A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

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physicsgal
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by physicsgal »

fposte wrote:Another good trick--use your feet! You don't have to say anything if you don't want to; just walk right out of the store.

I suspect that physicsgirl may have had her inclinations toward politeness used against her. Don't worry that the salesman won't like you--he already doesn't like you. He just likes your money.
How can you tell that over the internet? The artwork was also very pretty but normally I look at nice stuff that I can't afford and I'm fine with never owning it. I have a long Amazon wish list of things I "want" that I will probably never buy. Having worked in service in high school and college I think everyone should work in service before they are allowed to deal with people doing services for them. The way people treat you sometimes is awful! I have a policy of being nice to service people and treating them like the humans they are, but I have to remember there is a difference between the person who checks me out at the grocery store and my coffee barista and a commissioned salesperson. I guess I have to not think of those types of salespeople as people. Which is sad.

What I really love is when you go somewhere and the salespeople are really low pressure and don't bug you unless you ask them questions and don't try to get you to decide right away. I've had them say "we don't want you to buy something and regret it so make sure you are making the right decision". That's a place I would go back to again and again.

This place is changing business to a diamond seller so I don't think BBB will help since they won't care about their reviews AND I haven't had success with BBB in the past so I'm doubtful anyways. Has anyone had success with BBB? I found it to be a total waste of time when I was having a dispute with Verizon. I'll wait till the stuff comes and then see if I can find a local charity that would be helped. I'm getting 3 paintings for that price so I can even keep one and donate the rest. It really was a good deal, I just don't have the $ at the moment so I should not have bought but they should have told me about their policy verbally, I think. Well, actually, I think that is a policy that no good business should have but if they are going to have it they should be more up front about it and not put it in the fine print.
investingdad
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by investingdad »

"I can't afford to right now because..."

I have never understood why so many people feel the need to explain themselves. My mom is like this, and I've seen strangers do it as well. To me, it comes off as very wishy-washy and seems to convey a sense of weakness or vulnerability to persuasion.

"No Thanks", usually does the trick, coupled with walking.

There's clearly a cultural phenomenon play at work here. There's a very upscale mall outside Philly that has little kiosk vendors in the center of the walkways. A lot of the people hawking goods from the kiosks are Middle Eastern, probably mid to late 20s, and very attractive. They are VERY aggressive in their sales techniques.

I've learned not to make eye contact.
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frugaltype
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by frugaltype »

physicsgal wrote:

This place is changing business to a diamond seller so I don't think BBB will help since they won't care about their reviews AND I haven't had success with BBB in the past so I'm doubtful anyways. Has anyone had success with BBB?
My impression is that diamond sellers tend to be shady characters, so that probably says something about any effort to get them to reverse this.

I use the BBB website to see mostly if a company has complaints or has their seal of approval.

I have some dim recollection of their getting me a refund from a company that sold baseboard type heaters years ago. The heater came with sharp metal edges and sparked when it turned on, and the company was not helpful until the BBB got involved. (I forget if there was a warranty policy or not, but I think one can assume that if something arrives as a piece of junk, the seller is obligated to replace or refund.)

On the other hand they accomplished nothing with a contractor who walked off with a deposit. They tried, but the guy just ignored them and then vanished. Fortunately it was only in three figures.
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by fposte »

physicsgal wrote: I have a policy of being nice to service people and treating them like the humans they are, but I have to remember there is a difference between the person who checks me out at the grocery store and my coffee barista and a commissioned salesperson. I guess I have to not think of those types of salespeople as people. Which is sad.
Or you can realize that "nice" and "polite" don't mean "listening to things that you're not interested in" and "staying just because someone is talking" or--and this is the big one--"not turning somebody down." It is not rude or mean to turn somebody down. It's perfectly polite to say "No, thanks!" and walk out, even if they're still talking. It is perfectly nice to say "No, I won't sign that," and keep your hands in your pockets.
Fallible
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by Fallible »

physicsgal wrote:[... I have a policy of being nice to service people and treating them like the humans they are, but I have to remember there is a difference between the person who checks me out at the grocery store and my coffee barista and a commissioned salesperson. I guess I have to not think of those types of salespeople as people. Which is sad.

It's not sad; it's realistic and smart and can help protect from a possibly bad buy. What you have to know is that they have a job to do and what that job is - simply, to sell. Your relationship with them is business, not personal. They deal with you as a customer, a potential sale; you deal with them as salespeople out to make a sale. That's the basic business relationship and that's why we're all on our own in deciding what and whether to buy - buyer beware.

What I really love is when you go somewhere and the salespeople are really low pressure and don't bug you unless you ask them questions and don't try to get you to decide right away. I've had them say "we don't want you to buy something and regret it so make sure you are making the right decision". That's a place I would go back to again and again.

I also prefer this approach. But it's still a business relationship. These are still salespeople whose job is to sell. They just may be smarter or better trained to "know" their customers, to know a customer who prefers a soft sell. It's a bit of sales psychology and some salespeople are better at it than others.

It may feel cynical or be somewhat discouraging to know that it's all just a business, but there are upsides: these are the good sales types who know their products and can inform you well about quality, alternatives, and costs. But even then, it may only be time for the customer to just thank the good salesman and begin shopping for cost and other comparisons, i.e., to become better informed before making a final decision. Better than all of that, it's a good idea to become informed about a product before heading out to buy.

...
"Yes, investing is simple. But it is not easy, for it requires discipline, patience, steadfastness, and that most uncommon of all gifts, common sense." ~Jack Bogle
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Abe
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by Abe »

One time long ago, a man on crutches came into my business and he was selling magazine subscriptions. I bought two subscriptions, not because I wanted them, but because I felt sorry for him. Guess what? I never got the magazines. I'm sure the man was not really disabled, but I'm sure he sold a lot of subscriptions because people felt sorry for him. They make it hard to say no. Even though this was a little mistake, I learned something from it. We all need to learn from out mistakes and move on.
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by sls239 »

A good rule I will make is not to spend more than say $20 on an item that I didn't already plan to buy without waiting 24 hours to make sure I'd really rather have the item.
It sounds to me like you are on a tight budget right now and maybe part of what made it easier for them to get you is the feeling that you've been depriving yourself lately and deserve to splurge.

And I think you are swinging too far the other way - you've gone from an impulse $4K purchase to saying you'll wait 24 hours before spending $20!

Why not try and find a balance that you and your wallet can live with?

Also, you might be the type of person who simply enjoys impulse purchases more than say having cable. Consider what brings you joy and try to allot your money accordingly.

You need to feel in control of your spending and confident of your priorities. That will be your best defense. I think it is more about how you think of yourself than how you think of the salesperson.
Last edited by sls239 on Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
dowse
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by dowse »

A couple of years ago, I went with my young adult son to a car dealership to help him navigate the minefield there for the first time. After test driving a car, of course we were asked to sit down with the salesman. Right away, my guard went up as he started us off with the classic 4-box grid approach (down payment, monthly payment, trade-in, price). Then, he did something I had not seen before. He made up a hand-written "agreement" saying that if my son came to terms with the dealership on a car he would commit to buying it. He asked my son to sign it. I told him not to, and at that point we walked out. A classic attempt to try and get the customer to make some kind of commitment. I'm sure that if negotiations had continued, that paper would have been pulled out and thrown back at him with words to the affect of "but you signed an agreement. Don't you honor your commitments"?
Never doing business with that outfit.
staythecourse
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by staythecourse »

The older and more wise I get the more I believe in the old adage of "Know thyself". Everyone has faults and character weaknesses that as much as you try one can NEVER get rid of. That is what makes us individuals. The key to life is know thyself's weaknesses and try to avoid situations that you know will stimulate those weaknesses. If one is tempted by salesman it is okay just realize it and stay away from salesman unless you actually intend to buy whatever it is. Even then try to do as much as you can over internet and phone as it is much easier to end the conversation.

Good luck.
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dpc
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by dpc »

I read an interesting book by Rory Miller on a totally different subject (violence), but he said something in there that I've always remembered: "Charm" is a verb. When someone seems charming, this is not something they are born with - it is something actively being done to you.

I would not worry too much about this incident. We all have weak moments. Seems to happen to me every year just before Christmas. 8-)
"Worrying is like paying interest on a debt that you might never owe" -- Will Rogers
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Abe
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by Abe »

dowse wrote:A couple of years ago, I went with my young adult son to a car dealership to help him navigate the minefield there for the first time. After test driving a car, of course we were asked to sit down with the salesman. Right away, my guard went up as he started us off with the classic 4-box grid approach (down payment, monthly payment, trade-in, price). Then, he did something I had not seen before. He made up a hand-written "agreement" saying that if my son came to terms with the dealership on a car he would commit to buying it. He asked my son to sign it. I told him not to, and at that point we walked out. A classic attempt to try and get the customer to make some kind of commitment. I'm sure that if negotiations had continued, that paper would have been pulled out and thrown back at him with words to the affect of "but you signed an agreement. Don't you honor your commitments"?
Never doing business with that outfit.
Yes, the old get you to commit trick. I've had salesmen say, "If I show you where my product will save you money, would you buy it?" I usually say, "maybe". You did the right thing. If people try this stuff on me, I walk out, same as you did.
Slow and steady wins the race.
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Abe
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by Abe »

I know I have already posted, but I wanted to add something. There was a time when it was hard for me to say no to people. Sales people use this to their advantage. Now when someone is trying to get me to do something that I don't want to do, I usually say something like, " I'm not going to be able to do that." If they are real pushy and ask, "why not." I usually say, " I'm not in a position to do that right now." If they continue to push, I raise my voice a little and say... NO. That usually ends it. If you don't learn how to do this, you will buy a lot of stuff you don't want or need over a lifetime.
Slow and steady wins the race.
leonard
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by leonard »

You didn't say anything about actually signing a credit card charge.

So, simply return the product and contest the charge. If they will not process a return - take a picture of the returned items in front of something that shows they are in the store. Your proof of return. CC company will usually side with the consumer in the case that a vendor that can't validate a sale.

Also, have you thoroughly inspected the items. Is there some damage that would be the basis for the returning the items. If so, your position for the return and a full refund with the CC company will be even stronger.

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physicsgal
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by physicsgal »

Abe wrote:I know I have already posted, but I wanted to add something. There was a time when it was hard for me to say no to people. Sales people use this to their advantage. Now when someone is trying to get me to do something that I don't want to do, I usually say something like, " I'm not going to be able to do that." If they are real pushy and ask, "why not." I usually say, " I'm not in a position to do that right now." If they continue to push, I raise my voice a little and say... NO. That usually ends it. If you don't learn how to do this, you will buy a lot of stuff you don't want or need over a lifetime.
Thanks, that's good advice. I learned at some point how to say no to men who are hitting on me and not feel at all bad about it, which you need to learn if you are female, at all attractive and go out ever. I just need to look at salespeople the way I look at men trying to grab me in a club. They are just aiming for my purse and not my butt.
sls239 wrote:
A good rule I will make is not to spend more than say $20 on an item that I didn't already plan to buy without waiting 24 hours to make sure I'd really rather have the item.
It sounds to me like you are on a tight budget right now and maybe part of what made it easier for them to get you is the feeling that you've been depriving yourself lately and deserve to splurge.

And I think you are swinging too far the other way - you've gone from an impulse $4K purchase to saying you'll wait 24 hours before spending $20!

Why not try and find a balance that you and your wallet can live with?

Also, you might be the type of person who simply enjoys impulse purchases more than say having cable. Consider what brings you joy and try to allot your money accordingly.

You need to feel in control of your spending and confident of your priorities. That will be your best defense. I think it is more about how you think of yourself than how you think of the salesperson.
Maybe I need to loosen my budget a bit, but I have reasons for the tight budget that are deeply important to me having to do with my life goals and future. I have a fun money category in my budget but I use that for going out with friends, which is what really brings me joy way more than any stuff. It could be I was feeling deprived combined with the nice stuff, feeling like I was getting such a good deal it would be silly to pass it up, and interacting with the salesperson on too personal a level so I thought of him as a person and not as a person trying to get into my wallet; those factors combined made me lose track of my real priorities. Now I'm most likely stuck with what I have so I will make the best of it to learn a lesson and maybe do some good for a charity. In the end it's better to learn that lesson now when I'm 33 and for the discount of $1k instead of $4k.
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by Busting Myths »

physicsgal wrote: I learned at some point how to say no to men who are hitting on me and not feel at all bad about it, which you need to learn if you are female, at all attractive and go out ever.
Must be a guy thing...but if a women was hitting on me I would not feel bad.
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by mojave »

Anytime I see a sale or some kind of a deal (or anytime my husband comes to me excited about one) I say "the best deal is not spending a dime".
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aja8888
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by aja8888 »

Look at it this way, at least you didn't buy a variable annuity. :shock:
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Post by pinecrest »

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Last edited by pinecrest on Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
hiddensee
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by hiddensee »

I'm not sure what is manipulative here. Unlike a variable annuity or other missold financial products, the salespeople don't seem to have relied on you not understanding what you were buying. They were quite clear about what they were offering you and the price. You seem to have believed they were offering a good deal and accepted it. While often one can return items, particularly items that cannot be tested in use while still in the shop, refusing to give you a full refund on items you agreed to buy is not manipulative.
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by Valuethinker »

Busting Myths wrote:
physicsgal wrote: I learned at some point how to say no to men who are hitting on me and not feel at all bad about it, which you need to learn if you are female, at all attractive and go out ever.
Must be a guy thing...but if a women was hitting on me I would not feel bad.
Ahh my friend, it's not like for like.

Implicit is that you would find these women attractive, and they would have decent personal hygiene, pleasant breath, good personal habits and interpersonal skills.

Turn it round. You are 25, say. You get hit on by a bunch of fat middle aged women, say 50. Many of whom are overweight and lack the above attributes.

This is *constant*. Every time you step out of the house, go shopping, buy a coffee in Starbucks, on the bus etc.

You'd tire of it pretty quick.

I was once out for a drink with a friend and her colleagues. She is 40 and a very good looking blonde woman-- looks in her early 30s. Very za za (her mother was French). Guy with us, about 60, a freelancer-- fat, drinking a lot. Showing up pictures of his 6 year old daughter. The drink got down to S. and I, and this guy, I couldn't figure out why he stuck around.

Found out afterwards he made a pass at her. Having shown us the photo of his 6 year old daughter.

*this* is men. As my wife says, it gets old.
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by fposte »

She also wasn't saying simply she feels bad when men hits on her--she said she feels bad saying no to them, just like she apparently felt too bad to say no to the art salesman. And while there are reasons other than financial to learn to say no, this is kind of an interesting behavioral economics moment where the unwillingness came with a price tag that is clearly making the OP feel worse than a "No" in the moment would have. How much would you pay to avoid having to say no? At the moment of the sale, the OP thought the answer was $1000, but I bet she'd be happier today keeping the $1000 even if she'd felt bad saying no in the moment.
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by IPer »

Hi, it sounds like even if you lose $1000 you have not really learned this lesson. I suspect in order to really learn it you will need to put yourself in the same (or similar) situation a few more times except being able to walk away the next few times. Yes, salespeople are people too, however, sales tactics are not human. You need to be armed with the ability to recognize sales tactics and reject them without feeling you slighted any human. It doesn't matter if you carry your credit cards with you or not, those cards didn't jump out of your wallet either. I have been drawn into many stores and been tempted to buy stuff I would never have thought of buying that day. I used to feel the pain and waste of their time, etc. And then I would buy something small just to deal with that, until I realized their job is to display and present their wares and use sales tactics to close you. It has nothing to do with their humanity and if you say no it doesn't really hurt them as much as it does to you once you have been convinced you need something (conned!). So yes, you need to learn to walk away from these things, I believe it will help to make you a better overall person. I am almost positive you will gain an edge in some other possibly unrelated area of your life...happy trails!
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by CMartel2 »

A favorite sport of mine for a saleperson who won't stop trying to make me buy something that I'm not sure I want to buy it to turn the tables and try to sell something to them. I really don't care what it is; it's for my own amusement. I do it to telemarketers. I do it to pushy salesmen. It's rather amusing and totally shifts the thrust of the conversation because it totally throws them off.
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by oragne lovre »

Valuethinker wrote:
Caduceus wrote:
Chock it up to lessons learned and you won't make that mistake again. Analyze what it was that made you agree/ strike the deal. What was your mental state, and how are you going to avoid it again?
I agree with Valuethinker and would take it as an opportunity to examine how you respond to sales tactics. I used to feel pressured by salespeople while traveling overseas because they would invite you into shops, insist that you sit down, serve you tea, and basically have a huge conversation before asking if you were interested in any of the goods ... at which point it seemed somehow impolite to say "NO!"

But once I realized that they do this every day to hundreds of customers, I learned how to resist feeling "obliged" to just "take a look." In my experience, being firm and not explaining yourself is best. There's no need to explain why you don't have the money. A simple but firm "No, thank you" repeatedly would give them no opportunity for a response. Ultimately, no one can "get you" to do anything, no matter how persuasive they are!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Influence-Psych ... 288&sr=1-1

This is a classic book. Don't let the 'bestseller' title put you off. Cialdini, a psychologist, went undercover to find out how used car salesmen, stereo salesmen etc. do it.

Lots of 'aha' and 'gotcha' moments.

That and watching those 2 movies I suggested.

I'd have to discuss Landmark Trust with you here, which I shall not do, but my experience is given enough time and the right environment anyone can be persuaded of anything, even if only for a limited time.
I'm also a patsy since I just ordered the book :)
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A $200 lesson.

Post by Taylor Larimore »

My wife walked into a store in South America and purchased a pretty cotton tablecloth she liked. The sales price was about $20 U.S. dollars. The sales lady put an inflated price in pesos on her charge card which my wife signed.

When Pat received her statement the charge was for over $200 U.S. dollars. We were unable to get a refund because my wife had signed the credit-card bill at the (unknown to her) price.

Pat was so embarrassed we never used the table cloth. :oops:

Live and learn.

Best wishes.
Taylor
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by VictoriaF »

oragne lovre wrote:
Valuethinker wrote:
Caduceus wrote:
Chock it up to lessons learned and you won't make that mistake again. Analyze what it was that made you agree/ strike the deal. What was your mental state, and how are you going to avoid it again?
I agree with Valuethinker and would take it as an opportunity to examine how you respond to sales tactics. I used to feel pressured by salespeople while traveling overseas because they would invite you into shops, insist that you sit down, serve you tea, and basically have a huge conversation before asking if you were interested in any of the goods ... at which point it seemed somehow impolite to say "NO!"

But once I realized that they do this every day to hundreds of customers, I learned how to resist feeling "obliged" to just "take a look." In my experience, being firm and not explaining yourself is best. There's no need to explain why you don't have the money. A simple but firm "No, thank you" repeatedly would give them no opportunity for a response. Ultimately, no one can "get you" to do anything, no matter how persuasive they are!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Influence-Psych ... 288&sr=1-1

This is a classic book. Don't let the 'bestseller' title put you off. Cialdini, a psychologist, went undercover to find out how used car salesmen, stereo salesmen etc. do it.

Lots of 'aha' and 'gotcha' moments.

That and watching those 2 movies I suggested.

I'd have to discuss Landmark Trust with you here, which I shall not do, but my experience is given enough time and the right environment anyone can be persuaded of anything, even if only for a limited time.
I'm also a patsy since I just ordered the book :)
The book is good, you won't regret buying it. However, the problem with this book and other psychology and behavioral economics books is that just knowing how these things work is not enough to effectively resist them. Daniel Kahneman, a 2002 Nobel winner in economics and the author of the bestselling "Thinking, Fast and Slow," freely admits that he falls for every cognitive bias after having studied them for over fifty years.

What works--to some extent--is predicting tricky situations and being prepared for them, as much as possible. For example, terminating telemarketer calls is more effective than trying to outwit them, going for timeshare presentations is a self-defeating proposition, and getting drunk with a man you don't want to be intimate with is likely to result in getting more intimate than you wished.

Victoria
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Gattamelata
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by Gattamelata »

fposte wrote:...with a big item like this I always ask for a business card so I can come back or call in to make the purchase later. If they say I can't call in later, it annoys me enough to back away and wreck the buying high; if they say yes, that gives me a chance to evaluate the purchase with a cooler head...
This is great advice. The power of "I need to think about it." is amazing. One way to handle this is to set an amount (say, $500). For any purchase over your amount, just decide that you will never make the decision on the spur of the moment. "I need some time to think about it."

The reaction you get from that phrase tells you everything you need to know. A salesperson who is content with the quality of the deal she's offering will say "Okay. Here's my card. Think it over and let me know what you think." A salesperson who is trying to sucker you will ratchet up the pressure. "This is a limited-time deal. We only have one unit left in stock. When the owner gets back she won't let me sell to you for this low. The unit is discontinued. I'm quitting tomorrow and they won't honor your deal." When a salesperson starts giving you that kind of pressure, walk away.
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by BigTom »

I didn't read all the comments , but basically if the product you revive isn't what you ordered the credit card could do the charge back . I would explore that option even if you have to tell them this isn't what I ordered . Or just tell them you never revived it , or it wasn't in the condition it was in the store . F these guys .

I made a few bone head moves like this . I still get pissed of if I think about them . I think if I had something in my living room that made me feel like that it would be an issue for me . Don't refuse it though because you won't have your money or the product .
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widestance
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by widestance »

That's nothing.
Wait until you get roped into a timeshare sales pitch in Cancun.
They feed you, liquor you up, and give you the hard sell (Aussie accent and all) for a few hours.
Lucky for me, i couldn't afford it, no matter how much they slashed the pricing.
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4th and Inches
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by 4th and Inches »

Sorry, but it is hard for me to feel sorry for the OP on this one. What in the world were you thinking? I imagine you have learned a lesson.
RunningRad
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by RunningRad »

The best advice I can offer, having not read the entire thread, is not to put yourself in a situation where you can make an unfortunate or regrettable purchase.

Don't want to buy art? Don't walk into the art gallery.
Don't want to buy a new car, don't go to the car dealer.
Don't want a timeshare, don't go to the presentation.
Etc.

Once you have taken the bait, you are fighting an uphill battle. Nearly all of us have made similar mistakes. Mine was a $6000 piece of Chihuly glass. It sits in my living room as a constant reminder of how not to get taken again.
Few decisions in life motivated by greed ever have happy outcomes--Peter Bernstein, The 60/40 Solution
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by LadyGeek »

This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (sales tactics).
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EnjoyIt
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by EnjoyIt »

widestance wrote:That's nothing.
Wait until you get roped into a timeshare sales pitch in Cancun.
They feed you, liquor you up, and give you the hard sell (Aussie accent and all) for a few hours.
Lucky for me, i couldn't afford it, no matter how much they slashed the pricing.

A while back I went to Cozumel for vacation with my family. My father got roped into a timeshare sales pitch and wanted to buy it for himself and a gift to me and my family. Great gesture, but a waste of money. He insisted that it was a great deal based on what the salesman said and needed me to hear the sales pitch. I complied with my fathers wishes and we went to listen to the pitch. I took some writing material me jotting all the info down as the pitch progressed. I then proceeded to mathematically dismantle the so called deal for my fathers behalf so that he could see what a rip off it really was.

The salesman did attempt to dissuade us with the erroneous value of upgrades and other areas of value I was missing. He really tried the hard sell, but was unable to get to my dad after he understood the actual math involved. I am so glad we avoided that one because we would still be paying maintenance fees of $1500/yr each.
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BigTom
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by BigTom »

My timeshare experience with Disney , was quite low pressure . But I have herd story's ,really bad ones like they don't let you leave till you buy .
HIinvestor
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by HIinvestor »

I have learned to stop being excessively polite. When a salesperson persists and tries to deliver a spiel, in firmly interrupt and say, "No, thank you." If they try to re-launch their talk, I repeat again (sometimes a bit louder), "No thank you." I then hang up (if it's a phone call) or walk out, if I'm at a store.

I really resent pushy salespeople. I know they feel they are doing their job, but I am not honestly not interested in their need to meet their sales quota and know I WILL NOT BUY from anyone who pushes me when I'm not interested.

One purchase I made that shocks H, my kids and yes, myself, was when I fell for a door-to-door salesperson who said that she was trying to make a delivery of frozen food but the person she was delivering to and she miscommunicated so she would have to discard the food if she didn't have someone else to sell it to. I can't believe I actually bought frozen meat from her, but never did it again. (Merchandise was OK but rather over-priced and certainly not the quality the salesperson claimed it was.) H has sometimes donated to folks who come door to door or solicit him (I generally do as stated in paragraph 1.)

I agree that it's good if you shop with a friend when you have low resistance but want to browse but know your friend will remind you to "just say no." (Beware if you shop with a friend who loves and rhapsodizes about everything.) Depending on your budget, it does make sense to think overnight about purchases over a dollar amount that you set for yourself. Salespeople and merchandise CAN wait until the time is right for the buyer.
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by Pha430 »

Whenever I want or need to buy some thing I usually already know what I'm looking for, because I like to do my research before hand. These days since I can get better deals online, I only go to the store to check out the product in person to see it and feel it. Also if I do buy it in store the first question I ask the salesman is the return policy. If it's a generous policy that involves no restocking fee and at least 15 to 30 days on returns for a full refund, I'll take it. This helps with buyers remorse basically, if I get home and feel that this was not what I wanted or felt "I don't need this" or "I can't really afford this". I'll simply take it back, there's no harm or damage done.

Other wise it's too easy to get sucked in for most people by salesmen. Just remember always ask about the return policy, if it's a no refund and final. Then of course walk away, go home, think about it more, and I am sure the product will still be there tomorrow if you really wanted it.
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by JoeJohnson »

They have a no return policy but they were kind enough to allow you to return some of the art and only spend $1,000? How does that work?

It feels like you got hustled just as much on the return/restocking fee as you did on the purchase.
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by jasc15 »

I nearly had a similar situation visiting Mexico last year. My girlfriend and I took a bus into town because we needed to buy a few things. Right at the bus stop was a woman who spoke excellent english and somehow lured us into her shop. I felt uneasy as soon as I stepped off the bus and saw her, but I entertained her for a minute. My mistake was to answer her questions about where we were staying, etc. Then it came down to us "getting a $200 rebate for our vacation club", or some such nonsense. Until that point, she hadn't mentioned anything she was trying to sell; just gave us a map of the area, and explained how to get where we wanted to go (which I didn't need, I already knew exactly where I was going). When I finally said "no, thank you" her smile turned into a growl and she wouldn't even look at us. Then we got to the Walmart to get the sunscreen we needed. There were employees handing us sunscreen almost as soon as we got in the door. I put it down, and found the cheaper stuff on the shelves near the back of the store.
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by HardKnocker »

I have a bridge to sell. When can we get together?

:wink:
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by Mingus »

RunningRad wrote: Once you have taken the bait, you are fighting an uphill battle. Nearly all of us have made similar mistakes. Mine was a $6000 piece of Chihuly glass. It sits in my living room as a constant reminder of how not to get taken again.
Yikes! I've made some dumb purchases in my life and this is how it plays out.

1) Stupid expensive purchase
2) Anger
3) Try to accept
4) Anger
5) Disgust at looking at said stupid purchase
6) Get rid of it.
7) Peace at last
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by denovo »

baw703916 wrote:That's why I like buying things online. No need to interact with actual people.
I think some online retailers know some tricks, because I've heard of people addicted to online shopping.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by denovo »

OP,

here is some useful advice.

I don't know where you bought this , but if it was in CA, this may be of interest to you.
Consumers have come to expect stores or catalog companies to offer a refund, credit or exchange when they return items. Sellers are not required by law to accept returned items unless they are defective. However, California law requires that retailers who have a policy of not providing a cash refund, credit or exchange when an item is returned with proof of purchase within 7 days of purchase must inform consumers about their refund policies by conspicuously placing a written notice about their policies, in language that consumers can understand, so that it can be easily seen and read. Some companies may limit exchanges or returns for credit or refunds on all, or some products. Some may not allow exchanges or returns for credit or refunds at all. But whatever the limitation, it must be conspicuously disclosed. Before making a purchase, carefully check the store's policy.

The policy must be displayed either at each entrance to the store, at each cash register and sales counter, on tags attached to each item, or on the company's order forms, if any. A return policy printed only on a receipt, for example, is not sufficient.

If a store violates this law (California Civil Code section 1723), the purchaser can return an item for a full refund within 30 days of purchase.

http://oag.ca.gov/consumers/general/refund_policies

Other states may have similar laws.
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by random user 320 »

VictoriaF wrote:However, the problem with this book and other psychology and behavioral economics books is that just knowing how these things work is not enough to effectively resist them.
This has been noticed, and there was some research into how people muster willpower and resist successfully. This book contains a useful overview.
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by mbenz1997 »

http://www.amazon.com/Influence-Psychol ... persuasion

I agree with the poster about Cialdini's book: Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion. Very interesting read, hopefully it'll help you...

I never needed the help I've come to realize - watching my parents (especially my mom) negotiate with salespeople my whole life and be willing to walk away at any point was key (even after every concession was agreed to). Haha, when I was younger I used to think my mom would be pretty rude about saying no sometimes, but I've learned to say no with no feelings of guilt. They are just doing their job, and you are doing your job, which is looking out for your bank account.
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by VictoriaF »

random user 320 wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:However, the problem with this book and other psychology and behavioral economics books is that just knowing how these things work is not enough to effectively resist them.
This has been noticed, and there was some research into how people muster willpower and resist successfully. This book contains a useful overview.
I've read The Power of Habit, it's a great book. However, good habits are not a panacea from all possible threats. Habits help us to prepare for known common occurrences, e.g., a habit of saying "no" to telemarketers. But frequently we need defenses in ad hoc situations, some of which are self-inflicted.

Victoria
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by cbeck »

I view nearly all salespeople as my enemies. My immediate goal in interacting with them is to break their script. They have strategies for manipulating me which includes getting me to say yes, making me feel like their "friend", creating a sense of urgency with a one-time price reduction, etc. My strategy is never to agree to anything, not to be friendly, not to give my name, never to say "yes" to anything, etc. I know that the salesperson has much more experience at this game than I do and that all of his strategies are intended to victimize me to a greater or lesser degree. I resent being manipulated even more than losing money. It has been a long time since I cared what the sales person thought of me, but I prefer that he dislike me.
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by VictoriaF »

cbeck wrote:It has been a long time since I cared what the sales person thought of me, but I prefer that he dislike me.
But what if the salesperson is a she, and she is beautiful?

Victoria
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by Amaranth »

Not all sales people are bad. In my youth, I held a number of sales jobs, including telemarketing jobs. I always looked at my job as "helping the customer get what they wanted." I actually believed in the value of the products/services I was offering. I was pretty successful, and I never had an unhappy customer, at least that I was aware of. I was a charming telemarketer. Hardly anyone hung up on me, and many customers ended up thanking me. Both they and I believed that I had provided a valuable service. And I slept well at night.

And from the perspective of the buyer: My mother always looked at negotiating as a blood sport. As an 80 year old recent widow, she went to buy a new car. I went with her, and I watched with discomfort. I actually thought she was mean to the car salesman! She quickly turned down all talk of trade-ins and financing, and when the salesman walked away to check the price with his "boss" (a typical sales ploy) she told him the story of how her father in law, a lifelong car salesman, had briefed her on all the tricks. She got the price that she wanted, and made them order the car in the color she wanted (not available at that location) from a dealer in another city.

So her car arrived and she went to pick it up. Then she put on an amazing show of not being sure after all -- and got them to knock still more money off the price.

The lesson: be prepared to walk away.
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by Amaranth »

RunningRad wrote:Nearly all of us have made similar mistakes. Mine was a $6000 piece of Chihuly glass. It sits in my living room as a constant reminder of how not to get taken again.
Have you checked the value of that Chihuly glass recently? I'm wondering if it might not have increased substantially in value... perhaps an accidental good investment?
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Re: A $1000 lesson on how manipulative salespeople can be?

Post by mkatz »

Caduceus wrote:I think salespeople rely on expectations of politeness. Can you imagine what would happen if someone said "I think you're being pushy and I find you annoying" to the salesperson? Of course, most people would never say that ...
i've said that... numerous times. If I feel "pushed", i feel it my prerogative to educate the salesperson on the error of his ways. Actually, i enjoy doing so. I'm retired... no longer feel the need to impress people... Sometimes I'll politely walk away from a sales pitch. Sometimes I indulge in trying to educate the seller. I never feel the need to reward an aggressive salesman for his time.
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