What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnace?
What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnace?
We received an estimate from a contractor to install a new air conditioner unit and furnace.
He talked up Amanas as if they were clearly the best. He was convincing. It was the only brand he installs. I went online and read reviews for the Amana air conditioners and they were poor.
Which is the most reliable 3 ton air conditioner and furnace?
We have a 1,300 square foot home.
Any other advice would be appreciated. We received a quote of $6,100 including new Freon lines, filter tray, and a thermostat.
He talked up Amanas as if they were clearly the best. He was convincing. It was the only brand he installs. I went online and read reviews for the Amana air conditioners and they were poor.
Which is the most reliable 3 ton air conditioner and furnace?
We have a 1,300 square foot home.
Any other advice would be appreciated. We received a quote of $6,100 including new Freon lines, filter tray, and a thermostat.
- cheese_breath
- Posts: 11786
- Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:08 pm
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
Carrier and Bryant (made by Carrier) are good. Lennox is good.
Stay away from Goodman (made by Amana).
Stay away from Goodman (made by Amana).
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.
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- Location: New York
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
Furnace - Honeywell Evolution or Rheem
Air Conditioner - Bryant
Your installer talks up Amana quite possibly because for every unit he installs he gets a rebate from the manufacturer. To move volume, manufacturers provide an extra incentive.
Air Conditioner - Bryant
Your installer talks up Amana quite possibly because for every unit he installs he gets a rebate from the manufacturer. To move volume, manufacturers provide an extra incentive.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
Goodman I believe owns Amana. Amana's warranty is much better than Goodman's. I have had an Amana split system (19 SEER & 80 AFUE))for the past six years and have no issues with it. Most manufacturers and their dealers are offering huge discounts during May.
Tom D.
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
We installed Bryant A/C and gas furnace a few years ago. Works great and very high efficiency.
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
Is it me or does that seem like a lot of cooling capacity for a really small home?! Did the contractor perform a manual J computation (measured all rooms, doors and windows etc.) to calculate the cooling/heating load for the home? If he just performed a "rule of thumb" calculation based on total home SF then he is not a good HVAC contractor.jwblue wrote:We received an estimate from a contractor to install a new air conditioner unit and furnace.
He talked up Amanas as if they were clearly the best. He was convincing. It was the only brand he installs. I went online and read reviews for the Amana air conditioners and they were poor.
Which is the most reliable 3 ton air conditioner and furnace?
We have a 1,300 square foot home.
Any other advice would be appreciated. We received a quote of $6,100 including new Freon lines, filter tray, and a thermostat.
Disclaimer: nothing written here should be taken as legal advice, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
I also have a Bryant system that has provided good service. Bryant is a Carrier brand; if you examine the components many are labelled Carrier.Garco wrote:We installed Bryant A/C and gas furnace a few years ago. Works great and very high efficiency.
When I was working as an engineer I had experience with some large scale industrial Carrier refrigeration equipment and the engineering support they offered. My impression is that it is a world-class company.
There may be others that are great too. However Carrier is a name that I have had personal experience with.
Be that as it may, the installer and dealer you have is also very important. Do your due diligence.
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
Yup. I have gotten four other opinions on the internet and all say 2.5 ton. Another reason I should not use this contractor.smackboy1 wrote: Is it me or does that seem like a lot of cooling capacity for a really small home?! Did the contractor perform a manual J computation (measured all rooms, doors and windows etc.) to calculate the cooling/heating load for the home? If he just performed a "rule of thumb" calculation based on total home SF then he is not a good HVAC contractor.
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
Over capacity on this type of AC system is bad news. Not only does it cost you money up front but it reduces efficiency and likely leads to increased maintenance.jwblue wrote:Yup. I have gotten four other opinions on the internet and all say 2.5 ton. Another reason I should not use this contractor.smackboy1 wrote: Is it me or does that seem like a lot of cooling capacity for a really small home?! Did the contractor perform a manual J computation (measured all rooms, doors and windows etc.) to calculate the cooling/heating load for the home? If he just performed a "rule of thumb" calculation based on total home SF then he is not a good HVAC contractor.
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
I have read good things about Trane.
Has anyone hear had experience with them?
Has anyone hear had experience with them?
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
I have a neighbor who works for Carrier and also has a side line business of installing and repairing air conditioners and furnace. He can get Carrier hardware at close to cost but usually recommends and installs Goodman.
Bob
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
1. Seems like too much cooling for that size home, but there is NO WAY to know over the internet. You MUST do (or have done) a manual J calc. If you are reasonably good at these types of things, you can try to do your own here:
http://www.loadcalc.net/
The caveat is garbage in/garbage out. You need a working knowledge of how your house is constructed to properly complete it.
The problem with an oversized unit is that it will constantly cycle and while it may cool, it will not run long enough to properly remove all the humidity. So while the temp may be correct, the humidity would be high, making the space feel clammy and warmer than it really is.
2. More important than which brand you select is to get a high quality install. An HVAC system is a collection of parts, and the install is different in each house - different pressures in the ducts, different length linesets result in different charges for the freon. If your installer cuts corners, does not size the duct properly, pinches the duct, charges the system improperly, does not use the returns correctly, etc. etc. it will be much worse than if you use the 4th best brand instead of the best brand.
That said, some parts just have better manufacturing than others. If I were looking for a new system, I would go with American Standard, which is manufactured by Trane. I've had experience with several of them, all going on 18-20 years with no to minimal problems.
http://www.loadcalc.net/
The caveat is garbage in/garbage out. You need a working knowledge of how your house is constructed to properly complete it.
The problem with an oversized unit is that it will constantly cycle and while it may cool, it will not run long enough to properly remove all the humidity. So while the temp may be correct, the humidity would be high, making the space feel clammy and warmer than it really is.
2. More important than which brand you select is to get a high quality install. An HVAC system is a collection of parts, and the install is different in each house - different pressures in the ducts, different length linesets result in different charges for the freon. If your installer cuts corners, does not size the duct properly, pinches the duct, charges the system improperly, does not use the returns correctly, etc. etc. it will be much worse than if you use the 4th best brand instead of the best brand.
That said, some parts just have better manufacturing than others. If I were looking for a new system, I would go with American Standard, which is manufactured by Trane. I've had experience with several of them, all going on 18-20 years with no to minimal problems.
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
This is because with Carrier he has to report each system he installs. Goodman will sell parts to anyone; does not require any credentials, etc. Thus it is easier for him to install Goodman - his employer does not find out.CABob wrote:I have a neighbor who works for Carrier and also has a side line business of installing and repairing air conditioners and furnace. He can get Carrier hardware at close to cost but usually recommends and installs Goodman.
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Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
Yes, that seems extremely high for that sized house even in Southern California. Smackboy1 is 100% correct, ask for a manual J sizing calculation. Most consumers are their own worst enemy when it comes to A/C system sizes. First they want their houses to be walk in coolers on the hottest days.smackboy1 wrote:Is it me or does that seem like a lot of cooling capacity for a really small home?! Did the contractor perform a manual J computation (measured all rooms, doors and windows etc.) to calculate the cooling/heating load for the home? If he just performed a "rule of thumb" calculation based on total home SF then he is not a good HVAC contractor.jwblue wrote:We received an estimate from a contractor to install a new air conditioner unit and furnace.
He talked up Amanas as if they were clearly the best. He was convincing. It was the only brand he installs. I went online and read reviews for the Amana air conditioners and they were poor.
Which is the most reliable 3 ton air conditioner and furnace?
We have a 1,300 square foot home.
Any other advice would be appreciated. We received a quote of $6,100 including new Freon lines, filter tray, and a thermostat.
A properly sized system should actually have a few of the hottest days where the system can't keep up (say temp rises to 75 indoors when it is 100 outdoors). This allows the system to run long enough at lower outside temperatures to remove humidity. This causes contractors to naturally oversize systems to prevent call backs for failure to cool. So a half a ton extra because of no sizing and another half ton to prevent callbacks and you have a seriously oversized system.
It really is a big mistake to focus on A/C brand. They are all made with essentially similar parts. In fact. the most important component is the compressor. There are only two compressor brands (Bristol and Copeland) used in the vast majority of US condensers. From time to time all the major US manufactures including recently Carrier have had significant reliability problems.
The installation is the single most critical issue. Do not necessarily look for the lowest quote. Get more than one quote. Disregard any contractor who does not do a proper sizing calculation. Look for certified technicians. Talk to family, friends, colleagues, and acquaintances. Ask for their experiences. These are far more valuable, can involve people with 5. 10, 20 years of experience. A reference of a newly installed system provided by the contractor is far less value.
- Whiggish Boffin
- Posts: 277
- Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:20 pm
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
My apartment-size Carrier furnace needed the inducer motor replaced every two years -- a $350 service call. Seemed like a planned-obsolescence annuity for the service guys. I replaced the system with a Trane 2-stage system that's run 8 years with one problem (dead igniter).
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
First, while over sizing an AC unit is a bad idea, the difference between a 2-1/2 ton and a 3 ton unit is minimal. It's certainly not a case of gross oversizing like going to a 5 ton unit. It's not like they make a 2-3/4 ton unit to fill the gap.
Second, higher efficiency units have capabilities such as two stage compressors and variable speed evaporator fans that might have benefits. For instance, a 3 ton unit that has a two stage compressor might outperform a 2-1/2 ton single stage compressor since the three ton unit can operate at the lower compressor rating the majority of the time. So it's hard to say what unit is better for a certain application without knowing the details.
One feature that might be worth considering is microchannel coils. These are aluminum coils that are not vulnerable to a type of corrosion that causes failure of copper coils (which is more common in humid areas like the southeast), but also have the advantage of using aluminum rather than copper (costs less) and can also use less refrigerant than a copper coil.
As for brands, I'd go with Carrier or maybe Lennox. As for Trane, they used to be very good. But a certain venture capital group split the company up to extract 'shareholder value' and in the process turned Trane from a US company to an Irish company (Ingersoll Rand) and quality took a turn for the worse on commercial units. I can't recommend them.
I agree with Spirit Rider that workmanship is the single most important issue. But it can be hard for someone not familiar with HVAC work to assess this.
Second, higher efficiency units have capabilities such as two stage compressors and variable speed evaporator fans that might have benefits. For instance, a 3 ton unit that has a two stage compressor might outperform a 2-1/2 ton single stage compressor since the three ton unit can operate at the lower compressor rating the majority of the time. So it's hard to say what unit is better for a certain application without knowing the details.
One feature that might be worth considering is microchannel coils. These are aluminum coils that are not vulnerable to a type of corrosion that causes failure of copper coils (which is more common in humid areas like the southeast), but also have the advantage of using aluminum rather than copper (costs less) and can also use less refrigerant than a copper coil.
As for brands, I'd go with Carrier or maybe Lennox. As for Trane, they used to be very good. But a certain venture capital group split the company up to extract 'shareholder value' and in the process turned Trane from a US company to an Irish company (Ingersoll Rand) and quality took a turn for the worse on commercial units. I can't recommend them.
I agree with Spirit Rider that workmanship is the single most important issue. But it can be hard for someone not familiar with HVAC work to assess this.
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Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
I worked in HVAC one summer in college. It was years ago (mid-80s) and I worked with an old-school A/C guy (a WWII vet who told the BEST stories-but that's another post). His advice about brand: There's not much difference in the brands that are household names. He said sizing and the quality of the install was more important than anything (which was, of course, self-serving).
Having said that, I've had two new units installed in the past 15 years (different houses). The three-ton Lennox unit has had exactly one service call (a failed capacitor) at the 5-6 year mark. The five-ton Goodman I had installed seven years ago was worked on four times the first year. Since then, we've had 10+ additional service calls, had two compressors replaced, and the factory rep came out (he just replaced everything). I've since been told that Goodman is not a bad brand, it's just that anyone can sell and install them, so they might attract installers who don't have a strong brand affiliation. Either way, Spouse tells me that she might be able to overlook it if I were to bring home another woman, but if I buy another Goodman A/C unit, the marriage is over!
Having said that, I've had two new units installed in the past 15 years (different houses). The three-ton Lennox unit has had exactly one service call (a failed capacitor) at the 5-6 year mark. The five-ton Goodman I had installed seven years ago was worked on four times the first year. Since then, we've had 10+ additional service calls, had two compressors replaced, and the factory rep came out (he just replaced everything). I've since been told that Goodman is not a bad brand, it's just that anyone can sell and install them, so they might attract installers who don't have a strong brand affiliation. Either way, Spouse tells me that she might be able to overlook it if I were to bring home another woman, but if I buy another Goodman A/C unit, the marriage is over!
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- Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:09 pm
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
We bought a 3 ton Rheem AC and Rheem furnace in April 2008.
We faced the decision to go with R22 or the new Puron. We chose the R-22 because it is a more efficient refrigerant than Puron and does not have the contamination risks. Units designed for R22 can still be manufactured, but can no longer be factory pre-filled with the R22. They come from the factory filled with an inert gas. The R22 must be added after installation.
We have been totally satisfied with the choice of Rheem R22 3-ton unit. The installer was expert and did an excellent job.
We faced the decision to go with R22 or the new Puron. We chose the R-22 because it is a more efficient refrigerant than Puron and does not have the contamination risks. Units designed for R22 can still be manufactured, but can no longer be factory pre-filled with the R22. They come from the factory filled with an inert gas. The R22 must be added after installation.
We have been totally satisfied with the choice of Rheem R22 3-ton unit. The installer was expert and did an excellent job.
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
Here's a good forum to check out
http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/forumdisplay.p ... ntial-HVAC
As for brands, no manufacturer is 100% reliable. Go with a good installer because it will be an ongoing relationship for maintenance and warranty repairs.
http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/forumdisplay.p ... ntial-HVAC
As for brands, no manufacturer is 100% reliable. Go with a good installer because it will be an ongoing relationship for maintenance and warranty repairs.
Disclaimer: nothing written here should be taken as legal advice, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
- ClevrChico
- Posts: 3259
- Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:24 pm
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
I'm five months into owning a new Amana (Goodman) system. Quality of installation matters more than that brand. I went with a large installer in the metro area that had been in business 50 years. I could have paid less, but the level and quality of service was well worth it.
It took twenty three hours for skilled techs to install, and we're very happy with it. I felt it was a good balance between features and simplicity. The Goodman heat exchangers are stainless steel and are probably the best in the industry.
My neighbor went with a top tier brand and likely paid double what I did. He said it's completely silent and reads the outside temperature to make decisions. That's cool, but I think mine will be more reliable.
It took twenty three hours for skilled techs to install, and we're very happy with it. I felt it was a good balance between features and simplicity. The Goodman heat exchangers are stainless steel and are probably the best in the industry.
My neighbor went with a top tier brand and likely paid double what I did. He said it's completely silent and reads the outside temperature to make decisions. That's cool, but I think mine will be more reliable.
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
I just had this done yesterday. My home is around 2,000 square feet. I went with Lennox. I received three different prices starting at $5,500 to $7,700. I went with the higher. It is the top of the line Lennox makes. I also received good rebates from Con Ed and Lennox. The job took a day and a half. The lower prices also used Lennox but they were the different model lines. I went with the Signature Series which is the highest they make. The cheapest was the Merit Series, then came the Elite and the top of the line is the Signature.jwblue wrote:We received an estimate from a contractor to install a new air conditioner unit and furnace.
He talked up Amanas as if they were clearly the best. He was convincing. It was the only brand he installs. I went online and read reviews for the Amana air conditioners and they were poor.
Which is the most reliable 3 ton air conditioner and furnace?
We have a 1,300 square foot home.
Any other advice would be appreciated. We received a quote of $6,100 including new Freon lines, filter tray, and a thermostat.
Choose Simplicity ~ Stay the Course!! ~ Press on Regardless!!!
- cheese_breath
- Posts: 11786
- Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:08 pm
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
Second on the high efficiency multi-stage units. An A/C or furnace running longer at the lower stage provides more even heating or cooling at less cost than single stage units cycling on and off more frequently. My Carrier units usually operate at the lowest stages. But every so often I might notice the A/C bumping up to a higher stage on an exceptionally hot stage, or the furnace bumping up on an exceptionally cold day.Dag wrote: ... higher efficiency units have capabilities such as two stage compressors and variable speed evaporator fans that might have benefits. For instance, a 3 ton unit that has a two stage compressor might outperform a 2-1/2 ton single stage compressor since the three ton unit can operate at the lower compressor rating the majority of the time.
ps: Be sure to include a programmable thermostat with your new units.
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.
- HardKnocker
- Posts: 2063
- Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:55 am
- Location: New Jersey USA
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
They are all basically the same really if they have comparable features.
“Gold gets dug out of the ground, then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility.”--Warren Buffett
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
I replaces two Goodman units that were failing twice a year since I moved to the house six years ago with Rheem Classic.
I did some research and got few estimates and decided on Rheem Classic, They are doing well for the time being but no long term experience yet.
They are gas furnace seer 13 AC units, a 3 ton and a 2 ton units.
If you are not in a big hurry, ask friends and coworkers and find a good installer. Big companies charge a lot more than individuals.
You can also check Consumer Report, when I was searching for AC units last year this time they had a couple of articles about AC with reviews and suggestions.
I did some research and got few estimates and decided on Rheem Classic, They are doing well for the time being but no long term experience yet.
They are gas furnace seer 13 AC units, a 3 ton and a 2 ton units.
If you are not in a big hurry, ask friends and coworkers and find a good installer. Big companies charge a lot more than individuals.
You can also check Consumer Report, when I was searching for AC units last year this time they had a couple of articles about AC with reviews and suggestions.
Last edited by parsi1 on Fri May 16, 2014 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Be proactive if you can
In many cases being proactive rather than reactive is not possible. But if your HVAC system is getting older you might think about investigating replacing it before it actually fails. Many manufacturers and local dealers offer discounted prices for AC units around this time of year and I suspect similar offers for heating units in the fall. Ten years ago the unit in the home I had purchased ten years prior started acting up. Recognizing the potential problems ahead of time allowed me to shop for good pricing and quality installation ahead of time without being under the pressure to immediately replace a failed unit.
Tom D.
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Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
Best Brands / Names ($ not a factor): Carrier, York,Trane.
V Good Brand that doesn't have the name premium: Rheem
Stay Away From: Goodman
Most important factor: Quality workmanship & installation
Absolutely required: On-site Man J calculation
I had a complete Rheem system installed in 2007 and have had 0 issues in the 7 years - just the standard bi-annual cleanings/inspections to maintain the lifetime warranty.
Goodman has a bad rep since they are the absolute cheapest equipment ($), are sold directly to the customer on the Internet (which makes a lot of HVAC pros mad), and are normally installed by DIY hacks for flipping homes or new construction (few people even consider HVAC brand installed when buying a home - normally just worried about age, etc.). I'm a huge DIYer, but HVAC is a specialty that you really need someone in that trade to come in to do - especially on the AC side.
V Good Brand that doesn't have the name premium: Rheem
Stay Away From: Goodman
Most important factor: Quality workmanship & installation
Absolutely required: On-site Man J calculation
I had a complete Rheem system installed in 2007 and have had 0 issues in the 7 years - just the standard bi-annual cleanings/inspections to maintain the lifetime warranty.
Goodman has a bad rep since they are the absolute cheapest equipment ($), are sold directly to the customer on the Internet (which makes a lot of HVAC pros mad), and are normally installed by DIY hacks for flipping homes or new construction (few people even consider HVAC brand installed when buying a home - normally just worried about age, etc.). I'm a huge DIYer, but HVAC is a specialty that you really need someone in that trade to come in to do - especially on the AC side.
- TheTimeLord
- Posts: 12130
- Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:05 pm
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
I have had Carrier equipment for the past 15 years and been pleased.
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. |
Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
I've had a Goodman A/C and furnace for 6 years. I have had no problems with the unit itself. I did have problems with some shortcuts that the installer took. After I spent $300 to fix those, I have had no problems.
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
I have an air conditioner unit that uses R-22 freon. The unit had a leak and most of the freon leaked out. I had it recharged. It took 8 pounds of R-22 at $60.00 per pound. My total bill was a little over $600. including tax and labor. The service man told me that R-22 is being phased out, so it probably will go even higher. It is getting harder to get units that use R-22 and when you do they are expensive. They work fine. The problem is they will be very expensive to maintain going forward.robertalpert wrote:We bought a 3 ton Rheem AC and Rheem furnace in April 2008.
We faced the decision to go with R22 or the new Puron. We chose the R-22 because it is a more efficient refrigerant than Puron and does not have the contamination risks. Units designed for R22 can still be manufactured, but can no longer be factory pre-filled with the R22. They come from the factory filled with an inert gas. The R22 must be added after installation.
We have been totally satisfied with the choice of Rheem R22 3-ton unit. The installer was expert and did an excellent job.
Slow and steady wins the race.
- HardKnocker
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- Location: New Jersey USA
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
There is nothing wrong with Goodman. They are fine units. You won't find many installers using them though as they have no dealer network like a Carrier or Lennox. They are often sold by one-man-show installers or installed by DIYers.
There is lots of backtalk and putdowns by the various dealers. The Rheem guy will tell you Carrier is lousy and vice-versa. It's all BS.
All the major brands are basically one as good as another.
Good, reputable installers will usually only offer large brand names anyway like Carrier, Lennox, Trane. Rheem, etc.
There is lots of backtalk and putdowns by the various dealers. The Rheem guy will tell you Carrier is lousy and vice-versa. It's all BS.
All the major brands are basically one as good as another.
Good, reputable installers will usually only offer large brand names anyway like Carrier, Lennox, Trane. Rheem, etc.
“Gold gets dug out of the ground, then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility.”--Warren Buffett
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
Costco currently has a promotion going on for Lennox HVAC units that include a $1000 - $1500 Costco cash card rebate incentive. As I understand it this would be in addition to any utility company or factory rebate if any.
Bob
- HardKnocker
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- Location: New Jersey USA
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
My advice is to get many quotes. How many? 10 or more.
Let the salesmen educate you. Read on your own. Compare. After a few quotes you'll begin to see the similarities and the differences, who knows their stuff and who is BSing you.
It's a large investment and if you are not in an emergency situation (no heat in the middle of the winter) you can take some time to learn.
Also consider your utility company. Often they install systems.
Things to consider:
80% efficiency vs. 90+% efficiency units. It does not always make sense to go high eff. Sometimes it is not worth it. Remember, the life of modern furnaces and A/C units is only 10-15 years. Then you will have to replace again.
Variable speed blower vs. single speed blower.
Insulating/sealing your home.
Warranty
Generally, you find a level of unit that is adequate for your needs, not the "best" unit with all the bells and whistles.
Let the salesmen educate you. Read on your own. Compare. After a few quotes you'll begin to see the similarities and the differences, who knows their stuff and who is BSing you.
It's a large investment and if you are not in an emergency situation (no heat in the middle of the winter) you can take some time to learn.
Also consider your utility company. Often they install systems.
Things to consider:
80% efficiency vs. 90+% efficiency units. It does not always make sense to go high eff. Sometimes it is not worth it. Remember, the life of modern furnaces and A/C units is only 10-15 years. Then you will have to replace again.
Variable speed blower vs. single speed blower.
Insulating/sealing your home.
Warranty
Generally, you find a level of unit that is adequate for your needs, not the "best" unit with all the bells and whistles.
“Gold gets dug out of the ground, then we melt it down, dig another hole, bury it again and pay people to stand around guarding it. It has no utility.”--Warren Buffett
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
You can buy perfectly good new air conditioner units and furnaces online (even eBay) and have them shipped for a fraction of the cost of buying through a contractor or even Home Depot. I have a friend who recently put a complete unit in a rental house for $1,200. total cost. He got the condensing unit, the coil and the furnace for $800. including shipping, and he got it installed for $400. The people who ship them are the same dealers the contractors get them from. The same package would cost at least $4,000. if he bought it through a contractor.
Slow and steady wins the race.
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
Not only Costco but other big box stores offer HVAC installs and I wonder, wouldn't the average Joe do better going to the HVAC straight up. What are these "sponsors" responsibilities if things do not go right. Costco would not be giving away 1-1.5K cash cards without some "$ help" from the HVAC dealer. Sounds to good to be trueCABob wrote:Costco currently has a promotion going on for Lennox HVAC units that include a $1000 - $1500 Costco cash card rebate incentive. As I understand it this would be in addition to any utility company or factory rebate if any.
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
Who will honor the warranty when things go south.?Abe wrote:You can buy perfectly good new air conditioner units and furnaces online (even eBay) and have them shipped for a fraction of the cost of buying through a contractor or even Home Depot. I have a friend who recently put a complete unit in a rental house for $1,200. total cost. He got the condensing unit, the coil and the furnace for $800. including shipping, and he got it installed for $400. The people who ship them are the same dealers the contractors get them from. The same package would cost at least $4,000. if he bought it through a contractor.
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
You get the same warranty.meebers wrote:Who will honor the warranty when things go south.?Abe wrote:You can buy perfectly good new air conditioner units and furnaces online (even eBay) and have them shipped for a fraction of the cost of buying through a contractor or even Home Depot. I have a friend who recently put a complete unit in a rental house for $1,200. total cost. He got the condensing unit, the coil and the furnace for $800. including shipping, and he got it installed for $400. The people who ship them are the same dealers the contractors get them from. The same package would cost at least $4,000. if he bought it through a contractor.
Slow and steady wins the race.
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
Are you sure about that? I have been looking at mini split systems for the purpose of making my garage/shop usable more of the year, and I've found that they usually requires that a dealer handle the entire installation for the warranty to be valid. There are also requirements for follow-up service at regular intervals by a dealer to keep the warranty active.Abe wrote:You get the same warranty.meebers wrote:Who will honor the warranty when things go south.?Abe wrote:You can buy perfectly good new air conditioner units and furnaces online (even eBay) and have them shipped for a fraction of the cost of buying through a contractor or even Home Depot. I have a friend who recently put a complete unit in a rental house for $1,200. total cost. He got the condensing unit, the coil and the furnace for $800. including shipping, and he got it installed for $400. The people who ship them are the same dealers the contractors get them from. The same package would cost at least $4,000. if he bought it through a contractor.
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
This is what we found in our area two years ago. We had a Bryant two-stage heat pump system installed.Ged wrote:Are you sure about that? I have been looking at mini split systems for the purpose of making my garage/shop usable more of the year, and I've found that they usually requires that a dealer handle the entire installation for the warranty to be valid. There are also requirements for follow-up service at regular intervals by a dealer to keep the warranty active.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
Here is a long discussion from last summer on this issue. What I got out of the discussion is the installation expertise is the most important part of purchasing an AC / furnace. http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... 1&t=121037jwblue wrote:We received an estimate from a contractor to install a new air conditioner unit and furnace.
He talked up Amanas as if they were clearly the best. He was convincing. It was the only brand he installs. I went online and read reviews for the Amana air conditioners and they were poor.
Which is the most reliable 3 ton air conditioner and furnace?
We have a 1,300 square foot home.
Any other advice would be appreciated. We received a quote of $6,100 including new Freon lines, filter tray, and a thermostat.
Never in the history of market day-traders’ has the obsession with so much massive, sophisticated, & powerful statistical machinery used by the brightest people on earth with such useless results.
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
"You get the same warranty."
Are you sure about that? I have been looking at mini split systems for the purpose of making my garage/shop usable more of the year, and I've found that they usually requires that a dealer handle the entire installation for the warranty to be valid. There are also requirements for follow-up service at regular intervals by a dealer to keep the warranty active.[/quote]
I find it hard to believe that a major HVAC manufacturer would honor the warranty not installed by a certified dealer. Like me "hacking" up an install and then calling for a warranty repair/fix from the MFG.
Are you sure about that? I have been looking at mini split systems for the purpose of making my garage/shop usable more of the year, and I've found that they usually requires that a dealer handle the entire installation for the warranty to be valid. There are also requirements for follow-up service at regular intervals by a dealer to keep the warranty active.[/quote]
I find it hard to believe that a major HVAC manufacturer would honor the warranty not installed by a certified dealer. Like me "hacking" up an install and then calling for a warranty repair/fix from the MFG.
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
I have not done this. I have a friend who has several times and he is happy with it. I went to eBay and this is what I found on a A/C condensing unit and coil:Ged wrote:Are you sure about that? I have been looking at mini split systems for the purpose of making my garage/shop usable more of the year, and I've found that they usually requires that a dealer handle the entire installation for the warranty to be valid. There are also requirements for follow-up service at regular intervals by a dealer to keep the warranty active.Abe wrote:You get the same warranty.meebers wrote:Who will honor the warranty when things go south.?Abe wrote:You can buy perfectly good new air conditioner units and furnaces online (even eBay) and have them shipped for a fraction of the cost of buying through a contractor or even Home Depot. I have a friend who recently put a complete unit in a rental house for $1,200. total cost. He got the condensing unit, the coil and the furnace for $800. including shipping, and he got it installed for $400. The people who ship them are the same dealers the contractors get them from. The same package would cost at least $4,000. if he bought it through a contractor.
Warranty Information:
_ 10 year compressor limited warranty
_ 10 year parts limited warranty (including compressor and coil) With timely registration,
My friend who does this has a licensed HVAC service man install them.
I have rental properties, and I have installed a lot of heating and cooling units. I don't believe I have ever used a warranty. Most of the time when repairs are needed the warranty is out. Most compressors will last at least 10 years, especially if you change the filter regularly and wash the condensing unit out with a hose at least once a year. At the price my friend is buying them for I would not worry a lot about the warranty. At those low prices, I probably would just buy a new condensing unit if something big went out like a compressor.
Slow and steady wins the race.
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
Is it worth the money to install a high efficiency unit?
We live in the San Diego area. We would use the air conditioner about 5 months out of the year.
We live in the San Diego area. We would use the air conditioner about 5 months out of the year.
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
I would definitely go for a two-stage compressor on the AC. In addition to efficiency, we find that it maintains the temp more evenly and is more comfortable at slightly higher thermometer settings.jwblue wrote:Is it worth the money to install a high efficiency unit?
We live in the San Diego area. We would use the air conditioner about 5 months out of the year.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
I just had a contractor install two ACs and two furnaces for our house in March this year. Those replaced 14 years old goodman units that are builder's model when the house was built in 2000. I did quite a bit of research/reading on line and here is my observation:
1. Trane/American Standard(same manufacturer) and Rheem/Rudd(same manufacturer) are the two brands that most people agree that are of excellent quality. Rheem/Rudd quote maybe slightly lower than that of Trane/AmStd given comparable products. Choice of contractors is even more important than the brand/price of the products. Usually there is a list of certified contractors on manufacturer's website, that's where you could start on get quotes.
2. If possible choose the high efficiency furnace with variable speed fan motor. This will make inside temperature more stable, resulting in a noticeable improvement on comfortability. Another benefit is that a mid/lower end AC working with variable speed blower could increase its efficiency. For example a 14.5 SEER Rheem A/C could work at 16 SEER efficiency with variable speed motor. In this case you may not need two stage A/C units.
3. Get a least 3 or 4 quotes from several different brands. Be sure to make an apple to apple comparison when looking at different quotes. I found those contractors listed on manufacturer website are all decent ones.
We choose AmStd (Gold ZM furnace and Gold XI AC) in the end. Very happy with the choice so far (two months only).
1. Trane/American Standard(same manufacturer) and Rheem/Rudd(same manufacturer) are the two brands that most people agree that are of excellent quality. Rheem/Rudd quote maybe slightly lower than that of Trane/AmStd given comparable products. Choice of contractors is even more important than the brand/price of the products. Usually there is a list of certified contractors on manufacturer's website, that's where you could start on get quotes.
2. If possible choose the high efficiency furnace with variable speed fan motor. This will make inside temperature more stable, resulting in a noticeable improvement on comfortability. Another benefit is that a mid/lower end AC working with variable speed blower could increase its efficiency. For example a 14.5 SEER Rheem A/C could work at 16 SEER efficiency with variable speed motor. In this case you may not need two stage A/C units.
3. Get a least 3 or 4 quotes from several different brands. Be sure to make an apple to apple comparison when looking at different quotes. I found those contractors listed on manufacturer website are all decent ones.
We choose AmStd (Gold ZM furnace and Gold XI AC) in the end. Very happy with the choice so far (two months only).
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
Is there such a thing as a high efficiency furnace? Is this supposed to say air conditioner?DriftWood wrote:
2. If possible choose the high efficiency furnace with variable speed fan motor. This will make inside temperature more stable, resulting in a noticeable improvement on comfortability. Another benefit is that a mid/lower end AC working with variable speed blower could increase its efficiency. For example a 14.5 SEER Rheem A/C could work at 16 SEER efficiency with variable speed motor. In this case you may not need two stage A/C units.
Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
High efficiency furnace has > 95% efficiency, while lower efficiency one usually has 80% efficiency. Most brands have fixed speed blower and variable speed blower for > 95% efficiency furnaces. Efficiency of A/C is usually rated by SEER value. The great SEER value is, the higher efficiency. Top of line A/C can have up to 20 SEER nowadays, at a premium price. In my opinion a mid/lower priced A/C working with a variable speed blower (can reach 16 SEER) is in a sweet spot in terms of performance/price.jwblue wrote:Is there such a thing as a high efficiency furnace? Is this supposed to say air conditioner?DriftWood wrote:
2. If possible choose the high efficiency furnace with variable speed fan motor. This will make inside temperature more stable, resulting in a noticeable improvement on comfortability. Another benefit is that a mid/lower end AC working with variable speed blower could increase its efficiency. For example a 14.5 SEER Rheem A/C could work at 16 SEER efficiency with variable speed motor. In this case you may not need two stage A/C units.
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Re: What is the best brand of 3 ton air conditioner & furnac
Abe wrote:I have an air conditioner unit that uses R-22 freon. The unit had a leak and most of the freon leaked out. I had it recharged. It took 8 pounds of R-22 at $60.00 per pound. My total bill was a little over $600. including tax and labor. The service man told me that R-22 is being phased out, so it probably will go even higher. It is getting harder to get units that use R-22 and when you do they are expensive. They work fine. The problem is they will be very expensive to maintain going forward.robertalpert wrote:We bought a 3 ton Rheem AC and Rheem furnace in April 2008.
We faced the decision to go with R22 or the new Puron. We chose the R-22 because it is a more efficient refrigerant than Puron and does not have the contamination risks. Units designed for R22 can still be manufactured, but can no longer be factory pre-filled with the R22. They come from the factory filled with an inert gas. The R22 must be added after installation.
We have been totally satisfied with the choice of Rheem R22 3-ton unit. The installer was expert and did an excellent job.
Did your AC Tech mention that when a Puron system leaks in a major way and contamination sets in, then the entire ac system needs to be replaced --- including evaporator coil, compressor unit, refrigerant tubing, at a cost of several thousand dollars. I'd say $600 is a bargain.