Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Dear Bogleheads,
Happy holidays to all. After 2 very frustrating days of trying to use my brand new computer with Windows 8.1, I returned the computer. I am not terribly stupid and have been using a computer since Wangs were bouge but Windows 8.1 has totally destroyed my self esteem.
I am now looking for a new laptop with Windows 7. It must have an optical drive and be able to both read and write CDs and DVDs. It must be under 5 lbs in weight. All help will be rewarded with my personal grievance on next year's Festivus Day.
Many thanks. Peace, JTJjr, the forlorn
Happy holidays to all. After 2 very frustrating days of trying to use my brand new computer with Windows 8.1, I returned the computer. I am not terribly stupid and have been using a computer since Wangs were bouge but Windows 8.1 has totally destroyed my self esteem.
I am now looking for a new laptop with Windows 7. It must have an optical drive and be able to both read and write CDs and DVDs. It must be under 5 lbs in weight. All help will be rewarded with my personal grievance on next year's Festivus Day.
Many thanks. Peace, JTJjr, the forlorn
Aimlessly wandering to discover where I am.
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
You may find some answers in my thread about life after Windows XP.
As for your frustration with Windows 8.1, it's understandable. There is only so much you can discover by tinkering, and the tree of options is humongous. I had a similar frustration when I first got my Nexus phone. I wanted to try different things and could not find them by trial and error. I also did not know how to get out of various places I was inadvertently getting into. And so I bought a "For Dummies" book about Android. All of a sudden my previous issues became non-issues.
Bonne chance,
Victoria
As for your frustration with Windows 8.1, it's understandable. There is only so much you can discover by tinkering, and the tree of options is humongous. I had a similar frustration when I first got my Nexus phone. I wanted to try different things and could not find them by trial and error. I also did not know how to get out of various places I was inadvertently getting into. And so I bought a "For Dummies" book about Android. All of a sudden my previous issues became non-issues.
Bonne chance,
Victoria
Inventor of the Bogleheads Secret Handshake |
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Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Basically, you can't get 7 anymore. I too hated 8.0 which I changed to 8.1. Just use desktop mode and pin things to desktop and you'll learn. Do a bunch of searches and you can find what you need.
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Someone has recommended me to look for "business" laptops rather than home ones. I just checked Dell Business laptops, where most choices are Windows 7.Calm Man wrote:Basically, you can't get 7 anymore. I too hated 8.0 which I changed to 8.1. Just use desktop mode and pin things to desktop and you'll learn. Do a bunch of searches and you can find what you need.
Victoria
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Winner of the 2015 Boglehead Contest. |
Every joke has a bit of a joke. ... The rest is the truth. (Marat F)
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Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Not true. Win 7 is still widely available if you just look around. Take your pick:Calm Man wrote:Basically, you can't get 7 anymore. I too hated 8.0 which I changed to 8.1. Just use desktop mode and pin things to desktop and you'll learn. Do a bunch of searches and you can find what you need.
http://www.amazon.com/s?rh=n%3A565108%2 ... 2287320011
Best Regards - Mel |
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Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Windows 7 is getting harder to find in the consumer PC lineup. For example, on Amazon, only one of the top 20 currently bestselling laptops comes with Windows 7.
It's still pretty easy to find Windows 7 on the business PC lineup. You'd be restricting your hardware choices quite a bit, though.
That having been said, most people who are confused by Windows 8 find that installing a Start menu gets them over the initial hump. For example: http://www.classicshell.net/
It's the sheer shock of seeing the new interface that triggers the "fight-or-flight" response. (In your case, you chose "flight" and returned the computer.) But once they get the familiar Start menu back, they discover that 90% of what they're familiar with in Windows 7 is still there in Windows 8. They can then become productive right away, and tackle the remaining 10% gradually, at their own pace.
It's still pretty easy to find Windows 7 on the business PC lineup. You'd be restricting your hardware choices quite a bit, though.
That having been said, most people who are confused by Windows 8 find that installing a Start menu gets them over the initial hump. For example: http://www.classicshell.net/
It's the sheer shock of seeing the new interface that triggers the "fight-or-flight" response. (In your case, you chose "flight" and returned the computer.) But once they get the familiar Start menu back, they discover that 90% of what they're familiar with in Windows 7 is still there in Windows 8. They can then become productive right away, and tackle the remaining 10% gradually, at their own pace.
- Mel Lindauer
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Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Not sure why you say it's getting harder when the Amazon link I provided appears to list nearly 4500 Win 7 laptops (187 pages of 24).talzara wrote:Windows 7 is getting harder to find in the consumer PC lineup. For example, on Amazon, only one of the top 20 currently bestselling laptops comes with Windows 7.
It's still pretty easy to find Windows 7 on the business PC lineup. You'd be restricting your hardware choices quite a bit, though.
That having been said, most people who are confused by Windows 8 find that installing a Start menu gets them over the initial hump. For example: http://www.classicshell.net/
It's the sheer shock of seeing the new interface that triggers the "fight-or-flight" response. (In your case, you chose "flight" and returned the computer.) But once they get the familiar Start menu back, they discover that 90% of what they're familiar with in Windows 7 is still there in Windows 8. They can then become productive right away, and tackle the remaining 10% gradually, at their own pace.
Best Regards - Mel |
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Semper Fi
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
It's possible to use Win8 almost exactly like previous versions with a little setup:
1) install Classic Shell: http://www.classicshell.net
2) change program defaults so that full screen tablet mode doesn't get accidentally invoked when you click on files
1) install Classic Shell: http://www.classicshell.net
2) change program defaults so that full screen tablet mode doesn't get accidentally invoked when you click on files
I am pleased to report that the invisible forces of destruction have been unmasked, marking a turning point chapter when the fraudulent and speculative winds are cast into the inferno of extinction.
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
as a mac guy, i love win 8.1, i find it very easy to use, and much easier than XP or 7. BUt i come form a mac background.
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Because it is. I said harder, not impossible.Mel Lindauer wrote:Not sure why you say it's getting harder when the Amazon link I provided appears to list nearly 4500 Win 7 laptops (187 pages of 24).
You're looking at Amazon, which conmingles the consumer and business lineup, and also includes previous years' models in the count of 4500 laptops.
If you go to the manufacturer's own web site, then you see a very different story. Windows 7 is getting phased out across the consumer lineup in favor of Windows 8. But it's still very easy to find in the business lineup. For example, take a look at HP:
- HP Home & Home Office lists 34 Windows laptops. Of these, 34 have Windows 8 loaded, and 0 have Windows 7 loaded.
- HP Small and Medium Business lists 20 models of "HP Notebook PC." Of these, 10 have Windows 8 loaded, and 10 have Windows 7 loaded.
- HP Small and Medium Business lists 32 models of "HP Probook Notebook PC." Of these, 1 has Windows 8 loaded, and 31 have Windows 7 loaded.
Last edited by talzara on Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
The Lenovo ThinkPad T440p should satisfy your requirements. You can get it with Windows 7 as is this case with most ThinkPads (I believe).
I must admit that I had been putting off adopting Windows 8/8.1 for as long as possible until I purchased a Windows 8.1 tablet (Dell Venue 8 Pro). I have owned an iPad and a Nexus 7 and the Windows 8.1 tablet has been the best tablet I have owned to date. I have come to enjoy Windows 8.1 so much that I have upgraded my non-touch "main" laptop from Windows 7 to Windows 8.1 - mainly so I can sync data between devices. So far it has been a great decision.
I must admit that I had been putting off adopting Windows 8/8.1 for as long as possible until I purchased a Windows 8.1 tablet (Dell Venue 8 Pro). I have owned an iPad and a Nexus 7 and the Windows 8.1 tablet has been the best tablet I have owned to date. I have come to enjoy Windows 8.1 so much that I have upgraded my non-touch "main" laptop from Windows 7 to Windows 8.1 - mainly so I can sync data between devices. So far it has been a great decision.
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Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
As noted above, you can set up Windows 8 to behave (for the most part) like Windows 7.
You might want to investigate Microsoft's dates for ending Windows 7 support, as they are doing next year for Windows XP.
You might want to investigate Microsoft's dates for ending Windows 7 support, as they are doing next year for Windows XP.
Kerry Livgren of [i]Kansas[/i] wrote:Don't hang on, nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky.
It slips away, and all your money won't another minute buy.
Last edited by whaleknives on Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Jan. 2020 is a long way off.whaleknives wrote:As noted above, you can set up Windows 8 to behave (for the most part) like Windows 7.
You might want to investigate Microsoft's dates for ending Windows 7 support, as they are doing next year for Windows XP.
Don't hang on, nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky.
It slips away, and all your money won't another minute buy.
Best Regards - Mel |
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Semper Fi
- Mel Lindauer
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Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
I just go where the computer I want is available; I really don't care what category it's listed under.talzara wrote:Because it is. I said harder, not impossible.Mel Lindauer wrote:Not sure why you say it's getting harder when the Amazon link I provided appears to list nearly 4500 Win 7 laptops (187 pages of 24).
You're looking at Amazon, which conmingles the consumer and business lineup, and also includes previous years' models in the count of 4500 laptops.
If you go to the manufacturer's own web site, then you see a very different story. Windows 7 is getting phased out across the consumer lineup in favor of Windows 8. But it's still very easy to find in the business lineup. For example, take a look at HP:
- HP Home & Home Office lists 34 Windows laptops. Of these, 34 have Windows 8 loaded, and 0 have Windows 7 loaded.
- HP Small and Medium Business lists 20 models of "HP Notebook PC." Of these, 10 have Windows 8 loaded, and 10 have Windows 7 loaded.
- HP Small and Medium Business lists 32 models of "HP Probook Notebook PC." Of these, 1 has Windows 8 loaded, and 31 have Windows 7 loaded.
Best Regards - Mel |
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Semper Fi
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Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
That's for extended support. And it's just 6 years; I'm still using an iMac that's going on 7.Mel Lindauer wrote:Jan. 2020 is a long way off.
"I'm an indexer. I own the market. And I'm happy." (John Bogle, "BusinessWeek", 8/17/07) ☕ Maritime signal flag W - Whiskey: "I require medical assistance."
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Yes, you should have opened up this thread before hastily returning. I use classic shell also on a windows 8 laptop.dumbmoney wrote:It's possible to use Win8 almost exactly like previous versions with a little setup:
1) install Classic Shell: http://www.classicshell.net
2) change program defaults so that full screen tablet mode doesn't get accidentally invoked when you click on files
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Windows 8.1 is actually pretty easy to use. Learn the shortcuts: (windows + q) to search the whole machine, (windows+I) to access quick menu to turn off or get at control panel. There are a few settings that have been moved to the metro interface. Find those settings, see what's there. Control panel still exists. Some shortcuts have been moved around at the top of folders. It's definitely not intuitive, but you can get the hang of it. Just don't give up. Buy another windows 8 machine and challenge yourself. It will be worth the investment.
~Brantley
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
I've configured this very ASUS running 8.1 to look virtually the same as 7. It boots right to the desktop, and all my icons are there like before. Control panel as before. "Programs list" is actually easier to use when it becomes "Apps list". No need to go out and add an external "shell".
Figuring out how to turn it off, though, was an exercise in frustration!
Figuring out how to turn it off, though, was an exercise in frustration!
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Just to explain what the "personal" and "business" bit is...
Virtually no (sane) businesses runs Windows 8. Overall it has less then 10% marketshare, and the software they use for faxing and accounting just will not be certified to work with that small a share. Also, the costs of training(!) users (especially those who have expressed similar feelings as OP), and supporting issues is not worth any marginal benefit. Therefore MS has to keep selling Windows 7, but they need to tell Wall Street they're selling Windows 8.
Microsoft brilliantly uses this to their advantage, by offering "downgrade rights" on systems that come with OEM Windows 8 Pro...
That way, they sell a new OS that's $50 more expensive and Wall Street cheers as the manufacture installs Windows 7 with a Windows 8 license.
Yes, they no longer sell Win 7 licenses, but you can substitute a Win 8 Pro OEM license, and legally use Win 7. (It cannot be Pro retail or upgrade)
I strongly recommend the computer have Win 7 preinstalled, as installing it manually with a legal license is a couple hours work.
I apologize if this is off-topic, but purchasing a new laptop is a really good time to consider buying an SSD drive, and install Win7 from scratch.
They will make your system much faster.
They will use less power with no moving parts, extending the battery.
They're much more resistant to drops, as there's no magnetic needle carefully scraping the hard disk platter.
Virtually no (sane) businesses runs Windows 8. Overall it has less then 10% marketshare, and the software they use for faxing and accounting just will not be certified to work with that small a share. Also, the costs of training(!) users (especially those who have expressed similar feelings as OP), and supporting issues is not worth any marginal benefit. Therefore MS has to keep selling Windows 7, but they need to tell Wall Street they're selling Windows 8.
Microsoft brilliantly uses this to their advantage, by offering "downgrade rights" on systems that come with OEM Windows 8 Pro...
That way, they sell a new OS that's $50 more expensive and Wall Street cheers as the manufacture installs Windows 7 with a Windows 8 license.
Yes, they no longer sell Win 7 licenses, but you can substitute a Win 8 Pro OEM license, and legally use Win 7. (It cannot be Pro retail or upgrade)
I strongly recommend the computer have Win 7 preinstalled, as installing it manually with a legal license is a couple hours work.
I apologize if this is off-topic, but purchasing a new laptop is a really good time to consider buying an SSD drive, and install Win7 from scratch.
They will make your system much faster.
They will use less power with no moving parts, extending the battery.
They're much more resistant to drops, as there's no magnetic needle carefully scraping the hard disk platter.
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Life can be so easy if you just let it....... I bought a new Win 8 computer a few months back. As soon as I could get on the net I went to http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/ and bought ($4.99) their program which boots Win 8 direct to the desktop, returns the start button and Win 7 style pop-up menu in the lower left corner, complete with shut off button. Cold start to desktop in 26 seconds which includes entering through a password protected screen.
Make life easy on yourself.
Make life easy on yourself.
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
delete
Last edited by Draak on Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Stardock makes good products - I have used them since their OS/2 days. But even they can't fix the bipolar user interface in Windows 8/8.1 , in particular the half of the control panel that's in Metro, and the rest that's still in the older Windows XP/Vista/7 UI. It's nothing short of maddening. If they wanted to have 2 ways of doing every single thing, fine. But half of everything in each is just silly.midareff wrote:Life can be so easy if you just let it....... I bought a new Win 8 computer a few months back. As soon as I could get on the net I went to http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/ and bought ($4.99) their program which boots Win 8 direct to the desktop, returns the start button and Win 7 style pop-up menu in the lower left corner, complete with shut off button. Cold start to desktop in 26 seconds which includes entering through a password protected screen.
Make life easy on yourself.
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
I wasn't going to respond to this thread...but you really tried to learn a new OS in two days??? Windows 8.1 and Mac OS Mavericks each took me a few months before I really got comfortable with them. I read books, watched videos, and went through online reviews.
If you don't want to change...that's fine. However, just be aware long term you are compromising security and will eventually get further behind in technology. My wife and father/mother in law use Windows 8.1 just fine even though they are not very techie.
I like the flexibility of Windows 8 (can work like W8 or W7), and once you get to see the bigger picture it all makes sense. My tablet, laptop, desktop, and Xbox One all have a very similar interface. I can't imagine using Windows 7 on a tablet...
If you don't want to change...that's fine. However, just be aware long term you are compromising security and will eventually get further behind in technology. My wife and father/mother in law use Windows 8.1 just fine even though they are not very techie.
I like the flexibility of Windows 8 (can work like W8 or W7), and once you get to see the bigger picture it all makes sense. My tablet, laptop, desktop, and Xbox One all have a very similar interface. I can't imagine using Windows 7 on a tablet...
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Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Get over it. Use the internet to help solve your sticking points. You will be glad you did.
http://www.hanselman.com/blog/Windows8P ... eItIs.aspx
You can always go to ebay and by an MS-Dos machine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-DOS
If you didn't try new things, you would still be with a full service broker that charges 5% to "help" you and talks nice to you on the phone.
http://www.hanselman.com/blog/Windows8P ... eItIs.aspx
You can always go to ebay and by an MS-Dos machine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-DOS
If you didn't try new things, you would still be with a full service broker that charges 5% to "help" you and talks nice to you on the phone.
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Yes Lenovo has laptops with Win7
http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/#/ ... &facet-4=2
also win 7 life cycle, 2020, is only 3 yrs shorter than win 8 which is 2023
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle
http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/#/ ... &facet-4=2
also win 7 life cycle, 2020, is only 3 yrs shorter than win 8 which is 2023
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle
Desiderata
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Many thanks for many replies. All have been helpful and motivating. Special thanks to gsmith for the interesting info about the "personal" and "business" aspects of Windows 8. Special thanks to VictoriaF for the link to Dell Business computers...I had ignored the "business" ones and many have the Win 7 with optical drives, just what I am looking for. And a grand thanks to Mel for his several comments to my post and the thousands of comments I have read from him over the years. I am very grateful for his generous help.
I am going to go through all the links, make a decision, then post what I buy. Since Windows 8 may be on its way out sooner than many think, perhaps others will be interested in what I find regarding an under 5 lbs laptop with Win 7 and an optical drive that reads/writes DVDs/CDs.
Peace. JTJjr, much less forlorn
I am going to go through all the links, make a decision, then post what I buy. Since Windows 8 may be on its way out sooner than many think, perhaps others will be interested in what I find regarding an under 5 lbs laptop with Win 7 and an optical drive that reads/writes DVDs/CDs.
Peace. JTJjr, much less forlorn
Aimlessly wandering to discover where I am.
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Then again, there is always Linux.
We live a world with knowledge of the future markets has less than one significant figure. And people will still and always demand answers to three significant digits.
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
I concur the "classic shell" makes it work like win 7 with win 8.1 improvements!dumbmoney wrote:It's possible to use Win8 almost exactly like previous versions with a little setup:
1) install Classic Shell: http://www.classicshell.net
2) change program defaults so that full screen tablet mode doesn't get accidentally invoked when you click on files
Contrary to the belief of many, profit is not a four letter word!
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Amazon sells licenses for all kinds of Windows 7
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_ ... Caps%2C259
Paul
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_ ... Caps%2C259
Paul
...and then Buffy staked Edward. The end.
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Yes, but you have to make sure the hardware is supported by Windows 7.stratton wrote:Amazon sells licenses for all kinds of Windows 7
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_ ... Caps%2C259
Paul
Newer hardware that comes bundled with Windows 8 might not have drivers for Windows 7 even if you have a license and want to downgrade.
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
We received our Dell XPS-15 with Windows 8.1 a couple of weeks ago, and it is really easy to use, and I like it better than Windows 7.
Hey, change is something we naturally fight, but "Change is the future", so I've learned to embrace it.
Try another PC with Win 8.1, Don't give up!
Hey, change is something we naturally fight, but "Change is the future", so I've learned to embrace it.
Try another PC with Win 8.1, Don't give up!
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Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Maybe I should have been more specific about the support life cycles. It's not that the dates for Windows 7 and 8.1 are only 3 years apart - it's that there will be support for Windows 8.1+, but not for Windows XP or 7.soaring wrote:also win 7 life cycle, 2020, is only 3 yrs shorter than win 8 which is 2023
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle
"I'm an indexer. I own the market. And I'm happy." (John Bogle, "BusinessWeek", 8/17/07) ☕ Maritime signal flag W - Whiskey: "I require medical assistance."
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Considering the huge amount of Windows 7 out there new hardware is probably supported for the short term. A year from now maybe not. If it's a laptop then you can check the manuf web site. That is where someone would need to go for drivers anyway.madbrain wrote:Yes, but you have to make sure the hardware is supported by Windows 7.
Newer hardware that comes bundled with Windows 8 might not have drivers for Windows 7 even if you have a license and want to downgrade.
Paul
...and then Buffy staked Edward. The end.
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Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
I hate it too. I installed the add-on work-arounds and they work pretty well.
This guy says we should all invest the time to figure Windows 8 out and has prepared a video tutorial to make it easier called "who moved my Windows 8 cheese"
This guy says we should all invest the time to figure Windows 8 out and has prepared a video tutorial to make it easier called "who moved my Windows 8 cheese"
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
So what can you do with Windows 8, that you can't do with Windows 7, or for that matter Windows XP ?
We have a "business rule" at my company that requires a significant increase in capability to justify the cost and risk of a software upgrade.
... it's amazing how few upgrades can be justified.
We have a "business rule" at my company that requires a significant increase in capability to justify the cost and risk of a software upgrade.
... it's amazing how few upgrades can be justified.
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
I don't want to veer too far into the rules against speculation.
It's a fact that the Windows 8 the experience is much better if you are on a touchscreen, and the market share is minimal.
They have announced they are dropping support for Windows RT, which was Windows 8 for ARM, and they will have a new direction in the next year.
I can tell you, Microsoft has been trying to push "Metro" apps, that work both on Windows 8 Phones, Tablets, and PCs.
Google is successfully pushing web apps/Chrome apps, that will work on any device that can visit a web page, making it irrelevant whether you're using Mac, PC, or Linux.
Then there are millions of legacy applications that have been developed over the last decade.
There have been OS cycles where Microsoft completely misses the consumer demand and goes it's own way.
Windows Millennium Edition (ME), is one of those examples in between Windows 98 and Windows XP, trying to incorporate the reliability of NT.
The best move you could have made then is skip ME and waited for XP. I think Win8 will be one of those cycles.
It's a fact that the Windows 8 the experience is much better if you are on a touchscreen, and the market share is minimal.
They have announced they are dropping support for Windows RT, which was Windows 8 for ARM, and they will have a new direction in the next year.
I can tell you, Microsoft has been trying to push "Metro" apps, that work both on Windows 8 Phones, Tablets, and PCs.
Google is successfully pushing web apps/Chrome apps, that will work on any device that can visit a web page, making it irrelevant whether you're using Mac, PC, or Linux.
Then there are millions of legacy applications that have been developed over the last decade.
There have been OS cycles where Microsoft completely misses the consumer demand and goes it's own way.
Windows Millennium Edition (ME), is one of those examples in between Windows 98 and Windows XP, trying to incorporate the reliability of NT.
The best move you could have made then is skip ME and waited for XP. I think Win8 will be one of those cycles.
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Windows XP vs 7, you will get pushback on.dodonnell wrote:So what can you do with Windows 8, that you can't do with Windows 7, or for that matter Windows XP ?
We have a "business rule" at my company that requires a significant increase in capability to justify the cost and risk of a software upgrade.
... it's amazing how few upgrades can be justified.
Had you said Windows Vista vs Win 7, I would agree with you.
Win XP is over a decade old, and not only insecure, but can't handle SSDs, 64-bit, more the 4 GB of memory, etc, etc.
Windows Vista was annoying, and Windows 7 is essentially a more polished version of Vista.
Windows 8 is trying to be everything to everyone, with consumer and enterprise features, Windows Store, Hyper-V, better built-in management tools.
Microsoft has given many carrots, from free Clustering to more powerful management tools, and it's inevitable once the new OS reaches saturation that third parties will stop developing for Win7, like they have for XP, you'll need to upgrade in order to use new features.
I just don't think that is inevitable when you have less then 10% market share.
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
It's odd that your claiming Microsoft is "just" supporting Windows 7 with 6 more years of security updates considering the fact that your 7 year old iMac originally came with Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger which was only supported with security updates from 2005 thru 2009 (a.k.a. 4 years vs. Microsoft's standard 10 years).whaleknives wrote:That's for extended support. And it's just 6 years; I'm still using an iMac that's going on 7.Mel Lindauer wrote:Jan. 2020 is a long way off.
Now, you've personally probably upgraded to Mac OS X 10.6 (or maybe 10.7?) which for the time being is still supported by Apple... but that would be analogous to a present-day Windows 7 user upgrading in the future to Windows 8.x to obtain longer support from Microsoft.
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Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
I have learned new operating systems since the IBM 7094. TiniBasic CP/M etc etc etc.yatesd wrote:I wasn't going to respond to this thread...but you really tried to learn a new OS in two days??? Windows 8.1 and Mac OS Mavericks each took me a few months before I really got comfortable with them. I read books, watched videos, and went through online reviews.If you don't want to change...that's fine. However, just be aware long term you are compromising security and will eventually get further behind in technology. My wife and father/mother in law use Windows 8.1 just fine even though they are not very techie.
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Windows xp , vist everything
Windows 8 is a complete POS. Try to handle picture files on an attached flash drive. Piece of cake in 7 POS in 8
I had my windows 8 laptop stolen and it felt so goooood..
- frugaltype
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Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Why should good security require learning a new interface? Do i care if I'm behind in technology, now that I'm no longer working in the field? No. I actually have a life.yatesd wrote:I wasn't going to respond to this thread...but you really tried to learn a new OS in two days??? Windows 8.1 and Mac OS Mavericks each took me a few months before I really got comfortable with them. I read books, watched videos, and went through online reviews.
If you don't want to change...that's fine. However, just be aware long term you are compromising security and will eventually get further behind in technology.
I have better things to do with a few months of my life than learn another Microsoft interface.
OP, there's always ebay for laptops with older OSes.
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Actually, I am not sure I completely agree with that. I have a touchscreen on a 15.6 inch laptop with Windows 8.1 and almost never use the touchscreen. With the desktop apps, the mouse or track pad works much better. And the "Metro" apps do not feel very useful on a large screen laptop. Even for the very few Metro Apps that I use, not having to reach for the screen by using a mouse feels more natural.It's a fact that the Windows 8 the experience is much better if you are on a touchscreen, and the market share is minimal
I get used to Windows 8 and it is not that bad. I still think the start screen with the tiles is a regression when trying to lunch an application. The main issue is having to search several screens for a not commonly used application. And the main feature of the tiles, the live update, is mostly not reliable. Several time I see that the content of the tile is not consistent with what you see when you open the apps. Even if you open the apps and come back to the start screen, the tile is not always updated.
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Similarly, I replaced my desktop last week with a new dell which has windows 8. As with our other windows 8 computer, I immediately downloaded ClassicShell and configured so I never see the metro screen. However after reading about windows 8.1 upgrade comments I am going to stick with 8 until I hear better results. Unfortunately my scanner does not have drivers for windows 8 and still have some other online interface problems. Personally I would not make any effort to buy a windows 7 machine when 8 can be so easily corrected.
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Vista/7/8 vs XP...64-bit (actually there is a little known 64-bit version of XP, but not widely used or supported), newer DirectX (needed for latest games), that's about it.dodonnell wrote:So what can you do with Windows 8, that you can't do with Windows 7, or for that matter Windows XP ?
8 vs 7...8 should be called "Windows Tablet Edition". It's for tablets and hybrid laptop/tablet devices.
I am pleased to report that the invisible forces of destruction have been unmasked, marking a turning point chapter when the fraudulent and speculative winds are cast into the inferno of extinction.
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Another option there is to get an external optical drive and connect it to the USB port. Then you don't have to carry it when you don't need it, and it's easier to replace when it breaks (or you can use it with a new computer when the laptop breaks),JTJjr wrote:It must have an optical drive and be able to both read and write CDs and DVDs.
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
USB is newfangled technology, probably not worth learning...floppy discs for me.Another option there is to get an external optical drive and connect it to the USB port. Then you don't have to carry it when you don't need it, and it's easier to replace when it breaks (or you can use it with a new computer when the laptop breaks),
At least with discs you can write on them and they work with my filing system.
- Mel Lindauer
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Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
What an advance that was from the 5 1/4" floppies! First it was 720K and then a "huge" 1.44Mb. Back then, it was hard to believe you could get that much data on such a small disk.yatesd wrote:USB is newfangled technology, probably not worth learning...floppy discs for me.Another option there is to get an external optical drive and connect it to the USB port. Then you don't have to carry it when you don't need it, and it's easier to replace when it breaks (or you can use it with a new computer when the laptop breaks),
At least with discs you can write on them and they work with my filing system.
PS - Don't lost the key!
Best Regards - Mel |
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Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
HyperV, SSDs, Bitlocker, SMB3, rapid boot, better power management, native antivirus support, outstanding Search capabilities and how about security updates after April 2014? When your accounting department is hacked in 2015 due to a known security vulnerability in XP, management will be happy with your decision to keep XP. On basically anything with a touchscreen, Windows XP and 7 are woefully inadequate. Dual purpose tablets + laptops are the future.dodonnell wrote:So what can you do with Windows 8, that you can't do with Windows 7, or for that matter Windows XP ?
We have a "business rule" at my company that requires a significant increase in capability to justify the cost and risk of a software upgrade.
... it's amazing how few upgrades can be justified.
- frugaltype
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Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Don't you mean this?
How about this?
How about this?
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
Ok, I get the point. Perhaps my reluctance to tackle the challenges of Win 8.1 was a bit premature, but after a week of reading online to prepare to use the new laptop and 3 days of trying to figure out things on Win 8 that I can do with my eyes closed on Vista, I decided I had hit a point of diminishing returns. My guess is that some of you who think that I should try again to move into Win 8.1 are still working and have an IT staff to back them up. Well, I wish I did.
I just want a reliable, light weight computer to keep in touch with my friends in the States via Skype, browse the internet, watch Slingbox, make CD music compilations and play videos on a nice clear bright screen. I can do that now with my 7 year old computer, but I know it is on its last legs and I want to get a new laptop while I am in the States to take back to France before my old one breaks down.
I am still working through all the good links and advice many of you provided. Thank you. I will let you know what I find and buy.
Peace, JTJjr
I just want a reliable, light weight computer to keep in touch with my friends in the States via Skype, browse the internet, watch Slingbox, make CD music compilations and play videos on a nice clear bright screen. I can do that now with my 7 year old computer, but I know it is on its last legs and I want to get a new laptop while I am in the States to take back to France before my old one breaks down.
I am still working through all the good links and advice many of you provided. Thank you. I will let you know what I find and buy.
Peace, JTJjr
Aimlessly wandering to discover where I am.
Re: Just returned new laptop with Window 8.1
If that's all you want to do, you're likely better off with a tablet, such as an ipad or a Nexus 7.JTJjr wrote:I just want a reliable, light weight computer to keep in touch with my friends in the States via Skype, browse the internet, watch Slingbox, make CD music compilations and play videos on a nice clear bright screen. I can do that now with my 7 year old computer, but I know it is on its last legs and I want to get a new laptop while I am in the States to take back to France before my old one breaks down.
You won't be able to burn CDs, if that's what you mean by CD music compilations, but there are better ways to organize music.