Buying a camper

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bungalow10
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Buying a camper

Post by bungalow10 »

My family and I like to camp. We have a 6 year old, 4 year old, and 1 year old. We would like to buy a camper so the packing, setup, and tear down process is easier and faster.

What we want
* a place to sleep that is dry - sleeping 5-6 would be good, but could make due with sleeping for four
* fast set up and tear down (ideally a hard side, not a popup, although a pull out bed or something wouldn't be too bad)
* air flow in the sleeping area (needs windows/screens, a converted cargo trailer won't work)
* storage for equipment that is dedicated to camping (we don't have much, dishes and cookware, first aid, some tools)
* something light weight that allows us to pull it with a small SUV or minivan
* I would love to be able to attach an awning to it

What we don't want
* A/C - we would never use it
* plumbing - no toilet, no shower, doesn't even need a sink - we would likely never even hook water up to a sink
* cooking area - we cook outside, we would probably never use indoor cook top (but I understand these are pretty standard)
* microwave
* TV

Any suggestions for brands or models to start looking at? We'd like to buy used to keep the price down.
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Random Poster
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Re: Buying a camper

Post by Random Poster »

Escape Travel Trailer:

http://escapetrailer.com/

They have a 15' and a 17' model that you can get without a bathroom.

I don't have one, or any trailer for that matter, but I visited the factory and was impressed with what I saw. Each one is essentially built to your specifications (within reason).
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dratkinson
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Re: Buying a camper

Post by dratkinson »

Ask the folks on the Teardrops and Tiny Travel Trailers forum: tnttt.com . Lots of ideas there and they like showing/telling how they built/use their camping trailers. They might be able to suggest something you could build simply to suit your needs.
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tyrion
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Re: Buying a camper

Post by tyrion »

I'm surprised you're not interested in a pop-up, as it seems to meet all your needs in an economical package. The main reason I've seen a hard sided preferred is for safety when camping in bear country. Hard sided campers are harder to tow, heavier, more expensive, less ventilated, etc.
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bungalow10
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Re: Buying a camper

Post by bungalow10 »

tyrion wrote:I'm surprised you're not interested in a pop-up, as it seems to meet all your needs in an economical package. The main reason I've seen a hard sided preferred is for safety when camping in bear country. Hard sided campers are harder to tow, heavier, more expensive, less ventilated, etc.
I grew up camping every-other-weekend in pop-ups and I think the thing that gets met is the time to setup camp and tear down. They really aren't good when you are pulling into a site at near-dark (which happens during fall camping after work on Friday), or when you have to tear-down in the rain. I also remember popping the camper up in the driveway to pack and unpack for each trip.

Pop-ups also aren't conducive to road trips in which you might want to camp at five different places in 10 days - lots of extra hassle at each site.

DH and have talked about a pop-up, but we really think we'd rather have a hard-side. We are open to hearing arguments though. Admittedly, it has been 20 years since my pop-up experiences.
An elephant for a dime is only a good deal if you need an elephant and have a dime.
texasdiver
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Re: Buying a camper

Post by texasdiver »

I camp with a Fleetwood Arcadia popup which is about the largest popup on the market. I pull it with a Toyota Sienna and have hauled it to a huge number of places with in about a 800 mile radius of Central Texas from Carlesbad NM to Destin FL which is mostly flat highway driving except for the Ozarks. The Arcadia is about the largest trailer one can haul with a minivan and probably too large at about 3300 lbs. I use a weight distributing hitch.

We love the popup but are always looking for something more. Frankly you will not find anything to sleep 5 in a non popup format that is also towable by a minivan. A hard sided camper large enough for 5 is going to require a full size SUV or full size truck to tow. Some thoughts on camping with a family based on my experience. We are also a family of 5 but my 3 girls are a bit older than yours.

1. Get a camper that is large enough to separate sleeping and living areas. Nothing will make your or your kids more crazy than needing to pick up the beds to convert the seating back to dining or sofa each morning and then again at night in reverse. One great things about popups is that they have the sleeping bay at each end that stays sleeping area for the duration so the kids can go to sleep early or sleep in late or just hang in their nest on a rainy day and you aren't needing to move them to convert the seating back to a dining table or seating area. I like to get up early and have my coffee while the kids are still sleeping and that can't happen if I have to wake and move the kids each morning to get to my couch. And my wife and I like to sit in the dinette in the evening with a glass of wine and a book after the kids are in bed. That can't happen if they are sleeping in a dinette berth. The little teardrop campers are super cute for singles or couples but I wouldn't want one for a family.

2. Don't underestimate the utility of having a toilet when camping with kids, especially girls. Especially at night when the campground toilet is far. A porta potty will work but when the 4 year needs to go potty at 1 am you will be glad for it.

3. We don't cook much inside the camper even though it has a full stove but we do have a cheap portable microwave that rides in the camper that is great for popcorn, hot dogs, etc.

I think when you are done with your research you will end up concluding that for minivan towing a popup will give you the best options despite the need to set up. Modern popups can be set up pretty quick. Anything else big enough for a family is going to require a bigger truck. And craigslist is your go to place for used campers.

Ps. This guy put together an amazing site on popups and small hard side campers. He had a Fleetwood Niagara which is nearly identical to mine before upgrading to a hard side camper and has a huge collection of pics, modifications, and comments about campers documented. http://popupbackpacker.com that is worth studying for ideas.
Last edited by texasdiver on Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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JMacDonald
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Re: Buying a camper

Post by JMacDonald »

One these might work for you: http://casitatraveltrailers.com/index.html
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texasdiver
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Re: Buying a camper

Post by texasdiver »

By the way. Every camper requires setup. If you have a hard sided camper you will still be fussing around to level it, connect the hookups, deploy the awning, unpack the interior from the towing configuration and so forth. Yes, the popup does add some time but not that much. I would estimate my popup probably adds no more than 10 minutes to my setup routine over a hard sided camper: (1) unlatch the roof, (2) crank up the roof, (3) pull out each slide and attach the support braces, (4) hook the tenting bungee cords around the ends, (5) fit the front door in place, and basically done. All the other setup and unpacking is the same as any other camper.

The one issue is if you get rained on and put the camper away wet. Then you will have to set it back up to dry at the next campsite or at home. In a rainy climate that could be an issue. In Texas it is not.
Luke Duke
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Re: Buying a camper

Post by Luke Duke »

bungalow10 wrote: What we don't want
* A/C - we would never use it
* plumbing - no toilet, no shower, doesn't even need a sink - we would likely never even hook water up to a sink
* cooking area - we cook outside, we would probably never use indoor cook top (but I understand these are pretty standard)
* microwave
* TV
It will probably be impossible to find a travel trailer without all of these features. If you did, then it wouldn't qualify as a second residence for tax purposes. This would only matter if you take out a loan.

A second home is a place with sleeping, cooking, and toilet facilities.
gerrym51
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Re: Buying a camper

Post by gerrym51 »

Look at Jayco trailers. your problem is you need sleeping for 5. very hard to find with no amenities :mrgreen:

this hybrid might work for you

http://www.jayco.com/products/travel-tr ... lite/x18d/
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TxAg
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Re: Buying a camper

Post by TxAg »

I think it's great that you and the fam will be camping...great way to spend time together. I don't have any input on a camper, but I would like to suggest a couple lightweight hammocks for lounging and napping around camp. I just picked up an ENO (eagles nest outfitters) Doublenest hammock that is awesome. It beats a lawn chair any day.
gerrym51
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Re: Buying a camper

Post by gerrym51 »

dpc
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Re: Buying a camper

Post by dpc »

My only comment is to pay close attention to the rated towing capacity of your intended vehicle and the weight of the trailer you are looking at. To me, that is the fundamental limitation. Small 4-cylinder SUVs can have quite a low towing capacity. Hybrids generally have no or very low towing capacity.

I know families that ended up buying a new rig to pull their new travel trailer - right after they tried to tow it over a mountain pass.
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user5027
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Re: Buying a camper

Post by user5027 »

dpc wrote:I know families that ended up buying a new rig to pull their new travel trailer - right after they tried to tow it over a mountain pass.
My father in 1966 was pulling the boat/trailer with the family station wagon through the hills of western Maryland to Deep Creek Lake for a camping trip. After we got home he went to the Ford dealership and bought a Galaxy 500 with a 390 V8. It became my high school ride. I now question my parent's letting me at age 16 have that much HP.
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Watty
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Re: Buying a camper

Post by Watty »

One thing to consider is where you will store it when you are not using it.

We had a pop-up when I was a kid and we were able to keep in on one side of the house when it was not in use because it had a low profile. A hard sided trailer would have been much higher and could not have been stored there.

Another alternative would be to get a large enclosed box trailer that you use to store and haul your stuff and then still tent camp. You would still need to do the setup but you would have a lot more flexibility to take things like bikes for the kids. You might also be able to haul that better with your current vehicle.
wilked
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Re: Buying a camper

Post by wilked »

No brainer to go for the teardrop

Image

Edit to add:
Design for sleeping 4 here
http://www.angib.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/t ... tear47.htm

Am I correct in that when the kids are older, they would only be in the teardrop if raining outside? I know as I kid I definitely preferred a tent over the RV we occasionally used
white_water
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Re: Buying a camper

Post by white_water »

You may want to look at a used Scamp, Burro and Boler ( similar to the Casita fiberglass lightweight trailer.) The smaller models were available w/o bathroom and have bunks where the front bath would be. Yes, cook tops are usually standard, as is a sink and fresh water tank.

Slightly off topic, but germaine, I've pulled trailers including a Scamp with a small vehicle. It's not how much your car or truck can pull, but how much it can stop. Rationale for this statement; some of the smaller fiberglass trailers i.e. 13 ft Scamp, do not have electric brakes.
WhyNotUs
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Re: Buying a camper

Post by WhyNotUs »

Teardrops and casitas are fine for a couple, with three kids you need a popup. You can get everyone a place to sleep and maybe even a shred of privacy for you and wife. Used ones go down in price in the fall around here. Find a website to learn how to winterize whatever you get and keep the critters out or you will be sad in the spring. Look for light or hyper light in the name. Coleman's cost a premium that is not justified in my mind. The floor plan and easy of getting it raised would be my top concerns. Another nice thing about popups is that they become fun sleepover spots when you children are old enough and sleep spot for visitors.
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bungalow10
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Re: Buying a camper

Post by bungalow10 »

Thank you to everyone that has responded! Keep the ideas coming, there's definitely a lot to consider (luckily we aren't going to buy for at least 12 months).

To respond to a few questions or suggestions, DH and the kids and I currently camp quite a bit and have camped for years. I don't want bathroom facilities in the camper, it's just more cleanup. My kids, even my four year old girl (even when she was just 2 and newly potty trained) are a-ok with walking to the pit toilets. To them it's part of the adventure.

We currently have a Lifetime Tent Trailer. It's two full-size beds on the ends, with a tall "living" area in the middle (where we keep clothing and such). It's very comfortable, our last trip we went through four days of severe weather and stayed dry :twisted:

Image

We really like it except that it takes so long to setup and tear down - about 75 minutes each and requires two adults. Tearing down wet means we then have to set up again, or at least lay it out, when we get home. It's a hassle and makes weekend jaunts more trouble than they are worth at times.
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William4u
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Re: Buying a camper

Post by William4u »

Two things...

1. A pop up is pretty nice for family camping. My brother has one, and he loves it. However, it takes him and his wife about an hour to set everything up (including getting the surrounding campsite set up). Read more here... http://www.campingearth.com/popups/

2. A typical Toyota Sienna Minivan, for example, can only tow 1000 lbs (most are sold without the tow package). With the tow package (which most sold today lack), the Sienna can haul 3000 lbs with magnetic trailer brakes. However, many hard top and popup campers push the 3000 lb Minivan limit (as texasdiver mentions above).
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Imperabo
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Re: Buying a camper

Post by Imperabo »

An alternative to a popup:

Get a utility trailer like one of these. Easily towed by a minivan, and useful for many things:
5x8 Trailer
40" x 49" Trailer

Get this tent, which is huge and sets up easily in a minute or 2:
Coleman-14x10-Foot-Person-Instant

To stay organized and speed packing and unpacking put all your gear into big containers like this or whatever you can find locally:
Container

As long as you keep organized you should be able to just toss the containers and whatever large, loose items you have into your trailer and be good to go.


Edit: I've towed a setup like this many times with a 2000 CR-V (1000 pound towing capacity) and with a Sienna (3500 pound towing capacity). The CR-V struggles on the hills, but it's fine. With the Sienna it's like the trailer isn't there.
heyyou
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Re: Buying a camper

Post by heyyou »

For the lack of amenities, you are asking for one that would look like a converted cargo trailer but with multiple side windows for cross ventilation. A cargo trailer chassis is over-built for your purpose.

Custom work on a lighter chassis costs more, but yours would be so plain that custom may be affordable. Put awnings on both sides so the kids can have their own space away from you.
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Re: Buying a camper

Post by lazyfabs »

Raid your 401k and buy one of these http://www.earthroamer.com
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tractorguy
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Re: Buying a camper

Post by tractorguy »

We had a pop up trailer for 5 years when our children were younger. Took it everyplace from Florida to Idaho and I can't say that I ever felt that set up times were too much of an issue. It was usually a dead heat between me getting the trailer torn down in the morning and my spouse getting the 4 girls fed, dressed, and into the car. :D

We've been looking for something a little more comfortable for a couple of years yet but have not yet found anything that excites us. We need the tent that Harry Potter had in one of his books. Small and lightweight on the outside so it can be pulled easily but opening up into an interdimensional mansion on the inside.

I suggest that you look for a local RV and camping show and spend a day looking at the options. There is a big one in Chicago in Feb. I assume that a city near you will have one also.
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Downeastah
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Re: Buying a camper

Post by Downeastah »

bungalow10 wrote: What we want
* a place to sleep that is dry - sleeping 5-6 would be good, but could make due with sleeping for four
* fast set up and tear down (ideally a hard side, not a popup, although a pull out bed or something wouldn't be too bad)
* air flow in the sleeping area (needs windows/screens, a converted cargo trailer won't work)
* storage for equipment that is dedicated to camping (we don't have much, dishes and cookware, first aid, some tools)
* something light weight that allows us to pull it with a small SUV or minivan
* I would love to be able to attach an awning to it

What we don't want
* A/C - we would never use it
* plumbing - no toilet, no shower, doesn't even need a sink - we would likely never even hook water up to a sink
* cooking area - we cook outside, we would probably never use indoor cook top (but I understand these are pretty standard)
* microwave
* TV

Any suggestions for brands or models to start looking at? We'd like to buy used to keep the price down.
Have you looked at Taylor Coach? http://www.taylorcoach.com/ They will custom build to your exact specifications and are reasonably priced. These are not mass produced, are very well built, and they have quite a following. My wife and I currently camp with a pop-up, and will be placing an order for one of these campers in a year or two. I have personally spoken with the owner and he is extremely knowledgeable, and will build what YOU want. We don't want air conditioning, a microwave, TV, shower, etc either but my wife MUST have a toilet!!
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tibbitts
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Re: Buying a camper

Post by tibbitts »

There are popups that shouldn't take 75min to set up - ours was more like 15-20min and could be done by one person. Admittedly setup was not the most fun to do in rain, or hot or cold weather, for that matter, but even hardside campers have some setup to do. Soon your kids will be old enough to do it themselves so you won't have to. And soon after that they'll likely have no interest in traveling with you, of course.

You aren't going to find one without every feature you don't want, because almost everyone wants at least a toilet (or space for one), running water, and (almost everywhere) air conditioning. You aren't going to find a lot of people voluntarily making 3/4/5 trips a night outside to a toilet. We didn't have air conditioning but didn't use the popup in the summer, for the most part. We did use it in well-below-freezing weather sometimes, even below zero occasionally, and it was very helpful to have a heater for those times, and you need gas if you don't always have an electrical connection.

Since you have a place at home to park and dry it out, the popup is definitely the best alternative. Anything hard-side that fits that many kids, even a hybrid (hard sides with pop-out beds), won't be comfortably towable by anything short of a truck or large SUV.
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dbCooperAir
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Re: Buying a camper

Post by dbCooperAir »

bungalow10 wrote: * something light weight that allows us to pull it with a small SUV or minivan
With 4-5 people and the gear you really are looking at a pop-up with using a minivan, not sure what small SUV you are talking about but that may get some more pulling capacity. I would say a simple 8' or 10' box pop-up with no slides.

I'm not exactly sure how they rate the towing capacity of minivans but generally it goes something like: The towing capacity is #2,000 based on a 150# driver then you subtract your 4 other people and all the gear, bikes tied to the roof, gallons of water, ice, etc = not much left. Be sure to check your manual and how they calculate it.

Been thru the camping cycle with kids to no kids, had tents, pop-ups, travel trailer, etc. Maybe just getting old but I'm not going back to pit toilets, they are just no fun at 2:00AM in the rain when its 40 degrees outside :wink:

Are you really sure everyone in the family is in love with the pit toilets? I know the ladies in my family were not very fond of them, the guys on the other hand did not make it to the pit toilets 90% of the time, we camped in the woods!

Not wanting to be the weight police but check you weights and be safe, I like to give myself 20% head room.
Neither a wise man nor a brave man lies down on the tracks of history to wait for the train of the future to run over him. | -Dwight D. Eisenhower-
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