Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

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goodenoughinvestor
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Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by goodenoughinvestor »

I'm calling on this great Boglehead community for advice. Here's the situation. My elderly mother received a phone call--they claimed they were representing Microsoft and sold her some online service. It required her to allow them "into" her computer as she put it. She can't remember if she actually gave them her password. After she hung up she became suspicious, called Microsoft and discovered it was a scam. Called credit card company to cancel the charge. But now she is understandably worried that her computer has been hacked. Although she has the standard sort of firewall protection that comes with Windows 8 computers, what do we need to do right now to protect her--particularly her finances, since we recently signed her up for online banking with a few financial institutions? All advice appreciated!
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Peter Foley
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by Peter Foley »

The very first thing I would advise her to do is to stay off line for now. If she does any business online (shopping, banking, direct deposit and bill pay) she should contract them by phone and let them know her account information and password may have been compromised.
sadinvestor
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by sadinvestor »

goodenoughinvestor wrote:I'm calling on this great Boglehead community for advice. Here's the situation. My elderly mother received a phone call--they claimed they were representing Microsoft and sold her some online service. It required her to allow them "into" her computer as she put it. She can't remember if she actually gave them her password. After she hung up she became suspicious, called Microsoft and discovered it was a scam. Called credit card company to cancel the charge. But now she is understandably worried that her computer has been hacked. Although she has the standard sort of firewall protection that comes with Windows 8 computers, what do we need to do right now to protect her--particularly her finances, since we recently signed her up for online banking with a few financial institutions? All advice appreciated!
- Disconnect PC from internet
- Sign up for credit monitoring
- Lock up ssn
- Call banks/investment firm to disable any transaction.
- Worry about credit card last
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cfs
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by cfs »

Wow

- Immediately disconnect from internet
- remove all history from browsers
- run a deep scan
- start working on changing ALL the passwords (possibly from your laptop)

Good luck
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goodenoughinvestor
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by goodenoughinvestor »

I told her to unplug the computer. Then I accessed her financial accounts from my computer and changed all passwords. Did same for her email accounts. She doesn't do online shopping--nothing online connected to her credit cards. So, the next step is, I'd like to have a security specialist come and check out the computer, tell us what to do. From what I've read, once scammers get remote access to your computer you can't always detect it. It's a new computer and doesn't have much on it, so I'm thinking maybe there is a way to wipe the hard drive--erase everything and start over? Can anyone recommend a reliable resource? She is in NY metropolitan area. Thank you!
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LadyGeek
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by LadyGeek »

You are her best resource. The easiest way to do this is to drop by your Mom's place and get the computer. Tell her you'll be borrowing it for a few days to fix it up. :wink:

She should have a copy of the original Win 8 DVD. If not, it's usually installed on the hard drive and you have to follow the manufacturer's instructions to create one. The critical part is to have the OS license key to authorize the install. You'll need to find it - look in the documentation that came with the computer.

When you get it back home, boot from the install DVD. One of the install options should ask you if the hard drive should be formatted (yes). Install Win 8 from scratch and you're good to go.

Google is your friend for installing Win 8.
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Gattamelata
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by Gattamelata »

I second LadyGeek's advice. You can try to find any root kits they may have installed (that's the "you can't always detect it" part you mentioned below), but you'll never know if you found them all. The only certainty is to format the drive and reinstall the OS.

Be sure to find out if your mom has files or data on the hard drive that you'll need to back up before you do that, of course.

Another thing to consider: if your mom has a physical firewall/router that sits between her PC and the internet, or if her modem is also a firewall/router, then it might be worth resetting it to factory defaults. If this device was provided by her internet service provider, then you might talk to them before resetting it, because it might not work with factory settings.

This second angle is less likely, but if my job were to compromise PCs, I wouldn't spend my time trying to take machines over while I was on the phone, I'd try to get the keys to the entire home network (by subverting the firewall) so I could take over machines at my leisure. Just a thought.

Also, good for your mom for being suspicious and following up with a phone call to Microsoft. My dad, the man who taught me that there's no free lunch and that you get what you pay for, wanted to believe in the most ridiculous internet scams near the end of his life. I think vigilance, suspicion, and double-checking should be applauded.
sadinvestor
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by sadinvestor »

LadyGeek wrote:You are her best resource. The easiest way to do this is to drop by your Mom's place and get the computer. Tell her you'll be borrowing it for a few days to fix it up. :wink:

She should have a copy of the original Win 8 DVD. If not, it's usually installed on the hard drive and you have to follow the manufacturer's instructions to create one. The critical part is to have the OS license key to authorize the install. You'll need to find it - look in the documentation that came with the computer.

When you get it back home, boot from the install DVD. One of the install options should ask you if the hard drive should be formatted (yes). Install Win 8 from scratch and you're good to go.

Google is your friend for installing Win 8.
Why windows. How about linux. This problem won't have happened. Linux systems are easier than ever now.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by ResearchMed »

Tell your mother that she was very smart to be concerned and ask you for help.

Emphasize this, while also gently reminding her *never* to respond to cold calls, allow access, share passwords, etc.

RM
DualIncomeNoDebt
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by DualIncomeNoDebt »

No question, you need to zero out that hard drive and start with a clean install. By zeroing out, I mean ensuring all info is totally wiped, the hard drive is totally reformatted and repartitioned. Only then do you do a clean WIN 8 install. Then install your chipset and driver software.

Don't just "delete" Windows 8. Don't just do a fresh install. Not good enough. You need to wipe that drive. Who knows what was done (if anything), but if they had remote access to the machine, they could have very quickly and easily installed boot sector viruses, rootkits, hidden drive partitions with trojans/backdoors using stealth, code integration, a combination of the two. Worse, if you do have a RAT installed, they'll install their own packet sniffer and create future backdoors, capturing literally everything coming into and out of that computer.

Also, this is why a robust password manager is a good idea (for anyone who is reading). You don't want usernames and passwords "in the clear" on your machine (i.e. sitting in a Word document, address book, notepad file, all bad choices). You want them strongly cyphered until you access them.
paulsiu
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by paulsiu »

I would:

1. Disconnect her computer from the internet and home network.
2. Run some antivirus and malwarebytes to look for root kits.
3. Copy files to an blank external drive (which you will erase later just in case).
4. Zero out computer, and reinstall. Copy files back.
5. Go into each of her account and change the password and make sure that the email address for the account has not changed. Also check if there's been any unauthorized login or activity.
6. Freeze her credit card bureau so they can't apply for credit card in her name
7. You should also check her router to see if they change anything on it.

Paul
lululu
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by lululu »

LadyGeek wrote: She should have a copy of the original Win 8 DVD. If not, it's usually installed on the hard drive and you have to follow the manufacturer's instructions to create one. The critical part is to have the OS license key to authorize the install. You'll need to find it - look in the documentation that came with the computer.
sadinvestor wrote:Why windows. How about linux. This problem won't have happened. Linux systems are easier than ever now.
The license key may also be on a sticker on a CD or pasted to the bottom of the system box or somesuch. I think mine is on the bottom of my laptop.

Linux: This is his elderly Mom we're talking about. No need for her to learn a totally different OS.

As noted above, be sure to save any files she wants before wiping the drive.

I had heard about this scam before they called me. Also, it never crossed my mind to consider that Microsoft gave a %$$#$# about customers. So I enjoyed lying and telling the crook that I didn't have a computer. That stopped him cold :D
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by Aptenodytes »

sadinvestor wrote: Why windows. How about linux. This problem won't have happened. Linux systems are easier than ever now.
Er, I don't see how Linux helps against this threat.
Calm Man
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by Calm Man »

I was at my mother's apartment about a month ago and she got the same call but put me on to talk to them. After a long time I asked how they got our number and I frankly don't remember what they said. She does not have a computer. But OP, in addition to everything that you are doing that is right (I doubt your mother has any info on the computer hard drive) I would put this in your mental file as possibly an early sign of cognitive dysfunction. I have been reading a lot about this type of things lately and this is quite poor judgement to have done what she did. And hopefully I am premature in this thought and it was just a "silly" error.
Last edited by Calm Man on Mon May 19, 2014 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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theduke
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by theduke »

I've been called three times by these people with foreign accents. I have stringed them along and pretended to be on my computer when I was actually sitting on my swing on the back porch. They were trying to gain access to my computer, but for what intent I don't know. They claimed my computer had a virus and they would fix it for $150 or $250 depending on how bad it was..
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InvestorNewb
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by InvestorNewb »

I would install and run SUPERAntiSpyware: http://www.superantispyware.com/

It's a free tool, and it once got rid of a trojan virus on my PC that several other software programs could not.
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Aptenodytes
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by Aptenodytes »

InvestorNewb wrote:I would install and run SUPERAntiSpyware: http://www.superantispyware.com/

It's a free tool, and it once got rid of a trojan virus on my PC that several other software programs could not.
Far too risky given the nature of this particular attack.
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by Ged »

Aptenodytes wrote:
sadinvestor wrote: Why windows. How about linux. This problem won't have happened. Linux systems are easier than ever now.
Er, I don't see how Linux helps against this threat.
Well to start with a Linux user would hopefully recognize that a caller from Microsoft offering technical support would be irrelevant.
lululu
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by lululu »

Calm Man wrote:I was at my mother's apartment about a month ago and she got the same call but put me on to talk to them. After a long time I asked how they got our number and I frankly don't remember what I said. She does not have a computer. But OP, in addition to everything that you are doing that is right (I doubt your mother has any info on the computer hard drive) I would put this in your mental file as possibly an early sign of cognitive dysfunction. I have been reading a lot about this type of things lately and this is quite poor judgement to have done what she did. And hopefully I am premature in this thought and it was just a "silly" error.
I wonder if they've bought a list of older people.

I would not assume this is cognitive dysfunction. My Mom when she was elderly was sharp as a tack in terms of her intellectual ability, but not very literate in terms of computers and too trusting in general.
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goodenoughinvestor
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by goodenoughinvestor »

Thanks for all the excellent advice. In terms of the cognitive issue--it is something I will be vigilant about. That said, I think older folks are particularly vulnerable to computer scams because the technology is unfamiliar territory, which adds to their uncertainty. So, when someone calls up sounding authoritative and official...

These scam artists can be quite convincing. A close, non-elderly, friend of mine who has a doctorate in statistics, recently admitted almost falling for it when someone called up, claiming to be from the IRS and insisting that back taxes were owed and wanting to "confirm" address, social security number, etc.
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by investor1 »

Re-install Windows, change passwords, and monitor her credit.

It is very likely they copied over certain information such as browsing history and My Documents folders etc. It might be a good idea to change the answers to security questions for various accounts too.
indexmeasap
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by indexmeasap »

Have you considered chromebox for your mom? You could just adopt the win 8 machine and fix it later. I've read other post here where people use chromebox as their safe PC for secure online browsing. I am not sure how user friendly this device is for an elderly person like your mom?

My mom called a "help desk" because her computer was slow a few months back. The person wanted to remote desktop in and charge her $150. Fortunately, my mother doesn't like to spend money. She is still on XP, I finally ordered her a chromebox.

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Calm Man
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by Calm Man »

lululu wrote:
Calm Man wrote:I was at my mother's apartment about a month ago and she got the same call but put me on to talk to them. After a long time I asked how they got our number and I frankly don't remember what I said. She does not have a computer. But OP, in addition to everything that you are doing that is right (I doubt your mother has any info on the computer hard drive) I would put this in your mental file as possibly an early sign of cognitive dysfunction. I have been reading a lot about this type of things lately and this is quite poor judgement to have done what she did. And hopefully I am premature in this thought and it was just a "silly" error.
I wonder if they've bought a list of older people.

I would not assume this is cognitive dysfunction. My Mom when she was elderly was sharp as a tack in terms of her intellectual ability, but not very literate in terms of computers and too trusting in general.
If I gave that impression, it was too strong. I just raised it as a single incident to "file" and if it is isolated can be forgotten. But if one of several, just for OP to be vigilant.
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by Optimistic »

indexmeasap wrote:Have you considered chromebox for your mom? You could just adopt the win 8 machine and fix it later. I've read other post here where people use chromebox as their safe PC for secure online browsing. I am not sure how user friendly this device is for an elderly person like your mom?

My mom called a "help desk" because her computer was slow a few months back. The person wanted to remote desktop in and charge her $150. Fortunately, my mother doesn't like to spend money. She is still on XP, I finally ordered her a chromebox.

reissue credit cards
freeze credit
Good idea. My grandmother (late 80s) got this one for $199 a couple of months ago. She loves it. It's very lightweight and easy for her to use. The $199 you'd spend on the chromebook would be less than what a security specialist would likely charge.
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zaplunken
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by zaplunken »

Best advice was to wipe the hard drive clean then reinstall the OS and load the software for whatever devices she has or software she uses.

Would it be unsafe to put any file back on the pc (spreadsheets, word doc, pictures et al) if they were from the c drive? If these files were backed up off line then as long as the flash drive or b/u drive (read/write devices only) were never connected to the pc since this happened then I think they are safe. But wouldn't files on the c drive or if the device read/write device was connected to the pc since this happened be potentially corrupted and you risk what might be in those files?
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LadyGeek
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by LadyGeek »

If the router is reset to "factory default", the password is also reset. Google the router model and "password" - you'll have access in under 30 seconds (that's what it took me, including the search time).

Always change your router's password after it's reset to factory settings.

As for those promoting Linux, let's keep the OP's Mom with an OS that's supported everywhere (MS Windows). We need easy here. Better is a matter of debate, which is not the intent of this thread.
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Gattamelata
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by Gattamelata »

goodenoughinvestor wrote:A close, non-elderly, friend of mine who has a doctorate in statistics, recently admitted almost falling for it when someone called up, claiming to be from the IRS and insisting that back taxes were owed and wanting to "confirm" address, social security number, etc.
This raises a good point. The party that initiates contact is the one that is required to verify its identity. For example, if I get a call from somebody (or something, these days) purporting to be my credit card company and suggesting that there's fraud on the account, I ask them which card, tell them it's not a good time and I'll call them back in five minutes. Then I call the number on the back of the card. Otherwise they're going to ask to verify that I'm the account holder, and I have no way of knowing if they're legit or not.

indexmeasap wrote:Have you considered chromebox for your mom? You could just adopt the win 8 machine and fix it later. I've read other post here where people use chromebox as their safe PC for secure online browsing. I am not sure how user friendly this device is for an elderly person like your mom?
I think a Chromebook is an idea worth exploring, depending on mom's usage of the windows machine. If her activity is entirely web-based, then it seems like a great alternative to me. In terms of the UI, it's very close to the Windows experience. I imagine that If the user can't tell the difference between versions of Windows (just for instance), I wouldn't expect that Chrome OS would be noticeably different to that user.
LadyGeek wrote:If the router is reset to "factory default", the password is also reset. Google the router model and "password" - you'll have access in under 30 seconds (that's what it took me, including the search time).

Always change your router's password after it's reset to factory settings.
I would type "+1," except that might convey the idea that only two people think this is true, when in fact it's indisputably true. Change the default password always, everywhere.
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by BolderBoy »

goodenoughinvestor wrote:I'm calling on this great Boglehead community for advice. Here's the situation. My elderly mother received a phone call--they claimed they were representing Microsoft and sold her some online service. It required her to allow them "into" her computer as she put it.
I got a call from them the other day, too. I played dumb and let them into my computer. The instant they gained access, my computer quietly uploaded to their computer a nice worm program I'd written just for the purpose. Within seconds, the caller started complaining that his computer was behaving oddly. Then I could hear in the background that the other folks in his room were having troubles with their computers, too. Then he said that his network had hung and he'd need to reboot. We parted ways with me knowing I'd destroyed their entire platform.

(it is a story I made up, but it sounds empowering, doesn't it :)

A fresh re-install of the OS will make all things good again.
Atilla
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by Atilla »

This is why you never answer the phone if you don't recognize the number. So many problems can be avoided. :oops:
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Re: Help! Mom fell for scam--computer hacked?

Post by likegarden »

I agree with Atila, we also do not answer phone calls from phone numbers we do not recognize, so we never know about all these scams. One IRS scammer got desperate and explained his back taxes scam on the answering machine, we never answered.
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