Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

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caseynshan
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Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by caseynshan »

Having my kitchen remodeled.

My Contractor and his tile Sub have both said they are using 75 square feet of backsplash tile.

The height is a maximum of 20 inches
The lengths are 12 feet, 5 feet and 5 feet.

So assuming he needs 2 feet high and 1 extra foot on each end that is 50 square feet.

Why would they need an extra 25 square feet. I can't figure it out. He's pricing the backsplash materials based on 75 square feet.. (

I counted 80 square feet at my house last night and they returned 30 square feet today, but he claimed he had more in his truck, but didn't leave them at the house.

PS I suspect that he is padding his materials prices like this on all items..... So this is kind of proof... So please correct me if I'm wrong.

Casey
Last edited by caseynshan on Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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frugaltype
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Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by frugaltype »

What are the dimensions of a tile? He may have to cut a number of tiles to fit, thus "wasting" the reminder of each tile.

It is impossible for a height to be measured in square feet.
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FrugalInvestor
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Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by FrugalInvestor »

It's typical to add a 'waste factor' to most construction materials. 'Time is money' and it's generally more efficient to account for the normal amount of waste up-front to avoid additional costs of time and travel to pick up more materials. In the case of tile, carpet and other finish materials there's often the issue of production lots - colors may not match exactly from one lot to another so it's important to have enough from a single lot to finish the job, including waste.

Here is an article addressing waste factors for tile backsplash and reasons for them - some that I've mentioned plus others....

https://www.glasstilewarehouse.com/blog ... lass-tile/

All that said, the more experienced the contractor is the more likely it is that he or she will be able to estimate the job closely without running short. But just because there is extra material remaining doesn't mean you're being scammed. There shouldn't be all that much extra through.
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Professor Emeritus
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Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by Professor Emeritus »

You are of course also entitled to any leftover tile. Does the tile come in 25 Sq foot batches?
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caseynshan
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Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by caseynshan »

I corrected my post to be 2 feet tall (not 2 square feet)

It is the glass tile similar to this..

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Smart-Tiles- ... iAhB5LV-So
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caseynshan
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Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by caseynshan »

Professor Emeritus wrote:You are of course also entitled to any leftover tile. Does the tile come in 25 Sq foot batches?
Yes, He has budgeted for the materials and he is buying, and returning the extra.

So he is saying we are spending $750 (the tile is basically $10 a square foot)
I think he is actually only spending $500 on the tile.

It is an issue, because he is saying we are going over budget in several areas...

casey
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caseynshan
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Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by caseynshan »

FrugalInvestor wrote:It's typical to add a 'waste factor' to most construction materials. 'Time is money' and it's generally more efficient to account for the normal amount of waste up-front to avoid additional costs of time and travel to pick up more materials. In the case of tile, carpet and other finish materials there's often the issue of production lots - colors may not match exactly from one lot to another so it's important to have enough from a single lot to finish the job, including waste.

Here is an article addressing waste factors for tile backsplash and reasons for them - some that I've mentioned plus others....

https://www.glasstilewarehouse.com/blog ... lass-tile/

All that said, the more experienced the contractor is the more likely it is that he or she will be able to estimate the job closely without running short. But just because there is extra material remaining doesn't mean you're being scammed. There shouldn't be all that much extra through.

Yes, i agree.

That's why I rounded up to 2 feet high, even though it's only 20 inches high.. and I added an extra foot at the end of each.. well over 10% extra.

My concern is not about his ability to estimate, but him saying they are using 75 square feet and charging me for materials for 75 square feet, when in reality he only used 50 square feet.
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Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by FrugalInvestor »

caseynshan wrote:
FrugalInvestor wrote:It's typical to add a 'waste factor' to most construction materials. 'Time is money' and it's generally more efficient to account for the normal amount of waste up-front to avoid additional costs of time and travel to pick up more materials. In the case of tile, carpet and other finish materials there's often the issue of production lots - colors may not match exactly from one lot to another so it's important to have enough from a single lot to finish the job, including waste.

Here is an article addressing waste factors for tile backsplash and reasons for them - some that I've mentioned plus others....

https://www.glasstilewarehouse.com/blog ... lass-tile/

All that said, the more experienced the contractor is the more likely it is that he or she will be able to estimate the job closely without running short. But just because there is extra material remaining doesn't mean you're being scammed. There shouldn't be all that much extra through.

Yes, i agree.

That's why I rounded up to 2 feet high, even though it's only 20 inches high.. and I added an extra foot at the end of each.. well over 10% extra.

My concern is not about his ability to estimate, but him saying they are using 75 square feet and charging me for materials for 75 square feet, when in reality he only used 50 square feet.

I would present him with your calculations and in light of that ask him to justify his. If he doesn't have a good explanation my level of trust would be seriously eroded. At the least I'd be watching him like a hawk and I may consider finding a new contractor.
Have a plan, stay the course and simplify. Then ignore the noise!
lindisfarne
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Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by lindisfarne »

As someone else already said, if you are paying for the "wastage", you should get to keep it. All 75 ft sq.

I could imagine a situation where you truly had that much wastage. For example, if one wanted the top edge of the backsplash to be manufactured edges (rather than the edges the contractor cuts), which probably would make it look quite nice, there could be quite a bit of waste. But you're entitled to see (and keep) the waste. (Given the tile you say you're using, this doesn't seem to be a likely explanation.)

Did you get recommendations on this contractor? If s/he's highly recommended by people you trust, you might stop worrying.

It is for reasons like these that I do almost all the work in my house. Only major electrical or plumbing, or structural work gets hired out. I learn a lot about the condition of my house, I enjoy the work, I know the work is done fairly well (although top craftspeople would likely do it better), and I don't have to worry about cheating myself.

Hopefully your contractor is putting in the tiles correctly - many do not - although a backsplash doesn't get the wear & tear that a floor does. Glass tile is trickier to install.
ericinri
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Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by ericinri »

caseynshan wrote:
Professor Emeritus wrote:You are of course also entitled to any leftover tile. Does the tile come in 25 Sq foot batches?
Yes, He has budgeted for the materials and he is buying, and returning the extra.

So he is saying we are spending $750 (the tile is basically $10 a square foot)
I think he is actually only spending $500 on the tile.

It is an issue, because he is saying we are going over budget in several areas...

casey
Unless he told you he was going to sell you the tile at cost, he may be marking up the cost of the tile for his time and fronting of the costs. There are a lot of factors here, but in the end, having had tile down in the recent past, $750 for a glass tile backsplash installed doesn't seem unreasonable.
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Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by mptness »

ericinri wrote:
caseynshan wrote:
Professor Emeritus wrote:You are of course also entitled to any leftover tile. Does the tile come in 25 Sq foot batches?
Yes, He has budgeted for the materials and he is buying, and returning the extra.

So he is saying we are spending $750 (the tile is basically $10 a square foot)
I think he is actually only spending $500 on the tile.

It is an issue, because he is saying we are going over budget in several areas...

casey
Unless he told you he was going to sell you the tile at cost, he may be marking up the cost of the tile for his time and fronting of the costs. There are a lot of factors here, but in the end, having had tile down in the recent past, $750 for a glass tile backsplash installed doesn't seem unreasonable.
+1
If $750 (or some other number) is the quoted price for the total job, then this is the bottom line. No two contractors will arrive at the same bottom line in the same way (i.e. different metods of work, overhead, profit margins etc.). Unless he has agreed to let you supply the tile, IMO the number of tiles used is NOYB. What does your contract say?
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caseynshan
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Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by caseynshan »

# 1 - It's too late in the game to fire him.
# 2 - The contract says "Bid" it is not very clear.. and that was a mistake. (apparently a costly one, I hope not to make again)
He is trying to get me to pay extra for other materials where we "Went over"
# 3 - The bid for the materials on this one is $750, but If he is lying on this one, then I don't believe him when he says we 'Went Over' on others.

casey

He is a very good salesman, and we went with him despite limited references... That was my mistake.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by ResearchMed »

ericinri wrote:
caseynshan wrote:
Professor Emeritus wrote:You are of course also entitled to any leftover tile. Does the tile come in 25 Sq foot batches?
Yes, He has budgeted for the materials and he is buying, and returning the extra.

So he is saying we are spending $750 (the tile is basically $10 a square foot)
I think he is actually only spending $500 on the tile.

It is an issue, because he is saying we are going over budget in several areas...

casey
Unless he told you he was going to sell you the tile at cost, he may be marking up the cost of the tile for his time and fronting of the costs. There are a lot of factors here, but in the end, having had tile down in the recent past, $750 for a glass tile backsplash installed doesn't seem unreasonable.
Many (most?) contractors mark up just about everything (tile, sinks, hardware, etc.) and include this in their total price.
If one has a change order, the new price would probably include markup on the new materials.

However, SOME contractors (ours, for example) estimate the amount of time the job will take, and charge accordingly, and do NOT markup the supplies of various sorts.
As he put it, it doesn't cost him extra to put in one type of toilet than another. (If we were to choose a toilet that did take more time, such as a bidet toilet that requires extra plumbing, he'll tell us it/when we make an "extra cost" choice, and tell us "how much extra". Then we decide.)

This has caused a few annoyances at supply houses, when we want to check prices - without dragging the contractor with us.
He usually calls one particular person at each bathroom, tile, paint, etc., supplier, and authorizes them to give us *his* price.
This usually means we end up discussing costs in an office, so other customers don't overhear the quotes we are given, which are lower than what they'd see/hear.

He also takes great care with every tile cutting or such, which means he works more slowly. But the end result is done very well, and looks terrific.

You can ask a contractor if he can work this way, but if he doesn't usually, it might not work out even if he is willing to. He might not be accustomed to estimating in this way, leading to problems later.

Also, you would probably WANT at least a few extra tiles. In case one cracks or is otherwise damaged, it could be difficult/impossible to find something to match later.
If he does return the extras, keep a few of them just in case.

If you got a couple of bids, and you chose this contractor, and end up liking the outcome, you've done well.
(Or next time, you might consider getting another bid or two, so you feel comfortable that the total cost makes sense for what you've chosen, given the quality of both the materials and workmanship.)

RM
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caseynshan
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Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by caseynshan »

Yes, to be clear.

I made a mistake. I should not of hired this contractor. I failed to due my due diligence, and I failed to clarify contract 'bid'

I do NOT trust the contractor. (he constantly changes stories, and he's said he is going to meet us at Home Depot or something, he always shows up 30 mins late if not at all)

That said, he is trying to charge me around an extra thousand dollars, and I'm trying to make sure I'm right to make a big deal out of it and say NO. ("You may have been a little over on materials in this area, but you were way under in others, If I chose really expensive materials over the price discussed I would be more than willing to pay extra, but that is not the case.")
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Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by caseynshan »

contract language..

Remodel Quote & Project Contract

Broken out into 2 sections: (here is what is at the bottom)
Total Labor Price: $12,900.00
Total Material Price: $26,281.00
TOTAL BID PRICE: $40,681.00

the words 'fixed' or'estimate' are not in the contract.. only 'bid'

Like I said, if i chose extra expensive materials beyond budget I would be fine with that.. That is what he is claiming. However, I do not believe it. I believe he is padding the quantity to make it look like we are over budget on materials.

PS if it sounds expensive, it is an old house and we did move 2 walls, new floors etc..., not just a cabinet switch out.
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Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by mptness »

caseynshan wrote:contract language..

Remodel Quote & Project Contract

Broken out into 2 sections: (here is what is at the bottom)
Total Labor Price: $12,900.00
Total Material Price: $26,281.00
TOTAL BID PRICE: $40,681.00

the words 'fixed' or'estimate' are not in the contract.. only 'bid'

Like I said, if i chose extra expensive materials beyond budget I would be fine with that.. That is what he is claiming. However, I do not believe it. I believe he is padding the quantity to make it look like we are over budget on materials.

PS if it sounds expensive, it is an old house and we did move 2 walls, new floors etc..., not just a cabinet switch out.
Was the tile (or the cost per sq. ft. of the tile) specified in the contract? Did you select a different tile than the one specified? Was the tile you selected more expensive than the tile he/you budgeted for? Did you increase the area you originally were going to tile? How can he claim that you chose more expensive materials unless some of the answers above are "yes?"

It is important to have materials specified in contracts like this for both the customer and the contractor's benefit. If you are using tile that is more expensive than what was specified or included in the budget, then you have to pay more for it, just as you would pay less if you switched to a less expensive tile. You do not get to estimate the amount of materials he will need. That is his job. You may think he is padding his materials, but he may just be using his usual method for estimating (waste factor, mark up, etc.). If the work to be performed is properly specified in the contract, it is easy to determine if the increase is due to a change in the materials selected. If you have made no changes to the original specs, then how can he claim you "went over?"
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Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by englishgirl »

You are going to get nothing but higher blood pressure to fight over this at this point, or get yourself worked up that you're being scammed. In my experience, it's hard for contractors to estimate labor time. Materials is a bit easier, but they always want to buy extra in case of defects, having to cut pieces, etc.

Having said that, I don't think there's anything wrong in telling him you're getting stressed over the money. Ask him if there's any part of the project that is finished enough to be able to take back the overage of materials so you can use that credit to pay for whatever else he needs to get in. It may be that he truly went over on other materials. If he buys extra for each item in the project, that's a lot of inventory sitting around your house. He wants you to cover that. BUT, when it's done, you should be able to take back the overage to the store and get a credit for any unopened boxes. Keep extras that were in opened boxes for any touch up work. Or perhaps also keep one unopened box, depending on what he recommends.
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Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by Minot »

caseynshan wrote:Like I said, if i chose extra expensive materials beyond budget I would be fine with that.. That is what he is claiming. However, I do not believe it. I believe he is padding the quantity to make it look like we are over budget on materials.
What specific materials does he say cost more due to your choosing something higher cost than what his bid covered?

Also, did his original bid give a breakdown the various materials? If so, what was his estimate for the backsplash tiles?
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Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by Bradley »

If you believe he is over charging for materials simply ask him for the dated invoice/receipts.
You can sum up any active fund manager’s presentation at an investor conference in one sentence: “We’re doing well, all things considered.”
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Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by mptness »

Bradley wrote:If you believe he is over charging for materials simply ask him for the dated invoice/receipts.
IMO the OP has no right to see the contractors receipts. None of his business unless this was agreed upon from the start.
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Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by mptness »

englishgirl wrote:You are going to get nothing but higher blood pressure to fight over this at this point, or get yourself worked up that you're being scammed. In my experience, it's hard for contractors to estimate labor time. Materials is a bit easier, but they always want to buy extra in case of defects, having to cut pieces, etc.

Having said that, I don't think there's anything wrong in telling him you're getting stressed over the money. Ask him if there's any part of the project that is finished enough to be able to take back the overage of materials so you can use that credit to pay for whatever else he needs to get in. It may be that he truly went over on other materials. If he buys extra for each item in the project, that's a lot of inventory sitting around your house. He wants you to cover that. BUT, when it's done, you should be able to take back the overage to the store and get a credit for any unopened boxes. Keep extras that were in opened boxes for any touch up work. Or perhaps also keep one unopened box, depending on what he recommends.
I agree that there is nothing wrong with the OP telling him that he is stressed over the money. However, unless the contract includes a provision for the OP to provide the materials, then any credit for unused material belongs to the contractor and becomes part of his profit. The fact that the contractor may have over estimated the amount of tile doesn't necessarily mean the OP is being overcharged. The overage may be insurance that the contractor won't have to spend extra time after running out of material to obtain more, or insurance that he will make his desired profit/overhead.
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Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by Bradley »

caseynshan wrote: I counted 80 square feet at my house last night and they returned 30 square feet today, but he claimed he had more in his truck, but didn't leave them at the house.

PS I suspect that he is padding his materials prices like this on all items..... So this is kind of proof... So please correct me if I'm wrong.

Casey
If he is billing you for materials that were not present on the job site and he is on the up and up he should be more than happy to produce a dated invoice for the materials he charges you for. Who and how the materials were paid for normally dictates who receives credit for returns and is spelled out in the standard AIA documents. The contractor works for you.
You can sum up any active fund manager’s presentation at an investor conference in one sentence: “We’re doing well, all things considered.”
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Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by Mingus »

I've actually had to fire two contractors I've had work for me on my house, one for lying about material costs. He was providing me receipts, but the costs were not adding up. Like I was buying stuff, and he was keeping a portion for himself. And I really wasn't impressed with his work. So I had to redo a lot of it myself.

Another for not using materials I had specified, and doing crap work. I had to completely redo his work. In fact, I saw the guy drive by my house a couple weeks ago and I flipped him off.

Another one gave me a bid on residing my garage, and a new garage door. The garage door they installed was not the one in the bid. At the completion of the job, I paid the guys less money than we had agreed on due to the garage door being substituted for a less expensive model.

I try to do as much as I can myself, but sometimes its nice to just get it done and have someone else take care of the mess. Unfortunately in my first two examples, I had to do it all myself anyways. All I did was get gray hair.

Finding an honest contractor is next to impossible. Finding one who's not going to screw you over in someway is a little more doable.

Currently, I have a guy who I pay cash. I pay him an hourly wage, a very good hourly wage. Plus I cover half the cost of gas for him to drive to my house in his gas guzzling work van.

The arrangement is, I supply the materials, and he supplies the labor. He works slow, methodical, and the few jobs I've had him do for me have turned out really well.

This allows me to get exactly the materials I want. And not the budget materials the contractor wants to substitute with to make more money. Plus since he's working hourly, there is less incentive to rush and do shoddy work. On the other hand, there is more incentive to work slow..

My best advice is to try to find this arrangement. You start with simple small jobs that can't be messed up too much. See if your personalities click and if your intuition tells you that you can trust them. I don't know what it is, but a lot of really shady people are in the home remodel contracting business.
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caseynshan
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Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by caseynshan »

He has a specific cost for each item.
I was trying to simplify.. but here are the details.

Materials Cost for Floor Tile was bid at $750
He said the tile we picked was expensive and went over budget and he is asking for an extra $250 for it.
He is saying the same thing about a few other things.
However, I didn't really pay attention to how much was used.

Materials Cost for Backslash was $750
He is saying the backslash cost is $750
I don't believe him.
If he is lying on this one.. (where I'm paying attention) then I will not feel bad telling him to take a hike on the Floor tile. If he really did use 75 sq ft.. then I won't mind paying the extra 250 for the floor etc...
Receipts are tricky.. He is buying a bunch and taking it back in bits.. so hard to proove that he doesn't buy 100 square feet.. return 25 square feet one day, and then return 25 square feet the next day.... He just has to show me the Purchase and the one Return.. and he just pockets $250 for the second return.

I am buying materials myself from here on out.
lindisfarne
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Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by lindisfarne »

I'm a little confused - you say he bid the tiles cost at $750. He says it cost him $750. Where's the problem? As others have said, contractors do mark up supplies. I guess it all depends on the contract language - is the contract asserting that the $750 is his actual cost & forbids any markup on his part? Or is this the cost to YOU? Earlier it sounded like you said he was asking for more money beyond what he bid - in your post above, it sounds like that is not the case. :confused

Earlier you gave a big bid figure of something like 26,000 for all materials. Again - the contract language is what matters. If he claimed he could do the job for that amount & after that was agreed, there were no changes on your part, then that's what was agreed to. I doubt the contract was that tight, though - when you're opening up walls, etc., you have no idea what you're going to find & thus contractors almost always have some clause to this effect.

It may be the case that neither you nor the contractor made sure the contract was written well. (I also would be surprised if this contractor kept track of every receipt). You might have to deal with this in small claims court if you can't work out some compromise with him.

I've got to say - your explanation here is very confusing. If both you & the contractor are not very good at making sure the details are clear, the situation you are in is what results.

You said:
"I do NOT trust the contractor. (he constantly changes stories, and he's said he is going to meet us at Home Depot or something, he always shows up 30 mins late if not at all)"

Believe me, the vast majority of non-craftsman level people in the home remodeling business do this - especially showing up late. That's probably partially why they work for themselves - they don't have the personal nature to show up on time. (I've got to say, I feel like your story has changed in this thread - or to be a little more positive - you haven't been really clear on the details & that's led to that feeling.)

=============
Have you called your state office that oversees such people? Is he licensed and bonded - does your state require such people to be licensed & bonded.

Whether or not he can ask you for extra depends on how the contract was written. If he's asking for extra, he has to document that they are justifiable charges.

You certainly can prove how much tile is in your backsplash right now. If he's saying he used more than 10% more, he needs to provide documentation. But - it could be that his price bid (the 26,000) was for the materials he knew he would need and he used all those materials. However, unanticipated materials became necessary. In that case, it may be legitimate for him to charge for the additional materials even if he did mark up on the anticipated materials.

The state office may be very helpful if you are in a state where people are willing to pay enough taxes that the office is able to follow up on individual citizen's problems & if the laws are such that the consumer is protected. Start by calling the office & find out what they can do. They might have recommendations about your legal rights & options.

I had a problem where a plumbing contractor said he was licensed & bonded & even gave me a "license number". I did not however verify that it was valid & it turned out it wasn't. However, in that state, people doing plumbing had to be licensed & bonded & thus, he was not able to play the games he wanted. He also got into trouble for working without a license (2 fines, plus if he's caught doing plumbing without a license again, he will face additional, much larger, licenses - correction - that should be "fines"). I had to waste time & money hiring a plumber to be sure the work was done correctly - a few things needed to be fixed. The state said this could be taken off the amount he bid for the work.

It's probably not the case your tile contractor needed to be licensed, but that doesn't mean you don't have legal rights. It all depends on how well your state laws protect the individual consumer.
Last edited by lindisfarne on Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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caseynshan
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Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by caseynshan »

lindisfarne wrote: You said:
"I do NOT trust the contractor. (he constantly changes stories, and he's said he is going to meet us at Home Depot or something, he always shows up 30 mins late if not at all)"

Believe me, the vast majority of non-craftsman level people in the home remodeling business do this - especially showing up late. That's probably partially why they work for themselves - they don't have the personal nature to show up on time. (I've got to say, I feel like your story has changed in this thread - or to be a little more positive - you haven't been really clear on the details & that's led to that feeling.)
Don't want to get off subject, but his claims are often patently ridiculous.
He has left our house at the same time as us.. said he was headed to the cabinet store.. we were there 15 minutes later... He didn't show up for an hour.. and claimed it was traffic...
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caseynshan
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Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by caseynshan »

lindisfarne wrote:I'm a little confused - you say he bid the tiles cost at $750. He says it cost him $750. Where's the problem? As others have said, contractors do mark up supplies. I guess it all depends on the contract language - is the contract asserting that the $750 is his actual cost & forbids any markup on his part? Or is this the cost to YOU? Earlier it sounded like you said he was asking for more money beyond what he bid - in your post above, it sounds like that is not the case. :confused
You are right... I believe he is padding all his Material costs.. I wouldn't care about the backsplash, but he is trying to get extra money out of me for the floor tile.
Because of that, I paid attention to the backsplash count/price much closer.

I'm trying to figure out if he is lying about the backsplash, because that will make me feel more confident in confronting him. (I hate confrontation) and not paying him the extra $250 for the floor tile.

(Yes, I should be doing this analysis on the floor tile, but it's more confusing as I don't have the price per square foot and harder to measure because it went down 2 weeks ago.)

casey
mptness
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Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by mptness »

lindisfarne wrote:It may be the case that neither you nor the contractor made sure the contract was written well. (I also would be surprised if this contractor kept track of every receipt). You might have to deal with this in small claims court if you can't work out some compromise with him.

I've got to say - your explanation here is very confusing. If both you & the contractor are not very good at making sure the details are clear, the situation you are in is what results.
+1
I am still unclear about the specs (or lack of specs) in your contract. Were any of the materials specified? Was this work to be done strictly on a time and materials basis? There are many different types of contracts for this type of work ranging anywhere from a firm contract price to "I'll supply the materials, and pay you for the labor." Each type has advantages and disadvantages. If you had no reason to trust your contractor, then you should have made sure you were comfortable with the contract. It is much better to use contractors that that you trust or that have been recommended to you by others who you do trust. In this case it is possible to get the work done with a handshake, and I have done that many times. I would try to work out a compromise if possible, and next time get it in writing.
Saving$
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:33 pm

Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by Saving$ »

mptness wrote:
lindisfarne wrote:It may be the case that neither you nor the contractor made sure the contract was written well. (I also would be surprised if this contractor kept track of every receipt). You might have to deal with this in small claims court if you can't work out some compromise with him.

I've got to say - your explanation here is very confusing. If both you & the contractor are not very good at making sure the details are clear, the situation you are in is what results.
+1
I am still unclear about the specs (or lack of specs) in your contract. Were any of the materials specified? Was this work to be done strictly on a time and materials basis? There are many different types of contracts for this type of work ranging anywhere from a firm contract price to "I'll supply the materials, and pay you for the labor." Each type has advantages and disadvantages. If you had no reason to trust your contractor, then you should have made sure you were comfortable with the contract. It is much better to use contractors that that you trust or that have been recommended to you by others who you do trust. In this case it is possible to get the work done with a handshake, and I have done that many times. I would try to work out a compromise if possible, and next time get it in writing.
+1
Cost of materials for a backsplash as you have described:
- Cost of tile
- Cost of backerboard, if tile is going on backerboard
- Cost of adhesive
- Cost of grout
- Misc materials cost (saw blades, etc) but probably only about $20 in this case, with this type of tile
Topic Author
caseynshan
Posts: 231
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:11 pm

Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by caseynshan »

FYI.. update.

I was able to corner the tile guy away from the general contractor and he reluctantly (when i pulled out the measuring tape) admitted I had the correct measurements, which proved useful when the General Contractor claimed at the end of the job I was way over on materials.

Thanks to bogleheads who are smart and levelheaded..
casey
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czeckers
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Re: Backsplash Measurement - Is my contractor scamming me.

Post by czeckers »

For tile jobs, it's typical to allow for an extra 10% with respect to square footage to allow for cutting of tiles, broken tiles, etc. However, more complicated patterns that require more cutting such as diagonal pattern require an allowance of 20%. Since tile comes in boxes, you round up to the nearest full box. When in doubt, you get a little extra from the same lot so the colors will match. However, an extra 50% is difficult to justify.

-K
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