm
In other words, transmission failure in a conventional vehicle is more likely than a battery failure in a Prius. The Prius doesn't even have a conventional transmission. http://consumerreports.org/cro/2012/04/ ... /index.htm
6. Edmunds.com has an excellent True Cost to Own calculator that includes maintenance, gasoline, insurance, resale value of vehicles. A Prius plug in costs about the same to own and operate than a Toyota Corolla that costs thousands less to purchase. (Corolla = $38.5k vs Prius Plug-in $43k - $4k rebates = $39k over 5 years.)
http://www.edmunds.com/toyota/corolla/2014/tco.html
http://www.edmunds.com/toyota/prius-plu ... =200495859

I don't think you will go wrong with either purchase. I just want you to be aware that this is not an issue about paying for being home 15 minutes early. It's paying the same cost or less to be home 15 minutes early. Do your own math to confirm.
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playtothebeat
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Re: Considering buying a Plug-in Prius or a Volt

Post by playtothebeat »

Since I haven't purchased a car in close to 8 years.. What's the best way to negotiate? I am of the mindset that I don't mind paying a little extra if it means I get out of the dealership sooner, but I definitely don't want to "overpay".. Any advice on the "car buying experience" would be appreciated!
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Re: Considering buying a Plug-in Prius or a Volt

Post by angelescrest »

You had a similar/same post a while back. It doesn't sound like she started the job and commute yet? I think she really ought to spend a few good months doing the commute to know what that's like before obsessing over which car to get. It'd be a mistake to buy it before she really gets into the commute, and develops some strong opinions. It's her commute, not yours, how does she feel about it? I had a major LA commute for a few years, and I had no idea what it would mean for my life, much less the experience of being in the car all that time. What's the HOV lane like on that route? In some stretches they're just as bad, and the premium is less valuable.

You're not going to know what the right car is yet, but my guess is she'll start to have a really good idea what she does or doesn't want in short time, and maybe even start an exit strategy before she even gets a year through the job.

Fixing the not so old Mazda is the most sensible thing to do financially and in terms of making the right decision on which car she wants.
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Re: Considering buying a Plug-in Prius or a Volt

Post by playtothebeat »

She started the job/commute about 6 weeks ago. I trust her when she says the carpool lane would make a difference (albeit not a huge one, but still enough to prefer to be in it).
The issue is that there is a limited number of HOV stickers available. I would hate to "miss the opportunity" to get a car that has access to it. If the situation changes, from what I've read the plugins keep their resale value pretty well..

Financially, you're absolutely right that driving the Mazda is the best way to go. No argument there. At this point I'm just trying to evaluate the better car of the available plugin hybrids
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Re: Considering buying a Plug-in Prius or a Volt

Post by indexfundfan »

playtothebeat wrote:Since I haven't purchased a car in close to 8 years.. What's the best way to negotiate? I am of the mindset that I don't mind paying a little extra if it means I get out of the dealership sooner, but I definitely don't want to "overpay".. Any advice on the "car buying experience" would be appreciated!
Get the price agreed before visiting the dealership to buy.

If you are buying a Volt, reach out to either Keyes in Van Nuys or Rydell in Northridge. They typically post their no-haggle best price on the Gm-Volt forum:

http://gm-volt.com/forum/forumdisplay.p ... Chevy-Volt

Also if you are lucky, you can get a $1000 off private offer from GM.
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Re: Considering buying a Plug-in Prius or a Volt

Post by angelescrest »

playtothebeat wrote:She started the job/commute about 6 weeks ago. I trust her when she says the carpool lane would make a difference (albeit not a huge one, but still enough to prefer to be in it).
The issue is that there is a limited number of HOV stickers available. I would hate to "miss the opportunity" to get a car that has access to it. If the situation changes, from what I've read the plugins keep their resale value pretty well..

Financially, you're absolutely right that driving the Mazda is the best way to go. No argument there. At this point I'm just trying to evaluate the better car of the available plugin hybrids
My heart goes out to her. I do not miss my old commute. Where I'm at now I see less than 100 cars on my 20 minutes to work. Yeah sounds almost like not wanting to miss out on a potential IPO. I would ease that sense of pressure for the very reason you're saying, which is to say that you can always buy a used plugin with a sticker, right? So no sense of rush needed. Plus battery technology is improving quite rapidly, and the competition I'm reading about from LG supplying GM to compete with Tesla in a couple years makes me think the car you want/need/afford is just around the corner. Nissan is improving their next gen significantly too. The current Volt has been around for a while now, I'd want the next one--and my friends with their Volts are already getting antsy for an upgrade too.
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Re: Considering buying a Plug-in Prius or a Volt

Post by Valuethinker »

This is all about getting that sticker for the HOV lane.

The problem the original poster faces is TIME spent commuting by his wife. Anything which saves TIME is going to be a significant enhancement of utility, far in excess of monetary issues.

With a young child, 20 minutes a day is priceless.

So buy the car that can get you that sticker, if you can still get that sticker.
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