Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

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OnFire
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Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by OnFire »

I took the plunge. My wife's 2006 VW Jetta 2.0T needed ~$3,000 in work in the last three months. The airbag clock spring need to be replaced, the purge valve needed to be replaced, the driver door wiring harness needed to be replaced, the battery needed to be replaced, it needed a major tune-up, and there are problems looming. the DSG transmission was shifting weird. It slammed into gear while downshifting, then mysteriously stopped. It needs a timing belt, the sun roof opens and closes by itself of no reason, and I've had the car in six times and basically had the entire coolant system replaced. The low coolant light STILL goes off. I had to have the headliner replaced for $300, and the replacement looks terrible. The last straw was two weeks ago. After spending $600 to get the door wiring harness replaced, she drove it to the Toyota dealership where the check engine light came on. (We told them it went off three days prior, they couldn't find the cause during the visit.)

I had to finance the purchase, but was unwilling to pour money into what has become a giant hassle and money pit. The car only has 70K miles on it. The dealership beat my creit union rates. I got 72 months at 2.69% with no prepayment penalty.

After seeing how little the Camrys and Accords depreciate in the first three years, we decided to go with the Accord. The Hybrid was $3K more, but we figure we will save almost $80-100 a month in fuel, since her Jetta got 23 MPG city and required premium fuel. The Accord Hybrid is rated at 50 mpg city/45 hwy and takes regular. We drive 90%+ city driving, living in Chicago. We plan on keeping it at least 10 years and got the extended warranty out to 8 years/100K miles, primarily because it is a brand new model and the hybrid components would be expensive to replace.

The Accord is much larger inside. The trunk is smaller due to the battery, but very usable. We got the EX-L model, and love all the tech stuff.

Just wondering what everyone else thought of the car. And if you would have done the same...
Last edited by OnFire on Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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in_reality
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by in_reality »

Did you get the passenger-mounted turning camera that shows the blind spot when turning left? I wonder how it works. Wait one review says it shows the right side and they want it on the left.

Seems like a great car...
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Hexdump
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by Hexdump »

I am also curious as to how this works out for you.
I like Honda a lot and the Accord especially.

Isn't this the 1st year for a hybrid for Honda ?
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by pointyhead »

I'm interested in this car also. I looked at one on the dealer lot a few months back. Looks like a great Honda Product. We purchased a Accord Hybrid in 2006 and we still have it. Our hybrid is much different than yours with a 257 horsepower V6 that gets about 23/40 mpg city/hwy. We didn't purchase it for the mileage but its been a very reliable car over the years. Recently we have started having problems with the hybrid battery which thus far has been taken care of under warranty. It's soon going to be out of warranty so we may be in the market for another car. Best of luck with your purchase!
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by countofmc »

in_reality wrote:Did you get the passenger-mounted turning camera that shows the blind spot when turning left? I wonder how it works. Wait one review says it shows the right side and they want it on the left.

Seems like a great car...
It shows the right (passenger) side blind spot. It activates when you turn on the right turn signal, or you can press a button to activate it as well. I believe Honda's explanation for why it doesn't activate for the left (Driver) side blind spot is that since the monitor is on the center console, they don't want the driver looking towards his/her right to see the view of something that's happening to their left. Honda thinks this may be disorienting to the driver, kinda makes sense.

I don't own an Accord (well I do but an older one), but took one of the newer ones (V6 Touring model) for a lengthy test drive during an auto show where a Honda rep explained all this stuff to me. Really cool car.
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matjen
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by matjen »

Alex on Autos...My favorite online reviewer gave it high marks. He does very, very thorough reviews. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUPUevQN ... 7qTKKgIApg
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by billjohnson »

OnFire wrote:Just wondering what everyone else thought of the car.
Honda knocked this one out of the park! Awesome choice...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2GirLWtH0M
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by fishnskiguy »

I'm a car guy and a certifiable engineer. :D

In my opinion the future of high mileage cars for the foreseeable future lies in turbo charged, common rail direct injection diesels, NOT battery assisted gas hybrids. All my hardnosed engineer friends agree.

When you have to replace that battery in seven years you might agree.

I do wish you luck.

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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by investor »

I just sold my 2001 ACURA 3.2 TL and bought a 2014 ACCORD V6 EX-L. Not a Hybrid. I can concur with the mirror comments. Passenger side ONLY for dead spots. The new Accord seems just like the 13 year old ACURA I just sold. Great cars. Plenty of electronic gadgets to learn about.

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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by freddie »

Why would you want to buy a car that gets like 1/3 lower MPG (most are ~30 in the city at best compared to 45+ the accord) while paying for more expensive fuel?:)

The battery warranty is 7 years Just because a warranty is up, doesn't mean that you need to replace it. The battery tends to be good to 150-200k/miles in existing hybrids. And it it needs to be replaced we are talking a 1500 item not the 10k that was estimated 10 years ago. who the heck knows what the cost will be in another 7.

I am not sure I would feel comfortable with a hybrid as a 20 year car (there is not much track record and they are very complex) but so far they have performed pretty well in the reliability game over the past 15 or so years.

fishnskiguy wrote:I'm a car guy and a certifiable engineer. :D

In my opinion the future of high mileage cars for the foreseeable future lies in turbo charged, common rail direct injection diesels, NOT battery assisted gas hybrids. All my hardnosed engineer friends agree.

When you have to replace that battery in seven years you might agree.

I do wish you luck.

Chris
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by letsgobobby »

fishnskiguy wrote:I'm a car guy and a certifiable engineer. :D

In my opinion the future of high mileage cars for the foreseeable future lies in turbo charged, common rail direct injection diesels, NOT battery assisted gas hybrids. All my hardnosed engineer friends agree.

When you have to replace that battery in seven years you might agree.

I do wish you luck.

Chris
There are very few reports of catastrophic Prius battery failures, and many reports of Priuses going 200k+ miles and 10+ years with no battery problems whatsoever.

I'm not opposed to diesels, but a well done gas hybrid has been a reliable and long lasting vehicle for most.
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by mortal »

@ fishinskiguy

Yeah, I have to disagree with you as well. For the Toyota pruis, it would seem that they over engineered the battery pack. Consumer reports tested a ten year old prius a while back, and found no real loss in performance or effeciency.

Automakers are incrementally improving IC engines, to the point where a mazda 6 or altima can now get around 40 mpg out of a mid size sedan, vs the 42 mpg jetta (not to mention the diesel is more expensive).

That's not to say that I don't like diesels (torque! :P ). I wish we had more in the US, but as it is they are few and far between.
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by billjohnson »

fishnskiguy wrote:I'm a car guy. In my opinion the future of high mileage cars for the foreseeable future lies in turbo charged, common rail direct injection diesels
I guess if depends on one's definition of "high mileage". If your talking about 500k-1000k, then i would agree...as diesels can routinely go past 500,000 if properly maintained...and many have broken the 1 million mile mark!! As far as the rest of the drive train, etc lasting 1000k...
fishnskiguy wrote:When you have to replace that battery in seven years you might agree.
In my opinion, to suggest that the accord's battery will have to be replaced at seven years is simply ridiculous.
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by ray.james »

I am also looking at this car to see if the mileage is worth the cost.
I am torn between accord and Mazda6. Although I am atleast 4-6 months away from car purchase.
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by carolinaman »

i bought a Camry hybrid 3 months ago. I bought the LE model without all the frills. OTD price (including sales tax, registration, etc) was around $24k. It consistently gets around 40 mph in mix of surburban and highway driving. It takes some getting use to the battery. A couple of times I have tried to exit car with it still running. I have driven Toyotas for more than 30 years, usually getting 150K to 200K miles before buying another car. I am very pleased with the hybird and hope to have it for a long time.

FWIW, I also got a price for Camry LE without the Hybrid. Same features as the one I bought and it was $3k less. Interestingly, the dealer seemed to be trying to sell me the non hybrid even though it was less money.
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by matjen »

fishnskiguy wrote:I'm a car guy and a certifiable engineer. :D

In my opinion the future of high mileage cars for the foreseeable future lies in turbo charged, common rail direct injection diesels, NOT battery assisted gas hybrids. All my hardnosed engineer friends agree.

When you have to replace that battery in seven years you might agree.

I do wish you luck.

Chris
I kind of agree with this opinion UNLESS you live in an urban environment. In City driving a hybrid's mileage is far superior. This battery stuff seems to me way overblown. Here in Chicago you see more Prius taxis than any other type at this point. If hybrids can do taxi work than I think they will be fine. Having said that (and the new Accord and the more expensive less mileage-y hybrids are the exception), about every second in a turbo diesel will be a more enjoyable driving experience. If I lived in the burbs or the stix I wouldn't even consider a hybrid.
Last edited by matjen on Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by pennstater2005 »

letsgobobby wrote:
fishnskiguy wrote:I'm a car guy and a certifiable engineer. :D

In my opinion the future of high mileage cars for the foreseeable future lies in turbo charged, common rail direct injection diesels, NOT battery assisted gas hybrids. All my hardnosed engineer friends agree.

When you have to replace that battery in seven years you might agree.

I do wish you luck.

Chris
There are very few reports of catastrophic Prius battery failures, and many reports of Priuses going 200k+ miles and 10+ years with no battery problems whatsoever.

I'm not opposed to diesels, but a well done gas hybrid has been a reliable and long lasting vehicle for most.
And not to mention the fact that diesel, at least in my area, is fast approaching $5/gallon.
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by pointyhead »

In my opinion, to suggest that the accord's battery will have to be replaced at seven years is simply ridiculous.
I have a different hybrid and most likely a different battery, we have the 2006 accord hybrid, the hybrid battery has been replaced twice in 8 years. Fortunately, it has been under warranty. It goes out this year and since I understand it to be expensive to replace we may consider another car. Altogether though, it has been a great car and I would purchase it again.
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by angelescrest »

fishnskiguy wrote: In my opinion the future of high mileage cars for the foreseeable future lies in turbo charged, common rail direct injection diesels, NOT battery assisted gas hybrids. All my hardnosed engineer friends agree.
So I'm curious why you say only diesels? Mazda's Skyactiv engine is turbocharged, but non diesel, and so far has been performing (and selling) extremely well with great mpgs.
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by cherijoh »

Hexdump wrote:I am also curious as to how this works out for you.
I like Honda a lot and the Accord especially.

Isn't this the 1st year for a hybrid for Honda ?
Honda has had a Civic hybrid for at least a few years - I looked at one in 2010. I ended up with the Ford Fusion Hybrid.
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by LAlearning »

boroc7 wrote:So I'm curious why you say only diesels? Mazda's Skyactiv engine is turbocharged, but non diesel, and so far has been performing (and selling) extremely well with great mpgs.
Skyactiv is not turbocharged. The CR is much too high for added boost. The engine would probably detonate itself. However it does have direct injection, is this what you meant? Very different.

Also they have a diesel....
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by matjen »

LAlearning wrote:
boroc7 wrote:So I'm curious why you say only diesels? Mazda's Skyactiv engine is turbocharged, but non diesel, and so far has been performing (and selling) extremely well with great mpgs.
Skyactiv is not turbocharged. The CR is much too high for added boost. The engine would probably detonate itself. However it does have direct injection, is this what you meant? Very different.

Also they have a diesel....
Just not in the US...yet.
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by jimb_fromATL »

fishnskiguy wrote:I'm a car guy and a certifiable engineer. :D

In my opinion the future of high mileage cars for the foreseeable future lies in turbo charged, common rail direct injection diesels, NOT battery assisted gas hybrids. All my hardnosed engineer friends agree.

When you have to replace that battery in seven years you might agree.

I do wish you luck.

Chris
Battery life and expense IS a major problem. You don't buy a hybrid to save money -- if you know how to do the math.

Toyota and presumably others have gotten around the life expectancy problem in their hybrids for the time being by severely limiting the charge/discharge cycles to a fraction of the battery's capacity. Toyota does guarantee the battery for a long time, and their limits on the battery cycling have made them last through the warranty period, but they mention that the life of the battery is also considered "the life" of the car, or vice-versa.

Furthermore, even Toyota doesn't know how much longer the batteries will last after 8 to 10 years -- where age alone will become a factor--because there aren't all that many Prii in the US that are over 8 to 10 years old. But what is known is that when the battery does have to be replaced, it is still very expensive. Luckily, not anywhere the $12K it was for a Prius in 2002, but apparently still several thousand or more for a new one. And there are a lot of other components in a hybrid that will be very expensive when they eventually have to be replaced.

So at least for Toyota, and maybe for Honda, it's a safe buy if you get rid of it within the factory guaranteed life expectancy of the battery. But that makes keeping a hybrid past the warranty period very risk, and makes a used hybrid a potentially very, very bad buy.

(I've already seen a number of Honda's first hybrid model sitting in the weeds behind used car dealer offices with bad batteries or other expensive components that are bad, but which would cost more than the car is worth to replace, and a few of the earlier Prii with major problems avdvertised for sale for a song.)

The initial price of the Chevy Volt had been predicted to be about half of what it turned out to be because the hoped-for breakthrough in battery technology and cost didn't happen. And Nissan and others are already having problems with both range and battery life not being what they hoped -- and advertised-- in plug-in all-electric models.

Here's the formula applicable:

Image

The "Then a miracle occurs" formula found here was a cartoon in New Yorker magazine several decades ago. GM was using this equation in their planning for the Volt, and the future of all-electric plug-in cars and hybrids still depends on it being true.

On the other hand, it will probably be cheaper even having to replace the battery in a Toyota or Honda hybrid for many thousands of dollars in maybe 8 to 10 years than the usual costs of maintenance and repairs to keep a VW, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Volvo, or Land Rover (and maybe a Mini-Cooper) running for the same time period.

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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by jimb_fromATL »

pointyhead wrote:
In my opinion, to suggest that the accord's battery will have to be replaced at seven years is simply ridiculous.
I have a different hybrid and most likely a different battery, we have the 2006 accord hybrid, the hybrid battery has been replaced twice in 8 years. Fortunately, it has been under warranty. It goes out this year and since I understand it to be expensive to replace we may consider another car. Altogether though, it has been a great car and I would purchase it again.
As a matter of curiosity, if you consider a premium-priced car that has had a major, very expensive component fail twice in 8 years to be a "great" car, what would you consider to be a "bad" car?

... and why would would you consider keeping it after the warranty runs out? ... or buy another one?

jimb
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by jeff1949 »

johnep wrote:i bought a Camry hybrid 3 months ago. I bought the LE model without all the frills. OTD price (including sales tax, registration, etc) was around $24k. It consistently gets around 40 mph in mix of surburban and highway driving. It takes some getting use to the battery. A couple of times I have tried to exit car with it still running. I have driven Toyotas for more than 30 years, usually getting 150K to 200K miles before buying another car. I am very pleased with the hybird and hope to have it for a long time.

FWIW, I also got a price for Camry LE without the Hybrid. Same features as the one I bought and it was $3k less. Interestingly, the dealer seemed to be trying to sell me the non hybrid even though it was less money.
I bought a 2012 Camry Hybrid LE and have had the same results. I think the Honda Hybrid costs significantly more than the $24k we paid but has more options.

By my calculations I believe the Hybrid will more than pay for the extra $3k over the ordinary LE in fuel savings plus I like the idea of going "green" at least to some extent.

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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by hicabob »

jimb_fromATL wrote:
Toyota and presumably others have gotten around the life expectancy problem in their hybrids for the time being by severely limiting the charge/discharge cycles to a fraction of the battery's capacity. Toyota does guarantee the battery for a long time, and their limits on the battery cycling have made them last through the warranty period, but they mention that the life of the battery is also considered "the life" of the car, or vice-versa.

I have read that Toyota charges to about 80% capacity and discharges to 20%. To Toyota's credit I don't think this charging algorithm was well known (or known at all?) prior to the Prius. Another factor in the Prius economy is that they use an "Atkinson cycle " engine rather than the traditional "Otto cycle" engine. CR claims Prius is the least expensive car to own for someone that does a decent mileage.
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by letsgobobby »

jimb_fromATL wrote: Battery life and expense IS a major problem. You don't buy a hybrid to save money -- if you know how to do the math.

Toyota and presumably others have gotten around the life expectancy problem in their hybrids for the time being by severely limiting the charge/discharge cycles to a fraction of the battery's capacity. Toyota does guarantee the battery for a long time, and their limits on the battery cycling have made them last through the warranty period, but they mention that the life of the battery is also considered "the life" of the car, or vice-versa.

Furthermore, even Toyota doesn't know how much longer the batteries will last after 8 to 10 years -- where age alone will become a factor--because there aren't all that many Prii in the US that are over 8 to 10 years old. But what is known is that when the battery does have to be replaced, it is still very expensive. Luckily, not anywhere the $12K it was for a Prius in 2002, but apparently still several thousand or more for a new one. And there are a lot of other components in a hybrid that will be very expensive when they eventually have to be replaced.

So at least for Toyota, and maybe for Honda, it's a safe buy if you get rid of it within the factory guaranteed life expectancy of the battery. But that makes keeping a hybrid past the warranty period very risk, and makes a used hybrid a potentially very, very bad buy.

(I've already seen a number of Honda's first hybrid model sitting in the weeds behind used car dealer offices with bad batteries or other expensive components that are bad, but which would cost more than the car is worth to replace, and a few of the earlier Prii with major problems avdvertised for sale for a song.)

...

On the other hand, it will probably be cheaper even having to replace the battery in a Toyota or Honda hybrid for many thousands of dollars in maybe 8 to 10 years than the usual costs of maintenance and repairs to keep a VW, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Volvo, or Land Rover (and maybe a Mini-Cooper) running for the same time period.

jimb
The reality is battery life has NOT been a major problem for the Prius line, which has sold in the US for thirteen years. So all of your predictions are not occurring in real life.

Let's say one only gets 10 years and 200k miles out of their Hybrid, averaging 50 mpg instead of 33 for a similar IC vehicle (maybe it's 35 mpg, but I'm keeping the math simple). That's 1/3 less gas that a Prius is using, which at $3.75 per gallon is $3.75 saved per 100 miles driven or $7500 over the life of the vehicle. New Prius batteries currently cost less than half that. And many Priuses have gone more than 200k miles, up to 300k miles or more. Bottom line: potential for hybrid battery replacement does NOT make a hybrid cost ineffective.
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by Valuethinker »

jimb_fromATL wrote:

Furthermore, even Toyota doesn't know how much longer the batteries will last after 8 to 10 years -- where age alone will become a factor--because there aren't all that many Prii in the US that are over 8 to 10 years old.
jimb
But there are Priuses (Prii?) in Japan over 8 to 10 years old? So that might give them a pretty good clue? BTW it can be -20C in Japan in winter and +35 and humid in summer, so they also have a harsh climate.
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by Valuethinker »

billjohnson wrote:
fishnskiguy wrote:I'm a car guy. In my opinion the future of high mileage cars for the foreseeable future lies in turbo charged, common rail direct injection diesels
I guess if depends on one's definition of "high mileage". If your talking about 500k-1000k, then i would agree...as diesels can routinely go past 500,000 if properly maintained...and many have broken the 1 million mile mark!! As far as the rest of the drive train, etc lasting 1000k...
That diesel engine in your VW Golf is *not* the same sort of beast that ran 500k-1m km (or miles). I wouldn't count on a VW Golf or its diesel comperes living anything like as long.
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by sambb »

If the battery is an issue in a toyota or honda, then it really devalues the Tesla conceptually. Who would want to buy a hybrid on the used market after 7 years? Well, actually, the prices are decent. Hence, the free market is telling us that the battery issue may not be a real issue. They last, if i consider the prius to be one data point.

Hybrids are great, and the price is reasonable. Sure a regular engine is cheaper. But for city driving, the MPG is amazing. Highway has less of an overall effect on savings.

I was driven in a camry hybrid recently for an urban trip via stoplights and traffic. The car got >70 mpg.
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by hicabob »

Valuethinker wrote:
billjohnson wrote:
fishnskiguy wrote:I'm a car guy. In my opinion the future of high mileage cars for the foreseeable future lies in turbo charged, common rail direct injection diesels
I guess if depends on one's definition of "high mileage". If your talking about 500k-1000k, then i would agree...as diesels can routinely go past 500,000 if properly maintained...and many have broken the 1 million mile mark!! As far as the rest of the drive train, etc lasting 1000k...
That diesel engine in your VW Golf is *not* the same sort of beast that ran 500k-1m km (or miles). I wouldn't count on a VW Golf or its diesel comperes living anything like as long.
Agreed - my UPS driver said the diesel motors in their trucks often go a half million miles before getting swapped out. I used to have an old Jetta diesel (first gen non-turbo model) that had low oil pressure (worn out crank bearings) at 100k miles before I dumped it.
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by fishnskiguy »

hicabob wrote:
Valuethinker wrote:
billjohnson wrote:
fishnskiguy wrote:I'm a car guy. In my opinion the future of high mileage cars for the foreseeable future lies in turbo charged, common rail direct injection diesels
I guess if depends on one's definition of "high mileage". If your talking about 500k-1000k, then i would agree...as diesels can routinely go past 500,000 if properly maintained...and many have broken the 1 million mile mark!! As far as the rest of the drive train, etc lasting 1000k...
That diesel engine in your VW Golf is *not* the same sort of beast that ran 500k-1m km (or miles). I wouldn't count on a VW Golf or its diesel comperes living anything like as long.
Agreed - my UPS driver said the diesel motors in their trucks often go a half million miles before getting swapped out. I used to have an old Jetta diesel (first gen non-turbo model) that had low oil pressure (worn out crank bearings) at 100k miles before I dumped it.
My next door neighbor's son is driving the family's hand me down VW Jetta diesel. He has 400K miles on it and his only beef with it is it won't start at 10 below zero Fahrenheit. But I will agree that a car diesel generally won't go 500K like most commercial diesels, but carefully driven they will far outlast a comparable gas engine.

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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by hicabob »

fishnskiguy wrote:
hicabob wrote:
Valuethinker wrote:
billjohnson wrote:
fishnskiguy wrote:I'm a car guy. In my opinion the future of high mileage cars for the foreseeable future lies in turbo charged, common rail direct injection diesels
I guess if depends on one's definition of "high mileage". If your talking about 500k-1000k, then i would agree...as diesels can routinely go past 500,000 if properly maintained...and many have broken the 1 million mile mark!! As far as the rest of the drive train, etc lasting 1000k...
That diesel engine in your VW Golf is *not* the same sort of beast that ran 500k-1m km (or miles). I wouldn't count on a VW Golf or its diesel comperes living anything like as long.
Agreed - my UPS driver said the diesel motors in their trucks often go a half million miles before getting swapped out. I used to have an old Jetta diesel (first gen non-turbo model) that had low oil pressure (worn out crank bearings) at 100k miles before I dumped it.
My next door neighbor's son is driving the family's hand me down VW Jetta diesel. He has 400K miles on it and his only beef with it is it won't start at 10 below zero Fahrenheit. But I will agree that a car diesel generally won't go 500K like most commercial diesels, but carefully driven they will far outlast a comparable gas engine.

Chris
I got that one used with about 50K on it so the relatively early impending failure may have been due to infrequent oil changes in the first half of the engines life. It was a nice car other than being the slowest thing on the road.
Louis Winthorpe III
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by Louis Winthorpe III »

sambb wrote:
I was driven in a camry hybrid recently for an urban trip via stoplights and traffic. The car got >70 mpg.
That's great. Far, far in excess of what the manufacturer claims.
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OnFire
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by OnFire »

I love the VW Passat diesel. I would have definitely stepped up from the Jetta to the Passat if the Jetta hadn't been so ridiculously unreliable. It got to the point where the service manager at the VW dealership knew me by name, and remarked, "Yeah, You guys have had a LOT of problems with that car." I realize that on average, most of the VWs are around or slightly above average in reliability, but I couldn't go from having a VW with a folder two inches thick with repair bills to another VW. The only other family sedan with a diesel engine is the Cruze, which is significantly smaller than the Accord or Passat. I think the Mazda 6 is coming out with one, but it's not yet available.

We looked at the Camry, which was slightly cheaper, but we both thought the Accord was better riding and better looking, and it had that magical 50 MPG on the sticker. The Camry was something like 43/39, so the Accord was about 15-20% more efficient. The Prius is too small for a family of five and I don't like it's styling. It makes a statement I don't really want to make.

I really wanted to get a Fusion Hybrid, but I am a union guy, and while I would have preferred a UAW car, there apparently isn't a hybrid that's made in America in a UAW shop. The Fusion engine is apparently made in Spain, and the whole car is assembled in Mexico. The domestic content of the Accord was 70%, (Fusion, less than 50%) and they are assembled in Ohio, albeit not in a fully union shop. The back seat was much tighter on the fusion, and Consumer Reports states that they have been about 40% less reliable than the average car, while most Accords have been 40% more reliable.

It does have the back-up camera and the blind spot camera system that turns on when you use the right turn signal. It would have been nice to be able to only have it turn on at speeds above ten miles an hour. It's either on or off. It's a little distracting to have the patch of grass behind me come up on the 8" dash monitor when waiting to turn right at a stop light.

If I can get 10 years and 120,000 miles out of this car, I will be very happy. I've had rotten luck with my last three cars, the Jetta, a BMW 335i, and full-size Chevy Blazer.

Overall, if I get 120,000 miles out of it, and the combined rating is 47mpg, and regular gas averages $4 over the next ten years, I will have spent $10,200 in fuel costs.

The Jetta, using premium at $4.50 a gallon and getting a combines 27 mpg would have cost me $20,000 in fuel, saving us nearly $10K in fuel, which more than makes up for the added cost. It will still be coming out ahead if the battery pack costs, say $2-3K, and gets me out to 180-200K miles. From what little I know about batteries, I think the lithium-ion battery pack in this car should last significantly longer the the NiMH used in most other hybrids.

I also have to say, being a firefighter/paramedic, I really like the idea of sending as few dollars to the middle east (where the terrorists who want to kill me live) or Venuzela (where the dictators rule) as I possibly can. I realize that only about 20% of our fuel comes from there, but it partially an ecological and social choice. Maybe by the time I get rid of this car, the plug-in diesel hybrid that is fueled my midwestern wind turbines, nuclear energy and bio-diesel will be ready for prime time.
Where are all the customers yachts? | | “The most powerful force in the Universe is compound interest.” -Albert Einstein
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Frugal Al
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by Frugal Al »

OnFire wrote:The domestic content of the Accord was 70%, (Fusion, less than 50%) and they are assembled in Ohio, albeit not in a fully union shop.
To be clear, the Honda plants in the US are not even partially unionized.
Gleevec
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by Gleevec »

Is this the hybrid or the plug-in hybrid? Glad you like it!
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Ged
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by Ged »

Frugal Al wrote:
OnFire wrote:The domestic content of the Accord was 70%, (Fusion, less than 50%) and they are assembled in Ohio, albeit not in a fully union shop.
To be clear, the Honda plants in the US are not even partially unionized.
Honda does have labor agreements with trade unions for construction projects there. However you are right that there are no Honda employees covered by a collective bargaining agreement.
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Frugal Al
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by Frugal Al »

Ged wrote:Honda does have labor agreements with trade unions for construction projects there. However you are right that there are no Honda employees covered by a collective bargaining agreement.
I know, I negotiated some of those construction contracts. :D
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OnFire
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by OnFire »

The hybrid, non-plug-in.The plug-in model started at $40K, has only one trim line, and is available only in NY and California. It is eligible for a tax credit, but only about $3,000, which makes it quite a bit more expensive than the non-hybrid, which I got for $32K. I didn't think the additional price would be be made up for in fuel savings, especially since it's actually LESS efficient when not using all-electric propulsion.

So far, I love it. Thanks.
Where are all the customers yachts? | | “The most powerful force in the Universe is compound interest.” -Albert Einstein
TFinator
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by TFinator »

OnFire, I think you made a great choice.
That being said, it seems like your math for gas saved isn't right. The arithmetic is okay, but if your questions is if you made the right choice about getting a hybrid, then you should be comparing it to a non-hybrid accord.
Seems like you would have gotten rid of the other car one way or another, so you should compare the alternatives, not the new to the old.
Regardless, I bought my first (real person) car from Honda a couple years ago and I love my 2009 civic.
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by letsgobobby »

Consumer Reports updates on Civic and Prius hybrids:

"For the first time we’re getting a sense of the lifespan of a Prius hybrid battery. Our latest survey sees 12- and 11-year-old Prius batteries (2002s and 2003s) with a replacement rate of 5 and 4 percent, respectively. Swapping out one of those at a Toyota dealer would run about $2,300 plus about four hours’ labor; figure something under $3,000 altogether."

"While most hybrid gas/electric cars have proven reliable, our latest reliability survey found what might be called a shocking failure rate for the 2009 and 2010 Honda Civic Hybrid: Almost one in three owners told us that their car’s hybrid battery had needed replacement within the last 12 months."

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news ... /index.htm
Rkillian2794
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by Rkillian2794 »

If saving $ is your ultimate end game buy a used car. Using fuel savings in dollars as justification for buying a new car is a moot point. I drive a p.o.s. 1992 lesabre that I paid 600 dollars for w/ a little over 100 thousand miles. I have had it for 2 and half years and not had expenses other fuel/oil changes. Its obviously not as nice as an accord hybrid or any new car but it gets me from a to b and ill come out way ahead over spending 20k+ for a new car even after spending more on gas year over year. Just my 2 cents.
wander
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by wander »

Hexdump wrote: Isn't this the 1st year for a hybrid for Honda ?
First Honda Accord Hybrid was introduced in 2005, but it was more about adding performance than MPG.
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by wander »

OnFire wrote:Just wondering what everyone else thought of the car. And if you would have done the same...
I saw a video clip about this Accord Hybrid on CNN web page. I am waiting for my old car to stop working and get an Accord Hybrid. It looks better than a Prius.
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by TheOscarGuy »

Rkillian2794 wrote:If saving $ is your ultimate end game buy a used car. Using fuel savings in dollars as justification for buying a new car is a moot point. I drive a p.o.s. 1992 lesabre that I paid 600 dollars for w/ a little over 100 thousand miles. I have had it for 2 and half years and not had expenses other fuel/oil changes. Its obviously not as nice as an accord hybrid or any new car but it gets me from a to b and ill come out way ahead over spending 20k+ for a new car even after spending more on gas year over year. Just my 2 cents.
This holds true only if you are buying known low quality/unreliable cars. If you want Honda/Toyota/their luxury counterparts, you would be hard pressed to justify the cost of a decent mileage used car since they are so close to the cost of new car. For instance, a used CRV with 60,000 miles on it (2010 onwards) will cost about 8-9K less than buying new one. To me, that much mileage on the car does not justify the price I will end up paying.

Anything higher (100K or more) and you are really playing with fire, considering the amount of money you will put in to buy a used car. So really, given that market for a used (reliable, Japanese) cars is so haywire we have little choice but to go for newer ones.
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by davbpad »

Onfire, how are you liking your Accord two years on? I'm looking at purchasing a used Accord Hybrid as I'm not in the market for a new one. Any thoughts?
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Fieldsy1024
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by Fieldsy1024 »

My 2012 Skyactiv engine gets about 39-42 hwy, and 26 in town.

I am curious about hybrids, going to wait till my next new car in 2020 to compare it to my biased opinion of my Mazda lol.

Keep us posted and congrats
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Fieldsy1024
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by Fieldsy1024 »

Louis Winthorpe III wrote:
sambb wrote:
I was driven in a camry hybrid recently for an urban trip via stoplights and traffic. The car got >70 mpg.
That's great. Far, far in excess of what the manufacturer claims.
That is something that has my ear. Damn.
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burt
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Re: Took the Plunge, Bought an Accord Hybrid

Post by burt »

Congrat's to the Bogleheads interested in high fuel economy vehicles.
Seems like I read that 60% of US oil consumption is used in vehicles.
If 60% could be halved, what an huge positive impact that would have on the worlds civilian population.

burt
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