Contractor Messed up

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mw1739
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Contractor Messed up

Post by mw1739 »

My wife just called me saying the contractor finishing my basement screwed up and ordered Oak cabinets for the bar and bathroom instead of Maple. They're fine taking them back but offerred a $1,000 credit if we keep the Oak. I'm not really sure why we went with Maple in the first place, so I'm wondering would I regret keeping the Oak cabinets and if I keep them is $1,000 an acceptable discount?
Boglegrappler
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by Boglegrappler »

Reflect on whether you really want those Oak Cabinets.

While you're at it, reflect on whether there is a possibility that the contractor/cabinet wholesaler are conspiring to push something on you that they already own. It's not impossible and not unheard of.

I think I'd stick with what I wanted in the first place. We had a contractor measure incorrectly for a kitchen job years ago, and allowed him to correct it by reworking the cabinets. It was just OK, but I always thought I should have demanded that he just order the right cabinets from the manufacturer.
ralph124cf
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by ralph124cf »

1. Ask your wife.

2. Do what she says.

Ralph
Novine
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by Novine »

Do you want the look of Oak cabinets? I would get some photos of what you want versus what they are offering to install. $1000 off isn't going to do you any good if you're unhappy with the look of the final product.
Andyrunner
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by Andyrunner »

ralph124cf wrote:1. Ask your wife.

2. Do what she says.

Ralph
This...if she doesn't like them her fault. Though I have always found they find a way to make it your fault.
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mw1739
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by mw1739 »

ralph124cf wrote:1. Ask your wife.

2. Do what she says.

Ralph
This is usually my instinct as well, but we're already over budget on the remodel and my wife sees it as an extra $1000 in our pocket. I don't mind the look of the Oak, but I'm no expert on cabinets. I don't want to be pushed something cheap that I will regret in 5 years. I also don't think $1000 is enough of a discount. The cabinets are already 90% installed. It's going to be difficult for the cabinet company to re-use them.

I am inclined to ask for what we ordered. Do you think it would be appropriate to ask for a discount for the delay? I would guess this will push our project back 2-3 weeks.
Rupert
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by Rupert »

What's the price difference between oak and maple cabinets? Does the $1000 really make you whole or is the contractor still making a profit pushing oak on you?
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Christine_NM
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by Christine_NM »

I agree with letting your wife decide.

Frankly, oak with a lot of grain is outdated -- very 80's. It's not something I'd want in a new remodel. Knowing nothing about what you are doing, in general I'd say it would seriously detract from the value of the remodel, much more than $1000.

It's not horrible. I have some oak tables from 1986 that I like. But I would not buy them again today. I doubt they are even for sale.
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mw1739
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by mw1739 »

Christine_NM wrote:I agree with letting your wife decide.

Frankly, oak with a lot of grain is outdated -- very 80's. It's not something I'd want in a new remodel. Knowing nothing about what you are doing, in general I'd say it would seriously detract from the value of the remodel, much more than $1000.

It's not horrible. I have some oak tables from 1986 that I like. But I would not buy them again today. I doubt they are even for sale.
For what it's worth this is for a basement bar. We are going for a more rustic feel. But looking around the internet, most people seem to agree with your thoughts that it is outdated.
pshonore
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by pshonore »

Are these solid wood (at least frames, doors and drawer fronts) or is is a finish or laminate? I would doubt there is much price difference between the Maple and Oak. And high quality, solid wood cabinets are NEVER outdated. As you say, it is in a basement. If you like the look, then take the $1K.
island
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by island »

What does your wife think? Must have been a reason maple was chosen in the first place. Same door and drawer profile you originally chose? I'd think oak would be cheaper so is 1K really a discount?
Oak reminds me of every college apt I had in the 80s and those cabs were probably installed in the 70s. I wouldn't take oak for free, but that's just a personal choice. If you like it and it's a real bargain go for it.
jeff1949
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by jeff1949 »

Tell them it's a deal if they up the ante to $1500.

:sharebeer
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Christine_NM
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by Christine_NM »

jeff1949 wrote:Tell them it's a deal if they up the ante to $1500.

:sharebeer
Make it $2000 firm or go with maple. :happy

Edited to add: I wonder why contractors never make a mistake like installing solid cherry cabinets ... :wink:
Last edited by Christine_NM on Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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cheese_breath
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by cheese_breath »

mw1739 wrote:I'm not really sure why we went with Maple in the first place
There must have been a reason. Think about it some more. When you remember then you can decide whether it's worth $1,000 to you or not.
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diasurfer
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by diasurfer »

The idea that perfectly good built-in furnishings can be "out-of-style" and "dated" strikes me as absurd. You can guess how I feel about the fashion industry. I didn't even realize that counter-tops could be "in-style" until we bought our first home. Fortunately, while my wife is quite aware of such things, she doesn't feel like updating our kitchen every few years to impress the handful of visitors to our home with our kitchen-fashion-sense is a good way to spend hard earned cash.

But I digress. I would find out what the price difference is between oak and maple and add that to the $1000, explaining that you had your heart set on maple because everyone knows oak is out of style.
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walkabout
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by walkabout »

My first reaction is that I would insist on the maple. You probably went through some thought and effort and chose the maple. That should be good enough. Personally, I don't really like oak and probably would not choose it in the first place or as a backup choice. Maybe you feel the same way, maybe not.

Next, the contractor did offer you a $1000 refund to accept the oak. I would try to compare the price of the oak and the maple to make sure that you are not getting ripped off before accepting. Try to determine if the quality level is the same (is it the same cabinet, just in a different wood or is it a different cabinet, maybe better maybe not, in different wood).

You will be stuck with these cabinets for a long time and you don't want to end up having a feeling of regret every time you look at them.

Good luck!
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by lululu »

diasurfer wrote:The idea that perfectly good built-in furnishings can be "out-of-style" and "dated" strikes me as absurd. You can guess how I feel about the fashion industry. I didn't even realize that counter-tops could be "in-style" until we bought our first home. Fortunately, while my wife is quite aware of such things, she doesn't feel like updating our kitchen every few years to impress the handful of visitors to our home with our kitchen-fashion-sense is a good way to spend hard earned cash.
+1 I care about if I like something or not, not whether it is fashionable.

I would take a look at them, if you and DW think they look okay then ask yourself will you regret accepting them every time you look at them for years. I would not be influenced by $1000, given what the remodel is probably costing you.
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cheese_breath
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by cheese_breath »

diasurfer wrote:The idea that perfectly good built-in furnishings can be "out-of-style" and "dated" strikes me as absurd. You can guess how I feel about the fashion industry. I didn't even realize that counter-tops could be "in-style" until we bought our first home.
You're my kind of guy. Our house is "dated", but it's what my wife likes so it's fine with me. Problem is some things are wearing out. She likes the colors she has now, but that's not what they're selling anymore. She says she'd rather live with what she has and wait for it to come back into style than buy the stuff they're pushing now. In the meantime the investment money I would have spent keeps earning more. Love my wife.
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by Fallible »

island wrote:What does your wife think? Must have been a reason maple was chosen in the first place. Same door and drawer profile you originally chose? I'd think oak would be cheaper so is 1K really a discount?
...
Agree it would be good to know your wife's reasons.
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Ged
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by Ged »

ralph124cf wrote:1. Ask your wife.

2. Do what she says.

Ralph
Exactly how I would do it.
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FrugalInvestor
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by FrugalInvestor »

In many areas of the country oak cabinets reduce the value of a home and can make it difficult to sell because they make it look dated. Your area may be different and resale may not be of concern to you but thought it should be mentioned.

Edit: Just noticed that is WAS mentioned in a previous post. Sorry for being redundant. :annoyed
Last edited by FrugalInvestor on Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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dm200
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by dm200 »

Ged wrote:
ralph124cf wrote:1. Ask your wife.

2. Do what she says.

Ralph
Exactly how I would do it.
I also agree - BUT with one suggestion. If she wants to take the $1,000 and go with the OAK - make sure that the only difference is Oak vs. Maple and not some cheaper construction of the wood and cabinets.
Big Worm
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by Big Worm »

ralph124cf wrote:1. Ask your wife.

2. Do what she says.

Ralph
+1
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mw1739
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by mw1739 »

Well I got home and looked at the cabinets. They brought over a maple cabinet for us to compare. We're definitely not keeping the oak cabinets. Would it be reasonable to ask for a discount for our delay? These cabinets took about 2-3 weeks to get in. Supposedly they will rush order the Maple ones, but it will still push completion back 1-2 weeks.
island
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by island »

Honest mistake. I wouldn't ask for a price break for 1-2 weeks.
Fallible
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by Fallible »

mw1739 wrote:Well I got home and looked at the cabinets. They brought over a maple cabinet for us to compare. We're definitely not keeping the oak cabinets. Would it be reasonable to ask for a discount for our delay? These cabinets took about 2-3 weeks to get in. Supposedly they will rush order the Maple ones, but it will still push completion back 1-2 weeks.
IMO, you should ask for a discount for the time and inconvenience. When I had to have a new carpet replaced because of flaws not caught until it was installed, I got a nice amount knocked off for the time and inconvenience it cost me.

Also, I agree with dm200 that you should make sure there is no difference in quality, construction, etc., between the maple and oak cabinets.
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sscritic
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by sscritic »

1) I like maple.

2) you can always ask for a discount, just don't get upset when you don't get one. They might hang one of your cabinets upside down. :)
Fallible
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by Fallible »

sscritic wrote:...
2) you can always ask for a discount, just don't get upset when you don't get one. They might hang one of your cabinets upside down. :)
I got upset when the company balked at giving me a discount for wrongly installing flawed carpet. Their self-serving argument was that it would cost me nothing extra, that they would be doing a second installation at their own expense, not mine. And they should! But what about my time and inconvenience to prepare for the installation, the phone calls to the shop when the flaws were noticed, the time waiting for them to come back out, the discussions leading to agreement, finally, that they had messed up, more phone calls to arrange a second installation, discussions on a discount, calls to the state consumer affairs division and googling for information to better argue my case when they first refused a discount (actually, just my mention of the state consumer affairs changed their tune right quick), then the installation, putting all the furniture back again, etc. But even though I got upset, I just stated my case over and over nicely - and persistently. Ironically, of course, I lost more time arguing to be compensated for the lost time. But I got a very nice discount.
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by littlebird »

diasurfer wrote:-
. She says she'd rather live with what she has and wait for it to come back into style than buy the stuff they're pushing now. In the meantime the investment money I would have spent keeps earning more. Love my wife.
I finally lived long enough to see my original kitchen color come back in style. So in case your wife is younger than me (most people are), I'll tell you how long it takes: 50 years. Yes, I still have my original kitchen table and chairs from that era. And they still look darn good and now the color, at least, is fashionable again and I can once again buy dish towels and pots to match. Whew! It was a long wait.
rustymutt
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by rustymutt »

stick with the wood your already using around the house.

don't let the contractor dump his otherwise waste on you.
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by lululu »

littlebird wrote:
diasurfer wrote:-
. She says she'd rather live with what she has and wait for it to come back into style than buy the stuff they're pushing now. In the meantime the investment money I would have spent keeps earning more. Love my wife.
I finally lived long enough to see my original kitchen color come back in style. So in case your wife is younger than me (most people are), I'll tell you how long it takes: 50 years. Yes, I still have my original kitchen table and chairs from that era. And they still look darn good and now the color, at least, is fashionable again and I can once again buy dish towels and pots to match. Whew! It was a long wait.
You can find a lot of stuff on ebay. Not vintage major appliances probably (except refurbished Wedgewood and the like stoves), but dish towels, pots, from 50 years ago for sure. Even some of this stuff is on Etsy, which seems to allow people to see vintage stuff they collect.
island
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by island »

littlebird wrote:
diasurfer wrote:-
. She says she'd rather live with what she has and wait for it to come back into style than buy the stuff they're pushing now. In the meantime the investment money I would have spent keeps earning more. Love my wife.
I finally lived long enough to see my original kitchen color come back in style. So in case your wife is younger than me (most people are), I'll tell you how long it takes: 50 years. Yes, I still have my original kitchen table and chairs from that era. And they still look darn good and now the color, at least, is fashionable again and I can once again buy dish towels and pots to match. Whew! It was a long wait.

Curious, what color? Seems like every color of the rainbow out there.
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by cheese_breath »

island wrote:
littlebird wrote:
diasurfer wrote:-
. She says she'd rather live with what she has and wait for it to come back into style than buy the stuff they're pushing now. In the meantime the investment money I would have spent keeps earning more. Love my wife.
I finally lived long enough to see my original kitchen color come back in style. So in case your wife is younger than me (most people are), I'll tell you how long it takes: 50 years. Yes, I still have my original kitchen table and chairs from that era. And they still look darn good and now the color, at least, is fashionable again and I can once again buy dish towels and pots to match. Whew! It was a long wait.

Curious, what color? Seems like every color of the rainbow out there.
It depends on where you live. Around here they're pushing grays , taupes and the like for flooring. Black and stainless for appliances. Lighter colors are limited.
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by Fallible »

littlebird wrote:
diasurfer wrote:-
. She says she'd rather live with what she has and wait for it to come back into style than buy the stuff they're pushing now. In the meantime the investment money I would have spent keeps earning more. Love my wife.
I finally lived long enough to see my original kitchen color come back in style. So in case your wife is younger than me (most people are), I'll tell you how long it takes: 50 years. Yes, I still have my original kitchen table and chairs from that era. And they still look darn good and now the color, at least, is fashionable again and I can once again buy dish towels and pots to match. Whew! It was a long wait.
You went with the long-term, you didn't care about keeping up with the Joneses, you stayed the course, and you saved money. A true Boglehead! :thumbsup
"Yes, investing is simple. But it is not easy, for it requires discipline, patience, steadfastness, and that most uncommon of all gifts, common sense." ~Jack Bogle
barnaclebob
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by barnaclebob »

littlebird wrote: I finally lived long enough to see my original kitchen color come back in style. So in case your wife is younger than me (most people are), I'll tell you how long it takes: 50 years. Yes, I still have my original kitchen table and chairs from that era. And they still look darn good and now the color, at least, is fashionable again and I can once again buy dish towels and pots to match. Whew! It was a long wait.
Not everything is going to come back. Wood paneling from the 80's is gone for good I would bet. A lot of things from the 80's look terrible come to think of it. I bet popcorn ceilings are gone for good too.
island
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by island »

barnaclebob wrote:
littlebird wrote: I finally lived long enough to see my original kitchen color come back in style. So in case your wife is younger than me (most people are), I'll tell you how long it takes: 50 years. Yes, I still have my original kitchen table and chairs from that era. And they still look darn good and now the color, at least, is fashionable again and I can once again buy dish towels and pots to match. Whew! It was a long wait.
Not everything is going to come back. Wood paneling from the 80's is gone for good I would bet. A lot of things from the 80's look terrible come to think of it. I bet popcorn ceilings are gone for good too.
80's? Wood paneling is from the 70's. My parents had it..actually still have a wall of wood paneling. There basement is a mid century gold mine. Probably could make a small fortune by selling that stuff, although the mid century craze is old news now too.
island
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by island »

cheese_breath wrote:
island wrote:
littlebird wrote:
diasurfer wrote:-
. She says she'd rather live with what she has and wait for it to come back into style than buy the stuff they're pushing now. In the meantime the investment money I would have spent keeps earning more. Love my wife.
I finally lived long enough to see my original kitchen color come back in style. So in case your wife is younger than me (most people are), I'll tell you how long it takes: 50 years. Yes, I still have my original kitchen table and chairs from that era. And they still look darn good and now the color, at least, is fashionable again and I can once again buy dish towels and pots to match. Whew! It was a long wait.

Curious, what color? Seems like every color of the rainbow out there.
It depends on where you live. Around here they're pushing grays , taupes and the like for flooring. Black and stainless for appliances. Lighter colors are limited.
I was wonder what colors little bird was referring to.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by BrandonBogle »

island wrote:Honest mistake. I wouldn't ask for a price break for 1-2 weeks.
Oh that would be great. My cabinets were supposed to be done by end of May and the new target date is 7/15! Plus my family coming up for the 4th of July won't get to see the new cabinets and countertops :(
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by BrandonBogle »

barnaclebob wrote:
littlebird wrote: I finally lived long enough to see my original kitchen color come back in style. So in case your wife is younger than me (most people are), I'll tell you how long it takes: 50 years. Yes, I still have my original kitchen table and chairs from that era. And they still look darn good and now the color, at least, is fashionable again and I can once again buy dish towels and pots to match. Whew! It was a long wait.
Not everything is going to come back. Wood paneling from the 80's is gone for good I would bet. A lot of things from the 80's look terrible come to think of it. I bet popcorn ceilings are gone for good too.
My paneling just came down yesterday! Wow what a different it + new, fresh, NOT "pale parchment" paint makes!
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by BillyG »

No, don't ask for a discount for your time and delay. If you had a time schedule in your contract and they didn't meet it, that's a different story.

Remember, they are spending extra time on this and even though it's not your fault it is real money to them.

Investing extra time and project delays are part and parcel of many renovations, so just suck it up... And do get a firm time commitment from them on when the maple cabinets will get installed. This could push your project back by weeks or even months if they are custom cabinets (but they are not likely custom if they used the wrong wood... and why did they bother to start installing them in the first place?). This situation is kind of strange.

Billy
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by littlebird »

barnaclebob wrote:
littlebird wrote:
I bet popcorn ceilings are gone for good too.
Not from my house they're not. When builders stopped hiring skilled drywall installers and started using "laborers" to install ceilings, the resulting visible tape and nail pops were truly revolting. "Popcorn" ceilings were developed to cover the multitude of sins. They do the job. What's the problem?
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by lululu »

littlebird wrote:
barnaclebob wrote:
littlebird wrote:
I bet popcorn ceilings are gone for good too.
Not from my house they're not. When builders stopped hiring skilled drywall installers and started using "laborers" to install ceilings, the resulting visible tape and nail pops were truly revolting. "Popcorn" ceilings were developed to cover the multitude of sins. They do the job. What's the problem?
They look awful. Every time I look at the ceilings in my late Mom's house (now my house) I say to myself, that awful ceiling is like that because the worker was incompetent.

Once you've lived with real plaster ceilings, these things are as annoying as Swiss cheese ceiling lighting.
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by pshonore »

littlebird wrote:
barnaclebob wrote:
littlebird wrote:
I bet popcorn ceilings are gone for good too.
Not from my house they're not. When builders stopped hiring skilled drywall installers and started using "laborers" to install ceilings, the resulting visible tape and nail pops were truly revolting. "Popcorn" ceilings were developed to cover the multitude of sins. They do the job. What's the problem?
The big problem with Popcorn is sometime down the road (10-20 years), they will need to be re-painted. Thats quite difficult to do unless you spray them which is beyond the skills of most homeowners and will add to the cost of the job. Brushing or rolling can cause the original popcorn layer to separate, fall, and cause a real mess.

Popcorn is generally no longer done in Southern New England. A lot of "trends" are due to local custom. As an example while having an addition framed, I asked the framer if he was putting strapping across the ceiling joists. He kaughed and said no, they only do that in Rhode Island.
littlebird
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by littlebird »

lululu wrote:
littlebird wrote:
barnaclebob wrote:
littlebird wrote:
I bet popcorn ceilings are gone for good too.
Not from my house they're not. When builders stopped hiring skilled drywall installers and started using "laborers" to install ceilings, the resulting visible tape and nail pops were truly revolting. "Popcorn" ceilings were developed to cover the multitude of sins. They do the job. What's the problem?
They look awful. Every time I look at the ceilings in my late Mom's house (now my house) I say to myself, that awful ceiling is like that because the worker was incompetent.

Once you've lived with real plaster ceilings, these things are as annoying as Swiss cheese ceiling lighting.
It's a normal part of being human to disdain our parents' generation's tastes and fads. I grew up on parquet floors and oriental carpets (although very working class). They were therefore "old fashioned" to me. And "french doors" - nightmares. Wall-to-wall carpeting and sliding glass doors were "upgrades" to my generation, the way that stainless steel appliances are to yours (I assume). I get a kick now out of my juniors adoring wood floors and French doors and many other styles we got rid of long ago, but hey, magazines and designers have to live, too, and that's the way of the world.
lululu
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by lululu »

littlebird wrote:
lululu wrote:
littlebird wrote:
barnaclebob wrote:
littlebird wrote:
I bet popcorn ceilings are gone for good too.
Not from my house they're not. When builders stopped hiring skilled drywall installers and started using "laborers" to install ceilings, the resulting visible tape and nail pops were truly revolting. "Popcorn" ceilings were developed to cover the multitude of sins. They do the job. What's the problem?
They look awful. Every time I look at the ceilings in my late Mom's house (now my house) I say to myself, that awful ceiling is like that because the worker was incompetent.

Once you've lived with real plaster ceilings, these things are as annoying as Swiss cheese ceiling lighting.
It's a normal part of being human to disdain our parents' generation's tastes and fads. I grew up on parquet floors and oriental carpets (although very working class). They were therefore "old fashioned" to me. And "french doors" - nightmares. Wall-to-wall carpeting and sliding glass doors were "upgrades" to my generation, the way that stainless steel appliances are to yours (I assume). I get a kick now out of my juniors adoring wood floors and French doors and many other styles we got rid of long ago, but hey, magazines and designers have to live, too, and that's the way of the world.
I loathe wall to wall carpeting and stainless steel appliances. Almost as much as I loathe popcorn ceilings. Not quite as much, as the carpeting and stainless steel is a lot easier to get rid of. I am not a follower of trends.
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Ged
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Re: Contractor Messed up

Post by Ged »

barnaclebob wrote: Not everything is going to come back. Wood paneling from the 80's is gone for good I would bet. A lot of things from the 80's look terrible come to think of it. I bet popcorn ceilings are gone for good too.
Like everything quality counts. Popcorn ceilings and cheap plywood paneling with the grain printed on are awful and will always be awful. However there are some forms of wood paneling using actual wood that are fundamentally fine, and will come in and out of fashion.
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