Attitudes toward inheritances.

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mojave
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Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by mojave »

My father is about as un-bogleheady as one could be. I have a rich great-aunt that never had kids and is a widow. Her husband did very well with his investments, and he was a blue-collar guy.

A few years ago my father found out he and his cousins would inherit the estate when she passes. Since he found out he talks about it all the time. He makes comments to me and my grandmother about how the life his aunt is living is eating up all of her money or the number of cousins affects what he gets. I tell him, it's her money and she can do what she wants with it. The thing is, she's 75 and not that much older than my father. Except for a few unexpected illnesses, everyone three generations back on both her mom and dad's side lived well into their 90s, there was even a centennial. She was ill last year and he made jokes about getting her money. She bounced back and is a total spit fire, so if he does end up getting anything, it won't be for quite some time.

My grandmother is very frugal and acts like she doesn't have a dime to her name. Well my father found out what she has (she told him) and told us kids about it. So he was happy he will be getting even more. She makes comments to me that she will make sure to leave me with something, I tell her to stop talking like that and to worry about herself first.

Why are people so weird about inheritances? I mean I know the answer, but why are so many people so blatantly disrespectful about it? Granted, these comments are made in private so perhaps I just have a thin skin. But, I know all of the money these people worked hard for will be blown right away and that really bothers me.
livesoft
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by livesoft »

You might go watch the recent movie "Nebraska" for some insights into the elderly. Watch with your dad and mom, too.
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hicabob
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by hicabob »

It's fun to show older relatives firecalc and let them see how much of their nest-egg they can be safely spending and then encourage them to do so.
barnaclebob
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by barnaclebob »

My Mom received an inheritance that pretty much doubled her net worth (to mid 6 figures) and took her from being able to scrape by to having a decently comfortable retirement if she didn't engage in lifestyle creep and her and my step dad could unhook my loser leach of a stepbrother. Welp at least we convinced her to just get a lake condo instead of a lake house...she started looking at properties over a year before my grandfather died.

I'm almost embarrassed to count the money I received from grandparents (dads side) in my net worth, its approximately 25% of my net worth. I have only used it to bring money to the table for a no brainer refinance.
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cheese_breath
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by cheese_breath »

mojave wrote: Why are people so weird about inheritances? I mean I know the answer, but why are so many people so blatantly disrespectful about it?
Greed and disrespect for the value of human life. At least your father isn't going around saying he hopes she'll die soon so he can get his money.
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MathWizard
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by MathWizard »

I don't think about inheritance other than how it would affect my kids.

Hopefully, my kids will be well on the road to financial independence when both
my wife and I pass. They will likely inherit several 100K each. I would worry if
this would distort them like this.

I did consider this in our wills, with a trust to be established for any child under 25.
Prior to a certain age, I think that huge sums of money are likely to do more harm than good.
I actually wanted 35, but my wife talked me down to 25.
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GerryL
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by GerryL »

Maybe the more distant you are from the person -- either relationship-wise or emotionally -- the easier it is to make light of what an inheritance really means. That is, the person must cease to exist before you "strike it rich." So you can talk casually about a potential inheritance from a distant relative who was not really part of your life, or you can joke about the payday you're looking forward to if you're not one to develop deep personal attachments.

Having grown up in adequate but modest circumstances with no obvious wealth in the family, I never had the expectation that I was entitled to inherit anything. I was almost stunned after the death of my paternal grandmother to get a check for $500. Maybe my expectations would have been different if I'd seen or heard more about fat bank accounts.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by ResearchMed »

GerryL wrote:Maybe the more distant you are from the person -- either relationship-wise or emotionally -- the easier it is to make light of what an inheritance really means. That is, the person must cease to exist before you "strike it rich." So you can talk casually about a potential inheritance from a distant relative who was not really part of your life, or you can joke about the payday you're looking forward to if you're not one to develop deep personal attachments.

Having grown up in adequate but modest circumstances with no obvious wealth in the family, I never had the expectation that I was entitled to inherit anything. I was almost stunned after the death of my paternal grandmother to get a check for $500. Maybe my expectations would have been different if I'd seen or heard more about fat bank accounts.
About a zillion years ago, when one of my grandfathers passed away (he was the only older relative who was really ill much), I was very surprised to get a check for $75 from my grandmother, as my "inheritance" from him. They were very, very poor, and got some help from their children toward the end.

But I was recently setting up a household, so I went out and purchase a set of stainless steel flatware, and sent a photo of it to my grandmother, and told her that I'd be thinking of my grandfather, and her, with every meal.
I was told that she just *beamed* with happiness when she got that letter and photo.

RM
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FelixTheCat
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by FelixTheCat »

People are weird. I've heard too many stories about families fighting about money.

I plan to give my money to my miniature giraffe Image :D
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XtremeSki2001
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by XtremeSki2001 »

A member of my family passed a year or two ago and left a sizable inheritance to his children and grandchildren (me). My father was the executor. It was very interesting how pushy my cousins were in getting "their part". Several of them spent and went into debt once they learned of the inheritance and were concerned they wouldn't get "their fair share" promptly enough.

On the other hand, my wife and I spent my share immediately. We discussed what we would spend it on with my father and told him we thought these purchases / payments were something my grandfather would support. We paid off my student loans (@ 6.5% interest) and used the rest of the money to supplement our down-payment on our current home. The down-payment enabled my wife to quit her job and stay home with our child (and soon to be children).

I am so thankful for what my grandfather left us - he was a boglehead before there were bogleheads.
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SimonJester
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by SimonJester »

imgritz wrote:People are weird. I've heard too many stories about families fighting about money.

I plan to give my money to my miniature giraffe Image :D
Ohhh I want one of those! Can they be litter box trained? Seems way more fun then a cat but not quite as much trouble as a dog...
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Professor Emeritus
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by Professor Emeritus »

Personal experience- My inheritance from my parents was a Bolo tie. DW inherited money and never spent it. It is earmarked for our kids and grandchildren. If we live long enough and are sick enough we just might spend what we have, but I've told the kids they don't have to worry about paying for us.

That being said some older folks are nasty and manipulative about inheritances. My grandparents were awful. My father was weird but he spent what he had on himself and my mother. In my experience the biggest issue is always how to fairly treat those who actually took care of debilitated elderly.

We try to do better
Crow Hunter
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by Crow Hunter »

I actually discussed with my Mother what I was planning on doing with the inheritance that she left me and how I planned on setting up the finances for my brother (who is terrible with money) so that he could have a comfortable retirement based on her prompting when she was first diagnosed. She was very specific that under no circumstances should this ever come between myself and my brother.

She would often comment while she was sick that she was burning up my inheritance. I told her I wanted her to get well and then blow it all afterwards and if she needed more for treatment later I would pay for it myself. I am very thankful for what she did leave us and I am trying to be a good steward.

Most of my other experiences haven't been so good.

I was actually standing in the funeral home with a group of pallbearer's waiting to place the coffin in the hearse for my wife's Great Aunt and her relatives were discussing who was going to get what and arguing over it. :annoyed

After my paternal Grandmother died years ago the family immediately began fighting over what to do with the furnishings in the house and to this day are not on speaking terms because my Uncle, the one that actually owned the house that she lived it (bought it from her years before so she would have money) and who also paid for her funeral by himself, sold the contents at auction to recoup his losses after everyone got to go in and get one thing that was hers that was important to them.

After my maternal Grandmother died just a few years ago everyone demanded a equal share of the $50,000 or so that she had saved up as well as a share of the proceeds of the home sale. Of course everyone "forgot" that the reason she was able to save up that much money on just Social Security after being a retired garment worker to give as an inheritance to all her kids was because my Mother and Aunt paid for most everything that my Grandmother needed and she put a big portion of her money into savings.

My wife's retired Aunt was very gung-ho about taking care of my wife's Grandfather even moving him into another state to her home. Until she found out that he would not give her power of attorney and let them use his check book. Instead they left him in their home town with my wife's parents who were still working.

My wife and I often talk about how greedy people are. People that you had a completely different idea about until an inheritance is involved.
AspiringDoc
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by AspiringDoc »

ResearchMed wrote:
GerryL wrote:Maybe the more distant you are from the person -- either relationship-wise or emotionally -- the easier it is to make light of what an inheritance really means. That is, the person must cease to exist before you "strike it rich." So you can talk casually about a potential inheritance from a distant relative who was not really part of your life, or you can joke about the payday you're looking forward to if you're not one to develop deep personal attachments.

Having grown up in adequate but modest circumstances with no obvious wealth in the family, I never had the expectation that I was entitled to inherit anything. I was almost stunned after the death of my paternal grandmother to get a check for $500. Maybe my expectations would have been different if I'd seen or heard more about fat bank accounts.
About a zillion years ago, when one of my grandfathers passed away (he was the only older relative who was really ill much), I was very surprised to get a check for $75 from my grandmother, as my "inheritance" from him. They were very, very poor, and got some help from their children toward the end.

But I was recently setting up a household, so I went out and purchase a set of stainless steel flatware, and sent a photo of it to my grandmother, and told her that I'd be thinking of my grandfather, and her, with every meal.
I was told that she just *beamed* with happiness when she got that letter and photo.

RM
That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by ResearchMed »

AspiringDoc wrote:
ResearchMed wrote:
GerryL wrote:Maybe the more distant you are from the person -- either relationship-wise or emotionally -- the easier it is to make light of what an inheritance really means. That is, the person must cease to exist before you "strike it rich." So you can talk casually about a potential inheritance from a distant relative who was not really part of your life, or you can joke about the payday you're looking forward to if you're not one to develop deep personal attachments.

Having grown up in adequate but modest circumstances with no obvious wealth in the family, I never had the expectation that I was entitled to inherit anything. I was almost stunned after the death of my paternal grandmother to get a check for $500. Maybe my expectations would have been different if I'd seen or heard more about fat bank accounts.
About a zillion years ago, when one of my grandfathers passed away (he was the only older relative who was really ill much), I was very surprised to get a check for $75 from my grandmother, as my "inheritance" from him. They were very, very poor, and got some help from their children toward the end.

But I was recently setting up a household, so I went out and purchase a set of stainless steel flatware, and sent a photo of it to my grandmother, and told her that I'd be thinking of my grandfather, and her, with every meal.
I was told that she just *beamed* with happiness when she got that letter and photo.

RM
That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you.

I still have that flatware set, with most of the pieces.
Over many moves, and many changes of furnishings, and even more years... that was one thing I made a point to keep.
Grandma passed away in the mid-1980's.
She was very special to me, and that set of flatware is all I have.
(Well, not quite. She couldn't read or write English, and had some wonderful recipes from the old world. One time visiting, I made her agree that before she put "just enough" of ingredient x into the mixing bowl, for example, she'd dump in into a separate bowl I'd hand her, so I could measure it. We did that for every ingredient for several special dishes. I still have those recipes, too.)

RM
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prudent
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by prudent »

Awesome story, ResearchMed. :)

My father's family had only one person with any money - his aunt in Florida. She had mentioned to my father more than a couple times that when the time came there would be about a million split between him and 4 others, so he knew to follow up with the executor. The aunt and her husband had been investing in property in the Orlando area since the 1960's and had done quite well.

Well, as her health declined, a distant and fairly well-to-do (by family standards) cousin from California suddenly became gravely concerned about the aunt, and moved in with her while her own family stayed in California. After that my father was never able to speak to the aunt - she was sleeping, was in the bath, etc. The aunt died a few months later, the distant cousin sent my father a letter to inform him about her passing which did not arrive until after the funeral. A year after that my father figured he would check to see what was going on. The cousin said there was no estate, nothing to distribute, his aunt had been delusional when she said there was any money. Also, she said the aunt had made the cousin the executor, plus POA on all her accounts prior to her death. The implication was that she was completely on top of the situation and there was no need to pry any further, everything was taken care of, too bad there was nothing left.

When a family member checked the real estate records, all the aunt's properties had been sold prior to her death other than the one where she lived.

Everyone in the family knows she took it all, but nobody will do anything. Of course, it would be a bit tougher now, because the cousin and her family have moved and nobody knows where.
denovo
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by denovo »

prudent wrote:Awesome story, ResearchMed. :)

My father's family had only one person with any money - his aunt in Florida. She had mentioned to my father more than a couple times that when the time came there would be about a million split between him and 4 others, so he knew to follow up with the executor. The aunt and her husband had been investing in property in the Orlando area since the 1960's and had done quite well.

Well, as her health declined, a distant and fairly well-to-do (by family standards) cousin from California suddenly became gravely concerned about the aunt, and moved in with her while her own family stayed in California. After that my father was never able to speak to the aunt - she was sleeping, was in the bath, etc. The aunt died a few months later, the distant cousin sent my father a letter to inform him about her passing which did not arrive until after the funeral. A year after that my father figured he would check to see what was going on. The cousin said there was no estate, nothing to distribute, his aunt had been delusional when she said there was any money. Also, she said the aunt had made the cousin the executor, plus POA on all her accounts prior to her death. The implication was that she was completely on top of the situation and there was no need to pry any further, everything was taken care of, too bad there was nothing left.

When a family member checked the real estate records, all the aunt's properties had been sold prior to her death other than the one where she lived.

Everyone in the family knows she took it all, but nobody will do anything. Of course, it would be a bit tougher now, because the cousin and her family have moved and nobody knows where.
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Pizzasteve510
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by Pizzasteve510 »

One if the reasons I save and scrimp to achieve wealth is to avoid temptation. Money is not the root of evil, it is said that the LUST for money that is the root of evil.

Personal security helps me be certain I will execute any fiduciary duties with integrity
Silverado
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by Silverado »

I have mentioned several times to my parents please, please spend your money. I need nothing, would rather see them in a new RV now. I have a small family and reading the various family politics, glad for it. Rough stuff in rough situations.
john94549
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by john94549 »

Our family always regarded inheritances as something to be managed, grown, and then passed along again (to successive generations). Another tradition has always been to pass at least 10% of any inheritance immediately through to one's children (for their use or for their own children). Not surprisingly, it has always found a good use.
fposte
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by fposte »

I think The Millionaire Next Door talks about the problems of living in expectation of an inheritance. While I think it would please my father that the amount I got from his IRA has turned into a nice hedge against some current career uncertainty, I'd be okay without it, and I'm even gladder that I successfully pushed him to spend money on stuff he'd enjoy (he did around the world on a cargo ship for a year when he was seventy-five or so, for one) while he could.

Reading this thread also makes me feel very fortunate that though my sibling and I haven't been very close, we were completely on the same page and friendly about estate stuff. Which also would have made my father very glad. I think to some people the possibility of an inheritance is akin to a holding a hot lottery ticket--it doesn't seem to involve actual humans at all to them.
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William4u
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by William4u »

I have had a number of conversations with family and friends about this. The stories here are typical. I could list about a half dozen similar stories in my own extended family (plus another half dozen from close friends). Some people can be heartless and greedy, and it is shockingly common when an inheritance is on the line. I was recently talking to a friend whose greedy siblings are trying their best to prevent their elderly mother from spending "their inheritance" on her own health and happiness. It makes me sick.

The problem is that even if 90% of family members are good people, it only takes the worst 10% to cause serious problems with inheritances, which are often sloppily done and too easily changed through manipulation.

And, lets face it, many of us have a pretty bad bottom 10%, even if 90% of the family are great.

It is often too easy to manipulate elderly relatives into handing over control to the most unscrupulous member of the family. The best that can be done is for the will and estate planning to be thorough and clear, and hopefully immune from the manipulation of the worst of the family.
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HardKnocker
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by HardKnocker »

Love of money is the root of all evil.

If you want to see the bad in people there you go.

This is why you should keep your wealth under wraps.
“Gold gets dug out of the ground, then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility.”--Warren Buffett
rec7
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by rec7 »

prudent wrote:Awesome story, ResearchMed. :)

My father's family had only one person with any money - his aunt in Florida. She had mentioned to my father more than a couple times that when the time came there would be about a million split between him and 4 others, so he knew to follow up with the executor. The aunt and her husband had been investing in property in the Orlando area since the 1960's and had done quite well.

Well, as her health declined, a distant and fairly well-to-do (by family standards) cousin from California suddenly became gravely concerned about the aunt, and moved in with her while her own family stayed in California. After that my father was never able to speak to the aunt - she was sleeping, was in the bath, etc. The aunt died a few months later, the distant cousin sent my father a letter to inform him about her passing which did not arrive until after the funeral. A year after that my father figured he would check to see what was going on. The cousin said there was no estate, nothing to distribute, his aunt had been delusional when she said there was any money. Also, she said the aunt had made the cousin the executor, plus POA on all her accounts prior to her death. The implication was that she was completely on top of the situation and there was no need to pry any further, everything was taken care of, too bad there was nothing left.

When a family member checked the real estate records, all the aunt's properties had been sold prior to her death other than the one where she lived.

Everyone in the family knows she took it all, but nobody will do anything. Of course, it would be a bit tougher now, because the cousin and her family have moved and nobody knows where.
That is wild but I have a wilder story. My great aunt did very well running a business for many years and saved up about 250k in today's money. All of my relatives were expecting a inheritance which they would have got but she died before my great uncle. My family was a blood relative of her side. The money all went to him. He in his 70's now went over to a country that he was from. He goes to the house he grew up in and the people told him they are related to him. They were not they just lied. They manged to get all the money from him in the next few years. Then one of the women moves to the US and claims to be my great aunt to collect her social security and live here. At that point my family caught on to what had happened. They called social security got those checks stopped and her deported. Then after my great uncle was broke he wanted our side of the family to take care of him in his old age. People in my family 40 years later still talk about the inheritance they never got.
scrabbler1
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by scrabbler1 »

I am FI and my brother, while not FI, is well off.

Once in a while, my dad jokes to us that "there goes more of your inheritance" when he has to spend some money on some costly dental work. We just laugh along with him.
JDDS
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by JDDS »

I have never received an inheritance, and I never expect to get one.

One of my grandmothers inherited some money from a cousin. This let her loosen the strings a bit and enjoy a bit more of life. My other grandmother scrimps to get by. I sent my mother over with some money the other day, and grandma was on the phone to me immediately saying thank you. I try to do this a couple of times per year.

I had a friend in high school, his grandpa died junior year. The grandpa left some money in trust. This money ended upn getting spent in undergrad. Today though, the friend has a great paying job, but with the usual student loan, car and house debt you might expect.

Another friend received some money in the last year from his grandparents passing. I think half of it went towards a used pick up truck. The other half I suspect he still has. He has no debt, but reasonable expectations of inheriting (with siblings) a successful business.

Fortunately in general, I've never heard much talk among friends about what inheritances they might expect. I think some of this might be due to our age (~30). I think most of them will receive a modest amount. So, when I know some of them are envious of how much I make, I believe it'll come out reasonably even in the end.
dlw322
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by dlw322 »

MathWizard wrote:I don't think about inheritance other than how it would affect my kids.

Hopefully, my kids will be well on the road to financial independence when both
my wife and I pass. They will likely inherit several 100K each. I would worry if
this would distort them like this.

I did consider this in our wills, with a trust to be established for any child under 25.
Prior to a certain age, I think that huge sums of money are likely to do more harm than good.
I actually wanted 35, but my wife talked me down to 25.
You can set the trust up in a way to make partial payments at any given point in time. My wife and I have ours set up to give our son small percentages at 25 & 30. Then slightly larger percentages at 35 & 40. The final distribution from the trust will be when he is 45. Hopefully by then he will be financially independent on his own and this will help to set up the next generation.

We didn't want to set it up as something that he would get every year, because we didn't want him to get used to the "income".
gd
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by gd »

mojave wrote: perhaps I just have a thin skin.
You say this like it's a bad thing. Perhaps it's one of the things that make you an honorable and decent person, and you should nuture it.
Professor Emeritus
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by Professor Emeritus »

prudent wrote:Awesome story, ResearchMed. :)

My father's family had only one person with any money - his aunt in Florida. She had mentioned to my father more than a couple times that when the time came there would be about a million split between him and 4 others, so he knew to follow up with the executor. The aunt and her husband had been investing in property in the Orlando area since the 1960's and had done quite well.

Well, as her health declined, a distant and fairly well-to-do (by family standards) cousin from California suddenly became gravely concerned about the aunt, and moved in with her while her own family stayed in California. After that my father was never able to speak to the aunt - she was sleeping, was in the bath, etc. The aunt died a few months later, the distant cousin sent my father a letter to inform him about her passing which did not arrive until after the funeral. A year after that my father figured he would check to see what was going on. The cousin said there was no estate, nothing to distribute, his aunt had been delusional when she said there was any money. Also, she said the aunt had made the cousin the executor, plus POA on all her accounts prior to her death. The implication was that she was completely on top of the situation and there was no need to pry any further, everything was taken care of, too bad there was nothing left.

When a family member checked the real estate records, all the aunt's properties had been sold prior to her death other than the one where she lived.

Everyone in the family knows she took it all, but nobody will do anything. Of course, it would be a bit tougher now, because the cousin and her family have moved and nobody knows where.
In Florida at least such conduct is a Felony

825.103 Exploitation of an elderly person or disabled adult; penalties.--

(1) "Exploitation of an elderly person or disabled adult" means:

(a) Knowingly, by deception or intimidation, obtaining or using, or endeavoring to obtain or use, an elderly person's or disabled adult's funds, assets, or property with the intent to temporarily or permanently deprive the elderly person or disabled adult of the use, benefit, or possession of the funds, assets, or property, or to benefit someone other than the elderly person or disabled adult, by a person who:

1. Stands in a position of trust and confidence with the elderly person or disabled adult; or

2. Has a business relationship with the elderly person or disabled adult; or

(b) Obtaining or using, endeavoring to obtain or use, or conspiring with another to obtain or use an elderly person's or disabled adult's funds, assets, or property with the intent to temporarily or permanently deprive the elderly person or disabled adult of the use, benefit, or possession of the funds, assets, or property, or to benefit someone other than the elderly person or disabled adult, by a person who knows or reasonably should know that the elderly person or disabled adult lacks the capacity to consent.

(2)(a) If the funds, assets, or property involved in the exploitation of the elderly person or disabled adult is valued at $100,000 or more, the offender commits a felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(b) If the funds, assets, or property involved in the exploitation of the elderly person or disabled adult is valued at $20,000 or more, but less than $100,000, the offender commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(c) If the funds, assets, or property involved in the exploitation of an elderly person or disabled adult is valued at less than $20,000, the offender commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

History.--s. 4, ch. 95-158; s. 5, ch. 96-322; s. 1, ch. 97-78.
gd
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by gd »

To the original question, I think inheritances hit a sweet spot-- free money, dangled far in advance to let thoughts about it fester and grow, and enough sense of social acceptance and entitlement to the money to make one feel allowed to think those thoughts. It's too much stimulation for people who do not have a well-grounded sense of morality and ethics (whatever that is and means, basically whatever it is we're both perceiving here). The greed topples normal social barriers.
bdylan
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by bdylan »

I also wonder at the problem of just having one bad apple.

There were some inheritances in my family, and they never caused any real heartache, though some tensions at time.

However, if there was one person trying to get over on everyone else, I can see that quickly turning into a disaster. What exactly do you do if someone is trying to get more than their 'fair share?' The injustice must be galling, and the strength of character it takes to step back, recognize that none of the money is yours, and then allow the person whom you think is being unfair to profit from that unfairness must be enormous.

I don't know. When my grandparents died, the intentions were clear, and my parents/aunts/uncles all accepted it with relative equanimity. But if just one person hadn't, I don't know, I can see it turning ugly, even if 90% of the people involved didn't want it to.
dolphinsaremammals
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by dolphinsaremammals »

scrabbler1 wrote:I am FI and my brother, while not FI, is well off.

Once in a while, my dad jokes to us that "there goes more of your inheritance" when he has to spend some money on some costly dental work. We just laugh along with him.
What's FI?
scrabbler1
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by scrabbler1 »

dolphinsaremammals wrote:
scrabbler1 wrote:I am FI and my brother, while not FI, is well off.

Once in a while, my dad jokes to us that "there goes more of your inheritance" when he has to spend some money on some costly dental work. We just laugh along with him.
What's FI?
FI=Financially Independent, sometimes part of the FIRE acronym which means Financially Independent, Retired Early (which I am, too).
carolinaman
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by carolinaman »

I have had 2 experiences on inheritances. My mother passed away 2 years ago and I was the executor. She had a modest estate and I was able to distribute it fairly quickly to my 2 siblings and I with minimal problems. I took the high road on a couple of issues to avoid any problems.

My son in law's father passed away last year and he was the executor even though he has an older brother who has a better business background (his father knew what he was doing). His father had $1M+ estate. My son in law also took the high road on a few issues with his brother and managed to get the estate distributed in less than a year. His brother lives a long distance away. When his brother came to town, he and his wife intruded in his handling of the estate, including going through his papers unsupervised, and pushed for a quick distribution of assets. I think I would have called them on it but he was far more patience with them than I would have been. In the end, it worked out. Just to give you an idea of how bad these people were, my son in law's mother (who is divorced from his father and has her own business) caught the wife of his brother rummaging through her files and business papers, apparently trying to determine what her assets were. That and other things have severely affected their relationship. Very sad to see such gold diggers.
TRC
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by TRC »

That's unforutnate your dad is acting like that. I'm not sure what I'd do if I were in your shoes. I guess it's best for wealthy people to keep their mouhts shut so kids / heirs don't expect it.

I'm in a similar situation with my Father In Law. He's very weatlhy and accumulated it 100% Boglehead style. He grew up poor, paid & paved his own way, lived way below his means and by my guestimtae, probably has a net worth of $5M. He's in retirement now and almost seems afraid to spend it. I think partly becusae his children (ages 33 - 44) and now grandchildren are still so financially dependant on him still. My wife being the exception - we've done extremely well on our own 2 feet. In the back of my mind, I do wonder if someday we'll get a chunk of his inheritenace. My guess is that we will, but by no means are we counting on this. In fact, I'd love to see him spend it now and enjoy the fruits of his labor. Money makes people very weird sometimes...
texasdiver
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by texasdiver »

I think inheritance is the one windfall most people can ever expect in their lives. Other than that you are pretty much only going to have what you have earned yourself, which for a whole lot of people isn't that much. And, this forum notwithstanding, most people regardless of income are struggling in some way with money issues. There's something about a shortcut to wealth that seems to make people crazy. It is the same in a lot of other areas of life as well. I teach HS and every day I see kids who spend more time trying to figure out ways to cheat the system than it would actually take for them to just study and do well the normal way.
goldendad
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by goldendad »

It is said that money doesn't change us, it just unmasks us.
kaudrey
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by kaudrey »

scrabbler1 wrote:I am FI and my brother, while not FI, is well off.

Once in a while, my dad jokes to us that "there goes more of your inheritance" when he has to spend some money on some costly dental work. We just laugh along with him.
+1

My sister and I are both in our 40s and doing fine financially. We were raised in a family of savers. We have a very small family, and we know that at some point, we will split not only our parents' leftovers but also our aunt's (who has no kids). My dad likes to joke that he is spending our inheritance when he buys new golf clubs or does something else, and we both say - "please, spend more - you earned it and you should enjoy it!". They enjoy life but are still frugal at 77.

These stories make me sad. When my dad's (and aunt's) mother died about 13 years ago, we all went to her house. We all picked a few things as keepsakes (my favorites were some old photographs that I turned into a family collage that hangs on my living room wall). So I have little reminders of my grandparents around my house, as does my sister. My parents did an estate sale with the rest, sold the house, split the estate. No tensions, no disagreements.

I hope my older relatives live to ripe old ages and spend all their money as they see fit. I don't count on it all, and would much rather have more time with them than money (my mom is not in the best of health, and I worry a lot about her, at 77).
MP1233
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by MP1233 »

mojave wrote:Why are people so weird about inheritances? I mean I know the answer, but why are so many people so blatantly disrespectful about it? Granted, these comments are made in private so perhaps I just have a thin skin. But, I know all of the money these people worked hard for will be blown right away and that really bothers me.
I think it is all about the people involved. I think that inheritances, like many money matters, brings out the bad traits that are already part of a person. In the past ten years, both of my parents have died and as well as my father-in-law. My wife and I come from big families and we did not see any disrespectful behaviors. There were some difficult times but none were based on money. The only complaint I have is that some of the kids have blown through the money, but that is their problem and I would be disrespectful to state otherwise.
sls239
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by sls239 »

This thread makes me glad that the older people in my life have pensions and not wealth.
Jozxyqk
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by Jozxyqk »

As an attorney who does some litigation involving estates, I've pretty much seen it all (though prudent's story about the Florida aunt is right up there). It is sad.

What's most remarkable is the lack of self-awareness, or perhaps empathy, on either side of almost any dispute. Often *both* sides are absolutely shocked that the other could possibly be so greedy and immoral. Even in the posts on this thread I can see situations where that must have been the case.

Side A: "It was unbelievable how [sibling] abused his power as executor. It took him a year, and then he produces a paltry $_______! I'm sure Mom's estate was bigger than that. And coincidentally he buys himself a brand new car. If I hadn't held his feet to the fire the money probably would have all 'disappeared.' But, you know, I took the high road and decided not to sue."

Side B: "[Siblings] were unbelievably grasping! Mom was barely cold in the ground before they were harassing me about getting their 'fair share.' I was doing all this work as executor, and they were already spending 'their' money on expensive cruises.'"

--or, commonly--

Side A: "I took care of dad during the tough, last years of his life and paid for [X, Y, Z]. Do you think [siblings] were grateful? Heck no, they still believe they were somehow cheated just because I used some of dad's estate to recoup a small portion of my losses. I still ended up paying for most of [X, Y, Z] out of my own pocket when they were living it up out of state and totally ignoring dad. And now all they care about is getting more of his money."

Side B: "Dad always talked about sharing his money equally among us kids. But when he got old and frail [sibling] conveniently moved next door and wormed his way into Dad's finances. Then when dad died [sibling] sold the house and took basically dad's entire estate for himself! So much for Dad's wishes. Can you even imagine?"

---and even sometimes---

Side A: "I've worked so hard to help protect dad now that he doesn't have all his marbles. There are so many unscrupulous salesmen out there trying to bilk him into spending his hard-earned money by convincing him he needs a $2,000 vacuum cleaner or a time share in Madagascar or some such nonsense. For some reason I get dirty looks from [sibling] when I talk about this! What is her problem?"

Side B: "Dad worked his whole life to build up a nest egg, and now all [sibling] does is complain about him spending money that should go to 'her' inheritance. How low can you get?"



This is just an observation. Not to say there are necessarily two sides to every story. As has been mentioned, some people truly do become immoral where inheritances are concerned.
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GerryL
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by GerryL »

The kids are watching.

I remember hearing that when his dad died my father was left everything -- not much, but that's not the point. My father, however, split it equally with his older brother.

My dad used to joke that when he died he intended to be holding his last nickel in his clenched fist. But he arranged well ahead of time to split his investments equally among his wife, my brother and myself. I never asked; he just chose to tell me. I'm guessing that his example influenced my brother and me. When my mom died we split her small remaining estate and agreed to each donate half of our half to charities of our choice. We each got the tax deduction and were able to honor our parent.

When kids see their elders fighting over inheritances, they may think that is normal or they may recoil and pledge to avoid that behavior. I feel fortunate that I had a good example.
technovelist
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by technovelist »

My mother is leaving half of her estate to one of my two brothers (he is the only sibling with children) and 1/4 to each of the other two of us. That's not how I would do it, but it's her money. Fortunately I'll be okay financially regardless of how much I inherit.

BTW, I'm her money manager and have increased her net worth substantially since her husband died 10 years ago. I have asked for no compensation for this, and have received none. However, she gives money every month to both of the other brothers, only one of whom ever does anything for her, and nothing to me "because I don't need it".

That annoys me but there isn't much I can do about it without causing more familial dissension.
In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, they often differ.
stoptothink
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by stoptothink »

prudent wrote:Awesome story, ResearchMed. :)

My father's family had only one person with any money - his aunt in Florida. She had mentioned to my father more than a couple times that when the time came there would be about a million split between him and 4 others, so he knew to follow up with the executor. The aunt and her husband had been investing in property in the Orlando area since the 1960's and had done quite well.

Well, as her health declined, a distant and fairly well-to-do (by family standards) cousin from California suddenly became gravely concerned about the aunt, and moved in with her while her own family stayed in California. After that my father was never able to speak to the aunt - she was sleeping, was in the bath, etc. The aunt died a few months later, the distant cousin sent my father a letter to inform him about her passing which did not arrive until after the funeral. A year after that my father figured he would check to see what was going on. The cousin said there was no estate, nothing to distribute, his aunt had been delusional when she said there was any money. Also, she said the aunt had made the cousin the executor, plus POA on all her accounts prior to her death. The implication was that she was completely on top of the situation and there was no need to pry any further, everything was taken care of, too bad there was nothing left.

When a family member checked the real estate records, all the aunt's properties had been sold prior to her death other than the one where she lived.

Everyone in the family knows she took it all, but nobody will do anything. Of course, it would be a bit tougher now, because the cousin and her family have moved and nobody knows where.
Similar story, though more transparent. My grandfather was a very successful physician who founded a large practice and invested well in prime Southern California real estate. At the time of his death about a decade ago I believe his networth was in the 8-figures. Everything was left to his wife, who was the epitome of the Disney evil stepmother (no relationship whatsoever with any of his 7 children). She became ill a few years ago and one of my aunts out of the blue began helping take care of her. She is a SAHM and lives less than 30min away so she would volunteer to take her to her doctor's appointment and go shopping for her. Sure enough, she became executor of the will when grandma became senile and then grandma passed away about six months ago. In the will, grandma left small sums to 5 of the 7 children, 5 of the 31 grandchildren (2 of whom don't recall ever en meeting her and of course all 3 of "the aunts" children), her gardener, two members of the clergy at her church, she left two properties worth ~$2m to the church, and the rest went to my aunt. My mother, the closest person on the planet to my grandfather (she was his office manager for 20+ years) didn't receive a penny.

Not sure how much was left to my aunt, but we are all pretty sure it was well into the 7-figures. They are in the midst of a home addition that is more than doubling the size of their home (and probably costs twice what the home is worth), they have purchased two new luxury vehicles, taken a few very expensive family vacations, and apparently my uncle has been talking about retiring soon (he's a pretty low-income blue collar worker).

My mother, who has struggled financially her entire life and at 55 is still just scraping by, was literally physically ill for a few weeks. I don't know that she was expecting anything (there were definitely family talks that said aunt was in on something prior to grandma's passing), but knowing how a small fraction of the assets (less than what was left to the gardener and the church clergymen) would have totally changed her life; it really hurt her. This also affects me, as the only one of my siblings that is in good financial standing, I fully expect to have to be helping her out a lot within the next decade. A few of her siblings have pretty much disowned said aunt and my brothers won't even speak her name, but my sweet mother still sees the aunt and never brings it up.
Last edited by stoptothink on Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Professor Emeritus
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by Professor Emeritus »

Similar story, though more transparent. My grandfather was a very successful physician who founded a large practice and invested well in prime Southern California real estate. At the time of his death about a decade ago I believe his networth was in the 8-figures. Everything was left to his wife, who was the epitome of the Disney evil stepmother (no relationship whatsoever with any of his 7 children)...
[/quote]

Your Grandfather clearly had no interest in his children's welfare. End of story. His money , his choice .
stoptothink
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by stoptothink »

Professor Emeritus wrote:Similar story, though more transparent. My grandfather was a very successful physician who founded a large practice and invested well in prime Southern California real estate. At the time of his death about a decade ago I believe his networth was in the 8-figures. Everything was left to his wife, who was the epitome of the Disney evil stepmother (no relationship whatsoever with any of his 7 children)...
Your Grandfather clearly had no interest in his children's welfare. End of story. His money , his choice .[/quote]

Did you read the entire post? Has nothing to do with my grandfather (or even step grandma), nobody has issue with what he did. The aunt on the other hand pretty clearly manipulated her senile stepmother who she previously had no relationship with.
pennywise
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by pennywise »

Two recent inheritance experiences: my husband and I had a close friend who had no immediate family, and who decided to leave us his estate upon his death following a long bout with cancer. We took care of him till the end, and even though he was a cantankerous and quirky guy, I'd give up every penny if it could have bought us another hour or day to have him around. He had an uncle that we later discovered had already embezzled $250K from friend's elderly mother before her death, and I guess our friend felt more secure knowing we wouldn't take advantage of him. He was able to stay home, in hospice at the end, and die as he wished to go. We did learn something from this experience, since aside from a will he left nothing in order. The estate, which was a fairly simple one, is still in probate almost a year later and the aggravation has been immense. Part of the inheritance is money in a brokerage account with Oppenheimer that I now realize has long been in the process of being robbed blind by fees and expenses. Trying to figure out what to do with it led me to this board, which has been a revelatory experience. But that's another post for another time.

That experience pushed us into getting my mother in law's estate in order. She is 91 YO, a widow and increasingly suffering from dementia. My husband and his brother are people of integrity and along with my sister in law, the four of us gathered everything and got her in to work with the preputable robate lawyer handling our friend's estate. She has enough wherewithal that she knew her goal is to 'leave it to my boys' and now that should happen smoothly. Her boys can also continue to take care of her as they do now and if need be take care of her finances and physical care arrangements when or if the need arises. Surprising things can come up in the process; in our case it was the question of how the estate would be divided if one or both sons predeceased her. My husband and BIL helped her think about options and she decided in that situation she wanted the estate to pass directly to her grandchildren--with our enthusiastic approval. The lawyer remarked that it was the easiest and most positive family situation he had ever dealt with.

My feeling is that an inheritance is a life/finance bonus. You shouldn't plan on it, assume you'll get it, or even consider it related to your life until or unless it is. Then too, receiving an inheritance means someone you care about, or should care about, is not in your life any more. I can't imagine wishing for that, although clearly many do.
denovo
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by denovo »

stoptothink wrote:
Professor Emeritus wrote:Similar story, though more transparent. My grandfather was a very successful physician who founded a large practice and invested well in prime Southern California real estate. At the time of his death about a decade ago I believe his networth was in the 8-figures. Everything was left to his wife, who was the epitome of the Disney evil stepmother (no relationship whatsoever with any of his 7 children)...
Your Grandfather clearly had no interest in his children's welfare. End of story. His money , his choice .
Did you read the entire post? Has nothing to do with my grandfather (or even step grandma), nobody has issue with what he did. The aunt on the other hand pretty clearly manipulated her senile stepmother who she previously had no relationship with.[/quote]


I think I agree with Professor Emeritus. Although I don't think it's unusual for spouses wanting to perhaps leave everything to each other, and then later having things distributed to children after the second spouse passes, when there is a step-parent that may not be a good idea since there may not be an emotional or biological connection, and the stepparent may not hesitate to ice them out of their will, like what happened here.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln
stoptothink
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by stoptothink »

denovo wrote:
stoptothink wrote:
Professor Emeritus wrote:Similar story, though more transparent. My grandfather was a very successful physician who founded a large practice and invested well in prime Southern California real estate. At the time of his death about a decade ago I believe his networth was in the 8-figures. Everything was left to his wife, who was the epitome of the Disney evil stepmother (no relationship whatsoever with any of his 7 children)...
Your Grandfather clearly had no interest in his children's welfare. End of story. His money , his choice .
Did you read the entire post? Has nothing to do with my grandfather (or even step grandma), nobody has issue with what he did. The aunt on the other hand pretty clearly manipulated her senile stepmother who she previously had no relationship with.

I think I agree with Professor Emeritus. Although I don't think it's unusual for spouses wanting to perhaps leave everything to each other, and then later having things distributed to children after the second spouse passes, when there is a step-parent that may not be a good idea since there may not be an emotional or biological connection, and the stepparent may not hesitate to ice them out of their will, like what happened here.[/quote]

And that makes what the aunt did OK? I'll just say, I don't agree. My mother is the only one in the family that will even talk to my aunt at this point.
denovo
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Re: Attitudes toward inheritances.

Post by denovo »

stoptothink wrote:
denovo wrote:
stoptothink wrote:
Professor Emeritus wrote:Similar story, though more transparent. My grandfather was a very successful physician who founded a large practice and invested well in prime Southern California real estate. At the time of his death about a decade ago I believe his networth was in the 8-figures. Everything was left to his wife, who was the epitome of the Disney evil stepmother (no relationship whatsoever with any of his 7 children)...
Your Grandfather clearly had no interest in his children's welfare. End of story. His money , his choice .
Did you read the entire post? Has nothing to do with my grandfather (or even step grandma), nobody has issue with what he did. The aunt on the other hand pretty clearly manipulated her senile stepmother who she previously had no relationship with.

I think I agree with Professor Emeritus. Although I don't think it's unusual for spouses wanting to perhaps leave everything to each other, and then later having things distributed to children after the second spouse passes, when there is a step-parent that may not be a good idea since there may not be an emotional or biological connection, and the stepparent may not hesitate to ice them out of their will, like what happened here.
And that makes what the aunt did OK? I'll just say, I don't agree. My mother is the only one in the family that will even talk to my aunt at this point.[/quote]

Sorry, I believe we are discussing things at different wavelengths. I think what your aunt did is terrible. But I think your grandfather is partly to blame by setting up his will or inheritance to leave everything to his second wife, which is what I think the Professor was getting at. I don't know if he did out of ignorance or malice. I think the Professor is implying malice, I think it could just be ignorance.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln
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