Download your "paperless statements" frequently

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bogleviewer
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Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by bogleviewer »

For those of you who opt for paperless statements from institutions here is a public service announcement: Download Them Frequently from your Institution.

I have a routine of every January going into all of my accounts and downloading, month by month, the PDF statements. Credit cards, bank accounts, investment accounts, etc. It is tedious but then again so is opening up pieces of mail throughout the year and filing into the filing cabinet with no easy access.

I have had a US Bank account for 5 years of which got little use. I had a few automatic bill pays out of it and every once in awhile a deposit if it was more convenient than one of my other banks.

As part of my goals in 2014 was to decrease the amount of accounts I have as it is tedious documenting so many accounts, several of which get very little use. US Bank was the first to go. The last week of December I went into my local US Bank and closed the account and got the funds in the form of a cashiers check. An American Express card that has an annual fee was the next to go with a simple phone call.

Fast forward a few weeks into January 2014. I hop online to download my 2013 statements from all of my institutions. I get to US Bank, login, and there is nothing there. I literally get a "Welcome <NAME>" prompt in the top right with logoff and profile but no accounts, no statements, no account activity history, etc. DOH! :oops: So I used my online logged in access portal to send a secure message to a US Bank rep asking to update my account with my electronic statements for 2013 so that I may download and then they can hide them again. Two days later they respond saying "We have provided your statements while you were a customer of ours. Because of this, if you want statements please send a letter to <ADDRESS> including your account number, name, social, address, etc as well as a check written out to US Bank for $6 per statement month."

I replied back using the secure message "I do apologize, I figured with the advancement in technology that you would have my online account active (as it is) with my account details simply showing the account closed and having access to the statements atleast for a period of time. I just cancelled an American Express card and I still have access to several years worth of statements on my customer portal with them. Can you make an exception and simply release the 2013 statements or email them, whatever you have to do that is easiest for you? This is a miscommunication and would like for the fee to be waived."

US Bank rep (different one) reply back 2 days later "As stated in the previous message to you, we provided statements to you while you were a customer. If you want statements, you'll have to pay the $6 per statement. Please send payment along with your account number, name, social, address, etc to <ADDRESS>."

So, again, download your statements frequently and if you go to close an account make sure to download them before closing the account. :P
Last edited by bogleviewer on Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
lightheir
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by lightheir »

I wouldn't say download FREQUENTLY, but as you've found (and as I've found the hard way as well), it is worth downloading your financial statements once or twice per year for your own records. You might think that your online account will provided all the access you ever need - until it doesn't. The main ones I ran into were closing an account, as well as IT overhauls which changed to format of prior statements and then required special requests to access.

Most banks hold your records for at least a few years but even those go by pretty quickly.

I do a big download once a year around tax time. It's a bit laborious, but it's worth it to me. Fortunately, I've trimmed my investments down Bogleheads style to a minimalist style account - the taxable investment account is the easiest of my accounts to download statements!
nhrdls
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by nhrdls »

You might find https://www.finovera.com service interesting. Its free and downloads your statements from many institutions and providers. There was a review on tech crunch few months back at http://techcrunch.com/2013/11/19/finove ... one-place/.
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rob
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by rob »

Looks interesting but I have the same issue as with all this stuff.... ING is the only provider I know of that lets you create a read only id/password for these things.... otherwise you have to give them your id/password which is no doubt against the tiny writing on all those agreements no one reads and obvious security issues :shock:
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien
Sidney
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by Sidney »

Since I go into my accounts weekly to check for fraud, there really isn't any overhead associated with pulling the statements.
I always wanted to be a procrastinator.
FanOfBogle
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by FanOfBogle »

In addition to finovera.com, I would like to add
https://www.manilla.com/
They keep your statements for life. I have been using them for a couple years and it works well. I only use it for the statement keeping, I do not really use it for anything else.
rotorhead
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by rotorhead »

Every month I get an email from Fidelity, Vanguard, Bank of America telling me my statement is ready for viewing; and to click on the appropriate link to do so. I do so, log in; and immediately down load the statement in PDF format to my computer into the appropriate file. It's done. Takes about a minute or two.

What's difficult about that?
lightheir
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by lightheir »

Sidney wrote:Since I go into my accounts weekly to check for fraud, there really isn't any overhead associated with pulling the statements.
I no longer do this. I DO check my cc purchases, but only once every quarter or so, using Mint. I've caught rare cases of fraud, but even those were small.
Caduceus
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by Caduceus »

Oops! You don't need all your statements though. You could just pay $6 for the last statement and retain that for your own records. At the very least, it will show that your account was zeroed out and closed in good standing.
obgraham
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by obgraham »

I don't find it such a hassle to download each statement as it is issued. And I keep them all. What's a few megabytes among the terabyte drives we all have. I frequently go back out of curiosity -- "what did I pay for that thingydo in 2009?" And there are many businesses that only keep a couple of months' statements in their archives.

So it's a bit of OCD. So what, there are worse vices in this world!
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William4u
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by William4u »

Wood heat is (obviously) available in your area and is a small fraction of the cost of oil heat. A wood stove can be found on craigslist and/or professionally installed, and will pay for itself quickly.
Sidney
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by Sidney »

William4u wrote:Wood heat is (obviously) available in your area and is a small fraction of the cost of oil heat. A wood stove can be found on craigslist and/or professionally installed, and will pay for itself quickly.
Harder to get the fires started with paperless statements.
I always wanted to be a procrastinator.
pkempfur
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by pkempfur »

What I'd really love is for the financial institutions to allow me set up a "statement encryption password" and just email me the encrypted PDF statements/transaction confirmations etc.
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runner9
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by runner9 »

I still use Microsoft Money for all of our cash accounts. I try to get paper statements, but for electronic I view, balance and delete. I can always go into MM and see what was paid for when, etc.
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modal
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by modal »

I've gotten past fees by saying I needed to show account history for XXXXXXXX (in my case it was for immigration).
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frugaltype
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by frugaltype »

It was an unpleasant surprise when I closed one of my Schwab accounts a few years ago and poof all the information vanished from the web in a few days. I at least expected it to persist until the end of the year.

Now I am careful to save offline copies of anything I want.

Another gotcha is institutions who only keep things online for open accounts for a limited period of time, like 18 months. One credit union I have an account with only has three months of stuff online.
jebmke
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by jebmke »

The year-end Vanguard statements would be more useful if they included all the brokerage transactions for the full year. Without this, you are really forced to keep monthly statements if you want a complete picture via statements. Of course, if you have the transaction confirms combined with the annual statement that should be complete.

It isn't that difficult to download the statements monthly so I do it anyway. I just remember to do it when I make my monthly draw for spending money.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
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midareff
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by midareff »

With all the hackers and threats "out there" I prefer to download and review investment statements monthly, although I may check account activity more frequently. I review credit primary card(s) and bank activity online no less than weekly. As a friend once said; You are not paranoid unless they really are out to get you. BTW, a close friend was recently "Target hit" and my cc company has sent me new cards with different account numbers twice in the last year, unsolicited. It's your money, check up on it at any schedule you like.
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Jay69
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by Jay69 »

This is the one big reason I like Quicken, about every other week I download from all of our accounts to look for any funny biz going on. Will check online every so often for the main accounts (one login). But you are right its a good idea to download the statements, I do it one time a year, I still need to get around to downloading 2013!
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Saving$
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by Saving$ »

Questions for those using Manilla or Finovera

1. Can you sign up for this without using the Bill Pay portion?
I'm interested in using it as aggregator for my non-financial statements only. I would put my water invoices (more than one due to irrigation meter), power, natural gas, phone, internet, cell on the site, so I would only need to log on to one site and could get all my statements, for more than one house, at once.

2. Is there any way to see who is signed up with Finovera? I'm particularly interested in finding out if my City's water and natural gas companies belong, as neither belongs to Manilla.
Sriracha
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by Sriracha »

Granted, it's a little bit of a PITA, but I log on and get my statements every month when I'm doing the e-only thing.
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Epsilon Delta
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by Epsilon Delta »

If you find monthly download to be a PITA you might consider using wget from a script file. You may spend more time debugging and monitoring a script than tediously clicking on a bunch of links, but you may feel it's time better spent.

If you think I should have included a link to wget or it's documentation you are probably not a candidate for doing this. :shock:
BuckyBadger
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by BuckyBadger »

It would never occur to me that I would be able to view online statements for accounts that I had closed. I would definitely plan on downloading everything before closing the account.
vital15
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by vital15 »

Out of curiosity - why do you need to keep copies of monthly statements for all of your accounts? I don't download paperless statments and I shred any that come in the mail. Most firms keep several years available online (assuming you don't close the account), and while that gives me some comfort when I shred, I can't really think of any reasons why I would need to go back and look at old statements.
sscritic
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by sscritic »

vital15 wrote: I can't really think of any reasons why I would need to go back and look at old statements.
To answer questions on bogleheads about 1992 or even 2012. Another thread asked about utility bills in Southern California. I pulled out my old bills from when I was a renter and gave factual information (rather than just blowing smoke). Keeping old statements is done as a public service to all.
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bogleviewer
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by bogleviewer »

vital15 wrote:Out of curiosity - why do you need to keep copies of monthly statements for all of your accounts?
To see where all of the money goes and comes from. Also potentially incase of a IRS inquiry if you need to prove something.
pshonore
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by pshonore »

sscritic wrote:
vital15 wrote: I can't really think of any reasons why I would need to go back and look at old statements.
To answer questions on bogleheads about 1992 or even 2012. Another thread asked about utility bills in Southern California. I pulled out my old bills from when I was a renter and gave factual information (rather than just blowing smoke). Keeping old statements is done as a public service to all.
Are we going to see you on the TV show "Hoarders Unlimited"? Just kidding of course. My wife is certain I will be featured on that show someday. Although I do not keep old utility bills, I do have an excel s/s that has a line for each month showing consumption, price etc. A few years ago I threw out all my 401K statements. I rolled it to an IRA in 2005 so they were not of much use. I think we're spoiled with all this online access. Most of those 401K statements were from the day when there was no online access, the account got valued once a month and transactions (transfers from fund to fund, withdrawals, etc) were made only at the end of the month. Life was simpler back then. One had a good long time to think about switching things around, etc
pradador
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by pradador »

I've been using https://filethis.com/fetch/ for those of you comfortable with online services. It drops my statements into Evernote automatically and can be configured for many destinations.
linenfort
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by linenfort »

I use mint to check for fraud, but in this age of cheap data storage, I download statements about every quarter and back them up all the time.
PDFs are searchable -- most of my statements didn't used to be -- and I find it convenient to check them when something comes up.

Also, I have found numerous reasons to keep a printable document file where online sign-in simply won't cut it:
1) applying for a home equity loan
2) homeland security, and whatever division they used to call INS (USCIS?)
etc

For those who haven't read from post #1, it looks like there are at least three links to check out:

finovera and its review ;
manilla ;
filethis’ fetch

I haven't read through yet so I don't know if they are merely statement-gathering versions of Mint. I don't know why I should be leery of them since I have been using Mint comfortably for years, but I guess it's always wise to proceed with caution.
lightheir
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by lightheir »

vital15 wrote:Out of curiosity - why do you need to keep copies of monthly statements for all of your accounts? I don't download paperless statments and I shred any that come in the mail. Most firms keep several years available online (assuming you don't close the account), and while that gives me some comfort when I shred, I can't really think of any reasons why I would need to go back and look at old statements.
Oveverall I do agree with your sentiment that you almost never will need the old statements. It's the very rare times you do when you start keeping them.

The situations that made me start keeping them on my own:
- IRS inquiry for capital gains for stocks purchased 10+yrs ago
- Home loan that requested 3 years of statements from bank AND income stubs
- The only case I've ever had of a bank error - $700 double charge (this was over 10 years ago) that I had missed in my reconciliations, and they refunded it 2 years after the date.
gkaplan
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by gkaplan »

rotorhead wrote:Every month I get an email from Fidelity, Vanguard, Bank of America telling me my statement is ready for viewing; and to click on the appropriate link to do so. I do so, log in; and immediately down load the statement in PDF format to my computer into the appropriate file. It's done. Takes about a minute or two.

What's difficult about that?
Vanguard only sends me a quarterly notice. I don't click on the email link, but I do access my statement through a bookmark and print my statement.
Gordon
nhrdls
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by nhrdls »

Epsilon Delta wrote:If you find monthly download to be a PITA you might consider using wget from a script file. You may spend more time debugging and monitoring a script than tediously clicking on a bunch of links, but you may feel it's time better spent.

If you think I should have included a link to wget or it's documentation you are probably not a candidate for doing this. :shock:
Wget might not be right candidate for this. Depending upon the bank, user will need to handle hurdles such as multi factor authentication, session cookies and javascript driven sites which use ajax. Not saying it can not be done, but very painful.
nhrdls
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by nhrdls »

vital15 wrote:Out of curiosity - why do you need to keep copies of monthly statements for all of your accounts? I don't download paperless statments and I shred any that come in the mail. Most firms keep several years available online (assuming you don't close the account), and while that gives me some comfort when I shred, I can't really think of any reasons why I would need to go back and look at old statements.
It becomes very important to keep track of shares/funds prices for purchases/sales especially if you are on automatic investment plan. If you are using other means such as quicken or gnucash, you may have data. I was not using any software and nor was I saving statements. Had a very painful experience dealing with IRS demanding lot of money on 3 years old returns or show proof.
inbox788
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by inbox788 »

FanOfBogle wrote:In addition to finovera.com, I would like to add
https://www.manilla.com/
They keep your statements for life. I have been using them for a couple years and it works well. I only use it for the statement keeping, I do not really use it for anything else.
When I saw the earlier posting about finovera.com, I couldn't think of the name of another service that sounded like it did same thing. Thank for mentioning manilla.com, which is what I was thinking of. Now, since these startups are vulnerable to closing (finovera is still showing beta on their home page), what is the backup plan? Is it possible to cross-store or transfer the documents between these (and any other similar types of services)? Is there a download/backup to local computer?

I'm probably going to try manilla.com, but I've been having a hell of a time trying to keep up with account aggregation on BoA site (I believe they're yodlee based). Every month, a couple of account links break, and requires manual intervention. I only have between 10-20 accounts. I can see the number manilla.com account to be greater (phone, utilities, etc.), and harder to keep synced up.

BTW, in looking at comparisions between finovera and manilla (few and far between), I came across another candidate: https://www.doxo.com (which is the first time I've heard of them, as well as finovera).
Last edited by inbox788 on Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
technovelist
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by technovelist »

This is VERY IMPORTANT if you happen to have several lots of one security at Fidelity and happen to request share certificates for those lots.

Don't ask me how I know. :oops:
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lightheir
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by lightheir »

inbox788 wrote:
FanOfBogle wrote:In addition to finovera.com, I would like to add
https://www.manilla.com/
They keep your statements for life. I have been using them for a couple years and it works well. I only use it for the statement keeping, I do not really use it for anything else.
When I saw the earlier posting about finovera.com, I couldn't think of the name of another service that sounded like it did same thing. Thank for mentioning manilla.com, which is what I was thinking of. Now, since these startups are vulnerable to closing (finovera is still showing beta on their home page), what is the backup plan? Is it possible to cross-store or transfer the documents between these (and any other similar types of services)? Is there a download/backup to local computer?

I'm probably going to try manilla.com, but I've been having a hell of a time trying to keep up with account aggregation on BoA site (I believe they're yodlee based). Every month, a couple of account links break, and requires manual intervention. I only have between 10-20 accounts. I can see the number manilla.com account to be greater (phone, utilities, etc.), and harder to keep synced up.

BTW, in looking at comparisions between finovera and manilla (few and far between), I came across another candidate: https://www.doxo.com (which is the first time I've heard of them, as well as finovera).
I think those services are best used as convenient aggregators by which you can then easily download the records to your own hard drive/cloud drive. They haven't been around enough to be deemed reliable for long-term storage - even the vaunted mint.com shouldn't be considered in that category.
inbox788
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by inbox788 »

lightheir wrote:I think those services are best used as convenient aggregators by which you can then easily download the records to your own hard drive/cloud drive. They haven't been around enough to be deemed reliable for long-term storage - even the vaunted mint.com shouldn't be considered in that category.
These services are all relatively new, and changes is going to be ongoing for a while. Fees might be around the corner if they can't get enough support from the bill providers. Also, smaller utilities, like water and trash service might take a while to show up. I couldn't find my local water or trash on manilla. I did find water listed in doxo, but was disappointed that they didn't provide any services. The good thing is that you can search without creating an account, while I didn't see that function on the other two. I did link up my Chase account to manilla, but they don't support documents :confused Looks like it's been an issue for at least a year now, and since a solution hasn't been found yet, I assume it's not a technical one, but a business one.

The limited accounts is going to be a deterrent to using these services when only a third or half the bills can be stored. Hopefully, they keep at it until a good 75-90% of all bills can be electronically stored. Then it would be desirable. For now, it's an uphill battle to keep account logins up to date. I don't have most of the account info on hand for these billing companies, and they're likely to be lost very quickly after setup.

Update: Manilla, without Chase, which I have 3 accounts, no water/trash, whatever other missing documents, and constant updates to logings, I'm not hopeful it's going to be that useful. I signed on to finovera to take a look and it's also an uphill struggle. I did like the templates they had for categories (Academic, Automobile, Financial, Home Related, IDs and Other Documents, Insurance, Legal, Medical, Miscellaneous, ,Purchases and Warranties, Tax) which show the potential organization of what can be eliminated from the file cabinet, though security breaches could really wreck havoc on your online life. Nothing that doesn't come from someone breaking into your home and taking all the same physical information, but the potential for any hacker anywhere around the world getting a hold of all that personal information should cause some pause. I'm starting with utility bills and credit card bills, which should have limited damage. Financial, ID, Legal, etc are all categories I'd defer till I have far more confidence in these services.
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bogleviewer
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by bogleviewer »

OP HERE
Just got back from US Bank branch. Explained what happened and they didn't care one bit. I asked to speak with the manager who was sitting next to the teller at a little desk doing some type of reconciliation with physical checks. She didn't even look up and said "no, I can't waive the fee. If you want statements they are $6 each." I said "but I had electronic delivery which were on my online portal and figured it would retain there for at least a little bit of time after a closure. Can't you make an exception on this, seems a little ridiculous to immediately purge my online electronic statements data."

Again, she didn't even look up and said "I can't wait the fee for statements."

What happened to customer service? I've noticed a continual decline in how little big organizations seem to care about customers (or even in this case, past customers). Or maybe it is a new age management style where big organizations don't give any power or authority to low level managers. I dunno, oh well, sort of pathetic but so be it. They won't be getting any of my $6 bills. :)
pradador
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by pradador »

bogleviewer wrote:Can't you make an exception on this, seems a little ridiculous to immediately purge my online electronic statements data."
Just curious, is it possible to re-open the account and re-gain access to the statements?
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bogleviewer
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by bogleviewer »

pradador wrote:
bogleviewer wrote:Can't you make an exception on this, seems a little ridiculous to immediately purge my online electronic statements data."
Just curious, is it possible to re-open the account and re-gain access to the statements?
Just sent them a "secure message". We shall see, didn't even think about it but I'm guessing a big fat no. :) I'll post back here when they reply (2 to 3 business days seems to be their turn time)
MnD
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by MnD »

bogleviewer wrote:
vital15 wrote:Out of curiosity - why do you need to keep copies of monthly statements for all of your accounts?
To see where all of the money goes and comes from. Also potentially incase of a IRS inquiry if you need to prove something.
I'm paperless for everything possible and have never downloaded a statement other than those directly associated with my tax returns (W-2's 1099's etc).
There's no shortage of opportunities to see where money goes and comes from with on-line resources.
In the highly unlikely event of an IRS inquiry, the chances you'll also need statements that aren't directly associated with your tax return and that also aren't available on-line are very remote. And they would still be available on request in this very unlikely scenario.
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bogleviewer
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by bogleviewer »

bogleviewer wrote:
pradador wrote:
bogleviewer wrote:Can't you make an exception on this, seems a little ridiculous to immediately purge my online electronic statements data."
Just curious, is it possible to re-open the account and re-gain access to the statements?
Just sent them a "secure message". We shall see, didn't even think about it but I'm guessing a big fat no. :) I'll post back here when they reply (2 to 3 business days seems to be their turn time)
They replied today saying that reopening the account will have no bearing on old statements and if I wish to order old statements I will need to pay $6 per statement.

Lost a customer for life.
mlipps
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Re: Download your "paperless statements" frequently

Post by mlipps »

When I sent my final payment to Wells Fargo for my student loan, my account was shut down THE VERY NEXT DAY! I wasn't even sure I'd paid it in full until I received a letter in the mail two weeks later. In addition to the obvious account history that I lost, it was during tax season and I had signed up for electronic 1098-E's. Luckily, I'd already printed mine...
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