Grand Canyon

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fearless_leader
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Grand Canyon

Post by fearless_leader »

I've never been to the Grand Canyon and I plan to go, but am unsure of some things. Is there a best time to go? Is spring, or fall, or winter, better than summer?

I'm not quite sure what I will do there, but I know that I want to see it! I do not intend to go hiking, not really interested in the mule ride down the canyon, nor the clear glass observation platform. So, would it be best to perhaps combine it with a visit to another park, or some other nearby attraction?

I will be coming from Saint Louis, and if I drive, I think it would take about 2 days on the road to get there. With that in mind, would it make more sense to fly? Not sure what city to fly INTO. Also, if I drive, I don't want to spend 2 days on the road, then a few hours at the canyon, and then turn around and drive another 2 days back to Saint Louis. Can anyone suggest a good strategy to make this trip?
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DSInvestor
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by DSInvestor »

Grand Canyon was great and is a must see but we had way more fun in Southern Utah where there are 5 national parks (Zion, Bryce, Capitol Reef, Canyonlands and Arches), Grand Staircase Esclalante, Monument Valley, beautiful Utah state parks, incredibly scenic drives between the parks. If tight on time, Moab UT offers two national parks (Arches and Canyonlands), state parks, BLM areas with some short hikes at Corona Arch, Fisher Towers, river trips, hiking, rock climbing, mountain biking, offroad vehicles. Arches National Park is packed with beautiful scenery easily enjoyed from your car and some short hikes. Dead Horse Point State Park is just outside of Moab and very beautiful too. Do your driving during the day - you don't want to miss out on the scenery.

Utah National Parks:
http://www.utah.com/nationalparks/

If you have time, swing north into Southern Utah after your visit to Grand Canyon.
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JMacDonald
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by JMacDonald »

Let's start with this link: http://www.nps.gov/grca/index.htm This is a good place to get information.

There are two sides to the Grand Canyon that you can visit: the South Rim and the North Rim. You can visit the South Rim year round, but you can only visit the North Rim in the Summer. Both sides of the Canyon are great, but the North Rim is by far less crowded in the Summer. And Winter months are the least crowded at the South Rim.

Since you don't want to do any hiking, you can walk along the Rim Trail at the South Rim. There are many view points where you can drive to see the Canyon. Depending on how much time you have, I would plan a loop trip from St. Louis to the Canyon and back. Santa Fe could be one place to visit. The Southwest offers many great places to visit. A trip to the Canyon should include more than just the Grand Canyon.
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by Browser »

Beginning about now and through the summer, you'll have LOTS of company if you visit the South Rim. If you intend to overnight there in one of the hotels/motels you can't just wander in and expect to find a vacancy -- you'll need a reservation. You can stay outside the park or in Flagstaff about 70 miles away, but those motels are busy too. The North Rim is less crowded because it's about 200 miles away by road from the South Rim (only about 20 miles if you're a crow). But many fewer rooms available and a reservation is mandatory there too. The North Rim is just opening up, May 15 is the normal date for that. You can make the drive from St. Louis to the South Rim in 2 days if you like driving about 750 miles a day or so, but I don't recommend it. Even if you're crazy enough to do it, you would arrive there in the middle of the night on the 2nd day. Flagstaff would be the logical place to spend your second night, but that's nearly 1400 miles from St. Louis. Makes more sense to plan on taking 3 days to get there. If you fly you'll have to go into Phoenix, or maybe Las Vegas (haven't done that). The South Rim is about 200 miles from Phoenix by road. If you do that, you can see Sedona (the Red Rocks) and drive up the beautiful Oak Creek Canyon highway to Flagstaff. Plenty to see and do in that area. The rim of the Grand Canyon is over 7000 ft elevation, so it's quite pleasant in the summertime; you will fry at the bottom of the canyon in the summer. Best times to go are probably the month of April, when it's not too cold (but could be, with snow too) and again in the fall, maybe September, October. These are times before and after the heavy family tourist season when the weather is reasonably OK. Nights will be cold during these times of the year, and days pretty cool too so you'll need to dress for that. Can even get some snow too.
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JoinToday
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by JoinToday »

Years ago we did a trip: Las Vegas, Hoover Dam tour (cant go inside now), Grand Canyon, Zion, Bryce, Grand Tetons, and Yellowstone NP. The drive was pretty tolerable if I recall correctly (except for the drive home from Yellowstone). I especially remember sunrise at the Grand Canyon, and getting up really early at Yellowstone and seeing all the steam coming out of the ground everywhere. Yellowstone was memorable. Marathon drives dont thrill me anymore, so breaking the trip up into a manageable drive + a stay a day or two or three at one spot was nice. I recommend a loop with stops along the way.
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by harrychan »

If you plan to go to the south rim, keep in mind there are no restaurants or stores throughout the park except where you can park which is the entrance. We had to go to the very end of the trail before finding a small souvenir store which had drinks and cold sandwiches for sale.
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The Wizard
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by The Wizard »

fearless_leader wrote:...Also, if I drive, I don't want to spend 2 days on the road, then a few hours at the canyon, and then turn around and drive another 2 days back to Saint Louis. Can anyone suggest a good strategy to make this trip?
It sounds as if you might almost be happier watching an extended high-definition travel video of the Canyon taken from a helicopter. It could be an hour well spent.
If you do travel there, allow a week or more to visit some combination of central/northern Arizona, southern Utah, and Las Vegas.
You'll have to decide what your real interest are. Go in spring or fall when it's not too crowded or hot...
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truenorth418
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by truenorth418 »

harrychan wrote:If you plan to go to the south rim, keep in mind there are no restaurants or stores throughout the park except where you can park which is the entrance. We had to go to the very end of the trail before finding a small souvenir store which had drinks and cold sandwiches for sale.
Actually there is a grocery store, ATM, laundry facility, and other such amenities on the South Rim in the Canyon Village adjacent to the Mather Campground. True, this area is set back a bit from the Rim Trail but it is not much out of the way.
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by dickenjb »

I would not go to the South Rim in the summer time. it is too crowded. North Rim a better option. I think you are foolish not to hike unless you have physical limitations which prevent you from doing so. It is by hiking down into the canyon that you get a true feeling for its immensity and grandeur.
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by dickenjb »

JoinToday wrote:Years ago we did a trip: Las Vegas, Hoover Dam tour (cant go inside now),
Not true, they have reopened the Hoover Dam for tours. It was closed for a while after 9/11
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by midareff »

The Grand Canyon is a wonderful experience but more than two nights there may be too much. One day a walk down from Hermit's Rest to the El Tovar Hotel area and the next from the East side Overlook back is enough. Try and get reservation inside the park..... I have done that 3 times so far and prices are no more than outside but much more convenient. They used to put cancellations back on the web 10 days in advance so you may be able to catch a cancel then and pair that with a no cost cancel outside the park.

As another poster wrote there are many great sights.. Bryce, Zion, Canyonlands, etc. to pair up your trip. Keep in mind the south rim is about 6,ooo feet of altitude and I have been snowed on there at the end of May so expect it a bit cooler and take appropriate clothes. Try and get sunset dinner either at El Tovar or the Arizona Room at the next lodge to the west.
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

The best time to go is in May, after that you will "fry" in the heat after 10am. No joke. I was there twice - once in early April - we froze, then once in mid-May - perfect temperate weather that got up to about 80-85 during the day before plummeting into the 30's almost immediately after the sunset - that view is spectacular as is sunrise but you need to get their very early in the morning to see it come up, like 4:30 am when it's still freezing out, there's frost on your car window and pitch dark.
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laughlinlvr
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by laughlinlvr »

I've done extended visits and quickie ones. Here's my $0.02:

1. Busiest month is October. (As was confirmed during last year's govt. shutdown where State of Arizona offered to fund GCNP by itself so as not to lose the toursit dollars.) Parking can be an issue at peak times.
2. A seminal experience is to contemplate one's place in the universe while looking at the canyon's vastness. Unfortunately, the crowds you'll encounter in the summer will detract from this somewhat. The effect of the crowds is a quantum leap worse now that people telephone their friends with live updates of what they're looking at.
3. A solution to the crowds is to go (to the south rim only) in the winter. However, Flagstaff and Williams can get cut off by snowfall making a tight schedule and turnaround an iffy proposition.
4. The human impact on the Canyon is an attraction. There is Native American impact through to the historically significant hotels, viewpoints and railroad station. However, I agree that not many people go there to see erected structures.
5. The south rim walking trail can get very dusty and hot. It may be longer than you have reasonable time to do if you have a car to get back to. The other option is to take the N.P. shuttle bus. (This is also true in Zion N.P. in the summer months.)
6. Grand Canyon West is another option. Here the Hualapai offer a fully serviced viewing area. It's not cheap, but being commercial you won't be "coralled" as you will by NPS rangers. This is the place with the Skywalk. (Not something I'd recommend to a fellow Boglehead.) The drive to GCW goes through a Joshua Tree forest, which the roads from Williams and Flagstaff to the NP do not.

I endorse the other posters' recommendations to do a quickie turnaround in GCNP just so you can say you've done it and have the photos to prove it, then leverage your personal car use in southern Utah.

BTW, there's an almost completely unknown yet spectacular Grand Canyon experience to be had by driving on non-surfaced roads from Mesquite, NV through Grand Canyon-Parashant N.M. There's a photogenic lookout over the Canyon north rim where you're almost certain to be alone. I haven't done this yet, but when I do I'll be sure to have a full tank and good tires.
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by dickenjb »

laughlinlvr wrote:BTW, there's an almost completely unknown yet spectacular Grand Canyon experience to be had by driving on non-surfaced roads from Mesquite, NV through Grand Canyon-Parashant N.M. There's a photogenic lookout over the Canyon north rim where you're almost certain to be alone. I haven't done this yet, but when I do I'll be sure to have a full tank and good tires.
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by dickenjb »

midareff wrote:The Grand Canyon is a wonderful experience but more than two nights there may be too much. One day a walk down from Hermit's Rest to the El Tovar Hotel area and the next from the East side Overlook back is enough. Try and get reservation inside the park..... I have done that 3 times so far and prices are no more than outside but much more convenient. They used to put cancellations back on the web 10 days in advance so you may be able to catch a cancel then and pair that with a no cost cancel outside the park.

As another poster wrote there are many great sights.. Bryce, Zion, Canyonlands, etc. to pair up your trip. Keep in mind the south rim is about 6,ooo feet of altitude and I have been snowed on there at the end of May so expect it a bit cooler and take appropriate clothes. Try and get sunset dinner either at El Tovar or the Arizona Room at the next lodge to the west.
+1 to most of this

Stay in the park, NOT in Tusayan

The South rim is actually at 7000 feet not 6000. North Rim about 8200!

Yes dinner at El Tovar dining room is excellent but no view - I think the bar has a view. Arizona Room in the Bright Angel Lodge has excellent sunset views. I favor the baby back ribs with Prickly Pear glaze...
caseynshan
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by caseynshan »

laughlinlvr wrote:I've done extended visits and quickie ones. Here's my $0.02:

1. Busiest month is October. (As was confirmed during last year's govt. shutdown where State of Arizona offered to fund GCNP by itself so as not to lose the toursit dollars.) Parking can be an issue at peak times.
Not according to official docs.. October is not very busy relative to summer..

https://irma.nps.gov/Stats/SSRSReports/ ... ?Park=GRCA

As Expected.. Busiest months..
July and Aug,
then June,
then Sep and May,
then Oct and April
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by Glenn »

I live at 7400' (the South Rim is about 7000') and 60 miles south of the canyon. Here are some comments about the weather:

>June is the hottest. Daytime temperatures at the South Rim are likely to be in the 90s. Intensely sunny.
>Mid-July to mid-September is the monsoon. Typically, we have clear mornings that cloud up by noon. Thunderstorms. Not every day, usually, but 2-3 days per week. Wildflowers. Warm; highs in the 80s. Humid, but humid by Arizona standards - not by midwest or northeast U.S. standards. A great time of year in the Ponderosa Pine forests of northern Arizona.
>Mid-September through October. Dry and sunny. Balmy days and crisp nights. First frost in late September. Also a great time to be in northern Arizona.
>November through March. Winter. May snow, especially next year when an El Nino is forecast. El Nino years are highly variable, but can bring big storms with lots of snow. ln the last cycle, I had 20' of snowfall with maximum snow depth in January of 6', and temperatures down to -26 F. Major highways get shut down during storms, but they usually clear them within 24 hours after the storm ends. Local roads can be shut down for much longer before the plows get to them. (I was on snowshoes for a week getting from the county road to my house before the drive got plowed.) You may lose access to the South Rim for a few days. The North Rim, of course, is closed all winter.
>Storms in April and May aren't usually anything to be concerned about. Sure, we had snow a week ago. A few inches on the ground one morning, and gone by the afternoon. Nothing close to a road closure.

Summer is peak tourist season. I was surprised to read a comment above that the crowds peak in October. That sure is not my impression; I thought July/August was much worse. I like winter at the canyon, also, of course. Few people, it's usually beautiful, but there is always the chance that you'll get to the South Rim and find it completely socked in by winter clouds. Not a problem if you live around here, but could ruin a trip if you've come a long ways and are here for only a brief period.
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by Browser »

First time we hiked the canyon was in the middle of March. It was a lovely day when we started down, cool and sunny. We camped at Bright Angel campground that night (reservation required) and ate dinner at the Phantom Ranch mess hall (reservation also required). In the middle of the night, hard rain and wind started up and lasted all night; nearly flattened the tent. Luckily it stopped at dawn but everything was soaked. On the hike back up Bright Angel trail the wet sloppy trail turned into a snowy trail and it was cold, cold. When it rains down below that time of year, it is snow on the rim which is about a mile higher. The second time we hiked, we went around the middle of May. We took the shuttle from the South to North rim, stayed overnight there, and then hiked Rim to Rim camping two nights at Bright Angel. Rim weather was very nice, but it was hot, hot already down below. Splitting the difference, I'd pick April for a hike down. If you hike from the South Rim the trail will be very crowded from late May through the summer. Every idiot in the universe feels like they have to hike down without the proper shoes and maybe with a $1 plastic bottle of water and maybe with none at all. Going down is easy and then they have to climb out. If you're a real hiker coming up the Bright Angel, you have to navigate through the river of tourists on the way up while you're carrying your pack. GC South Rim is a good place NOT to go during the summer vacation months IMO. North Rim better but fewer accommodations and it's 200 miles from the South Rim by road so you can tack on another couple days travel time up there and back.
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by dickenjb »

October IS the busiest month for R2R hikers....

Main reason is it is the best weather before the North Rim closes for the winter.

We did our R2R (North to South) in September because we were lucky enough to snag two nights at Phantom Ranch - enabling us to go R2R with just a daypack. "The Box" was pretty warm even in September - in July and August it can be brutally hot, maybe 120F and the black metamorphic rock radiates Infrared at you...
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by d0gerz »

I went 5 years ago. Flew into Las Vegas, then rented a car and made the 4-4.5 hour drive to the South Rim of the Grand Canyon. Also stopped and did the Hoover Dam tour on the way. I was with a group of friends, we hiked down to the campground where we had made a reservation. Except we never made it there, it got dark, and we kind of had to camp out in the open. Which isn't really allowed, but don't tell anybody. Then back up the next day.

It was a great trip. Down one day and back up the next seemed like a decent amount of time. Also flying into Vegas is easy, you can find good deals from just about anywhere.

I also second the non-recommendation for the Grand Canyon West Skywalk. It's a drive to get up there on an unpaved road (at least it was at the time) and the whole thing is a bit of a rip-off. For me it wasn't so much how expensive it was rather it felt like lots of hidden costs that you weren't made aware of beforehand.
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by Browser »

dickenjb wrote:October IS the busiest month for R2R hikers....

Main reason is it is the best weather before the North Rim closes for the winter.

We did our R2R (North to South) in September because we were lucky enough to snag two nights at Phantom Ranch - enabling us to go R2R with just a daypack. "The Box" was pretty warm even in September - in July and August it can be brutally hot, maybe 120F and the black metamorphic rock radiates Infrared at you...
The bottom of the Canyon is at an elevation similar to Phoenix, and the weather in Phoenix is a good indication of the weather at the bottom of the Canyon at any given time. If you like Phoenix in the summer, you'll like being at the bottom of the Canyon then too. The South Rim of the Canyon is similar to Flagstaff, maybe a little higher elevation and temps a little colder and snowfall a little higher. If you like Flagstaff in the winter, you'll probably like the South Rim as well. Of course the North Rim is higher still and is closed from Nov - May because of snow.
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by Glenn »

If I wasn't a local, my ideal trip would be to go in mid-September to mid-October. Nice weather, fewer people. Go to the North Rim, but also drive a big loop and see Bryce, Zion, the Petrified Forest, Monument Valley, etc.
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by Doom&Gloom »

Just to throw in my 2c: We went to Zion a few days after the South Rim of GC a few winters ago. We really enjoyed Zion, but would have enjoyed it more if we had done it prior to the GC. After seeing the GC, almost everything else pales IMO. I would recommend spending the night at one of the hotels in the GC Park if you can arrange it. Seeing the canyon at sunset and sunrise were the highlights of our trip. Dinner at the El Tovar was excellent and quite reasonably priced.

Also, consider Carlsbad Caverns since you're coming from St Louis. Sticking around until sunset to see the bat flight is worthwhile if you can fit that into your schedule.
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by Glenn »

If you like Phoenix in the summer, you'll like being at the bottom of the Canyon then too.
Ah, Phoenix in the summer. You step outside in the morning. The heat rises up off the ground like a physical force. You're instantly slammed backwards, drenched by sweat.

And then the sun comes up.
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by Browser »

Glenn wrote:
If you like Phoenix in the summer, you'll like being at the bottom of the Canyon then too.
Ah, Phoenix in the summer. You step outside in the morning. The heat rises up off the ground like a physical force. You're instantly slammed backwards, drenched by sweat.

And then the sun comes up.
It's going to hit 105 in Phoenix in a day or two. June and July should be nice this year. I'm getting my frozen margarita's ready! (not to drink, to pour over my head)
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by investor1 »

A few years ago, my buddy and I backpacked from the south rim to the north rim and back in late October. The whether was perfect. It can get cold at night due to the high elevation (if you are at the top of the canyon). I would think either Spring or Fall would be the best time to visit. The summer is likely too hot during the day.
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by chaz »

Fly to Las Vegas and rent a car.
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by mrehal »

I went to Las Vegas for a medical conference and made it part of my trip. You can set up a tour bus package for around $120. We left around 7am and took a ~3 hour bus ride to the Canyon. It was an all day event, went to several places on the outskirts, the Hoover Dam, meals were included, etc. It's one of those once in a lifetime things you need to see, but probably not more than once. During the trip I remember thinking "OK, I saw it. Back to the casino!" :mrgreen: :moneybag
It was definitely worth seeing, but make it part of another trip.
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by Random Musings »

I have been to the North Rim twice, both experiences enjoyable. Took a mule down the canyon one time, that was a lot of fun. Both times I visited in the summer, it was pretty hot.

Also, if you have the opportunity, go to Bryce Canyon NP and Zion NP - both parks are not too far from the North Rim. If heights don't bother you, recommend the Angel's Landing trail. You won't forget it. Start that hike early in the day.

Arches NP and Canyonlands NP, although both in Utah as well, require a bit more time. Canyonlands has (I think) three major roads that go into the park. We went in via Grand View Point Road since it was closest to Arches, but can't say if that's the best one to take.

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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by BigFoot48 »

DSInvestor wrote:Grand Canyon was great and is a must see but we had way more fun in Southern Utah where there are 5 national parks (Zion, Bryce, Capitol Reef, Canyonlands and Arches), Grand Staircase Esclalante, Monument Valley, beautiful Utah state parks, incredibly scenic drives between the parks. If tight on time, Moab UT offers two national parks (Arches and Canyonlands), state parks, BLM areas with some short hikes at Corona Arch, Fisher Towers, river trips, hiking, rock climbing, mountain biking, offroad vehicles. Arches National Park is packed with beautiful scenery easily enjoyed from your car and some short hikes. Dead Horse Point State Park is just outside of Moab and very beautiful too. Do your driving during the day - you don't want to miss out on the scenery.

If you have time, swing north into Southern Utah after your visit to Grand Canyon.
Having been to the Grand Canyon and Utah many times I agree with the above recommendation, in fact, I think I enjoy looking at the sights from the close-up bottom rather than the distant top. I've driven my car to the bottom of the Grand Canyon too, but that's another story.
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by dickenjb »

Random Musings wrote:Also, if you have the opportunity, go to Bryce Canyon NP and Zion NP - both parks are not too far from the North Rim. If heights don't bother you, recommend the Angel's Landing trail. You won't forget it. Start that hike early in the day.
Doing that in July. Hope I don't chicken out, I hear the last bit is pretty exposed. I am not afraid of heights normally so hoping it is all good. Do you recommend bringing gloves for the chains?
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by The Wizard »

BigFoot48 wrote: Having been to the Grand Canyon and Utah many times I agree with the above recommendation, in fact, I think I enjoy looking at the sights from the close-up bottom rather than the distant top. I've driven my car to the bottom of the Grand Canyon too, but that's another story.
I'll bet that excursion compares favorably to the time I drove my pontoon-equipped pickup the entire length of the Grand Canyon via the Colorado River...
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by JMacDonald »

I have been to the Grand Canyon many times both the North and South Rim, the Phantom Ranch, and even river rafted the 225 miles of the Canyon. I am going again this January. So some of the comments have reminded me of this movie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf6R1WFfdpo
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by BigFoot48 »

The Wizard wrote:I'll bet that excursion compares favorably to the time I drove my pontoon-equipped pickup the entire length of the Grand Canyon via the Colorado River...
I'm sorry I wasn't there at the time to wave to you as you motored by! http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/Showthre ... mond-Creek
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JMacDonald
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by JMacDonald »

BigFoot48 wrote:
The Wizard wrote:I'll bet that excursion compares favorably to the time I drove my pontoon-equipped pickup the entire length of the Grand Canyon via the Colorado River...
I'm sorry I wasn't there at the time to wave to you as you motored by! http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/Showthre ... mond-Creek
Good pictures. Diamond Creek is where we pull out when I rafted the Canyon. I didn't know you could camp there.
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by Random Musings »

dickenjb wrote:
Random Musings wrote:Also, if you have the opportunity, go to Bryce Canyon NP and Zion NP - both parks are not too far from the North Rim. If heights don't bother you, recommend the Angel's Landing trail. You won't forget it. Start that hike early in the day.
Doing that in July. Hope I don't chicken out, I hear the last bit is pretty exposed. I am not afraid of heights normally so hoping it is all good. Do you recommend bringing gloves for the chains?
I'm more fearful of man made heights than natural heights, but it is relatively exposed in some areas. With respect to gloves, I didn't use them, but you always can bring a pair in your pack just in case. As always, wear a good pair of hiking footware, carry lots of fluids and a snack - the views are spectacular. The weather was very nice when we went and the winds were relatively calm which was a plus.

RM
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suming
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by suming »

Any doctor is reading this thread? Since the 5 National Parks sounds so appealing, I am just wondering if a diabetics patient (my husband 53 yrs old) will be able to pull it through on the trip of 8 days. Should I check with our own doctor? I am thinking more car ride plus 1 short distance hiking and 1 rafting??
tallgirl1204
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by tallgirl1204 »

Angels' Landing: no gloves need for the chains. They are for mental support and (maybe) balance, not using for holding your weight.

One day raft trip: I recommend checking in with Colorado River Discovery folks in Page, Arizona. I took my 80-year-old father on their half-day float trip down the canyon and he had a wonderful day. This is a loop trip, starting at Glen Canyon dam, ending at Lees Ferry (with a bus back to Page) and I am not sure how the logistics work right now, due to road damage that makes the circuit more difficult. They were doing out-and-back trips from the dam and/or lees ferry in the interim-- you would want to check in with them. They are a class act.

There is a one-day whitewater trip on the lower (Western) end that involves a long trip down Diamond Creek Road and a helicopter lift at the end, and has whitewater, but the ratings on that trip are erratic.

I agree with the "two day" idea if you don't want to hike much in the Canyon. There are some nice trails along the rim that will satisfy almost anyone's desire for spectacular views. If you want to spend a few more days in the area, consider Sedona which is weird and lovely, Flagstaff's Museum of Northern Arizona which has an amazing collection of Native American pots and such, Lowell Observatory where Pluto was discovered (right in downtown Flagstaff) and even going to dinner in Winslow Arizona at La Posada, an old railway hotel now serving great food (you can stand on the corner if you want, too). I even like Meteor Crater, which seems like a tourist trap but is a pretty amazing geological feature with a nice visitor center.

I also "plus one" the idea of either a spring or fall trip. October is beautiful, as is late April/early May (although spring winds can be epic). If you go during the Spring, google "Grand Falls" -- it is less than an hour from Flagstaff, runs only for a few weeks during snowmelt, and is as wide and tall as Niagara falls when it does-- chocolate orange and thick like a milkshake with mud. If it's running, it's worth your time.

Good luck planning your trip!
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by Browser »

Just saw a news report that the pipe that brings water to Grand Canyon hikers (on the Bright Angel trail, I assume) has busted and will cost $200 Million to repair. That spot is a common destination for day hikers, with water and pottys available there. Now they'll have to carry more water than the usual convenience store bottle. More experienced hikers are being warned to be careful not to step on the bodies of dehydrated and dying tourist day hikers on the upper part of the Bright Angel.
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by Browser »

You might want to cancel any plans to visit Sedona and Oak Creek Canyon. A major fire is burning just north of Sedona in the Oak Creek Canyon with windy conditions and extremely dry forest areas filled with highly flammable pine trees. Looks like this will be a disaster for this beautiful area.
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by rj49 »

If you want to spare the rental car/driving hassles, just fly into Las Vegas and do a tour bus to the Canyon, and to Hoover Dam if you want (especially if you can avoid losing money through gambling). The excess and glitz of Vegas makes a nice contrast with the natural beauty of the Canyon too (although both are choked with tourists), and it makes a nice winter escape.

I also second the post about seeing the parks in Utah, which are just amazing, like a landscape from another world. When I was younger and more daring I rode the Moab Slickrock mountain bike trail, another amazing experience. Just don't go hiking on your own and end up like the guy featured in the movie "127 Hours", who had to leave an arm behind to escape from some rocks.
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by Glenn »

You might want to cancel any plans to visit Sedona and Oak Creek Canyon. A major fire is burning just north of Sedona in the Oak Creek Canyon with windy conditions and extremely dry forest areas filled with highly flammable pine trees. Looks like this will be a disaster for this beautiful area.
It's at 450 acres now, which isn't really big by western standards. It's going up the canyon walls and the biggest problem is that that highway 89a in the upper part of Oak Creek Canyon is closed. This isn't really a big deal yet, and we have many such fires each summer. Remember, fires are normal here. It's worth watching, but I certainly wouldn't cancel travel plans.
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Taylor Larimore
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by Taylor Larimore »

Fearless Leader:

During my lifetime, I made three trips around the world sight-seeing. Grand Canyon and Antarctica were the two most memorable for me.

Best wishes.
Taylor
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augustine
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by augustine »

Glad to find this topic. I was thinking about going to the Grand Canyon the week of Thanksgiving. My concern is the weather and getting there from a conference in San Diego. From what one poster said, November may be a problem. I wonder if anyone can shed more light on this? Maybe it is just hit or miss on the snow. I wonder if the snow could prevent getting there at all? I don't understand anything about the geography.

Bill
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by Browser »

Slide fire near Sedona has now burned 4500 acres and is 100% uncontrolled. Declared a Type 1 fire, which means that it is eligible for all national resources to fight. About 3000 people have been advised of the need to evacuate their dwellings. It is near the Slide Rock park, which is a predominant tourist attraction in the Oak Creek Canyon. Highway 89 running from Sedona to Flagstaff is closed.
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mojave
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by mojave »

Everyone is talking about the North and South rim but we went to the West rim because it was closest to Vegas where we were staying. The West rim is on a Reservation and there are no railings. We went the day after my now husband proposed to me - my husband has no fear of heights and works hundreds of feet up in the air with nothing but a harness, so he was standing at the edge looking down. I spent as much time as I could 15+ feet from the edge, preferably backed up against something. I kept thinking "don't you go and die now that we're engaged!" :)

It was absolutely stunning though. We were the last group to go and the long shadows of the end of the day were very cool but very eerie.
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JMacDonald
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by JMacDonald »

wcombs wrote:Glad to find this topic. I was thinking about going to the Grand Canyon the week of Thanksgiving. My concern is the weather and getting there from a conference in San Diego. From what one poster said, November may be a problem. I wonder if anyone can shed more light on this? Maybe it is just hit or miss on the snow. I wonder if the snow could prevent getting there at all? I don't understand anything about the geography.

Bill
It is about 550 miles from San Diego to the South Rim of the Grand Canyon. That is a good day's drive. Thanksgiving is a popular time for visitors at the Canyon so reservations might be needed. There are lots of rooms there so it may be possible to get something at the last minute. Snow is a very real possibility in November. However, it is possible to drive there if there is snow on the ground or snowing. You would just need to be prepared for the possibility.
Best Wishes, | Joe
BanditKing
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by BanditKing »

I was at the South Rim at the end of April. Had a good time.

We drove from Phoenix to Williams and then took the train from Williams up to the South Rim as part of a package with the Grand Canyon Railway ([url]http://www.thetrain.com)[/url]. We did the complete 3-day package - one night in williams, train to the GC the next morning, the afternoon, evening, overnight at Masswik Lodge and next morning at the GC, then the train back for another overnight in Williams, leaving the following morning. It was really worth it and the train ride was sooo pleasant. We did the upgrade to the deluxe car and IMHO it was worth it.

The GC itself was fun, although weather was uncooperative (snowed). One big complaint was that the food up at the GC was "meh", even in one of the nicer restaurants. Not awful, just not inspiring.

I can't recommend the whole train-based visit enough if you are thinking of just driving in for the day or overnight. If you are RVing in, obviously it doesn't apply as much.
Last edited by BanditKing on Thu May 22, 2014 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Browser
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by Browser »

JMacDonald wrote:
wcombs wrote:Glad to find this topic. I was thinking about going to the Grand Canyon the week of Thanksgiving. My concern is the weather and getting there from a conference in San Diego. From what one poster said, November may be a problem. I wonder if anyone can shed more light on this? Maybe it is just hit or miss on the snow. I wonder if the snow could prevent getting there at all? I don't understand anything about the geography.

Bill
It is about 550 miles from San Diego to the South Rim of the Grand Canyon. That is a good day's drive. Thanksgiving is a popular time for visitors at the Canyon so reservations might be needed. There are lots of rooms there so it may be possible to get something at the last minute. Snow is a very real possibility in November. However, it is possible to drive there if there is snow on the ground or snowing. You would just need to be prepared for the possibility.
When I lived in Flagstaff, the first blizzard was in November and there was a lot of snow. So, it can happen. Unless things have changed, chains are required on I-40 and roads in the Flagstaff area if the snow is deep enough, since they don't throw salt and chemicals on the roads up there. But with global warming maybe it will be 80 degrees then. :happy
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Re: Grand Canyon

Post by heyyou »

For forty years, I have lived a few hours from the Grand Canyon. Thanksgiving was my only four day weekend other than scheduled vacations. During those wetter years, the first heavy snow of the year would often occur sometime near that weekend. In the low deserts of Phoenix or Las Vegas, it would just drizzle for 24 hours.

After the storm clears, the snow-topped Canyon is gorgeous, but it can be just a bowl full of clouds. If you are there during a snow storm, you won't see beyond the guardrails.

Amtrak stops in Williams AZ, the terminus of the Grand Canyon train. On Amtrak, boarding in St. Louis, you would have to change trains in Kansas City.

Consider flying to Vegas with a reservation for an overnight bus tour to the Grand Canyon to spread out the weather risk. Even if your tour's hotel is just outside of the park, the national park's shuttle buses run into the park often, at least during the summer.

Vegas also has scenic flights.
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