Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to do?

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Browser
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Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to do?

Post by Browser »

I've been looking at SUVs for about a year now and can't seem to find one that pushes all my buttons. Of course, since I've had a lot of time on my hands I've really been able to look into this in detail and test drive every candidate multiple times and dig around on the internet for info. Most people don't have that much disposable time, so they just make the best decision they are able to within the constraints of time and cost that they can. That's sure what I used to do. Now that I've had the time to do all this research, I'm finding that I haven't found the "right" vehicle. Each one seems to have at least one major negative that turns me off. Wondering if anyone else has this dilemma, or if I'm the only obsessive-compulsive prospective SUV buyer out there. If not, I'd like to hear from some of my fellow OCD's as to how they've eventually decided or not decided which new vehicle to plunk their hard-earned cash down for. Looking forward to your disclosures....
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jmndu99
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by jmndu99 »

How bout you build the "right" vehicle for you
barnaclebob
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by barnaclebob »

What SUV's have you looked at and what didn't you like about them?

Do you have problems with committing in general?
livesoft
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by livesoft »

You must be waiting for that Tesla SUV, right?
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JMacDonald
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by JMacDonald »

I have a Nissan Xterra. I don't think it is perfect, but I like it. Maybe you should move on from a SUV and look at trucks as an example.
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Kosmo
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by Kosmo »

You won't find the perfect vehicle. Go with the one that has the least objectionable qualities.

Clearly you aren't in dire need to make this purchase. You can keep searching, but I think you'll just get more frustrated.
gargrund
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by gargrund »

Browser wrote:I've been looking at SUVs for about a year now and can't seem to find one that pushes all my buttons. Of course, since I've had a lot of time on my hands I've really been able to look into this in detail and test drive every candidate multiple times and dig around on the internet for info. Most people don't have that much disposable time, so they just make the best decision they are able to within the constraints of time and cost that they can. That's sure what I used to do. Now that I've had the time to do all this research, I'm finding that I haven't found the "right" vehicle. Each one seems to have at least one major negative that turns me off. Wondering if anyone else has this dilemma, or if I'm the only obsessive-compulsive prospective SUV buyer out there. If not, I'd like to hear from some of my fellow OCD's as to how they've eventually decided or not decided which new vehicle to plunk their hard-earned cash down for. Looking forward to your disclosures....
What are your must-haves?
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yatesd
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by yatesd »

SUV's are great, but they are compromises.

Choose your priorities: Space, power, MPG, ground clearance, easy in/out, off road capability, towing, high seating position, on road handling, price, gadgets, looks, etc.

Tell us your main priorities and maybe we can help advise. Alternatively, choose something other than a multi-tool and get a minivan, family car, sports car, truck, or Jeep.

Do you live in a snowy region? Nothing beats a minivan if you want a 2WD SUV. I wish every vehicle had sliding doors...
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

gargrund wrote: What are your must-haves?

There's the question to answer. People looking for an SUV often put their actual "needs" in one list and "wants" in another list and find that an SUV isn't the right answer. In general, an SUV (see consumer reports) is more gas thirsty and less safe than a similar car. I do understand that there are real reasons for an SUV if the "needs" dictate. I'll post my needs and wants. I own a Wrangler 4 door and a Subaru Crosstrek.

For the Jeep:

Must have a traditional frame to hold a Curtis snow plow. (our driveway and property would cost us $400 a snowstorm for someone else to clear it)
Must be capable of towing a 2 snowmobile trailer safely
Must hold 4 people total and groceries for the week.
Must be 4 wheel drive or all wheel drive
Must have automatic (wife doesnt drive a manual) and air conditioning.
that's pretty much it

For the Subaru:

Must have AWD (for times when we get real snowstorms and have not yet plowed our driveway)
Must have better than average clearance (to get over the snow) (Crosstrek has more clearance than a Jeep Cherokee)
Must have AC and automatic (wife's car)
Must carry 4 people and groceries
Prefer as good of gas mileage as possible. (the Crosstrek gets 35mpg in our measurements)
wants:
Would like leather and backup camera
Would like manual seats and would not like sunroof

Now.....what are your needs and wants?
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leonidas
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by leonidas »

My wife wanted a new SUV to replace our Hyundai Santa Fe. We did research for about 2 days, test drove a few different brands and bought a used Honda Pilot.
She loves it. Its a demon in the snow.
dbr
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by dbr »

On the rare occasions that I replace a vehicle (my current ride is 15 years old) the problem always seems to be there isn't anything out there that actually replaces what I have now so I have to figure out a new paradigm for what I am going to drive. Right now I am attracted to sedans with AWD and don't really want an SUV or a wagon. But my current car is spacious and allows a bicycle to be hauled in the back seat, not to mention people I carry around appreciate the space, and I can pass skis through from the trunk. No way I am racking either outside the car. Right now short of an Audi A8 or a MB S-class I can't find a sedan that is big enough, and those items are a bit out of the price range. My current car also has simple easy to use heater and radio/CD controls that can be operated without looking while wearing gloves. I haven't started looking seriously yet, but I fear the new wave in "infotainment" is going to be an ergonomic disaster for me. I do not look forward to car shopping.
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by sunnyday »

I'm in a similar boat. I especially want an SUV/CUV that drives like a sports car :) I'm going to go with a loaded 2015 Forester -- mainly for safety and reliability. I don't think it's the best looking car but I think I'll be happy with it.

I'm sure you can find the right vehicle, you just can't find the perfect vehicle. You can easily run into analysis paralysis comparing specs, features, price, etc.
NYGiantsFan
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by NYGiantsFan »

May be you have reached "Analysis paralysis".
Without that and too much time on the hand ( and taking away productive time like investment research, family time), you can continue be looking forever.
Set the deadline, plan and get it done.
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Bufflehead
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by Bufflehead »

I am in the same situation-trying to replace a 1996 Chevy Tahoe 4WD which has a drop-down tailgate, 3/4 bench front seat, and plenty of cargo room. I need inside space for bicycles, skiis, and general gear. The Japanese brands seem prone to corrosion here in the Northeast and questions of durability in terms of dealing with large potholes and ruts loom. The Subaru/CR-V solution does not seem to provide enough cargo space or more importantly, cargo weight capability. I am thinking a 2WD pickup truck with a cap and good snow tires is my best option. I am anxious to find a solution as I am concerned about being stranded sometime soon. Thanks in advance to all Bogleheads for any advice.

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Jay69
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by Jay69 »

Maybe its a case where you would rather keep your cash then buy a new vehicle?

I have this with other items and cars, I look and research for few months then latter I'm like ah screw it and just find something wrong with every thing and keep what I have as its good enough and not worth the hassle of upgrading.
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btenny
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by btenny »

I am a long time SUV guy from several different angles. I owned a Jeep CJ in 1960s and my brother owned a Scout and then a Wagoneer. We hunted and really used the off road capability. Until the Wagoneer we almost never drove our SUVS in town. Too noisy etc..

Fast forward to 2013. I still own one Jeep because it does almost everything. My 1999 Grand Cherokee is good in the big snow of the Sierras, good off road with real 4x4 performance, OK on the highway even in real snow and it tows a 5K pound boat. This summer I will use it to haul a U-Haul trailer 1000 miles. It gets 20mpg on the highway and 15 in town. BUT the backseat is only good for short rides and the lugage space is only moderate. It is only a OK road car as any speed over 60 brings out the 4x4 limits.

I also bought a 2013 Subaru Outback Limited with the 3.6L 6 cylinder engine last year. It is a great car/SUV. Probably the best SUV on the market IMO. It is inexpensive luxury SUV that is just fun to drive. It really seats four people comfortably. It has leather heated power front seats and back seat A/C and heat so going to dinner with friends is nice. It holds a ton of lugage. It has great AWD and handles good in deep snow and has enough ground clearence to go over big snow burms. It gets 27mpg on the highway and 22 mpg in town. But best of all it handles curves great and and accelerates like a sports car. I can easily pass trucks going up hill at 75 mph. So driving is fun in the mountains.

Enjoy and good luck..
Last edited by btenny on Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by SRenaeP »

Browser wrote:I've been looking at SUVs for about a year now and can't seem to find one that pushes all my buttons. Of course, since I've had a lot of time on my hands I've really been able to look into this in detail and test drive every candidate multiple times and dig around on the internet for info. Most people don't have that much disposable time, so they just make the best decision they are able to within the constraints of time and cost that they can. That's sure what I used to do. Now that I've had the time to do all this research, I'm finding that I haven't found the "right" vehicle. Each one seems to have at least one major negative that turns me off. Wondering if anyone else has this dilemma, or if I'm the only obsessive-compulsive prospective SUV buyer out there. If not, I'd like to hear from some of my fellow OCD's as to how they've eventually decided or not decided which new vehicle to plunk their hard-earned cash down for. Looking forward to your disclosures....
DH and I are actually going through the same thing right now. Two months later we still haven't come to a decision. I joked to my brother that I wish I was like the stereotypical 'dumb' buyer who can make a decision based on monthly payment and color. LOL.

-Steph
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by Browser »

If I could just combine the good features of about four different vehicles, it would be a no-brainer for me. But since I can't do that, each one of the candidates seems to have one or two things I really don't like that are killing the deal. For one it's the ride quality, road and engine noise; for another it's the blah reliability history of the brand; for another it's the mileage and premium fuel; and another it's the body style. Maybe it's a good thing they all have drawbacks and I'm not in love with any of them. Might be able to hammer out a better deal since walking away won't kill me. Maybe that's the tie-breaker. I'll buy the one that throws me a deal I can't resist. I'll just tell them upfront I'm walking unless a get a deal that makes me salivate. Hadn't thought of that. Only drawback is I don't think I can stand dealing with one dealer, let alone four different ones. Maybe just do it via email:

"Dear Sir, I am considering several different brands in addition to yours. There is at least one major drawback of each one of them, including yours, which makes me hesitant to buy. So, I've decided to buy the one with a price I can't walk away from, and I don't care which one it is. Give me the very best below-invoice price on your vehicle. This is one-shot only. I don't plan to haggle or negotiate. If your price is a true eye-popping bargain and it's the best price I receive, I'll drive over and purchase your vehicle immediately. This is a serious offer. Please contact me as soon as possible with your offer. Thank you."
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deanbrew
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by deanbrew »

The last post makes an answer even more difficult. There is no "perfect" vehicle without drawbacks. But I can't imagine living with a vehicle - for many years and hundreds or thousands of hours - I don't like because I saved a few bucks when I bought it.

Given your list of negatives, the "ride quality, road and engine noise" on one vehicle and the "mileage and premium fuel" would be constant irritations and I would probably eliminate those two. Reliability history is important, but not nearly as cut and dried as many people think, and "body style" is largely unimportant when you are inside the vehicle driving it (if I understand the objection accurately).

There, I've helped narrow your choices down by half. :wink:
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by TheOscarGuy »

Browser wrote: "Dear Sir, I am considering several different brands in addition to yours. There is at least one major drawback of each one of them, including yours, which makes me hesitant to buy. So, I've decided to buy the one with a price I can't walk away from, and I don't care which one it is. Give me the very best below-invoice price on your vehicle. This is one-shot only. I don't plan to haggle or negotiate. If your price is a true eye-popping bargain and it's the best price I receive, I'll drive over and purchase your vehicle immediately. This is a serious offer. Please contact me as soon as possible with your offer. Thank you."
This is guaranteed to give you different results based on the time of the year you ask the question! Dealer incentives/programs run, not all at the same time. What might be a good time to buy Honda may not be a good time to buy Subraru (or whatever).
Additionally its never *strictly* apples to apples comparison. For instance both have heated leather seats but *maybe* one of them takes lesser time to warm up than the other. Or the quality of leather/craftsmanship is shoddy (read: CRV!). So, even with closest match in terms of features of two separate manufacturer's trim levels, the vehicles are bound to be different.

If all dealers are willing and able to do the dealing (say all are running some programs/incentives), you will probably walk away with the *cheapest* of the bunch -- probably say a Korean manufactured vehicle. But not the best in terms of:

total value function = F(reliability, gas mileage, interior, exterior, handling, ride quality, price, etc.)

Yes it can be done. But its not going to yield the result you are hoping for. There MUST be something that you value more than other right!? Reliability, mileage ? That should give you a good indication of what value you put in that vehicle. So TO YOU, if good AWD is of more value than say, reliability/longevity of car, you will place more importance to that factor, and even if the cost comes out to be comparable with a competitor, since tht *total value* TO YOU for that vehicle is more, you will choose it.

You MUST know what YOU value most! Otherwise, all incentives equal, the approach you have outlined is guaranteed to give you a car that's cheapest of the bunch. And that is only theoretically possible, I doubt all dealers/manufacturers will put out deals all at the exact same time!
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by sls239 »

for another it's the blah reliability history of the brand;
What about the reliability of that particular model?

Your other possibility is two vehicles. My father has an old pickup out back and drives a nice full size sedan most of the time.
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Browser
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by Browser »

Ok. Appreciate the comments. I need to go back to review to determine the drawbacks that I don't think I can live with at all, if I can do that. Trouble is, it's not always that clearcut. I think poor reliability and having to mess with unexpected repairs would be one thing that would annoy me to death. During warranty the cost would probably be minimal, but not the inconvenience. After warranty, it would be intolerable for me and I tend to keep my vehicles a long time. But you never know if you're going to end up with a lemon even if it has a good reliability rating. :confused
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sunnyday
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by sunnyday »

Browser wrote: Maybe just do it via email:

"Dear Sir, I am considering several different brands in addition to yours. There is at least one major drawback of each one of them, including yours, which makes me hesitant to buy. So, I've decided to buy the one with a price I can't walk away from, and I don't care which one it is. Give me the very best below-invoice price on your vehicle. This is one-shot only. I don't plan to haggle or negotiate. If your price is a true eye-popping bargain and it's the best price I receive, I'll drive over and purchase your vehicle immediately. This is a serious offer. Please contact me as soon as possible with your offer. Thank you."
I don't think that's going to get you very far. If it was that simple, everyone could send that sort of email to dealerships and expect below invoice pricing.

Browser wrote:
Ok. Appreciate the comments. I need to go back to review to determine the drawbacks that I don't think I can live with at all, if I can do that. Trouble is, it's not always that clearcut. I think poor reliability and having to mess with unexpected repairs would be one thing that would annoy me to death. During warranty the cost would probably be minimal, but not the inconvenience. After warranty, it would be intolerable for me and I tend to keep my vehicles a long time. But you never know if you're going to end up with a lemon even if it has a good reliability rating.
You can check consumer reports for reliability. Toss out the ones with average or poor reliability. How many vehicles does that leave you with?

If you still can't decide maybe buy a bike instead? They're cheaper, more reliable and more fun to drive/ride
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

Let me ask you one question.....

Why do you need an SUV?

Cargo carrying? I used to have a Honda CRX-SI and a snowmobile trailer. I guarantee you that when leaving the furniture store, I could bring home more than even the guy in the excursion.
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Browser
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by Browser »

Jack FFR1846 wrote:Let me ask you one question.....

Why do you need an SUV?

Cargo carrying? I used to have a Honda CRX-SI and a snowmobile trailer. I guarantee you that when leaving the furniture store, I could bring home more than even the guy in the excursion.
Good question. I've been driving one and like a taller vehicle, both for traffic and getting in and out for both myself and passengers. Also like the cargo area. I've hauled more stuff in that cargo area and it has been extremely useful to me over the years. Don't think I could ever go back to a mere "car" at this point. Pretty much not considering anything but a smaller SUV. At least I have that part figured out...
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yatesd
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by yatesd »

Browser,

If you want help please provide details.
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

I'm going to offer a hybrid solution.

Subaru Crosstrek Limited.

Better ground clearance than a Jeep Cherokee, AWD, vehicle dynamic control (best vehicle I have ever driven in snow), high like an SUV, handles like a car, takes regular gas, (I average 32mpg combined), the limited version with heated leather is only $25k. It has roof racks standard for 2x4x16's. A small trailer could be added pretty easily. Wheels/tires are interchangable with Outbacks (we traded an 08 outback for ours).

If nothing else, drive one. If you don't like it, that's fine. We went to it because the outbacks got too big for us. (they get bigger every year).

Note: by hybrid, I meant the car plus a trailer or some rope to use the roofrack
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frugaltype
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by frugaltype »

Browser wrote: Good question. I've been driving one and like a taller vehicle, both for traffic and getting in and out for both myself and passengers.
How does a taller vehicle help for traffic? Vision? I rarely have a problem with my regular car unless I'm behind a truck or something with tinted windows.

Maybe it's just creaky people like me, but getting into and out of an SUV is like mountain climbing.
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by frugaltype »

dbr wrote: My current car also has simple easy to use heater and radio/CD controls that can be operated without looking while wearing gloves. I haven't started looking seriously yet, but I fear the new wave in "infotainment" is going to be an ergonomic disaster for me. I do not look forward to car shopping.
I love my 1969 Mustang. It is so simple. I also have my late Mom's 20 year old Buick, and I don't know what half the controls do, nor do I seem to need them. The newer cars are even worse. As for ergonomics, like those tiny steering wheels that mean instant backache, that seems to be for some species of which I am not a member.
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by fishnskiguy »

I only buy new and keep it for ten years. I'm also a car guy, so I'm generally pretty aware of who's making what most of the time, but I really start getting my ducks in a row a full two years before I pull the trigger for a new ride.

My current car is a 2007 Subaru Outback 2.5L turbo with leather and heated seats. It's the first car I've ever owned with a turbo, leather or bun warmers. I love it. I need decent ground clearance and all wheel drive as I drive on a lot of "soft" roads in search of Mr. trout. At the time I bought it, I knew there was nothing else out there that would better fit my needs. I don't do any city driving and get 27 mpg, tank after tank, yet I can go over an 11,000 ft. mountain pass at 65 mph with gobs of power to spare.

Now my next car is going to have to take it to the next level. In addition to everything my current car has, it must have:
Adaptive cruise control
Blind spot intervention
Active lane keeping assist
rear view camera
direct injection
at least a seven (preferably nine ) speed transmission. No CVT, they leave me cold
at least 40 mpg the way I drive

Right now the only car out there that meets my wants at under $50,000 is the Mercedes-Benz 250 GLK diesel. I'll buy it if I have to, but I'm hoping that in three years I can find what I want in a less prestigious brand.

Funny, but Mercedes- Benz cars always seemed to offer a level of snob appeal I didn't identify with.

It must be the ghost of Janis Joplin in the back of my mind singing,
"Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes -Benz
My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends
So Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes-Benz"

Chris
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Nowizard
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by Nowizard »

Sounds like reliability is a key factor. Not that anyone else would have the same experience, but a 4-Runner is very reliable. Toyota is advertising the Highlander, not the 4-Runner, according to a salesman I spoke with due to wanting people to purchase the Highlander with upscale amenities while positioning the 4-Runner more as a "real" off-road vehicle. I have a 2005 that has never been in the shop for anything other than tires and brakes with 120,000+ miles. I am not a slow driver, as a couple of tickets would attest, but it is listed as 18/22 mpg, though I get over 24 in combined city/highway driving with a 6 cylinder suv. It is the best vehicle ever for me and reliability is the foremost factor.

Tim
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by Atilla »

I hear ya. Currently driving a Hummer I plan to keep for a couple more years. After that I don't know what I'll do - it's like nothing else and no other SUV trips my trigger. I have half a mind to say screw it and get a late model used G37X when the time comes and just go in a totally different direction.
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Browser
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by Browser »

Now my next car is going to have to take it to the next level. In addition to everything my current car has, it must have:
Adaptive cruise control
Blind spot intervention
Active lane keeping assist
rear view camera
direct injection
at least a seven (preferably nine ) speed transmission. No CVT, they leave me cold
at least 40 mpg the way I drive
Why no CVT? I think they got 'em in Nissans and Infinti's and they're supposed to be pretty good, yes?
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fishnskiguy
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by fishnskiguy »

Browser wrote:
Now my next car is going to have to take it to the next level. In addition to everything my current car has, it must have:
Adaptive cruise control
Blind spot intervention
Active lane keeping assist
rear view camera
direct injection
at least a seven (preferably nine ) speed transmission. No CVT, they leave me cold
at least 40 mpg the way I drive
Why no CVT? I think they got 'em in Nissans and Infinti's and they're supposed to be pretty good, yes?
No. :twisted:

Chris
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Browser
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by Browser »

fishnskiguy wrote:
Browser wrote:
Now my next car is going to have to take it to the next level. In addition to everything my current car has, it must have:
Adaptive cruise control
Blind spot intervention
Active lane keeping assist
rear view camera
direct injection
at least a seven (preferably nine ) speed transmission. No CVT, they leave me cold
at least 40 mpg the way I drive
Why no CVT? I think they got 'em in Nissans and Infinti's and they're supposed to be pretty good, yes?
No. :twisted:

Chris
Specifics, or are you just a CVT bigot? :wink:
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deanbrew
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by deanbrew »

I have a subaru legacy with the CVT and I like it.
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gunn_show
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by gunn_show »

leonidas wrote:My wife wanted a new SUV to replace our Hyundai Santa Fe. We did research for about 2 days, test drove a few different brands and bought a used Honda Pilot.
She loves it. Its a demon in the snow.
+1 for Pilot. My '05 Pilot, bought used with 20k miles for half the sticker price, is far and away the best vehicle (and 5th honda/acura) I've owned. Tons of room for passengers and ski bags, 250hp 250tq, 4wd, leather, good stereo, high-view seating for the road, only negative being the gas (15mpg avg) but I work from home so driving is not too big a deal for me. Other than tires and oil changes, knock on wood, she's been reliable as a Honda should be.
Browser wrote:Might be able to hammer out a better deal since walking away won't kill me. Maybe that's the tie-breaker. I'll buy the one that throws me a deal I can't resist. I'll just tell them upfront I'm walking unless a get a deal that makes me salivate. Hadn't thought of that."
this is far and away the best way to negotiate, cars, jobs, etc., whenever the positioning/leverage is possible. In person is far greater effect than via email. Most sales persons are not dumb enough to engage in walk-away tactics via email because they know they lose 100% of the leverage that way. Before I bought the Pilot, I was foolishly drooling over a used BMW 550i (m5 engine :twisted: ) and pulled the walk away move, after I supposedly got the final price, and lo and behold an hour later he magically could take $5000 off the bottom line. Still did not buy the car, but you get the picture...
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inbox788
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by inbox788 »

Browser wrote:
Jack FFR1846 wrote:Let me ask you one question.....

Why do you need an SUV?

Cargo carrying? I used to have a Honda CRX-SI and a snowmobile trailer. I guarantee you that when leaving the furniture store, I could bring home more than even the guy in the excursion.
Good question. I've been driving one and like a taller vehicle, both for traffic and getting in and out for both myself and passengers. Also like the cargo area. I've hauled more stuff in that cargo area and it has been extremely useful to me over the years. Don't think I could ever go back to a mere "car" at this point. Pretty much not considering anything but a smaller SUV. At least I have that part figured out...
You're ahead of me. I can't decide between SUV or sedan (and possibly others like convertible, hybrid or EV). Currently driving 10 year old mini van, and have been contemplating changing, but can't figure out what trade offs to make. New car reliability, better gas mileage, less space, less passengers, etc. It soon goes back to new minivan, but paying more than 30 big ones for pretty much no change isn't very satisfying, and it is competing with increasing maintance and repair costs, which will eventually need to be dealt with. Despite the expected additional costs of the used van, I figure I'm saving a few hundred dollars a month being indecisive, hence adding to the procrastination.

So, do you have a short list of 2 or 3 top contenders? What are the top requirements and most troublesome issues? What so you currently drive, how old, what condition, and why not keep driving it a few more years?

The list of small SUVs is faily short. I assume Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Infiniti, and Acura models are out for now. There are several new small low end luxury models in the works that are aiming to compete with the x1 if that's of interest. Are there any brands you would completely eliminate? There's less than a dozen choices to start with, and it should be simple enough to whittle it down to a few.

Subaru forester, Honda crv, Ford escape, Jeep renegade, Chevy equinox, Toyota rav4, Nissan rogue, Hyundai Santa Fe, Mazda cx5, and a few others. Rank your top, middle and bottom third. Explain what makes you put one car at the top, while another on the bottom.

We are very lucky that we have an abundance of choices, but making a best choice is increasingly impossible. You should aim for a good enough or adequate decision, or you'll never be happy. Good luck!

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fishnskiguy
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by fishnskiguy »

Browser wrote:
fishnskiguy wrote:
Browser wrote:
Now my next car is going to have to take it to the next level. In addition to everything my current car has, it must have:
Adaptive cruise control
Blind spot intervention
Active lane keeping assist
rear view camera
direct injection
at least a seven (preferably nine ) speed transmission. No CVT, they leave me cold
at least 40 mpg the way I drive
Why no CVT? I think they got 'em in Nissans and Infinti's and they're supposed to be pretty good, yes?
No. :twisted:

Chris
Specifics, or are you just a CVT bigot? :wink:
With a CVT there is a loss of control as to where in the power band the engine will operate at any given time. The CVT does the thinking, not the driver. Usually this is not a big deal, but on those occasions when you want that control and can't have it, it is a big deal, at least to some of us. For example, 95% of my driving is mountain driving. I really, really want to be the one deciding when and how much engine braking to apply coming down a steep hill. I can't do that with a CVT.

There is a reason there is not a single high end luxury car out there with a CVT. OK, the Audi A-4 may be the exception, but the CVT is not available with AWD, and 99% of all Audi's have AWD.

Edit: Removed incorrect statement.

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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by Browser »

With a CVT there is a loss of control as to where in the power band the engine will operate at any given time. The CVT does the thinking, not the driver. Usually this is not a big deal, but on those occasions when you want that control and can't have it, it is a big deal, at least to some of us. For example, 95% of my driving is mountain driving. I really, really want to be the one deciding when and how much engine braking to apply coming down a steep hill. I can't do that with a CVT.

There is a reason there is not a single high end luxury car out there with a CVT. OK, the Audi A-4 may be the exception, but the CVT is not available with AWD, and 99% of all Audi's have AWD. In fact, I don't think anyone makes an AWD car with a CVT.
Thanks. This is an issue I just became aware of with CVT. It was pointed out that CVT might not be so great if you intend to pull a trailer, because you need engine braking for control when pulling. You are pointing out that engine braking is important in mountain driving aside from the trailer issue. I just test drove a Subaru Forester. The CVT transmission has a "Low" setting that the salesman said could be used like "downshifting" to provide some engine braking. I'm not sure if that's the case or not, because I mistrust car salespeople. So, there might be some limited transmission control with a CVT but it won't be as good as with a geared transmission. But, how about the majority of folks who don't drive in mountains or pull trailers? What is the drawback of CVT for them, especially since you will get better mileage with one (although I think the gap is getting smaller with newer 8, 9, & 10 speed geared trannys)?
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deanbrew
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by deanbrew »

My Subaru Legacy has a CVT. It is an AWD car with a CVT. It also has a "manual" mode whereby the transmission creates six virtual gear ratios. If I put it in manual, I can choose a lower "gear" with the flappy paddle and I get engine braking. I often do this when going down hill, downshifting into 5th, 4th or 3rd (indicated virtual gear) to get engine braking.

I like the CVT, especially on the highway, as it allows the engine revs to drop way down during cruising. Its turning less than 2000 RPM at 70 MPH. And, yes, I know that the new 6 and 7 (and more) speed traditional automatic transmissions have ultra-overdrive gearing to allow low RPMs on the highway, and I'm not saying a CVT is better. It's really another option. I think many people don't like the sound and behavior of a CVT because it's different and they are not accustomed to it.
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btenny
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by btenny »

Well Chris not wanting a CVT may get a lot more complicated very soon. I know I bought a 2013 model 3.6R Outback with the 5 speed aoutomatic for the good mountains performance as well. But more and more car makers are moving to CVTs and doing away with normal 4-5 speed automatics for better MPG and persformance etc. Nissan has already gone to almost 100% CVT. Toyota and Honda are moving their new small cars to CVT as well. And Subaru as of model year 2015 will have 100% CVT transmissions. Currently the 2014 model Legacy and Outback cars with the 4 cylinder engine have a CVT transmission but the 3.6R six cylinder engine cars have a 5 speed automatic that will be replaced with a CVT in 2015.

So I guess we will have to learn to like CVT. Sort of like learning to like all the extra electronics and hard seats in new cars and the giant price increases this is driving.
stbarthted
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by stbarthted »

About 10 million people are buying the Subaru Outback. I have become a believer - my daughter loves hers.

I drive a Mercedes and am spoiled.
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

The CVT in my Crosstrek has paddle shifters. As long as you would not over-rev, you can downshift with the paddles.

I doubt it's going to pull a lot of weight.
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fishnskiguy
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by fishnskiguy »

OK, OK, I probably overstated my dislike of a CVT, and must admit the last time I drove one was in 2006. I didn't realize that newer ones have a manual mode that emulates a multi speed transmission. Learn something new every day, eh?

And for Browser, there is no inherent disadvantage to a CVT, except a lot of enthusiasts say it feels like there is a pillow between the accelerator pedal and the engine. See this otherwise very favorable review of the new Suby Forrester. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JjcsQaJV1E

It's interesting that some manufactures are going to 7,8, even 9 speed trannys ( I think I read that GM and Ford are working jointly on a 9 speed) and others are going the CVT route.

Edit: Oops, wrong review link. Try this one: http://www.tflcar.com/2013/01/2014-suba ... ve-review/

Chris
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by Browser »

fishnskiguy wrote:OK, OK, I probably overstated my dislike of a CVT, and must admit the last time I drove one was in 2006. I didn't realize that newer ones have a manual mode that emulates a multi speed transmission. Learn something new every day, eh?

And for Browser, there is no inherent disadvantage to a CVT, except a lot of enthusiasts say it feels like there is a pillow between the accelerator pedal and the engine. See this otherwise very favorable review of the new Suby Forrester. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JjcsQaJV1E

It's interesting that some manufactures are going to 7,8, even 9 speed trannys ( I think I read that GM and Ford are working jointly on a 9 speed) and others are going the CVT route.

Edit: Oops, wrong review link. Try this one: http://www.tflcar.com/2013/01/2014-suba ... ve-review/

Chris
Unfortunately, the new Forester with CVT doesn't have the paddle shifters so you are all-CVT all-the-time. Some have lamented this, since the Forester tends to be a Swiss Army knife vehicle for many. Not sure you will want to hook up your lo-boy trailer to this one if you plan to leave the flat country.
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by Browser »

Also, geared transmissions are increasing in technological complexity to up the mileage figures. Many vehicles with auto trannys have 8, 9, 10 gears, with the top gears being overdrive that offers boosted highway mileage (the city mileage is still about the same and worse than CVT). The shifting between all those gears is managed by on-board computer firmware, so you have to ask yourself how all this rube goldberg stuff is going to hold up over time. Honda uses variable-cylinder management (VCM) technology with their V-6 engines to shut down 2 or 3 cylinders during highway cruising to boost mileage -- affecting Acuras, Pilot, Odyssey vehicles in particular. I've been reading that lots of people have been experience problems such as hesitation, surge, and vibration at speeds in the 40-55 mph range that apparently has been traced to the VCM. Believe there has even been a class-action suit about it. So--- geared transmission vehicles are not without their problems. Maybe that's why I hear more makers such as Honda may be going to CVT to increase their mileage figures; might be the lesser evil. Coming to a theatre near you soon....

Edit: I googled info about the Honda V-6 engine problem. There was a class action lawsuit that Honda settled and is compensating owners of these vehicles equipped with the V-6 with VCM -- 2008-2012 Honda Accord; 2008-2013 Honda Odyssey; 2009-2013 Honda Pilot; 2010-2011 Honda Accord Crosstour; and 2012 Honda Crosstour equipped with a 6-cylinder engine with Variable Cylinder Management (“VCM-2”).

Apparently, the same engine is in Acuras too, so I'm probably not gettin' one of these until I hear the "all-clear" signal.

http://settlement-claims.com/enginemisfire/
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by fishnskiguy »

Browser wrote:Also, geared transmissions are increasing in technological complexity to up the mileage figures. Many vehicles with auto trannys have 8, 9, 10 gears, with the top gears being overdrive that offers boosted highway mileage (the city mileage is still about the same and worse than CVT). The shifting between all those gears is managed by on-board computer firmware, so you have to ask yourself how all this rube goldberg stuff is going to hold up over time. Honda uses variable-cylinder management (VCM) technology with their V-6 engines to shut down 2 or 3 cylinders during highway cruising to boost mileage -- affecting Acuras, Pilot, Odyssey vehicles in particular. I've been reading that lots of people have been experience problems such as hesitation, surge, and vibration at speeds in the 40-55 mph range that apparently has been traced to the VCM. Believe there has even been a class-action suit about it. So--- geared transmission vehicles are not without their problems. Maybe that's why I hear more makers such as Honda may be going to CVT to increase their mileage figures; might be the lesser evil. Coming to a theatre near you soon....

Edit: I googled info about the Honda V-6 engine problem. There was a class action lawsuit that Honda settled and is compensating owners of these vehicles equipped with the V-6 with VCM -- 2008-2012 Honda Accord; 2008-2013 Honda Odyssey; 2009-2013 Honda Pilot; 2010-2011 Honda Accord Crosstour; and 2012 Honda Crosstour equipped with a 6-cylinder engine with Variable Cylinder Management (“VCM-2”).

Apparently, the same engine is in Acuras too, so I'm probably not gettin' one of these until I hear the "all-clear" signal.

http://settlement-claims.com/enginemisfire/
I'm not a fan of VCM either. I strikes me as bean counter's solution to an engineering problem. I'm not wild about auto stop/start either, but at least cars with it all have an override button to disable it.

I'm firmly convinced that the road to good mileage is small, direct injected, turbocharged engines (Ford, Subaru, all the German cars, and soon Volvo). Even better by a whole lot are direct injected turbo diesels (all German manufacturers offer at least one). Hopefully, more are on the way.

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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by btenny »

Browser you will find steering issues with some of the Subaru Outback 2010-2011 models as well. So be careful if you shop for a used one. That is why I moved to the new 2013 model with the 3.6R engine. It is much quieter and has a lot more pep and drives wonderful in turns versus the 4 banger. But it gets slightly worse MPG. I also drove the new Forester and the Crosstek and did not like either as they only come with the 4 cylinder engine and more road and engine noise versus the Outback.

I also liked the Nissan Murano for comfort and styling and performance. It is more expensive than the Outback and does not have as much cargo space but is better looking per my wife. It also gets worse MPG than the Outback. There are also issues with the Murano AWD CVT/transfer case. So be careful if you are going to use it for lots of AWD or any kind of towing stuff.

The Honda CRV is also nice but only comes with a small 4 cylinder engine. IMO it is noisy and has very light weight AWD stuff that breaks easily. I liked the feel of the car but did not like the noise or slow pick up.

When we were shopping the Ford Escape was brand new and few were available and prices were ultra high versus what was included. So we did not shop that car. Likewise we did not find the Hundai or Kia or Mazda SUVs to our liking for various reasons. But now newer models of these SUVs have come along and may be better.

So shop around and see what you like. There are tons of candidates. I know I sure like my Outback and it is great in the mountains.
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Re: Want to buy but can't find the "right" vehicle - what to

Post by roymeo »

What's the main purpose of the vehicle? Driving conditions? Weather? Cargo needs? Other vehicles? Max distance to travel? Fuel restrictions? Want vs. Need?


---
OT:

Living in a dense urban environment with no snow, I find it odd that people seem to have a paucity of imagination when considering their options. Probably don't need a second giant SUV for taking 1 kid to school, etc. Or at least the guy with the 2 kid seats in his BMW motorcycle sidecar dropping them off at the immersion Italian school across the street didn't seem to think so. There's more out there than the biggest one sitting on the sales lot: Pocket car, Smart car, NEV, Mini, golf-cart, etc. etc.

Obviously you're looking for an SUV, so you must have a bit of unpaved, snowy drive to navigate with football gear.

You're looking for the "right" vehicle, maybe I'm not OT for asking what the basis of "ton+ SUV" being what a vehicle has got to be.

If you've already done all that and this really is the most appropriate or just plain 'what you want period', I apologize for any confusion.
Last edited by roymeo on Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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