Europe Travel from paris initial start, help

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LH
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Europe Travel from paris initial start, help

Post by LH »

family with 2 kids 10, 11 (great travelers).

Starting in Paris for a day (have been once already so not interested in staying there beyond first day)

The leaving CDG airport hotel for.......

Brussels, then Amsterdam, then Germany somewhere, then back to Paris....

Or something roughly like that. 10 day trip.

Travelling by train... (or should I rent a car? But plan to stay in the big cities, so thought train.)

Any suggestions very much appreciated. If you think a stop in luxemborg, or whatever, its all good. very open to suggestions. have no clue about germany.

The only thing fixed so far is the initial day in Paris, then leaving Paris the next day, then train to Brussels (EDIT)


Thanks.


EDIT:
day 1 paris
day 2 Brussels
day 3 Brussels (brugge)
day 4 Amsterdam
day 5 Amsterdam
day 6 To GERMANY somewhere.......5 days. then back to Paris/fly home.
Last edited by LH on Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
WHL
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Re: Europe Travel from paris initial start, help

Post by WHL »

There's a big thread in this forum already about travel to Europe (Germany). Check it out; it has a lot of good information.

I personally would drive, but I love driving, and I always end up finding amazing things and places that would be completely missed if I was sitting on a train or airplane.
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22twain
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Re: Europe Travel from paris initial start, help

Post by 22twain »

From Amsterdam, you could head down the Rhine to Frankfurt, then over to Paris. Stop for sightseeing in one or two of Cologne, Bonn, and Mainz. Take a cruise on the Rhine. The best scenery is between Koblenz and Wiesbaden or Mainz.

If you're going by train, you can easily transfer between train and boat in the smaller towns. As an example, when my wife and I were visiting a friend in Wiesbaden a few years ago, we did the following day trip: local train from Wiesbaden to Rüdesheim, just a few miles away; spent the morning walking around Rüdesheim and riding a cable car up into the hills for a nice view of the river; ate lunch; then a boat from Rüdesheim north to St. Goar; had an afternoon coffee and pastry there; finally, rode a train back south to Mainz and across to Wiesbaden.

Cologne has the famous cathedral next to the train station, and a museum of Roman artifacts. Bonn has the Beethoven house and a museum of postwar German history. Mainz has the Gutenberg museum (history of printing and of course a Gutenberg bible) and a maritime museum.
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LH
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Re: Europe Travel from paris initial start, help

Post by LH »

day 1 paris
day 2 Brussels
day 3 Brussels (brugge)
day 4 Amsterdam
day 5 Amsterdam
day 6 To GERMANY somewhere........
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Noobvestor
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Re: Europe Travel from paris initial start, help

Post by Noobvestor »

LH wrote:day 1 paris
day 2 Brussels
day 3 Brussels (brugge)
day 4 Amsterdam
day 5 Amsterdam
day 6 To GERMANY somewhere........
Berlin is a must-see city - shoot over there from Amsterdam by train. There is a lot to see in southern Germany too - historical Rothenburg ob dem Tauber (sp?), the best-preserved walled town, not to mention Nurnburg, Bayreuth (small, lovely old town, hill up behind with a tower you can see everything from and the FestSpielHouse where they do Wagner every year) and of course Muenchen, but that might wrap you too far away for an easy return, so ... Berlin at least, maybe some of the river as other suggested. Bonus: Berlin lets you see some of old East Germany too, though the distinction has faded over time. Can also wrap back up through Grenoble or some other part of southern France, which will be different from Paris by a lot.
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Re: Europe Travel from paris initial start, help

Post by carolc »

Suggest flying 'open jaw' so you don't need to backtrack. That's what I do in Europe and it hasn't been more expensive.

carolc
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Re: Europe Travel from paris initial start, help

Post by Wolkenspiel »

carolc wrote:Suggest flying 'open jaw' so you don't need to backtrack. That's what I do in Europe and it hasn't been more expensive.
+1. It makes no sense to spend 1/2 a day or more traveling back to a city you don't want to see in any case.

If you're interested in cities, Berlin is definitely the place to visit in Germany. Starting in Paris and flying back from Berlin, Frankfurt or Munich might be a good idea. I've done similar itineraries in the past (e.g. Frankfurt/Brussels/Bruges/Amsterdam/Cologne on a 4-day weekend by car), but knowing that it will be no big deal revisiting any of the places as we spend a lot of time in Europe every year. Brussels is nice, but a little bit boring compared to Paris/Amsterdam/Berlin; Bruges is amazing but very touristy at least in the summer. I'll probably go back to Amsterdam some time, and will definitely spend more time (weeks) in Berlin at some point. If you really like to plan ahead, one can do amazingly cheap city hopping in Europe using e.g. easyjet, if one can commit to the exact dates sufficiently well in advance. With wife and two kids, I usually find the flexibility of a rental car preferable. Cars are not particularly useful in any of the cities mentioned, but parking is much cheaper in Europe than in most big US cities (i.e. no $16 for the first 1/2 hour, more like 1-2 Euro per hour in most places) and it doesn't tie you to a fixed train/plain schedule for traveling between cities (*edit: there may be some interference between the suggestion to use an open-jaw ticket and the rental car... "one-way" rentals within e.g. Germany should be no big deal, but a France-Germany one way rental may be harder to organize cheaply).
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Re: Europe Travel from paris initial start, help

Post by XtremeSki2001 »

I really enjoyed Berlin, Heidelberg, Munich, and Dusseldorf (in that order)
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Re: Europe Travel from paris initial start, help

Post by jebmke »

You are flying in and out of a city you don't intend to visit. I'd be inclined to fly via Amsterdam and skip Brussels. Brussels is OK but nothing special. I lived there for almost 4 years. Bruges is very touristy. We liked Ghent better in terms of smaller towns to take visitors to.

If you plan to stay in cities, skip the car. It will be a liability in most cities.
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Re: Europe Travel from paris initial start, help

Post by LH »

Paris is the only direct flight to europe, and we are flying standby. We may end up flying back from Dusseldorf, as that flight is open to atlanta currently, but then one runs into getting hung up in atlanta, the connecting flight to hometown being wide open, then suddenly closing shut within a half hour, etc. etc. A simple train ride to paris, then direct flight home, may be more time efficient.

Reading above, currently thinking of going Amsterdam to Berlin.

Maybe 3 days in Berlin.

Then perhaps wanting to get back to Dusseldorf for flight home (no Berlin flight by Delta) to go home. (Frankfort looks a bit iffy, Dusseldorf is a "sure" thing first class). Versus train ride back to Paris, and then home that way.

So one (two?) stop in between Berlin and Dusseldorf...... Maybe hit the Rhine and some castles?



hmmmm....


Amsterdam to Berlin train hbf is from 0900 to 1612 clearly I need to figure out an express or something. Or maybe fly?
Last edited by LH on Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MathWizard
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Re: Europe Travel from paris initial start, help

Post by MathWizard »

Back a few months from France.

Take high speed rail, at least Paris to Brussels. You will waste a lot of time with a car. You can also bring you own lunch/dinner
to eat on the train, so you save there. First class was not much of an upcharge for my wife and I, so she even slept in her seat
after a long day of site-seeing and arrived feeling better. I stayed awake to make sure we were safe.

Maybe get an overnight sleeper car for some nights, that will save on hotel, and especially time. They are small, but my brother did that with his wife an 13 year old son, you'd have to check if you have enough space for two kids.
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Re: Europe Travel from paris initial start, help

Post by LH »

Noobvestor wrote:
Berlin is a must-see city - shoot over there from Amsterdam by train.

I looked up a train it was 9am to 4 pm, amsterdam to Berlin, are there faster trains than this?

Maybe fly, if the prices are comparable....

Maybe should see if Hanover is worth stopping over in for a day to break it up some, as the train stops there.
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Re: Europe Travel from paris initial start, help

Post by LH »

WHL wrote:There's a big thread in this forum already about travel to Europe (Germany). Check it out; it has a lot of good information.
Can you or someone give a link to the german thread?

thanks,

lh
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Re: Europe Travel from paris initial start, help

Post by btraven »

Here's a recommendation for an inexpensive but nice hotel in Berlin. It is outside of the city center, but right on a good street car route. BusinessHotel in Pankow http://www.booking.com/hotel/de/bhberli ... QgodFDcAjg. I would recommend an English language walking tour of Berlin -- there is so much history there, you will miss a lot otherwise. These tours are generally inexpensive and conducted by English-speaking students studying in Berlin. Most hotels will have fliers for the tours. The Gestapo Museum (which is a memorial to Nazi victims and has a large section of Berlin Wall) and the Pergamon Museum are highlights.

Also, consider Clervaux in Luxembourg. It is a small town with a nice castle and The Family of Man, a famous exhibit of photos collected by Edward Steichen, is on permanent display in Clervaux Castle.
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Re: Europe Travel from paris initial start, help

Post by madbrain »

You are going to far too many places in way too short of a time.
You will be in the airplane/train most of the time, leaving you very little time to actually see things.
A vacation is not a race. Did you made some kind of bet to go to as many places as possible in as short of a time as possible ?
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Noobvestor
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Re: Europe Travel from paris initial start, help

Post by Noobvestor »

madbrain wrote:You are going to far too many places in way too short of a time.
You will be in the airplane/train most of the time, leaving you very little time to actually see things.
A vacation is not a race. Did you made some kind of bet to go to as many places as possible in as short of a time as possible ?
Not necessarily too many places, IMO. Cross-country travel in Europe is far more packed and visually interesting than in most of the United States (particularly if it's new territory), so the in-between aspect can be a pleasure in itself, plus you can take overnight trains/buses in some cases which is a nice way to double up your sleeping with your traveling when you do - I did Paris-Berlin on a bus and slept most of the way (super cheap!), but of course a sleeper cabin on a train will be more comfortable.

Google produced: http://www.seat61.com/citynightline.htm#.UencX43VCzk

Sure, you might not have a ton of time in each city, but this kind of trip can also help you sort out where you may want to revisit for longer periods. In the end, it depends on your reason for the trip, your personality, and other factors, but 1 to 2 days per city can work. Just my two cents.
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Re: Europe Travel from paris initial start, help

Post by 3504PIR »

What type of hotel do you stay at? I think that matters with a place like Berlin.

Also, more often than not, in most of Germany and Europe in general there is a max occupancy of 3 in a hotel room.
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Re: Europe Travel from paris initial start, help

Post by BigMrRitz »

I've been to most of the places you are visiting. A few things:
1. Try to fit in a day and go to Normandy. IMO, one of the best places to visit in all of Europe if you like WW2 history.
2. Rent a car in Paris and go around the Arc de Triomphe a few times (make sure you get the insurance).
3. One day in Paris isn't enough. There's a ton to see. Trip to Palace of Versailles, Louvre, Eiffel Tower, etc
4. I liked Bruges much better than Brussels.
5. Anne Frank house in Amsterdam.


I'd rent a car if I were you.
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Re: Europe Travel from paris initial start, help

Post by centrifuge41 »

Agree, go to Bruges while in Belgium.

I've been to Amsterdam before. For a short trip like yours, 2 days might be too much. If you're doing 2 days, then you'll want to visit Anne Frank haus, Rijksmuseum, and Van Gogh museum. If you don't have interest in these 3 items, then 1.5 days or even 1 day might be sufficient. City is pretty compact and it's easy to walk around the old center and the canal ring.

Haven't been to Germany, so I can't say much about it. However, I have heard opposing views from some people who feel that Berlin is kind of grey and gloomy, and that they much prefer visiting other German cities.
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Re: Europe Travel from paris initial start, help

Post by unamas »

LH wrote:day 1 paris
day 2 Brussels
day 3 Brussels (brugge)
.
Skip Brussels and stay in Brugge.
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Re: Europe Travel from paris initial start, help

Post by XtremeSki2001 »

LH wrote:Paris is the only direct flight to europe, and we are flying standby. We may end up flying back from Dusseldorf, as that flight is open to atlanta currently, but then one runs into getting hung up in atlanta, the connecting flight to hometown being wide open, then suddenly closing shut within a half hour, etc. etc. A simple train ride to paris, then direct flight home, may be more time efficient.

Reading above, currently thinking of going Amsterdam to Berlin.

Maybe 3 days in Berlin.

Then perhaps wanting to get back to Dusseldorf for flight home (no Berlin flight by Delta) to go home. (Frankfort looks a bit iffy, Dusseldorf is a "sure" thing first class). Versus train ride back to Paris, and then home that way.

So one (two?) stop in between Berlin and Dusseldorf...... Maybe hit the Rhine and some castles?

hmmmm....

Amsterdam to Berlin train hbf is from 0900 to 1612 clearly I need to figure out an express or something. Or maybe fly?
This might be the Germany thread others reference (started by me a year or two ago) - http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtop ... y#p1319009

FWIW, as a frequent traveler, getting caught in ATL is'nt nearly as common as most people think. Especially if you give yourself a bit of connection time. There are direct flights to Berlin from ATL and this would reduce the amount of time you send on a train from Brussels / Amsterdamn. You could do something like this: ATL -> Berlin, 3 or 4 days in Berlin, take the ICE train from Berlin to Dusseldorf (5 hours), 2 days in Dusseldorf (can also take a quick train to see Cologne), take ICE from Dusseldorf to Amsterdamn (2.5 hours), 2 days in Amsterdamn, take ICE (or another train) to Brussels (2 hours), 2 days in Brussels. You could take a flight from Brussels direct back to ATL.

Personally if it was me, I would spend all 10 days in Germany. I've been there twice for a total of 5 weeks and still want to go back and see more. It's a beautiful country and I found the language easy to pick up. You could check out Heidelberg, Munich, Frankford, etc. If you're looking for a day or two in another city close by you could go to Innsbruck, Austria (2 hours from Munich by ICE), Strasbourg, France (1.5 hours from Heidelberg by ICE), Zurich, Switzerland (4 hours from Heidelberg by ICE), Prague, Czech (5 hours from Berlin via ICE).

You have many options. I found driving in Germany to be easy, but most times I didn't need a vehicle in the larger cities (smaller cities like Heidelberg you can walk). Unfortunately, not all the trains in Germany/Europe are the blazing fast trains. From Dusseldorf to Berlin you'll get up to 300km a few times for brief periods of time, whereas others, like Frankfurt to Paris, you'll go 300km for quite a while.

Good luck.

EDIT: Here's the train website http://www.b-europe.com/Travel
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Re: Europe Travel from paris initial start, help

Post by henry A »

Bruges! ( AKA Brugge, Brügge) I agree that you should absolutely visit somewhere between Brussels and Amsterdam. And, honestly, I also was not that impressed with Brussels. Go see the UN, Grand Palace and walk the streets for a bit. You could be done there in a day. I would also suggest staying in Bruges.

Here is a link to the wiki.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruges

One of my favorite places in all of europe!
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Re: Europe Travel from paris initial start, help

Post by chaz »

I did a cruise on the Rhine and saw some castles - very nice.
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