Winter coats:

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Nowizard
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Winter coats:

Post by Nowizard »

I notice that a large number, perhaps even a majority, of people wear coats from either Columbia or Northface, the former being in somewhat lower numbers. Recently purchasing a winter coat led to these brands only to feel that they were overpriced. Eventually, a coat was purchased that was of neither brand, though it had a nicer, zip-out lining, all the similar stitching, etc., but what seemed to be a ridiculous price of $60 at Burlington Coat Factory, not on sale. This compared to anywhere from $250 to $300 for what appeared to be comparable coats from the brand name items. Am I missing something here? The coat has performed wonderfully this winter and received numerous compliments. What do other folks do when buying a winter coat?

Tim
killjoy2012
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by killjoy2012 »

Nothing new here - are you dressing to impress, or not? That's your answer. TNF is a premium brand, premium price, and well recognized by the majority as such - keeping up with the Jones's. Columbia is also not cheap, but not as premium.

I have a TNF vest coat & softshell jacket, both were < $150 each. Then a couple dark wool business-type jackets (business dress)... and a couple cheap polyester filled "winter coats". TNF makes good stuff, but it is overpriced, and everything they make is more adventure/casual/business casual... so, just depends if that's what you're looking for.
thewizzer
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by thewizzer »

Nowizard wrote:I notice that a large number, perhaps even a majority, of people wear coats from either Columbia or Northface, the former being in somewhat lower numbers. Recently purchasing a winter coat led to these brands only to feel that they were overpriced. Eventually, a coat was purchased that was of neither brand, though it had a nicer, zip-out lining, all the similar stitching, etc., but what seemed to be a ridiculous price of $60 at Burlington Coat Factory, not on sale. This compared to anywhere from $250 to $300 for what appeared to be comparable coats from the brand name items. Am I missing something here? The coat has performed wonderfully this winter and received numerous compliments. What do other folks do when buying a winter coat?

Tim
I'm a Columbia guy, personally. I find the price/quality ratio to be pretty reasonable. I've worn other coats in the past, with varying levels of success. I'd agree with your assessment of TNF stuff. It seems really nice, but I can't justify the cost. Yuppies seem to like it, though. I buy my Columbia shirts at the local Farm N Fleet.
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Dutch
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by Dutch »

Come back in a couple of years. I find that the difference between a high quality and a low(er) quality coat becomes apparent in the number years you're able/willing to wear it.

My expensive coats, like Tenson or Arc'teryx, also turned out to be the cheapest when calculated on a per year basis.
Professor Emeritus
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by Professor Emeritus »

North Face Columbia and LL Bean all make very high quality albeit different style coats and fleece jackets.
I have lost them, I have burned them and I have even given them away but I have never ever ever worn one out.
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frugaltype
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by frugaltype »

I just looked at the Columbia and North Face websites, and don't see any coats, just jackets. Ditto the Burlington Coat factory is mostly jackets.

I'm in the market for a good winter coat for shoveling snow in and so on, and a jacket just isn't warm enough, plus I don't wear down stuff due to the humane issue, so it's hard to find something acceptable. I've worn my old llbean one, which they no longer make, down to frayed cuffs. I should have bought two.
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alec
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by alec »

Every ten years or so I've bought a winter/ski jacket from LL bean, but only during really big discounts.
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Ged
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by Ged »

I used to live in a place where you could count on significant -15 F weather every year, and some occasional -20 F. For that my North Face heavy duty parka was well worth the expense.

Now that I'm in NJ I never use it. I have a coat from LLB that is more than enough for snowblowing, which is by far the coldest thing I do now.
Big Worm
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by Big Worm »

I have 2 Patagonias. Love them.
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stratton
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by stratton »

Eddie Bauer Outlet Store.

$100 coat for about $50.

Eddie Bauer has 5 levels of rain protection. Gortex is a "5" and cost more than $200 new and ~$120 discounted. They have rain shell rated a "4" that remainders out for ~$50. I have one of these big enough to fit over coats such as the one I mentioned previously.

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TRC
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by TRC »

You get what you pay for. I have a lot of north face gear that i bought in the late 90s and the stuff is still going strong. TNF gear is expensive, but its incredibly well built and is meant to last. I never pay retail though. You can find good deals at tNF outlets and even sometimes Marshall's or TJ max. Beware of cheap knockoffs on eBay.
RDB
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by RDB »

Living in Minnesota I have a wide array of coats including The North Face, Marmot, Patagonia. We have migrated more towards Patagonia lately due to their values and customer service. They stand by their product like no one I have ever encoutered. If basically anything happens, they will replace it no questions asked, no receipt needed. I casually mentioned to an employee that the stiching on a swimsuit I bought a couple years ago was coming undone, he apoligized and said to bring it in for replacement, no questions asked. Patagonia is expensive, but they cut their prices on previous years colors and styles pretty aggressively. They also have numerous outlets and will call around to all their stores to find a product for you.
Andyrunner
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by Andyrunner »

Live in Minnesota as well, so I need to be prepared for cold weather.

I have a wool overcoat I wear during the workweek to wear over a suit comfortably. I also have an Eddie Baurer 700fill down coat that cost me $100, perfect with the exception of no hood, I have owned it for 6 years and no signs of dying.

From out of all of my winter gear I have found Patagonia to be the best quality, but you pay the price for it. The North Face is owned by VF corporation which owns a large variety of clothing lines, this definatly helps with marketing (which is why you see so many people wearing them).
Phatphoeater
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by Phatphoeater »

I don't shop based on labels, rather I buy jackets based on the intended use. In my younger days, I would use 1 jacket for all purposes: snowboarding, rain, cold, wind. Nowadays, I buy for a specific purpose. Using a bulky snowboarding jacket as a raincoat is too bulky. Using an ultralight rain shell during cold weather is not warm enough. Neither will have enough insulation for cold weather. For those the folks that spend a lot of time outdoors these categories can be further broken down to ultralight/packable vs non-ultralight. I don't expect to fill all these needs with a single brand.
leonard
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by leonard »

Filson.

Expensive - but one of the few things worth it. Have had their coats for over 10 years and they still look brand new. The wool looks great and lasts forever.
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Pacific
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by Pacific »

I like the look of the coyote-fox coat that Joe Namath was wearing for the coin toss, but the $3,000 price tag is a little steep for me.
Quickfoot
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by Quickfoot »

With Coats and Jackets its more *when* you buy that affects how much you pay for a quality coat or jacket. I just picked up a $90 Calvin Klein coat for my step son for $12 at Macys. This time of year most retailers are looking to dump their winter apparel and it's a great time to buy.

Yes there is a big difference between TNF, or other high end coats / jackets and cheaper coats and jackets, the question is will you use it enough or use it in conditions where you will notice? For most people the answer is no you will not. Quality for TNF and other designer apparel is much higher than generic clothing, yes you pay for it but it is not wasted money if you need or want the quality. Medium to high end brands depend on maintaining their image so can not afford to have their product fall apart, people that buy a coat at Walmart or Target expect it to fall apart within a fairly short period of time under heavy use because the manufacturer is not selling quality they are selling a coat for as cheap as they can with the minimum amount of quality that will be tolerated by the consumer.

If you don't *need* the quality and don't care about the brand then go for what provides acceptable quality for how you are going to use it. Pretty much any coat is going to work for shoveling snow a few times a year. If you live in an arctic climate or are on the mountain's a lot your requirements will be higher. What I wore in Alaska for -60F is much different than Joe the accountant in CO shoveling snow in +20F weather.

We have three kids and buy high end coats, but buy them on sale (usually more than 50% off). We need to buy a new one every two or three years, when we bought lower quality coats we'd have to buy at least one coat per kid per year because cheaper coats just didn't stand up to the wear and tear kids put on them.
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frugaltype
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by frugaltype »

Quickfoot wrote:With Coats and Jackets its more *when* you buy that affects how much you pay for a quality coat or jacket. I just picked up a $90 Calvin Klein coat for my step son for $12 at Macys. This time of year most retailers are looking to dump their winter apparel and it's a great time to buy.
That's true. A few weeks ago I bought a casual snow shoveling type coat at, dare I say it, Sears, for $30. The only problem is it's several inches shorter than the llbean coat I have worn down, so it's not optimal, esp. at subzero temperatures.
mlipps
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by mlipps »

frugaltype wrote:I just looked at the Columbia and North Face websites, and don't see any coats, just jackets. Ditto the Burlington Coat factory is mostly jackets.

I'm in the market for a good winter coat for shoveling snow in and so on, and a jacket just isn't warm enough, plus I don't wear down stuff due to the humane issue, so it's hard to find something acceptable. I've worn my old llbean one, which they no longer make, down to frayed cuffs. I should have bought two.
It's too late in the season for them for the most part. Check the sale section & you might find some.

Personally, I buy winter coats from LLBean for primarily one reason. They show clearly on their website what temperatures a coat is designed for; no one else I've found does this. A coat can LOOK warm, but the last thing I want is to find it's really not on the coldest day of the year. My winter coat is rated to -40 degrees, and held up for me in Chicago's "Polar Vortex" weather last month. I've considered buying a coat from Columbia, as their styles are little more flattering, but I can't find this information on their site.

North face is just overpriced. Sorry, but $300-$400 for a parka? No way.
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by abuss368 »

I have only ever purchased Columbia. They last and often are heavily discounted at Kohl's, etc. this time of year.
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Rupert
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by Rupert »

As previous posters have said, what you're missing are quality and performance. Those $250-300 Patagonia and North Face parkas will have taped seams and use either superior waterproofing materials like GoreTex or high-quality, breathable fabrics. These attributes are important if you're skiing, mountain climbing, or backpacking, etc. For us mortals, I guess it's debatable whether those name brands are worth the price. I've always had good-enough luck with LL Bean.
Columbia is okay but is not in the same class as Patagonia and North Face. Columbia owns a high-end line called Mountain Hardware, which does compete with North Face and Patagonia. Think of Patagonia, Mountain Hardware and North Face as Lexus, Columbia as Toyota, and most off-brands as Kia.
SDBoggled
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by SDBoggled »

I support North Face quality... bought a jacket $150 10 years ago... and worn regularly throughout the years - thrown in washing machine and dryer.
I now have to replace it only because my son's girlfriend just acquired it.
surfstar
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by surfstar »

SierraTradingPost - sign up for their flyer emails and get some outstanding deals on the 'high end' jackets.

I just bought a Mountain Hardwear down jacket for ~38% of retail. It will be used for camping mainly, maybe backpacking.

Also if you are eco or socially conscious, Patagonia (aka Patagucci due to pricing!) is a great company to support. I have a friend that worked for Columbia, then went to Patagonia and they said the difference is huge (how they treat their employees, give back to community, etc).

For wearing around town, though, sure go with any deal you can find on something that will keep you warm enough. A classic meme was likely started when people saw so many TNF jackets in line at Starbucks:

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Rodc
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by Rodc »

Northface is not what it once was near as I can tell. Quality is not bad, but no longer bullet proof it seems, but little sold under that name is really made for serious mountaineering anymore. More profit in selling somewhat lesser quality to many who want to look like mountaineers as there are so many of them.

I bought two down jackets, medium and very heavy weight Mountain Hardwear a couple of years ago for the price I was willing to pay for one when I went into the store. Just happened I needed to replace an old LL Bean down jacket that bit the dust after many years of solid work in the spring and everything was on sale.

I use the medium weight mostly around town and the heavy one for winter mountaineering (mostly lives in the pack in case I get in trouble, but if the weather is particularly bad I do put it on while belaying my partner, for example).

It may not matter for most uses but the quality of the construction and down makes a difference. I am picky about the quality of the zipper. If it is blowing good and 0F and I am up on a climb or even hiking a wind raked ridge-line and I have to take my gloves off to get a finicky zipper going I am not going to be happy.
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Kevin21
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by Kevin21 »

I have 2 winter ll bean coats --- goose down parka and down waxed cotton.

I would rate both as A+.
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daytona084
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by daytona084 »

Nowizard wrote: Eventually, a coat was purchased that was of neither brand, though it had a nicer, zip-out lining, all the similar stitching, etc., but what seemed to be a ridiculous price of $60 at Burlington Coat Factory, not on sale.
What a coincidence. I also am wearing a $60 coat from Burlington Coat Factory, purchased probably 20 years ago. It keeps me warm, and shows no noticeable wear despite being my main winter coat every year since then. Let's see, that comes to about $3 per year. Maybe I don't know what I am missing.
Carl53
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by Carl53 »

I've got two Carhartts, one for down to perhaps 10 degrees, and one for below that. I used to wear dressier coats, but often felt let down with their wear or functionality. I have several other coats in the closet, but functionality has ruled since I've followed this website.

Better yet the older coat that has a matching coveralls (only for less than -10F), was made in USA while the newer coat (4 or 5 years old) was assembled in Mexico of US components.
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Nowizard
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by Nowizard »

Interesting comments with most stating that they do not buy the premium priced coats/jackets for any reason other than perceived/real quality. The one from Burlington is labeled "Free Country Extreme" or "FCXtreme." I have had jackets from TNF, and this one compares in every way that I can tell. The comment about see how it is doing in a few years may be valid. An LLB jacket from ten years ago is doing fine.

Tim
ThatGuy
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by ThatGuy »

The North Face is not what it once was. I have a hard time believing that plastic zippers can hold up to mountaineering, and it strikes me as nothing more than a capitalistic play on their trendiness.
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Kevin21
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by Kevin21 »

Nowizard wrote:Interesting comments with most stating that they do not buy the premium priced coats/jackets for any reason other than perceived/real quality. The one from Burlington is labeled "Free Country Extreme" or "FCXtreme." I have had jackets from TNF, and this one compares in every way that I can tell. The comment about see how it is doing in a few years may be valid. An LLB jacket from ten years ago is doing fine.

Tim
I should note that I got my LL Bean coats on ebay -- for much reduced prices.
Some may find this icky---- but I really hate winter, and I really hate overpaying. I have also gotten my ebay shopping down to a fine art.
halfnine
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by halfnine »

Nowizard wrote:I notice that a large number, perhaps even a majority, of people wear coats from either Columbia or Northface, the former being in somewhat lower numbers. Recently purchasing a winter coat led to these brands only to feel that they were overpriced. Eventually, a coat was purchased that was of neither brand, though it had a nicer, zip-out lining, all the similar stitching, etc., but what seemed to be a ridiculous price of $60 at Burlington Coat Factory, not on sale. This compared to anywhere from $250 to $300 for what appeared to be comparable coats from the brand name items. Am I missing something here? The coat has performed wonderfully this winter and received numerous compliments. What do other folks do when buying a winter coat?
What do I do? I buy both. I use the $60 variant for pretty much everything around town. And the high end, high price coat for when I am in the mountains AND when weight, space and performance are critical to my survival. I'll also mention that I don't consider either Columbia or TNF to be high end.
mcblum
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by mcblum »

go down to your local surplus store and get a genuine navy pea-coat. Best you will ever get and need.
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frugaltype
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by frugaltype »

Kevin21 wrote:I should note that I got my LL Bean coats on ebay -- for much reduced prices.
Some may find this icky---- but I really hate winter, and I really hate overpaying. I have also gotten my ebay shopping down to a fine art.
I've bought clothes on ebay. I go for the stuff with tags still attached, and they've all arrived obviously new. I don't know if stores are dumping unsold stock or what.
thewizzer
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by thewizzer »

frugaltype wrote:
Kevin21 wrote:I should note that I got my LL Bean coats on ebay -- for much reduced prices.
Some may find this icky---- but I really hate winter, and I really hate overpaying. I have also gotten my ebay shopping down to a fine art.
I've bought clothes on ebay. I go for the stuff with tags still attached, and they've all arrived obviously new. I don't know if stores are dumping unsold stock or what.
Can't counterfeiter's duplicate the tags as well? I only say that because I remember a case years ago where a local retailer was caught selling hundreds of pairs of counterfeit Nike shoes. Those shoes had boxes and the whole bit. It took an expert from the company to come in to explain the differences between the real and counterfeit goods.
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Gambler
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by Gambler »

many years ago I was looking for a new winter coat.

I had a gortex winter coat. it was good but I wanted a 3-in-1 (waterproof breathable shell + fleece in winter, and just the shell in fall/spring) because I became an avid skier.

bought all the cheap 3-in-1s at LL Bean that were on sale (~$50 to $75).
none kept me warm at 30F while wearing a t-shirt and long sleeve flannel shirt, even though all were rated between 0F and 20F. :(
returned them all.

then saw a waterproof breathable Columbia 3-in-1 on clearance at amazon for $30. bought it.
same as the LL bean ones. didn't feel warm at 30F.

so I replaced the light weight fleece with a medium weight fleece (polartec 200) for $25.
so for $55, I have a coat that keeps me warm when it's below freezing.

20/20 hindsight: should have bought the heavyweight fleece (polartec 300) for $50 for those few times i'm out when the temps fall to 0F.
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frugaltype
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by frugaltype »

thewizzer wrote:
frugaltype wrote:
Kevin21 wrote:I should note that I got my LL Bean coats on ebay -- for much reduced prices.
Some may find this icky---- but I really hate winter, and I really hate overpaying. I have also gotten my ebay shopping down to a fine art.
I've bought clothes on ebay. I go for the stuff with tags still attached, and they've all arrived obviously new. I don't know if stores are dumping unsold stock or what.
Can't counterfeiter's duplicate the tags as well? I only say that because I remember a case years ago where a local retailer was caught selling hundreds of pairs of counterfeit Nike shoes. Those shoes had boxes and the whole bit. It took an expert from the company to come in to explain the differences between the real and counterfeit goods.
I was looking for the tags as an indication of unwornness, not some luxury brand. Nothing I buy could be considered a luxury brand.
TRC
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by TRC »

mlipps wrote:
frugaltype wrote:
Personally, I buy winter coats from LLBean for primarily one reason. They show clearly on their website what temperatures a coat is designed for; no one else I've found does this. A coat can LOOK warm, but the last thing I want is to find it's really not on the coldest day of the year.
These temperature ratings are a little bit misleading IMO. One of the most important aspects of warmth is in your base layer (not part of the coat). If you wear a -40 degree coat with a t-shirt, you're likely going to be very cold in freezing weather. If you wear a thermal / wicking long sleeve base layer with a wool sweater, you'll be much warmer. The key is layering for the right temps.

The fit of the jacket is extremely important too. I've had some LL Bean shells and they felt were huge in terms of width. The more space between the jacket and your body, the more heat loss.
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frugaltype
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by frugaltype »

TRC wrote:
mlipps wrote:
frugaltype wrote:
Personally, I buy winter coats from LLBean for primarily one reason. They show clearly on their website what temperatures a coat is designed for; no one else I've found does this. A coat can LOOK warm, but the last thing I want is to find it's really not on the coldest day of the year.
These temperature ratings are a little bit misleading IMO. One of the most important aspects of warmth is in your base layer (not part of the coat). If you wear a -40 degree coat with a t-shirt, you're likely going to be very cold in freezing weather. If you wear a thermal / wicking long sleeve base layer with a wool sweater, you'll be much warmer. The key is layering for the right temps.

The fit of the jacket is extremely important too. I've had some LL Bean shells and they felt were huge in terms of width. The more space between the jacket and your body, the more heat loss.
I did not write what I'm quoted above as writing.
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gatorking
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by gatorking »

One detail that I consider important is the quality of the zipper- how easy is it to zip up with gloves on; does it tend to get caught in the fabric around it; does it open from the bottom (for long parkas, coats). The better the zipper, the more faith I have in the overall quality of the jacket/coat. The zipper is the canary in the coal mine, and the LL Bean canary is not faring well.
barnaclebob
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by barnaclebob »

ThatGuy wrote:The North Face is not what it once was. I have a hard time believing that plastic zippers can hold up to mountaineering, and it strikes me as nothing more than a capitalistic play on their trendiness.
I can't think of any brand including high end mountaineering and alpine climbing gear makers like Arc'Teryx, Marmot, Patagucci, OR etc that use metal zippers anymore.
autonomy
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Re: Winter coats:

Post by autonomy »

Quality outdoors clothing is expensive and I have finally started to understand why. The first question is, how well does it perform? The second is, how long does it last? You will find that the higher-end brands will usually last longer and perform better. You don't mention what the purpose of your coat is and you didn't explain the ways in which it 'performed well', so it's hard to judge if you really got a good deal on it.

There are winter coats and then there are winter coats. Brands like Columbia and TNF don't usually cater to the urban/snowshoveling crowd, there's a certain level of performance required of them. What this means is that when I buy a jacket, just like phatphoeater, I buy it for the specific activity I need it for. Let me explain - for the not-bitterly-cold winters we get in Mass I own two jackets, a windproof Marmot softshell bought at TJMaxx ($70), and a two-layer Columbia down jacket/waterproof shell bought on sale at REI ($200). Based on the conditions outside and my activity types, I will wear a combination of these plus several base layers. Neither of these is top-of-the-line stuff.

The soft shell keeps me warm and dry in the fall and all the way through winter with heavier base layers - I will use this for intensive activities like hiking or biking down to 10F. I use it to regulate my body temp that way. It is by far my most-warn garment, and I know what I can expect of it. If I am doing something less active and/or for more prolonged periods of time outside, I will wear the down jacket, as I won't be generating as much body heat. I used to overdress for shoveling snow - it's a pretty intensive activity and I would drip sweat within 10 minutes. Nowadays a light sweatshirt and my body heat keep me warm while the Columbia waterproof shell keeps me dry during shoveling. I once made the mistake of wearing a waterproof LLBean jacket during a bike ride, it trapped all the moisture, and by the time I finished, I was really hot, sweaty, and uncomfortable - wetter from the sweat than I would have been from the rain. The jacket did not perform well at all, which was a disappointing revelation. The Marmot jacket does an excellent job of wicking moisture away from my body. So does the Columbia waterproof/breathable shell, although it's obviously not as breathable.

Now, the Marmot jacket is 2 or 3 years old now, and I've been biking to work in it 4 days/week for 4 months now, which means it gets washed VERY often. It still looks fine - maybe not new, but definitely not worn out. There was an article a while back on one of the camping sites about a guy who was praising his 30-year-old capilene shirt from Patagonia... 30 years old! This stuff really does last. So, I think it's very much justified to spend a bit more on gear that performs and lasts - but do make sure you're getting something you need and love, as you'll want to keep it for a while.

So, what I'm saying is, you can get a 'winter coat' for $60, and it will be fine for shoveling snow or walking from your car to the store. Granted, a lot of people buy gear like this just because it's trendy and because of the 'adventurer' vibe that comes with them, but just like most SUV/truck drivers who never end up using their cars for the purpose they were made for, these people will never ever leave town even to go skiing. Most of the time, though, this gear is made with outdoor activities in mind and therefore comes with the expectation of performance.

As far as buying this stuff - I scour TJMaxx and REI and look for sales. REI usually has a good selection of clearance items, plus they have lots of sales and send coupons throughout the year. There's a Columbia outlet not too far as well, though I feel like Columbia quality has taken a huge nosedive. Both I and a friend of mine have good online experiences with Sierra Trading Post and BackCountry, though you can generally get only the things you're sure will fit you. Also keep in mind the prices reflect the warranty that comes with the clothing - e.g. Patagonia, as mentioned, will replace your garments - no questions asked.
gloomydog
Posts: 136
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:05 pm

Re: Winter coats:

Post by gloomydog »

I'm out for a couple hours in the MA cold almost daily with my dog.

Used to wear a very thick and heavy (and cheap) Gap coat that lasted 10 years. It was certainly warm, but it was very heavy and hard to carry. I think any of the quality brands like LL Bean, REI, Columbia, TNF make great outerwear that's lighter and looks good. Anyway I have a great TNF 2 layer coat that's >1 year old. It's warm (but not super warm), waterproof, very light, very expensive. I don't know about durability since it tore when dogs jumped on it, but was easily mended. (The old heavy and cheap Gap coat shrugged off roughyplay with dogs)

But if price is a concern, check out TJ Max for bargain priced brand name coats.
User avatar
Will do good
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Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:23 pm

Re: Winter coats:

Post by Will do good »

I used to buy what ever is cheaper at the big box store. Than I discover they don't last as long or stay as warm after few years of wear.
Now I buy Patagonia, it cost lot more. But the quality is much better and after 5 years, it's still much better than my cheaper jackets.
I believe you get what you pay for.
swaption
Posts: 1245
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:48 am

Re: Winter coats:

Post by swaption »

gloomydog wrote:
But if price is a concern, check out TJ Max for bargain priced brand name coats.
Better yet, Sierra Trading Post is owned by TJ Max, and you can get really good deals on some high quality stuff with their periodic e-mailed coupons. I actually found my way there due to the mention of the Marmot Precip jacket on this forum, and got it there for $50. I have since bought quite a number of things. Kind of become my go to site for anything from housewares, wool dress socks, ski apparel, hiking boots, etc.
surfstar
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Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:17 pm
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

Re: Winter coats:

Post by surfstar »

A cool video on/by Patagonia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z20CjCim8DM
Alf 101
Posts: 424
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:24 am

Re: Winter coats:

Post by Alf 101 »

I may be coming a bit late to this party, but let me offer my $0.02. Having worked as an alpine guide for many years, I've had access and own a fairly large stable of winter/adverse weather clothing. So here's what I've concluded.

The first questions are what do you want the jacket for, and what do you want to do wearing it? The most expensive clothing is weatherproof, but also light and supporting freedom of movement, and offering some breathability. If you are climbing mountains, and on multi-week expeditions, this clothing proves its worth. If you are shoveling snow, waiting for the bus, walking the dog, or going to the grocery store -- you needn't feel compelled to spend so much. Several posters have already made this point.

When looking for outdoor clothing, there are several different niches. There are hard shells: water and wind-proof layers, best for foul conditions. There are soft shells: water and wind resistant layers, more breathable, and better for activity. There are insulation layers: down or it's synthetic analog, or fleece. And lastly there are base layers, or long underwear.

While the tendency is to debate between the merits of different brands, once I figure out the category I want (e.g., hardshell, softshell) I'd look at the fabric. You will see similar performance between Gore-Tex Pro or eVent jackets, or between Primaloft or Wind Pro fleece as insulation, regardless of the label. You can find well-made clothing from outdoor house brands -- REI or EMS, for example -- using the same fabrics at a notably lower cost than the marquee brands.

One big consideration is fit, which can vary by brand. Arc'teryx doesn't fit me, and XL on Patagonia and L on Outdoor Research seem much the same. This is where it helps to visit and outdoor store and try a few things on -- if contemplating such a purchase -- as body types vary quite a bit. You also may gain a premium in durability. Note which companies offer lifetime warranties. For example, I had a zipper wear out on an Outdoor Research jacket, and send it in for full replacement at no additional cost. Knowing you have this level of customer service softens the blow somewhat of a higher price.

We'll soon enter into the time of year where we see the greatest sales and discounts on winter clothing, making now a good time to start looking around.

In the interest of full disclosure, the gear I've got the most use out of were made by Feathered Friends (Lexus analogy applies), Outdoor Research, Wild Things, Patagonia, Sierra Designs, and REI. I also wear a Carhartt Jacket, and have a few Columbia sweatshirts, which I probably wear more around town.
programmer
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:33 pm

Western Mountaineering

Post by programmer »

I'm always cold, but I got this jacket as a gift at Xmas and made it through the polar vortex (vortices) in total warmth.

http://www.westernmountaineering.com/in ... ntentId=76

A big plus is that they make most of their stuff in the USA and Canada.
angelescrest
Posts: 1730
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 10:48 am
Location: West Coast

Re: Winter coats:

Post by angelescrest »

Alf 101 wrote:I may be coming a bit late to this party, but let me offer my $0.02. Having worked as an alpine guide for many years, I've had access and own a fairly large stable of winter/adverse weather clothing. So here's what I've concluded.

The first questions are what do you want the jacket for, and what do you want to do wearing it? The most expensive clothing is weatherproof, but also light and supporting freedom of movement, and offering some breathability. If you are climbing mountains, and on multi-week expeditions, this clothing proves its worth. If you are shoveling snow, waiting for the bus, walking the dog, or going to the grocery store -- you needn't feel compelled to spend so much. Several posters have already made this point.

When looking for outdoor clothing, there are several different niches. There are hard shells: water and wind-proof layers, best for foul conditions. There are soft shells: water and wind resistant layers, more breathable, and better for activity. There are insulation layers: down or it's synthetic analog, or fleece. And lastly there are base layers, or long underwear.

While the tendency is to debate between the merits of different brands, once I figure out the category I want (e.g., hardshell, softshell) I'd look at the fabric. You will see similar performance between Gore-Tex Pro or eVent jackets, or between Primaloft or Wind Pro fleece as insulation, regardless of the label. You can find well-made clothing from outdoor house brands -- REI or EMS, for example -- using the same fabrics at a notably lower cost than the marquee brands.

One big consideration is fit, which can vary by brand. Arc'teryx doesn't fit me, and XL on Patagonia and L on Outdoor Research seem much the same. This is where it helps to visit and outdoor store and try a few things on -- if contemplating such a purchase -- as body types vary quite a bit. You also may gain a premium in durability. Note which companies offer lifetime warranties. For example, I had a zipper wear out on an Outdoor Research jacket, and send it in for full replacement at no additional cost. Knowing you have this level of customer service softens the blow somewhat of a higher price.

We'll soon enter into the time of year where we see the greatest sales and discounts on winter clothing, making now a good time to start looking around.

In the interest of full disclosure, the gear I've got the most use out of were made by Feathered Friends (Lexus analogy applies), Outdoor Research, Wild Things, Patagonia, Sierra Designs, and REI. I also wear a Carhartt Jacket, and have a few Columbia sweatshirts, which I probably wear more around town.
OP, this is some good input. Intended use should ultimately determine what you get. There are so many factors to outdoor gear to consider--and mentioned above are some of them.

To add to comments made about durability, weatherproofing, etc, keep in mind that weight is a significant factor for many outdoor sporting enthusiasts. Whether you're climbing, backpacking, through-hiking, whatever it might be, a lot of jackets are expensive because while they do what any general L.L. Bean or Eddie Bauer jacket can do--they just weigh much less. You pay a premium for it, because in some sports every ounce counts.

Also, remember that some companies like TNF and Patagonia, as was mentioned earlier, have an image and brand that some people feel you're needlessly paying for. I've seen both companies, and some others, sell products that are functionally average, and yet are ridiculously expensive. Some enthusiasts, certainly not a majority, feel that they are catering their products more for wealthy urban clientele than for any specific use. With that said, in both cases, these companies also make phenomenal products in their sports/active lines that are some of the industry's best. The challenge the consumer has is in identifying which of their products are actually worth the money, and which ones are designed purely as fashion items.
NoVa Lurker
Posts: 690
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:14 am

Re: Winter coats:

Post by NoVa Lurker »

gatorking wrote:One detail that I consider important is the quality of the zipper- how easy is it to zip up with gloves on; does it tend to get caught in the fabric around it; does it open from the bottom (for long parkas, coats). The better the zipper, the more faith I have in the overall quality of the jacket/coat. The zipper is the canary in the coal mine, and the LL Bean canary is not faring well.
barnaclebob wrote:
ThatGuy wrote:The North Face is not what it once was. I have a hard time believing that plastic zippers can hold up to mountaineering, and it strikes me as nothing more than a capitalistic play on their trendiness.
I can't think of any brand including high end mountaineering and alpine climbing gear makers like Arc'Teryx, Marmot, Patagucci, OR etc that use metal zippers anymore.
Completely agree that the zipper is the canary in the coal mine of quality. Obviously, plastic can be constructed at every level of quality.

On my toddler's $6 sweatshirts from The Children's Place, the zippers seem to break after only a month or two. (This is not fun when he has become extremely attached to a particular sweatshirt.) On my North Face jacket, the zipper has lasted 8+ years. Both are plastic.

I do suspect, literally just from pulling the zippers up and down, that the newer North Face jackets are constructed at a lower level of quality than in the past.
Alf 101
Posts: 424
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:24 am

Re: Winter coats:

Post by Alf 101 »

I will add that every system has a point of first failure, and for quality outdoor gear that's the zipper. The stitching shouldn't rip, the fabric shouldn't tear, but the zipper is the weak point. If there's one thing that puts me through the roof, it's people cranking violently on a tent zipper. This can make for a series of long nights.

In examining a piece of outdoor clothing, I'll take into account the gauge of the zipper. Most zippers don't initially look cheap, but a very small zipper on a jacket, even if in the interest of shaving weight, augurs trouble down the road.

In my experience, mostly when a zipper fails is when it loosens and fails to track. This can be addressed in the field by gently clamping down on the zipper head with your multi-tool pliers. I've been able to keep a jacket in play for a long time with this trick, though you can see that as a symbol of the beginning of the end.

I mentioned this earlier, but this is where warranty factors in as you look at different brands. Outdoor Research, for example, offers an "Infinite Guarantee" that is much as it sounds. REI has a fantastic return policy. Patagonia also has good customer service, along with warranty and repair offerings. This is something to consider along with the initial cost.
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