Pet fish recommendations

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sunnyday
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Pet fish recommendations

Post by sunnyday »

My toddler loves animals so we're thinking about getting her a fish. We would like something that is low maintenance and a small enough tank where we can move it to a friends place while we're out of town. Any recommendations for types of fish and other things we'll need?
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LowER
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Re: Pet fish recommendations

Post by LowER »

One male beta. Low oxygen needs and can live in a small non-aerated bowl. Pretty low maintenance. A toddler may be able to easily spill such a small container though.
livesoft
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Re: Pet fish recommendations

Post by livesoft »

That's a very good suggestion if the indoor home temperature is tropical.

One could have 2 mayonnaise jars of water. Keep fish in one jar for a few days while other jar sits next to it to let chlorine leave and to let temperature equilibrate with jar with fish next to it. When fish needs a change of water, pour out water leaving some with fish. Add new pre-equilibrated water or just dump fish into new jar leaving fish poop and dissolved ammonia (also from fish, but deadly to him) behind.

Feeding it too much will kill it. Decomposing food in the water will kill it. Sudden temperature changes will kill it. High chlorine or ammonia will kill it.

Just look up how to keep this fish happy in a book or online.
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Mudpuppy
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Re: Pet fish recommendations

Post by Mudpuppy »

The only thing that can be in a small enough tank to move is a betta, as LowER already said. I would however recommend a very simple filter and at least a 1.5 gallon bowl (preferably a 3 gallon setup). Don't use those little betta cups and don't try to put any other fish in a small tank. A single goldfish needs at least 10 gallons for example.

Here would be a good setup for a single betta:
1) 1.5 to 3 gallon COVERED tank (the cover is important, bettas jump quite far, and I don't think you want your child to experience finding the fish dried up on the floor).
2) A simple air driven filter with a small air pump or a small, internal mechanical filter.
3) A small heater (10-25W). One that is preset to 78F is fine. But don't completely skip the heater as bettas are tropical fish and should be kept in the mid-70s as much as possible.
4) Silk plants or plastic plants with no "pokey" bits. I prefer silk plants as they don't have sharp or pokey edges that the fish can accidentally damage himself on.
5) An aquarium siphon designed for small tanks for the water changes, plus the appropriate water treatment chemical for your area (I'm a fan of Ultimate, but it's hard to find in pet stores; anything that treats both chlorine and chloramine should be fine).
6) (optional) Any other decoration that catches your child's eye that would fit in the tank.
7) (optional) A thin layer of gravel or stone. Keep it thin enough that the siphon can easily suction up waste, about a quarter inch is more than enough. My current betta has no gravel at all.

Use the siphon to change about 50% of the water at least twice a month (up to once a week would also be fine), making sure to suction out the waste from the bottom of the tank. Keep empty 1 gallon water bottles on hand for the new water. Fill the water bottle up the day before the water change and add the appropriate water treatment chemical. Then let it set overnight to off-gas and come to room temperature. That's a whole lot less jarring that tossing water straight from the tap back in the tank.

Keep the bowl the betta came in. If you need to do a deep cleaning because the tank's particularly dirty, you can fill the bowl with water from the tank, transfer the betta to the bowl with a small fish net, then empty the entire tank. Set the filter aside, rinse the tank thoroughly in tap water, refill with the overnight treated water, turn the heater back on, then acclimate the betta by slowly replacing water in the bowl with water from the tank. You can also do this to transfer the betta to your friends' house while you are on vacation. Then you won't be motivated to buy too small of a tank just to keep it portable.

Also, fish don't need daily tending while you are on vacation like cats or dogs. If you're gone for less than a week, the fish will be fine without food. He will likely be at the front of the tank begging for food when you return, but the occasional week without food does not hurt a betta. When I am gone, the pet sitter for the cats just feeds the betta (and my other fish) twice a week. It's never been an issue. If your friends can come over twice a week to feed the betta and water the plants, there would be no need to move him, unless you plan to be gone for several weeks at a time.

In fact, most people overfeed their bettas, and this can kill them since decaying food can foul up a small tank very quickly. Bettas will also gorge themselves on food, and this can cause intestinal obstructions if they are fed too much. If you can see a fat belly after feeding, the betta has been fed too much. My betta eats 4-5 New Life Spectrum betta pellets a day. Occasionally he gets a 6th pellet if he's looking a little thin and sometimes he gets only 3 pellets if he's looking a little bloated.
livesoft
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Re: Pet fish recommendations

Post by livesoft »

If one uses a heater in the fish tank, make sure when changing water that the new water is the same temp. But I would see if I could get away without all the accessories.

My home is kept at about 78-80 during summer A/C season, but 'cold' water out of the tap is closer to 90 degrees, so it cannot be used without a day or two of thermal equilibration. During the winter heating season, we would have to heat the replacement water because the house is kept colder and the tap water comes out colder then, too.
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Gropes & Ray
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Re: Pet fish recommendations

Post by Gropes & Ray »

A beta is about the only choice for a tank you can take to a friend's house. But, I have great news! A fish tank can easily go two weeks without you, and more if you know how to do it.

The key is to not buy too many fish for your tank. An often cited rule of thumb is one inch of fish per gallon of tank, but I would do less than that to keep things simple. One gourami or a puffer would be a nice fish if you want just one fish. Tetras and guppies are nice community fish. Guppies will have lots of babies.

One word of caution, a goldfish is actually a pretty tough fish to keep and have thrive. If I wanted gold fish, I would get a 29-40 gallon tank, and just have 2 or 3.
Mudpuppy
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Re: Pet fish recommendations

Post by Mudpuppy »

livesoft wrote:If one uses a heater in the fish tank, make sure when changing water that the new water is the same temp. But I would see if I could get away without all the accessories.

My home is kept at about 78-80 during summer A/C season, but 'cold' water out of the tap is closer to 90 degrees, so it cannot be used without a day or two of thermal equilibration. During the winter heating season, we would have to heat the replacement water because the house is kept colder and the tap water comes out colder then, too.
They make two types of heaters for small tanks. One is just a smaller version of a standard fish heater, but at low wattage (e.g. something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Aqueon-AQE06194-H ... B009ETLY30). The second is like in-floor heating cables; e.g. a heating pad that goes under the tank (something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Hydor-7-5w-Heater ... AFXDN7BJ99). I actually have a 25W Fluval heater for my betta, but it's very similar in design to the Aqueon heater.

Something like the 10W Aqueon is cheap enough that one could just get a spare to put into the replacement water container to heat it up to the mid-70s. Just place the heater so the heating element isn't directly touching the plastic of the water bottle and get a water bottle with a wide enough opening to pass it through, and then you're good to go.
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sunnyday
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Re: Pet fish recommendations

Post by sunnyday »

Thanks for the replies. I may need to get more things than I anticipated. My wife isn't on board yet, but I think I'll try to convince her. Here's what i'm thinking about getting:

3 gallon tank w/ filter - http://www.amazon.com/Tetra-29095-Cube- ... +fish+tank

water heater - http://www.amazon.com/Hydor-7-5w-Heater ... ter+heater

food

1 male beta fish

marbles or rocks for inside the tank (I may wait on plants)

stuff to test the water?

something to clean the tank

Any recommendations on the last 3 items?
livesoft
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Re: Pet fish recommendations

Post by livesoft »

You don't need anything to test the water. You don't need chemicals to treat the water either if you can let the water sit for 24 to 48 hours before using it.

You don't need anything to clean the tank. Certainly never use soap. Paper towels will work fine to scrub out anything.

Marbles or rocks or coarse gravel is a plus since they will create a larger surface area for the beneficial bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrite and the bacteria that convert nitrite to nitrate to grow on.

Filters don't really keep the water or tank visually clean. They simply provide a larger surface area for the beneficial bacteria to grow. The bacteria are sort of brown-colored. Since you will have only one fish and you will change the water often, a filter is not really necessary. That's why a mayonnaise jar is also fine for this one fish: you can change the water often.

For the aquarium you picked, you have to think about how you will remove a gallon of water every week and put in a fresh pre-equilibrated gallon of water. You can probably just scoop out the water with a clean glass or mayonnaise jar. If you want to siphon up the fish poop, then you will want to get something to do that such as a pipette attached to plastic or rubber tubing.
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Calm Man
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Re: Pet fish recommendations

Post by Calm Man »

This comes from an animal lover. Better might be to show the child what it is for a fish to live in a mayonnaise jar as some are suggesting. You can show them the fish in a store (usually in a big tank) and ask the child how do they think the fish would feel if limited to a small jar or bow. Maybe the child would say it appeared not very comfortable. That would be wonderful.
Mudpuppy
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Re: Pet fish recommendations

Post by Mudpuppy »

At 3 gallons, you might want to go with the 10W heater instead of the 7.5W heater. You can hide it behind a decoration or fake plant to make it less obvious. A 7.5W might not be strong enough to maintain an even temperature. Even 10W is a bit low, but would be slightly more able to maintain temperatures.

If you don't want to haul the whole tank over to the sink every cleaning, a siphon for a small tank and a 2 gallon bucket will make water changes much easier. You can get the bucket at any big box store (mop aisle has many options). Pet stores sell small siphons meant for betta tanks. Start the siphon, put the bottom in the bucket, and let gravity do the work for you. You could also scoop water out as livesoft suggested, but you won't be able to clean the gravel that way. I like to keep the bottom clean, as accumulated waste and uneaten food is one of the bigger nitrogen sources in a tank.

Since this is a plastic tank, spend the $5 on a plastic-safe (acrylic-safe) aquarium sponge to wipe down the occasional algae or bacterial film from the sides. If there's one thing I've noticed, the small plastic tanks scratch easily. Be careful to not trap gravel between the tank and sponge, as that will also scratch it (more of a concern when using sand or very small gravel). Wipe down the sides before you change the water, and in between water changes if there's a buildup on the sides.

If your city water treats with chloramine instead of chlorine, you will need something to neutralize that like Prime or Ultimate. Chloramine does not dissipate after sitting out for 24 hours like chlorine does, which is part of the reason some water companies have switched to using it (more stable in the line and less byproducts of breakdown). You can check with your water company to see what they use to treat the water.

According to the Tetra page, the Tetra 3i is a small internal power filter, not an undergravel filter, so the choice of gravel/stone will have very little bearing on the biological filtration capacity. Most of your beneficial bacteria will be in the filter media. Make sure to read up on how to maintain the filter without disrupting the beneficial bacteria (primarily making sure to rinse in filtered water instead of straight tap water, as chlorine/chloramines kill beneficial bacteria).

You do not need the Tetra SafeStart or EasyBalance mentioned on the Amazon page, which are supposedly beneficial bacteria boosts. There's conflicting opinions about whether this actually works or not, and with a single betta in 3 gallons, you can control the "cycling" process with weekly water changes. Cycling is the build-up of beneficial bacteria, and it happens naturally in an aquarium over the course of about two months, then stabilizes (as long as you take care to not disrupt the bacteria when maintaining the filter).

Likewise, you can skip the Tetra AmmoniaSafe, WaterClarifier, and AlgaeControl. One reason I recommend Prime and Ultimate is they can all be used to treat ammonia spikes, along with treating chloramines. This makes sense since chloramine is really a mix of chlorine and ammonia. Anything that effectively treats chloramine (e.g. breaks the bond between the ammonia and chlorine, then separately neutralizes the chlorine and ammonia) will also work against free-standing ammonia. As for the other two, you shouldn't have algae issues in a tank this small other than some on the plastic from time to time. And minor cloudiness during the cycling process is normal and shouldn't be treated (it's a sign the bacteria are growing, they just haven't "settled" onto the filter media yet). Major cloudiness could be a bacterial or algae bloom, but easily handled with a water change in a small tank (now when my 40g tank had an algae bloom... not a pretty sight, but I used mechanical filtration instead of chemicals as that was safer for the fish).

The test strips recommended on the Amazon page are just for ammonia, and ammonia should only be a concern during the first month of cycling. You can likely skip these and just rely on observing the fish. If he appears lethargic or distressed, do a water change. With many tanks, there can be benefit to getting a 5-in-1 or 6-in-1 test strip kit or a master test kit, but with a single betta that's not as needed. Although, when your child is older and more into science/chemistry, fish tank test kits are a great way to get a child started on the idea of precise measuring, reagents, and chemical reactions. A toddler would not appreciate such things though.
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Dtort
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Re: Pet fish recommendations

Post by Dtort »

Correction! You will probably need to treat the water anyway. Leaving the water out for a couple of days worked when cities treated their water with chlorine, as the chlorine dissipated. But many cites now treat their water with chloramine, which does NOT dissipate. Ask your local fish store how they treat their water, if they're on the same system as your home. The other point, of leaving the new bowl next to the old one so that the temperature is the same, is a very good idea.
(I am an occasional betta breeder.)
postingname
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Re: Pet fish recommendations

Post by postingname »

Mudpuppy wrote:
1) 1.5 to 3 gallon COVERED tank (the cover is important, bettas jump quite far, and I don't think you want your child to experience finding the fish dried up on the floor).
Goldfish also jump. I am permanently scarred from childhood after seeing my goldfish -- only a few short hours after purchasing -- lying on the kitchen floor next to the refrigerator. Lesson learned!
livesoft
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Re: Pet fish recommendations

Post by livesoft »

Of course goldfish jump. Here is a classic inspiring public service announcement about a jumping goldfish:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKEf-Sc6ytQ
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sunnyday
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Re: Pet fish recommendations

Post by sunnyday »

My water company said the water is treated with chloramines. So I guess I need a testing kit too and whatever removes the chloramines.

After my wife read this thread, I joked that we should get a dog instead so it will be easier to take care of.
livesoft
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Re: Pet fish recommendations

Post by livesoft »

You really will not need a testing kit because you can be assured that the solution to treat your water for chloramines with work according to the directions.

You could also just buy a gallon of drinking water every week at the grocery store instead of using tap water.

(Don't show that video to your toddler or they might decide to "free" your fish by throwing it out the window.)
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walkabout
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Re: Pet fish recommendations

Post by walkabout »

Since the OP mentioned a pet alternative (dog) first, albeit probably as a joke, I would encourage you to consider a cat or kitten from a shelter. Should be less trouble than a fish (based on my reading of the thread so far). Less than a dog (no walks in the rain, heat, cold, etc). If you get one, consider getting two so they can keep each other company if necessary.

Also, maybe it's just me, but is it really reasonable (maybe it is, I don't know) to consider, as one of the selling points for getting a fish, that you can move it to a friend's place when you go out of town? It sounds to me like it will be more trouble than it's worth to move it. Of course, my preference for our cats is to hire a pet sitter to come to our house when we are out of town. Our sitter is more trustworthy than our neighbor (who forgot to tend to our cats when we were out of town for a weekend - the first and only time we asked them).

Good luck either way, but consider a cat (or two).
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sunnyday
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Re: Pet fish recommendations

Post by sunnyday »

wageoghe wrote:Since the OP mentioned a pet alternative (dog) first, albeit probably as a joke, I would encourage you to consider a cat or kitten from a shelter. Should be less trouble than a fish (based on my reading of the thread so far). Less than a dog (no walks in the rain, heat, cold, etc). If you get one, consider getting two so they can keep each other company if necessary.

Also, maybe it's just me, but is it really reasonable (maybe it is, I don't know) to consider, as one of the selling points for getting a fish, that you can move it to a friend's place when you go out of town? It sounds to me like it will be more trouble than it's worth to move it. Of course, my preference for our cats is to hire a pet sitter to come to our house when we are out of town. Our sitter is more trustworthy than our neighbor (who forgot to tend to our cats when we were out of town for a weekend - the first and only time we asked them).

Good luck either way, but consider a cat (or two).
My wife is allergic to cats. We'll just have someone feed the fish if we're on shorter trips. We would like to eventually spend summers in a different state. In that case, we would move the fish to a relative's house.
livesoft
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Re: Pet fish recommendations

Post by livesoft »

wageoghe wrote:I would encourage you to consider a cat or kitten from a shelter. Should be less trouble than a fish (based on my reading of the thread so far).
Thanks for the laugh. I think you have forgotten all the things you need to do to take care of your cats. I'll remind you of just one: Litter box.
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newkidontheblock
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Re: Pet fish recommendations

Post by newkidontheblock »

Most of the stores that sell fish will test you water for you.
You can buy automate feeders to feed the fish while you not home on on vacation.
Lighting in the aquarium can be controlled via a timer to simulate day and night time.
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Dtort
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Re: Pet fish recommendations

Post by Dtort »

A bit off topic, but here’s a word of caution about fish sitters in general:
Be sure to DEMONSTRATE to the sitter how little food is needed. If the sitter is not familiar with tropical fish, they will find it hard to believe how little food is needed. You need to explain that they are not feeding the tank, but rather, the fish IN the tank…and the fishes’ stomach is about the same size as their eyeball. Stress to your friend that the danger of the fish dying in water polluted from overfeeding is MUCH greater than the risk of starving to death.
DW and I used to have a mom-and-pop tropical fish store. We never once had a customer come back from vacation to starved fish, but we had numerous examples of where a well-meaning fish sitter overfed the tank, the food rotted, and the fishes died.
Mudpuppy
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Re: Pet fish recommendations

Post by Mudpuppy »

Bettas can take a little bit of abuse. My betta in his 5 gallon tank was the only one to survive the weekend of roommate hell that killed about $200 worth of imported cichlids in a larger tank (let's just say turning off the AC when it's 100F outside and dumping a ton of food in the tank is a great way to kill fish). The keyword there is a "bit" of abuse. Their secondary organ to extract oxygen from the atmosphere allows them to withstand a brief period of bad water. But long-term exposure to poor water (e.g. too much food, too hot, too cold) will wear them down.
Rockies1978
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Re: Pet fish recommendations

Post by Rockies1978 »

I've kept saltwater reef systems and planted freshwater tanks in the past.

While not wanting to be preachy, I personally do not advise keeping a betta in an uncirculated bowl unless you're willing to do daily water changes of at least 25%. And at that point, why not just have a filtration system?

Bettas are labyrinth fish, which means they're capable of surface breathing. That said, as all fish do, they emit waste. That waste launches the nitrogen cycle, and the end result is that, barring some means of nitrate export, you're forcing them to live in toxic water. Because they're a labyrinth fish, they're better able to withstand high nitrate water. That's why we call them "hardy." But that doesn't mean it's particularly humane to house them in those conditions. It's a bit analogous to asking you to tread water in a pool with riddled with feces, then telling you it's no big deal because you breathe from the surface, not from gills.

The portability of an aquarium is really just about the weight of the tank and how much you can safely lug around. It's kind of an annoying and messy process, especially if the tank isn't cleaned regularly. All that jostling will cause detritus to unsettle from the substrate and cloud the tank. But there's no reason you couldn't move a little 2 gallon aquarium around if you needed to.
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