Used car price guides - Edmunds, NADA and Kelly Blue Book

Questions on how we spend our money and our time - consumer goods and services, home and vehicle, leisure and recreational activities

Used car price guides - Edmunds, NADA and Kelly Blue Book

Postby MnD » Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:49 am

What do you use for private party transactions?

My understanding is that Kelly Blue Book (KBB) uses front row (best cars) asking price from used car dealerships as their base input, and then reduce that number somewhat for private party sale. So obviously they are biased very high on both retail and private party sale price.

Edmunds uses actual sale prices from county registration records. This includes some "sweetheart deals" to friends and family, and buyer-sellers writing up the bill of sale for less than the actual sale price was to pay less sales tax - so biased low.

NADA uses actual sale price and actual trade-in price from dealerships so is unbiased.It's telling that banks and credit unions use NADA when making loan amount decisions. They don't have a private party sale price in their free on-line guide but one can be estimated as the midway point between their trade-in and retail price.

At the depth of the great recession I was able to buy an excellent used car at under Edmunds private party sale price, but have had no luck lately.
Sellers run away screaming and don't even counteroffer when offered Edmunds private party.
I'm thinking about using NADA mid-point as the highest I'll go. Thoughts?
MnD
 
Posts: 2113
Joined: 14 Jan 2008

Re: Used car price guides - Edmunds, NADA and Kelly Blue Boo

Postby Spirit Rider » Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:51 pm

You are on the right track. Using a securities analogy, consider KBB the "ask" and Edmunds the "bid" with NADA as the dealer sanity check.

Private party sales are in a disrupted market right now. There are several reasons for this. There are the delusional sellers. There are the many, many pseudo dealers buying and quickly flipping cars off of craigslist, which drives the prices up. The very low new car sales during the recession.

There is some indication that after a period of increasing new car sales there is downward pressure on the very tight used car market. It may take a few more years settle out.

In the mean time you still have sellers thinking KBB is the absolute minimum they should accept. Unfortunately, they sell to some idiot who doesn't know better perpetuating the increased prices. After all, the "value" of something is what some fool is willing to pay for it.

You just have to use your own judgment and pay what you think is a fair price. Also, don't be afraid to look at used car dealers. Even though traditionally you would get a better deal private party. I have seen friends get decent prices in the $5K - $8K market from dealers. They don't have the emotional attachment and old perceptions. So if there is price pressure the dealers will see far faster than the individual with an emotional attachment to the value of their car.
Spirit Rider
 
Posts: 1038
Joined: 2 Mar 2007

Re: Used car price guides - Edmunds, NADA and Kelly Blue Boo

Postby deanbrew » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:24 pm

Agree with the above post. You just need to remember that these pricing guides are just that - guides. They do not "set" values, but are useful data, nonetheless. FWIW, I find that KBB almost always seems too high. Edmunds and NADA have been more realistic when I've looked.
"The course of history shows that as the government grows, liberty decreases." Thomas Jefferson
User avatar
deanbrew
 
Posts: 644
Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Location: The Keystone State

Re: Used car price guides - Edmunds, NADA and Kelly Blue Boo

Postby Barefootgirl » Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:23 pm

This thread is timely for me since I am putting my used car on the market this week and pricing benchmarks are all over the place.

CarMax offer: $8,500

Edmunds Private: $11,700

Kelly BB Private: $14,700

NADA Trade In: $13,000

NADA Retail: $14,700


To me, this seems to be a large spread.... not sure what this means?

BFG
Barefootgirl
 
Posts: 776
Joined: 6 Oct 2009

Re: Used car price guides - Edmunds, NADA and Kelly Blue Boo

Postby deanbrew » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:35 pm

BFG, doesn't Edmunds provide a trade-in value estimate, too? CarMax is obviously paying a wholesale / trade-in price, as they will then turn around and sell the car. So, if you are comparing CarMax to anything, you have to compare it to a trade-in figure. Trade-in will be less than private sale, which will in turn be less than dealer retail. Dealers want to make about $3k on a used car, so my guess is that CarMax would pay you $8,500, allow another $1,000 detailing the car and fixing anything that's not up to snuff, and then market the car at $12,500 or so.

Your figures don't seem to mesh very well. NADA is only showing a $1,700 difference between trade-in and retail? Very unlikely.
"The course of history shows that as the government grows, liberty decreases." Thomas Jefferson
User avatar
deanbrew
 
Posts: 644
Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Location: The Keystone State

Re: Used car price guides - Edmunds, NADA and Kelly Blue Boo

Postby Barefootgirl » Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:48 pm

Hi Dean,

Yes, I realize the CarMax number is a throw away number, I just mentioned it for reference.

The other three numbers are real and are out of whack - the reason for my post.

I am going to see if I can get a friend in the biz to run a Manheim report.

Thanks, BFG
Barefootgirl
 
Posts: 776
Joined: 6 Oct 2009

Re: Used car price guides - Edmunds, NADA and Kelly Blue Boo

Postby Barefootgirl » Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:49 pm

Yes, the numbers are real.

The Edmunds trade in value is : $10,300.

BFG
Barefootgirl
 
Posts: 776
Joined: 6 Oct 2009

Re: Used car price guides - Edmunds, NADA and Kelly Blue Boo

Postby deanbrew » Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:20 pm

BFG, I agree it can be difficult to nail down a reasonable selling number, be it trade-in at a dealer or a private sale figure. The Manheim number will give you auction values, which should be lower than even trade-in, I would think.


Have you searched cars.com, autotrader.com and truecar.com for highly similar cars (similar age, mileage, trim level, options, etc.) currently for sale in your geographical area? I had typed in vehix.com, but I see it is no longer in operation. That can help narrow things down. You won't get final sale prices, but can see what people and dealers are currently asking.
"The course of history shows that as the government grows, liberty decreases." Thomas Jefferson
User avatar
deanbrew
 
Posts: 644
Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Location: The Keystone State

Re: Used car price guides - Edmunds, NADA and Kelly Blue Boo

Postby Barefootgirl » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:11 pm

Hi there, I have found similar vehicles, but with much higher mileage and way fewer options...I am afraid I purchased the "most expensive house in a mediocre neighborhood" and then pampered it a bit too much.

My friend advises to go mid way between Manheim and KBB...need to look into that.

Thanks, BFG
Barefootgirl
 
Posts: 776
Joined: 6 Oct 2009

Re: Used car price guides - Edmunds, NADA and Kelly Blue Boo

Postby cestan » Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:09 am

anyway us non-insiders can get the manheim auction sales data?
cestan
 
Posts: 43
Joined: 19 Aug 2007

Re: Used car price guides - Edmunds, NADA and Kelly Blue Boo

Postby jlawrence01 » Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:33 pm

cestan wrote:anyway us non-insiders can get the manheim auction sales data?


Technically, NO. About the best you can do is to buy the Black Book which is a resource that is used by a lot of fleet managers. The last time that I had a subscription, it was $60/year.

Having said that, the used car market at the auction is supply and demand. When I sent cars to the auction from my fleet, it is always a crap shoot as to what you would get. If I had a domestic vehicle, especially Chrysler, I would send them to Milwaukee as they would do better there than in Chicago. Chicago was really pretty good for luxury vehicles, especially Lexus.

Selling a car to Carmax is like selling your house to one of those "We pay cash for houses" people. They do a very cursory look at the car to ensure that there is no engine or transmission problems and offer you about 75% of wholesale price (auction). I have had a lot better luck with selling cars to dealers for cash.
jlawrence01
 
Posts: 340
Joined: 25 Feb 2013
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: Used car price guides - Edmunds, NADA and Kelly Blue Boo

Postby Barefootgirl » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:21 am

Private party sales are in a disrupted market right now. There are several reasons for this. There are the delusional sellers. There are the many, many pseudo dealers buying and quickly flipping cars off of craigslist, which drives the prices up. The very low new car sales during the recession.

I have a used car for sale right now, so I am hoping to better understand your point here. I believe it's priced right based on all the input I have gotten, not only from the public databases, but I have a brother who does this for a living (although he's in another state) and he helped me set a fair price right where it should sell. Who are these pseudo dealers and how are they doing it? My car is a 2008, which if I understand you correctly, should put it in demand since there were fewer new cars bought in that timeframe?

Also...I have it on autrotrader.com. If you are aware of equally popular sites, please advise.

Thank you so much, BFG
Barefootgirl
 
Posts: 776
Joined: 6 Oct 2009

Re: Used car price guides - Edmunds, NADA and Kelly Blue Boo

Postby Spirit Rider » Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:14 am

Barefootgirl wrote:Private party sales are in a disrupted market right now. There are several reasons for this. There are the delusional sellers. There are the many, many pseudo dealers buying and quickly flipping cars off of craigslist, which drives the prices up. The very low new car sales during the recession.

I have a used car for sale right now, so I am hoping to better understand your point here. I believe it's priced right based on all the input I have gotten, not only from the public databases, but I have a brother who does this for a living (although he's in another state) and he helped me set a fair price right where it should sell. Who are these pseudo dealers and how are they doing it? My car is a 2008, which if I understand you correctly, should put it in demand since there were fewer new cars bought in that timeframe?

Also...I have it on autrotrader.com. If you are aware of equally popular sites, please advise.

Thank you so much, BFG

It sounds like you have priced it reasonable, it is a good idea to have some room to negotiate. It is psychological, people like to think they saved themselves some money. I do not think you should have any problem selling a 2008. Just like marketable securities, all these issues have already factored into the street price. Autotrader is good place for cars in your model year. Craigslist is a bigger market, but comes with its own set of challenges. Regardless of where you list it, there is always the possibility of lowball offers, rude people, etc... It might be a good idea to have your brother involved in any transactions.

The pseudo "dealers" are a side effect of the economy. They are people who are either doing it as a side job to supplement income or have lost their job and need money coming in. They typically troll craigslist and will pounce on any listing as soon as it happens, especially if it seems priced to sell. They will want the best price they can get, but are really looking for something they can resell quickly with a fairly small margin.

They are not licensed dealers, just individuals reselling cars. A typical request from them is that you do a bill of sale for the car, but only sign the title and not enter the buyers name. This allows them to fill in the buyers name for their eventual resale. This is because many states automatically require you to become a licensed dealer once you have exceeded a certain number of title transactions per year.

I personally do not know what if any legal downside there is to the seller for not themselves entering the buyers name.
Spirit Rider
 
Posts: 1038
Joined: 2 Mar 2007


Return to Personal Consumer Issues

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: heartwood, LifeIsGood, stemikger and 20 guests