New car now?

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qwerty3020
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New car now?

Post by qwerty3020 »

Tomorrow I need to either buy a new car or perform critical maintenance on my current car. Tell me what to do bogleheads!

I drive a 1999 Toyota Corolla with 145k miles. I'm the original owner (It was a graduation gift- thanks Dad!). In short, the car runs great but looks terrible. (Details: Its never broken down. The paint is very badly faded and peeling on most of the body. The bumper has a big dent from a hit-and-run 7 years ago. The doorhandles have broken and needed to be replaced several times. Sometimes the windows get stuck open. The upholstery is crumbling on the ceiling. ) Also the breaks are squeaking which means $400-$700 on upkeep if I don't buy a new car. I'm not sure the car is even worth that much.

Part of me thinks I should buy a new car now. I like the 2014 Corolla. I'm mom to a toddler and I want her to be safe. And, I hate to admit it, but my pride chafes a bit at driving such an ugly car. I have the money. But part of me thinks that because the car runs well I should just wait until it breaks down, which could be next week or the next decade. I've been thinking about this for several months, but I just can't decide. Help!
dbltrbl
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Re: New car now?

Post by dbltrbl »

have a mechanic check it out as far as safety is concerned. If it is safe than do not worry about looks. Index funds are not good looking but they do great. Same in transportation.

If it is not mechanically sound, get a new ride. If worried with 145k, relax. I have driven all of my cars over 200k except one. THat had a premature death due to an accident. My current ride, Honda Accord 177000 miles and runs great.

If it is the vanity and you have money go for new one. You do want to enjoy life along the way.
DEBTINATOR
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Re: New car now?

Post by DEBTINATOR »

You sound quite reasonable, I'd get the new car. But buying a new car with < 1 day of shopping will not get you the best deal.
lrak
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Re: New car now?

Post by lrak »

You have a great car for learning how to be your own mechanic. It is a very popular car. There are LOTS of forum how-to's and youtube video how-to's its easy to learn to maintain a Corolla. You also have a car that if you damage it trying to fix it, you aren't out much. If you DIY you'll find that new front pads, front rotors, and rear shoes are only about $100 and changing them isn't rocket science.

While I have an '08 Tacoma, I still commute in my ugly '94 Corolla with 207k.
BuckyBadger
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Re: New car now?

Post by BuckyBadger »

Does the car have ESC? I wouldn't put my (hypothetical) toddler in a 1999 anything unless I didn't have any other choice.

Safety DOES advance, and those advances have value.
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Steelersfan
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Re: New car now?

Post by Steelersfan »

I just sold my 1997 Camry with 90,000 miles on it. I was still mechanically sound and the exterior and interior were fine but it started to make lots of road noise from the frame loosening up after all those years and miles. I got a 2014 Corolla, which is almost exactly the same size as my 1997 Camry and it's got lots of safely and electronic additions.

The Toyota dealers in my area have gone to "No Hassle Pricing" which is about $500 (I just checked and it's even more today) better than what the major auto review sites say is a "good deal". I bought it on the spot and thought I got a good enough deal.

i don't know if you can get the car in one day, but 2 or 3 is certainly possible. You'll have to ask.
Andyrunner
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Re: New car now?

Post by Andyrunner »

You mentioned a toddler. Are you planning on having more kids?

Just asking as my wife has a 09 Corolla. We can bairly fit the infant carseat in it. If you have another kid, you will need a bigger car. Maybe the Camry?
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Blue
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Re: New car now?

Post by Blue »

BuckyBadger wrote:Does the car have ESC? I wouldn't put my (hypothetical) toddler in a 1999 anything unless I didn't have any other choice.

Safety DOES advance, and those advances have value.

+1 -

I'd buy a new car for the safety enhancements alone.
denovo
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Re: New car now?

Post by denovo »

I'd buy a new car, but not within one day. A good deal will take a couple of days. You've rode this car for 14 years, you shouldn't feel guilty about buying a new one.

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... 1&t=124638

I like this guy's car tips, he seems like a genius.
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tyrion
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Re: New car now?

Post by tyrion »

lrak wrote:You have a great car for learning how to be your own mechanic. It is a very popular car. There are LOTS of forum how-to's and youtube video how-to's its easy to learn to maintain a Corolla. You also have a car that if you damage it trying to fix it, you aren't out much. If you DIY you'll find that new front pads, front rotors, and rear shoes are only about $100 and changing them isn't rocket science.

While I have an '08 Tacoma, I still commute in my ugly '94 Corolla with 207k.

Good advice, but I think you missed that the OP is a Mom with a toddler. Not ideal circumstances for doing your own brake job, although maybe there is another adult in the picture who would want to take it on. I like mechanical projects and have fixed a few things on my 2001 Escape, but I think I draw the line at brakes. Those are an important safety feature that I don't want to mess with.
vkfu
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Re: New car now?

Post by vkfu »

We replaced a 1998 Accord with a new one because of the improved safety features (anti-lock brakes, traction control, backup camera, more air bags, etc)
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Watty
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Re: New car now?

Post by Watty »

Blue wrote:
BuckyBadger wrote:Does the car have ESC? I wouldn't put my (hypothetical) toddler in a 1999 anything unless I didn't have any other choice.

Safety DOES advance, and those advances have value.

+1 -

I'd buy a new car for the safety enhancements alone.
+1000

The new cars likely have also have side air bags and maybe a backup camera too. Even the standard driver and passenger air bags are a lot better now.

Some things on cars just get old with age too and are much more likely to strand you somewhere, like a dangerous highway, even though they might not be all that expensive to fix.

My car ownership strategy is to buy new base model reliable cars like Toyota's or Honda's then keep them for about ten years or 150K miles then sell them even if they are still working well. You would be surprised at how much a ten year old Toyota will sell for. This means that I can have a very reliable car that should require little non-routine maintenance for a very reasonable monthly cost. I sold my last Camry when it was nine years old and had $130K miles on it. It was in unusually good shape and I had all the records and I was able to sell it for about a third of what it cost when it was new. When you look at the purchase price less what I sold it for it only cost about $125 a month in depreciation and non-routine maintenance (not including gas, routine maintenance, insurance etc.).

For at least the last ten years I have not been able to find good late model Toyotas or Hondas at a low enough price to make them a better choice than buying a new one when they are on sale.

They are hard to price but I would be surprised if you didn't get a decent price when you sell your current car if it is running well since there are a lot of people who can work on cars themselves that are looking for cars like that.
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JupiterJones
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Re: New car now?

Post by JupiterJones »

tyrion wrote:I like mechanical projects and have fixed a few things on my 2001 Escape, but I think I draw the line at brakes. Those are an important safety feature that I don't want to mess with.
Well, brakes are important, but the types of things Irak is talking about (pads, rotors) really are relatively simple jobs. If you can change your oil, you can change your brake pads. (It's also an area where you save a lot by doing it yourself, as opposed to some other repairs where it's really not much more to take it somewhere.)

But yeah, most hobbyist mechanics do have their personal "repair Rubicon" beyond which they won't venture, based on their own skill and comfort level. I probably wouldn't go as far as to change the master cylinder myself, for example. And I'm not touching the A/C system with a ten-foot pole...
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tyrion
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Re: New car now?

Post by tyrion »

JupiterJones wrote:
tyrion wrote:I like mechanical projects and have fixed a few things on my 2001 Escape, but I think I draw the line at brakes. Those are an important safety feature that I don't want to mess with.
Well, brakes are important, but the types of things Irak is talking about (pads, rotors) really are relatively simple jobs. If you can change your oil, you can change your brake pads. (It's also an area where you save a lot by doing it yourself, as opposed to some other repairs where it's really not much more to take it somewhere.)

But yeah, most hobbyist mechanics do have their personal "repair Rubicon" beyond which they won't venture, based on their own skill and comfort level. I probably wouldn't go as far as to change the master cylinder myself, for example. And I'm not touching the A/C system with a ten-foot pole...
For what it's worth, I totally agree with you. Everyone has their own comfort level. Somehow when I integrate 'risk/reward 'and 'value of my time' then replacing brake components (even the simple ones) is outside of my comfort zone. Yet I will happily walk several blocks to save a few $ on parking, do my own mountain bike maintenance, and mow my own lawn.

Edit:
Sorry for getting off topic. OP, I think you are okay with either solution, there is no clear cut winner. You have certainly gotten your money's worth on the Toyota. If you felt like repairing it and driving it for another 6-12 months and taking your time on a car search then that makes sense too.

I would lean towards a new car if you frequently drive on high speed highways or freeways, if you drive in wet/icy/snowy conditions, and how much you drive with your toddler in your car. ESC makes a big difference in terms of safety, as others have noted.
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greg24
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Re: New car now?

Post by greg24 »

Watty wrote:
Blue wrote:
BuckyBadger wrote:Does the car have ESC? I wouldn't put my (hypothetical) toddler in a 1999 anything unless I didn't have any other choice.

Safety DOES advance, and those advances have value.

+1 -

I'd buy a new car for the safety enhancements alone.
+1000
+999999999999999999
sport
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Re: New car now?

Post by sport »

If you decide on buying a new Corolla, you may still be able to find 2013 models available. The 2014 is a new design, and it is harder to find a good deal on one. The 2013, on the other hand, is less desirable, in addition to being one model year older. You should be able to get a much better price on one if you can find one.
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Kenkat
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Re: New car now?

Post by Kenkat »

I think it's time. You have the money, the safety enhancements over the last 15 years are considerable, and it's not worth the hassle and the safety to risk being stranded somewhere if your car breaks down. They don't last forever; time to say farewell, old friend in my opinion and get something new.
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Re: New car now?

Post by denovo »

JupiterJones wrote:
tyrion wrote:I like mechanical projects and have fixed a few things on my 2001 Escape, but I think I draw the line at brakes. Those are an important safety feature that I don't want to mess with.
Well, brakes are important, but the types of things Irak is talking about (pads, rotors) really are relatively simple jobs. If you can change your oil, you can change your brake pads. (It's also an area where you save a lot by doing it yourself, as opposed to some other repairs where it's really not much more to take it somewhere.)

But yeah, most hobbyist mechanics do have their personal "repair Rubicon" beyond which they won't venture, based on their own skill and comfort level. I probably wouldn't go as far as to change the master cylinder myself, for example. And I'm not touching the A/C system with a ten-foot pole...
I agree that changing brake pads is relatively simple just like oil changes, for those into it, but you need to resurface rotors sometimes when brake pads are changed, and some folks don't want to pay for all that equipment. These repair items aren't particular expensive if you find a good local mechanic , i.e. not stealership aka dealership these items aren't that bad.

I usually bring my oil and filter to the mechanic and he charges me $10-15 for the labor.
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matjen
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Re: New car now?

Post by matjen »

Buy a new car. You have suffered long enough!
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dewey
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Re: New car now?

Post by dewey »

Blue wrote:
BuckyBadger wrote:Does the car have ESC? I wouldn't put my (hypothetical) toddler in a 1999 anything unless I didn't have any other choice.

Safety DOES advance, and those advances have value.

+1 -

I'd buy a new car for the safety enhancements alone.
+1

The safety improvements since 1999 have been significant. The youngster trumps all other considerations---and you come in a very close second. Get he new car and enjoy 2014.
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Re: New car now?

Post by dewey »

Blue wrote:
BuckyBadger wrote:Does the car have ESC? I wouldn't put my (hypothetical) toddler in a 1999 anything unless I didn't have any other choice.

Safety DOES advance, and those advances have value.

+1 -

I'd buy a new car for the safety enhancements alone.
+1

The safety improvements since 1999 have been significant. The youngster trumps all other considerations---and you come in a very close second. Get he new car and enjoy 2014.
“The only freedom that is of enduring importance is freedom of intelligence…” John Dewey
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Ged
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Re: New car now?

Post by Ged »

qwerty3020 wrote: I drive a 1999 Toyota Corolla with 145k miles.
New car. The safety improvements are quite significant.
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qwerty3020
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Re: New car now?

Post by qwerty3020 »

OP here. I trust the collective boglehead wisdom so it looks like we will be shopping tomorrow. Thank you everyone for the advice!
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Re: New car now?

Post by tibbitts »

JupiterJones wrote:
tyrion wrote:I like mechanical projects and have fixed a few things on my 2001 Escape, but I think I draw the line at brakes. Those are an important safety feature that I don't want to mess with.
Well, brakes are important, but the types of things Irak is talking about (pads, rotors) really are relatively simple jobs. If you can change your oil, you can change your brake pads. (It's also an area where you save a lot by doing it yourself, as opposed to some other repairs where it's really not much more to take it somewhere.)

But yeah, most hobbyist mechanics do have their personal "repair Rubicon" beyond which they won't venture, based on their own skill and comfort level. I probably wouldn't go as far as to change the master cylinder myself, for example. And I'm not touching the A/C system with a ten-foot pole...
I disagree with the over-simplification of even pad/shoe replacement. It's definitely a substantial degree of difficulty beyond a typical oil change. I can't speak specifically to the model in question, but in general, you need a good assortment of tools, including some specialty brake tools that may be model-specific, to work on brakes - equipment that people who do that kind of work for a hobby just take for granted, but that not everybody owns. And no matter how much you've read on websites, there's a certain knack to breaking rusty caliper adapter bolts loose, or pushing one of those little self-adjuster fingers away from a star wheel through a tiny slot in a backing plate, that's just not that easy to come by, even after you've done it a few times.
Dude2
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Re: New car now?

Post by Dude2 »

Ever feel like just a cog in the wheel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence
In the United States, automotive design reached a turning point in 1924 when the American national automobile market began reaching saturation. To maintain unit sales, General Motors head Alfred P. Sloan Jr. suggested annual model-year design changes to convince car owners that they needed to buy a new replacement each year, an idea borrowed from the bicycle industry (though Sloan usually gets the credit, or blame).[2] Critics called his strategy "planned obsolescence". Sloan preferred the term "dynamic obsolescence". This strategy had far-reaching effects on the auto business, the field of product design, and eventually the American economy. The smaller players could not maintain the pace and expense of yearly re-styling. Henry Ford did not like the model-year change because he clung to an engineer's notions of simplicity, economies of scale, and design integrity. GM surpassed Ford's sales in 1931 and became the dominant company in the industry thereafter. The frequent design changes also made it necessary to use a body-on-frame rather than the lighter, but less flexible,[clarification needed] monocoque design used by most European automakers.
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Re: New car now?

Post by livesoft »

I probably need a new car, too. My 2001 has side-impact airbags, front airbags, anti-lock brakes, electronic stability control, a horn, lights, mirrors, seat belts, and probably other safety features. What are the advances in safety features since 2001? Cameras? Are they significant?

It got new brakes and tires last year, too.
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Re: New car now?

Post by The Wizard »

livesoft wrote:I probably need a new car, too. My 2001 has side-impact airbags, front airbags, anti-lock brakes, electronic stability control, a horn, lights, mirrors, seat belts, and probably other safety features. What are the advances in safety features since 2001? Cameras? Are they significant?

It got new brakes and tires last year, too.
Sounds like your '01 has a full deck in the safety dept.
A backup camera for a passenger car is overkill if you know how to drive properly and also check briefly behind the car before getting in the driver's seat.
I think power mirrors might be an important feature if two or more people of varying sizes use the same car from time to time...
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123
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Re: New car now?

Post by 123 »

Now is the perfect time to buy a new car, for the toddler. You can plan to drive the new car for the next 15 years or so and then it will be ready for use by your then grown-up toddler. You aren't really buying it for yourself but for your child. Go ahead. Your child deserves it.
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dgdevil
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Re: New car now?

Post by dgdevil »

I thought new cars would be verboten in Bogleville - instant depreciation and all that stuff.
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Re: New car now?

Post by yogesh »

Pick up a new 2013 model from the lot for 20-25% off MSRP.
Always shop for car towards end of the month and last year models are steal when new models become available.
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Re: New car now?

Post by BuckyBadger »

dgdevil wrote:I thought new cars would be verboten in Bogleville - instant depreciation and all that stuff.
"New" often doesn't mean "brand new," rather simply "new to me."

I think the OP understands that.
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Re: New car now?

Post by tc101 »

What about buying a 2-3 year old car? Doesn't that save you a lot of money?
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Re: New car now?

Post by sport »

tc101 wrote:What about buying a 2-3 year old car? Doesn't that save you a lot of money?
In another thread, I wrote:
When comparing the costs of new vs. used cars, you should consider the make and desirability of that brand. For Toyotas and Hondas, there is so much demand for used ones, that the high prices leave little savings compared to new ones. For less desirable makes such as (fill in the blank), you can realize substantial savings by buying a used model. However, the prices are lower for good reasons. The vehicle you get that way will be less desirable. It may turn out to be a good purchase, but then again it may not.
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Re: New car now?

Post by Valuethinker »

qwerty3020 wrote:Tomorrow I need to either buy a new car or perform critical maintenance on my current car. Tell me what to do bogleheads!

I drive a 1999 Toyota Corolla with 145k miles. I'm the original owner (It was a graduation gift- thanks Dad!). In short, the car runs great but looks terrible. (Details: Its never broken down. The paint is very badly faded and peeling on most of the body. The bumper has a big dent from a hit-and-run 7 years ago. The doorhandles have broken and needed to be replaced several times. Sometimes the windows get stuck open. The upholstery is crumbling on the ceiling. ) Also the breaks are squeaking which means $400-$700 on upkeep if I don't buy a new car. I'm not sure the car is even worth that much.

Part of me thinks I should buy a new car now. I like the 2014 Corolla. I'm mom to a toddler and I want her to be safe. And, I hate to admit it, but my pride chafes a bit at driving such an ugly car. I have the money. But part of me thinks that because the car runs well I should just wait until it breaks down, which could be next week or the next decade. I've been thinking about this for several months, but I just can't decide. Help!
You have a toddler. New cars have much greater safety equipment (I am not sure what is done about children and air bags-- air bags can be a threat to a child's life). Anti lock brakes. Electronic Stability Control. Blind spot warnings.

That takes priority over the economics. As per other posters, see if you can find a 2013 model at a significant discount.
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Re: New car now?

Post by SimonJester »

Valuethinker wrote: New cars have much greater safety equipment...
I see this repeated over and over again here, but I really cannot think of what new great extremely important safety features have come about in the last few decades. I'm not saying there haven't been any safety improvements but do these really mean we all need to dump our older cars and run out to purchase a new one? I'm thinking the advertising campaigns have succeeded here...


145K on the 1999 corolla is good millage, if you are not burning oil ( the 98 and 99s had issues with this) you could take it to 200k easily.

The brake job is not too hard if you know what to do and doesn't require any special tools. The rear drums are a little harder to complete then the front pads. $400 sounds way too high for a simple brake job even if the rotors need turning.

You didn't mention if you have the budget to support a new car, I would start saving up a monthly car payment in a savings account and drive the corolla until it has a major brake down.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
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Re: New car now?

Post by tibbitts »

SimonJester wrote:
Valuethinker wrote: New cars have much greater safety equipment...
I see this repeated over and over again here, but I really cannot think of what new great extremely important safety features have come about in the last few decades. I'm not saying there haven't been any safety improvements but do these really mean we all need to dump our older cars and run out to purchase a new one?
No, it just means that new cars are better than old cars were even when the old cars were new. And new cars are much, much better than cars that have had only typical recommended maintenance.
SimonJester wrote: The brake job is not too hard if you know what to do and doesn't require any special tools.
Lots of tasks aren't hard if you know what you're doing - or get lucky. Most things that most of us do at work every day aren't "hard", but that's partly because we've forgotten the process we went through to learn how to do them. If the brake job doesn't require "special tools", that just means that it only requires tools you already happen to have, which is only likely if your garage looks like it belongs on the cover of a Snap-On catalog.
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Re: New car now?

Post by Ged »

dgdevil wrote:I thought new cars would be verboten in Bogleville - instant depreciation and all that stuff.
Depends on the car. Some makes like Toyota and Honda have little early depreciation so buying a 2 year old model doesn't result in much savings. Not to mention they are hard to find. Bogleville wisdom is more about buying the car and keeping it for a long time.
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Ged
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Re: New car now?

Post by Ged »

SimonJester wrote: I see this repeated over and over again here, but I really cannot think of what new great extremely important safety features have come about in the last few decades. I'm not saying there haven't been any safety improvements but do these really mean we all need to dump our older cars and run out to purchase a new one? I'm thinking the advertising campaigns have succeeded here...
The vehicle fatality rate in 1999 was 1.55 per 100 million miles. Now it's 1.14.

In 1960 it was 5.06.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... S._by_year
camaro327
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Re: New car now?

Post by camaro327 »

I would look at buying a new 2014 civic lx (either 2 or 4 doors, depending on your needs). It is the first year for the new CVT (a plus), and it underwent some other nice updates.

Other cars possible: 4 cylinder Accords or Camarys, Maybe the Chevy Sonic that has high safety ratings and great mpg, if you can get some nice incentives.

At 14yrs I would give the Corolla a Viking Funeral. :sharebeer
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Re: New car now?

Post by Valuethinker »

SimonJester wrote:
Valuethinker wrote: New cars have much greater safety equipment...
I see this repeated over and over again here, but I really cannot think of what new great extremely important safety features have come about in the last few decades. I'm not saying there haven't been any safety improvements but do these really mean we all need to dump our older cars and run out to purchase a new one? I'm thinking the advertising campaigns have succeeded here...


145K on the 1999 corolla is good millage, if you are not burning oil ( the 98 and 99s had issues with this) you could take it to 200k easily.

The brake job is not too hard if you know what to do and doesn't require any special tools. The rear drums are a little harder to complete then the front pads. $400 sounds way too high for a simple brake job even if the rotors need turning.

You didn't mention if you have the budget to support a new car, I would start saving up a monthly car payment in a savings account and drive the corolla until it has a major brake down.
Simon. Not sure when side airbags came in. Post 1999?

Antilock brakes weren't standard were they until relatively late in the game?

Electronic Stability Control is pretty new, and by all accounts is significant.

If one's car is 10 years old, then it's not a call to dump. But a 14 year old car, with a toddler? It's time.
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Re: New car now?

Post by Valuethinker »

Ged wrote:
dgdevil wrote:I thought new cars would be verboten in Bogleville - instant depreciation and all that stuff.
Depends on the car. Some makes like Toyota and Honda have little early depreciation so buying a 2 year old model doesn't result in much savings. Not to mention they are hard to find. Bogleville wisdom is more about buying the car and keeping it for a long time.
Because car sales are still rising from a very bad slump, there are relatively fewer old models around in any given year. So there's actually a short supply of popular used car brands. Also when the credit crunch was bad, people just couldn't get the leasing to buy new cars, so they traded down to used ones (or held on to their existing cars).
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Re: New car now?

Post by bottlecap »

To slow the new car fever a bit, brakes shouldn't be a $700 job. You can still do the brakes, shop around for a month or two and then buy. You might even be able to get some money back by selling the old car, despite it's looks.

JT
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greg24
Posts: 4512
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:34 am

Re: New car now?

Post by greg24 »

SimonJester wrote:I see this repeated over and over again here, but I really cannot think of what new great extremely important safety features have come about in the last few decades.
Stability control.
keystone
Posts: 735
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:34 pm

Re: New car now?

Post by keystone »

camaro327 wrote:I would look at buying a new 2014 civic lx (either 2 or 4 doors, depending on your needs). It is the first year for the new CVT (a plus), and it underwent some other nice updates.


At 14yrs I would give the Corolla a Viking Funeral. :sharebeer
I am also leaning towards buying a 2014 Civic (EX-L) to replace my 1999 CIvic. Do you think buyers should be concerned that this is the first year with a new transmission? Has anyone read reports about Honda having widespread 1st year CVT issues with other models (e.g. 2013 Accord)? I do know that some Civics including the hybrid have utilized CVT for many years without any major problems, so perhaps this is not something to worry about.
lrak
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:46 am

Re: New car now?

Post by lrak »

tibbitts wrote:I disagree with the over-simplification of even pad/shoe replacement. It's definitely a substantial degree of difficulty beyond a typical oil change. I can't speak specifically to the model in question, but in general, you need a good assortment of tools, including some specialty brake tools that may be model-specific, to work on brakes - equipment that people who do that kind of work for a hobby just take for granted, but that not everybody owns.
I guess complexity is relative. Fronts on most Toyota sedans requires a 14mm wrench, a 17mm wrench, and a hammer. Rears require a 14mm wrench and a small flat screwdriver. I've never resurfaced the rotors on my Corolla or my wife's Vibe (Matrix). These are extremely common cars. If the rotors are grooved you drive to local autoparts store and get new ones for $30 each.
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