Frugal vs. do it yourself

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Spades
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Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by Spades »

Howdy All,

I was just wanting to try and see what ideas y'all had that were frugal in long run that focused on having other people doing the work. The idea popped in my head while I was reading The Millionaire Mind. For example, I hire a plumber to fix my water heater and all other plumbing stuff. In my reasoning, the plumber will do a much better job and cost less in the long run than doing it myself because he'll use better parts and has better knowledge.

Although, I do almost all of my minor car work because I do have the ability to do it.

So what ideas do y'all have?

:sharebeer
Last edited by Spades on Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by LadyGeek »

This thread is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum (DIY).
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by mike143 »

I do all the work I am comfortable with, which comes with successful and failed projects that took multiple attempts along the way. Even if you decide to hire someone else you can educate yourself to a level will you will not get ripped off and have a good understanding of what needs to be done.
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JoMoney
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by JoMoney »

Paying someone else to do yard work is one of the most enjoyable things I spend money on. I hate yard work.
I've seen plumbers work replacing water heaters and such, the things a pro can do in an hour would take me all day (and I still may not get it right).
I'll fix my own computer, if my car's "check engine" comes on I'll read it with the OBD2 and may consider replacing a part that's easily accessible. Most of the time i'll pay someone else to change the oil. I don't have a good place to do it, and by the time I pay for a filter, disposal, etc.. it's pretty close to what some oil change specialty places charge :sharebeer
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by stoptothink »

mike143 wrote:I do all the work I am comfortable with, which comes with successful and failed projects that took multiple attempts along the way. Even if you decide to hire someone else you can educate yourself to a level will you will not get ripped off and have a good understanding of what needs to be done.
Definitely in the same boat. Basic auto and home repairs, yard work, even washing my car...I get a lot of personal satisfaction out of learning and doing those things on my own. I could never think about paying someone to mow my lawn or going to a car wash. I am not handy at all, but I pretty much refuse to pay anybody to do something I am capable of doing myself even if technically my time is worth more than what I would be spending to have a "professional" handle it.
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by Spades »

stoptothink wrote: I am not handy at all, but I pretty much refuse to pay anybody to do something I am capable of doing myself even if technically my time is worth more than what I would be spending to have a "professional" handle it.

That's what I'm thinking, it's finding the unskilled chores like cleaning the house, washing the car, or mowing the lawn where we can save money by doing them ourselves, but fixing the washer and dryer, or the HVAC probably needs someone with knowledge.

I saw a quote yesterday I hadn't given too much thought into before: Penny wise, Pound foolish.
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by Spades »

JoMoney wrote:Paying someone else to do yard work is one of the most enjoyable things I spend money on. I hate yard work.
I've seen plumbers work replacing water heaters and such, the things a pro can do in an hour would take me all day (and I still may not get it right).
I'll fix my own computer, if my car's "check engine" comes on I'll read it with the OBD2 and may consider replacing a part that's easily accessible. Most of the time i'll pay someone else to change the oil. I don't have a good place to do it, and by the time I pay for a filter, disposal, etc.. it's pretty close to what some oil change specialty places charge :sharebeer
I do have to admit that I do hire a guy to mow my lawn. I find it to be a great way of buying more free time, but I don't think of it as saving money...
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by mike143 »

I would mow my lawn but its part of the HOA fee. It is so small I would probably use a manual reel lawn mower if I did it myself.
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by sschullo »

Spades wrote:
JoMoney wrote:Paying someone else to do yard work is one of the most enjoyable things I spend money on. I hate yard work.
I've seen plumbers work replacing water heaters and such, the things a pro can do in an hour would take me all day (and I still may not get it right).
I'll fix my own computer, if my car's "check engine" comes on I'll read it with the OBD2 and may consider replacing a part that's easily accessible. Most of the time i'll pay someone else to change the oil. I don't have a good place to do it, and by the time I pay for a filter, disposal, etc.. it's pretty close to what some oil change specialty places charge :sharebeer
I do have to admit that I do hire a guy to mow my lawn. I find it to be a great way of buying more free time, but I don't think of it as saving money...
Yea, and we hate cleaning the house, so we have it done by paying some one else, for over 30 years. Your house is an investment and needs to be taken care of. Frugal living is paying your self first and spending the rest, but to afford that we had to cut back spending using the ideas in both millionaire mind and millionaire next door.
We also saved time by getting somebody else to do many things so we could return to school/classes and increase our education and job skills. The only task we do ourself is manage our money because to hire someone is expensive by the fee schedule that takes a little bit of your money year after year. With a mechanic and plumber, you pay them a one time fee and its done.
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by German Expat »

It depends a bit how you value free time. We are both very busy with work and therefore outsource some work. I had problems doing lawn work with a lot of travel a couple years ago (grass got really tall) and started to outsource it. Never looked back. We get our house cleaned biweekly.
I do repair our appliances but this is more a hobby because I like to see how they work. I also do change the snow tires myself. In general I like to do work that does not cost too much time but has a high payback per hour (e.g. getting a washer fixed will cost you at least 100$+ just for somebody to show up) and is not too difficult. I stay away from things that I can pay somebody else a relative low amount of money per hour.
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by likegarden »

I need exercise, so I do yardwork. My doctor said that walking, bending, digging and lifting is just what my body needs, plus I breathe in fresh air, get some sunshine and do not get exposed to bad air and germs in a gym.
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by neurosphere »

I have done a LOT of projects where I had little to no experience, and paying someone else was almost definitely a better "deal". However, I chose to do them because 1) I thought it could be a learning experience which may one day be helpful in the future 2) I considered the project "fun" so derived some entertainment value 3) the risk was low, in that property damage might result, but not loss of limb or life...ok, maybe loss of limb because some of the projects involved learning to use circular saws! 3) Had the resources to pay for someone to fix my mistakes 4) was not working on a deadline, so could take the time I needed to do it right 4) had the internet as a resource and reference.

The tricky part of any potential DIY project is that you don't know what you don't know, and it's hard to gauge what might be critical or what part of a project has the potential for disaster. I.e. installing a new ceiling fan is not brain surgery, but on the other hand you could kill yourself in the process without a few key precautions. :)
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by Spades »

likegarden wrote:I need exercise, so I do yardwork. My doctor said that walking, bending, digging and lifting is just what my body needs, plus I breathe in fresh air, get some sunshine and do not get exposed to bad air and germs in a gym.
Hmm, health and fitness benefits. I need to think about those too, but I love my gym too much......
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by Tom_T »

I've done a few basic things: change faucets, replace the toilet, change an electrical outlet or light switch, install a simple light fixture. I've also used a circular saw to shorten doors. That's about as much as I feel comfortable doing. I avoid anything that involves complicated electrical or plumbing work, and I don't touch anything that involves gas lines, because I don't want to get into a situation that I can't get out of. A friend of a friend was installing a deck a couple of weeks ago, and while he was digging, he broke a gas line. Had to get everyone out of the house and call for help.

I do try to pay attention to what repairmen do. We had someone clean the filter in our dishwasher ( a 10-year-old machine, and it wasn't obvious how to get to the filter.) Once I watched him do it, I thought "that was simple, all I need is five minutes and a screwdriver", and now I do it myself whenever I see that the dishwasher isn't cleaning as well as it should.
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by wander »

I do most everything by myself from fixing car to fixing faucet, install tiles, plumbing ... Mostly because I am confident that I can do it the way I want.
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by sport »

It depends on my willingness, need, and ability to do the job. :twisted:
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by Woodshark »

wander wrote:I do most everything by myself from fixing car to fixing faucet, install tiles, plumbing ... Mostly because I am confident that I can do it the way I want.
+1

I do everything from my our yard work to building out and finishing our downstairs. Most things take me longer than a professional but that's OK. It allows me to learn something new and the savings of do-it-yourself are quite large over a multi-project year. I have free time so that helps. If you a 60 hour a week high earning professional then I would suggest hiring it out so you have time for yourself and your family.
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by scouter »

I always been amused by my friends who pay someone to clean their house and pay someone to mow their yard, so they'll have time to go to the gym, where they pay to exercise.

(We also pay to exercise at a gym, but we do our own housework and yard work and just chalk it up to more exercise.)
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by pennstater2005 »

I just replaced a hot water heater that took 4 hours and did all new plumbing in my kitchen remodel which took 6 hours yesterday and it's still leaking….just a little though. The whole time I'm doing it I'm muttering terrible things under my breath and wishing I would've hired someone but when it's over I'm glad I did it. I'll fix that leak. Couldn't take more than what….half an hour?
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by JoMoney »

scouter wrote:I always been amused by my friends who pay someone to clean their house and pay someone to mow their yard, so they'll have time to go to the gym, where they pay to exercise.

(We also pay to exercise at a gym, but we do our own housework and yard work and just chalk it up to more exercise.)
There's always a risk/reward efficient/behavioral trade off. For some people the gym has a social benefit that exercising alone doesn't have.
A professional lawn care person can justify having a riding mower a lot better then I could. The care and maintenance of a more traditional mower is more then I care to do.
I find cleaning the house stress-relief, where as wrestling with the lawn care stress-causing.
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by thomase »

I always try to do things first myself. This is where the internet is revolutionary, I can get information about fixing practically anything pretty quickly. If I can't figure it out or it requires skills I don't have then I would hire someone. Some things I don't like doing because they're dirty jobs but do anyway to save money, like plumbing, removing and resetting a toilet, replacing a hot water heater, replacing a garbage disposer. Electrical work, I've done stuff like running new wires for ceiling fan installs. But anything more than that electrical wise I would probably hire an electrician. I also do all my own car maintenance and repairs. Yard work is sort of fun since I get to be outside, for the one year cost of a gardener, I got a pretty nice Honda mower and Echo trimmer. I like tools, so fixing something is occasionally an excuse to get another new tool. Even with the cost of the tool I find repairing myself is cheaper than hiring someone. Would like to learn welding some day and extend my skills. Some things I did not do, laying a stamped concrete patio, as it's important that looks good and I don't have good concrete finishing skills. Another thing I won't do is paint the exterior of my house, I hate painting, and also hate heights.
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by AAA »

Here is my take on this question. If the job is large and complicated, then no question to have the pro do it. If small and uncomplicated, then the pro will do it quickly so it won't cost that much. Of course, a lot depends on your stage of life. Earlier on I may have attempted more things.

Funny story - in the past, I would replace the washer in leaking faucets (before I got the washer-less type). No problem to do this with my sinks. But one day I noticed the tub faucet was dripping. I removed the handle and looked inside to see what size wrench I'd need to remove the stem. I couldn't put any measuring device inside so judged by eye. I drove 20 minutes to the hardware store and the guy there said they usually rent a set of wrenches. Not wanting to have to drive back to return them, I went ahead and bought the one I thought was appropriate. Of course it was the wrong size. So I went back to the store (2nd trip) to rent the set. Turns out none of them was the right size. The 3rd trip was to return the set to the store. I then called the plumber.

Another time, I bought three outside lights for my house. I was spending a lot of time figuring how I would mount them, given the siding is at an angle, etc. I ended up calling an electrician. Boom, boom, boom it was done faster than I could have imagined and as a consequence he didn't charge that much. Also, I should mention that it was raining a bit while he was doing it - something that surely would have led me to delay the project. I have a feeling that if I had done it myself, it would have involved multiple trips to a hardware store to try and find appropriate items to complete the job.
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by dekecarver »

I do what I can and actually started paying myself the going rate (cash) if I had to fork it over to the next guy. You would be amazed at how much you can earn doing part-time work on your own terms :D The key is actually putting the cash in your pocket.
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by Clearly_Irrational »

It depends on how much free time you have. When I was younger I was cash poor and time rich so I did nearly everything myself. Nowadays I have more money and a lot less time so if something is going to take more than an hour I hire someone else to do it.
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by leonard »

scouter wrote:I always been amused by my friends who pay someone to clean their house and pay someone to mow their yard, so they'll have time to go to the gym, where they pay to exercise.

(We also pay to exercise at a gym, but we do our own housework and yard work and just chalk it up to more exercise.)
I'm amused when people have actual athletic goals that pushing a lawn mower doesn't further. What are they thinking?
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by papiper »

I replaced rear drum brakes today. I've done pads before - pretty easy job. Rear drums are a job for real mechanics. Took 5 hours and two Youtube videos.... Parts $40 versus $400 estimate. But this one would have been better to pay someone!
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

I have trees on my property - I will trim the lower branches, what I will not do is strap on a harness, shimmy 40 feet up the tree wielding a 14 or 16 inch gas chainsaw - the penalties are severe and unforgiving, the benefits of saving a few hundred dollars is not worth it.
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

papiper wrote:I replaced rear drum brakes today. I've done pads before - pretty easy job. Rear drums are a job for real mechanics. Took 5 hours and two Youtube videos.... Parts $40 versus $400 estimate. But this one would have been better to pay someone!
Who stepped on the pedal to bleed the brakes? Nothing worse than spongy brakes.
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by fandango »

I do anything that I think that I can do correctly.

- Most routine car maintenance
- All painting
- Most minor electrical

I have learned, the hard way, that you have to honestly know your own capabilities. In some cases, it is more cost effective to just let a professional do the job.
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by simpsonlang »

I try to do everything myself and have really challenged myself to go the extra mile for my personal things. Vehicles brakes, electrical wiring, blowing insulation in the attic, sealing HVAC ductwork in the attic, ball joints and control arm replacement, strut replacement, Whole House dehumidifier install (this was a massive unit), swapping out my HVAC temp control unit with a more expensive unit that controls the whole house dehumidifier and external vent valve, installing a UV bulb into my HVAC (required drilling two holes right below the coil -tricky!), replacing a side door, installing an electrical sub panel, Brake fluid flushing, oil changes, Manual J HVAC sizing, and too many other things to mention.

Things I didn't do and paid for:
Solar Hot water heater, Car alignment after I installed the struts/control arms, HVAC maintenance, Car AC repair, Front door replacement (very nice door mind you), front house window replacement (if it were a window in the back I would of done it myself), transmission flush, and front engine coolant seals (I would of done this myself but it was literally one week before vacation and it was a long trip so I wasn't going to chance it).
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by eharri3 »

I am getting more and more into DIY since we bought a bigger home. The place is well maintained but 100 years old. It has no major problems but obviously requires more upkeep than a newer home. YOUTUBE is my friend.

So far I learned to replace mortar joints, re-seal leaky gutters, do bathroom grout, and replace a toilet flapper among other things. I am young and strapping and my weekends are free so I'm starting with the easy stuff and learning as I go. I am not handy enough to tackle anything really complicated but I learn the the basics whenever I can.

It has been my experience that it's not always easy to find trust-worthy handy-men who charge a reasonable rate and attack work on your home the same way they would they would on their own. I may make some mistakes when I try new things but I will fix them, and once I get the hang of it I will do it to the highest standard. I will research the hell out of it so I know the best materials to use and the proper, shortcut-free way to do it. Because I have to live with the repair, I don't just take some other sucker's money and forget about him as soon as I cash the check.

I have seen 'pros' do some fairly low standard work that you wouldn't even realize isn't up to par if you haven't researched enough to tell how it should be done. They do it to save time and money and think you won't be smart enough to notice, and often won't offer you the better way unless you know to ask. What's worse, they charge you as if they did a first rate job.

I know my limits and have no problem hiring someone if the situation warrants it. I'm not gonna go all crazy and try to do HVAC repair or any serious electrical or plumbing work. But I would rather do the simple work myself, save money, and know there was no skimping or half-assing it.
Last edited by eharri3 on Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by Tycoon »

I'll do just about anything myself if time permits. It's about learning, saving money, knowing it was done right, and ultimately feeling the joy of success. Yes, I'm frugal, but knowing that I can build a computer, rebuild a transmission, trim an oak tree, sod my own yard, write computer programs in a few languages, successfully invest my family's money, replace my own water heater, rewire my house, fix the toilet, and a few other things makes me feel good. I like the sense of accomplishment as much as I do saving money. Often times work just doesn't provide the instant gratification that digging a fence post hole does. :beer
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by tim1999 »

I don't do any of the work on my house besides cutting the lawn and minor landscaping. I'd rather spend the time doing things I enjoy more.
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by thomase »

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
papiper wrote:I replaced rear drum brakes today. I've done pads before - pretty easy job. Rear drums are a job for real mechanics. Took 5 hours and two Youtube videos.... Parts $40 versus $400 estimate. But this one would have been better to pay someone!
Who stepped on the pedal to bleed the brakes? Nothing worse than spongy brakes.
You don't necessarily need to bleed the brakes when replacing pads or shoes unless you had to crack open the brake lines for some reason. But it is a good practice to flush the brake system every few years, which greatly reduces eliminates the chance of leaking seals. I use a Motiv brand pressure bleeder and it works well, it sort of looks like a modified garden sprayer.
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by simpsonlang »

I use a Motiv brand pressure bleeder and it works well, it sort of looks like a modified garden sprayer.
+1

I use it on my two vehicles to flush them.
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by aquifer »

I do the work I am capable of doing, then hire a professional as needed. A few years ago when I remodeled the kitchen I took out and replaced the sink but I had someone do the countertops. I am working on my bathrooms (slowly), and I plan to do all the demolition work but will hire someone to install the new stuff because I know very little about that. I am replacing the siding on my garage myself although it will probably spill into next summer. Saved big $ there and it's something I can do if I take my time and do one side at a time. I do all of my own house and yard work.
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by jf89 »

Spades wrote: I do have to admit that I do hire a guy to mow my lawn. I find it to be a great way of buying more free time, but I don't think of it as saving money...
I'm not sure if that's a normal way of thinking I'm just hearing, but I love how that sounds. "buying more free time"

So you take that out of your Entertainment budget instead of Bills, and I can sleep much better at night (as long as I haven't increased my Entertainment budget to fit lawn work in).

Having said that, yard work is a nice distraction every couple of weeks and I actually look forward to the first nice day of Spring to get outside and work.

As for everything else: the internet has helped so much in spreading knowledge that anything that just requires a little trick or some cursory research should probably be DIY if it's less expensive. I refuse to do safety jobs on my own, though... a car's brakes are relatively easy to do, but also fairly easy to screw up if you don't know what you're doing.
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by davebo »

I actually feel a little guilty when I think about how little I actually do vs. hiring it out. Just off the top of my head:

-All car repairs, including oil changes.
-Cleaning of the house once a month.
-Cleaning the gutters.
-Appliance repair (washing machine just recently)
-Sealing the driveway
-Cleanup, delivery, and installation of mulch.
-Cleaning carpets

Pretty much the only thing I'll do consistently is mowing the lawn, trimmer, and cleaning up leaves and stuff. I do feel like I should do certain things, but I have 3 little kids and I'd prefer to just focus on them during my time away from work. Plus, I have a side-business that I spend a decent amount of time (internet-based) so I don't want to spend much time between my day job and night job doing work.

Plus, it doesn't help that I'm not very handy when it comes to things (probably because no practice). I just know it would take me a lot longer and be more frustrating than having someone else do it.
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by 6miths »

I do most home and yard work by myself unless it is a particularly big job or one that needs to be done quickly. I get alot of satisfaction from doing the jobs and it is less about saving money although that certainly is a bonus. So framing, plumbing, electrical, and the like are jobs I do. I find painting has become a bit of a drag and have hired that out now and then recently. Then main difference between me and the pros is speed and that is partly because they have a crew and on occasion I get help from experienced friends. As far as fit and finish, my job is often better as it is harder and harder to find folks who really take pride in what they are doing or who haven't fallen victim to the need for speed to actually make a living at it. I was lucky that in younger days I spent time in house restoration which certainly has served well.
'It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so!' Mark Twain
lindisfarne
Posts: 411
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by lindisfarne »

neurosphere wrote:I have done a LOT of projects where I had little to no experience, and paying someone else was almost definitely a better "deal". However, I chose to do them because 1) I thought it could be a learning experience which may one day be helpful in the future 2) I considered the project "fun" so derived some entertainment value 3) the risk was low, in that property damage might result, but not loss of limb or life...ok, maybe loss of limb because some of the projects involved learning to use circular saws! 3) Had the resources to pay for someone to fix my mistakes 4) was not working on a deadline, so could take the time I needed to do it right 4) had the internet as a resource and reference.

The tricky part of any potential DIY project is that you don't know what you don't know, and it's hard to gauge what might be critical or what part of a project has the potential for disaster. I.e. installing a new ceiling fan is not brain surgery, but on the other hand you could kill yourself in the process without a few key precautions. :)
Agreed.

I also do many things on my own because the increased knowledge will allow me to do even more complicated things on my own down the road.

In terms of your house: if you do the work yourself, you get to know the house - know what maintenance needs to be done down the road. If I do it myself, I don't have to pay taxes on the money I'd earn that I'd end up paying someone else to do the work. I also am confident enough in my own ability (at least in terms of the things I am willing to take on) that I'd do it as well as all but the best. If I hired someone, I'd have to do a lot of research to figure out what to ask in the hiring process, and what to look for when inspecting the work of the person I hired. All in all, hiring someone does not save me much, but then again, I enjoy much of the work & it's good experience & good exercise. It's really satisfying to see the completed project. (By the way, if you ever run into a tiling "pro" who plans to use pre-mixed thinset or grout, run far away from that person.)

I'm not into paying for someone to "clean" my house. What they do is surface cleaning - which I can do easily. I don't like the idea of a stranger roaming through my house. I just do a little every day, and am not neurotic about everything being perfect.

I also learned I can do most computer work on my own. I've disassembled & reassembled a number of computers to replace parts once the warranty ran out. Usually warranties that cover the cost of parts are well worth the money - I also learned by watching & talking to Dell technicians who replaced parts under warranty.
lindisfarne
Posts: 411
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:55 am

Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by lindisfarne »

Tom_T wrote:A friend of a friend was installing a deck a couple of weeks ago, and while he was digging, he broke a gas line. Had to get everyone out of the house and call for help..
Did the friend call 811 and get the underground utilities marked before digging? Never dig more than about 1 foot without calling. This applies to removing hedges & trees, too; roots can wrap about gas pipes.

www.call811.com
Building a deck? Planting a tree? Installing a mailbox? 811 is the new number you should call before you begin any digging project.

A new, federally-mandated national "Call Before You Dig" number, 811 was created to help protect you from unintentionally hitting underground utility lines while working on digging projects. People digging often make risky assumptions about whether or not they should get their utility lines marked due to concerns about project delays, costs and previous calls about other projects. These assumptions can be life-threatening.

Every digging job requires a call – even small projects like planting trees or shrubs. If you hit an underground utility line while digging, you can harm yourself or those around you, disrupt service to an entire neighborhood and potentially be responsible for fines and repair costs.
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Watty
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Re: Frugal vs. do it yourself

Post by Watty »

One summer job that I had while I was in school was working at a nursing home.

All the residents were elderly except for one guy that was in his 30’s.

He tried to put on his own roof to save money but he had fallen off the roof and was now a quadriplegic.

I do lots of DIY jobs around the house but when it comes to doing anything that is risky; I remember that guy and hire someone that has the skills, experience, and right tools to do it safely. I also verify their insurance just in case an injury does happen.
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