dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Topic Author
pablolo
Posts: 363
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:32 pm

dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by pablolo »

Hi . Other than convenience, does using a dishwasher use less water than doing dishes by hand?
User avatar
serbeer
Posts: 1304
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:09 pm

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by serbeer »

pablolo wrote:Hi . Other than convenience, does using a dishwasher use less water than doing dishes by hand?
You bet. I reduced my monthly water consumption by 35% once I started using dishwasher. From 10K gallons to 6+K gallons. But electricity bill went up, not 100% sure by how much.
User avatar
cflannagan
Posts: 1208
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:44 am
Location: Working Remotely

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by cflannagan »

pablolo wrote:Hi . Other than convenience, does using a dishwasher use less water than doing dishes by hand?
By a lot I'm sure.

But for some of us, time equals money, we find it "cheaper" (in terms of time-and-money kind of relationship) to go with dishwasher.
Last edited by cflannagan on Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
shorvath
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:20 pm

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by shorvath »

There's also a sanitation aspect - dishwashers can use much hotter water than you can when hand washing, killing more bacteria, etc.
Drunken Roboticist
User avatar
tadamsmar
Posts: 9972
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 12:33 pm

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by tadamsmar »

From my experience, few people use their dishwashers as specified in the owner's manual. In particular, they rinse the all dishes before they load, which wastes water. Also, they load it incorrectly and use too much detergent.

I have only met one person who used their dishwasher specified in their owner's manual and they tried to be sneaky about it when they had guests because they thought not rinsing would gross out the guests.

I once advocated following the owner's manual on another forum and I was quickly accused of being a troll.
Last edited by tadamsmar on Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Toons
Posts: 14467
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:20 am
Location: Hills of Tennessee

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by Toons »

FYI:
New Energy Star machine ,3-5 gallons :happy
Efficient hand-washing Up to 8 gallons

http://www.nrdc.org/living/stuff/great- ... debate.asp
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee
sscritic
Posts: 21853
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:36 am

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by sscritic »

For Toons, it depends on how far he is from the crick in them hills he lives in. If he wants to save a trip, he takes his clothes and washboard along with his dishes.
User avatar
deanbrew
Posts: 1500
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:05 pm
Location: The Keystone State

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by deanbrew »

I know it seems counter-intuitive, but I've read in many sources that it's cheaper and uses less water to use a dishwasher. As tadamsmar says, however, many people waste far too much hot water rinsing dishes nearly clean before putting them in the machine. My SIL is notorious for this, and it's just about impossible to tell whether or not the DW has been run when she loads it, based on looking at the contents. I always rinse off chunks, especially starchy food, but you can definitely tell when my DW has been run or not.
Last edited by deanbrew on Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The course of history shows that as the government grows, liberty decreases." Thomas Jefferson
bungalow10
Posts: 2311
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:28 am
Location: Chicago North Shore

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by bungalow10 »

tadamsmar wrote:From my experience, few people use their dishwashers as specified in the owner's manual. In particular, they rinse the all dishes before they load, which wastes water. Also, they load it incorrectly and use too much detergent.

I have only met one person who used their dishwasher specified in their owner's manual and they tried to be sneaky about it when they had guests because they thought not rinsing would gross out the guests.

I once advocated following the owner's manual on another forum and I was quickly accused of being a troll.
We have to rinse, otherwise the grinder in our dishwasher clogs up and recirculates the dirty water over and over. It's not a very old machine and was mid-grade when we bought it. Luckily there are YouTube videos on how to dismantle the guts of the machine and clean the grinder - saving us the wonderful $150 service fee we were paying almost annually.
An elephant for a dime is only a good deal if you need an elephant and have a dime.
sscritic
Posts: 21853
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:36 am

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by sscritic »

Jack Sprat and his wife use their tongues. No water required.
User avatar
frugaltype
Posts: 1952
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:07 am

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by frugaltype »

I've never understood why people wash their dishes before putting them in the dishwasher. If there is any significant amount of food on something, I scrape it off. That's it. I don't have to deal with baked on meat, though, since this is a vegetarian household.

Some time ago I read you can use half the amount of detergent in dishwashers and clothes washers that the manufacturers of those products say to use and I've been doing that ever since. I see no difference in the results.

Edited to add, I air dry the dishes. It took a while to get used to having the dishwasher open and the racks pulled out into the kitchen, but now I don't notice it. I dump out any water in the dishes when I open it up.
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 4467
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:19 pm

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by BrandonBogle »

Hmmm. Interesting concept. Is it universally true? My dishwasher when full I am sure uses less water than washing all those dishes, utensils, and cups by hand, but what if the dishwasher is only half full? We always run out of clean utensils long before the dishwasher is full. I end up running the dishwasher once a week though.
User avatar
ryuns
Posts: 3511
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:07 pm
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by ryuns »

Like tadamsmar, I generally don't rinse unless it's something that needs a good soaking and/or something that I'm going to hand wash anyway, like anything that's big enough take up half my dishwasher. I'm a big fan of those long handled dish brushes to scrub off the food bits before I throw the dishes in the washer. No rinsing necessary, except for the brush at the end. Ikea makes pretty sweet ones: http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/catalog/products/30149556/
An inconvenience is only an adventure wrongly considered; an adventure is an inconvenience rightly considered. -- GK Chesterton
User avatar
mephistophles
Posts: 3110
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:34 am

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by mephistophles »

serbeer wrote:
pablolo wrote:Hi . Other than convenience, does using a dishwasher use less water than doing dishes by hand?
You bet. I reduced my monthly water consumption by 35% once I started using dishwasher. From 10K gallons to 6+K gallons. But electricity bill went up, not 100% sure by how much.
Toilets work on the same principal.
gkaplan
Posts: 7034
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:34 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by gkaplan »

I'm single. I can't see using a dishwasher for washing the few dishes I use each meal.
Gordon
The Wizard
Posts: 13356
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:45 pm
Location: Reading, MA

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by The Wizard »

gkaplan wrote:I'm single. I can't see using a dishwasher for washing the few dishes I use each meal.
I'm single also and I love my dishwasher.
I run it once a week whether I need to or not.
And I run a 5-minute "quick rinse" cycle just before the full cycle. This gets the cold water out of the pipes and much of the stuck on food off before the main wash cycle...
Attempted new signature...
User avatar
black jack
Posts: 806
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:13 pm

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by black jack »

gkaplan wrote:I'm single. I can't see using a dishwasher for washing the few dishes I use each meal.
Wife and I used to wash all our dwhes by hand.
Getting ready to sell our house, we checked the dishwasher, which had not been used once in the eight years we lived there (we had used it to store large pans).
It no longer worked.
We bought a new dishwasher for the house.
In our new house, we now use the dishwasher regularly.
We cannot absolutely prove [that they are wrong who say] that we have seen our best days. But so said all who came before us, and with just as much apparent reason. | -T. B. Macaulay (1800-1859)
jridger2011
Posts: 458
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:17 pm

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by jridger2011 »

For plastic containers, I find that the top rack doesn't do well for grease causing me to use dishwashing liquid to at least cut some grease. Other than that, I think it uses less water since it's not continuous rinsing of each item.
ieee488
Posts: 1989
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:57 am

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by ieee488 »

BrandonBogle wrote:Hmmm. Interesting concept. Is it universally true? My dishwasher when full I am sure uses less water than washing all those dishes, utensils, and cups by hand, but what if the dishwasher is only half full? We always run out of clean utensils long before the dishwasher is full. I end up running the dishwasher once a week though.
I am curious about this too.
Dell Optiplex 3020 (Win7 Pro), Dell Precision M6300 (Ubuntu Linux 12.04), Dell Precision M6300 (Win7 Pro), Dell Latitude D531 (Vista)
User avatar
FrugalInvestor
Posts: 6214
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:20 pm

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by FrugalInvestor »

tadamsmar wrote:From my experience, few people use their dishwashers as specified in the owner's manual. In particular, they rinse the all dishes before they load, which wastes water.
Bingo! At least for us anyway. With only two people in the house we don't like our dishes sitting around for three days in the dishwasher smelling and getting crusty before we run it. But then again, I'd probably rinse the dishes before putting them in the wash water if I was washing by hand - otherwise the wash water would get awfully grungy. So I don't know which would actually take more water. No matter which it is, you won't find me washing most of my dishes by hand unless my dishwasher is broken.
Have a plan, stay the course and simplify. Then ignore the noise!
User avatar
Rainier
Posts: 1733
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:59 am

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by Rainier »

tadamsmar wrote:From my experience, few people use their dishwashers as specified in the owner's manual. In particular, they rinse the all dishes before they load, which wastes water. Also, they load it incorrectly and use too much detergent.

I have only met one person who used their dishwasher specified in their owner's manual and they tried to be sneaky about it when they had guests because they thought not rinsing would gross out the guests.

I once advocated following the owner's manual on another forum and I was quickly accused of being a troll.
You haven't met me. I've read the manual, I'm an expert loader, and I only use a trace of detergent.

Washing dishes by hand is not Boglehead like.

If you are single and can't fill the dishwasher....get more dishes. Or run it half full, or 1/4 full. Still way better than by hand.
User avatar
Epsilon Delta
Posts: 8090
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:00 pm

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by Epsilon Delta »

FrugalInvestor wrote:
tadamsmar wrote:From my experience, few people use their dishwashers as specified in the owner's manual. In particular, they rinse the all dishes before they load, which wastes water.
Bingo! At least for us anyway. With only two people in the house we don't like our dishes sitting around for three days in the dishwasher smelling and getting crusty before we run it.
Most modern dish washers have a rinse cycle designed to solve exactly this problem. They probably even mention it in the Fine Manual.
lindisfarne
Posts: 411
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:55 am

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by lindisfarne »

The answer depends on how you go about washing dishes by hand. If you leave the water running on full from the time you start washing until the time you end washing, the dishwasher probably uses less water. But, one can wash dishes by hand very differently and use a minimal amount of water.

The concern with dishwashers is not simply the water used, however.

If you want to know about overall costs & impact on the environment, washing dishes by hand (without using copious amounts of water and using an environmentally friendly soap) wins hands down. It takes all kinds of resources, including water & petroleum to manufacture a dishwasher & ship it to the store then to your home. Don't forget mining certain resources using other resources. Running the dishwasher requires electricity.

But how much do you hate washing dishes by hand?

(Bosch, a dishwasher manufacturer, did the study everyone cites when they claim that dishwashers use less water. In this study, however, Bosch assumed people use FAR more water than any normal person does when washing dishes by hand. Bosch also conveniently forgot about all the water involved in all the steps related to manufacturing, and also forgot about all the other environmental costs related to manufacturing & shipping parts, then putting them all together, then shipping to store, then shipping to your home. There's a lot of petroleum in a dishwasher by the time you factor everything in!
User avatar
tadamsmar
Posts: 9972
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 12:33 pm

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by tadamsmar »

bungalow10 wrote:
tadamsmar wrote:From my experience, few people use their dishwashers as specified in the owner's manual. In particular, they rinse the all dishes before they load, which wastes water. Also, they load it incorrectly and use too much detergent.

I have only met one person who used their dishwasher specified in their owner's manual and they tried to be sneaky about it when they had guests because they thought not rinsing would gross out the guests.

I once advocated following the owner's manual on another forum and I was quickly accused of being a troll.
We have to rinse, otherwise the grinder in our dishwasher clogs up and recirculates the dirty water over and over. It's not a very old machine and was mid-grade when we bought it. Luckily there are YouTube videos on how to dismantle the guts of the machine and clean the grinder - saving us the wonderful $150 service fee we were paying almost annually.
Is that a Kitchenaid? We had that or a similar problem with our fairly new dishwasher. Our previous dishwasher was a lot more robust.

I need to learn how to unclog it if it happens again. I am now careful about scraping the food off with the new one. The technician advised us not to clean the dishes too much because the detergent needed some dirt to work on. Not sure what he meant, but pre-cleaned dishes may contribute to glass etching. Also some dishwasher manuals recommend that you fill the cups only 1/3 full if you have soft water to prevent glass etching.
nordlead
Posts: 739
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:09 am

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by nordlead »

shorvath wrote:There's also a sanitation aspect - dishwashers can use much hotter water than you can when hand washing, killing more bacteria, etc.
Unless you wear heat protective gloves you can't get water anywhere hot enough to kill any bacteria when washing by hand. So, by hand you have to do a lot of scrubbing to get rid of bacteria (hence why doctors scrub so long).

Anyways, I just scrape everything out and the dishwasher does the rest. I don't use heat dry as that is a waste of energy.

Not only does the dishwasher use less water compared to me washing by hand (dishwasher uses ~12 gallons of water at the most which is roughly 4 minutes of the water running), it saves me tons of time. Even if using the dishwasher used the same amount of water the time savings would be worth it for me.
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 4467
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:19 pm

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by BrandonBogle »

lindisfarne wrote:The answer depends on how you go about washing dishes by hand. If you leave the water running on full from the time you start washing until the time you end washing, the dishwasher probably uses less water. But, one can wash dishes by hand very differently and use a minimal amount of water.
Most of the time, if I was dishes by hand, this is how I do it. But then, it's usually a salad spinner, a salad bowl, and a fork. More than that and it's probably being added to the dishwasher.

I also NEVER pre-rinse my dishes. My philosophy is if it needs some special handling before the dishwasher, I will just wash that item by hand. I do however empty leftovers into the trash using a fork before putting the dish in the dishwasher.
User avatar
deanbrew
Posts: 1500
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:05 pm
Location: The Keystone State

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by deanbrew »

black jack wrote: Wife and I used to wash all our dwhes by hand.
Getting ready to sell our house, we checked the dishwasher, which had not been used once in the eight years we lived there (we had used it to store large pans).
It no longer worked.
We bought a new dishwasher for the house.
In our new house, we now use the dishwasher regularly.
Wow. When we were first married, my wife and I rented a house that had no dishwasher. Somehow we overlooked that when we looked at the house. We made sure to never make that mistake again. When we renovated our current house, we installed two dishwashers and regularly use both. Having two is beneficial nearly all of the time, but is absolutely wonderful after a family gathering or party. Both my wife and I regularly comment that installing two DW was one of the smartest things we did when designing the kitchen.
"The course of history shows that as the government grows, liberty decreases." Thomas Jefferson
Professor Emeritus
Posts: 2628
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:43 am

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by Professor Emeritus »

Most common dirty water recycling problem is not the dishwasher but the sink disposall. Most dishwashers exhaust into the disposal. If it has not been run, the water backs up and does no not exhaust. You recirculate the dirty water.
bungalow10
Posts: 2311
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:28 am
Location: Chicago North Shore

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by bungalow10 »

tadamsmar wrote:
bungalow10 wrote:
tadamsmar wrote:From my experience, few people use their dishwashers as specified in the owner's manual. In particular, they rinse the all dishes before they load, which wastes water. Also, they load it incorrectly and use too much detergent.

I have only met one person who used their dishwasher specified in their owner's manual and they tried to be sneaky about it when they had guests because they thought not rinsing would gross out the guests.

I once advocated following the owner's manual on another forum and I was quickly accused of being a troll.
We have to rinse, otherwise the grinder in our dishwasher clogs up and recirculates the dirty water over and over. It's not a very old machine and was mid-grade when we bought it. Luckily there are YouTube videos on how to dismantle the guts of the machine and clean the grinder - saving us the wonderful $150 service fee we were paying almost annually.
Is that a Kitchenaid? We had that or a similar problem with our fairly new dishwasher. Our previous dishwasher was a lot more robust.

I need to learn how to unclog it if it happens again. I am now careful about scraping the food off with the new one. The technician advised us not to clean the dishes too much because the detergent needed some dirt to work on. Not sure what he meant, but pre-cleaned dishes may contribute to glass etching. Also some dishwasher manuals recommend that you fill the cups only 1/3 full if you have soft water to prevent glass etching.
It's a Kenmore Elite. But I believe it was made by either Kitchenaid or Whirlpool (can't remember). We have found that if we get off most chunks and run it on the "pots and pans" cycle (using more and hotter water) it will prolong the time between cleanings and it is less fussy about things being rinsed. We run our dishwasher at least once/day, so it does get heavy use.
An elephant for a dime is only a good deal if you need an elephant and have a dime.
User avatar
lthenderson
Posts: 8525
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:43 am
Location: Iowa

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by lthenderson »

Just bought a new dishwasher earlier this year and it comes with a feature that automatically determines the dirt load in the water and tailors the cycle length accordingly. The cleaner the dishes going in, the shorter (and thus less water) the cycle is.

For me, I look at it this way. How much money could I be making doing something else for an hour a day instead of dishes by hand? What is my time worth? Looking at it this way and a dishwasher more than pays for itself over handwashing.
User avatar
Abe
Posts: 2572
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:24 pm
Location: Earth in the Milky Way Galaxy

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by Abe »

My wife says she can wash dishes in the dish washer or I can wash them. I don't argue. :happy
Slow and steady wins the race.
likegarden
Posts: 3181
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:33 pm

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by likegarden »

Everyone wrote a lot about washing dishes, nothing to do with investing. Anyway, here is what we do. We pre-rinse all dishes, use the dishwasher to sterilize our eating and drinking utensils, fill the dispenser in the washer only half with detergents. I am the loader and unloader!
User avatar
Toons
Posts: 14467
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:20 am
Location: Hills of Tennessee

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by Toons »

sscritic wrote:For Toons, it depends on how far he is from the crick in them hills he lives in. If he wants to save a trip, he takes his clothes and washboard along with his dishes.

lol excellent Bravo! :happy
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee
Grasshopper
Posts: 1209
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:52 pm

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by Grasshopper »

I hand wash, but pee outside to compensate for the additional water use. :beer
john94549
Posts: 4638
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by john94549 »

We rinse our dishes, cups, glasses, and utensils fairly well before loading (to avoid the "caked-on" issue), then run only when full. I do wash over-size pots and pans by hand, but that's about it.

Think about it. To wash by hand, and get anywhere near hot enough water for rinsing, you waste gallon upon gallon of water from the hot water heater to the tap, not to mention the water wasted down the sink between rinses. Having lived through many California droughts, I'm abnormally fixated on water wasting.
User avatar
black jack
Posts: 806
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:13 pm

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by black jack »

john94549 wrote:Think about it. To wash by hand, and get anywhere near hot enough water for rinsing, you waste gallon upon gallon of water from the hot water heater to the tap, not to mention the water wasted down the sink between rinses.
Think about it: water that is hot enough to make a difference in terms of killing bacteria on your dishes would peel the skin off your hands. It is the soap, washing the grease off the dishes and carrying the bacteria away with it, that does the cleaning, not the water temperature. Same as washing your hands.
deanbrew wrote:Wow. When we were first married, my wife and I rented a house that had no dishwasher. Somehow we overlooked that when we looked at the house. We made sure to never make that mistake again. When we renovated our current house, we installed two dishwashers and regularly use both. Having two is beneficial nearly all of the time, but is absolutely wonderful after a family gathering or party. Both my wife and I regularly comment that installing two DW was one of the smartest things we did when designing the kitchen.
Wow: two dishwashers? What does the rest of your kitchen look like?
We cannot absolutely prove [that they are wrong who say] that we have seen our best days. But so said all who came before us, and with just as much apparent reason. | -T. B. Macaulay (1800-1859)
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 4467
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:19 pm

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by BrandonBogle »

black jack wrote:Wow: two dishwashers? What does the rest of your kitchen look like?

The Dilbert site for the comic strip did an Engineering contest a couple years back. In the winning design, there were two dishwashers. The logic was that fancy dishes for party would be in a fancier cabinet away from the main shelves, and you could not "waste" space store regular-use dishes and cups. Instead, you simply alternate which dishwasher is "clean" and which is "dirty".
talzara
Posts: 4745
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:40 pm

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by talzara »

black jack wrote:Think about it: water that is hot enough to make a difference in terms of killing bacteria on your dishes would peel the skin off your hands. It is the soap, washing the grease off the dishes and carrying the bacteria away with it, that does the cleaning, not the water temperature. Same as washing your hands.
Dishwashers usually operate at 140 degrees Fahrenheit to increase the detergent efficacy. This is not a tolerable temperature for hand-washing. The better the detergent works, the less bacteria remains on the dishes. Thus, the elevated temperature does play a role in sanitizing dishes.

Water heaters are usually set at 120 degrees to reduce scalding risk and reduce standby losses. This is also why most dishwashers have an electric heating element -- they are designed to accept water that is colder than their desired operating temperature.
User avatar
frugaltype
Posts: 1952
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:07 am

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by frugaltype »

Rainier wrote: If you are single and can't fill the dishwasher....get more dishes. Or run it half full, or 1/4 full. Still way better than by hand.
Or upgrade your lifestyle and use dishes instead of eating directly out of the microwaveable containers :-)
User avatar
jeffyscott
Posts: 13484
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:12 am

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by jeffyscott »

tadamsmar wrote:Is that a Kitchenaid? We had that or a similar problem with our fairly new dishwasher. Our previous dishwasher was a lot more robust.

I need to learn how to unclog it if it happens again. I am now careful about scraping the food off with the new one. The technician advised us not to clean the dishes too much because the detergent needed some dirt to work on. Not sure what he meant, but pre-cleaned dishes may contribute to glass etching. Also some dishwasher manuals recommend that you fill the cups only 1/3 full if you have soft water to prevent glass etching.
We have a fairly new Kitchenaid and have had no problems. We do scrape most chucks off or just wipe plates off into garbage with the used napkin.

Due to our refusal to wash dishes before putting them in, our old dishwasher had to run on pots and pans all the time, to avoid having stuff redeposit. With the new one we can use normal cycle most of the time with no pre-rinsing, but it is supposed to automatically adjust the cycle times and water use based on how dirty the dishes are. For some items with cooked on food, we sometime just let them in the sink to soak for a while or over night before putting them in. But sometimes we just put them in as is and are often amazed at how well the dishwasher (and Finish Powerball detergent) does.

If the detergent has nothing else to attack you may get more glass etching as it attacks the minerals in the glass instead.

We had always used less detergent, due to having water softener. But now the only things that work well are things like Finish Powerball, so there is no ability to vary the amount. However, it may be that the glass etching issue was mainly related to phosphates.
likegarden
Posts: 3181
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:33 pm

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by likegarden »

Pre-rinsing dishes before washing them will result in real clean dishes, no food baked on, no germs leftover from sick guests. This is similar to washing clothes, where we (using soap to the lowest mark) rinse the clothing out one additional time to get out any soap smell and any left-over germs.
User avatar
dratkinson
Posts: 6116
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:23 pm
Location: Centennial CO

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by dratkinson »

I use to use the dishwasher and it ran ~once/week. But recently have gotten onto the kick of hand washing dishes before going to bed. It's 5-10 minutes of quiet time to listen to the radio (music, weather forecast), check grocery list, plan tomorrow,... and clean the kitchen before turning the lights out. It's as domesticated as I'll ever become.
d.r.a., not dr.a. | I'm a novice investor; you are forewarned.
nordsteve
Posts: 1104
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:23 am

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by nordsteve »

1. Redeposit of food on dishes is often a sign of lack of rinse agent.
2. I only rinse starchy items before loading my Kitchenaid, otherwise everything just goes in after scraping into the trash.
3. I fill both cups half full of Cascade powder. My water has a hardness of 5.2 grains.
travellight
Posts: 2892
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:52 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by travellight »

It takes minimal water to wash by hand if I do it promptly after using it before food gets stuck on. I believe this is more water efficient.
364
User avatar
frugaltype
Posts: 1952
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:07 am

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by frugaltype »

stevep001 wrote:1. Redeposit of food on dishes is often a sign of lack of rinse agent.
2. I only rinse starchy items before loading my Kitchenaid, otherwise everything just goes in after scraping into the trash.
3. I fill both cups half full of Cascade powder. My water has a hardness of 5.2 grains.
I never use a rinse agent. I forgot there was such a thing until I read this. Food isn't redeposited by my dishwasher.
protagonist
Posts: 9277
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 11:47 am

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by protagonist »

pablolo wrote:Hi . Other than convenience, does using a dishwasher use less water than doing dishes by hand?
I researched this a while ago online and was surprised to learn that an efficient dishwasher, for most people, uses less water and has a lower "carbon footprint" than handwashing. I think where this breaks down is when people so thoroughly rinse their dishes before putting them in the dishwasher that they are esentially doing both....a good dishwasher should not require pre-rinsing most items these days. Do a google search to confirm this.
protagonist
Posts: 9277
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 11:47 am

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by protagonist »

black jack wrote: Wow: two dishwashers? What does the rest of your kitchen look like?
I know somebody who has very little kitchen cabinet space and uses two dishwashers, alternating the "clean" one for storage and the "dirty" one for washing with each load. It's sort of ingenious. I have a feeling this might be a New York City thing.
Fallible
Posts: 8798
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:44 pm

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by Fallible »

sscritic wrote:For Toons, it depends on how far he is from the crick in them hills he lives in. If he wants to save a trip, he takes his clothes and washboard along with his dishes.
sscritic:

First I was glad you're back on the forum for the taxes you've taught me so much about. Now I'm glad your back for the humor. :D

Fallible

P.S. Have I mentioned I'm glad you're back? Am I OT? Yep.
"Yes, investing is simple. But it is not easy, for it requires discipline, patience, steadfastness, and that most uncommon of all gifts, common sense." ~Jack Bogle
User avatar
bru
Posts: 1013
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:32 pm

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by bru »

nordlead wrote:Not only does the dishwasher use less water compared to me washing by hand (dishwasher uses ~12 gallons of water at the most which is roughly 4 minutes of the water running), it saves me tons of time. Even if using the dishwasher used the same amount of water the time savings would be worth it for me.
I just installed an aerator that is 1 gpm so in 4 minutes I'll use 4 gallons not 12. Understood that unless I finish washing by hand in three minutes I'll still use more than the dishwasher, but not as much as I used to.

I rarely use our dishwasher. I know I should have ran it periodically which I used to do but since I stopped that I wonder if it even works anymore.

I keep telling my wife we should use it but I like to do the dishes by hand. Our water bill is already pretty low and since our dish usage is minimal I doubt we would save that much. As others mentioned I don't like the idea of it being filled with dirty dishes for four or five days before its used. Maybe I'll try it for a month and see if we do save anything.

As for bacteria, I'm pretty sure any bacteria remaining after hand washing has never caused us any issues. Isn't that how you build up immunity?
User avatar
deanbrew
Posts: 1500
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:05 pm
Location: The Keystone State

Re: dishwasher vs manual dish washing

Post by deanbrew »

protagonist wrote:
black jack wrote: Wow: two dishwashers? What does the rest of your kitchen look like?
I know somebody who has very little kitchen cabinet space and uses two dishwashers, alternating the "clean" one for storage and the "dirty" one for washing with each load. It's sort of ingenious. I have a feeling this might be a New York City thing.
Our kitchen is eight years old and pretty nice, but not anything you'd see on TV or in home magazines. We put one DW next to the main sink and the other in the island. It really is very convenient, as we don't need to hurry and unload the clean one before loading dirty dishes. And dishes don't stack up in the sink waiting for a spot in the DW. We do unload them, however, and don't move dishes from one to the other.
"The course of history shows that as the government grows, liberty decreases." Thomas Jefferson
Post Reply