25 year old speeding ticket

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NJGAEL
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25 year old speeding ticket

Post by NJGAEL »

In 1988 while on Fed Gov't business I received a speeding ticket in NM while driving a rental car. i paid the ticket and thought that was over. I have handed in my retirement papers and personnel (Still Gov't) tells me the fine was not paid and I have to pay the fine $115 plus over $2200 in interest.

I don't have my cancelled check ( I did pay in case you are wondering) or any other proof that I paid. Anyone have any suggestions?
SimonJester
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Re: 25 year old speeding ticket

Post by SimonJester »

Was the ticket on Fed property or on some state / city road?

Could you just dispute the ticket / fine stating you paid it 25 years ago.
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Jack FFR1846
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Re: 25 year old speeding ticket

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

Can you contact the municipality/county/state where the ticket occurred and ask them for proof of payment?
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Ged
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Re: 25 year old speeding ticket

Post by Ged »

NJGAEL wrote:In 1988 while on Fed Gov't business I received a speeding ticket in NM while driving a rental car. i paid the ticket and thought that was over. I have handed in my retirement papers and personnel (Still Gov't) tells me the fine was not paid and I have to pay the fine $115 plus over $2200 in interest.

I don't have my cancelled check ( I did pay in case you are wondering) or any other proof that I paid. Anyone have any suggestions?
Do you know what jurisdiction issued the ticket? Maybe you can contact them. If they don't think it was paid they probably would have issued a bench warrant for you.
tacster
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Re: 25 year old speeding ticket

Post by tacster »

So apparently your agency paid this fine back in 1988, without notifying you, and now they want their money back plus interest. Evidently their payment was in addition to your own payment, i.e. the fine was paid twice, and the recipient simply accepted both payments. So you don't have to prove the fine was paid, you have to prove the fine was paid by YOU. Not easy in the absence of a cancelled check.

Interest of $2200 is almost a 13% per year interest rate. Seems a bit excessive. Have you discussed your options with your personnel dept? Ultimately if you can't produce proof of your payment you may be stuck, but maybe they'd agree to a reduction in interest, or some sort of repayment schedule. Good luck.
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Random Poster
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Re: 25 year old speeding ticket

Post by Random Poster »

One word: Laches.
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frugaltype
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Re: 25 year old speeding ticket

Post by frugaltype »

This sounds like the Twilight Zone. It contacting whatever municipality it was doesn't work, is there some reasonable person up in the government food chain you could talk to? There must be some sort of requirement to notify people if they have not paid a bill. One would think.
Rupert
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Re: 25 year old speeding ticket

Post by Rupert »

NJGAEL wrote:In 1988 while on Fed Gov't business I received a speeding ticket in NM while driving a rental car. i paid the ticket and thought that was over. I have handed in my retirement papers and personnel (Still Gov't) tells me the fine was not paid and I have to pay the fine $115 plus over $2200 in interest.

I don't have my cancelled check ( I did pay in case you are wondering) or any other proof that I paid. Anyone have any suggestions?
Your bank, if you can remember the name of it after all these years, will have a copy of the cancelled check on microfilm. It will cost you to get a copy of it, but you can get it.
chaz
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Re: 25 year old speeding ticket

Post by chaz »

NJGAEL wrote:In 1988 while on Fed Gov't business I received a speeding ticket in NM while driving a rental car. i paid the ticket and thought that was over. I have handed in my retirement papers and personnel (Still Gov't) tells me the fine was not paid and I have to pay the fine $115 plus over $2200 in interest.

I don't have my cancelled check ( I did pay in case you are wondering) or any other proof that I paid. Anyone have any suggestions?
Your bank can supply a copy of your check.
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kramer
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Re: 25 year old speeding ticket

Post by kramer »

Random Poster wrote:One word: Laches.
Yes! Excellent post.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laches_(equity)
an "unreasonable delay pursuing a right or claim...in a way that prejudices the [opposing] party" [1] When asserted in litigation, it is an equitable defense, or doctrine. The person invoking laches is asserting that an opposing party has "slept on its rights," and that, as a result of this delay, circumstances have changed such that it is no longer just to grant the plaintiff's original claim. Put another way, failure to assert one’s rights in a timely manner can result in a claim being barred by laches.
chaz
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Re: 25 year old speeding ticket

Post by chaz »

Rupert agrees with me ( we both were writing at the same time).
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Professor Emeritus
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Re: 25 year old speeding ticket

Post by Professor Emeritus »

OFGS this is why you go get a lawyer.. He or she can start here:


(4) Unless otherwise provided by law, administrative offset of payments under the authority of 31 U.S.C. 3716 to collect a debt may not be conducted more than 10 years after the Government's right to collect the debt first accrued, unless facts material to the Government's right to collect the debt were not known and could not reasonably have been known by the official or officials of the Government who were charged with the responsibility to discover and collect such debts. This limitation does not apply to debts reduced to a judgment.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/31/901.3
littlebird
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Re: 25 year old speeding ticket

Post by littlebird »

Ged wrote:
NJGAEL wrote:
Do you know what jurisdiction issued the ticket? Maybe you can contact them. If they don't think it was paid they probably would have issued a bench warrant for you.
True New Mexico story:

Taxpayer gets notice from State of New Mexico: "You didn't pay your income tax last year."

Taxpayer goes to file and retrieves paid check (this was back in the days when the bank sent these to you each month), makes a (black and white, this WAS way back) copy of the front and back of the check, sends it to State of New Mexico. State of New Mexico attempts to deposit black and white copy of the front of the check. Bank rejects the check as fraudulent.

Police come to Taxpayer's house to arrest Taxpayer for uttering a fraudulent check.
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: 25 year old speeding ticket

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

I heard about this on the Clark Howard show recently. Unfortunately, I don't remember him giving any easy answers about this other than to save proof of payment of tickets FOREVER since governments aren't held by a statute of limitation, are in need of money and have lousy recordkeeping.
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Steelersfan
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Re: 25 year old speeding ticket

Post by Steelersfan »

Rupert wrote:
NJGAEL wrote:In 1988 while on Fed Gov't business I received a speeding ticket in NM while driving a rental car. i paid the ticket and thought that was over. I have handed in my retirement papers and personnel (Still Gov't) tells me the fine was not paid and I have to pay the fine $115 plus over $2200 in interest.

I don't have my cancelled check ( I did pay in case you are wondering) or any other proof that I paid. Anyone have any suggestions?
Your bank, if you can remember the name of it after all these years, will have a copy of the cancelled check on microfilm. It will cost you to get a copy of it, but you can get it.
Good in theory, but in practice that bank, if he can even remember it, probably has been acquired multiple times over that period of time and it's backroom operations merged into.......... (who knows what, or where. Maybe try India?).

The chances of a microfilm record existing and being retrievable are slim.
Calm Man
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Re: 25 year old speeding ticket

Post by Calm Man »

Well you worked for the federal government and depending on the department you were in, you probably learned that you cannot threaten the government or frankly beat them if they don't want you to. You have no proof of anything. Even if you did you cannot prove that the government didn't pay it. I think I would just pay it and be done with it.
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dm200
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Re: 25 year old speeding ticket

Post by dm200 »

I would also consider contacting my Congressman (or U.S. Senator) for assistance/intervention.
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Steelersfan
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Re: 25 year old speeding ticket

Post by Steelersfan »

dm200 wrote:I would also consider contacting my Congressman (or U.S. Senator) for assistance/intervention.
That's the best idea so far.
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dm200
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Re: 25 year old speeding ticket

Post by dm200 »

Steelersfan wrote:
dm200 wrote:I would also consider contacting my Congressman (or U.S. Senator) for assistance/intervention.
That's the best idea so far.
While there is no guarantee it will work, I cannot think of any risk or downside to it. I think I would lean towards a Congressman, instead of a Senator.
pingo
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Re: 25 year old speeding ticket

Post by pingo »

Not an attorney, here, so I'm not giving legal advice. Some thoughts from my perspective:

Did you ever appear on the ticket? What I mean is, if you received a ticket I would think that you have a right to be arraigned on the charges. If you haven't, you have a right to plead Not Guilty to the underlying charge (and the failure to appear). I doubt they can prove the underlying charge after 25 years. It is my understanding that when an individual sends in a check for the ticket, the ticket itself explains that the person is waiving trial rights and pleading Not Guilty, or something to that effect. If NM never received anything, you never pleaded Guilty.

According to NM DMV:
NM DMV [url=http://www.dmv.org/nm-new-mexico/traffic-ticket-faq.php#I-just-got-ticketed-Whats-my-next-move]here[/url] wrote:What happens if I ignore my traffic ticket?

If you do not respond by the citation's appearance date, your NM driver's license will be suspended and the court may issue a bench warrant for your arrest.
Do you know if a warrant was ever issued? License suspended? How many times have you renewed your license since that time without ever being informed of the problem? Have you lived at the same address all this time, or at least kept the DMV properly apprised of your current residence? These might be ways to build a defense, or for you lawyer to build one for you since some of them might indicate the State had a record that you paid at some time, proved circumstantially. I'd contact an attorney, which should cost you less than the interest on the ticket.

Or, you might be entitled to a Public Defender if you do not consent to the court treating the Bench Warrant as an infraction. In CA, a failure to appear is a misdemeanor which entitles one to an attorney, and for which one might be appointed for the defendant, depending. In LA traffic court, the FTA is typically reduced to an infraction by an agreement between the court and the DA's office (or something like it), but also by consent of the defendant who usually wants to plead on the FTA and pay a fine. Come to think of it, the FTA is a separate charge, which presumably you'd have to plead on, and for which you may not have been advised or arraigned on, but there may be different presumptions and procedures in NM.

There might be any number of motions in your defense: failure to prosecute, serna motion or who know's what else?

The DMV link above also has a chat window ask an attorney a question. Might be worth a shot.
Last edited by pingo on Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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retiredjg
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Re: 25 year old speeding ticket

Post by retiredjg »

Something does not seem quite right here.

Are they saying you owe NM the money or that you owe the fed government the money?

How did the fed government ever become involved? Is this a garnishment? NM would have contacted you directly unless they were unable, for example if the address on the ticket was incorrect. Even then, they should have contacted your state DMV unless you didn't live in that state any more.
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TimeRunner
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Re: 25 year old speeding ticket

Post by TimeRunner »

Lots of questions, no answers from the OP yet. I'm still curious about what jurisdiction and how an old ticket found its way to fed gov retirement paperwork.
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protagonist
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Re: 25 year old speeding ticket

Post by protagonist »

Call Saul.
chaz
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Re: 25 year old speeding ticket

Post by chaz »

Or call NJGAEL. :?
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