Windows XP Advice

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ceecee123
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Windows XP Advice

Post by ceecee123 »

I would like to get some advice from the computer gurus here. I am self-employed and will retire in about five years. I currently use a business software program that works perfectly in the following environment:

Microsoft Windows XP Professional XP (Version 2002, Service Pack 2)
Intel Pentium 4 HT (3 GHZ, 2 GB RAM)

I have no ongoing costs using the software now but if I upgrade to Windows 7/8, the terms of the software will change and I will begin paying $100 per month in licensing fees. The computer I use is not on any network and does not access the Internet and therefore I do not have to worry about any Windows XP vulnerabilities after April 2014. I am just trying to get through the next five years without paying about $5000 in fees over that time period. Therefore, I am trying to make sure I have a new computer that can continue to run Windows XP for the next five years.

My questions are the following:

1. If I buy a NEW computer that runs Windows 7, can I be reasonably certain the Windows XP mode on Windows 7 can load and run my program or should I buy a new computer that only runs Windows XP?

2. If I decide to buy a NEW computer that only runs XP with the above specs, how and where would I buy such a computer?

Thanks in advance,

Cee Cee
DSInvestor
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Re: Windows XP Advice

Post by DSInvestor »

You can buy a new pc that runs windows 7 or 8 then run windows xp in a virtualized window using virtualization software like oracle virtiual box (free) or VMware. This may be a good option if you have your windows xp installation CD.

I use virtualization software to run all kinds of stuff like old versions of windows and Linux. Mac users use virtualization software like parallels to run windows apps in a virtual installation of windows.
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jebmke
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Re: Windows XP Advice

Post by jebmke »

DSInvestor wrote:You can buy a new pc that runs windows 7 or 8 then run windows xp in a virtualized window using viruqlization software like oracle virtiual box (free) or VMware. This may be a good option if you have your windows xp installation CD.

I use virtualization software to run all kinds of stuff like old versions of windows and Linux. Mac users use virtualization software like parallels to run windows apps in a virtual installation of windows.
Or install both OS in dual boot mode.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
technovelist
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Re: Windows XP Advice

Post by technovelist »

DSInvestor wrote:You can buy a new pc that runs windows 7 or 8 then run windows xp in a virtualized window using virtualization software like oracle virtiual box (free) or VMware. This may be a good option if you have your windows xp installation CD.

I use virtualization software to run all kinds of stuff like old versions of windows and Linux. Mac users use virtualization software like parallels to run windows apps in a virtual installation of windows.
And of course "XP Mode" is a free download (with Windows 7 Professional or higher) that comes with an XP license:
"Using Windows XP Mode, you can run programs that were designed for Windows XP on computers running Windows 7 Professional, Enterprise, or Ultimate editions. "
(http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... -windows-7)
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jebmke
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Re: Windows XP Advice

Post by jebmke »

What exactly is wrong with the old machine. I have a 13 year old desktop and an 8 year old laptop that run XP fine.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
stan1
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Re: Windows XP Advice

Post by stan1 »

Buy (or accept as a gift from a friend) 1 or 2 used, older computers running Windows XP now to use as backup/spare in case the current computer fails before you retire.
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TimeRunner
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Re: Windows XP Advice

Post by TimeRunner »

If you decide to get a Mac at some point, Windows XP will also run fine on it in a Virtual Machine. Keep your Windows XP install CD/DVD regardless.
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Rob5TCP
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Re: Windows XP Advice

Post by Rob5TCP »

This may or may not be applicable. I have several clients that still use 18 year old DOS based software (mostly because they have been extensively customized over the years).
We switch a number to Win7 with XP Mode late last year. Most seem to be OK.
Some have one of several problems - printing, no matter what we do (including installing a parallel port printer) would function.
One unit, identical to the one next to it; just would not come up. We finally gave up and had them get another machine which works fine.
The Win7 part of that machine has been working without incident.
One area we are trying to find out. In the XP mode, if that has internet access, is it vulnerable. From what I see, Win7 does
not protect the XP mode. I am trying to find out if any viruses,etc; would be limited to the XP mode or could it spread to the Win7.

In you position; I would pickup, cheap, some XP machines; clean them up and keep as a backup. If you don't have internet access
on that machine (as you state) the 4/2014 date has no meaning.
That would be the safest course of action. If you do get a Win7 machine with XP mode, make sure the XP mode is isolated so
that there is no internet access through it (via a software firewall that allows you to cutoff all access).
jebmke
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Re: Windows XP Advice

Post by jebmke »

Rob5TCP wrote:This may or may not be applicable. I have several clients that still use 18 year old DOS based software (mostly because they have been extensively customized over the years).
There are still a lot of machines running customized DOS apps in factory floor applications (test equipment, data logging etc). As long as they stay off the network the do just fine.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
lazyday
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Re: Windows XP Advice

Post by lazyday »

Why are you considering a new computer? Does the old one seem to be having trouble?

Does Windows XP require connection to the internet to install and keep using?

If not, an option to consider might be buying a copy of Windows XP SP2, since you know it works. You might be able to use it with a used computer, maybe a new one.

Another option might be to buy Windows 2000, if the software works with it. Maybe you already have used the software with Windows 2000? Windows 2000 I believe has less copy protection than XP. You could install on an old used computer. IBM Thinkpads are pretty reliable for example, but you might want a new hard drive.
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abuss368
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Re: Windows XP Advice

Post by abuss368 »

I have so given up on Windows and will never go back. We have more Apple products in our house and our next computer is an Apple laptop.
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BolderBoy
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Re: Windows XP Advice

Post by BolderBoy »

I'd vote for Win7 and Oracle's VirtualBox VM as well - I run WinXP in that whenever I need it. I tried XP mode with Win7 for a few years and it was just a drag - don't know how else to explain it. Resource hog? Uninstalled it and went with Vbox.

(In fact, I have Win95b, Win98SE and MSDOS 6.22 all set up as VPC2007 VMs in case I need to run one of them, too. VPC2007 will run just fine on Win7 (the web has the how-tos written by the VPC2007 team leader) and those three items run fine that way.)

If you elect to go with Win7/8 and a VM to run WinXP, get plenty of RAM for the host machine and do yourself a favor and run a 4 core CPU minimum.
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yatesd
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Re: Windows XP Advice

Post by yatesd »

BolderBoy wrote:I'd vote for Win7 and Oracle's VirtualBox VM as well - I run WinXP in that whenever I need it. I tried XP mode with Win7 for a few years and it was just a drag - don't know how else to explain it. Resource hog? Uninstalled it and went with Vbox.

(In fact, I have Win95b, Win98SE and MSDOS 6.22 all set up as VPC2007 VMs in case I need to run one of them, too. VPC2007 will run just fine on Win7 (the web has the how-tos written by the VPC2007 team leader) and those three items run fine that way.)

If you elect to go with Win7/8 and a VM to run WinXP, get plenty of RAM for the host machine and do yourself a favor and run a 4 core CPU minimum.
I also like the idea of using a virtual machine. Let's you leverage the latest technology and security while giving you plenty of options. 5 more years is a long time and assume you will still want a computer after retirement.

Some thoughts:

- Buy a laptop or PC that is optimized for VM's. Think Dell, HP, or Lenovo commercial products. Plus if you decide to go with a laptop there is definitely a difference in durability.
- Virtual box is free and decent (I use on my Mac). I really like VMware Workstation. Commercially designed and supported product. Normally costs $249 but occasionally goes on sale. It's like having as many computers as you need!
- Make sure to have plenty of RAM. 8 is OK, 16GB is better.

VMWare does offer 30 day trials.. http://www.vmware.com/products/workstation/
4stripes
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Re: Windows XP Advice

Post by 4stripes »

This doesn't have to be complicated. You can install your XP disc or download an ISO and use your own key to install it on any newer PC.
gd
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Re: Windows XP Advice

Post by gd »

I'd guess a local computer services business near you (somebody working out of their house or strip mall storefront) could set up a new XP machine for you at any time, now or in 5 years, for a modest price. It's a pretty trivial task for them.

If you're genuinely nervous about it, you might buy a shrink-wrapped XP copy with generic license that can be installed on any hardware (not OEM copy bundled with a PC, in other words), in case you needed it later and they disappeared from the marketplace. Hard to imagine, though. It lists for an absurd $250 and sells for much, much less on Amazon.com, depending on how dicey a third-party vendor you want to deal with. Ask that local small business computer guy.
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bru
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Re: Windows XP Advice

Post by bru »

lazyday wrote:Why are you considering a new computer? Does the old one seem to be having trouble?
I know this is the forum of the extremely fugal...err Bogleheads but with support for XP ending it seems this would be the time to buy a new computer or at least a new OS. Yes I know there are ways around it etc. but life is short, get a new computer. If the OP keeps it as long as his XP machine the per year cost will be minimal.
lazyday
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Re: Windows XP Advice

Post by lazyday »

4stripes wrote:This doesn't have to be complicated. You can install your XP disc or download an ISO and use your own key to install it on any newer PC.
Wow, you can move a Windows licence to a new computer? That could make it easier.

Is Windows XP old enough to create a hassle with the new security feature on modern PCs? I forget what this is called. Some people have had trouble using alternate OS because of this.

I suppose most brand new PCs are still compatable with XP drivers?
lazyday
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Re: Windows XP Advice

Post by lazyday »

bru, I had assumed this PC was dedicated to the business app, but could be wrong.

That's why I mentioned a laptop as one option.
killjoy2012
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Re: Windows XP Advice

Post by killjoy2012 »

ceecee123 wrote: 1. If I buy a NEW computer that runs Windows 7, can I be reasonably certain the Windows XP mode on Windows 7 can load and run my program or should I buy a new computer that only runs Windows XP?
There's a "good chance" that XP compatibility mode within Win7 will run your software OK, but it's certainly not guaranteed. Have you tried googling the software name + "Windows 7" to see what others experiences are? That's where I would start... although running in XP compatibility mode under Win7 would still require a new license, which sounds contrary to your stated goal.?.?

You cannot buy a new PC that comes with XP anymore. Technically, OEMs aren't supposed to be selling any new PCs with Win7 anymore either (only Win8). You could try buying a new PC, then wiping the drive and installing XP, but I suspect you're going to have a lot of problems with XP drivers for new hardware. I wouldn't recommend this path - bound for headaches.
ceecee123 wrote:2. If I decide to buy a NEW computer that only runs XP with the above specs, how and where would I buy such a computer?
No such thing exists, at least not from Tier 1 resellers.

If the current PC is working OK, it's not network connected, etc... why not just stick with what you have? If you're worried about it "dieing", then replace the hard drive and power supply for < $100 now... and keep on trucking for the next few years. (Those 2 components are generally the first to die.)

The XP VM solution is also a good thought, although I think above the OPs proverbial head capability-wise, especially given the nature of the question being asked by them in the first place. It's certainly a good option, but I doubt the OP is going to pull this off themselves w/o significant help.

lazyday wrote: I suppose most brand new PCs are still compatable with XP drivers?
Bad assumption IMO. Motherboard chipsets and other hardware released over the past 2-3 years normally have no XP driver thoughts in mind. If the OP goes down this path, I would only do so after a ton of Googling that PC model +"XP" and see if there's any confirmed successful installs. My $ is against it.
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tadamsmar
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Re: Windows XP Advice

Post by tadamsmar »

killjoy2012 wrote: You cannot buy a new PC that comes with XP anymore. Technically, OEMs aren't supposed to be selling any new PCs with Win7 anymore either (only Win8). You could try buying a new PC, then wiping the drive and installing XP, but I suspect you're going to have a lot of problems with XP drivers for new hardware. I wouldn't recommend this path - bound for headaches.
I looked into rolling back a new HP system I have to Windows 7. Looks like some of the hardware is not compatible with Windows 7. I don't know if that means it will not work or if I just lose to use of some of the hardware features. I came with Windows 8 installed.

I saw a good many used Windows 7 systems available on Craig's list that had pretty good processors. Life would have been easier if I had bought one of those, I think.

PS: I upgraded to 8.1 and I configured it to go directly to the desktop, but I still find myself sometimes searching around to find the darn desktop. If you don't log out, then it will not bring you directly to the desktop, and sometimes it's not clear how to get back to the desktop. It's amazing how user unfriendly this thing is. I still can't figure out how to close a PDF after I have opened one. I am afraid my wife is going to get so down on it that she will need her own Windows 7 system. This new computer is on the verge of becoming a boat anchor. Here is a thread on how to close a PDF on Windows 8, you can do it with Alt-F4, but you will end up somewhere you don't want to be not in the context before you opened the PDF:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... 3f2?page=2

Anyone thinking of getting Windows 8 should read this thread. The best way to deal with native 8 apps is to replace the with a new default. Replace Reader with the Adobe PDF reader.
killjoy2012
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Re: Windows XP Advice

Post by killjoy2012 »

tadamsmar wrote: I looked into rolling back a new HP system I have to Windows 7. Looks like some of the hardware is not compatible with Windows 7. I don't know if that means it will not work or if I just lose to use of some of the hardware features. I came with Windows 8 installed.
Generally speaking, you'd have much better luck getting Win7 installed on PC hardware designed for Win8 as both are 'current' OSes. But if it says in the specs that X component isn't Win7 compatible, then yes, you would either lose that component's function, or you'd have to take it out & replace with something that is. e.g. If that component is a network card, that's easy enough - either go without network access or install an aftermarket, compatible NIC. But if it's the motherboard chipset that's not compatible - you're done. If the specs don't tell you what isn't compatible, you'd either have to start googling for other people's experiences with running Win7 on that model PC... or 'just do it' and see what happens. If it's a new PC w/ little personal data and apps installed, and on the verge of being a door stop, then I would give it a shot since you should have the Win8 recovery CD to go back to that, if needed.

And now you know first hand why many people, including those who are very computer literate, do not recommend Win8 (or 8.1). It's a lot of pain & frustration for very little gain, short of having a touch screen laptop or monitor.
patrick
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Re: Windows XP Advice

Post by patrick »

lazyday wrote:
4stripes wrote:This doesn't have to be complicated. You can install your XP disc or download an ISO and use your own key to install it on any newer PC.
Wow, you can move a Windows licence to a new computer? That could make it easier.

Is Windows XP old enough to create a hassle with the new security feature on modern PCs? I forget what this is called. Some people have had trouble using alternate OS because of this.

I suppose most brand new PCs are still compatable with XP drivers?
It looks like the CD mentioned only includes the service pack and is not a full install of Windows.

Either way, the usual license rule is that you can move to a new PC if you had bought the full retail version (in which case it would have come with a CD) but not if you had bought the OEM version (i.e. preinstalled on the computer).

I presume the new security feature you mention is Secure Boot, but this is not much of a problem since you can simply turn it off. Any version of Windows older than Windows 8 will be old enough to require turning off Secure Boot -- even Windows 7!

Driver compatibility will vary depending on exactly which hardware is involved, but at least some recent hardware still has XP drivers released. Note however that if you need a new driver for the hard disk you may have an interesting time trying to install it. The Windows XP way is to require you to insert a floppy disk with the driver on it at the start of the installation! Definitely an interesting challenge when your new PC has no floppy drive ... though it is possible to make a modified install CD with the drivers added to it.

Edited to add: note also that regardless of drivers Windows XP normally only lets you use around 3GB of RAM -- a modern PC would have more!
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