VW TDI Engines

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Buster65
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VW TDI Engines

Post by Buster65 »

Any boggleheads like their Jetta, Golf or Passat TDI vehicle. I was at the NYC auto show and noticed that these cars get hybrid like mileage. I'm seriously considering getting one.
jeff1949
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by jeff1949 »

I have owned several VW diesels in the distant past and I do have a fondness for them. Just be aware that diesel prices are quite a bit higher than even premium gasoline......at least in our area......so that has put a bit of a damper on them for me. We recently bought a Toyota Camry Hybrid after careful consideration of the TDI.
stoptothink
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by stoptothink »

jeff1949 wrote:Just be aware that diesel prices are quite a bit higher than even premium gasoline......at least in our area......so that has put a bit of a damper on them for me. We recently bought a Toyota Camry Hybrid after careful consideration of the TDI.
This. With the diesel fuel premium (which is ~20% here), they are marginally (if at all) more efficient in stop-and-go traffic, and the fact that they cost more from the get-go, the cost of ownership is not going to be cheaper than something with a conventional ICE powerplant. If you do a lot of street driving, it will be more expensive period. Great cars, fun to drive with the broad torque, and diesels tend to last longer than ICE engines.
Last edited by stoptothink on Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Don Christy
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by Don Christy »

Have a Jetta Sportwagen TDI and love it. Though, the price of diesel does bother me a bit.
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Desert
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by Desert »

archman65 wrote:Any boggleheads like their Jetta, Golf or Passat TDI vehicle. I was at the NYC auto show and noticed that these cars get hybrid like mileage. I'm seriously considering getting one.
I'm a huge fan. I had a 2004 Passat TDI and recently replaced that with a 2013 Passat TDI. I do a lot of high-traffic highway commuting, and I've averaged 45 mpg over the first 11,000 miles with the car. That includes all the large speed variations on the highway, plus driving in the city. And the car interior is great. The back seat is huge, with a lot of leg room. And the range is great. I regularly get 650-700 miles per tank. So I'm getting hybrid-like mileage (or better), while driving a "real" car with abundant low-rpm torque.
killjoy2012
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by killjoy2012 »

Since when are turbo diesels not ICE? :confused

TDIs are a good engine and have a cult following in the US given their good MPG and having been like the only turbo diesel car available in the US for years. But that's changing, as more OEMs are producing new vehicles with turbo diesel options.

And as others have already pointed out, their MPG is great, but diesel in the US is about 20% more and the purchase price is normally several thousand dollars higher. On the TDI, you also need to be mindful of the timing belts that are known to fail around the 100k mile mark, and their replacement is not cheap. That's why you'll often see many TDIs for sale just prior to hitting that mileage.
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fishnskiguy
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by fishnskiguy »

Man, what states do you guys live in where diesel is 20% more expensive than gas? Here in Colorado diesel is six cents per gallon more than premium at our local Costco.

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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by dcb »

Desert wrote:
archman65 wrote:Any boggleheads like their Jetta, Golf or Passat TDI vehicle. I was at the NYC auto show and noticed that these cars get hybrid like mileage. I'm seriously considering getting one.
I'm a huge fan. I had a 2004 Passat TDI and recently replaced that with a 2013 Passat TDI. I do a lot of high-traffic highway commuting, and I've averaged 45 mpg over the first 11,000 miles with the car. That includes all the large speed variations on the highway, plus driving in the city. And the car interior is great. The back seat is huge, with a lot of leg room. And the range is great. I regularly get 650-700 miles per tank. So I'm getting hybrid-like mileage (or better), while driving a "real" car with abundant low-rpm torque.
I will echo the above comments. I have owned a 2004 Jetta TDI, 2009 Jetta TDI, and now drive a 2013 Passat TDI. All were great economical cars, but I really like the Passat. My experience is similar to Desert's with fuel consumption of around 40mpg driving approx. 50% highway and city driving. I am not sure I would get much over half that with a gasoline car the same size and performance of the Passat. Diesel runs about 20 cents/gal more in my area.
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Jonezez
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by Jonezez »

fishnskiguy wrote:Man, what states do you guys live in where diesel is 20% more expensive than gas? Here in Colorado diesel is six cents per gallon more than premium at our local Costco.

Chris
You have diesel at your local costco in Colorado? That's great! Not in California.
I would consider diesel; however, I get almost all my gas at costco which is typically 5% less than surrounding gas stations. The premium for diesel in California is even more if you calculate the no-diesel-at-costco factor.
TFinator
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by TFinator »

I was quite close to buying a Golf TDI. In the end, I didn't want to spend that much on a car (couple months out of undergrad). It seemed awesome and I still have envy. One thing to look out for is the transmission. I believe they require an expensive service on a pretty frequent occasion.
For this reason i was only looking at manual. Just what I remember from my research though..
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ryuns
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by ryuns »

They seem to have really high owner satisfaction rates. If you like the car, get the car, but I wouldn't do it for the "hybrid-like" mileage. Total cost of ownership is likely to be higher than, say, a Prisu hybrid. If you don't want a hybrid, I'd compare it to a new, efficient, gas-powered mid-size sedan, like an Accord. Though the diesels still do better, the mileage gap has decreased quite a bit. E.g.:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do? ... 5&id=34489
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emoore
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by emoore »

fishnskiguy wrote:Man, what states do you guys live in where diesel is 20% more expensive than gas? Here in Colorado diesel is six cents per gallon more than premium at our local Costco.

Chris
We in Colorado are spoiled when it comes to gas and diesel prices. Having lived in Illinois and California and traveling to the east coast, gas and diesel prices are so much more expensive than Colorado. I have noticed many TDIs around here. I was seriously considering a Golf TDI but I don't drive enough on the highway to get the best milage. So I went with a GTI instead. Great car.
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by letsgobobby »

Rumors of a 0.5% rate of catastrophic fuel pump failure led me to a Prius instead of a VW Golf. The VW TDI forums are full of people who had catastrophic fuel pump failures that VW wouldn't cover out of warranty. Those are $8000-$10,000 repairs so not a risk I was willing to take. The car was fun to drive though. In the end, it's a premium car with a premium feel (for a small car) to quote Consumer Reports, but you're not going to save a ton of money driving it over gas, given the higher cost of diesel and the higher up front costs, plus the lesser reliability compared to the best small cars.
Last edited by letsgobobby on Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
02sbxstr
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by 02sbxstr »

Here are some hard numbers: (I'm an engineer and have 40 years of mileage numbers for the cars we've owned - I'm retired now and working on getting a life). We had a Jetta TDI for 2 years between June 2010 and August 2012. During that period, we drove 16k miles at an average of 37.6 mpg or $0.100 / mile. During that period, we paid an average of $3.79 / gal for diesel versus $3.36 / gal for gasoline for another car we owned. The Jetta was replaced by an Audi A4, roughly the same size car. For the last 18 months, the A4 has cost $0.144 / mile at an aveage cost of $3.59 /gal. So, if I scale the A4 cost back to $3.36 / gal, it is $0.135 / mile -- 35% more than the Jetta considering fuel cost. So the efficiency of the diesel vastly more than offsets the added fuel cost. The Jetta was a nice, if somewhat frumpy, car. Never had an issue with the diesel living in New England. If Audi had offered a TDI, we probably would have bought it.
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by TheGreyingDuke »

02sbxstr wrote:Here are some hard numbers: (I'm an engineer and have 40 years of mileage numbers for the cars we've owned - I'm retired now and working on getting a life). We had a Jetta TDI for 2 years between June 2010 and August 2012. During that period, we drove 16k miles at an average of 37.6 mpg or $0.100 / mile. During that period, we paid an average of $3.79 / gal for diesel versus $3.36 / gal for gasoline for another car we owned. The Jetta was replaced by an Audi A4, roughly the same size car. For the last 18 months, the A4 has cost $0.144 / mile at an aveage cost of $3.59 /gal. So, if I scale the A4 cost back to $3.36 / gal, it is $0.135 / mile -- 35% more than the Jetta considering fuel cost. So the efficiency of the diesel vastly more than offsets the added fuel cost. The Jetta was a nice, if somewhat frumpy, car. Never had an issue with the diesel living in New England. If Audi had offered a TDI, we probably would have bought it.
Your figures show that the extra cost for the A4, as calculated, was about $320 a year. And for that you got the A4 fit and finish, likely it had quattro (most of the A4s in the US do), the quieter ride of the A4 (I have a Jetta Sportswagen now, although with the 2.0 turbo and have had a mess of A4s and A6s over the past decade or so.)

It all depends on how much it is worth to you, no one answer, as is said, your mileage may vary.
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by sambb »

I did all the cost analysis, and found TDIs a poor economic value over a hybrid Camry or accord, or a 4 cylinder version. The accord is particularly strong in all of its trims. However, one cannot put a price on the preference of a german car or a Japanese car, so it can be difficult.
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by CMartel2 »

did all the cost analysis, and found TDIs a poor economic value over a hybrid Camry or accord, or a 4 cylinder version
That depends on how long you drive them. There is every reason in the world to believe a TDI engine will run far longer than a hybrid engine will run. Diesels also have a lot more torque and are fun to drive. I can't say the same for a Prius.

I've had two diesels in my life. A 1985 Mercedes TDI ran for 384,000 miles before I traded it in. I now have a Jetta TDI that I have put 244,000 miles on with little problem. Alas, I'm going to have to trade the Jetta in for something with a bit more ground clearance, as we're moving into an area that gets a lot of snow.
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ClevrChico
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by ClevrChico »

I considered it. Watch a YouTube video of the TDI timing belt replacement procedure. It seems a lot more complicated than any other timing belt replacement I've seen.

I'd be skeptical that most mechanics or even some dealers can do the job correctly.

Source: Seven years of VW ownership and a few trips to the dealer.
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by Alex Frakt »

letsgobobby wrote:Rumors of a 0.5% rate of catastrophic fuel pump failure led me to a Prius instead of a VW Golf. The VW TDI forums are full of people who had catastrophic fuel pump failures that VW wouldn't cover out of warranty. Those are $8000-$10,000 repairs so not a risk I was willing to take. The car was fun to drive though. In the end, it's a premium car with a premium feel (for a small car) to quote Consumer Reports, but you're not going to save a ton of money driving it over gas, given the higher cost of diesel and the higher up front costs, plus the lesser reliability compared to the best small cars.
My father had a 2012 Jetta TDI. He was the perfect candidate for one, driving 35k miles per year almost entirely on the highway, so fuel costs are definitely a factor and hybrids have no mileage advantage. Last month ago there was a catastrophic fuel system failure while my mother was driving it across the country, stranding her in Colorado. The car was under 2 years old, but had 60k miles, so they would not cover it under warranty. The dealer told her (actually he told my brother, the lawyer, who got involved at this point) it would be $10,000 to fix, my brother eventually managed to persuade the dealer to buy it for full blue book minus the 10k. My dad replaced it with a new Mazda 3.
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by Frugal Al »

Alex Frakt wrote: The car was under 2 years old, but had 60k miles, so they would not cover it under warranty. The dealer told her (actually he told my brother, the lawyer, who got involved at this point) it would be $10,000 to fix, my brother eventually managed to persuade the dealer to buy it for full blue book minus the 10k. My dad replaced it with a new Mazda 3.
People NEVER forget when a car leaves them stranded. Too bad your folks had to lawyer up in order to get some resolution. I'm amazed Volkswagen wouldn't step up to the plate with such a relatively new vehicle, despite the mileage. They probably didn't want to set a precedent. What does this say about the lack of robust engineering?

I've almost purchased VWs a number of times, yet every time I'm ready to take the plunge, my research steers me otherwise. And it's not just VW. As we've discussed many times in other threads, all marques have their issues; however, some issues are more glaring than others. I want my daily driver to be relatively hassle free. And for a daily driver I will gladly trade "fun to drive" for reliability. Even issues repaired under warranty are hassles. Will the regional rep OK the warranty repair? How long will I be without my car? Will the problem happen again because of faulty design? Etc. No thanks.

When I read yesterday that Ford missed profits because of warranty related issues, I thought I'd do some digging. There are some interesting charts here. http://www.warrantyweek.com/archive/ww20120712.html
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by quicknss »

Can the TDI be serviced at normal mechanics or does it always need to go to the dealer?
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by TheGreyingDuke »

Alex Frakt wrote:My father had a 2012 Jetta TDI. He was the perfect candidate for one, driving 35k miles per year almost entirely on the highway, so fuel costs are definitely a factor and hybrids have no mileage advantage. Last month ago there was a catastrophic fuel system failure while my mother was driving it across the country, stranding her in Colorado. The car was under 2 years old, but had 60k miles, so they would not cover it under warranty. The dealer told her (actually he told my brother, the lawyer, who got involved at this point) it would be $10,000 to fix, my brother eventually managed to persuade the dealer to buy it for full blue book minus the 10k. My dad replaced it with a new Mazda 3.

This is a longstanding problem, well documented on various sites around the web http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=286380. VW claims, with some justification, that the problem is caused by the poor quality of diesel fuel in the US. Somehow in the supply line it gets mixed with a small amount of gasoline, which reduces the lubricant qualities, thus playing havoc with the high pressure fuel pump used in this system. This causes the fuel pump to shred, sending small metal particles throughout the fuel system and requiring the $10k repair noted. VW covers this all if the vehicle is under warranty and has been flexible with other cases, but usually it requires an escalation beyond the dealership.

VW has claimed that this is a problem only in the US, even our friends to the north have been spared the problem, or at least that was the case when I last investigated this 18 months ago, when I was considering the purchase of a TDI. Instead I opted for the 2.0 turbo (TSI) probably one of the sweetest 2 litre engine out there. But given that this has been documented as a problem since 2009, one would have thought that either they would re-design the system or stop selling the vehicles in the US.
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by timmy »

I have a 2006 golf tdi w/100k miles.

Love it.

It has aged well.

I live in a major metro area... no issues finding folks to service it.

Not every gas station carries diesel. Look around to make sure that you have enough access points. (All highway gas stations carry diesel.)

Got through this past, very cold winter with no issues... it always started.

Get 50+ mpg on highway; low 30s on local roads.
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by snowman »

I have nothing against VW or European cars in general – I grew up with them overseas, my family drives them, they are great cars in many respects. My brother works at VW supplier over there, so I get some occasional insight, but that’s irrelevant here.

Once you avoid the junk on the bottom and go mainstream or upscale, the biggest problem IMO is over-engineering, causing reliability issues down the road. While here in the US we generally value reliability the most, the top priority in Europe is engineering. Getting the latest feature (whether needed or not) to this year model update is more important than making sure it will not cause issues with existing systems. Customers generally value the latest engineering more than reliability (to a certain extent, obviously) – they absolutely expect to take their cars to the dealer during warranty. And they don’t understand why here in the US we expect appliances lasting 20 years without single problem, instead of driving real cars that occasionally break.

The other problem here is lower quality of fuel and, to some extent, oil. In Europe, for many reasons, the 3 (engine, fuel, oil) work in unison, as the specs are tightly defined and controlled. It’s very different here, and I can see why VW would blame the fuel on some of their problems. While the customer can get specified oil, there is no such choice at the pump.

They really are sweet cars – low end torque, well-shaped seats, good mileage, tightly built. But not for me – I value reliability the most. Just like Frugal Al, I want my DD to be there for me every time I need it. That does not mean that Honda will outlast VW with TDI every single time. In fact, there are many diesels on the road with very high mileage. But the odds are on Honda’s side should you buy a new car today and expected it to last many years without significant problems.
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by Ged »

snowman wrote: While here in the US we generally value reliability the most, the top priority in Europe is engineering.
The US is very different from Europe in a number of respects. One of them is in the US number of vehicles and vehicle miles per capita is 40-50% higher.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... per_capita
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by jlawrence01 »

jeff1949 wrote:I have owned several VW diesels in the distant past and I do have a fondness for them. Just be aware that diesel prices are quite a bit higher than even premium gasoline......at least in our area......so that has put a bit of a damper on them for me. We recently bought a Toyota Camry Hybrid after careful consideration of the TDI.

Diesel prices go in cycles. Currently, in Chicagoland, diesel is 5-10 cents cheaper than REGULAR UNLEADED which is a bit unusual.

Another factor is the proximity to a VW dealer or a competent foreign specialist mechanic.
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by mmx1 »

I'm a happy owner of a 2012 Golf TDI. Here in California, Diesel is about on par with 87 octane, depending on the part of the year. Right now Diesel is about 10 cents cheaper; I've seen it go the other way. In Florida, it was about a 20% premium during the winter.

Fuel economy is great if you do a lot of highway driving. It still compares favorably with ICE gasoline in stop and go, but not as well as hybrids. It can be a little choppy (I have the DSG) at low speeds while the engine warms up, but I do think the DSG is one of the best mass-market automatic gearboxes available. I do enjoy driving the torquey engine much more than driving a hybrid. It's not terrifically fast, but it's a big improvement over a Prius, and that alone was worth it for me. The reviews say the Golf interior is much nicer than the Jetta, if that's a factor for you.

In the first year of ownership, it worked out great because I was paying California diesel prices and had a pretty easy route to work that leaned heavily in favor of the diesel. Time will tell if those assumptions remain over the 10 years I plan to own it.

I'm still under warranty, but I've found a few well-liked independent VW mechanics in Socal and Norcal that I plan to use.
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by TheGreyingDuke »

timmy wrote:I have a 2006 golf tdi w/100k miles.

Love it.

It has aged well.

I live in a major metro area... no issues finding folks to service it.

Not every gas station carries diesel. Look around to make sure that you have enough access points. (All highway gas stations carry diesel.)

Got through this past, very cold winter with no issues... it always started.

Get 50+ mpg on highway; low 30s on local roads.
The problem with the TDI engines started in 2009, your 2006 uses an older, more reliable, lower performance, higher emissions, engine.
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by placeholder »

If the cars are not engineered to work with US fuel (regardless of whether that fuel is lower quality) then VW shouldn't be selling them here or they should re-engineer to work with the available fuel.
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by snowman »

Ged wrote:
snowman wrote: While here in the US we generally value reliability the most, the top priority in Europe is engineering.
The US is very different from Europe in a number of respects. One of them is in the US number of vehicles and vehicle miles per capita is 40-50% higher.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... per_capita
I agree completely. And there are other differences as well, but I did not want to make my post any longer than it already was. I wanted to let OP know that the car he is considering is a well engineered car with good mileage that he will enjoy driving on a daily basis. Just don't be surprised when a big problem arrives like the one Alex described, or when you have multiple (mostly electrical) problems that make you want to sell the car to never buy VW again.
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by snowman »

placeholder wrote:If the cars are not engineered to work with US fuel (regardless of whether that fuel is lower quality) then VW shouldn't be selling them here or they should re-engineer to work with the available fuel.
Agree.
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by sambb »

I agree completely. And there are other differences as well, but I did not want to make my post any longer than it already was. I wanted to let OP know that the car he is considering is a well engineered car with good mileage that he will enjoy driving on a daily basis. Just don't be surprised when a big problem arrives like the one Alex described, or when you have multiple (mostly electrical) problems that make you want to sell the car to never buy VW again.

Yep, this hits the nail on the head
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by hicabob »

snowman wrote: While here in the US we generally value reliability the most, the top priority in Europe is engineering.
I think it's more "perceived engineering". When it comes to real "engineering" one could argue the lowly Toyota Prius with it's complex, clever, excellent performing and reliable drivetrain is far ahead of any commercially built German vehicle.
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by 02sbxstr »

placeholder wrote:If the cars are not engineered to work with US fuel (regardless of whether that fuel is lower quality) then VW shouldn't be selling them here or they should re-engineer to work with the available fuel.
VW, and other manufacturers for that matter, develop their engines based on a fuel specification. They can't just guess what "the available fuel" is going into their engines. (Google "diesel fuel specification" to see what such a spec entails.) It is not up to the manufacturers, but rather the fuel suppliers, to provide spec fuel. Out of spec fuel happens, I ran a jet engine emissions test 20 years ago that turned out to burn a fuel low relative to spec in naphthalene content. Had to retest at a cost of $200k or so. We went after the supplier to recoup the expense, but that is not practicable for those consumers buying off-spec diesel. In short, in my opinion, buy diesel from a reliable supplier (i.e., a major brand), not the cheapest you can find. The diesel efficiency will likely offset the cost.
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by JerryHester »

We have a 2011 VW Jetta Sportwagon TDI, and generally love the car. However, while my wife was driving on the freeway with our infant son, the fuel pump seized, just as reported elsewhere. The car lost all power and she had to maneuver to the shoulder. Without asking, VW replaced the pump, the injectors, and entire fuel line without any cost to us. Obviously they know they have a problem on their hands. Still a recall is preferred to my wife being terrorized on the freeway by this malfunction.

We only bought diesel from our local Shell station. It ain't the fuel. It's the high pressure pump.

Overall I love the car, and even though diesel costs more, like the fact that we are using less fuel for environmental reasons. I had a Prius and hated it. Cheap hunk of flimsy plastic. But I know plenty here in SoCal who swear by them.
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by frugalfraggle »

I have 2005 Jetta wagon TDI. It's been great. Looking for a new all-wheel drive diesel replacement. Once you get the feel for low end torque from a diesel, gasoline engines just whine and whinny.
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by Geist »

I've had a Golf TDI for the last 2 years (25k miles), and I absolutely love it. The ONLY downside is that it doesn't have horsepower to match the boatloads of torque... thus acceleration isn't all that great in a pinch without downshifting (though it's good enough day to day). I've heard that the new models of Golf TDI have a new engine with better horsepower though....

As for mileage, I've averaged about 43mpg overall... about 60% of my miles are highway. On long trips (which I take at least 4-5 times a year) it's phenomenal getting 45-48mpg. I can easily go 650-700 miles on a single tank. Even around town, I typically get about 40mpg -- the trick is to coast while in gear to slow down vs. shifting into neutral & braking. The engine all but shuts down, and your mileage goes up significantly. It's the long-distance mileage that sold me on the TDI vs. anything else. I was also considering the regular Golf, the GTI, and also the Honda Civic and Toyota Camry. Totally crossing spectrum boundaries there (hatchback vs. compact vs. economy)... but I'm absolutely thrilled with my TDI, and even 2 years later, I enjoy it every time I drive my car. I hope to have this car for 10 years or more, and fully expect that I'll get another TDI after this one.
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by placeholder »

02sbxstr wrote:VW, and other manufacturers for that matter, develop their engines based on a fuel specification. They can't just guess what "the available fuel" is going into their engines.
VW has been selling cars in the US for many decades so they should have a very good idea what the diesel fuel here is like certainly more than the consumer would and obviously VW knew enough to immediately blame the problem so I say again they should never have sold these cars here.
tjhutchi
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by tjhutchi »

I own both a 2007 Prius and a 2012 Golf TDI. I find for the way I drive that the Golf gets slightly better fuel mileage than the Prius. I'm comparing to the Prius since you mentioned comparing hybrids. I live an a rural mountain community, so I tend to drive a lot of freeway miles. I know that everyone is different so this my opinion only.
1. Driving the Prius is about as exciting as pushing a grocery cart. If you are trying to pass on a 2 lane road, the constant velocity transmission will stop your heart. As in will I survive this experience.
2. For me at 6' I find the Prius to be uncomfortable. It is not a drivers car.
3. The Prius is a heavy car and understeers and rolls into corners. Like I said, not exciting
4. Pick the Golf over the Jetta and Passat. The Golf is manufactured in Wolfsburg Germany Vs. Mexico. It has a reputation to be of a much better build quality. My understanding is that it really the same vehicle as the A3. I've owned four Audis (never again) and the fit and finish seems to be comparable.
5. For a small car with with great fuel milage the Golf is really fun to drive. It is quite and tracks the road well. Not a ton of power but it is adequate. And in comparison to the CV transmission you can downshift when needed. I hate that CV transmission in the Prius.
letsgobobby
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by letsgobobby »

placeholder wrote:
02sbxstr wrote:VW, and other manufacturers for that matter, develop their engines based on a fuel specification. They can't just guess what "the available fuel" is going into their engines.
VW has been selling cars in the US for many decades so they should have a very good idea what the diesel fuel here is like certainly more than the consumer would and obviously VW knew enough to immediately blame the problem so I say again they should never have sold these cars here.
Exactly . The issue is not only the catstrophic fuel pump failure, but the refusal of VW to accept responsibility for the problem. Some consumers, through luck or persistence or threat, have gotten VW to cover the replacement out of warranty. Others haven't. It's been VW's general lack of responsiveness to the pattern of problems which has consumers livid.

Not everyone wants an appliance for a vehicle, but most people want a vehicle that they can count on without worrying about massive, existential system failure.
pshonore
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by pshonore »

Had a 2004 Passat TDI but traded it a few years back. It was not a comfortable car for a long trip (I usually drive a Ford Expedition; yes, quite a contrast in fuel economy) Passat was not bad (about 42 mpg highway) but over 90K, little things started going wrong - Fuel filter leak, coolant flange (which took 3 days to have shipped from West Coast to East Coast - (thought VW had better parts logistics). Diesel around here (Southern New England) was about 60 -70 cents more a gallon although that has dropped recently as gas is going up. Margin is probably the price for No 2 fuel oil + the tax (50-60 cents a gallon depending on the state. And yes we did replace the timing belt and 2 CV boots as I recall.
TheOscarGuy
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by TheOscarGuy »

archman65 wrote:Any boggleheads like their Jetta, Golf or Passat TDI vehicle. I was at the NYC auto show and noticed that these cars get hybrid like mileage. I'm seriously considering getting one.
This is Bogleheads forum -- the land of Toyotas and Hondas :D
I am amazed there are so many members driving VW cars. I don't personally have experience with the vehicles, but two of my close friends have them and they have been nothing but trouble for them.
Jack
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by Jack »

I'm trying to figure how an engine repair can cost $10,000. You can buy a brand new VW TDI long block complete with injection system for about $5000. A re-built is less. Labor for an engine replacement should be no longer than one day. This is assuming the entire engine is junk, which seems unlikely.
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CMartel2
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by CMartel2 »

TheOscarGuy wrote:
archman65 wrote:Any boggleheads like their Jetta, Golf or Passat TDI vehicle. I was at the NYC auto show and noticed that these cars get hybrid like mileage. I'm seriously considering getting one.
This is Bogleheads forum -- the land of Toyotas and Hondas :D
I am amazed there are so many members driving VW cars. I don't personally have experience with the vehicles, but two of my close friends have them and they have been nothing but trouble for them.
Your mileage may vary, but a diesel engine will typically last much longer than a standard engine. See:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php? ... ostcount=3

Diesels have their pros and cons. The low end torque is really nice. They last forever. They get better gas mileage than a standard engine and are generally comparable to a hybrid--better on the interstate and worse in the city. But they are a llittle noisier, it's harder to find diesel. Diesel is more expensive. There are fewer buying options.

I have a Toyota Highlander, too, but my Jetta is a lot more fun to drive, has a lot more personality, and gets better fuel economy (than say even a Camry or a Corolla). It's just got more quirks.
TheOscarGuy
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by TheOscarGuy »

CMartel2 wrote:
Your mileage may vary, but a diesel engine will typically last much longer than a standard engine. See:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php? ... ostcount=3

Diesels have their pros and cons. The low end torque is really nice. They last forever. They get better gas mileage than a standard engine and are generally comparable to a hybrid--better on the interstate and worse in the city. But they are a llittle noisier, it's harder to find diesel. Diesel is more expensive. There are fewer buying options.

I have a Toyota Highlander, too, but my Jetta is a lot more fun to drive, has a lot more personality, and gets better fuel economy (than say even a Camry or a Corolla). It's just got more quirks.
This puzzles me. Most problems with European cars have to do with something other than engine. I imagine with Diesel, the one big component that is different is the engine, so how is it possible that suddenly the same manufacturers are more reliable when the engines are Diesel?
For instance, my last German car had a bunch of problems with water pump, radiator, and other things but never "engine". I imagine these parts are the common denominator in a Diesel powered automobile as well. How does one explain fantastically high mileages with Diesel engines?

I must confess I know little of internals of a car..
zzzz
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by zzzz »

I went ahead and bought a used 2009 tdi sportswagen with 101,000 miles on it last August. I find that I'm getting some 30-50% better fuel efficiency at a cost (MD) of $0.40 more than regular gas ($4.07 V $3.77 today) which is 7.9% more expensive to purchase. During the cold winter months (we had a very cold winter this year) I was getting 36-37 mpg and during the warmer months I am getting 40-42 mpg - this is probably 2/3 highway driving. This is significantly better over the 2009 honda accord which was getting something like 26-27 mpg with not too much difference between winter and summer. I drive about 20,000 miles per year so I will save money on the switch.

To offset the high performance fuel pump (an unfortunately named device, given it's poor performance for the 0.5% afflicted) I use a fuel additive called optilube to improve lubrication of the diesel and reduce wear and tear on the engine components.

TBH, if the gas savings are partially eaten by any extra maintenance costs then I'm ok with that. I have to replace the timing belt soon and swap out the dsg (auto transmission) fluid, but that will (hopefuelly - that's a pun) be that for another 2 years (40k miles) when the transmission fluids get swapped out again.

The key is to have a trusted tdi mechanic/shop for the big jobs and then do the everyday maintenance yourself (oil changes, filters, light bulbs, fuses etc).

Tdi club (tdiclub.com/forums) is essential reading before and after purchase. They maintain a trusted mechanic list (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=130044 by state which is very useful.

My limited understanding is due to the high compression ratio in the engine relative to a gas engine diesel engines are built much more robustly to deal with the higher pressures. The rest of the car will likely fall apart before the engine dies.

All in all I'm very happy with the car, and the space and fuel efficiency and would buy another diesel again.
cjking
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by cjking »

On the 1st of April I took delivery of my new MK 7 Golf, but not diesel as I won't be doing the mileage to justify that. I'm very happy with it. A deciding factor in choosing this over a Range Rover Evoque (costing between 50% and 100% more) was that (in the UK) the medium-spec Golf has adaptive cruise control as standard, Range Rover here decided to not even offer that as an option. I'm still getting used to the ACC, learning when it will/won't work. (I think it will work best on roads where there are well-defined lanes that people mostly stick to, rather than in stop-start traffic in more chaotic city side-roads, though I've tested it on those as well. )

I also specified park assist, which I don't really need, but I like technology and it's cool having the car steer itself into parking spaces. I used it for real for the first time on Monday evening, it did get me into a parking space faster and more precisely than I would have parallel parked by hand, so it really does work. (I thought it might just be a gimmick that wouldn't be worth using in practise.)

I don't think the MK7 Golf is on sale in the US yet, but I may be wrong.

If you're in no hurry, it's worth noting that apparently both an electric and a hybrid Golf are in the pipeline. Here's a review:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/car ... f-GTE.html
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aja8888
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by aja8888 »

I've had many diesel VW's: 2000 Jetta, 2001 Jetta, 2003 Golf, 2005 Passat, and currently a 2006 Jetta MKV. All except the 2006 had well over 200,000 on them when I sold them for a good price. Still driving the 2006 with 147,000 on it and enjoying the performance and 46 MPG, on average.

I will not buy a 2009 - up TDI until VW comes up with a long term engineered cure for the Bosch supplied fuel pump. This is even though VW is fixing these failures free gratis like it is now, even those past warranty (unless you are in Canada). I just don't want the bother of the process.

I did test drive a Prius last year and thought I was going to have a coronary when I tried to pass a car on the freeway. Where is the torque? You won't catch me or any family member of ours in one of those underpowered death traps with the CVT transmission. It also felt like I was driving a giant toaster or other home kitchen appliance.

European cars spoil you when it comes to performance and driving. Buy one, find a good independent shop, and enjoy driving.

Oh, and costs? Have a headlight changed on a Prius and see what that does to your bank account.
TRC
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Re: VW TDI Engines

Post by TRC »

VW's don't have the best reputation for reliability or low cost of repairs. That being said, my brother has the VW Jetta Sport Wagon TDI (3 years old?) and he's had no issues with it. Really nice car - VERY roomy in the front. My neighbor also drives a very old Jetta TDI (1990's?) - I think it's over 200K miles.
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