trip to iran, suggestions?

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities
Post Reply
Topic Author
arandomdude84
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:57 am

trip to iran, suggestions?

Post by arandomdude84 »

Hi -

I'm planning an upcoming trip to Iran (potentially in September) and was wondering if any other bogleheads had visited before and had any recommendations on particular attractions or cities that I should be sure not to miss.

Initially, I was thinking 2 weeks would be sufficient, but the more I look into it, the more I think I should spend at least 3 weeks. Any thoughts on length of trip?

I'm considering visiting the following cities: Tehran, Abyaneh, Yazd, Shiraz, Esfahan, Khorramabad, Kermanshah, Qom, and Hamedan -- obviously the length of the trip will affect the number of cities I can travel to, but at a minimum I'd like to see at least Tehran, Shiraz, and Esfahan.

FWIW, I taught myself how to read/write Farsi as a hobby over the last few months - I'm of course nowhere near the proficiency of a native speaker, but I think I should be fine to travel, get directions, buy food, read signs, etc when needed.

General tips or experiences are also appreciated, as it will be my first time there.

Thanks!
Valuethinker
Posts: 49027
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: trip to iran, suggestions?

Post by Valuethinker »

arandomdude84 wrote:Hi -

I'm planning an upcoming trip to Iran (potentially in September) and was wondering if any other bogleheads had visited before and had any recommendations on particular attractions or cities that I should be sure not to miss.

Initially, I was thinking 2 weeks would be sufficient, but the more I look into it, the more I think I should spend at least 3 weeks. Any thoughts on length of trip?

I'm considering visiting the following cities: Tehran, Abyaneh, Yazd, Shiraz, Esfahan, Khorramabad, Kermanshah, Qom, and Hamedan -- obviously the length of the trip will affect the number of cities I can travel to, but at a minimum I'd like to see at least Tehran, Shiraz, and Esfahan.

FWIW, I taught myself how to read/write Farsi as a hobby over the last few months - I'm of course nowhere near the proficiency of a native speaker, but I think I should be fine to travel, get directions, buy food, read signs, etc when needed.

General tips or experiences are also appreciated, as it will be my first time there.

Thanks!
OK the below is partly written as if you have never visited the Middle East, and as if you are far less experienced a traveller than you probably are. So apologies-- the tone is not mean to be condescending. Nor is it definitive-- it's in the 'due caution' category. I shudder to think, now, at the risks we took backpacking in Eastern Turkey (I even took a photo of the Iranian border-- I could easily have been imprisoned and/or lost my camera).

I am envious. I have visited Libya and Syria, both before the recent civil wars, and it's likely I shall never go again in my lifetime. A few precious days-- much of what we saw in Syria is now destroyed or looted. Eastern Turkey I did visit, but it was not wise (in the pre internet days, the news of the civil war with the Kurds did not circulate), and I may never go again.

There is a city which is core to the Zoroastrian faith, and Zoroastrianism is important to the early evolution of Christianity. Not sure which city but it's worth a side trip (on the Cox & Kings website, Iran tours, it's an extra option). Also there are the (sp?) Yedizis -- not sure if there is a key site.

Try to see Persepolis because the local mullahs were talking about desecrating it, it being 'un Islamic'. There's an internal tension (Ali Ansari-- St. Andrews University-- is very good on modern Iran) between the historic preservationists in Iran (nationalist, but not fundamentalist Islamics) and the religious crazies, who are too much like the Wahaabis in my view-- if it is pre 622 AD, we pull it down. Fortunately most Iranians are too proud of their history to so far give the destructionists the upper hand.

Rory Stewart wrote about walking across Iran-- he is a great writer. So did Jason Elliott (who wrote a very good book about visiting Afghanistan-- another place I shall now probably never get to, with Iraq). And you of course have read Mariam Satrapani (sp?) Persepolis?

Always remember this is a state locked in an intelligence war with the Israelis and the USA-- which has been running for 3 decades. A war in which people get killed, scientists blown up by bombs attached to their cars at stop lights, lethal computer viruses are unleashed on uranium centrifuges, etc. You are a citizen of a nation which is at covert war with the Republic of Iran (is that the official title). And for over 2000 years, Rome, then Byzantium and now the US (the modern Rome) and its allies have engaged in overt and covert war with the Persian world for domination of the Middle and Near East. Therefore you are automatically suspect-- and individual Iranians are of course very friendly and most people go and never have any trouble-- but always remember that background. 'Remember Heraclius' should be your unofficial motto ;-).

Be incredibly cautious about what you photograph and what you take interest in. It's quite central to 'the Paranoid Tendency in Iranian Politics' (Richard Hofstader ;-)) that Iran's history is steered by MI6 and the CIA (given the Mossadeq coup, it happens to be *correct*, at least historically)-- any Brit/ American who speaks Farsi is automatically suspect (probably one of the few countries where a Canadian is at similar risk). You sound savvy and I do not wish to talk down to you, but for 3rd party readers I will reemphasise the point DO NOT talk about politics, even if the Iranian raises the subject-- they could easily be an agent provocateur. In Syria our tour bus driver was a captain in the secret police (how many tour bus drivers do you know who are embraced by cops in the middle of intersections?)-- you will be watched at least as tightly.

Pasdaran (Revolutionary Guard) is there, you don't want to seem interested, you want to do the invisible, if you can. Ordinary Iranians loathe Pasdaran, but they are very careful of it (Canadian- Iranian photographer, woman, 'fell' and 'hurt her head' in police custody, and died).

Don't ever admit you have been to Israel or even admit you know any Israelis ;-). Under no circumstances take a USB key (;-) unless you buy a blank one (it's possible to reconstruct what was on a memory key even if files deleted apparently). I would imagine border security might search through your camera memory cards. If your profession is scientist or computer engineer, I think it's an even call whether you go at all. Assume your hotel room is bugged (it may not be, but just assume) and at some point they will search your room (probably do it as a matter of course in room cleaning). This is like visiting Albania or Soviet Baltic republics in the good old days.

Usual advice about respecting religious constants (shoes, bare arms etc.).

Avoid hiking alone-- the Iranians use hostages as political counters, as they did with those 3 young Americans (the French, typically, were much more shrewd about getting their people back-- the French don't rollover and play diplomatic niceties, they scream, good and loud, the Americans wound up trading a senior Iranian-backed Iraqi).

My concern has always been that I'd go, and it would be the week the Israelis finally let fly. But life is not forever, and both sides are waiting to see how it works under the new leader (which is really the same cast of characters, the deck reshuffled, of course).
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 4467
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:19 pm

Re: trip to iran, suggestions?

Post by BrandonBogle »

I would add that it is a much better experience flying into Shiraz instead of Tehran. Much enter atmosphere an if you have a connecting flight to further into Iran, you just keep in mind that Tehran actually had two airports, about 30 miles apart through city traffic. One for International flights, one for Domestic.

And based on your citizenship, you may have a hard time getting a visa to visit as well as difficulty in taking funds there, as you cannot simply walk up to an ATM with a US-based card and do a withdrawal. I would definitely do a Persepolis trip, you would miss a piece of history otherwise.

Apple and Samsung smartphones are prevalent there. You will need to make sure the SIM slot is unlocked to get a local SIM. Remember that the Internet there is highly monitored and data is metered.
Topic Author
arandomdude84
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:57 am

Re: trip to iran, suggestions?

Post by arandomdude84 »

Valuethinker wrote:
arandomdude84 wrote:Hi -

I'm planning an upcoming trip to Iran (potentially in September) and was wondering if any other bogleheads had visited before and had any recommendations on particular attractions or cities that I should be sure not to miss.

Initially, I was thinking 2 weeks would be sufficient, but the more I look into it, the more I think I should spend at least 3 weeks. Any thoughts on length of trip?

I'm considering visiting the following cities: Tehran, Abyaneh, Yazd, Shiraz, Esfahan, Khorramabad, Kermanshah, Qom, and Hamedan -- obviously the length of the trip will affect the number of cities I can travel to, but at a minimum I'd like to see at least Tehran, Shiraz, and Esfahan.

FWIW, I taught myself how to read/write Farsi as a hobby over the last few months - I'm of course nowhere near the proficiency of a native speaker, but I think I should be fine to travel, get directions, buy food, read signs, etc when needed.

General tips or experiences are also appreciated, as it will be my first time there.

Thanks!
OK the below is partly written as if you have never visited the Middle East, and as if you are far less experienced a traveller than you probably are. So apologies-- the tone is not mean to be condescending. Nor is it definitive-- it's in the 'due caution' category. I shudder to think, now, at the risks we took backpacking in Eastern Turkey (I even took a photo of the Iranian border-- I could easily have been imprisoned and/or lost my camera).
I haven't been to the Middle East, so your advice is appreciated.
Valuethinker wrote: I am envious. I have visited Libya and Syria, both before the recent civil wars, and it's likely I shall never go again in my lifetime. A few precious days-- much of what we saw in Syria is now destroyed or looted. Eastern Turkey I did visit, but it was not wise (in the pre internet days, the news of the civil war with the Kurds did not circulate), and I may never go again.

There is a city which is core to the Zoroastrian faith, and Zoroastrianism is important to the early evolution of Christianity. Not sure which city but it's worth a side trip (on the Cox & Kings website, Iran tours, it's an extra option). Also there are the (sp?) Yedizis -- not sure if there is a key site.

Try to see Persepolis because the local mullahs were talking about desecrating it, it being 'un Islamic'. There's an internal tension (Ali Ansari-- St. Andrews University-- is very good on modern Iran) between the historic preservationists in Iran (nationalist, but not fundamentalist Islamics) and the religious crazies, who are too much like the Wahaabis in my view-- if it is pre 622 AD, we pull it down. Fortunately most Iranians are too proud of their history to so far give the destructionists the upper hand.
OK, I'll look into the city you mentioned above and see if it is possible to get to Persepolis in my itinerary.
Valuethinker wrote: Rory Stewart wrote about walking across Iran-- he is a great writer. So did Jason Elliott (who wrote a very good book about visiting Afghanistan-- another place I shall now probably never get to, with Iraq). And you of course have read Mariam Satrapani (sp?) Persepolis?
Nope, but I will check those books out.
Valuethinker wrote: Always remember this is a state locked in an intelligence war with the Israelis and the USA-- which has been running for 3 decades. A war in which people get killed, scientists blown up by bombs attached to their cars at stop lights, lethal computer viruses are unleashed on uranium centrifuges, etc. You are a citizen of a nation which is at covert war with the Republic of Iran (is that the official title).
Well, FWIW I am a multi-national and do not plan to use my US passport when visiting.
Valuethinker wrote: And for over 2000 years, Rome, then Byzantium and now the US (the modern Rome) and its allies have engaged in overt and covert war with the Persian world for domination of the Middle and Near East. Therefore you are automatically suspect-- and individual Iranians are of course very friendly and most people go and never have any trouble-- but always remember that background. 'Remember Heraclius' should be your unofficial motto ;-).

Be incredibly cautious about what you photograph and what you take interest in. It's quite central to 'the Paranoid Tendency in Iranian Politics' (Richard Hofstader ;-)) that Iran's history is steered by MI6 and the CIA (given the Mossadeq coup, it happens to be *correct*, at least historically)-- any Brit/ American who speaks Farsi is automatically suspect (probably one of the few countries where a Canadian is at similar risk). You sound savvy and I do not wish to talk down to you, but for 3rd party readers I will reemphasise the point DO NOT talk about politics, even if the Iranian raises the subject-- they could easily be an agent provocateur. In Syria our tour bus driver was a captain in the secret police (how many tour bus drivers do you know who are embraced by cops in the middle of intersections?)-- you will be watched at least as tightly.

Pasdaran (Revolutionary Guard) is there, you don't want to seem interested, you want to do the invisible, if you can. Ordinary Iranians loathe Pasdaran, but they are very careful of it (Canadian- Iranian photographer, woman, 'fell' and 'hurt her head' in police custody, and died).

Don't ever admit you have been to Israel or even admit you know any Israelis ;-). Under no circumstances take a USB key (;-) unless you buy a blank one (it's possible to reconstruct what was on a memory key even if files deleted apparently). I would imagine border security might search through your camera memory cards. If your profession is scientist or computer engineer, I think it's an even call whether you go at all. Assume your hotel room is bugged (it may not be, but just assume) and at some point they will search your room (probably do it as a matter of course in room cleaning). This is like visiting Albania or Soviet Baltic republics in the good old days.
I am a software engineer, but I'm not sure why that would really matter? I highly, highly, highly doubt my hotel room there will be bugged, but I suppose it is possible.
Valuethinker wrote: Usual advice about respecting religious constants (shoes, bare arms etc.).

Avoid hiking alone-- the Iranians use hostages as political counters, as they did with those 3 young Americans (the French, typically, were much more shrewd about getting their people back-- the French don't rollover and play diplomatic niceties, they scream, good and loud, the Americans wound up trading a senior Iranian-backed Iraqi).

My concern has always been that I'd go, and it would be the week the Israelis finally let fly. But life is not forever, and both sides are waiting to see how it works under the new leader (which is really the same cast of characters, the deck reshuffled, of course).
[/quote]

Not planning on doing much hiking -- mostly trying to visit historic sites, hang out in the cities, eat lots of good food, smoke hookah, learn more Farsi, and make some new friends.
SHB
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:28 am

Re: trip to iran, suggestions?

Post by SHB »

Since you haven’t been to the middle east before, might I suggest visiting another country first as a defacto "warm up" before Iran? While I have been to the middle east several times I have not been to Iran so my advice specifically about Iran comes from two friend who have been.

The middle east to westerners is an odd duck. There are obviously many cultural differences that get in the way of an easy understanding of day to day life as a visitor even in the most "mild" of countries (which is one of the great reasons to go) like say Lebanon or Oman, even then Saudi Arabia is a very different story to those countries. If Saudi Arabia is difficult to understand Iran is basically another planet, almost lien if you are not ready for it. Off the top of my head I can think of at least 5 things a westerner unfamiliar with an extremely Islamist country can do in the first day (maybe first 2 hours) that would offend someone.

You are also kidding yourself if you don’t think there’s a chance your room could/will be bugged. Assuming you are white with eupean decent.

Anyways, my advice (and that’s all it is) is to start small and work your way up. If you really want to jump in at least go to Saudi Arabia first then Iran (just don’t tell anyone in Iran you liked Saudi Arabia). Iran can be dangerous and cultural offenses easy.

I'm not trying to be condesending but Iran is a very big and potential dangerous decision for someone who has never been to the middle east.
User avatar
Sylvester the Investor
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 7:07 pm

Re: trip to iran, suggestions?

Post by Sylvester the Investor »

I have been to Iran for work. I was there for a month or so a couple of years ago.

(I am in a rush so I'll write this quickly)

Thoughts:
- The traffic is unbelievably awful. This is the number one most dangerous terrible thing you will run into constantly. India / China / Latin America are better than Iran at driving. Iranians have no lane discipline whatsoever. 4 lanes = 7 cars. To cross the road you must step out in front of the traffic and it stops. It is terrifying. You'll need to do it first with a local before you'll get the hang of it.
- Tehran is safe. I was wandering around late at night, no problem.
- The average toilet is a ceramic hole in the floor that kind of flushes and no toilet paper. I would get nervous if I needed to go and there was no western bathroom nearby. It could be pretty embarassing if you didn't know how to use it and there was no1 and no2 all over the place and on your hand. (Hope you understand what I'm saying.
- Stay at the Simorgh Hotel in downtown Tehran. It's right on Val-e-asr Avenue which is wonderful and cosmopolitan. The heart of the city.
- Bring a lots of US$ and swap it out for Rials. I did it at the hotel (see line above). ATMs don't work so you have to do this. Don't plan on any wire transfers or other means of getting money.
- People are incredibly friendly. They love foreigners. You're like a celebrity. You will be invited to many people's houses - my advice - go. You'll see the real Iran this way.
- Everyone hates the government.
- Some women won't shake hands. Some do. What you need to do is keep your hand ready and watch if the girl starts lifting her's then lift your's. This way you won't be left hanging.
- Learn the numbers so you can read prices. I couldn't.
- Bring a paper map.
- Despite what other people wrote, the Iranian security forces will actually treat you nicer if they realise you are a foreigner. Twice they passed me through security without checking me and immediately took my bags off the scanner. They're less likely to bother you. They are very conscious of their international image and want you to have a good impression.
- If you look a bit Iranian however expect a thorough body search. And I mean thorough. They do it to everyone though.
- Guys can't wear shorts. Girls must wear a scarf and a long top that covers the hips. They do this poorly, deliberately.
- You can hang out with girls alone. The locals won't stone you.

That's enough for now.

(Sorry if I offended
chaz
Posts: 13604
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:44 pm

Re: trip to iran, suggestions?

Post by chaz »

Before you go, read "Persepolis: The Story of a Childhood" by Satrapi.
Chaz | | “Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons." Woody Allen | | http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
Valuethinker
Posts: 49027
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: trip to iran, suggestions?

Post by Valuethinker »

Sylvester the Investor wrote:I have been to Iran for work. I was there for a month or so a couple of years ago.

(I am in a rush so I'll write this quickly)

Thoughts:
- The traffic is unbelievably awful. This is the number one most dangerous terrible thing you will run into constantly. India / China / Latin America are better than Iran at driving. Iranians have no lane discipline whatsoever. 4 lanes = 7 cars. To cross the road you must step out in front of the traffic and it stops. It is terrifying. You'll need to do it first with a local before you'll get the hang of it.
- Tehran is safe. I was wandering around late at night, no problem.
- The average toilet is a ceramic hole in the floor that kind of flushes and no toilet paper. I would get nervous if I needed to go and there was no western bathroom nearby. It could be pretty embarassing if you didn't know how to use it and there was no1 and no2 all over the place and on your hand. (Hope you understand what I'm saying.
- Stay at the Simorgh Hotel in downtown Tehran. It's right on Val-e-asr Avenue which is wonderful and cosmopolitan. The heart of the city.
- Bring a lots of US$ and swap it out for Rials. I did it at the hotel (see line above). ATMs don't work so you have to do this. Don't plan on any wire transfers or other means of getting money.
- People are incredibly friendly. They love foreigners. You're like a celebrity. You will be invited to many people's houses - my advice - go. You'll see the real Iran this way.
- Everyone hates the government.
- Some women won't shake hands. Some do. What you need to do is keep your hand ready and watch if the girl starts lifting her's then lift your's. This way you won't be left hanging.
- Learn the numbers so you can read prices. I couldn't.
- Bring a paper map.
- Despite what other people wrote, the Iranian security forces will actually treat you nicer if they realise you are a foreigner. Twice they passed me through security without checking me and immediately took my bags off the scanner. They're less likely to bother you. They are very conscious of their international image and want you to have a good impression.
- If you look a bit Iranian however expect a thorough body search. And I mean thorough. They do it to everyone though.
- Guys can't wear shorts. Girls must wear a scarf and a long top that covers the hips. They do this poorly, deliberately.
- You can hang out with girls alone. The locals won't stone you.

That's enough for now.

(Sorry if I offended
Thanks for correcting some of my misapprehensions.

To the OP

Generally in the Middle East I would *not* wear shorts. The local men do not, so you should not. AFAIK short sleeves are OK but I don't know about visiting mosques? Remember you have to take off your shoes to visit a mosque (you won't be allowed to forget).

Yes I have heard the locals are incredibly friendly. Just don't abuse the privilege (they can hate the government, you should blandly hope for peace between our two great countries (I mean Great Britain and Iran ;-))-- you don't know who is a police agent, at the end of the day. Remember in 1953 MI6 persuaded the CIA to overthrow the democratically elected Mossadeq government (because it dared to nationalize British Petroleum's oil operations -- Mr Bond, I presume?) and install a ruthless and brutal dictatorship under the Shah. And there was Stuxnet, and a whole host of assassinations of nuclear scientists. Iranians may have excessive paranoia, but they also have justification.

Yes the crime is low, and the traffic accidents horrible- -crossing the road in the Middle East is best done with a local.

Taking desanitizer is a good thing, and also own supply of toilet paper.

Be careful about cameras (what photos you take) and, given your profession (software engineer), I would avoid taking anything that resembles computer equipment if you can (eg if you take a USB key, take a completely new, clean one). Remember Stuxnet. There have been a series of internet based attacks on Iranian government computers etc. They have real paranoia.

Persepolis is a must see. The book (graphic novel) by Satrapi is a must read, especially if you know little about the country.
Last edited by Valuethinker on Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Valuethinker
Posts: 49027
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: trip to iran, suggestions?

Post by Valuethinker »

SHB wrote:. If Saudi Arabia is difficult to understand Iran is basically another planet, almost lien if you are not ready for it. Off the top of my head I can think of at least 5 things a westerner unfamiliar with an extremely Islamist country can do in the first day (maybe first 2 hours) that would offend someone.

You are also kidding yourself if you don’t think there’s a chance your room could/will be bugged. Assuming you are white with eupean decent.

Anyways, my advice (and that’s all it is) is to start small and work your way up. If you really want to jump in at least go to Saudi Arabia first then Iran (just don’t tell anyone in Iran you liked Saudi Arabia). Iran can be dangerous and cultural offenses easy.

I'm not trying to be condesending but Iran is a very big and potential dangerous decision for someone who has never been to the middle east.
I agree with you that the Iranian police will check out any western traveller. It's like visiting the old Baltic Republics in soviet days-- there was a whole floor in the Hotel in Riga devoted to listening stations to monitor phonecalls of guests. As a matter of course, room staff will go through your things.

In truth, I suspect Saudi is far more alien than Iran to visit, and a lot less interesting.

Iran is this modernized country, highest female literacy rate in the Middle East. These people are capable of building nuclear bombs ;-). Yes the government is pretty nasty, but it's a bit like an old Soviet Bloc country- the government is not representative of the people and what they truly feel, the Revolutionary Guard (Pasdaran) are basically thugs, the mullahs are like the old Soviet apparatchiks-- kept in power by brute force (most Iranians are Islamic to a degree, but most are not as fanatical as their government). Iranians are also very smart, and this is a 2000+ year old civilization-- highly sophisticated with a rich cultural history.

By contrast Saudi Arabia is not really post tribal-- this was basically a rural desert dwelling country before 1970. Women are kept totally segregated, not even allowed to drive. Foreigners do a lot of the highly technical work and live pretty much isolated. The society really has no public areas where men and women mix. The cities are very new-- mostly built since the oil boom of the 70s. The population of Saudi has risen c. 4 x since the early 70s, a very young population with huge economic problems. The religious theocracy is taken very seriously eg the religious police (whereas in Iran people have parties with bootleg booze, and watch foreign satellite TV).

I'd choose Iran (far more to see, by reputation a far warmer reception from the locals) over Saudi, Riyadh is meant to be a really ugly place (imagine Houston with none of the cultural amenities or diversity). Jeddah is better (compared to Riyadh, though). You can't go to Mecca or Medina (and the Saudis have pulled down a lot of the historic buildings in both to build more modern hotels for pilgrims).

All of the Gulf States are difficult. Maybe Oman the least. But Dubai yes there is the beach and the expats drinking in the hotels, but you have an accident with a local or get into trouble, they'll lock you up. Abu Dhabi, Kuwait, Qatar are supposed to be worse: even less to do, more restrictive.

Lebanon is highly westernized. But there have been armed battles in Beirut between the pro Iranian, pro Syrian Hizbollah and the government-- the government is outgunned. Hizbollah troops are aiding the Assad regime in putting down the revolution. The Israelis have hit supply convoys going to Hizbollah, and both sides are spoiling for a rematch. Syrian refugees have flooded into Lebanon. Things are very tense. I would not go to Lebanon right now, with Syria cooking next door.

Your risk with Iran is that war breaks out whilst you are there-- the Israelis finally go after the nuclear installations (and therefore they would have American consent). Or something flares up over Iraq or Syria with the US and western allies. But right now the new president is making encouraging noises, there are signs the regime is being less oppressive. If you keep your nose clean, a tourist should be alright.
Valuethinker
Posts: 49027
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: trip to iran, suggestions?

Post by Valuethinker »

It's also worth noting the Iran economy is close to meltdown, due to bad government management and also the embargo and sanctions over its nuclear programme.

Therefore be sympathetic to your hosts, they are pretty desperate. Hospitality runs deep in the Middle East, but if there is a significant cost involved, make sure you make some kind of compensatory gift (people can be insulted if you try to pay, but most people will accept a gift). Someone drives you somewhere, shows you something, offer to pay for gas or a meal, etc. Insist that you pay your expenses. These people are trying to maintain dignity and hospitality under very bad circumstances-- raging inflation, falling real incomes, high unemployment. As a foreigner with access to US dollars, you are unimaginably rich.
Valuethinker
Posts: 49027
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: trip to iran, suggestions?

Post by Valuethinker »

arandomdude84 wrote:
Don't ever admit you have been to Israel or even admit you know any Israelis ;-). Under no circumstances take a USB key (;-) unless you buy a blank one (it's possible to reconstruct what was on a memory key even if files deleted apparently). I would imagine border security might search through your camera memory cards. If your profession is scientist or computer engineer, I think it's an even call whether you go at all. Assume your hotel room is bugged (it may not be, but just assume) and at some point they will search your room (probably do it as a matter of course in room cleaning). This is like visiting Albania or Soviet Baltic republics in the good old days.
I am a software engineer, but I'm not sure why that would really matter? I highly, highly, highly doubt my hotel room there will be bugged, but I suppose it is possible.
[/quote]

I apologize if I am overstating this. I do not mean to put you off travel, but to make you aware of the issues.

But someone (presumably the Israelis, with CIA help) managed to download a hugely damaging virus (worm?) called Stuxnet into the Iranian uranium centrifuges, causing huge damage and setting back the Iranian enrichment programme by months-- probably 18 months to 2 years.

Stuxnet was the world's (first?) attack on embedded devices. It has since been adapted and used to attack medical machinery (holding a hospital hostage) and other industrial machinery. Somehow, someone introduced a USB key to a computer that was connected to those centrifuges, and the damage spread from there.

It really was the first shot in a whole new kind of war, where nations attack each other covertly. Most embedded devices are insufficiently secure against such an attack-- eg the systems that control the US power grid.

There have been other cyber related attacks on Iranian government and nuclear computers.

Also in the Middle East there is this exaggerated view of the capabilities of the CIA, MI6 and Mossad. People credit the US with powers it just doesn't have. When things go wrong for the US, then *that* is credited as part of a deeper, more devious plan (ie to look weak, and thus be even stronger).

You can see the paranoia re more attacks. If the subject of your profession does not come up, and you have no computer equipment with you, you should be fine.

But they *will* check your room, and probably bug you at some points. I am sure they do that to pretty much any tourist from a western power.

As I said with our tour group in Syria, at the end of the trip we found out our bus driver was a captain in the secret police. The secret polices in these places do not lack for manpower.
epictetus
Posts: 796
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:43 pm

Re: trip to iran, suggestions?

Post by epictetus »

Rick Steves had an episode where he was in Iran. I think it would definitely be worth watching as you think about your trip.
Focus on what you can control
Topic Author
arandomdude84
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:57 am

Re: trip to iran, suggestions?

Post by arandomdude84 »

Thanks everyone for the replies. As I said initially, I can read, write, and speak Farsi and I have (perfectly legal) access to several non-US passports all of which are for countries with embassies in Tehran. I know this is not a magic bullet so to speak, but generally traveling to countries with a passport from a country that maintains diplomatic relations seems like a good idea.

I have done quite a bit of research about the country, traveling there, talked with people who have been, and talked with people who grew up there. I don't feel particularly unsafe going. I also feel confident that I will be able to read prices, maps, street signs, and so on. I know many signs are also in English, too.

I know that there are risks to going there, but I definitely do feel like taking a trip to Saudi Arabia will be more of a cultural shock than Iran, not to mention I can't read/write/speak Arabic. I almost think that Iran is actually a decent warm up for traveling to other parts of the middle east, but I'll let you know when I get back.

For sure I will be careful when talking about politics, but I doubt the average Iranian and I would disagree over much. I am familiar with the Middle Eastern brand of hospitality and definitely intend on paying my own expenses and bringing gifts when invited to people's homes.

Thanks to all for the time spent writing many of these lengthy replies. I am not 100% decided on going, yet, but I put the probability of me going at over 80% at this point.
Valuethinker
Posts: 49027
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: trip to iran, suggestions?

Post by Valuethinker »

arandomdude84 wrote:Thanks everyone for the replies. As I said initially, I can read, write, and speak Farsi and I have (perfectly legal) access to several non-US passports all of which are for countries with embassies in Tehran. I know this is not a magic bullet so to speak, but generally traveling to countries with a passport from a country that maintains diplomatic relations seems like a good idea.

I have done quite a bit of research about the country, traveling there, talked with people who have been, and talked with people who grew up there. I don't feel particularly unsafe going. I also feel confident that I will be able to read prices, maps, street signs, and so on. I know many signs are also in English, too.

I know that there are risks to going there, but I definitely do feel like taking a trip to Saudi Arabia will be more of a cultural shock than Iran, not to mention I can't read/write/speak Arabic. I almost think that Iran is actually a decent warm up for traveling to other parts of the middle east, but I'll let you know when I get back.

For sure I will be careful when talking about politics, but I doubt the average Iranian and I would disagree over much. I am familiar with the Middle Eastern brand of hospitality and definitely intend on paying my own expenses and bringing gifts when invited to people's homes.

Thanks to all for the time spent writing many of these lengthy replies. I am not 100% decided on going, yet, but I put the probability of me going at over 80% at this point.
If you can go, I would. It is by all accounts an amazing country-- the history, the monuments, the landscape, the people. Things are politically probably as good as they have been in many years, with a more conciliatory government.

My caution was just about not making trouble for yourself-- I agree that if you have diplomatic relations and a legit passport, there should not be too many issues as long as you keep your nose clean. Like most police states, it's the locals who get it from heavy handed security, not the visiting foreigners.

Yes Saudi Arabia is a shock, and it's not an appealing one, unless you want to go trekking in the desert. There's not a whole lot that you can see (if you are a non muslim) and the place is in another century socio-culturally, and the cities are by all accounts totally modern and ugly. That goes to varying degrees for the other Gulf States. Oman by contrast I have heard some pretty good things (medieval castles, fantastic scenery, ocean life, and as someone said 'even the shopkeepers and taxi drivers are Omanis'). Lebanon I just wouldn't given what is going on in Syria. Egypt you should be fine doing the usual archaeological stuff in the south, but I would probably avoid Cairo and Alexandria right now (Middle Egypt has been a tourist no go zone for years, due to random shootings). Yemen, Libya, Syria are just right out, of course. Tunisia I cannot speak to but it is much more modern. I haven't really gotten a handle on how safe/ unsafe Algeria is, but that last attack on the oil production facility cost a lot of foreign and Algerian workers their lives. Morocco is great, but you get a really high degree of hassle from commerce hungry locals who know tourists.
Jeff Albertson
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:11 pm
Location: Springfield

Re: trip to iran, suggestions?

Post by Jeff Albertson »

The State Department offers a "Smart Traveler" service. It has some useful features no matter where you travel.
http://travel.state.gov/travel/tips/reg ... _4789.html
Sanbalto
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:59 pm

Re: trip to iran, suggestions?

Post by Sanbalto »

You have gotten great advice here. A few things I would add:

1. Understand the concept of "ta'arof". Here is a wikipedia link on it, but I'm sure there are better websites: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taarof. It will be an element of many interactions you have, whether you notice it or not.

Not sure if this would happen to a westerner, but dont be surprised if a taxi cab driver who drops you off at first refuses to accept payment from you. He may even refuse payment 2 or 3 times. It may genuinely seem like he wants to give you a free ride. That is not the case. Keep insisting to pay until he accepts. I assure you, he would not let you walk away from the cab without paying. It is just part of the culutural etiquette. This may occur at shops and restaurants too.

Expect to have tea, fruit, bread and cheese often. If you visit someone's home, this will almost surely be offered to you. It would be rude to not drink their tea. If you are ever providing for a guest, they may initially insist they don't want whatever it is you are provided (ex tea, pay for meal, etc). That is ta'arof. They actually do want tea or would like you to pay for the meal. You just need to keep pressing. It can be tricky.

2. If you enter someone's home, take your shoes off.

3. Be careful trying to take items such as rugs out of the country. Understand the custom rules on both sides (leaving Iran and entering the US). We were given trouble once for trying to take fake relics we bought at Persipolis. I recall a family member having her purse handle (a 1/4 inch padded handle) cut open with a razor blade by customs to ensure she wasn't smuggling anything out.

4. Eat the pistachios, fresh baked breads, walnuts from street vendors, fresh fruit, and as much kabob as possible. Visit the bazaar (preferably with a local, so you don't get lost or ripped off). Expect to haggle heavily at the bazaar. Don't buy anything without walking off first.

5. Don't be shocked to see paintings on the side of buildings that are insulting to Americans and Israelis. You may see images of burning US flags, and depictions of the US or Israel being evil. That is not how most Iranians feel about you.

You will also see many images of soldiers. These are usually young men, that died in the long and bloody Iran-Iraq War, who are being honored.

I'm sure there much more. It is a wonderful country and you will enjoy your trip.
Last edited by Sanbalto on Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
hoopy
Posts: 108
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:26 pm

Re: trip to iran, suggestions?

Post by hoopy »

I backpacked through much of Iran for a few weeks, back in 2009. I stayed in relatively low-budget places, some of whose clientele were comprised largely of other western backpackers, and some of which were for locals.

I found pretty much all of Iran safe. I met a few women at the hostels and hotels who were also backpacking by themselves, and they largely reported feeling quite safe too.

The biggest takeaway from my visit was that you have to differentiate between the government and the people. Sure the government might be an international pariah, but person-to-person interactions with Iranis were mostly warm and friendly.

Your itinerary looks good. In addition to the three cities you list as must-sees (Tehran, Shiraz, and Esfahan), I would definitely try and add Yazd.

One of the most enjoyable things I did in Tehran was visit the Bank of Iran's vault, where they keep all of the Shah's treasures, his throne, etc. It was a veritable Alladin's cave. Plates with piles of jewels on them, jewel encrusted stuff, that kind of thing. The highlight was a large globe, depicting the earth, made of solid gold, with encrusted emeralds for the ocean and rubies for the land. It was only open twice a week when I was there, on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and for only two hours per day.
User avatar
wilpat
Posts: 534
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:30 pm

Re: trip to iran, suggestions?

Post by wilpat »

I would think twice about going this year.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013 ... chief?lite
Contrary to the belief of many, profit is not a four letter word!
likegarden
Posts: 3181
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:33 pm

Re: trip to iran, suggestions?

Post by likegarden »

I did not go to Iran. Though in 1962 I spent 3 months in Turkey and ate food from street vendors, drank water from the hotel faucet and contracted hepatitis which set me back 1/2 year in college then. Be careful what you eat and drink, only bottled water.
User avatar
parsi1
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 8:03 am

Re: trip to iran, suggestions?

Post by parsi1 »

Sylvester the Investor wrote:I have been to Iran for work. I was there for a month or so a couple of years ago.

(I am in a rush so I'll write this quickly)

Thoughts:
- The traffic is unbelievably awful. This is the number one most dangerous terrible thing you will run into constantly. India / China / Latin America are better than Iran at driving. Iranians have no lane discipline whatsoever. 4 lanes = 7 cars. To cross the road you must step out in front of the traffic and it stops. It is terrifying. You'll need to do it first with a local before you'll get the hang of it.
- Tehran is safe. I was wandering around late at night, no problem.
- The average toilet is a ceramic hole in the floor that kind of flushes and no toilet paper. I would get nervous if I needed to go and there was no western bathroom nearby. It could be pretty embarassing if you didn't know how to use it and there was no1 and no2 all over the place and on your hand. (Hope you understand what I'm saying.
- Stay at the Simorgh Hotel in downtown Tehran. It's right on Val-e-asr Avenue which is wonderful and cosmopolitan. The heart of the city.
- Bring a lots of US$ and swap it out for Rials. I did it at the hotel (see line above). ATMs don't work so you have to do this. Don't plan on any wire transfers or other means of getting money.
- People are incredibly friendly. They love foreigners. You're like a celebrity. You will be invited to many people's houses - my advice - go. You'll see the real Iran this way.
- Everyone hates the government.
- Some women won't shake hands. Some do. What you need to do is keep your hand ready and watch if the girl starts lifting her's then lift your's. This way you won't be left hanging.
- Learn the numbers so you can read prices. I couldn't.
- Bring a paper map.
- Despite what other people wrote, the Iranian security forces will actually treat you nicer if they realise you are a foreigner. Twice they passed me through security without checking me and immediately took my bags off the scanner. They're less likely to bother you. They are very conscious of their international image and want you to have a good impression.
- If you look a bit Iranian however expect a thorough body search. And I mean thorough. They do it to everyone though.
- Guys can't wear shorts. Girls must wear a scarf and a long top that covers the hips. They do this poorly, deliberately.
- You can hang out with girls alone. The locals won't stone you.

That's enough for now.

(Sorry if I offended
I am originally from Iran and have been back to visit my parents many times, I agree with all these comments 100% and couldn't have said them myself any better.
I have to also add, be careful about the drinking water. If possible boil the water before drinking.
hazlitt777
Posts: 1033
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:10 am
Location: Wisconsin

Re: trip to iran, suggestions?

Post by hazlitt777 »

Sylvester the Investor wrote:I have been to Iran for work. I was there for a month or so a couple of years ago.

(I am in a rush so I'll write this quickly)

Thoughts:
- The traffic is unbelievably awful. This is the number one most dangerous terrible thing you will run into constantly. India / China / Latin America are better than Iran at driving. Iranians have no lane discipline whatsoever. 4 lanes = 7 cars. To cross the road you must step out in front of the traffic and it stops. It is terrifying. You'll need to do it first with a local before you'll get the hang of it.
- Tehran is safe. I was wandering around late at night, no problem.
- The average toilet is a ceramic hole in the floor that kind of flushes and no toilet paper. I would get nervous if I needed to go and there was no western bathroom nearby. It could be pretty embarassing if you didn't know how to use it and there was no1 and no2 all over the place and on your hand. (Hope you understand what I'm saying.
- Stay at the Simorgh Hotel in downtown Tehran. It's right on Val-e-asr Avenue which is wonderful and cosmopolitan. The heart of the city.
- Bring a lots of US$ and swap it out for Rials. I did it at the hotel (see line above). ATMs don't work so you have to do this. Don't plan on any wire transfers or other means of getting money.
- People are incredibly friendly. They love foreigners. You're like a celebrity. You will be invited to many people's houses - my advice - go. You'll see the real Iran this way.
- Everyone hates the government.
- Some women won't shake hands. Some do. What you need to do is keep your hand ready and watch if the girl starts lifting her's then lift your's. This way you won't be left hanging.
- Learn the numbers so you can read prices. I couldn't.
- Bring a paper map.
- Despite what other people wrote, the Iranian security forces will actually treat you nicer if they realise you are a foreigner. Twice they passed me through security without checking me and immediately took my bags off the scanner. They're less likely to bother you. They are very conscious of their international image and want you to have a good impression.
- If you look a bit Iranian however expect a thorough body search. And I mean thorough. They do it to everyone though.
- Guys can't wear shorts. Girls must wear a scarf and a long top that covers the hips. They do this poorly, deliberately.
- You can hang out with girls alone. The locals won't stone you.

That's enough for now.

(Sorry if I offended
I've heard much the same about the people and their relationship with their government. I hope to visit someday myself.
Valuethinker
Posts: 49027
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: trip to iran, suggestions?

Post by Valuethinker »

likegarden wrote:I did not go to Iran. Though in 1962 I spent 3 months in Turkey and ate food from street vendors, drank water from the hotel faucet and contracted hepatitis which set me back 1/2 year in college then. Be careful what you eat and drink, only bottled water.
Very good point.

Hepatitis A and B shots. The latter you only technically need if you are 'at risk' (eg needles etc.) but far better safe than sorry.
Valuethinker
Posts: 49027
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: trip to iran, suggestions?

Post by Valuethinker »

wilpat wrote:I would think twice about going this year.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013 ... chief?lite
OK a bit of geopolitics. You are way off base here.

The Iranians are Shiites not Sunnis. AQ is a Sunni movement.

Sunnis split with Shias in the time of the grandson of Mohammed, and they have been in conflict ever since. Shias are very much a minority, the Shias are concentrated in Syria (the ruling class), Iraq (the majority), Bahrein (the oppressed majority), eastern Saudi Arabia (oppressed minority) and scattered bits in other countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan. The only Shia ruled country is Iran (and now Iraq). Iran sees its mission to protect all Shia and has close alliances with Hizbollah (Shia in south Lebanon) and the Alawites (Syrian government).

AQ hates the Shias more than it hates the US or Israel. Heretics are worse than unbelievers. Hence the ferocity of the AQ affiliates in the Syrian civil war (the ruling family are Alawites, a heretical Shia sect, but the majority of Syrian moslems are Sunnis; Iraq, btw, is the reverse, Saddam Hussein was a *Sunni* part of a minority which ruled over a Shia majority).

The *safest* place in the world from an AQ attack is a Shia state with a 2000 year old tradition of secret police and intelligence. The Iranian intelligence service and its special forces (Qod Force) are second only to the Israelis in the Middle East in capability and reach.

What is important in Iran is a new president, who is a moderate by Iranian standards, and saying relatively positive things both in negotiating with the west and in terms of internal restrictions.

Iranians are not Arabs. It is not a tribal society. This is a fiercely patriotic nation, even by people who hate the regime. The language is European (or rather Farsi, like European languages, is proto Indo Aryan in origin). The culture and the nation are over 2000 years old-- they gave the Romans real headaches. Iranian women have the highest literacy rate in the Middle East-- over 90%. The country is highly sophisticated technologically, militarily, as a commercial culture, and artistically and culturally. If you talk to Israeli military people they do not really fear the Arabs *but* they do fear Iran, Iranian intelligence and its partner (Lebanese Arab Shia) Hizbollah.

Let me give you an example. In 1979 the Iranians took delivery of 80 US F14 Navy Tomcat fighters. Then the Revolution happened, since then it has been illegal to ship parts to the Iranians. Yet within the last 7 years there were reports of a squadron of F14s still flying (10-14 aircraft) on US radar scopes. 30 year old fighter planes the US Navy has phased out, but at the time the most sophisticated in the world. And the Iranians keep them flying without access to official spare parts. When the US was running drones over Iranian installations there was an interview with an Iranian air force general 'we all trained at Colorado Springs, we know the drill, they want us to turn our radars on so they can locate them'. (Pravda had reported UFOs over Iran, which eventually turned out to be US drones).

A read of the Satrapi graphic novel (there was also a movie) 'Persepolis' is warranted. It makes a nice bookend with 'Argo' in fact.
Last edited by Valuethinker on Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Valuethinker
Posts: 49027
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: trip to iran, suggestions?

Post by Valuethinker »

hoopy wrote:I backpacked through much of Iran for a few weeks, back in 2009. I stayed in relatively low-budget places, some of whose clientele were comprised largely of other western backpackers, and some of which were for locals.

I found pretty much all of Iran safe. I met a few women at the hostels and hotels who were also backpacking by themselves, and they largely reported feeling quite safe too.

The biggest takeaway from my visit was that you have to differentiate between the government and the people. Sure the government might be an international pariah, but person-to-person interactions with Iranis were mostly warm and friendly.

Your itinerary looks good. In addition to the three cities you list as must-sees (Tehran, Shiraz, and Esfahan), I would definitely try and add Yazd.

One of the most enjoyable things I did in Tehran was visit the Bank of Iran's vault, where they keep all of the Shah's treasures, his throne, etc. It was a veritable Alladin's cave. Plates with piles of jewels on them, jewel encrusted stuff, that kind of thing. The highlight was a large globe, depicting the earth, made of solid gold, with encrusted emeralds for the ocean and rubies for the land. It was only open twice a week when I was there, on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and for only two hours per day.
Yazd. Thank you, that was the one. Persepolis and Yazd.

The Zoroastrian faith, although persecuted, is one of the key origins of the Christian religion in terms of cross fertilization of ideas (partly to undermine the Orthodox Byzantines, the Zoroastrian Persian rulers allowed Christian heretics to practice and philosophize in Persia).

In visiting Iran one is visiting one of the world's oldest civilizations and civilized countries. Whatever the depredations of recent politics and ructions, that persists.

Just don't mention the Roman Emperor Heraclius ;-).
Topic Author
arandomdude84
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:57 am

Re: trip to iran, suggestions?

Post by arandomdude84 »

So, for anyone who was wondering: Best trip of my life by a huge margin. Cannot wait to return to Iran and I hope to stay for months next time instead of weeks.

Entering Iran was no problem, took maybe 20 seconds, got a smile and a wink. Entering the US was a huge pain; was detained for about 2 hours and thoroughly questioned by several vacuous border guards. Given that, it was still completely worth it.

Also to everyone who suggested the hotel rooms would be bugged: no chance whatsoever.

I highly recommend a trip to Iran for anyone interested in amazing architecture, unbelievable kebab, and friendly people with kind hearts.
WHL
Posts: 789
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:22 pm

Re: trip to iran, suggestions?

Post by WHL »

arandomdude84 wrote:So, for anyone who was wondering: Best trip of my life by a huge margin. Cannot wait to return to Iran and I hope to stay for months next time instead of weeks.

Entering Iran was no problem, took maybe 20 seconds, got a smile and a wink. Entering the US was a huge pain; was detained for about 2 hours and thoroughly questioned by several vacuous border guards. Given that, it was still completely worth it.

Also to everyone who suggested the hotel rooms would be bugged: no chance whatsoever.

I highly recommend a trip to Iran for anyone interested in amazing architecture, unbelievable kebab, and friendly people with kind hearts.
Pictures? Link to Blog? something?!?
Post Reply