Looking to purchase a Camera... Any Suggestions

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jackholloway
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Re: Looking to purchase a Camera... Any Suggestions

Post by jackholloway »

WendyW wrote:
jackholloway wrote:I took the om-d e-m5 on half a dozen trips, and it took wonderful shots. I could put pro-yep tour glass on it, and get shots that my old canon would be challenged by. A modern full frame slr could have done even better, but I would not have been able to put a fast prime on a full frame dslr and stuff it into a coat pocket.
I suppose it all comes down to how big your pockets are.

If I'm ever on vacation and wearing a jacket that can accommodate an Olympus OM-D E-M5, something has gone horribly wrong with my vacation plan.

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Left to right: Lumix LX5, Olympus OM-D E-M5, Nikon D300
I don't know anyone who leaves the overlong kit zoom on. I use the 45mm prime, but I know many who put on a pancake. Either option fits in my coat pocket well.
linuxizer
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Re: Looking to purchase a Camera... Any Suggestions

Post by linuxizer »

I would not buy a larger point-and-shoot right now. Either get an RX100, a micro 4/3, or a full DSLR. My preference is for the m43--the new GM1 looks amazing, but for $110 you can get a GF3 or around $220 for a GX1. Put a zoom lens on it an its the same size as a G15 (or even smaller) but with way, way more capabilities.
WendyW
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Re: Looking to purchase a Camera... Any Suggestions

Post by WendyW »

linuxizer wrote:My preference is for the m43--the new GM1 looks amazing... Put a zoom lens on it an its the same size as a G15 (or even smaller) but with way, way more capabilities.
Really?
Can you provide an example of one of these capabilities that a Micro Four Thirds camera has, that the G15 doesn't?

Without any kind of lens mounted, the GM1 is indeed small. But how is that measurement relevant? With even the smallest lens mounted, it becomes much too big to carry in a pants pocket.

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Panasonic GM1, Canon S120, Sony RX100
linuxizer
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Re: Looking to purchase a Camera... Any Suggestions

Post by linuxizer »

WendyW wrote:Can you provide an example of one of these capabilities that a Micro Four Thirds camera has, that the G15 doesn't?
Just a few areas:
- Sensor size (with attendant depth-of-field and image quality advantages): DXOMark lists the GF3--two generations old now--as a 50 and the G15 as a 46. GX1 vs. G16 is a similar advantage. And then the newest generation (GX7, E-M5, E-M1, GM1) is on another level altogether. It's not listing the lens they used to test for me for some reason, but assuming it's merely a good one, then mounting one of the known spectacular lenses available should bump up the quality still further. There is really something beautiful about the pictures from the 20/1.7 or 45/1.8, and the system has others known to be truly great.
- Autofocus speed (G15 is said to be "among the fastest point-and-shoots around", whereas m43 is widely acknowledged as having among the fastest AF of *any* camera for static subjects -- moving subjects are where DSLRs still really shine, although the E-M1's phase detection pixels have closed that gap somewhat)
- Interchangeable lenses (want a 14-28mm equivalent zoom? done. or a 200-600mm equivalent? or a 90 f/1.8? or an old and cheap but sharp adapted macro lens?). Since lenses depreciate much less quickly than bodies, this is a huge advantage and allows you to "invest" in some really nice glass.
- Size: http://j.mp/1hwPxat
- Video quality

When you can have a GF3 plus 14-42 zoom for around $200 (or better yet the new 12-32), I just can't see spending more for a largish point-and-shoot with fixed lens, no matter its other qualities.
Last edited by linuxizer on Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
WendyW
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Re: Looking to purchase a Camera... Any Suggestions

Post by WendyW »

linuxizer wrote:I just can't see spending more for a largish point-and-shoot with fixed lens, no matter its other qualities.
I think you don't know what the term "point-and-shoot" means. The Panasonic DMC-S3 is an example of a point-and-shoot. None of the cameras mentioned in this thread are point-and-shoot cameras.
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linuxizer
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Re: Looking to purchase a Camera... Any Suggestions

Post by linuxizer »

I am using the term "point-and-shoot" to refer to cameras with a fixed zoom lens and a small sensor size. I am not using it pejoratively, but merely to lump together all such cameras. The category is dying out, and for good reason. The gap in functionality between smartphone cameras and small-sensor fixed-lens cameras is just too narrow to justify the extra cost and bulk.

At the upper end of the P&S range are what are now termed "premium compacts" or similar marketing terminology. These are doing better, but here again they're getting squeezed on both sides. m43, Nex and similar aren't that much bigger even with a lens (and in some cases are smaller). And they're simply more capable, and often cheaper.

Note that I have nothing against the G15 in particular. It's a fine camera, but in a niche that is less and less useful. I have the same set of criticisms about the Panasonic LX7, for instance, although I believe that's at least got a size advantage.
WendyW
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Re: Looking to purchase a Camera... Any Suggestions

Post by WendyW »

linuxizer wrote:I am using the term "point-and-shoot" to refer to cameras with a fixed zoom lens and a small sensor size.
Ah, that explains it. You entirely misunderstand what the term means.
linuxizer
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Re: Looking to purchase a Camera... Any Suggestions

Post by linuxizer »

WendyW wrote:
linuxizer wrote:I am using the term "point-and-shoot" to refer to cameras with a fixed zoom lens and a small sensor size.
Ah, that explains it. You entirely misunderstand what the term means.
Snark aside, if you replace "point-and-shoot" with whatever your preferred term is in the two places in which it appears, the meaning does not change. I'm not sure why you took my post so personally, but I am happy to discuss substance rather than quibble about which term I use.
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AustenNut
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Re: Looking to purchase a Camera... Any Suggestions

Post by AustenNut »

Although I enjoy taking photographs, after several years I've realized that I'm primarily a point & shoot kind of photographer. Last year I got a Sony HX20V, and I've really enjoyed it. When we went on our trip to Tanzania this summer, it easily fit in a pocket while a guy on safari with us needed an entire backpack to hold his dSLR and lenses. And the optical zoom between his lens and mine was the same (same wide lens and same distance). Yes, his shutter response time was faster, but rarely did it make a difference in terms of what we were shooting. Almost everyone who has seen the photobook I created from the trip comment on the quality of the photos (some even thought it was a professional's book we purchased). Although there are some images where I know a different camera would have taken a better picture, 99% of the time this fit our needs perfectly. It was definitely not worth the price for us to pay more, and we're extremely happy with the small size.
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midareff
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Re: Looking to purchase a Camera... Any Suggestions

Post by midareff »

WendyW wrote:
midareff wrote:The appeal of mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras is the smaller size and weight you get by eliminating the mirror/prism system.
The problem for me with mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras is that -- once you put a lens on it -- they aren't much smaller or more portable than a traditional DSLR.

I see the current crop of mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras as the Pontiac Azteks of cameras: They can do a lot of things, but none of them really well.

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Sorry Wendy but that's just plain wrong. I've carried Canon's 5DMKII, a top level pro camera when it was the latest model, and several L (Canon's pro glass line) lenses through the Grand Canon and quite a few other places. It was not the first camera I used on trips and tours .... and my work sold online, so we can assume I'm not a beginner. In many ways photo images are like high-end audio. If your ear's are dead you won't hear the differences and if your eyes are you won't see the difference in the output of different cameras. I tried m 4/3 (a mirrorless design) on my first extended trip through South Africa. I loved the form factor, the size and weight, but hated the results and sold the camera and lenses quickly when I got back home and moved back to dslrs and L glass. About a year ago I was looking at some images taken by a newly released mirrorless camera and though I was looking at images taken by my 5DMKII. The image quality and color rendition was top-flite in every way. ISO output at higher levels was on par as well through 6400 and even 12800. With a top zoom lens attached it was perhaps 1/2 the size and 1/3 the weight of my dslr setup. Now I can tour with a small shoulder bag instead of a 10-12 pound backpack and get the same quality of images as I did with a pro level dslr. Is this particular camera as good for sports as my dslr was.. NO, but I'm not a sports photographer and don't have any intention of being.

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midareff
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Re: Looking to purchase a Camera... Any Suggestions

Post by midareff »

I don't understand the appeal of these mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras.

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If I'm going to be lugging a camera bag around, I might as well get a proper DSLR like a Nikon D5100 or Canon Rebel T3i -- which represents excellent bang for the buck in terms of price versus performance and flexibility.

If your point of reference for lugging a camera bag around is a 5100 or T3i with kit glass there is not much point in discussing performance levels. .. they are plain Jane entry level dslrs with APS-C size sensors. I've been on Safari's and extended tours where folks only brought their cell phone for a camera. Try those images on a high resolution 27" monitor. Different strokes for different folks.... if an entry level dslr and kit glass is your good enough, so be it, but understand there are mirrorless designs out there that are much better at many things, if not everything, than those dslrs with the latest Olympus EM 1 and Fuji's XE2 being 2 examples that come to mind immediately. What you won't get with them is a camera and lenses for $400-500.
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midareff
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Re: Looking to purchase a Camera... Any Suggestions

Post by midareff »

arsenebould wrote:Hi Guys,

I am looking to purchase a decent camera, I have been thinking about canon G15, do you guys have any experience with it?
I have long been thinking that canon is the best, Is the playing field changed? Are panasonic and fujiflim etc offerings good?

Thanks a lot for your guidance...
There is an old quote that goes like this... "No one ever got fired for bringing a Canon or Nikon back to the office."

Along the way I've had the G9, G10, G12 and G1X as compacts for carry along or as backups to dslrs. They all take nice pictures if you are OK with the shortcomings of all compact cameras, namely limited dynamic range and slow response. I've also used various Olympus and Fuji cameras with excellent results. I tried a Panasonic camera and didn't like it although many do. For everyday photography you can't go wrong with a G15 and it is an excellent compact camera.
tibbitts
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Re: Looking to purchase a Camera... Any Suggestions

Post by tibbitts »

midareff wrote:
arsenebould wrote:Hi Guys,

I am looking to purchase a decent camera, I have been thinking about canon G15, do you guys have any experience with it?
I have long been thinking that canon is the best, Is the playing field changed? Are panasonic and fujiflim etc offerings good?

Thanks a lot for your guidance...
There is an old quote that goes like this... "No one ever got fired for bringing a Canon or Nikon back to the office."
That's (still) true, but a lot of that has to do with professional services, where Canon and Nikon have a much, much bigger presence than anybody else. And of course in professional cameras, where there are very few other products to compete. Lower and mid-range cameras from other vendors are much more competitive with Canon and Nikon offerings.
wander
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Re: Looking to purchase a Camera... Any Suggestions

Post by wander »

Raybo wrote:Don't know if this is of any use to you but I purchased a Canon GX160 IS, which takes 2 AA batteries. I like this as I carry this camera on bike tours and don't want to worry about running out of charge in the middle of a ride.

It is a great camera that has longer analog zoom capability than the point and click type camera. It is a bit bulkier (it wouldn't fit in my cycling jersey back pocket) but a much better camera.
+1.
I like this camera and feel like having all needed functions like my Canon EOS D but much less bulky. I normally take this camera to friends' wedding or travel. Partly, AA battery was the reason I bought it. This is the last model of this line that has AA batteries.

Correction: It is Canon SX 160 IS, not GX 160 IS
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gatorman
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Re: Looking to purchase a Camera... Any Suggestions

Post by gatorman »

arsenebould wrote:Hi Guys,

I am looking to purchase a decent camera, I have been thinking about canon G15, do you guys have any experience with it?
I have long been thinking that canon is the best, Is the playing field changed? Are panasonic and fujiflim etc offerings good?

Thanks a lot for your guidance...
To help us give you a better answer to your question, could you please specify how you will use the camera and the maximum you are prepared to pay?
countofmc
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Re: Looking to purchase a Camera... Any Suggestions

Post by countofmc »

gatorman wrote:
arsenebould wrote:Hi Guys,

I am looking to purchase a decent camera, I have been thinking about canon G15, do you guys have any experience with it?
I have long been thinking that canon is the best, Is the playing field changed? Are panasonic and fujiflim etc offerings good?

Thanks a lot for your guidance...
To help us give you a better answer to your question, could you please specify how you will use the camera and the maximum you are prepared to pay?
+1.

Unless you get more specific, any advice will be broad strokes, so I"ll offer mine.

I'd say at this point the two main factors you should consider are sensor size and ergonomics.

For sensor size, in ascending order of size, there is 1/2.3" (basically all compact cameras on the market), 1/1.7 (upscale compacts like Canon S110 and the G15 you are looking at), 2/3 (Fuji XF1 and X10), 1 inch sensor (Sony RX100), Micro 4/3 sensor (Panasonic, Olympus M43 models), APS-C sensor (consumer versions of CaNikon), and Full-Frame.

Your overall image quality, depth of field control (the ability to get those professional looking pictures with out of focus backgrounds), and better lower light performance will come as you go UP in sensor size (there are exceptions, but generally we are talking broad strokes here). Generally, so will price.

For ergonomics, I'd say there are 3 main types of cameras right now. Pocketable compacts, DSLRs, and things in between (cameras you can't pocket but will have a considerable size advantage over a traditional DSLR). Things in between would generally be the mirrorless interchangeable lens models like Sony NEX or Olympus Micro 4/3, or something with a fixed lens like a Canon G1X.

So OP, what I'd do is pick the ergonomics first (what size camera you'd want), and then from there look at sensor size. Generally larger cameras have larger sensors though, so that's kind of the tradeoff.

Again, broad strokes.
killjoy2012
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Re: Looking to purchase a Camera... Any Suggestions

Post by killjoy2012 »

I agree with Countofmc's advice above, and would add that if you're looking for the biggest powerhouse of a camera that's still fully pocketable, the Sony RX100 is likely it... as long as you can afford the price tag. And that leads to the question I posted earlier about the cost/benefit vs. a camera phone and whether it's worth it you. $700 is a lot of coin for a pocket camera, and hard to justify for all but the rich or true photography hobbyists. That said, I still wish I had one! :)
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deanbrew
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Re: Looking to purchase a Camera... Any Suggestions

Post by deanbrew »

In addition to ergonomics and image sensor size mentioned by countofmc, one might also want to consider the speed of the lens (how low the f-stop is at both wide-angle and zoom levels), low-light performance (which is related to lens speed as well as other operational factors) and optical zoom range. While the Canon G15 has a smaller sensor than some other similar cameras, the lens is generally reviewed as superior in terms of speed and the camera is also reviewed as very capable in low-light conditions.
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mlipps
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Re: Looking to purchase a Camera... Any Suggestions

Post by mlipps »

killjoy2012 wrote:I agree with Countofmc's advice above, and would add that if you're looking for the biggest powerhouse of a camera that's still fully pocketable, the Sony RX100 is likely it... as long as you can afford the price tag. And that leads to the question I posted earlier about the cost/benefit vs. a camera phone and whether it's worth it you. $700 is a lot of coin for a pocket camera, and hard to justify for all but the rich or true photography hobbyists. That said, I still wish I had one! :)
If you're serious about wanting one, get the original model from Amazon Warehouse. $451. It's a steal. That camera is my baby.
pomomojo
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Re: Looking to purchase a Camera... Any Suggestions

Post by pomomojo »

arsenebould wrote:Hi Guys,

I am looking to purchase a decent camera, I have been thinking about canon G15, do you guys have any experience with it?
I have long been thinking that canon is the best, Is the playing field changed? Are panasonic and fujiflim etc offerings good?

Thanks a lot for your guidance...
How are you intending on using this camera? If you want a camera that is truly compact and not much bigger than a cell phone, I agree with the recommendation of the Sony RX100. If you are willing to carry around a camera that is slightly bigger, I suggest investigating the world of micro 4/3rds. Most entry models start around $500. You will notice an upgrade, especially in low light settings, as compared to iPhone pictures.
pomomojo
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Re: Looking to purchase a Camera... Any Suggestions

Post by pomomojo »

WendyW wrote:
obgraham wrote:If I'm going to be lugging a camera bag around, I might as well get a proper DSLR like a Nikon D5100 or Canon Rebel T3i -- which represents excellent bang for the buck in terms of price versus performance and flexibility.

.......

Everything in between doesn't make much sense to me.
In my experience, the best solution is to have two cameras: One really big one DSLR, and one really little pocket camera.
The Fuji X-Pro/XE-1/XE-2 all house APS-C sensors that are equivalent to the Rebel T2/3/4/5i with regards to size. Fuji actually performs better in low light situations while Canon gets the nod for video. Canon have a wider spectrum of glass available though all of the XF lens sold by Fuji are very high quality. In fact, the Zeiss Touit lenses that are offered for the X-mounts are not really recommended given marginal or even questionable improvement in performance. The Olympus OMD-M5 is equally strong as the Fuji, though in a different capacity. Ultimately, for most non-professionals, interchangeable lens cameras are more than enough to capture to good to great quality pictures.
WendyW
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Re: Looking to purchase a Camera... Any Suggestions

Post by WendyW »

'
Good comparison here (from half-a-year ago) of enthusiast compact cameras, if you decide to go that way...

http://www.thewirecutter.com/reviews/th ... sonic-lx7/

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