How does car trade-in work?

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htdrag11
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How does car trade-in work?

Post by htdrag11 »

Normally wife does not want to upgrade car but this was a tough winter and she wanted heated seats. Getting more mature, she did not want to bother with the manual tailgate either. So we'll be trading in our 2013 Mazda CX-5 with 30k miles on it, though in the past I like to sell it on my own. Anyway, we're trading in for a 2012 Lexus RX350 CPO with about 30k miles (did not like the look of the Highlander).

What is the strategy? Which used car prices do I use, among Edmunds, NADA, Blue Book, etc.? This will be a cash deal, like our previous purchase. We are in NJ, so there are plenty of choices in the dealer lots at this time of the year. BTW, I ruled our a new 2014 since I hate to spend yet another $7 to 8k.

With Carfax, all of the CPO's I looked at are accident free. Is Carfax trust worthy?

Thanks.
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Re: How does car trade-in works?

Post by pshonore »

Generally the dealer gives you wholesale value for your trade in and if he thinks he can sell in a short amount time without putting much into it, he may sell it as a used car. If not, it goes to the local wholesale auction. Note that in most states, you get a credit for the trade value against sales tax on the purchase. So if your trade is worth $15K, you would pay approx. $1k less on sales tax (in CT where the rate is 6.35%).
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Re: How does car trade-in works?

Post by Ged »

htdrag11 wrote:
Is Carfax trust worthy?

Thanks.
Trust but verify.
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Re: How does car trade-in works?

Post by Twins Fan »

For heated seats? I'm thinking one of those fuzzy seat covers would be much cheaper. :D

I would look at all the sites for a trade in value and find what would would be comfortable taking. Then when you go to get the new to you vehicle, go in with the attitude of you don't NEED to buy this other vehicle it's something you WANT to do. And, you will probably have to make that point to the salesperson more than once. They will try to undercut you on the trade value. They do like to make money after all. :) If they don't meet your number, walk away.

Carfax is pretty reliable for the major stuff like accidents.
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Re: How does car trade-in works?

Post by Aptenodytes »

Carfax doesn't catch everything. I've bought carfax reports to include in my ad listings when I've sold my cars, and they are highly incomplete.

Expect to pay several thousand dollars for the convenience of trading your car in. The pricing services will tell you all this.
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Re: How does car trade-in works?

Post by pennstater2005 »

In my experience, the price you receive from a trade in has very little haggling room. It can be done though.
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Re: How does car trade-in works?

Post by Crimsontide »

htdrag11 wrote: So we'll be trading in our 2013 Mazda CX-5 with 30k miles on it
If you opt to trade in a car you bought new less than 2 years ago you are going to get screwed, that's how it works...
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Re: How does car trade-in works?

Post by goblue100 »

My suggestion to you is if you have a CarMax in your area, go get a quote on what they would pay for your car. I believe they will honor the quote for 7 days, so that will set a floor. My dealer wouldn't come close to matching what CarMax offered without increasing the price paid for the new vehicle, so I said forget about the trade in and just negotiated on the new vehicle, and sold my old car at CarMax the next day for the quoted price they gave me.
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Re: How does car trade-in works?

Post by htdrag11 »

There is no Carmax in NJ; closest is 65 miles away in PA.

Yep, that is why I do not like trade-in, getting screwed in a 2-year old car. The only good thing is that the one I'm looking for is 3 years old.
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Re: How does car trade-in works?

Post by htdrag11 »

pshonore wrote:Generally the dealer gives you wholesale value for your trade in and if he thinks he can sell in a short amount time without putting much into it, he may sell it as a used car. If not, it goes to the local wholesale auction. Note that in most states, you get a credit for the trade value against sales tax on the purchase. So if your trade is worth $15K, you would pay approx. $1k less on sales tax (in CT where the rate is 6.35%).
In Edmunds, there are 3 columns, dealers, trad-in and private sale. How close would one get to the trade-in dollars? I noticed that Kelly and NADA tend to have a higher trade-in than Edmunds.
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Re: How does car trade-in works?

Post by sport »

Trade in prices can vary considerably. The last time I traded in a car, I traded in a Toyota. The Toyota dealer gave me a much better price than the Honda dealer. It all depends on how much they like your car. My car was an older one in nice shape. The Toyota dealer could put it on his lot. The Honda dealer would have to wholesale it.
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Re: How does car trade-in works?

Post by Chan_va »

Here is my strategy. Post the car on craigslist with lots and lots of pictures. Price it at above market value. Allow yourself to be haggled down. It's amazing the number of people out there who don't do the basic research regarding the market price of a used car. And everyone on Craigslist loves thinking they got a deal.
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Re: How does car trade-in works?

Post by Abe »

A dealer will not give you more than wholesale if you trade-in. It could be less but not more. They try to determine what's important to you. If you want more for your trade-in than wholesale, they may give you more and make up the difference in the price of the car you are buying. They are good at juggling the numbers. If you are going to trade-in your car, I would not tell the dealer initially. After getting the best cash price you can, ask how much they will give you for your car. At least that way, you will have a more realistic figure as to what they are giving you for your vehicle.
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Re: How does car trade-in works?

Post by htdrag11 »

jsl11 wrote:Trade in prices can vary considerably. The last time I traded in a car, I traded in a Toyota. The Toyota dealer gave me a much better price than the Honda dealer. It all depends on how much they like your car. My car was an older one in nice shape. The Toyota dealer could put it on his lot. The Honda dealer would have to wholesale it.
Jeff
Unfortunately, I'm not trading in for a Mazda CX-9 due to interior noise level and the ride Wife prefers the softer ride and the quality material. This is our 4th Mazda; fun cars but material quality is lower than Toyota.
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Re: How does car trade-in works?

Post by htdrag11 »

Abe wrote:A dealer will not give you more than wholesale if you trade-in. It could be less but not more. They try to determine what's important to you. If you want more for your trade-in than wholesale, they may give you more and make up the difference in the price of the car you are buying. They are good at juggling the numbers. If you are going to trade-in your car, I would not tell the dealer initially. After getting the best cash price you can, ask how much they will give you for your car. At least that way, you will have a more realistic figure as to what they are giving you for your vehicle.
Is there a way find out about the whole-sale price?
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Re: How does car trade-in works?

Post by htdrag11 »

Chan_va wrote:Here is my strategy. Post the car on craigslist with lots and lots of pictures. Price it at above market value. Allow yourself to be haggled down. It's amazing the number of people out there who don't do the basic research regarding the market price of a used car. And everyone on Craigslist loves thinking they got a deal.
Haha! Let me see how much I could get from trade-in, then I could list the car if it's more than $1,500 apart. Really I'm not in a rush to replace this baby.
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Re: How does car trade-in works?

Post by obgraham »

You're doing essentially a sideways car trade. So you'll have to accept the retail-wholesale difference on the car you are trading in, plus some profit on the new one. You'll lose cash here, but sometimes a happy wife is worth a little cash lost.
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Re: How does car trade-in works?

Post by SpaceCowboy »

Take it to your local Mazda dealer and see how much they will offer in trade. Then go to the commercial strip in your area where all the used car dealers are located with title in hand and get an offer from them. This should give you a good floor from which you can negotiate with the dealer from whom you're buying the Lexus.
The Craigslist listing and drive to Carmax also work.
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Re: How does car trade-in works?

Post by whomever »

Since we're talking about selling a fairly new car, how do people arrange payment when selling, say, a $15K car on craigslist?

My previous experience selling cars all involved prices in the few hundreds of dollars range, and I only accepted cash. How do you safely accept payment of thousands? Once upon a time cashier's checks were deemed safe, but IIUC they are fairly commonly forged these days. What do people do, if the buyer isn't family/friend/etc where you'd take a personal check?
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Re: How does car trade-in works?

Post by htdrag11 »

The last car I sold for close to $10k, I got a teller's check for the transaction.

Try to "trade" my car to my Mazda dealer is not a bad idea to get a floor either.
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Re: How does car trade-in works?

Post by Bidwell »

Abe wrote:A dealer will not give you more than wholesale if you trade-in. It could be less but not more. They try to determine what's important to you. If you want more for your trade-in than wholesale, they may give you more and make up the difference in the price of the car you are buying. They are good at juggling the numbers. If you are going to trade-in your car, I would not tell the dealer initially. After getting the best cash price you can, ask how much they will give you for your car. At least that way, you will have a more realistic figure as to what they are giving you for your vehicle.
Good advice.

The time honored technique to buy a new car with a trade is go to three dealers (not one or two). Then compare the deals, pick the best one, go in and negotiate down from there if possible. Used car prices from the internet or published wholesale books might give you confidence but this not rocket science.
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Re: How does car trade-in works?

Post by acegolfer »

Q: Suppose I want to upgrade from a Honda. In general, will I get more trade-in value from a Honda dealer? Or is it the same as from a Toyota dealer?
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Re: How does car trade-in works?

Post by Abe »

htdrag11 wrote:
Abe wrote:A dealer will not give you more than wholesale if you trade-in. It could be less but not more. They try to determine what's important to you. If you want more for your trade-in than wholesale, they may give you more and make up the difference in the price of the car you are buying. They are good at juggling the numbers. If you are going to trade-in your car, I would not tell the dealer initially. After getting the best cash price you can, ask how much they will give you for your car. At least that way, you will have a more realistic figure as to what they are giving you for your vehicle.
Is there a way find out about the whole-sale price?
There are places online that have that information like Consumer Reports, Blue Book, Edmonds, etc. I don't know how accurate they are. You would have to do some research. One thing you might do is take it to several used car lots and see what they will give you for it. There are also books that publish this information. I saw one recently on a stand at the super market when I was getting checked out. If you know someone in the business, they might give you some information. The thing is you are going to take a hit if you trade. As I and others have said, you will only get wholesale or less with a trade and then there is the mark up on the new vehicle. It's just a matter of if the trade off is worth it to you or not.
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Re: How does car trade-in works?

Post by htdrag11 »

Abe, convenience always has a price.

As for trading a Honda in a Honda dealership vs. Toyota, it's my guess that the former would yield a better deal, but you could guess from all previous posts, YMMV depending on how eager you're or the dealer.
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Re: How does car trade-in works?

Post by Watty »

whomever wrote:Since we're talking about selling a fairly new car, how do people arrange payment when selling, say, a $15K car on craigslist?

My previous experience selling cars all involved prices in the few hundreds of dollars range, and I only accepted cash. How do you safely accept payment of thousands? Once upon a time cashier's checks were deemed safe, but IIUC they are fairly commonly forged these days. What do people do, if the buyer isn't family/friend/etc where you'd take a personal check?
Counterfeit cash can also be a problem. The way the scam works is once they get the signed title they quickly take the car to some used car lot and sell the car for cash and you have no recourse against the car dealer since you signed the title.

I have twice met sellers who wanted to pay about $5,000 for a car in cash at my bank. I would have the title ready then we would go to the teller and explain what was happening and ask the teller to check the cash to make sure it looked OK. Once the teller looked at the cash I signed the title and deposited the check. It only takes a minute or so.

When they wanted to pay by check, then I would meet them at their bank and go up to the teller with them and have a the teller make a bank check out to me while I was standing there watching, and signing the title (there may be a few dollar fee).

This may seem like overkill but most buyers will be just as nervous with dealing with the funds as you are and doing something like this protects both of you.
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Re: How does car trade-in work?

Post by LadyGeek »

This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (buying a car). I also fixed the title "works?" to "work?".
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Re: How does car trade-in work?

Post by SpaceCowboy »

Wholesale price on a car is usually referred to as Mannheim. Mannheim runs auctions and provides other services such as reconditioning to the industry. The dealers subscribe to a database with the auction prices. It is tough to get more than Mannheim from a dealer. You can ask the dealer what Mannheim is on the vehicle, but only about 50% will tell you.
Carmax is probably the quickest and easiest way to get a wholesale price that you can use as a floor in bargaining. Private party sale is the way to go for top dollar if you have the time and are willing to deal with the various hassles.
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Re: How does car trade-in works?

Post by Abe »

htdrag11 wrote:Abe, convenience always has a price.
Yes indeed, everything has a price.
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Re: How does car trade-in work?

Post by thomase »

Don't know how well they work but there is such a thing as a retrofit seat heater kit.
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Re: How does car trade-in work?

Post by htdrag11 »

That is a cheaper alternative for the bun warmer but the tailgate is heavy for her, especially with groceries.

I'll find out what is my "pain" threshold when I start seriously looking on Thursday, last day of the month.

Winter is still several months away and money is not burning a hole in my pocket.
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Re: How does car trade-in works?

Post by dbCooperAir »

modelamike wrote:
Abe wrote:A dealer will not give you more than wholesale if you trade-in. It could be less but not more. They try to determine what's important to you. If you want more for your trade-in than wholesale, they may give you more and make up the difference in the price of the car you are buying. They are good at juggling the numbers. If you are going to trade-in your car, I would not tell the dealer initially. After getting the best cash price you can, ask how much they will give you for your car. At least that way, you will have a more realistic figure as to what they are giving you for your vehicle.
Good advice.

The time honored technique to buy a new car with a trade is go to three dealers (not one or two). Then compare the deals, pick the best one, go in and negotiate down from there if possible. Used car prices from the internet or published wholesale books might give you confidence but this not rocket science.
This + have your wife drop you off a block from the dealer so they have no clue what your are driving, I think they write down whatever you are driving so they know what they maybe dealing with. And always, always shop for the best cash price. If the sales person wants to play the game that they need to talk to manager about the price tell them nicely to get the manager over so you can haggle directly with someone who can make a decision. I deal on the best out the door price including all the other charges they feel they can dream up.

I'm not a fan of aftermarket warranties, when I bought my last vehicle I told the sale person if you or anyone else speaks to me about anything aftermarket I'm going to ding $1,000 off the price for every time its brought up. This was probably the hardest thing for them to deal with as they have 2-3 people in the mix. I made the same deal about the dealer sticker!

As a side note, you can add electric heat to most seats, if you can live with what you have it may not be a bad option. But if the wife is not happy know one is happy!
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Re: How does car trade-in work?

Post by dolphinsaremammals »

Never having had a car with a tail gate, and being "mature" myself, I am curious as to how much they weigh?

I guess if I ever sell my car, this is something I should avoid. Are there other car features a mature driver should avoid that are not obvious like this? Sorry for hijacking thread.
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Re: How does car trade-in work?

Post by livesoft »

The auto-lift tailgate is nice. You press a button and the tailgate lifts up. Buttons are available on the key fob or on the tailgate itself. Since the Lexus uses proximity of the key fob, one doesn't even need to reach into your pocket: Simply grab the locked door and it unlocks for you.

I bought a used (CPO) RX 350 2011 a couple months ago: http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... 2#p2041202 after negotiating down about 15% from original asking price. It has heated/cooled seats.
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Re: How does car trade-in works?

Post by Sbashore »

goblue100 wrote:My suggestion to you is if you have a CarMax in your area, go get a quote on what they would pay for your car. I believe they will honor the quote for 7 days, so that will set a floor. My dealer wouldn't come close to matching what CarMax offered without increasing the price paid for the new vehicle, so I said forget about the trade in and just negotiated on the new vehicle, and sold my old car at CarMax the next day for the quoted price they gave me.
I did this too and it worked well for me. The dealer actually matched the CarMax price and maintained the sales price of the new vehicle. Probably the type/condition of the vehicle has something to do with it
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Re: How does car trade-in work?

Post by opus360 »

I prefer a remote car starter instead of having heated seats. With a heated car, you don't need heated seats. On hot days, you can just remotely start the car and you get a cool car when you get in. If you're getting a new to you car for heated seats, you might as well get one with heated steering wheel. Hell, these days, you can also get heated armrest in a car.
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Re: How does car trade-in work?

Post by denovo »

The worst thing about trading in a car less than 2 years old is that everyone will assume it is a lemon.
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Re: How does car trade-in work?

Post by htdrag11 »

This is our 4th Mazda and it has NO recall!!!

I did notice that the ride has gotten worse around 25k but the tires look OK. It was not my plan to trade the car that soon either.

On a brighter note, our portfolio has gone up very nicely, unless there is a 10% correction. Regardless, our expenses are below our income so we're OK with the expenditure. We only have one car (down from 3), but buying a 2nd car would really be wasteful.
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Re: How does car trade-in work?

Post by htdrag11 »

livesoft wrote:The auto-lift tailgate is nice. You press a button and the tailgate lifts up. Buttons are available on the key fob or on the tailgate itself. Since the Lexus uses proximity of the key fob, one doesn't even need to reach into your pocket: Simply grab the locked door and it unlocks for you.

I bought a used (CPO) RX 350 2011 a couple months ago: http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... 2#p2041202 after negotiating down about 15% from original asking price. It has heated/cooled seats.
Great. I'll check out eBay motors for the floor.

I prefer the 2012 since it uses regular gas but w/ lower hp. All CPO cars have the Premium package that include leather/heated seats and power tailgate.
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Re: How does car trade-in work?

Post by livesoft »

I've only put regular gas into my 2011 RX350. Nobody told me otherwise. I hardly drive it though. I would assume that only if the engine knocks would it need higher octane.
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Re: How does car trade-in work?

Post by LadyGeek »

What matters is the owner's manual. As long as it says to use regular (87), you should be OK. Higher octane is always better, but your car doesn't care about gas prices.
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Re: How does car trade-in work?

Post by 123 »

Is it realistic to try to have parts swapped from a recent wreck (or even new parts) to get heated seats etc? I wouldn't know if it needs a different wiring harness or if you just get them plugged in and transfer the switch controls as well. Even if it cost you $4000 it would be cheaper then buying a whole replacement car.

Maybe an automotive upholstery shop could give you some guidance on an upgrade/conversion/swap. A true Boglehead might just bring along a hot water bottle or two to sit on. Maybe use a heat retaining/reflective cushion of some type. Amazon has lots of options - just search there for "heated seat". I guess a lot of people buy cards in warm weather and have regrets when winter comes and their butt gets cold.

I get the feeling there's another agenda besides just heated seats and a different tailgate.
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Re: How does car trade-in work?

Post by htdrag11 »

Everyone thought that I'm a scrooge, sort of the the Abnegation people in Divergent by Veronica Roth. I also told my wife what our budget and our portfolio are, so we need to spend our child's inheritance.

As I said earlier, our expenses are below our income so we're OK with the expenditure. Her shoulder is no longer how it used to be either, another sign of maturity. In the past, she kept her Saab for over 10 years. We only drive one car, not that we could not afford a 2nd car (more a toy then).

As for the Toyota vs Lexus, she did not care but the Toyota looks like my MIL. :twisted:
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Re: How does car trade-in work?

Post by placeholder »

LadyGeek wrote:Higher octane is always better, but your car doesn't care about gas prices.
I don't believe that is the case because unless the engine is designed to use higher compression the higher octane won't do anything except burn money.
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Re: How does car trade-in work?

Post by htdrag11 »

There is a car with a remote starter, cost a bit more. Another one with the crummy navigation package and auto-parking feature which is good for my wife, but I do not need it (used to live in NYC).

My Mazda has the touring package which was fine for me in 2013 but no leather/heated seat; power liftgate was not even an option.
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Re: How does car trade-in work?

Post by livesoft »

htdrag11 wrote:… auto-parking feature which is good for my wife, but I do not need it (used to live in NYC).
Park assist is not the same as auto-parking, just in case you didn't know.
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Re: How does car trade-in work?

Post by htdrag11 »

I probably misread the option; it was park assist, not auto parking.

My cheap Mazda does have a rear camera.
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Re: How does car trade-in work?

Post by livesoft »

When I was looking for an RX350, I set a very wide search radius --- 250 miles. Our local prices were inflated, so I used the knowledge of lower prices elsewhere when negotiating. I had a trip plan to a city 3 hours away for other reasons, so I looked online for what was available there, too.

I used edmunds.com, kbb.com, truecar.com, carnax.com, ebay, and the lexus site as well. They have some overlap of vehicles shown, but each site seemed to have a few extra cars shown only on that site. Carmax is the no hassle, so one should always negotiate less than carmax even at a lexus dealer.

Also note that the carfax report was available free on one site while another site have a free competitor's report. The other sites wanted one to pay for the report, but usually I could find the report for free.

Also not all the CPOs were accident free. Typical wording though was "minor accident at rear bumper, airbags did not deploy".
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Re: How does car trade-in work?

Post by htdrag11 »

Yes, CPO does not meant accident free.

There is one major Lexus dealer here with 2 locations only 20 miles apart. The one closer to me is in the high end district, so commands a higher list price.

The nearest Carmax is about 66 miles from where I'm but only 10 miles from my favorite MIL. :twisted:

How many miles you have on your RX when you bought it? I'm looking for comparative mileage but my car came out in mid-2012, labeled as 2013 model.

Thanks.
livesoft
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Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:00 pm

Re: How does car trade-in work?

Post by livesoft »

I sent you a pm. As for "commands a higher list price", that's silly. People may pay that, but it doesn't mean you have to.
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ClevrChico
Posts: 3259
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:24 pm

Re: How does car trade-in work?

Post by ClevrChico »

You can get a trade in value over email. Most dealers will offer to come to your house for an appraisal. Shop around! Solid used cars are in demand.
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